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U.S. judge allows extradition of 2 men accused of aiding Ghosn escape from Japan

73 Comments
By ALANNA DURKIN RICHER

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73 Comments

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Would not want to be in their shoes. Seems Ghosn's escape has ruined many lives.

26 ( +33 / -7 )

It seems beyond the capacity for some people to understand that the Taylors and Ghosn may really deserve prison time.

The reasons of the judge may be found at the below link:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.223139/gov.uscourts.mad.223139.81.0_1.pdf

But for those who want to cling onto "hope", let it be known an appeal has already been filed. I don't give it much chance, but:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.223139/gov.uscourts.mad.223139.83.0.pdf

-9 ( +15 / -24 )

Well done, judge

-12 ( +19 / -31 )

As expected.

12 ( +19 / -7 )

Japanese Prosecuters must be happy, it's a win of sorts. But the story is not over. I will wait a little more.

7 ( +16 / -9 )

@Kazuaki Shimazaki

Ghosn was not found guilty yet and despite in most countries, innoncent until proven guilty is honoured, it is not honoured in Japan. He was being kept behind bars just because of the Prosecutors, hostage justice and media, who made him guilty in the public's eyes ("he is in TV, he looks angry, so it must be true!"). Later he was "released". If he did not have a chance for a fair trial, then I he did what he had to do.

Was he guilty or not, has he done the things he is being accused of? I don't know, I am not the judge. But that is a different question

The other person is Marc Cavazos. He didn't get media coverage, but his story is even more insane. And HE had to prove HE was innoncent. Not the police, judge or prosecutors. HE.

10 ( +25 / -15 )

“This distinguished former member of the U.S. Army Special Forces and his son did not commit any crime and are being pursued by Japan in an effort to save face 

That pretty much sums it up. The article also mentions that what they are accused of is not an offense in Japan. If these two are extradited to Japan they will be thrown in a deep dark hole forever without a charge.

7 ( +25 / -18 )

Welcome to Japan Peter Taylor and Michael Taylor. Soon you will be sitting in a Japanese jail eating cup of noodles, while Ghosn is living it up in Lebanon. How long will you last before you give up Ghosn's wife or one one of his kids to save your own neck?. I hope you like sleeping on futons on the floor you maybe sleeping on the floor for the rest of your life.

-1 ( +23 / -24 )

If anyone thinks these men are getting "life" you are mistaken. Do you inow how tough these guys are? Have you read about their history? These guys are tough as rocks. The puny little prosecutor won't phase these men. They have been highly trained..they were not some measly little JSDF soldier or whatever you call them. I wouldn't be surprised if they escape "custody".

-5 ( +20 / -25 )

“This distinguished former member of the U.S. Army Special Forces.

The senior Taylor has already done time in the US for defrauding the government. He's a distinguished convicted felon.

10 ( +22 / -12 )

Good. I'm glad they are going to pay for their crime.

-9 ( +18 / -27 )

Robert CikkiToday  04:44 pm JST

@Kazuaki Shimazaki

Ghosn was not found guilty yet and despite in most countries, innoncent until proven guilty is honoured, it is not honoured in Japan. He was being kept behind bars just because of the Prosecutors, hostage justice and media, who made him guilty in the public's eyes ("he is in TV, he looks angry, so it must be true!"). Later he was "released". If he did not have a chance for a fair trial, then I he did what he had to do.

He was not tried, convicted and sentenced. He was not put into a penitentiary without a trial. He was held, like everyone else who charged, simply awaiting his court date. But after being released on bail he chose to jump bail. As an excuse he cited the conditions where he was held, the very same conditions that everyone else who is charged must deal with until their court date. Only a person who is certain of not being able to prove his innocence would jump bail and forfeit his "day in court".

Was he guilty or not, has he done the things he is being accused of? I don't know, I am not the judge. But that is a different question

That's right. By jumping bail and becoming a fugitive, he ensured that no one will ever know.

The other person is Marc Cavazos. He didn't get media coverage, but his story is even more insane. And HE had to prove HE was innoncent. Not the police, judge or prosecutors. HE.

News Flash, The Defendant always has to prove his innocence, not the plaintiff. It's the job of the Prosecution to prove his guilt. Neither the Police nor Judge prove guilt or innocence. This is true in every court in every country in the world. Maybe on your fantasy planet the prosecution's job is is to prove the defendant's innocence. But not on Earth.

-9 ( +17 / -26 )

Kazuaki Shimazaki

It seems beyond the capacity for some people to understand that the Taylors and Ghosn may really deserve prison time.

