Japanese falls for bitcoin scam in Canada after deportation threat

Japanese falls for bitcoin scam 

bitcoin IS a scam

But govts do business by snail-mail.

Bitcoin is no more a scam than anything used in bartering, but any govt accepting it would almost certainly be a scam.

Sorry, but the guy was a sucker or he was running scared!

It seemed an elaborate scam by people that knew him?

bitcoin IS a scam

Just keep telling yourself that as you watch your US dollar or yen savings disappear.

Doesn't matter to others what you think of Bitcoin, but you might want to study it better, if only to protect yourself.

Japanese national living abroad should go direct to Japanese Embassy or the consulates when threatened to see it's real or not. Actually, I just come back from Vancouver yesterday and it was a great experience...

The victim never found the fact that a government agency wanted the overdue taxes paid in Bitcoin at all suspicious?

This is well known scam in Canada. The scammers target new immigrants or people with poor English language skills and scare them into paying up. The newcomer is generally not familiar with Canadian tax laws and the fact that things don't just add up.

haha, apparently stupidity is still common ... well done on the job.

this is so weird, I just went to my local tax office and asked if I can pay my taxes with bitcoin, guess what. they said no. I told them it is a "great monetary vessel" and they finally agreed.

Just show them this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vd19SboRhVY

yes we need a high mental capacity to use bitcoin, its only for smart people haha

Scumbag.

That said, Japanese are known for being gullible to such money scams, hence "ore ore" is such an established and successful institution. It's pretty clear the guy(s) knew whom they were targeting, and the chance of success. Always verify whom you're talking to, people.

If you think bitcoin is a scam you are over the hill.

I don't think bitcoin is a scam per se, but the claims made by bitcoin advocates about the supposed benefits of bitcoin are either wildly exagerated or completely miss the mark.

I find that the people around me who most vociferously advocate for bitcoin are often the most financially illiterate people I know who usually own no asset, no stocks, and have never actually own the huge stickpiles of government issued currency they claim bitcoin will protect. Wealthy people do not (and have never) lost sleep over currency inflation. The idea that anyone with any extra wealth actually holds vast amounts of currency in the bank is a myth that only poor people seem to believe through their own financial illiteracy. They own investment property, land, businesses, stocks, antique violins, jewellery, art, etc. These things are all better hedges against inflation than a crypotcurreny without state backing which could be outlawed or lose popularity overnight.

I suppose the bitcoin will be the next big scam currency, currently I thought it was iTunes and Amazon gift certs, bloody anyone who thinks any kind of officially agency needs to collect through that deserves to be scammed.

outlawed or lose popularity overnight.

Cannot see how Bitcoin can be outlawed as it is decentralized. Even if it is there are dozens of currencies waiting to be used instead and many of these are completely secret so zero chance of any outlawing of them. Market capitalization of these currencies "altcoins" had risen from $3 billion USD to 83 billion since March of this year. Kind of popular?

Cannot see how Bitcoin can be outlawed

Very simply. Just pass legislation saying 'storing, dealing in, or transacting in any cyptocurrency is an offence punishible by xx years in prison'. If governments are serious about it, they could make is prosecutable regardeless of where in the world it takes place.

If enough countries passed similar legislation, the value of bitcoin would likely crash as liquidity dried up. Most law abiding citizens and legitimate exchanges wouldn't risk it even if it is theoretically difficult to trace. Remember, governments already make it illegal to start issuing your own paper currency and gold coins have been outlawed in the past in various countries. Banning bitcoin would not be a stretch.

anytime people use term like "crypotcurreny" and "altcoins" instead of telling you how it works and how much it is worth is scamming you.

Oh yeah, and claim you have to have some kind of higher intelligence to use it. What is this, Scientology money? stop already

Wealthy people do not (and have never) lost sleep over currency inflation.

Not relevant. Wealthy people are usually protected from any eventuality. It's the middle class who rely on their pension plans and 401Ks who will get whacked by inflation. I don't think many of us are losing sleep over the financial security of the wealthy.

Just pass legislation saying 'storing, dealing in, or transacting in any cyptocurrency is an offence punishible by xx years in prison'. 

