crime

Man held for punching 50-yr-old woman on Saitama train over playing games on cell phone

134 Comments

A 21-year-old man was arrested for assault on Wednesday, accused of punching a 50-year-old woman several times in her face, breaking her jaw, while on a Saikyo line train and in a train station office Wednesday morning, police said Thursday.

Police said Jun Ando, a computer programmer and resident of Toda City, became angry on the train bound for Shinkiba at around 8 a.m., after the woman asked him to stop playing games on his cell phone as the train was so crowded. Ando told her to shut up and sprayed her with some colorful language, before punching her several times.

He was restrained by several passengers until the train stopped at Toda Park station, where they escorted him off the train. They took him to the station office, but while in there with the woman and station staff, he punched the woman again, police said.

Ando admitted to assaulting the woman but told police there’s not much he can do about the crowded trains.

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and sprayed her with some colorful language

Rather colorful in itself, I'd say.

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he needs anger management and some soap to wash out his mouth. and a straitjacket too next time he get on a crowded train

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I guess she won't be doing any complaining to cell phone users in the future?

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The Saikyo-sen is packed full of chikans and lunatics from Saitama.

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The train cars need signal blocking - much as I understand is done in some hospitals AND an externally and centrally controlled Off switch for these devices. It annoys me that people now assume that it is OK to extend their body on crowded trains by holding their cell phones/game players in front of them, and in the process, poking me in various locations. It is almost enough to make me want to eat undercooked beans.

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Classy chap. We'll see how much he enjoys getting punched in the clink.

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OMG. I wonder what did the woman say to him...that cost her a broken jaw?..poor woman. She should be more careful next time. Get off the train rather than complaining...:)

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that guy should have been linched long before the police arrived.

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That last sentence is priceless.

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OH MY GOD, I am so shocked that "once again" a man beats up a woman (sarcasm to the tenth degree).

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Stop hating on the gamers! lol. Damn, not sure what this guy is thinking, but I bet that old lady was asking for it too. He deserves to get hit the same, but some of these old people are off the chain.

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i still don't get the uproar over using a cell phone on the train. i mean, if you are talking in a normal conversational tone, why bother with it? why not go after something that actually impacts others, like drunk, un hygenic, half asleep salarymen? i'd rather hear someone's convo than be in the same car as some of these "men" who refuse to acknowledge the existence of soap...

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Not really surprised. I have an extremely long fuse, but these packed trains can drive one nuts. They have a rule for everything in this country except how many people you can stuff into a train. Some items that annoy me on a train are the constant and unrelenting farting of these salarymen, people breathing on my neck (never happens in the US), and the freaking masks!

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Well, given the time he won't be able to use the old "I was drunk and don't remember" routine. Feel sorry for the woman, but glad fellow passengers helped out. Sounds like the station staff need a refresher in containing a suspect.

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Man....This guy didn't care about what is going to happen. He should have done that when he was 19 and he wouldn't ge going to jail. Kids today need to be taught respect. Maybe it should be a subject in school.

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This guy must be one of the 24% of adults with mental problems, hey? That's one in four! In a train carriage with 100 people in it 24 of them are not quite right in the head. Scary!

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You posters saying she should be careful or to watch what she says.....SHE'S 50!!! WTF!!! This dude would get beat down, no escort to the office...he'd be beaten the whole way there. Just like another post on the other two losers.....punk @$$ individuals picking on weak.

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mind you I think it's high time more Japanese people spoke out about their miserable lot in life..this ain't a city fit for living yo

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I bet he felt "wearry stwong after beating up an old rady."

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"The train cars need signal blocking . . . "

This wouldn't be very effective since many games are downloaded applications that operate from the phone unit itself.

" . . . people now assume that it is OK to extend their body on crowded trains by holding their cell phones/game players in front of them . . . "

If it wasn't cell phones, it'd be Nintendo DSs, or newspapers, or manga, or make-up mirrors. The problem here isn't the existence of cell phones. It's the existence of asshats, like this 21-year old. No manners, no respect, no consideration at all for those around them, blithely and selfishly bumbling through life as if they are the only one in existence, and then having the audacity to act outraged when someone calls them on it.

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They should re-name this line the Psycho Line. I travel on it regularly, and it is notorious for wierdos, of all sorts - especially chikan. This case illustrates that it is grossly overcrowded, especially during rush hours. This guy is just one of the many selfish brutes who ought to be locked up, and the key thrown away, before they do more serious violence to ordinary good people like this lady. I sincerely hope that the courts deal with him strictly.

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I kind of see where this guy is coming from, but I would have stopped at spraying her with colorful language, or better yet ignored her completely.

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I bet that old lady was asking for it too....old people are off the chain

Good heavens! I'm 50, and believe me, while I am certainly no spring chicken, I think 'old lady' is going a bit far for my age group :-):-)

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Ando admitted to assaulting the woman but told police there’s not much he can do about the crowded trains.

In other words, he wasn't really trying to punch the lady, but, rather, she got in the way of his arm that he stretched to be more comfortable inside the packed train.

