Japanese prosecutors claim Ghosn said Nissan pay plan was not set

Once again..how is it Illegal to not disclose pay that was never paid or even decided on? Do I need to disclose a payout I "might" get later this year? What if I report an amount I "might" get, but later get a different amount? Will I be arrested and have to flee like Goshn?

Japanese prosecutors claim Ghosn said Nissan pay plan was not set

That's the fact, why they have this trial?

I lost the thread. Why is this detail (that Ghosn believed his compensation was still under negotiation) important?

that trial is just a circus plenty of clowns.

i already lost all my faith in Japanese justice.

‘Nissan officials have testified they sought Ghosn's arrest out of concern Renault, which owns 44% of Nissan, would gain stronger domination of the company’

I’m no fan of corporate bigwigs but this paragraph is quite concerning to say the least. Why should someone be arrested for this? What charge would be considered for ‘gaining stronger domination of a company’??? This is a cornet criminal matter and should have been dealt with under Japan’s corporate watchdog.

‘Corporate matter’ not ‘cornet criminal matter’.

Nissan Chairman Carlos Ghosn told prosecutors during questioning on financial misconduct charges before he fled Japan that his compensation was never decided upon, according to records presented in Tokyo District Court on Tuesday.

Ghosn, who led Nissan for about two decades, fled to Lebanon while out on bail in late 2019.

Ghosn did not flea. He has not fled. He escaped. He has escaped from Japan's farcical legal system.

Once again..how is it Illegal to not disclose pay that was never paid or even decided on? Do I need to disclose a payout I "might" get later this year? What if I report an amount I "might" get, but later get a different amount? Will I be arrested and have to flee like Goshn?

insane isn't it?

that trial is just a circus plenty of clowns.

i already lost all my faith in Japanese justice.

You would have to be a part of that charade, a shameless apologist, or a downright IDIOT to still have faith in the JJ system by now.

Incidently, it is Kelly who is on trail (in a Toytown court). Why is their a picture of Mr. Ghosn? I do believe that the Japanese media is trying a gaslight tactic.

""Ghosn, who led Nissan for about two decades, fled to Lebanon while out on bail in late 2019. He is unlikely to stand trial since Lebanon has no extradition treaty with Japan.""

NOT TRUE, it could be held online!!?

"...attempts by Ghosn to calculate his future pay."

Before forewarned. In Japan, if you are foreign and try to figure out what your salary might be in a few years, without informing your Japanese employer, you can be arrested, held for ages in detention and then convicted and sent to jail.

I wonder if this proviso is in the official PR materials touting Tokyo as the perfect international financial capital? Yokoso!

FREEDOM!!!!!! he needs to get out of Lebanon quick as hyper inflation and safety are huge issue. Bets he wishes he was back in Japan....

get out of Lebanon quick as hyper inflation

Lebanon will handle the post-corona economic meltdown better than Japan for a simple reason.

Debt to GDP ratio...

Japan: 274%

Lebanon:43%

Sadly for us the JPY will lose a lot of value. We better buy assets to keep our wealth.

I feel sorry for Kelly. It doesn’t seem like he did anything wrong or illegal and it didn’t seem that Goshn did anything illegal, that is, until he skipped bail and fled the country.

The only possible answer to all the above questions is that NISSAN wanted Ghosn out, and were willing to make themselves look bad to get it done.

The only possible answer to all the above questions is that NISSAN wanted Ghosn out

Could SHARP do the same thing to their new Taiwanese executives since the majority of ownership of SHARP is by FOXCONN? In case SHARP wants their new Taiwanese bosses out?

Could SHARP do the same thing to their new Taiwanese executives since the majority of ownership of SHARP is by FOXCONN? In case SHARP wants their new Taiwanese bosses out?

Lesson to non-Japanese: don't bail out any Japanese company - just let them rot because they can turn on you when they're finished using you. Talk about biting the hand that feeds.

Lesson to non-Japanese: don't bail out any Japanese company - just let them rot because they can turn on you when they're finished using you. Talk about biting the hand that feeds.

