crime

Japanese men take out 'groper insurance' against false accusations

61 Comments
By Kazuhiro Nogi

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22 months in prison should be 22 years in a sex offenders facility.

-39 ( +0 / -39 )

But we're talking about those falsely accused, so he didn't deserve any of that. How can he be compensated for those 22 months, all because some girl had it in for him for one reason or another?

28 ( +28 / -0 )

Japan has made efforts to tackle the problem of rush-hour sex pests with posters on trains and television campaigns, while railway operators provide women-only carriages for the busiest times of day.

Actually women only carriages should be increased. The average train has about 1 carriage that is for women only. Its not enough. Also, there should be a couple of men only trains as well, so that men can also be protected against false claims. Say 1/3 of the carriages women only, 1/3 men only, and the remaining can be coed. But the carriages have to remain that way permanently. Not Just during rush hour.  There also needs needs to be an increase in the number of carriages per train. People should not be crammed like sardines. That's part of the problem which gets little to no attention.

-4 ( +13 / -17 )

I would like to know the statistics for men claiming false accusations which turned out to actually be false.

People always shriek "False accusations!" when the topic of sexual assault on transport comes up, but it would of course be useful to know how often this occurs. Running away does not prove innocence.

in 2006 a professor at the National Defense Medical College appealed his conviction all the way to the Supreme Court and had his conviction -- and 22-month prison sentence -- overturned.

Any more incidents within the last decade and more?

-12 ( +6 / -18 )

There ought to be Men Only cars on trains.

16 ( +20 / -4 )

People always shriek "False accusations!" when the topic of sexual assault on transport comes up

This article isn't about the topic of sexual assault on transport. "People" are "shrieking" about the topic of false accusations in a story about false accusations.

So if we're not supposed to "shriek" about false accusations in stories about sexual assault, and we're not supposed to "shriek" about false accusations in a story about false accusations, where are we supposed to bring this issue up? Or are you suggesting that men have no right to talk about this subject at all, since the victims of false accusations share a sex with the attackers that do the assaults.

15 ( +18 / -3 )

It's just sad there is a need for a service like this. Why can't these creeps just keep their hands to themselves?

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

Just asking for stats, Strangerland. I think that's reasonable. Too bad if you don't like my vocabulary.

-15 ( +3 / -18 )

No bickering, please.

The problem lies deeper than that. The fact that some police automatically take a woman's word for it without evidence or investigation is complete incompetency. How can I ever put my trust into the police?

20 ( +20 / -0 )

They just had an interesting story on the news for the past 10 minutes. We have heard stories of guys running down the tracks recently. Well, the other night on, I think they said the Odakyu line, the last train, a woman pushed the button to stop the train, and claimed some guy groped her. The guy denied it, and wouldn't leave the train. He said he had one hand holding the strap, and the other holding his phone reading it. Other people around him agreed they witnessed this. The train couldn't go because this guy refused to move. A few police came to the train, yet he still refused to move. People were angry (they wanted to go home), as mentioned, others were agreeing he didn't do anything.

A couple of additional points:

The reporters didn't know the final conclusion, whether he was arrested, or the train moved on, or what happened. They only knew that the train was stopped for 30 min.

At one point the police were at the door of the train, asking about the woman who had made the accusation, and she didn't appear to be anywhere to be found.

The lawyer they had in the studio gave the following advice:

Find witnesses and get their information

Loudly state that you didn't do it

Don't be vague in the in your comments.

Point out that there is no evidence at the scene. Point it out regularly.
21 ( +24 / -3 )

"It is impossible to know whether one will be caught up in a groping incident," company president Shoji Sugimoto told the Mainichi. "We are here to provide help to people who feel anxious about the issue."

Contracts for the policy, which hitherto totalled less than 50 a month, have soared to several hundred in the past month, the company said.

Victims are victims. Both sexes are entitled to protection. Men can now buy insurance coverage to help with the legal costs of defending themselves against false accusations.

13 ( +13 / -0 )

@Maria, have you ever stopped to consider that the reason men are so fearful of being falsely accused is because they are also victims of the 'patriarchy'?

Men and boys are constantly bombarded with messages that they must be strong, chivalrous and protectors of women. The reason most men are terrified of false accusations is because they know that if they are accused, the men who sit in judgement of them will feel tremendous pressure to side with the woman (just as they would if they were sitting in judgement of other men). Because even if it leads to some injustice, to do otherwise would risk being seen as a failure to protect women and thus a failure to be 'a real man' in the eyes of other men. I think every man will understand what I'm talking about.