But, surely, the Japanese are the most orderly and well-mannered people on Earth, aren't they? This must have been a rare, isolated incident.

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police there’s not much he can do about the crowded trains

How about having your teeth knocked out...

This is what happens when a whole society doesn't teach the difference between "RIGHT" AND "WRONG." You end up with punks like this, who probably had a completely expense paid university tuition and apart by mom and dad... Sadder yet, will grow up to be 55 year old punks, an accident waiting to happen...

Oh... little Jun-chan... You need some more money so you can buy a PS3..? You need rent money...? Don't worry mommy and daddy will give it to you...

The more you learn about Japan, the less you like it..... What a country..

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TheguyNextdoo: You posters saying she should be careful or to watch what she says.....SHE'S 50!!! WTF!!!

Since turning 50 does not make one Superman, yes, she should be careful what she says. If this guy was causing a problem for her or others, then she was right to say something. However, we have no idea HOW she said it. She might have set him off not by merely asking, but by being a total battle ax about it.

Did I just defend the guy? No I did not. Obviously, he is 100 percent wrong for punching her and deserves severe punishment for it. But that in no way means the woman was correct and smart from start to finish. She made have made a stink over nothing. Not smart. Or she may have provoked him with her choice of words. Not smart and also rude. You never know if a stranger is a nutjob, so tread lightly.

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Sad story. Right or wrong, both parties will have learned a valuable lesson called accountability.

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It was no game. I bet it was a message board and he was posting his intension to rampage through a pedestrian area and then go on a stabbing spree until everything feels all better. Hope they put him away for a while, but don't think it will happen.

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Likeitis

As I always see posted on comments of JT, there is not enough information. I mean the lady didnt get to tell her side of the story, with a broken jaw and all. We only know from the a$$whole that punch the lady and possibly witness's perscpective, which I doubt knew exactly what happened. But hey... maybe I am out place for thinking the whole situation is f'd up.

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The best part is how, after arresting him for punching a 50 year old woman, the cops let him hit her again, back at the koban. HANDCUFFS you morons! HANDCUFFS!!!

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The more you learn about Japan, the less you like it..... What a country..

What a generalization....

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The best part is how, after arresting him for punching a 50 year old woman, the cops let him hit her again, back at the koban. HANDCUFFS you morons! HANDCUFFS!!!

The article doesn't say he had been arrested at that point. It's easy to imagine the koban crowded with the punk, the lady and the station staff all yelling at once and the duty officer trying to get a coherent story out of it all, when the punk loses it again and hits out. It is not standard practice to handcuff anyone and everyone who walks into the koban.

Maybe the duty officer should have tasered everyone to shut them up while he took statements.

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MeanRingo: [...]

It's easy to read through the JT comments to find out that there are as many completely biased, nonobjective minded people as there are weirdos in Japan.

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"Ando admitted to assaulting the woman but told police there’s not much he can do about the crowded trains."

If not for the incident that actually occurred, this could almost be seen as a humourous reply -- although I think it was less intentional and more indicative that the guy has mental problems.

I'm utterly shocked by those on here that suggest that the woman 'should have been more careful', and even one poster saying '...but I bet that old lady was asking for it too.' (IchaWayFare). Likeitis goes on to explain WHY he says the woman should have been more careful, but the fact that such a comment can be justified is sick. I give this woman 100% props for speaking out, albeit over something relatively minor compared even to smoking in a non-smoking place, etc., and this man deserves to be in prison for whatever the maximum sentence for such an assault is. She most certainly did not deserve this in any way.

Japanese people do not speak out enough about people who commit crimes/infractions in front of them; be it when the woman on the Shinkansen was dragged into a toilet and raped and no one said a word, or when people smoke in non-smoking areas, etc. etc. Hence you have people saying, "you should get off the train" rather than speak out, as though the criminal is in the right. At least other passengers on the train subdued the man and took him to police instead of just pretending not to notice. Props to them, too.

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Cleo - if he was suspected of striking the lady and it took two passengers to bring him to the Koban wouldn't you think that they would detain him until they can find everything out. I mean that sounds really simple. But the police gave this guy enough space to hit this old lady again in the face. That is poor police work too.

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This is what happens when a whole society doesn't teach the difference between "RIGHT" AND "WRONG." You end up with punks like this, who probably had a completely expense paid university tuition and apart by mom and dad... Sadder yet, will grow up to be 55 year old punks, an accident waiting to happen... Oh... little Jun-chan... You need some more money so you can buy a PS3..? You need rent money...? Don't worry mommy and daddy will give it to you... The more you learn about Japan, the less you like it..... What a country..

Kind of reminds me of the US! However they just punch you in the face here, in the states you'd probably get knifed/shot.

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The article doesn't say he had been arrested at that point. It's easy to imagine the koban crowded with the punk, the lady and the station staff all yelling at once and the duty officer trying to get a coherent story out of it all, when the punk loses it again and hits out. It is not standard practice to handcuff anyone and everyone who walks into the koban. Maybe the duty officer should have tasered everyone to shut them up while he took statements.