Michael Christopher Woodford? Olympus? He bailed but was never arrested

LOL! Look out prosecutors!!! Your crap is going to hit the fan soon!!!

Once again..how is it Illegal to not disclose pay that was never paid or even decided on?

It was never decided according to who? The accused? The Japanese prosecutors are just incompetent, lying morons? So why didn't he stick around and defend himself rather than go to elaborate measures to not stand trial?

Lesson to non-Japanese: don't bail out any Japanese company - just let them rot because they can turn on you when they're finished using you. Talk about biting the hand that feeds.

What the hell do you mean by "bail out"? Renault, whose cars were almost exclusively, much poorer than Nissan cars but was in a slightly better position financially due to import curbs for foreign vehicles in France, saw an opportunity to invest heavily in Nissan. Even before it become apparent Ghosn was a criminal, he was only a skilled salesperson in the grubby little minds of the most banal corporate media publications. He did nothing to increase the market share of Nissan. It continued to decline. He merely was ruthless enough to preside over mass layoffs, salary and benefit cuts.

So why didn't he stick around and defend himself rather than go to elaborate measures to not stand trial?

According to JT posters Any non Japanese executive of a Japanese company in Japan (and there are quite a few of them like at Dentsu) should get their one-way ticket out before getting arrested. And they could get arrested at any moment. And get tortured.

So why didn't he stick around and defend himself rather than go to elaborate measures to not stand trial?

.... Because he knew he would not get a fair trial under any scenario you can imagine. After all, we are talking about Japan Inc and all that entails.

I still fail to understand why is this crime, and not a civil issue. Also how can he fail to report his income? He gets paid by the company, thus the company fails to report his payment would be the correct understanding, wouldn't it? Or is the assumption that he chose his pay himself and he paid himself as CEO?? He signed his own payment checks?? If the company signed those checks... the company is at fault, isn't that the logical presumption. What am I missing here? Why all the fuss? He didn't report his full income... he didn't pay taxes? is that the implication? I guess I don't understand the pay system to a CEO....

Nissan officials have testified they sought Ghosn's arrest out of concern Renault, which owns 44% of Nissan, would gain stronger domination of the company.

This is crazy!! So they confessed to witch-hunting and sacrificing Ghosn??!! So why is there still a trial??

This is so bizarre.

why didn't he stick around and defend himself rather than go to elaborate measures to not stand trial?

I wouldn't trust the Japanese legal system to provide a fair trial on the matter were I in Ghosn's situation. That would be inanity.

NOT TRUE, it could be held online!!?

and why would Ghosn waist his time doing that, Japanese justice has no jurisdiction over foreign nationals of other countries especially when those countries have no extradition treaty with Japan and the laws in Lebanon prohibit the extradition of its citizens

Bets he wishes he was back in Japan....

why plenty of other countries that he could visit or even live that dont have extradition treaties with Japan,

youre also assuming Ghosn has all his money in Lebanese Lira, im sure he has plenty of currency in Euro $ and GBP

Why is it that every pic they have of Ghosn, they have him looking like an evil/bad person? In the last post about the 2 guys who helped him escape, they had a photo of him clapping his hands as if to imply that he was happy they got charged and not him?

Just think when you put Gaijin under the microscope this is what you find. I can only imagine the scale of corruption in JCORP which we have no visibility or able to see. Only reason this came to light is because his colleagues fed him to the sharks.

his colleagues fed him to the sharks.

Michael Christopher Woodford was fed to the sharks by Olympus, but he was never arrested. What happened? How come Woodford wasn't arrested but Ghosn was?

Michael Woodford (Olympus) spent so much time and money to get heard.

Authorities didn't wanna hear him or let him speak out. Was bullied by the company and trashed by the press.

Was a odyssey for him to make the right thing.

Because he knew he would not get a fair trial under any scenario you can imagine. After all, we are talking about Japan Inc and all that entails.

Really? How did he know that?

Ghosn is under two investigations in France, one that is focused on suspicious transactions between Renault and a distributor in Oman, as well as another investigation into alleged illegal payments for private trips and events paid by Renault-Nissan’s Netherlands-based holding company, RNBV.