15 ( +16 / -1 )

they had women only carriages in Osaka they were literally empty while the mixed sex carriages were full I seriously doubt the problem is as bad as what they claim.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

I think every man will understand what I'm talking about.

Look at the anger that my posts on the subject have created to see the truth of this. By not falling into line and repeating the mantra 'false accusations don't happen as much so it doesn't matter, and because gropers are male, male victims of false accusations don't matter", I've caused anger, and been labeled as a Male Rights something or other, and a conservative. Neither of which accurately describes me.

This topic is taboo for many people. They figure that simply because groping is such a heinous crime, the topic of false accusations does not even merit discussion.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

DDuel problem, false accusations from groups or people wanting to cash in and actual grippers.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

The lawyer they had in the studio gave the following advice:

Find witnesses and get their information

Loudly state that you didn't do it

Don't be vague in the in your comments.

Point out that there is no evidence at the scene. Point it out regularly.

notice the advice wasn't to jump onto the train tracks and run away? and furthemore, you'd have to be a complete fool to not have your hands near your chest on a crowded train. there is no plausible reason for a guy to have either hands below the waist. you're just asking for trouble or are a possible groper.

-13 ( +0 / -13 )

@maria

What unique about that 2006 case even it's more than one decade old case, the accused person, Prof Masahiro Nagura, maintained his innocence all those times. In absence of any witness or evidence this is a typical he said she said situations, in another country the accused person would be released with no times if there's no supporting evidence, but in Japan it will find a way to court and upper court afterward.

Here's an excerpt from lawyer that familiar with those cases:

“Women are social minorities. Authorities feel as though they are justified in protecting them by believing what the female victims report and keeping the alleged offender detained until he confesses, despite the fact that the victims often mistakenly identify their offender,” says Akiyama, 75. “It’s a delicate situation that we lawyers need to take care of.”

Please take a look:

http://www.jiadep.org/

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/07/30/national/social-issues/commuters-fight-back-groping/

12 ( +12 / -0 )

notice the advice wasn't to jump onto the train tracks and run away?

Seeing as I posted it, I think that just a tiny bit of logic would let you assume that I had.

furthemore, you'd have to be a complete fool to not have your hands near your chest on a crowded train. there is no plausible reason for a guy to have either hands below the waist. you're just asking for trouble or are a possible groper.

Ahh, guys carrying bags be warned, carrying a bag is not a plausible reason to have your hands below your waste. Make sure to carry your bag above your head.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

DDuel problem, false accusations from groups or people wanting to cash in and actual grippers.

There are also simply mistaken accusations. The woman making the accusation isn't intentionally spreading a falsehood, she just mistakenly identifies the wrong person as the groper. She is truthfully identifying the person she believes to be the groper, but the person she identifies isn't the one that did the actual groping.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

nakanoguy01 - there is no plausible reason for a guy to have either hands below the waist. you're just asking for trouble or are a possible groper.

"Possible"? "Possible groper"? Seriously?  Why stop with "groper"? Why not "possible pickpocket"? Or "possible drug dealer"? Or worse yet - "possible train passenger"? Oh the humanity!

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Men and boys are constantly bombarded with messages that they must be strong, chivalrous and protectors of women. 

Yes, a huge problem of sexism, that insists that men repress their emotions and fears. Men are mocked and humiliated if they report that they have been victims of sexual assault. Men hide their anxieties and mental instabilities, are not encouraged to ask for help, are forced to uphold this archaic idea of being the Protector. Sexual inequality and the oppression of women has negatively affected boys and men too.

So, are there any statistics of actual reported cases of false accusations against men? More than one reported case from 2006 and an anecdote with no source, I mean? Anything to suggest that this insurance has some merit beyond financial gain for the company issuing it. I am not questioning that there are false accusations, but I would like to know if there is any basis to support the company's fear-provoking claim that men need this insurance.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

The train operator should be responsible in placing more cctv in the train. This would reduce chances of false accusation and might detect terror activities earlier. The train operator should bear the cost for cramping people like sardines and maximising their profits.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

I would like to know if there is any basis to support the company's fear-provoking claim that men need this insurance.