Might I add Cleo that your responses over the last few months is that of a rationale, well grounded person. Keep it up

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There have been many reported cases of people reacting angrily to other people's admonishments in the train. I, as a foreigner, would stay out of any of these litigations because being the country we are in, in the end, the local people fighting each other will apologize to each other and go home free, but your will likely be charged by police if you intervened and somebody gets hurt. Japanese are for themselves basically. I would also move away to another location or just ignore the guy. We can never be winners here, remember that. My last observation is that Korea might lose the title of the "Land of Short Fuses".

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Anybody who thinks it's ok to talk on the phone in a crowded train (as mentioned above), has obviously never been on the Saikyo line at rush hour because that would be ludicrous. Good luck if you can even move your hand to get the phone to your own ear, and your conversation would be directed right into the ears of someone else as your mouth is only centimetres away from other people's heads on a train that packed. A number of times on the Saikyo line I have thought that I was not far off cracking a rib.

Imagine someone jiggling their elbow while playing a game in your ribs, arm or back for 10 minutes or more and you can understand why this lady was annoyed. I also agree that 50 is not old- how old are some of you people, 10? 50 year olds are usually still strong, active adults, not stooped-over elderly people with canes.

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Amazing that the police allowed him to strike the woman again in the police station. The fact that they admit to having allowed this to occur is also amazing. Maybe the police should call the police in this country.

I'll bet this old women got a basket of flowers/fruit/laundry detergent and a teary apology from the 21 year old's mother. I'll also bet that the only person that is truly sorry is this poor woman for opening her mouth.

"It is not standard practice to handcuff anyone and everyone who walks into the koban." ---- we are talking about someone who just assaulted a 50 year old woman and broke her jaw!

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I understand Ando feeling very well every day when i take the train (inokashira line) i want to punch someone. not because they ask me to stop a game or other stupid think like that but only because 30-50 Japanese people has no manner they think that their are king push you are agressive are not able to move they are really painfull.

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but but but. if you dont like the train move by bicycle or scooter. even i understand his feeling i don't agree with his acts.

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Everyone needs to reread the article – unless it has been changed – since it states that the second punch was in the train station office, not a police station.

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It has been my experience that a general respect for ones elders rules interactions in "most" correct teachings of human behavior. To say this person acted in any way correct or reasonable is absurd. This guy is utterly unstable and without reason. Whoever could read the account and find justification for his behavior should be analyzed as well.

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TJrandom is correct - the punch occurred in the station office, not the police station. Those present were the woman and the station staff.

Maybe some people would like railway personnel to be issued with handcuffs to deal with difficult customers.

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I just have to remember that 24% of Japanese have mental problems everytime I am out there. I am sure we all do to some extend, but it is obvious more when you see people staring at their phones every second or they just spend their whole ride feelig their hair and looking at it, then doing it over again.

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I hope the police or when in jail they teach him some manners!

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smithinjapan-I guess you get sick all the time.

I also guess you have never wanted to hit someone. Sorry I am not an angel like you. I guess you also have never come across someone that has come at you wrong or said something you did not like, whether you were in the wrong or not and there is no way you could be wrong. I don't know what was said, but to get the reaction she got, I am assuming it was not nice. But I digress, I was not there to hear her, were you? Nope.

Perception is reality and the way that guy perceived it, well he gave his reaction. For the most part, JNs leave each other alone, leave us alone and just mind their own business. Yeah, they should speak out more, but they don't. I also in no way justify what this guy did, but I sure the hell can understand it. And sorry to the old people who took offense, cause you are only as old as you feel. So I guess some of you are a bit too conscientious about your age.

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I also guess you have never wanted to hit someone.

There's a world of difference between wanting to hit someone and actually hitting them. You don't have to be an angel not to fly off the handle.

I guess you also have never come across someone that has come at you wrong or said something you did not like

Reasonable people do not punch people who say things they don't like. I don't know what you mean by 'come at you wrong', but unless it means 'start punching you first' then that's no reason to engage in fisticuffs, either.

Sticks and stones, folks.

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He went too far, but good for him. Hopefully old people will start thinking twice before opening their mouths and telling people what to do. I've had a few people say things to me on trains and every time they get the same response: Me shouting "Are you talking to me?" until they break down and cry.

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The first word says it all SAITAMA. The chap was lucky that this woman's oba-san homies didn't get him off the train and give him a free horoscope reading.

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I don't care what the lady said or how she said it, punching someone old enough to be your mother on the jaw hard enough to break it because she asked you to stop playing games on a cellphone is borderline psychotic behaviour. To those of you who even begin to think it's a reasonable response, you scare me. I hope there aren't too many of you out there. What would you think if it was your own mother that was hit? I suppose you would go out looking for the guy...to punch him. No wonder society is so messed up when there are people who think that hitting someone will solve their problems.

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Apsara -- agree completely. Punching an "old lady" (50 is old?) is to be excused because she interrupted a gamer? Not in any civilized society it isn't.

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Aspara: There's no 'borderline' psychotic behavior at all. It's outright and full-blown psychotic behavior. No ifs nor buts about it.

