crime

Japanese banks tighten security after Y1.8 bil taken from 7-Eleven ATMs

25 Comments
By SATOSHI SUGIYAMA

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25 Comments
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Better late than never I suppose

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I don't get it. Surely the Japanese ATM verifies the transaction with the foreign bank before issuing the cash. If the foreign bank issues an OK, there should be a watertight legal framework for the Japanese ATM institution to receive payment.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Japanese banks that lost some 1.8 billion yen ($16.5 million) when fake overseas cards were used

From what I've read, the South African bank is the only one that will bear the loss. My understanding is that the 7/11 ATMs are only responsible for sending the card details and pin number through the system. Once the South African bank verifies that the pin is correct and that the customer is not over their credit limit, they authorise the ATM to release the money. Whether the card turns out to be stolen or cloned is not the the ATM owner's problem.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Tighten security? Something other than the high-tech wooden stamp?!

7 ( +8 / -1 )

So now anyone living here but using money from an overseas account will have to go to an ATM daily for about two weeks in a row in order to get cash. Ridiculous.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

An expression related to stable doors and bolted horses would apply here.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

This isn't "tightening security", it's just strapping smaller limits on the same kinds of cards. How does it prevent people doing the same thing with foreign cards? Meanwhile, it puts limits on people who would use them honestly and might need more money.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

Of course Jspanese issued cards to 'locals' will never be subject to fraud. Sounds good. Can't wait until this happens with 'local' credit cards. I can see the handwringing and deep bows already. Hypocrites.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

mast atms in the states only allow you to withdraw $200 anyways, so reducing the limit to $500 isn't that big of a deal. and since japan accepts credit cards in most places, i hardly see this as a burden to travelers.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

MsDelicious at Jun. 08, 2016 - 08:12AM JST "So now anyone living here but using money from an overseas account will have to go to an ATM daily for about two weeks in a row in order to get cash. Ridiculous."

Do you mean each month? That would still give you about ¥25,000 per day. Do you really need that much money?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

When the droves of foreigners for 2020 roll in without any cash and cards only (because they think all the world is the same as their country) are going to be seriously in trouble. I suspect families will be sleeping in the street.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@smithinjapan totally agree. "Tightened security" would something like having a camera recognition system that won't allow users to operate the ATM unless they remove masks, helmets, etc. or requiring better authentication.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Well........ A max of 50,000 yen! Yes, gonna be a problem for visitors. Yes, as gogogo says, in 2020 they'll be living on the street. A warm welcome, NOT.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

"Tightened security" would something like having a camera recognition system that won't allow users to operate the ATM unless they remove masks, helmets, etc. or requiring better authentication.

And guys with beards should be required to shave and women should be required to remove all makeup.

I don't know what countries other than the UK have, but "hole in the wall machines" in UK use only a 4 digit PIN. This is, however, verified against an embedded chip rather than a magnetic stripe. I don't know about all Japanese banks, but the majors have been calling in the stripe cards and replacing them with embedded chip cards.

As far as I can see security in Japan is similar to that in the UK except that there is more concern that you will be mugged when you get your money rather than that you are getting it fraudulently in Britain.

Of course Jspanese issued cards to 'locals' will never be subject to fraud. Sounds good. Can't wait until this happens with 'local' credit cards. I can see the handwringing and deep bows already. Hypocrites.

Do you have some reason to believe that Japanese credit card issuers would believe that "locals" would never engage in fraud?