That it happens at all is enough need for insurance. It's like car insurance. I know I'm a good driver, so I should never need it. But if it ever came to a time when I suddenly did need it, and didn't have it, I'd be screwed. Sort of like with false accusations. If you do everything right, you should never need it. But better to have it in such a case.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

That it happens at all is enough need for insurance

Absolutely. So you are for women-only carriages. Good to know. I wish you would tell the naysayers, who complain that somehow it is not fair to exclude all men from one carriage based on the crimes of a few.

That it happens at all, is reason enough.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

"But we're talking about those falsely accused,"

No. We are not. The headline says we are, but we are not talking about that at all. ANYONE can purchase this insurance, and you can bet that a good number of them are going to be stalking mashing perverts. Moral hazard virtually REQUIRES that the people who are likely to purchase this are people who believe that they might be accused, and a good number of them are going to be guilty as charged.

This is not an article about groping, or being falsely accused of groping. It is about being accused of groping, and someone selling insurance to cover the costs of a defense. So we need to avoid discussions of groping, testosterone, wider social issues, etc. Someone is offering a product, and people will buy it. The article should have more data so that we can judge the value of this insurance, the incidence of ALL accusations, the likely damage resulting from it, and the charges for mounting a defense, etc.

The discussion is hopelessly distracted. It should be in the business section. The accusations cost people money. The insurance protects people from financial harm.

And while we are at it, somebody might say something about getting up in front of a judge and explaining why you bought groping insurance when you are not a groper. That is going to look pretty bad. THAT discussion is missing too, but it hits closer to the mark of the core of this "news story" than anecdotes, misogyny, and all the rest.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@maria:

If there's such statistics I'm pretty interested to find out how they compiled it, especially in a place that anyone can be processed as guilty until proven innocent.

Once being accused that person's life is pretty much ruined (lost job, family disarray etc). Making a report or having publicized of their story is the least thing they can do in order to regain their life after they serve sentence. That's why this thing is still under reported. There's another case beside that 2006 case, you can try to see Koji Yatabe's case that end up in creation of a movie Soredemo Boku wa Yattenai based, so you can have an idea on how false accused people being processed.

The number subscriber of Shoji Sugimoto's service (痴漢冤罪保険) is self validating that lot people have concern that their well being ruined by false accusations, even in the absence of actual statistics. I'm pretty sure the number subscriber of this service will increase since now it has been covered by lot of news media. More people aware about existence of this service by now

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Cheaper to buy a pair of running shoes.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Absolutely. So you are for women-only carriages. Good to know. I wish you would tell the naysayers, who complain that somehow it is not fair to exclude all men from one carriage based on the crimes of a few.

For sure! I've been a strong proponent of them all along, and always state so. I understand the want for them, as I also want men-only carriages as an option.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

somebody might say something about getting up in front of a judge and explaining why you bought groping insurance when you are not a groper. That is going to look pretty bad.

Not really. The person simply needs to show a couple of examples of false accusations, and their fear becomes justified.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

lot people have concern that their well being ruined by false accusations, even in the absence of actual statistics. 

Just because a lot of people believe something, doesn't mean that it is true.

The Koji Yatebe case occurred in 2000. That is two well-reported cases in 17 years.

(That case is explained in this link:

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/07/30/national/social-issues/commuters-fight-back-groping/ )

Without statistics, or police reports of such incidents, why should anyone believe that this is a problem that they are likely to have? It is fear-mongering for no reason other than to discredit all future accusations of sexual assault on public transport. Though I like 5Speedracer5's take on it.

-10 ( +0 / -10 )

there is no plausible reason for a guy to have either hands below the waist. you're just asking for trouble or are a possible groper.

Are you telling us that the 'standard' standing posture is actually abnormal? Next we will get someone telling us there is no reason for a man not to have his hands above his head at all times and anyone who doesn't do so is suspicious.

PS: breasts are (for a vast majority of women, that is) above the waist and are therefore potentially 'gropeable' even if one keeps their hands above the waist as you suggest.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Here's things that could happen once someone being accused:

1.Make an apology to "victim" along with/without monetary compensation, so he can go on with his life.

This goes unreported as being false accused.

2.Not apoligizing but end up in forced confession and now being guilty.

This goes unreported as being false accused.

3.Commit suicide like Shinsuke Harada's cases.

This goes unreported as being false accused.

https://japantoday.com/category/features/kuchikomi/mother-of-falsely-accused-groper-who-killed-himself-wants-justice

4.Stand up to prove their innocent through exhausted that will take months or even years but still there's no guarantee they will win 

This probably goes reported as being false accused.