That's a grim, authoritarian world you are painting there. Granted, many would like to see that. I would hope you are not one of them. As inflation hedges, everything has weaknesses, land and gold can be heavily taxed and regulated - taking away any advantage they might have provided. Blockchains are decentralized, making them difficult to regulate with draconian and undemocratic laws, and plenty of innocents in prison. Governments working to ban paper money is one reason why decentralized currencies are taking off. At a certain point, black markets go way beyond the ability of any government to control. Quite often, the survival of an economy depends on keeping black markets running.

> claims made by bitcoin advocates about the supposed benefits of bitcoin are either wildly exagerated or completely miss the mark.

What claims are those? Please be specific if you wish to write off so many thoughtful people.

anytime people use term like "crypotcurreny" and "altcoins" instead of telling you how it works and how much it is worth is scamming you.

Those are the accepted terms. At least in English. People are not obligated to define every new word every time they use it. There is plenty of information on the net explaining how this process works. Though I admit it takes some time to wrap one's head around it. I wasn't aware that the need for "higher intelligence" was claimed by anyone though. But it is awfully easy just to say "bah, humbug...it's a scam." I have lost count of the people who started off saying that who are now fervent converts.

Those are the accepted terms...Though I admit it takes some time to wrap one's head around it

Enjoy your bitcoin crusade to convince people its legit

@commanteer

It's the middle class who rely on their pension plans and 401Ks who will get whacked by inflation.

Do you mind telling us if you actually have a 401k retirement plan or any other savings? If so, what is it invested in? Stocks and other assets that generally rise directly in line with inflation? Or just cash that is being eaten away by inflation? How much at risk cash does the average middleclass person have sitting in their bank account being eaten away by inflation? Not very much unless they are very foolish.

What claims are those? Please be specific if you wish to write off so many thoughtful people.

That if we don't invest in bitcoin our US dollar and Yen savings will disappear. That governments can't get together to cripple the liquidity of cryptocurrencies by passing legislation to ban them because they are 'decentralised'.

As inflation hedges, everything has weaknesses

Yes I agree, but the potential risks and volatility associated with bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies make it infinitely more risky and unwise to invest in. It might be great for buying drugs anonymously over the internet, but it's just not worth it for 99.999% of investors. If you live in Venezuela or Zimbabwe then OK, go ahead and put your savings in bitcoin but if you live anywhere else, you are better off investing in the stockmarket, land, property or even a first edition printing of a Dickens novel.

I don't think cryptocurrencies should be banned, at least not yet. But if they eventually come to threaten the currency and monetary system which I directly own and control as a citizen and member of my democratic society, then cryptocurrencies will have to be outlawed if the majority of my fellow citizens think it's wise to do so.

How much at risk cash does the average middleclass person have sitting in their bank account being eaten away by inflation?

Not quite sure why you are so focused on bank accounts, especially as I specifically mentioned pensions. Nothing wrong with stocks, but again that is beside the point. Well-chosen stocks are certainly lower risk. However, nobody will see the gains in stocks that can be seen in cryptocurrencies. (Or the losses, in most cases.) And it's much more difficult for a government to relieve someone of their bitcoin than of their stocks or physical assets. Feel free to discuss these on their merits, but I don't discuss personal finances with most friends even, much less strangers on a public forum. Nor do I see where it is relevant. Suffice to say, I understand economics.

That if we don't invest in bitcoin our US dollar and Yen savings will disappear. That governments can't get together to cripple the liquidity of cryptocurrencies by passing legislation to ban them because they are 'decentralised'.

I don't know anyone who makes those claims. Nobody reasonable anyway. Though I think there is a strong likelihood of inflation, increased taxes, bankruptcies and "bail-ins" (as happened in Cyprus) depleting savings. Most people are also aware that the government can greatly impact the value of bitcoin with legislation. Many are just betting that they won't resort to such heavy handed tactics. For now.

I also dispute that you own or control your monetary system as a citizen. It may be serving you now, maybe not. But it can certainly serve the interests of a coercive, corrupt and unaccountable government. In those lines, why on earth would you even suggest banning bitcoin? What is it to you that others choose to transact in a mutually agreeable way?