A quick search in Japanese shows that there are numerous warnings in Japanese to Japanese about credit card fraud. These warnings make no mention of foreigners. I get such warnings from my bank on a regular basis. The warnings are in Japanese and make no mention of foreign scam artists. I also get similar warnings about scams from my local police precinct. NHK has had for some months a series ストップ詐欺被害!私はだまされない (Stop the Scams! I'm not going to be fooled!) that is devoted to helping people avoid getting ripped off by other Japanese.

http://www.nhk.or.jp/shutoken/stop-sagi/index2.html

0 ( +2 / -2 )

There is a fee every time you do a withdrawal so instead of a single 100,000 yen withdrawal you now have to make two. This of course does not prevent the same thing from occurring again but it doubles the banks fee revenue. They must be rubbing their hands in glee at this windfall. As M3M3M3 quite correctly points out, its the SA bank who will being coughing up, not them. So really its just being used as an excuse to increase its revenue on foreign card exchanges of mainly tourists?...NICE!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

"This isn't "tightening security", it's just strapping smaller limits...? "

In this case, it is tightened security. IF you remember, in this case, something like 100 people went from location to location withdrawing money and only managed to get a pretty small amount of money each time. It happened to add up to a reasonably large amount. Reward was enough to compensate the risk.

Easiest solution? If you cannot increase the risk to the thieves easily, then reduce the reward. Making thieves do the exact same thing, but cutting the reward in half, say, will either force thieves to cut corners and accept higher risk, and run to more ATMS, or they will have to pay their accomplices less, meaning that lower grade teams will have to be used. More repetition, more patterns, more criminal counts when they are caught, more surveillance.

I think they already know who did it. If they use certain foreign cards, they will get picked up by the police. They want to deter others by reducing the payday. They probably also know how many customers make what kinds of withdrawals, and figured they could cut their own risk quite a bit while inconveniencing only a few people.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If you are a Japanese resident who regularly uses an overseas card to withdraw cash you can expect a visit from the taxman before long. Overseas income is taxable here and the best option is to keep it overseas and deny all knowledge of it here.

Interesting to read that there was a manual on how to use the fake cards. That points to it being a crime committed by Japanese, probably gangsters well known to the police. If in doubt, prepare a manual.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@scrote

If you are a Japanese resident or national who use overseas card to withdraw cash, you don't have to fear the visit of the taxman for one reason : ATM banking system isn't connect to the tax office computer system. So there are no problem (but if you do receive the visit of the taxman it s mean they found you base on other elements than that point)

Same if you are a Japanese NATIONAL and you receive money from abroad you will have mainly no questions ask by the tax office (except if your bank creates trouble if the origin of the money is too suspicious... but it s rare).

Japan don't connect computer system to each others for good or bad (mainly it s to respect the privacy). It s the same for the Shaken (the tax on car you pay every XX years) ... I won't develop but working in the field and talking a lot with police unit, and tax office and so on, Japan don't have tight security.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

How about cracking down on organized crime??????

3 ( +3 / -0 )

That is punishing all the foreign CC's holders, racking more fixed commission for something they are not responsible. Since they are all claiming that the Japanese banks lost some 1.8 billion and not the SA bank, the only outcome is that they did not handle correctly the "security" part of the transaction, punishing now customers for their (JP bank) own incompetence.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

In point of fact, Japanese banks did not lose money, the South African bank that issued the cards would be responsible for the loss. And by limiting the amount that users can withdraw at one time, the banks are able to increase their fees.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

And guys with beards should be required to shave and women should be required to remove all makeup.

Banks already request customers to remove masks and such when using ATMs. Your bank must be taking it to the next level if they're asking you to shave.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Any excuse to jack up fees.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@educator:

I need to exchange $3000 a month to Yen, so yes, I do need that much per day. Think about the hassle they set me up for. You computations means I have to go to the ATM 12 times each month, pay the user fee and then go to the ATM of my bank here in Japan and deposit it. Stinking hassle. Thanks for caring.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If you are a Japanese resident or national who use overseas card to withdraw cash, you don't have to fear the visit of the taxman for one reason : ATM banking system isn't connect to the tax office computer system. So there are no problem (but if you do receive the visit of the taxman it s mean they found you base on other elements than that point)

Same if you are a Japanese NATIONAL and you receive money from abroad you will have mainly no questions ask by the tax office (except if your bank creates trouble if the origin of the money is too suspicious... but it s rare).

I don't know about ATMs, but cash movements in and out of Japan between Japanese and overseas banks most definitely can be and are monitored by the tax office. Perfectly legitimately. If they see reason to raise questions, they will do so.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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