So in order being well reported as you wish, someone need to go to stand up facing all those exhausted times and got lucky enough to show his innocence.

As far I can recall the procedure on how they handle accused person haven't change, so does the particular law that handle this case. That's why even 17 years case still can be related to current one.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

"somebody might say something about getting up in front of a judge and explaining why you bought groping insurance when you are not a groper. That is going to look pretty bad.

Not really. The person simply needs to show a couple of examples of false accusations, and their fear becomes justified"

Haha. Then let me amend that to "anyone who has groper insurance and has been accused multiple times of groping" needs to tell that to the judge. Remember, "failure to convict" does not mean that someone is innocent.

This is just me, but I think I would rather take my chances as "a regular guy" than present myself as a guy who is constantly accused of sexual misbehavior AND a groper insurance customer. A judge is going to look at the former and say, "hmm. That could be me." He will look at the latter and say, "Here is a guy who has not gotten nailed yet. " It would probably be worth paying for the lawyer myself, actually, just not to be painted with a broad brush of stink.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

i also take out groper insurance as follows:

i avoid standing too near young ladies and pressing my body into them,

i keep my hands up if possible,

i do not smash into a train that is already 250 per cent capacity but rather I wait the additional 60 seconds for the next train,

I try to avoid getting smashed with alcohol then riding the train and doing something I will regret or forget
6 ( +8 / -2 )

This insurance doesn't seem particularly useful. It only covers legal fees which, if you are falsely accused of being a chikan, are only going to be a small part of your overall loss. Loss of your freedom/time/job/reputation are all going to be uncompensated.

Plus since this only applies to false accusations I assume that if you are convicted the policy won't pay out. Japan's conviction rate is about 99% for cases which go to trial (which are the ones where legal fees are the highest and where you would really want to have them covered). So the odds seem to be stacked against anyone actually getting paid out under this scheme unless there is more to it than the article describes.

The best preventive measure would probably be for the train companies to run more trains since the overcrowded conditions at rush hour undoubtedly acts as an enabling device for gropers. My preferred defence to any false accusations when I get on one of those overcrowded trains where every part of your body is pressed against numerous other people and misunderstandings could happen is to keep both of my hands above my head holding onto the rings, though this isn't always possible.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

To me it sounds like a spinster trying to sell a bottle of cure to the public and do it with mostly half truths. "You better get this or you might be next."

I mean how many gropes a month is reported and proven true or at least somehow documented? And how many false accusations are reported and found to be truly false?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@John Brown

I was wondering how "spinsters" were relevant, but I see you've coined a new word. Give it five years, and that'll be its only meaning.... ; )

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Maria

So, are there any statistics of actual reported cases of false accusations against men?

Maybe, but I think it depends entirely on how you define it. Do you take a narrow view and only count full blown trials where defendants have been acquitted (probably exceedingly rare), or do you also try to count some of the instances of men being arrested but later released without charge after the police or public prosecutor decide there is not enough evidence to proceed? This data probably exists somewhere, but in the latter case it's obviously impossible to say which accusation was false and which was real.

To be honest, in any other country I would be inclined to automatically side with the woman 99% of the time but I think Japan poses some unique issues that should give us reasons to pause (ie. super crowded trains where some contact is unavoidable, the culture of paying hush money, professional gropers who are expert at evading detection, the yakuza using this to extort people in the past, a pervasive fear of being groped burned in the national consciousness, a legal system where many people are led to confess for reasons other than guilt, and so on).

I think it's these wider problems which are the real source of any growing reluctance to automatically believe women. They are what the fears of Japanese men are ultimately based on. Perhaps we can pass a law prohibiting the payment or acceptance of hush money in all sexual assault cases? Maybe that would boost the perceived credibility of victims?

Yes, a huge problem of sexism, that insists that men repress their emotions and fears.

Thanks for acknowledging this. I'm not a champion of men's rights or anything but I think the social pressures on men often get overlooked, especially by third wave feminists.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Regular men recurring to own an insurance against false groping accusations is just as sad as teachers (at least in US) having to buy an insurance against false accusations from monster parents, etc.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@sakurasuki:

This goes unreported as being false accused.