Most crypto, by the way, does not automatically exclude government influence or taxation. One could make the case that blockchains make it easier for governments to track transactions. Certainly easier than with cash.

Frankly, blockchains are the future. Whether they are free of government control or completely controlled by governments is another issue entirely.

Whether you believed it's true or not, not the issue. Ok, I forgot to pay this mystery tax. Please send me the bill asap so I can take care of it. Obviously the bill will never come. If legitimate, it would arrive the following week with official paperwork and contact info - which you could verify by address, phone, title, etc. These phone scams only work because there's always someone born without a brain.

@commanteer

Not quite sure why you are so focused on bank accounts, especially as I specifically mentioned pensions.

Because nobody who has their money invested in a normal pension fund is seriously at risk of having its value eaten away by inflation. Only those who keep money in a bank accounts or under their mattress will suffer from inflation. This is why I ask about whether you have a pension, not because I'm interested in your personal finance, but because if you do have a pension you will receive a statement telling you exactly what stocks, funds, sectors, countries, etc you are invested in. You would quickly realise that nearly none of your pension is in held in cash or at risk of being eaten by inflation. The only people who might seriously suffer from inflation are pensioners who haven't saved enough for retirement, but this would also be the case for a pensioner who hasn't bought enough bitcoins for retirement right? I'm middle class, I own a home, I have 2 mortgages on rental properties, a business, investments, a retirement plan, and inflation is my actually friend. Every month I walk by the realestate office in my neighbourhood to see how much more the apartments in my building are selling for and I have an extra spring in my step when the prices go up. If I'm not worried about inflation, nobody should be. In fact, it's the lack of inflation that has led to Japan's economic malaise.

I don't know anyone who makes those claims.

Sorry, I thought you were claiming that unless we invest in bitcoin we could see our US dollar and Yen savings would disappear when you said "Just keep telling yourself that as you watch your US dollar or yen savings disappear". To the other point about banning bitcoin, Michaelqtodd seems to believe that bitcoin cannot be outlawed because it is decentralised.

You also mention Cyprus but that was not a government currency issue, that was an insolvent bank issue. Depositors in Cyprus only had to take a haircut as a consequence of keeping their money in insolvent banks (and recovered some of their money thanks to bail-ins and deposit insurance). On the otherhand, the people who kept their money in the insolvent MtGox bitcoin exchange lost everything.

In those lines, why on earth would you even suggest banning bitcoin? What is it to you that others choose to transact in a mutually agreeable way?

Good question. Because a national currency will eventually find its way back into the national economy in a virtuous circle. If I live in that national economy, I want to do everything I can to preserve the system for the financial benefit of myself and my neighbours.

Years ago I was in Berlin and had to travel across the city in the middle of the night. I didn't have any Euros and all of the currency exchange places were closed (and this was before you could pay by credit card), so I asked the taxi driver if he would accept a Japanese 5000yen bill. He was reluctant but since I was a bit desperate, he agreed. Now, my question for you is what eventually happened to that 5000yen? Where did it go? The answer is that it eventually made it's back to Japan, either to buy Japanese goods or into Japanese capital. The taxidriver obviously exchanged it. After that, my 5000yen bill might have been sold on to a German tourist coming to Japan. Or the currency exchange place sold it to a German bank who then invested the money in construction project in central Tokyo, maybe to build a Mercedes Benz dealership or and office tower. The point is that the best (and probably only) thing they could do with the money was to spend it in Japan because that is the geographical location where Yen have the highest value. If I had paid that taxidriver in bitcoins, it's unlikely that it would have returned to Japan. So, if you want the society you live in to prosper economically, it helps to use the societies currency to ensure its value, so that someone like myself or yourself can go to foreign lands and exchange these worthless pieces of coloured paper for real services like taxi rides in Berlin. This is why I oppose your use of bitcoin or any other medium of exchange.

I also dispute that you own or control your monetary system as a citizen.

I'm not surprised. In my experience most bitcoin advocates are not very civic minded. They seem to think the government is something separate which is out to get the people, rather than believing in the idea that we the people create and own our own government. It's an interesting philosophical divide I've noticed.

Maybe the scammers fooled him by saying "Ore Ore" at the start of the call.

One born every minute.

Why worry if all your dos are legal and on point?