(Wikipedia)

Ghosn is also wanted for questioning in France. What's going on? Why are people only talking about Japan? Is Ghosn facing criminal legal in other countries? But just continue to pick on Japan rather than mentioning France or other countries he is possibly wanted in? Do the US Feds want him?

Michael Woodford (Olympus) spent so much time and money to get heard

So all I have to do in Japan if I commit a serious crime is leave the country, spend time and money getting myself heard, then return to Japan and not face arrest. Is that how the Japanese criminal system works? Maybe Ghosn can do this for France, so he won't be tried for any crimes there? Because it worked so well for Woodford. Again, France and NOT Japan.

iffy conviction rate Paul.

The FBI has about the same conviction rate.

@ChiaPetToday 07:10 am JST

Your analogy is inaccurate. A better question is whether a company has a duty to disclose an expenditure whose amount is not finalized, but the approximate amount is known and it is nearly certain it has to be paid out.

As Ghosn puts it:

In one segment, Ghosn highlighted that by pointing out that if a plane he was on were to crash, his wife wouldn’t get any of of the money.

Uh ... in other words, unless something with about a 1 in a million chance happens, the money will have to be paid.

Above in response to:

Once again..how is it Illegal to not disclose pay that was never paid or even decided on? Do I need to disclose a payout I "might" get later this year? What if I report an amount I "might" get, but later get a different amount? Will I be arrested and have to flee like Goshn?

@

**wtfjapan **why plenty of other countries that he could visit or even live that dont have extradition treaties with Japan

Not so sure about that. Where can he really go? He is still hiding in poor and unstable corrupt Lebanon.

For sure he is cut off USA and South Korea, should he enter he will be arrested and same as those who helped him to escape, he will find himself back in Japan as an international fugitive.

His huge bail he paid in Japan for being out of detention is already forfeited.

In USA you can often escape justice if you are able to pay, and Ghosn paid 1 million USD, Kelly USD 100.000,- out of private money and used 15 million USD out of Nissan money for hiding 140 million USD to US regulators.

However you cannot do that in Japan.

He is also in trouble in EU, especially in France. Further, Brazil is a good friend of Japan, in his situation I would avoid that country too.

About his money, it will not last forever - he lost millions of USD during the last years to pay for his escape, to pay for bail in Japan, to pay US regulators and so on.

About Kelly, he is a different person and US-citizen - he was always considered in USA and in Japan to assist Ghosn, but not for his own financial benefit. He never broke his bail conditions in Japan and likely not much will happen to him.

Unlike the wife of Ghosn - also on the interpol red alert list by Japan and would find herself in big trouble as US citizen should she return to USA, the wife of Kelly was never a suspect of any wrongdoing, she knows nothing and is allowed to leave and enter USA and Japan anytime.

No idea where Ghosn and his wife could go to be safe - I guess they are merely waiting it out in Lebanon...I don't know in their case about the statute of limitations.

Is Nissan gonna pay that promised money or not?

It's been 2 years already, Ghosn is still waiting for that money.

sir_bentley28Today 12:15 pm JST

Why is it that every pic they have of Ghosn, they have him looking like an evil/bad person? In the last post about the 2 guys who helped him escape, they had a photo of him clapping his hands as if to imply that he was happy they got charged and not him?

He was not happy about that. For sure Ghosn was horrified when he got informed that these two US-citizens who he paid for his escape from Japan were arrested within USA and extradited to Japan by US-courts. It shows that the legal system in USA really works and the agreement between USA and Japan regarding extradition of criminals is fully respected.

Keep in mind that the wife of Ghosn is an US citizen and on the interpol red notice list too.

@Yohan

That Interpol red notice is a request from Japan, and the French investigation also based on Japanese provided evidence.

The UN denounced the injustice and the arbitrary detention of Ghosn.

Interpol will surely align with UN and back down the red notice.

And most likely France will also back down, as all French media is defending Ghosn innocence.