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I love all the mental health doctors in here. You make JT the best.

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Everyone needs to reread the article – unless it has been changed – since it states that the second punch was in the train station office, not a police station.

Misreading of a simple article like this shows a lot about the prejudices of many readers - they read what they want or expect, not what is there.

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Japan you have a problem You will have to ban all cell phones on trains. This computer prgramer is stupid attacking lady double if his age. I don't care what you people say, but in my books this is an assault and he should be punished according to the law of the land. Violance is not solution to such issue. 'RESPECT ELDERLY AND OBEY THE LAW.'

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Maybe this computer programmer from hell was trying to initiate this lady into "Fight Club". The first rule of Fight Club is...

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Why did she ask him to stop? Was it a wii type game or something?

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Fifty year old young woman (after being elbowed in the back and ribs for the 37th time). Could you please not use that on the train. 20 some year old master of the universe programmer: Fuchsia off you old biddy I'm busy, 10 more points and I get to look under her skirt. FYOYW: But could you not keep elbowing me. 20YOMOTUP:Now you've done it I just missed grabbing the golden chalice, you old useless blueberry. FYOYW: Hey wait a minute, I'm not that old, I still go to aerobics every day, so put the damn thing away. 20YOMOTUP: I'll show you, you interfering cherry and just to prove I'm you superior have a knuckle sandwich on me.

Well they did say he used colorful language after all.

No excuses for this, plain and simple assault, interesting that his Employer wasn't mentioned, must work for one of the heavies, wonder if he has a job to go to tomorrow.

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Maybe she threatened to kill his puppy ... Why are people defending this guy? Perhaps you got a bit of him in you. Physical attack in a non-threatening (physically anyway) situation is not part of civil society. He already mouthed off to her, surely that was more than enough.

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after reading the story I knew I would scroll down and find the usual culprits blaming the victim. and I did.

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Some major assumptions and mindreading, but here's my take:

Junior was spoilt little brat. parents gave him everything. Everytime he whined, his parents caved. he went to uni, and got a job in computer programming, naturally because he was a good computer otoku (and with the accompanying horrible social skills) finally the time comes for him to join the real world of working for a living. He hates it. He can't whine anymore and get his way. He has to suffer on the train. Then this women, god bless her, gives him the whats up, and he flips out because NOBODY talks to spoilt junior that way. Of course junior is now fired, has shamed his parents, and for the rest of his miserable life will realize how horrible things have now become.

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Ichyawarfare: "I also guess you have never wanted to hit someone. Sorry I am not an angel like you."

I don't know a human being who HASN'T wanted to hit someone at some point in their lives, but pretty much everyone I know has a little thing called control and doesn't actually hit them. You don't have to be an angel to not punch a women more than twice your age and break her jaw.

"I guess you also have never come across someone that has come at you wrong or said something you did not like, whether you were in the wrong or not and there is no way you could be wrong."

I have indeed come across people who have wrongly accused me of something, or have been a little big in their britches in admonishing me (and again, for something wrong), but never did or would I punch them for it, and if I did I would deserve to be punished/jailed for it, for in NO WAY does someone criticizing me make them deserving of assault.

"I don't know what was said, but to get the reaction she got, I am assuming it was not nice. But I digress, I was not there to hear her, were you? Nope."

Doesn't matter. Regardless of what the woman said, she didn't deserve the assault, and you saying "she probably deserved it" and "he deserves to get hit too" are indeed indicative that you rationalize the man's actions.

Seriously, people who think someone else deserves a punch for asking you not to play games on a crowded train, or not smoking in a non-smoking area, or getting thrown in front of a train for not saying 'excuse me' when you bump into another person (only a slight step up), you really, really need to be analyzed -- for your own safety if for no one else's.

Ichyawarfare, in short, if people were justified in assaulting others for criticism/admonition, as you suggest the man may have been, you would have been toast a long time ago, I'm sure. As it is, see the part of my post above about people who can rationalize what the man did as needing help.

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PaulieWalnuts: "after reading the story I knew I would scroll down and find the usual culprits blaming the victim. and I did."

Indeed. Plenty of Japanese do it, and hence the crimes continue to happen so frequently, but to see others take on the proverb, "When in Rome" in cases like this is all the more sickening.

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Fifty year old young woman

Hahahaa, muri shinaide ne....sorry if I made you be all PC. I wasn't offended at 'old lady' so much as bemused...I did remember later, well after I posted that I thought my parents were up there when I got married, but they were 48 and 50! :-)

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She needs to learn how to put people in the clinch.

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This young man is a result of having "monster parents" who spoiled him in many ways!!!

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Japan is becoming a dangerous place: Otaku's are pushing people off station platforms, beating up middle aged women, kidnapping 12 year old girls... all beacause they are otaku's (ie virgins) and can't get any love.

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Ando admitted to assaulting the woman but told police there’s not much he can do about the crowded trains.

Well.. The police can lock-up this jerk, that'd be one less passenger on the train.

