crime

Japanese regulators recommend ¥2.4 bil fine for Nissan

32 Comments
By YURI KAGEYAMA

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32 Comments
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How about the fine for under reporting Saikawa’s compensation

35 ( +37 / -2 )

Yeah but I would love to know just WHO at Nissan, current or recent employees, are going to take the fall, as co-defendants with Ghosn?

20 ( +20 / -0 )

That would mean the customers who bought Nissan cars would be paying the fine, since the that is where the company gets their money.

That doesn't sound fair to me. Am I the only one who thinks this way? Here we are again, where the average person is left holding the bag and the executives get off free.

And just what will the government do with the money? That should be defined.

The individuals at fault should have to pay a substantial fine. That would fulfill the purpose of punishment, which is to hold them accountable. If the money comes out of the company coffers, that will affect the workers since it is less money for investment, operations, payroll, pensions, etc. The workers had no culpability in this.

I don't understand this fine as it is as being a solution...

17 ( +19 / -2 )

involve money Ghosn could have received in the future after retirement.

See that Ghosn even not yet receive that money yet. How about recent scandals that actually took place, from Japan post insurance selling fraud and Kansai Electric Power gift scandal, how much they fine they got?

20 ( +21 / -1 )

That would mean the customers who bought Nissan cars would be paying the fine, since the that is where the company gets their money.

No, that doesn't make sense. Nissan will pay from their profits. So while the source of the money is sales of their products, the money will come from Nissan directly.

That doesn't sound fair to me. Am I the only one who thinks this way? Here we are again, where the average person is left holding the bag

Well no, no one is forced to buy Nissan. There is plenty of competition. If Nissan were to bump their prices to pay for the fine, they'd lose sales, since consumers have other options.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

That would mean the customers who bought Nissan cars would be paying the fine, since the that is where the company gets their money.

No, it's meant to be the shareholders. The customers pay the price they accept for a product, depending on the market, no matter the debts or fortune of the company (as you, Tesla sells at loss, while Macdo gives you 2 cents of food for your dollar). Logically, that fine will be taken from the benefits, from the dividends for the shareholders or by selling some assets that belong... to the shareholders. It's not unfair because you own the shop, it's your responsibility to check that it's managed lawfully.

The individuals at fault should have to pay a substantial fine. 

They will. The persons that gave the order to organize the fraud (mostly Ghosn) will be fined. At a lesser extent those that benefited will be asked to pay back overpayment they received and maybe fined (depending on their involvement). And Nissan is suing Ghosn about this, its lawyers will ask enough to cover the fines of the company. And the shareholders in France are suing Ghosn.... He'll be dragging cases for the next decades.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Japanese regulators recommend ¥2.4 bil fine for Nissan

Jail time for Saikawa would be nice

16 ( +16 / -0 )

Kinda sucks to have anything to do with Nissan. lolz

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Not being a whizz in corporate law, but in simple terms it seems strange to be fined for non-disclosure of unpaid monies that may or may not be paid in the future.

Sounds like a collusive effort by authorities to bolster the prosecutors case in the up-coming trial against Ghosn.

12 ( +12 / -0 )

And just what will the government do with the money? That should be defined.

They will use it to buy some crabs and gifts to send to their constituents with the leftover money after a hot springs trip.

Two groups of people in the world; those who rule and those who are ruled.

13 ( +14 / -1 )

Ghosn deserves every yen promised. Saikawa on the other hand...

I still drive Nissans as rentals in the US and have a good impression. My top choice is always Honda however.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

I don't understand this fine as it is as being a solution...

I agree, it sounds like a plea bargin arranged with the prosecutors since "the company already agreed?" What did Nissan admit to? Only making a mistake?

6 ( +6 / -0 )

"money Ghosn could have received in the future after retirement."

Money that was never defined nor determined nor actually even promised. Sounds like a railroading! A could-have-done act is NOT a crime.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Merely an operating expense, probably a tax right off too, no real penalty for those who deserve the punishment for lying, cheating, stealing and being general pieces of well you know what.

Those involved should be sent to prison, stripped of their titles and entitlements and made examples of , that would be justice, this fining the company BS is an easy out.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

But not for Saikawa, everything he did was fine /s

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Ghosn's lawyers say the allegations are a result of trumped-up charges rooted in a conspiracy among Nissan, government officials and prosecutors to oust Ghosn to prevent a fuller merger with Nissan's alliance partner, Renault SA of France.

I’m more enclosed to believe the above paragraph than anything the government and prosecutors say. The whole flipping system is corrupt

6 ( +7 / -1 )

but in simple terms it seems strange to be fined for non-disclosure of unpaid monies that may or may not be paid in the future.

amazing isn't it , in Japan you can be accused of fraud even if you didn't receive any monies or compensation for the accusation of that fraud, seems like the J government is trying its best to manufacture evidence so it doesn't look like draconian legal system that it has. Considering that  Saikawa who did receive compensation from Nissan even when they under reported it, Ghosn should be allowed to bow and walk away just like Saikawa!? Seriously and Japanese wonder why gaijin continually state that many parts of Japanese society lacks common sense and logic, or maybe they think that "this is Japan" excuse is somehow separate of common sense and logic!?