Whenever I hear the words "Japanese prosecutor" now, I just picture an incompetent man in a cheap suit standing around looking confused with his little you-know-what in his hand.

the French investigation also based on Japanese provided evidence.

Are you sure?

Ghosn is under two investigations in France, one that is focused on suspicious transactions between Renault and a distributor in Oman, as well as another investigation into alleged illegal payments for private trips and events paid by Renault-Nissan’s Netherlands-based holding company, RNBV.

(Wikipedia)

Sounds a bit outside Japan's jurisdiction.

I just figure most posters here defending that flagrant thief and criminal have been beaten down and abused so long by US or UK justice, they can't comprehend Japan isn't just as bad. And Japan is almost as bad but this case is proof it isn't yet. In Japan, even international capitalists can be arrested for theft and other white collar crimes. In USA and UK, an international capitalist getting arrested and jailed is almost unheard of.

@nishikat

the French investigation also based on Japanese provided evidence.

Are you sure?

Absolutely.

Absolutely

In 2019 he paid $1 million to settle a fraud charge brought against him by the US Securities and Exchange Commission that alleged he hid more than $140 million of his pay.

Was that also based on evidence Japanese authorities provided?

Really? How did he know that?

Are you new to Japan or something? If you aren't, maybe try reading the news. If you are, maybe try reading up on the subject before asking questions that you could answer with a google.

In 2019 he paid $1 million to settle a fraud charge brought against him by the US Securities and Exchange Commission that alleged he hid more than $140 million of his pay.

All other Nissan executives were charged on the same fraud. Don't you know that?

Is not a Ghosn issue, is a Nissan corporative issue.

Absolutely

suspicious transactions between Renault and a distributor in Oman

(Wikipedia)

How is this figure into the J. case specifically? Oman?

Yohan

I know he wasn't happy about how Japan went after these 2 good samaritians. I wouldn't be happy either! I was simply implying that the images of Mr. Ghosn JT or the media uses are always to tarnish his image as a bad guy. But how can he be a bad guy when they have nothing on him?

I feel like any image of Ghosn, the Jmedia will make it look bad.

Ghosn : eating a sandwich

Jmedia : Ghosn taking a bit out of our justice system

Ghosn : laughing at a scene from the movie "Naked Gun 33 1/3"

Jmedia : Ghosn laughs at Japan as he escapes his crimes against us Japanese

As has been suspected all along. Ghosn was scapegoated in an underhanded coup. It was the fault of Nissan that his salary was not set and he was given a free reign to do as he please. When they realized he was having too much freedom with Nissan funds they alleged he was misappropriating funds and had him arrested. The only thing Ghosn did wrong was have too much fun spending Nissan’s money.

@nishikat

How is this figure into the J. case specifically? Oman?

it's one of the 3 charges Ghosn got from Japanese prosecution.

Japan apparently got a grip into that with the help of Nissan, and then sent the evidence to France, apparently.

Unluckily, the alleged partner (from Oman) denies it all, so it's a dead end.

*I watch French TV, that's why I know.

Are you new to Japan or something? If you aren't, maybe try reading the news. If you are, maybe try reading up on the subject before asking questions that you could answer with a google.

Over 5 years. I read the news pretty much everyday. Instead of me searching for an answer on Google, could you provide a link explaining how he knew he wouldn't receive a fair trial in Japan?

@Paul

We all have friends and relatives that where detained and forced confessed crimes that they didn't do.

It's called Hostage Justice, and its more common than you think.

This video its gonna give you a quick hands up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRn4xzaugbk

Over 5 years.

Ok, so you're still a newbie.

Probably time to read up on the history of this thousand year old nation. It's a lot longer than 5 years. Foreigners have been here for decades longer than that.

We all have friends and relatives that where detained and forced confessed crimes that they didn't do.

Do we? Could I ask you to stop speaking for me? I think the treatment for minor marijuana offences or drunken fist fights is overly harsh. In this case, it was far too lenient. The guy was suspected (now confirmed) to have stolen millions or 10s or 100s of $. He should never have been given bail. Just because in USA and UK such international capitalist criminals get a slap on the wrist, at worst, doesn't mean they aren't ruthless criminals who should be locked up.