Typical of the Japan Injustice system and its blind supporters -- you deserve prison time even before you're found guilty.

16 ( +25 / -9 )

Will they be able to receive a trial?

11 ( +16 / -5 )

@OssanAmericaToday 05:29 pm JST

Only a person who is certain of not being able to prove his innocence would jump bail[...]

The Defendant always has to prove his innocence, not the plaintiff. 

He doesn't need to prove anything. He is INOCENT until the justice proves otherwise.

Why is the premise of innocence so difficult to understand for this people?!

It's a sad day indeed. I feel for the Taylors.

14 ( +22 / -8 )

OssanAmericaToday 05:29 pm JST

News Flash, The Defendant always has to prove his innocence, not the plaintiff. It's the job of the Prosecution to prove his guilt. Neither the Police nor Judge prove guilt or innocence. This is true in every court in every country in the world. Maybe on your fantasy planet the prosecution's job is is to prove the defendant's innocence. But not on Earth.

News Flash, it's Presumption of innocence aka innocent until proven guilty. I don't know which country or fantasy planet are you from, but the defendant does not need to prove his innoncence. It's up to the system to prove the defendant is guilty. In here, you are first guilty thanks to the 人質司法 and that suspects can be held for up to 23 days without being charged (and then for another and another 23 days, basically no limit). Another fine example is Kelly Luce (Kawasaki Kmart).

Btw, try https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/ , article 11. Sure, not legaly binding for a judicial system in every country.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

Oh no. Rice, marching and no space. Here comes Covid to the JP incarceration system.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

@Kazuaki Shimazaki

Yes, I've seen the interview and followed it since the beginning.

I get what you are saying. I am not saying he has not or he has received the meth. I wasn't there. Maybe he really was the receiver of the meth. I don't care.

But he has held in jail first without being actually charged. There is other video of him explaining how new and new charges were being made and dismissed and always after being released and leaving the police office, he got cuffed again.

In the end, he spent time in jail, had to prove he was innoncent in order to get out.

Japan is considered as a developed country, but the judicial system is like in the middle ages.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

He would not have received a fair trial, guilty or not, in Japan. He kind of fed Gregg Kelly to the wolves, which is pretty low. Japanese prosecutors will spend years building up a case and then attack you.

1 ( +8 / -7 )

I get what you are saying. I am not saying he has not or he has received the meth. I wasn't there. Maybe he really was the receiver of the meth. I don't care.

Good luck reasoning with hardcore Japan injustice system supporters. They don't budge even after being bitten in the face by facts.

12 ( +19 / -7 )

If they let him be with his wife and family, maybe he wouldn’t have felt the need to flee Japan. Fudge, they wouldn’t even allow him to have virtual contact with his family. If I had the financial means, I probably would have done the same thing.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

If anyone thinks these men are getting "life" you are mistaken. Do you inow how tough these guys are? Have you read about their history? These guys are tough as rocks. The puny little prosecutor won't phase these men.

Okay, calm down with the bold words there.

I feel sorry for them. I hope the best for them, but fear the Japanese prosecutors will make up some bs charge, and they will be in jail for several years for no reason other than the prosecutors have been badly embarrassed.

They MIGHT get off if they don't confess to anything and simply get lucky.

I wouldn't be surprised if they escape "custody".

No. Doubtful, and even if they did, that is a clear crime in Japan and will earn them more time.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Were these 2 guys so frustrated with Japanese Justice as to decide to aid Ghosn to escape?

5 ( +8 / -3 )

It's pretty disgusting, the one sided special treatment the US legal system gives Japan. If this situation was reversed we know there is no way Japan would extradite one of their own to the US. The fact that we even have an extradition treaty with them is offensive.

11 ( +18 / -7 )

These are the cases as a EU citizen that the European Union doesn’t have such ties with Japan and so we don’t have any extradition contract,these two guys will be fed for the media and (in)justice system in order to keep the witch hunt and diverge all attention from Japanese Nissan managers which simply retired or kept a low profile.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Very sad decision.

6 ( +13 / -7 )

they can’t be extradited because they say what they are accused of isn’t a crime under Japan law.

They didn't break any Japanese laws I don't understand how they can be extradited?