11 ( +12 / -1 )

This seems to be more evidence that the whole situation was just an administrative issue.

Nissan say that Ghosn was contractually due a certain amount of remuneration (now and/or in the future). Nissan didn’t properly submit those values.

Ghosn says that he didn’t declare certain amounts because he hadn’t received them.

So, fine the company for misfiling their accounts.

Fine Ghosn for misfiling his accounts.

It really is simple.

Although we all know the real reason was far more nefarious on Nissan’s part.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

A could-have-done act is NOT a crime.

hey were talking about the Japanese legal system here, where you can be held indefinitely in prison until they force a confession from you, "could-have-done" is as good as has-done in the eyes of J prosecution

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Sounds like a collusive effort by authorities to bolster the prosecutors case in the up-coming trial against Ghosn.

it called manufacturing evidence, even manufactured evidence has a problem with defying logic and reason, in most 1st world democratic nations a judge would laugh you out of the court room, but Japan a Judge isnt independent of the government prosecution so it just gives you the illusion of justice.

I love it when Japanese are shown the illogic nature of many of their decisions, the only reply you get is a shrug of the shoulders and "this is Japan"

7 ( +8 / -1 )

The Japanese Legal system is third rate and full of gaping holes. It falls short of logical reasoning. What’s more disturbing is the way Japan entrapped Ghosn. Luring a person to a board meeting only to arrest him at the airport is a clear indication there was a conspiracy. If Japan and Nissan felt Ghosn truly broke the law, tell him and then extradite him from France. Don’t make up fictitious meetings and bogus reasons why he needs to be there. Very disappointed in Japan about this.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

The Japanese Legal system is third rate and full of gaping holes. It falls short of logical reasoning. What’s more disturbing is the way Japan entrapped Ghosn. Luring a person to a board meeting only to arrest him at the airport is a clear indication there was a conspiracy. If Japan and Nissan felt Ghosn truly broke the law, tell him and then extradite him from France. Don’t make up fictitious meetings and bogus reasons why he needs to be there. Very disappointed in Japan about this.

It called "a Pearl Harbour Tactic".

5 ( +6 / -1 )

At least one good thing came out from all this theatre.

Since Goshn was “kidnapped” by the local authorities their draconian laws and anti-gaijin unfair laws with prejudice got exposed to the democratic world.

Now most westerners will think not twice but even more to get a leading position job position in Japan.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Nissan makes a good car. I have had six or seven over the years and we love our Cube at the moment. I am aware that the good workers at Nissan have traditionally suffered long hours with minimal pay, so like some of the posters above I sure hope that this fine will not be used as an excuse to squeeze them even harder, affecting their salaries, bonuses and livelihoods.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Now most westerners will think not twice but even more to get a leading position job position in Japan.

At least now, Westerners in high position jobs in Japan are ready for it. Now we all know how digusting rule of law / law is in Japan.

Have a good lawyer, like Ghosn's lawyer. They are few and far between in Japan, but they are there.

Whatever happens to Ghosn, Japans legal system has made a complete fool of itself, with the excuse "this is Japan" just not washing anymore.

... and by the way. Never trust Japanese when they smile too much.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

PS In my experience working in Japan, something like this will come up at the next meeting and the whole sorry affair will be handed down to affect everyone's paychecks immediately.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The prosecutors really didn't think about this.

Saikawa got off Scot free for exactly if not more belligerent cash grab. Nissan is a tainted brand best to avoid it. It's poison.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The prosecutors really didn't think about this.

Saikawa got off Scot free for exactly if not more belligerent cash grab. Nissan is a tainted brand best to avoid it. It's poison.

Japan is becoming poison unless it drastically does something about it's legal system and legal system mindset.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Too cheap, Nissan must & the Japanese gov. must learn that if they are in their correct intergrity, no foreigners can cheat in the accounting system without any Japanese. This is Japan, every thing is in Japanese language. Attacking Carlos really dumb for Nissan .History is not kind to any entity , that trys to play god.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

2014-7 is well after the introduction of the 'JSOX Compliance' (Financial instruments and Exchange Law) whereby external auditors have to approve financial statements and internal controls.

The under-reported compensation was for money Ghosn may have received post-retirement if he were to take on a consulting role at Nissan.

A company that large would surely have had professional advice telling them whether or not they needed to disclose these as yet unreceived amounts within the financial years under scrutiny. (I believe that only currently payable compensation has to be reported anyhow)

Ironically, this non-disclosure that Nissan is currently facing fines for, was fed by them to the prosecutors in order to get Ghosn arrested in the first place.

Nissan is said to have around eight layers of internal compliance, meaning numerous parties were aware of the future income. If the income should have been reported, why are only Ghosn (and Kelly) being charged? If the income doesn't have to be disclosed....why was this one of the first charges Ghosn faced?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Recommended? I recommend you actually fine them and put Saikawa on trial (and not allowed to contact his wife) for the same crimes Ghosn is accused of.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

This is the icing on the cake with this whole fiasco... and nothing but mud on Japan Inc.'s face

3 ( +4 / -1 )

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