Probably time to read up on the history of this thousand year old nation. It's a lot longer than 5 years. Foreigners have been here for decades longer than that.

I'm not ignorant enough to think the history of Japan is 1000 years. ひらがな was invented a little over 1000 years ago. For around 500 years before that they used 漢字 exclusively.

So any luck providing the links that demonstrate he knew he wouldn't get a fair trial in Japan?

@Paul

Did you watch the video?

What does it say about "Innocent until proven guilty" ?

Did you miss that part?

Did you watch the video?

What does it say about "Innocent until proven guilty" ?

Did you miss that part?

Work isn't a wolf. It doesn't run into the forest. If I had 2 or 3% of the money Ghosn stole, I'd have more time to watch your little videos.

The botton line is, the criminal justice system in any capitalist society is by design, a sick joke. The fact the theif and criminal Ghosn was facing serious jail time shows in Japan it (the criminal justice system) isn't as bad as in Western countries.

Probably still worse than Russia and China where he likely wouldn't have been given bail.

@Paul

The point is that Ghosn where detained in infrahuman conditions for 130 days, and after years of re-arresting and waiting the date for the trial never came.

He had to scape from that injustice out of despair.

UN, Japanese BAR association, and other international organizations agree that Ghosn detention was unfair, illegal and arbitrary. And JJ System must compensate Ghosn for it.

OK! now you know the full story.

Cheers!

Infrahuman?? Are you in Lebanon, being paid a minimal wage from the confirmed thief and criminal in order to defend his "good name"?

At least lets hope his accomplice gets serious jail time. And the poor idiots who helped him escape will surely have the book thrown at them. It's not all bad news. He also likely won't be able to leave Lebanon. Too bad for the Lebanese people but at least the dangerous criminal will be kept away from me in Japan or when I go back to Europe.

@Paul

To be a criminal you must have a trial, and be declared guilty.

Please don't call people criminals before conviction.

Stick to the premise: Innocent until proven guilty.

bokudaToday 01:33 pm JST

@Yohan

That Interpol red notice is a request from Japan, and the French investigation also based on Japanese provided evidence.

The UN denounced the injustice and the arbitrary detention of Ghosn.

Interpol will surely align with UN and back down the red notice.

--------------------

It remains the fact, not disputed, that Ghosn was out on bail and was illegally leaving Japan.

His bail of $14 million is forfeited.

This alone makes him an international fugitive and justifies his arrest. Should he ever enter Japan, a prison term cannot be avoided. What has this to do with UN?

About the interpol red notice, there are two of them, one is about him, and the other one is about his wife who is holding US-citizenship.

Interesting that you do not complain about the justice system in USA, which surely has its own problems.

I was surprised to see that USA arrested and extradited these two US-citizens to Japan, who assisted Ghosn to leave Japan illegally. Others assisting Ghosn with providing the airplane are in troubles in Turkey.

About Ghosn, he has nowhere really to go, so he and wife are now waiting it out in Lebanon with armed bodyguards - a rather unstable corner next to Israel.

It doesn't matter what criminals say anymore.

This alone makes him an international fugitive and justifies his arrest. Should he ever enter Japan, a prison term cannot be avoided. What has this to do with UN?

The UN sees it as an escape from an unjust system, it won't accept the JJ System narrative. And the Interpol must follow the UN directives.

I really hope that Japan follows the UN directives as well, so it can benefit from the free trade agreement with UN.

I was surprised to see that USA arrested and extradited these two US-citizens to Japan

it was surprising to say the least.

Now we know, from Bloomberg, that it had to do with some missiles agreement that they had.

Why is it that every pic they have of Ghosn, they have him looking like an evil/bad person?

That's just the way he looks.

Ghosn got arrested because he was a gaijin shaking things up at a Japanese company, and the Japanese don't tolerate that for long.

Sir Bentley:

Why is it that every pic they have of Ghosn, they have him looking like an evil/bad person? In the last post about the 2 guys who helped him escape, they had a photo of him clapping his hands as if to imply that he was happy they got charged and not him?