2 ( +10 / -8 )

Finally. I don't really pity them considering they accepted cash to do these kind of things. Did they really expect to make use of the loopholes in the law to escape from extraction? They knew the risk when they accepted the job. Now it seems the money offered was not worth all of this trouble. What sad is that all these people were all completely abandon by Ghosn after his escape. It's sure is nice to be filthy rich. The rich can always get tons of greedy people to help them.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

With an appeal to the next higher court, and then an appeal to the Supreme Court, most of the million dollars that Mr Ghosn paid them will have been spent on their attorneys. And if it was the Trump administration State Dept that approved the extradition, no doubt the attorneys will start making the rounds with the Biden team up to Mr. Blinken.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

To Ghosn supporters:

An innocent person doesn't run from the law.

France has problems with him too not just Japan.

More and more evidence is coming out his corrupt, guilty, shady practices. Including his escape. You don't hear innocent CEO doing this.

If your a foreigner who's offered a high end job in Japan as a CEO, if you don't agree with the laws here then DON'T COME! DON'T TAKE THE JOB!

-2 ( +14 / -16 )

Japans disgusting legal system should be laid out in front of the Curcuit Judges, along with the UN report into Ghosn's ilegal detention.

Japans contempt of the UN should also be taken into account, along with Japans Justice Ministers (who had to be reminded 3 times that the constitution of Japan assumes innocent until proven guilty) appauling attitude.

If they are extradited, at least it will get widely reported, and everybody will start to realise that Japans prosecutors are just cowardly little hostage takers, which Japans pathetic little judges will endorse.

Incidently, I think that Lebanon should seize Japanese assets (like Sk has done) to the value of his bail money, plus compensation he is owed for his ilegal detention.

-2 ( +10 / -12 )

they can’t be extradited because they say what they are accused of isn’t a crime under Japan law.

They didn't break any Japanese laws I don't understand how they can be extradited?

(Harboring of Criminals)

Article 103 A person who harbors or enables the escape of another person who has either committed a crime punishable with a fine or greater punishment or has escaped from confinement shall be punished by imprisonment with work for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more than 200,000 yen.

I am not a lawyer but that pretty much sums up what they did.

The Taylors argue argue that jumping bail isn't a crime. However breaching bail conditions is a crime

(Code of Criminal Procedure)

(3) When the court grants bail, it may specify the residence of the accused or add other appropriate conditions to the bail.

If i recall correctly Ghosn was restricted by his bail conditions in his movements, people he could see and his place of residence.

In short Ghosn committed a new crime when he breached his bail conditions and then the Taylors committed a crime when they harboured him and helped him escape.

However you want to see it a crime is still a crime even if the reasons behind it may be justifiable if you do the crime you gotta expect to do the time.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Appalling decision. These men have to return to the third world. Shame on you, Japan.

2 ( +8 / -6 )

To Ghosn supporters:

Unlike the Japan Injustice System fanatics, there are ZERO Ghosn supporters. We are against the injustice, ridiculousness, and antiquity of the "justice" system in this country. It just happens that Ghosn is famous, but we react the same way to any other victims of injustice.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Seems that nasty piece of Nada at Nissan and his co-conspirators have set in motion events that have ruined many lives.

Hopefully their own, too.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Like father, like son. Enjoy your stay in Japan. But don’t expect too much. You’re not going to be served sushi every day.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

Was he guilty or not, has he done the things he is being accused of? I don't know, I am not the judge. But that is a different question

That's right. By jumping bail and becoming a fugitive, he ensured that no one will ever know.

We will know. I look forward to reading his book.

To my mind. The word of Carlos Ghosn overides the word of anybody connected to Japans justice system.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Typical...Japanese Govt just trying to cover up their embarrassment over their ridiculous legal system. What a joke.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Very unfair that the victims.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

USA gotta keep Japan happy...by punishing two people who could not be more IN-SIGNIFICANT!!!!!!!!

Can't get your "prize" Japan....then go after...well...nothing!!!! What a crappy justice system in japan...!!

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Whoa - "under-reported his future income" is against the law in Japan? I always under report future income. My goal is to be correct when the income actually arrives, but never in advance.

Looks like these men will be held in jail for years, since they won't answer questions from police and I seriously doubt the J-Cops actually have 100% proof they did anything wrong. The case is circumstantial, even if they did it.

An innocent person doesn't run from the law.

They do when it is certain that a fair trial isn't possible. How many years can Japan lock up someone as they attempt to build a case? https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/secrecy/you-may-have-nothing-hide-you-still-have-something-fear

A lawyer friend told me never to answer police questions unless the crime caused me damage. Bad police are trying to close the case, not necessarily get to the truth. I want to believe those are the same things, but they aren't always. He said that if I needed to answer questions for some reason, the safest answer was "I have no clear memory about that."