OK, a good place to start. How many accusations of sexual assault on public transport are made per month? And of those, how many of the accused attackers are initially reported as saying they are innocent, or swiftly discounted as being false? Someone somewhere must be compiling data. To have such constant fear of something happening without knowing the chances of it happening, or even how often it actually happens, seems.... well, for starters, it is a waste of 6900 yen. If men are being falsely accused of sexual assault on the same scale as women are being assaulted, I can see the point. For transport companies to further segregate passengers and put on men-only carriages, based on made-up facts, seems financially unviable, and needlessly provocative.

@M3M3M3 : Sexism against women affects everyone detrimentally. The stereotypes forced upon men are a part of that. Those people who say, "I'm not a feminist, but I believe in social equality" simply don't understand what feminism is, or have been sucked in by the negative press about it, which twists and makes up facts, focuses on the extremes, and ignores/mocks the everyday sexism.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

On a different but similar subject I was once accused of a terrible crime by a unknown young woman I didn't do or have any such knowledge of. I professed my innocence to no avail as the mob around me immediately assumed I was guilty and proceeded to take their justice out on me. Yes I got bashed. I later called the police who attended but couldn't find the culprits. The police said to me "don't worry about it, some evil young women do that just for their own fun and twenty years ago when she said you did that crime she would of most probably been 3 or 4 years old and would of never known". Well that didn't help me being covered in blood, torn shirt and humiliated...

6 ( +6 / -0 )

@maria 

Authorities even they do have power to compile and maintain such statistics in certain cases sometimes they just won't do it. Especially in cases that are hardly beneficial for them. For this case once they compiled and publish such data, they will subject to media and public scrutiny how things are being handle. Which can force them to change on how they work or even they need to re-open things that already happened in the past.

There are things that actually already happened for quite sometimes but necessary data just available only recently.

For example:

Not until last December, Cabinet Office trying to figure out how many young women who signed contracts with talent agencies for being an idol were asked to do* "s***omething else".**

Not until this March, MOJ finally published data about foreigners discrimination.
1 ( +1 / -0 )

It's not only the govt. that has the ability to collect data. You'd think that this insurance company, for example, would have compiled some information to support its product. Or a media group. Or a group supporting men's safety. Even an individual has the ability, to organise the means for a collection of anecdotal reports akin to Laura Bates' Everyday Sexism Project.

Nobody has done any research on this? Really? Other than two or three very well-reported cases of men who were falsely accused, that's it? And yet the reaction to almost every accusation of sexual assault on public transport is to doubt it and accuse the woman of lying. Based on what, then, are these doubts and accusations?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

This is petty, avaricious rearing towards a true psych warzone. Best option, cameras and underage and gender-specific sections.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@maria

"..And yet the reaction to almost every accusation of sexual assault on public transport is to doubt it and accuse the woman of lying.."

Well in some cases they do have witnesses and easier to prove like the time when the train is not so crowded as if during rush hour or the few last train during midnight. Whereas in more crowded train it's pretty child play "Guess who touch you from the back" which anyone from behind can be falsely accused.

Like in here:

http://bit.ly/2suZWvC

and here

http://bit.ly/2qPh8e5

1 ( +1 / -0 )

This insurance scheme sounds like opportunistic money-making. It is presumably to cover legal costs, but could be misused by men who do grope. It should be banned. Groping is best reduced surely by public education and alerting everyone to their responsibilities to help their fellow passengers.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Japan is in a constant battle to repel abhorrent belief systems; like islam and feminism. False reporting of crimes should carry the same penalty as actually doing the crime. Bumping into someone on trains chronically filled to 4 times capacity is not a crime -- well maybe filling the train to 4 times capacity is, but that is another story.

The media has devised this victimhood wedge they can drive between the sexes. Men need to start fighting back. This insurance is a good first step. Next the government needs to remove judges that hand down rulings that are unsupportable by FACTS. Don't let your country become the travesty American courts are, where you are guilty. Period. Whether you did anything or not. Whether you were even there or not. A woman makes a psychotic claim and the more outlandish the more courts bend over backwards to miscarry justice. This is not a way to run your society. This is how you destroy it.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Since this offer of insurance is based on two actual cases of men being falsely accused of sexual assault in the last ten years, I look forward to seeing offers of insurance for someone in case they are sexually assaulted.

Oh, wait. That would never happen, would it. The chances of a women being assaulted at some time in her life are - well, I'm not very good at math. Who can work out the odds for me?