>

Hello, have you seen any time that a foreigner can win in any courtroom in Japan…? How Mr. Gosen, and Mr. Kelly, can win..? In Japan, they use you as a foreigner, until the Japanese society gets tire of you….how, mr. Gosen, o Mr. Kelly, can diciv, the Japanese sistem is too complicate, even the normal Japanese person, hardly can understand..is unfair. Good luck with them, and good save them from the Japanese….

PaulToday 02:34 pm JST

In 2019 he paid $1 million to settle a fraud charge brought against him by the US Securities and Exchange Commission that alleged he hid more than $140 million of his pay.

You have to add that the US regulator also barred him from serving as a corporate executive for 10 years.

No businessman who feels he is not guilty will buy himself out in USA to avoid prosecution in return of $ 1 million of his own wallet + $ 15 million out of the Nissan corporation in USA.

No bsinessman who feels he is not guilty, is willing to leave $ 14 million bail money behind him and pays huge money additionally to be smuggled out of Japan to be transferred to one of the most corrupt countries worldwide for hiding and claiming he is worried not to get a fair trial.

wipeoutToday 06:33 pm JST

He could go to France, where as a French national, he is safe from extradition. France does not extradite its nationals to any country, which is a pretty high degree of protection, one that most of us do not have.

If this is true why did he not go straight to France, but to Lebanon? Yes, he will not be extradited in France but this does not protect him against detention/prosecution facing trial within France. He is under investigation in France for various irregularities, tax fraud.

A French judge permitted authorities in December 2020 to seize $16 million in assets from Ghosn and his wife, Carole, the investigation is still going on.

No bsinessman who feels he is not guilty, is willing to leave $ 14 million bail money behind him

this guy is getting $27 million a year from Nissan, and much more from Renault.

the money is not an issue for these people.

bokudaToday 05:36 pm JST

@Paul

To be a criminal you must have a trial, and be declared guilty.

Please don't call people criminals before conviction.

Stick to the premise: Innocent until proven guilty.

Not true, to skip bail and leave the concerned country illegally makes you automatically an international fugitive from justice. Should Ghosn ever return to Japan a jail sentence cannot be avoided.

You might consider to skip bail and illegally pass over the border is a kind of 'jail-break' - already proven to be guilty.

bokudaToday 10:17 pm JST

this guy is getting $27 million a year from Nissan, and much more from Renault.

the money is not an issue for these people.

You mean he GOT $ 27 million a year from Nissan and much more from Renault. Not any more.

Money will become an issue for him too, especially after receiving a new corrected notice regarding back taxes. $16 million in assets are already seized by French authorities.

bokudaToday 05:17 pm JST

The point is that Ghosn where detained in infrahuman conditions for 130 days, and after years of re-arresting and waiting the date for the trial never came.

He had to scape from that injustice out of despair.

What a ridiculolus comment, Japanese justice is really soft compared to USA, there are remarkably few people - waiting for trial or convicted - in jail. Only about 49.000 inmates out of a population of 126 million people. In USA, there are 2.19 million people in jail, convicted or awaiting trial, under horrible condition, plenty of violence going on there, in often overcrowded prison buildings. Everybody knows that.

Cells of the Tokyo detention house where Ghosn was detained were shown to international reporters in 2019.

Still you can read and see pictures of them on the internet.

If you call these cells infrahuman towards prisoners, better look up conditions in prisons in other Asian countries.

to skip bail and leave the concerned country illegally makes you automatically an international fugitive from justice.

he escaped injustice.

Money will become an issue for him too,

he has so many assets, money will never, ever, be an issue for Ghosn.

If you call these cells infrahuman towards prisoners, better look up conditions in prisons in other Asian countries.

basic human rights are still violated on that detentions: arbitrary re-detentions to keep detainees indefinitely, daily interrogations without lawyer, lights on 24/7, solitaire confinement, deny contact with family/friends, etc.

pretty much every year people suicide inside that detention centers.