Is the sky blue? I have no clear memory about that.

Did you under-report future income? I have no clear memory about that.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

"This distinguished former member of the U.S. Army Special Forces and his son did not commit any crime and are being pursued by Japan in an effort to save face 

That pretty much sums it”

NO, it certainly does not.

That line comes from the Defence; that is why they are there being paid handsomely; i.e. to lie for England, in this case for Ghosn.

Bail jumping is a crime EVERYWHERE.

Aiding and abetting is a crime EVERYWHERE!

Love Ghosn all you like; hate Japan with all your guts to see if many people other than you cares.

However, a crime has been committed.

No amount of sophistry will erase this FACT.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

Uh, his is why GPS ankle bracelets and other monitoring devices were invented...

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Great news !!!..

Two criminals helped big criminal Ghosn escape Japanese justice, they will face Japan justice and pay for their crime..

Sorry Ghosnbelievers, you can support this criminal and hate Japan, but remember, sooner or later that big fat rat criminal will fall, justice will be served !!..

5 ( +11 / -6 )

"The men’s lawyers, which included former Trump White House attorney Ty Cobb,"

Nuff said!

I rest my case.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

"The elder Taylor was experienced with sticky situations. . The last assignment had landed him in a Utah jail for 14 months, caught in a federal contract fraud case that upended Taylor's family and finances before he agreed to plead guilty to two charges."

Luveley.

"It's not clear yet how Ghosn hooked up with Taylor."

It's pretty clear to me.

Birds of a feather and all that.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Seems Ghosn's escape has ruined many lives.

All of which got paid handsomely to take the risk.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Whoa - "under-reported his future income" is against the law in Japan? I always under report future income. My goal is to be correct when the income actually arrives, but never in advance.

His future income was never decided, he even consult about this with other expert beside his lawyer.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/08/cnbc-transcript-former-nissan-executive-carlos-ghosn-speaks-with-cnbcs-michelle-caruso-cabrera-today.html

0 ( +4 / -4 )

His future income was never decided, he even consult about this with other expert beside his lawyer.

No proof he commited any crime and

Let's see - detained for over 100 days - in jail. Under house arrest for 10 more months at home + $9 million bail, unable to communicate with his wife. Is that legal?

I see claims that he under reported earnings by 50%. If that is the situation, how hard can it be to prove? Either they have proof or they don't. Were they holding out for a confession? With the amount of money involved, there would be a paper trail somewhere or stacks of cash in his home.

This smells pretty bad.

Is there no right to a speedy trial in Japan?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

There goes any chance these two men will receive a fair trial. Justice is not served in the Japanese system, it is bastardized.

Foul.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

@JerseyDevil,

Have to agree with you, those guys more than likely will be toast, and know how it feels to be non white in America to the fullest.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

The Japanese industrial prison complex is not designed for the most part for non Japanese, and those guys probably wont be able to adapt in it. I'ts probably better for the Japanese to determine the prison sentences, and let them serve it in the US federal prison system, like they usually do for US military people who commit felony crimes in Japan.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Anyone notice. All who helped Ghosn Are being rounded up for punishment while Ghosn lives it up in Lebanon. I was all for his escape but since then I realized while plants were being closed and people were being laid off at Nissan, he was rewarding himself

8 ( +9 / -1 )

Only a person who is certain of not being able to prove his innocence would jump bail and forfeit his "day in court".

Logic failure. It’s amazing how far you’re willing to try and bend logic to defend everything Japan.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

@ Lamilly

"I realized while plants were being closed and people were being laid off at Nissan,"

wait till the pushback over this case gets on with those powerful white enmity groups , it could result in jp profits total demise.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"

wait till the pushback over this case gets on with those powerful white enmity groups , it could result in jp profits total demise."

That's how america rolls historically, take a small L then wait and dish out a huge L later.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@Btang, Biden will bide his time on this one.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

bokudaJan. 29  05:42 pm JST

@OssanAmericaToday 05:29 pm JST

Only a person who is certain of not being able to prove his innocence would jump bail[...]

*The Defendant *always has to prove his innocence, not the plaintiff. 

He doesn't need to prove anything. He is INOCENT until the justice proves otherwise.

Why is the premise of innocence so difficult to understand for this people?!

You and many others have zero experience in court proceedings. The concept of "Innocent until proven guilty" does not mean the Defendant does nothing while the Plaintiff proves guilt. If the Defendant did nothing when the Plaintiff presented their argument, Defendant would lose by default. The Judge would rule in Plaintiff's favor. By answering the Plaintoff's charges the Defendant proves his innocence.