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ummmm so there was enough space on this crowded train to pull back far enough to throw a full punch and hit the woman in the face and break her jaw?? You would need at least a foot behind you to throw a punch. Maybe it was an upper-cut?

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He was restrained by several passengers until the train stopped at Toda Park station, where they escorted him off the train. They took him to the station office, but while in there with the woman and station staff, he punched the woman again, police said.

A lot of the comments I've been reading seem to be ignoring this passage. It's bad enough to try and justify the idiot's actions in the first place, but to do so in light of the fact that he punched her again WHILE IN POLICE PRESENCE just goes to show what a complete lunatic he is. Clearly this guy has never heard of anger management.

Though what does it say about the competency of the constabulary when such an incident is even allowed to happen while they're standing right there?

Ando admitted to assaulting the woman but told police there’s not much he can do about the crowded trains

Wow, that is... SO not the point. There's this little thing called "common courtesy," which dictates that, when your behavior is interfering with or annoying people in your vicinty, you correct that behavior. It's why you turn down your radio late at night to keep from waking your neighbors, and why you get out of the way when you're having a conversation with someone in the supermarket and another shopper needs to get around you. Common courtesy would say when you're on a crowded train, you should wait to play the cellphone game until you're not in such close quarters. You certainly don't PUNCH someone for asking you to do something that anyone with even an ounce of decency would understand instinctively.

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For a second I MISREAD the headline to read "Man held for PUSHING 50 yr old woman IN FRONT of Saitama train" that itself wouldn't be surprising either.

He didn't punch her again while in police presence, he punched her again while the police were being called. Or at least that's how I read what happened. Either way guy's got problems.

I was in a crowded train once, this guy ran in as the doors were closing pushing everyone back, an older gentleman started yelling at the kid saying "why didn't he say excuse me" or apologize to the other passengers, then asking him if he were a student, and they went back and forth yelling at each other for a station or two.

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Call me old fashioned, but you just don't hit a woman for any reason. Basic lack of morality, no remorse, and obviously doesn't care about the negative consequences of his actions. If this had been your mother, what would you do?

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He must be really stressed out. Good example of human nature. No matter how civilized we all appear to be in everyday life sometimes our primitive instincts take over.

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PaulieWalnuts: after reading the story I knew I would scroll down and find the usual culprits blaming the victim. and I did.

On the other hand, some people seem to defend a person's right to say anything they want at any time for any reason including no reason at all.

I can imagine this guy attacking a very nice and gentle woman just as easily as I can him attacking a verbally brutal obatarion who was asking for it. The thing is, we have no indication of her words, demeanor or even what if any trouble his game playing was causing.

He was wrong for hitting her, clearly. But we are left guessing as to why he hit her, and yes, it is entirely possible that the woman went out of her way to make that happen. I won't decide until I see the video.

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It's bad enough to try and justify the idiot's actions in the first place, but to do so in light of the fact that he punched her again WHILE IN POLICE PRESENCE just goes to show what a complete lunatic he is.

No, they were in the station office, with station staff...no mention of any police being present.

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Digusting incident isn't it? I'd like this coward to have tried this against one of the two ladies who are in their fifties who train regularly at my Taekwondo club. This "guy" would have been separated from his family jewels!

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You guys are funny. Of course violence is the only way to solve everything. Remember, when words fail, only action remains. To solve with fists is to be human. Survival of the fittest.

I again, in no way say it is ok to just hit someone over talking. I again, have no idea what was said and how the events transpired. Again, some people forget how it is to be human and things happen.

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IchyaWarFare: " Again, some people forget how it is to be human and things happen."

Still saying you don't think it's okay to hit someone, but it's perfectly 'human' to do so, and therefore okay. Why don't you just go back to saying 'the woman probably deserved it' and stick behind it? We know it's ridiculous, but you saying, "I disagree with what he did, but he was probably right to do it" really doesn't do you much justice.

As to the first part of your comment, I recommend you try to make a little sense.

The woman did not deserve what she got. It doesn't matter what she said. It's not 'forgetting how it is to be human' to defend this man and blame the victim, it's the opposite -- the minute you forget you are human you are capable of doing such things, and forgetting the person you hit, or the victim whom you read about in a newspaper article, is a human being.

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The best part is how, after arresting him for punching a 50 year old woman, the cops let him hit her again, back at the koban. HANDCUFFS you morons! HANDCUFFS!!!

Very Good Point!

Yea...! That's 1st class police work for you... I hope the lady presses charges and files a law suit against those loser cops...

Unbelievable... Those cops would have been fired that same day, and the police department would be looking at a multi-million dollar law suit had that happened anywhere else...but Japan...

More ridiculous stuff...

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I'm surprised anyone stopped him, usually people just bury their heads in their books or pretend to sleep when anything strange or unusual happens.

So the guy was a freak, that's a given. However, the crowded trains in Tokyo are a joke. It's inhuman to be pressed up against someone else, sniffing their armpits for an hour. Being unable to move to put your bag down, having to stand on one leg because there is no space for your feet. Then you get the idiots with their backpacks on.