*According to the 2015 White Paper on Crime, 3,439 arrests on allegations of groping were made ...in 2014. By comparison, 283 groping cases were filed *

Metropolitan Police Department data shows that an estimated 1,900 groping cases violated the Tokyo ordinance in 2015, of which 72.2 percent occurred either inside a train or at a railway station. Of the 800 sex crimes violating Article 176 in 2015, 14 percent occurred inside trains.*

The number of groping cases that have been reported, however, are likely to be only the tip of the iceberg...

Though it's a bit tricky to figure out accurate odds, since:

*According to a 2010 online survey ...set up by the National Police Agency, 304 out of the 2,221 female respondents had been victims of groping in the past year. Of the 304 victims, 89.1 percent did not report the incident.*

The NPA ought to set up an online survey like this for men who have been falsely accused.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Also, there should be a couple of men only trains as well, so that men can also be protected against false claims. 

You're assuming men don't grope men and that there aren't victims in the women only or won't be victims in the same sex cars.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

How about dresses & clothes that capture fingerprints and handprints...

Used as evidence

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Question? If a person is falsely accused then isn't there a way to pull DNA from the touched location? epidermis or something like that?

Just asking.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I wonder what the punishment is for false accusations. Should they have to spend the same time the falsely accused was in prison? Should there be a more actual eye for an eye / reciprocal punishment (ie the groper's punishment is for him to be groped himself)?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Well this thread lost its mind in pretty short order. We have men's rights advocates and people who don't understand how the legal system or insurance works, and quite a few people who believe that all this is the fault of police, or something. Maybe DNA and fingerprints can give us truth!

Nope. The real problem here is that people live in crowded conditions, have too much stress, can't control themselves, etc. Throw in some bona fide mental illness in even 1 of every 100 train passengers, and you have an explosive cocktail of he said/she said, and everything blows up.

I know where this ends. More state surveillance. Most of the people posting here are vilifying the Abe administration for making new laws to prosecute criminals. It is an invasion of privacy, right? Well, apparently, people can't handle privacy without groping someone. So let's put cameras everywhere and allow people to have their own cameras to prove that they are not gropers. It has to be cheaper than insurance and cheaper than a few extra police officers. State surveillance is the path of least resistance. Yamanote is setting up cameras as I write this.

And when, one day, you wake up feeling like an animal in a cage, you will know it is because you are treated like an animal in a cage because some people act like animals. Most countries are using terrorism to justify state surveillance, but in Japan, groping will do. Everyone will feel safer in a nanny state. Trust me.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Frankly, the solution to this darn problem is decriminalization. Again I will get slammed for not respecting women but crimes should be proportionate and there is no way you can convince me whatever damage is done to a women who got groped is worth say two years deprivation of liberty (imprisonment). Further, crimes should be things the State can actually prove without violating the spirit and letter of Criminal Procedure, and again this isn't it.

Just make it an administrative offence that the police can handle without reference to courts. The fine should be something like 10,000 yen or 5 percent of the man's wages. Half goes to the State, half goes to Victim and that should be end of it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Stop, it already with the 'how would you feel if it is one of yours'.

Not a valid argument just trying to play on emotions, we already know how YOU would react.

Enough already.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

No-one, None can tell in advance how they will react/feel in a hypothetical situation once it actually happen in real life.

Again seen many where actual reaction is way different from their expectations.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Yeah, no lack of respect for women there, Kaz. At least you're consistent. Another hypothetical as long as you're willing to take up the rope. What if the victim were 12? Is there any point where you would consider criminalizing sexual assault? Was Trump's famous boast a crime in your opinion, or is that as innocuous as grabbing someone's behind? He's a fitting symbol for your scheme though, a rich guy who can just throw some money at a woman if she has the temerity to complain. You know, b/c all women are strippers or whores out or a fast buck. Anyway, thanks for engaging. It's always fun when misogyny is laid bare.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I believe one of his arguments was that it's not proportional. Unless he had been found guilty for groping people for 2 years straight, it does not justify imprisonment. Since we don't have true reciprocal punishments (ie the convicted groper's punuihment to be groped), then monetary fines or community service should be given. Another takeaway is that in most countries a person merely accused will have their names in the news, but not the victim. I say innocent until proven guilty and no names until conviction to preserve good name and avoid slander.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

for 2 years
1 ( +1 / -0 )

For those that think women don't lie think again.

False Rape Allegations: An Assault On Justice: By Bruce Gross, PhD, JD, MBA

https://web.archive.org/web/20170207000615/http://www.cotwa.info/p/false-rape-allegations-assault-on.html

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