The concept means that a person who is charged can not be treated as guilty until he has been tried. Ghosn was not treated as guilty, as much as he wants everyone to believe. He was treated the same way as everyone else who was charged and awaiting trial. He just couldn't handle it as he was used to living in luxury.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

@ossanamerica

does not mean the Defendant does nothing while the Plaintiff proves guilt. If the Defendant did nothing when the Plaintiff presented their argument, Defendant would lose by default

don't you know that the guilt must be proved beyond any doubt?

don't you know that we are all innocent by default? every baby that comes into your world is gilty by default?

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

You and many others have zero experience in court proceedings.

You make this statement bad then go on to demonstrate your complete ignorance of court proceedings in a criminal matter.

The concept of "Innocent until proven guilty" does not mean the Defendant does nothing while the Plaintiff proves guilt. If the Defendant did nothing when the Plaintiff presented their argument, Defendant would lose by default. The Judge would rule in Plaintiff's favor. By answering the Plaintoff's charges the Defendant proves his innocence.*

Absolutely incorrect. The defendant does not need to answer the charges beyond pleading not guilty. After that, it is 100% the responsibility of prosecutors to prove the defendant’s guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. The defendant has no affirmative obligation to rebut the prosecutions case.

I have witness multiple criminal trials and litigated one myself in which the defendant presented no evidence and was found innocent.

It’s sad that you allow your uncritical love of Japan to cloud your judgment.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

The concept means that a person who is charged can not be treated as guilty until he has been tried.

No, it doesn’t. Further evidence of your ignorance of the justice system.

Ghosn was not treated as guilty, as much as he wants everyone to believe. He was treated the same way as everyone else who was charged and awaiting trial. He just couldn't handle it as he was used to living in luxury.

All criminal suspects in Japan are treated as guilty until they prove their innocence. This does not support your erroneous assertion that suspects can be treated as guilty until they have been found guilty at trial; it merely demonstrates how backwards Japan’s “justice” system is and your inability to view anything related to Japan in an objective manner.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

I think Japanese justice is less about" innocent until proven guilty" and more about "guilty until you can prove your innocence."

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

To Ghosn supporters:

An innocent person doesn't run from the law.

It's more nuanced than that. You are gravely oversimplifying this.

France has problems with him too not just Japan.

Yeah, and? French persecutors recently visited ghosn in Lebanon to question him. He met with them and answered their questions. Didn't run away did he?

More and more evidence is coming out his corrupt, guilty, shady practices. Including his escape. You don't hear innocent CEO doing this.

What evidence? Post it here for all of us to see. If it's evidence you should have no trouble posting specifics. Instead you just remain vague. And are you conveniently forgetting that that guys like hiroto saikawa ADMITTED to accusations of overcompensation yet was barely touched by the prosecutors? Explain THAT to us.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

What evidence? Post it here for all of us to see.

It's obvious that lot of people hate Japan first then play armchair lawyer later.

Auto executive-turned-fugitive Carlos Ghosn is under investigation in France for possible tax evasion during his last three years heading Renault SA and Nissan Motor Co., according to a person familiar with the matter.

(news source)

Now how about France?

How about the armchair lawyers who know a lot about the corrupt French legal system?

Is France also being unfair to Ghosn? Please sound out armchair lawyers, I mean the ones who specialize in the French legal system. Because it seems we have lots and lots of armchair legal specialists who are certain and would bet their lives on how certain they know about how bad the Japanese legal system is treating Ghosn. Now France?

9 ( +11 / -2 )

And are you conveniently forgetting that that guys like hiroto saikawa ADMITTED to accusations of overcompensation yet was barely touched by the prosecutors? Explain THAT to us.

Is U.S. District Judge Indira Talwani aware of this? Then maybe she will understand and rescind the extradition. Maybe it would be good to FedEx this legal briefing to Talwani's chambers this valuable evidence that clearly exonerates everyone in Ghosn's group.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

@nishikat

Now how about France?

I love bagettes, espressos and the Moulin Rouge.

Can we get back to topic now?

@Lorem ipsum

And are you conveniently forgetting that that guys like hiroto saikawa ADMITTED to accusations of overcompensation yet was barely touched by the prosecutors? Explain THAT to us.

Not only Hiroto Saikawa, also Toshiyuki Shiga, Hari Nada and Toshiaki Ohnuma.

All admitted guilt, but all of them are free without charges.

Any explanation?