People should learn NOT TO GET ON a train that is crowded. Wait for the next one. If the last train is always crowded, the rail company should provide later trains, or a bus service so people can get home.

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Very Good Point!

Yea...! That's 1st class police work for you... I hope the lady presses charges and files a law suit against those loser cops...

Except that it was in the train station office that he punched her, while they were waiting for the cops to arrive. You didn't read the article either, eh?

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Second line should be in quotes as well.

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sharky1 at 02:34 AM JST - 28th March

Call me old fashioned, but you just don't hit a woman for any reason.

you're old-fashioned. people who deserve a punch in the mouth, should get one. regardless of their gender. in this case, this woman didn't deserve a punch in the mouth but, people who act-up or get out of line should get jacked in the face. same as everyone else.

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Guys the problem is GAME when you play game and do not have contacts with human being you do not know what is good what is bad or what MANNERS are or what others pain is?. And this is why this guy who in the first place should not hurt anyone punched a LADY. This kind of people do not distinguish Moral code, humanity etc. They are addict to game only FULL STOP.

Once people of this country had good manners but now a days they do not know what Manners are.

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This is so sad. Japanese men are so rude and they are never polite to a woman.

The other day I was taking the Yamanote line on a rush hour with my 4 years old son and it was so crowded that I had to ask people not to push (my son was almost crying). So this Japanese guy in a suit looks at me and says "f*** you". I mean, COME ON!!! He said that in English in front of my son. They all should go back to school and learn manners.

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It is quite evident by his behavior that this man has some psychological issues and need medical help with dealing with his physical outbursts. Which I recommend only after being disciplined accordingly by the law. I never understood why some people feel the need to retaliate to something they disagree with by either physical violence or verbal outbursts/threats. There are civil and mature ways of handling such situations without physical or verbal attacks. So unfortunate for the woman/victim.

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“I'm surprised anyone stopped him, usually people just bury their heads in their books or pretend to sleep when anything strange or unusual happens.” My sentiments exactly.

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“You guys are funny. Of course violence is the only way to solve everything. Remember, when words fail, only action remains. To solve with fists is to be human. Survival of the fittest.” Spoken like a true barbarian. So in other words, if you say something to somebody that they take offends to, your rational is that the person has the right to physically and verbally abuse you and their action would be justified because it’s human to do so? Your survival of the fittest comparison is displaced in this situation. It applies differently to animals and human beings. Some animals must fight to maintain their survival ala non-domesticated animals such as lions, tigers or snakes. Regarding human beings, for example: human beings must be ambitious and career driven to obtain professional recognition and achievement, personal recognition, and self-actualization and self-worth. I recommend reading Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.

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Anyone who takes what I said this seriously is sad. This type of thinking is from how far back? I can understand for wanting to hit a person, but I do not condone it. I rather get you in the wallet than hit you. That is just the way I would do it. Will this lady get a big pay day? Doubt it, but she will get some money.

Again, I was not there for what she said. I bet all of you speak out of turn or have said something to someone that in turn deserved someone to jump down your throat or vice versa. Because you are all human, we have all made that mistake. Now, because some of you need manuals on how it is to be human or act on emotion, we forget how it was to be young and stupid. Does not matter if the kid was a rich brat or not, he acted out. Does he deserve the "death sentence" that you all are branding him with? No. (And do not take death sentence literally.)

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Random,

Then you get the idiots with their backpacks on.

I always have a back pack on. Those pictures on those posters showing people putting their back packs on the front are stupid. Whether the back pack is on the back or the front does not change the volume of the back pack. Besides, a back pack on the front if you are standing near a seated person is very rude. I tell them to put it on their back. And I don't blame anyone for not wanted to toss a laptop or nice digital camera and lens'up on the rack.

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What was done was done and is done. The dude banged an old lady in her snot box; there's no rational behind it. You got people that murder people for "FUN" to feed their burning desires. No one on this earth can explain why someone's actions. I just find it sad that majority of the assualts here in Japan are men vs women/old people/children. The only thing that seperate "man" from animals are LAWS.

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Well put Khemet...I just had time and felt like making a big stink about it. since it seems people are throwing random things out. She said something, he hit her, he got caught, he hit her again. Its news. He's a loser just like i said from day one.

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I can see this entire thing play out. Can't anybody see the humor in this? Having her broken jaw wired shut will teach her to shut her mouth no? He punched her again even after the authorities had him. Then he said he couldn't help them about the crowded trains, the kid is a comedian (physical humor).

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Yasashihito-lol.

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IchyaWarFare: "Will this lady get a big pay day? Doubt it, but she will get some money."

There you are again, trying to find a way for justifying this woman's pain. You're bloody sick, mate.

"Again, I was not there for what she said. I bet all of you speak out of turn or have said something to someone that in turn deserved someone to jump down your throat or vice versa. Because you are all human, we have all made that mistake."

AGAIN, you are trying to justify what this man did... utterly hilarious. "I don't condone it, but I wasn't there for what she said, and like her I bet you've said something that deserved..."

As I said before, stick to your original, "she probably deserved it too" or say you made a mistake. Defending 'she deserved it' with, 'I'm not saying she deserved it, but like her we've all done something to deserver it' doesn't help your cause.

I did say a while ago that there are some people who defend the criminals with lame excuses and accuse the victims of deserving it as being in need of mental help. Go back and check out that post again. I'm sorry, but what you say is just offensive.

Yelnats: "I always have a back pack on. Those pictures on those posters showing people putting their back packs on the front are stupid. Whether the back pack is on the back or the front does not change the volume of the back pack. Besides, a back pack on the front if you are standing near a seated person is very rude. I tell them to put it on their back. And I don't blame anyone for not wanted to toss a laptop or nice digital camera and lens'up on the rack."

I think it depends on the situation. I agree that simply shifting a backpack to the front really means nothing when someone is in front of you, and I absolutely refuse to put things on the rack given that in such crowds it's just as bad as throwing elbows, etc., and given how many people forget stuff. I usually put my backpack down on the floor between my legs (it's usually not very full). Getting mad at people with backpacks for a packed train is simply called misdirecting anger. True, there are degrees to which people can try and make things more comfortable for one another, and what this moron playing games was doing is not one (while what the woman did was -- except for the man in question who ended up unjustifiably beating her).

The biggest beef I have are the old guys who for whatever reason are standing and decide to bend down and extend their butts out so that they have more space -- like a horse who will extend its gut so that the saddle is not tightened so much around them. Still, unlike IchyaWarFare, I would never justify kicking them to tighten the saddle around the ojisan.

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smithinjapan- I do not justify what he did, I said I can understand. What part do you not understand? Understanding something and me saying he had every right to hit her are two different things. did I say in my first post that he had every right to hit her? no. Did I say she probably deserved it because what she might or might not have said? I said so, just like other people have, but that did not justify it. Justifying it would have been, yeah she should have been hit for just opening her mouth. Who does she think she is. Did I say that? Nope. :)

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I can understand for wanting to hit a person, but I do not condone it.

I want to punch you, but I won't? That's fine. The difference is between wanting and doing.

I rather get you in the wallet than hit you. That is just the way I would do it.

This is confusing (or confused). The young puncher should get the lady in the wallet? That's what you would do if someone asked you to quit playing your game in a crowded train? Ask them to pay you? Sue them? How much exactly do you think that would be worth? As opposed to, say, a series of punches and a broken jaw?

Did I say she probably deserved it because what she might or might not have said? I said so, just like other people have, but that did not justify it.

How is saying 'she deserved it' not justifying it? Maybe there's some subtle point I'm missing here, but to me they mean the same.

Justifying it would have been, yeah she should have been hit for just opening her mouth.

No, justifying it is saying she deserved it. Which is what you did.

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smithinjapan-I just looked at all the prior posts and no where did I say "she deserved it". That is what I get for listening to smithinjapan. I wrote she was probably asking for it. That does not justify it, but to prove your point, you changed my words. Sneaky ain't ya. Running your yap and egging someone on does not justify anything.

cleo-I then turn around and say I said she deserved it in my last post, so yes Cleo, you are correct. I justified it there and wrong in saying so. My original posts have also been edited so, I am gonna have to play my little violin.

Cleo-to get someone in the wallet is this: If I was the one who got hit or someone wronged me, I would not hit or say anthing to you. I would go through the proper channels and affect the way you got paid. ie: if you hit me, I would sue you. If you wronged me at work or whatever, I would make sure it would affect your money, your income, the way you live. I would make sure it would affect you and there are plenty of ways to make sure anyone can do that. That broken jaw is going to get wired shut and that is expensive. You are also talking about lost wages and time in treatment etc. Compared to getting hit and having the bills, I will make sure I affect your wallet. Not sure how else to break it down for you.

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smithinjapan - I am still trying to find out where IchyaWarFare was justifying what happened. All he is saying is that he sees or understands where the kid is coming from. Does that mean he agrees with what he did, I don't think so. Everyday there are things in society we see and know it’s wrong but don't do anything about it. Does that mean it is justified by society? It has been said over and over that the kid was wrong. But no one is wondering why the kid did it. Maybe if we find out what caused him to do this that we can learn from this so that it doesn't happen again? Maybe IchyaWarFare was thinking about that side. But to say that he is justifying what happened is a far stretch.

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You know what.....its over....she got hit, he's in jail or at home playing his cell phone game, her jaw is broke, he's going to pay. Simple.

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CMEANDU26- That is where I was trying to go with my conversation, but you have to be either balck or white on this. When people pick and choose what they want out of your post and take things over board, things get twisted.

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Ichya -

I get about getting someone in the wallet in preference to hitting them, if they've wronged you. That's common sense. But in this particular case, there is no suggestion of the lady (the wronged one) hitting the 22-year-old as far as I can see. She deserves, and probably will get, recompense. He is only one doing any hitting, and it's very hard to imagine he had any recourse to getting the lady in the wallet for merely telling him to drop the game. Sorry, I found your logic confusing.