-7 ( +3 / -10 )

Can we get back to topic now?

I am. This is about the American legal situation and what a US judge is doing (not a Japanese judge). And what a US judge would do to Ghosn. This focus is on a non-US system.

Any explanation?

Yes, possibly. One armchair said (and I'm serious) that the Olympic committee collaborated with the Japanese police to frame Ghosn. How about that explanation?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Now how about France?

How about the armchair lawyers who know a lot about the corrupt French legal system?

France doesn’t utilize hostage justice. The French justice system is actually about justice and not simply convictions, which means Ghosn would get a fair trial.

Nobody gets a fair trial in Japan. The cards are stacked far too heavily in favor of the government in Japan.

Shall we continue this discussion?

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

The cards are stacked far too heavily in favor of the government in Japan.

The beginning of the story is U.S. judge. It seems a US judge is holding these people in the US hostage, not the Japanese system. How is Japan a hostage system technically?

The cards are stacked far too heavily in favor of the government in Japan.

Yes, same in the USA, actually in the USA it's more extreme with prosecution - that's their job and the job of (see title of this story) Judge Indira Talwani who is also going after this case of Ghosn.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

a US judge is holding these people in the US hostage, not the Japanese system.

oooh! how wrong are you.

Hostage justice is when you're tortured, in solitary confinement, no contact with people, long hours of questioning everyday without lawyer present to get a forced confession, indefinite detention time, etc.

What similarities do you find with the US system?

-9 ( +1 / -10 )

It's obvious that lot of people hate Japan first then play armchair lawyer later.

Auto executive-turned-fugitive Carlos Ghosn is under investigation in France for possible tax evasion during his last three years heading Renault SA and Nissan Motor Co., according to a person familiar with the matter.

(news source)

Now how about France?

How about the armchair lawyers who know a lot about the corrupt French legal system?

Is France also being unfair to Ghosn? Please sound out armchair lawyers, I mean the ones who specialize in the French legal system. Because it seems we have lots and lots of armchair legal specialists who are certain and would bet their lives on how certain they know about how bad the Japanese legal system is treating Ghosn. Now France?

I don't understand what you are trying to prove with this. It only says French authorities are investigating him for POSSIBLE fraud. In other words, nothing has been proven to suggest he is guilty. And that isn't even the point of the previous user who I quoted. He was arguing that if someone flees, they must be guilty. Ghosn fled from Japan, but not from French authorities. So by that logic, he should be innocent, which is obviously totally flawed logic. The point here is not whether he is innocent or guilty. The point is he was presumed guilty in japan from the start and treated as such even before the trial, while japanese employees at nissan who actually admitted guilt weren't touched.

Not only Hiroto Saikawa, also Toshiyuki Shiga, Hari Nada and Toshiaki Ohnuma.

All admitted guilt, but all of them are free without charges.

Any explanation?

Yeah, i know. That's why i said guys "like" saikawa as it includes others too. But as for hari nada, i believe prosecutors made a deal with him not to prosecute him in exchange for cooperating with their investigation.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

*The beginning of the story is U.S. judge. It seems a US judge is holding these people in the US hostage, not the Japanese system. How is Japan a hostage system technically?*

We are pointing out the extreme flaws in the Japanese “justice” system and how these two will not receive a fair trial in Japan. You are complaining about it.

Japan utilizes hostage justice by detaining suspects in a single charge for as long as possible and then adding another charge to extend the detention. Lawyers aren’t allowed during interrogations and interrogations aren’t recorded as a matter of routine. That’s how Japan is a hostage system technically.

*Yes, same in the USA, actually in the USA it's more extreme with prosecution - that's their job and the job of (see title of this story) Judge Indira Talwani who is also going after this case of Ghosn.*

It is the prosecutions job in every country to prosecute.

What exactly is your complaint? Are you seriously trying to convince us that the Japanese “justice” system is equal to or superior to the system in America? Are you seriously trying to convince us that these two will receive a fair shake in Japan?

-9 ( +2 / -11 )

This is a failure of logic

I was talking to a person who was convinced that the Olympic committee is collaborating with the Japanese authorities to arrest Ghosn.

Under Japanese law, you may be arrested and detained without bail for 48 hours by the police on suspicion of having committed a crime. During this period, the police are required to inform you of the crime of which you are suspected, of your right to remain silent, of your right to hire a lawyer at your own expense, of your right to request a court-appointed lawyer, and of your right to have the Embassy or the Consulate notified of your arrest.

(US embassy page)

Where is it torture?

7 ( +9 / -2 )

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