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cleo-sorry, accidentally hit enter and submitted. Also was referring to when she "supposedly" said something in the station office, not the koban, and got hit again. I would have just been quiet there and waited to get him back. Not trying to justify him hitting her or the pain she recieved.

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it's not helpful to tell a young man to turn off his cellphone in a crowded train, so the lady was in battarian mode and verbally assaulting him.

his mistake was taking it personally.

quite obviously then, both the man and the older lady are equally at fault.

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When you are on the train, you have a social responsibility. Play your game, or listen to your iPod, or read your paper but if what you are doing is taking up space (arms pushed out, paper flapping in someone's face) or disturbing someone, during rush hour, then you are selfish to the 10th degree. There are people who think they are in their living room; no, it is rush hour and space is at a premium to say the least. But you have the people who cling the corner and won't budge; you know the type, their eyes are closed and/or listening to music, and when the doors open, they don't move,...you have to move. But this is THEIR SPACE and by God, they will not give it up.

And, if you want someone to lower their music or move out of the doors, tell them in low voice and say sorry. Really no need for you to apologize but hell, why not? They just might move!

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I would like to say its wrong to hit a woman, but every since i move to japan, I have notice that its not a two way street here. Men absolutly have to break and bend in every way no not seem like a pervert or some type of creep to women and children. then Tokyo is extremely crowded in every way imaginable and the issues you have to put up with on a day to day and stay quiet about it.... I think this guy was jus having a bad day, and some evil woman chose to be all in the face of the wrong person, in the wrong place, and at the wrong time. she didnt even know him. the real question is whats her problem. She should be at fault for provoking him to attack her. in light, he may have been only expressing himself... but at the wrong place at the wrong time lol..

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I wrote she was probably asking for it.

How does that differ from 'she deserved it?'

she "supposedly" said something in the station office

Where'd you pull that from?

Well all of you, the next time you ask someone to stop staring at you, you're asking to be pounded, deserve it, and you'll get no sympathy from me then.Bet that will be different though...

Some bunch we have here Cleo, eh?

Men absolutly have to break and bend in every way no not seem like a pervert or some type of creep to women and children.

You're describing the US there more than Japan...

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Himajin-It differs in the fact that she may or may not have pushed his buttons. Probably is that word. Saying she deserved it is saying she deserved without a doubt in your mind. That everyone agrees, and fortunately not everyone does.

He hit her again in the station office. Was he provoked? Did she or someone say something again? Not sure. But to be react without being provoked normally does not happen. Again, I was not there and the story has holes. Not sure if you got that on JT.

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"They took him to the station office, but while in there with the woman and station staff, he punched the woman again"

He didnt punch her in the police station but in the station office while in there...station staff !

No police officer in that sentence and in that office !

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So,Ichya, no matter how rude a person's behavior in public, asking them to refrain is provocation and it's just normal that they are punched?

There is little difference in 'she asked for it' and 'she deserved it'.

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bdaniel08-I am sure everyone got it by now that she was in the train stations office. Thank you for clarifying again though.

Himajin-If you start from the beginning, I was not there, and I am not sure how she asked him. My answer to you was edited. "IF" she came at him wrong, I can understand how he wanted to hit her. I understand it. I do not condone it. I do not say and go and hit anyone who tells anyone anything. But I can understand in wanting to hit someone cause I am having a bad day, stressed out, you are pushing my buttons or just came at me wrong. I can understand it. I do not know what he was thinking or feeling, it is all up in the air.

Here is a better version for you for probably asking for it and deserving it. She tells him in a rude way to turn off his game. Here she is probably asking for it.

She grabs his phone, smashes it on the ground and laughs in his face whild calling his whole family weird obscenities and wishing they all would die and spits in his face. Not sure about you, but here, I think she would deserve it. Of course, none of this happened, just trying to prove a point.

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I can understand in wanting to hit someone cause I am having a bad day, stressed out, you are pushing my buttons or just came at me wrong. I can understand it.

Hey, I can understand wanting to hit someone. What I can't understand is actually hitting someone. If your buttons are so sensitive that you cannot refrain from punching people who push them, you need to stay home if it's a temporary problem or get psychiatric help if it's chronic.

She tells him in a rude way to turn off his game. Here she is probably asking for it.

Or maybe she was having a bad day, stressed out and some young punk keeps poking her with his bony elbows as he plays his game on a crowded train. Maybe he was 'asking for it' ? How come you can't understand her wanting to ask him to stop? How come it's easier to understand an extreme reaction than a reasonable one?

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cleo-are you still here? What part of not being there do you not understand? Just because I am arguing his side does not mean I do not understand hers. Everyone who has ridden on a train here in Japan understands.

I have seen both sides. I understand both sides, never said I did not. I just do not like the "death sentence" (do not take literally) that some people want to give him. No one was there and no one heard what was said. Like I said before, most people want to either to look at this in black and white. I am just trying to be fair to all parties because she has enough champions.

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Pretty misguided fairness if you ask me. Once again--

You ask someone to stop staring at you (frequent enough here, right?) and the starer punches you and breaks your jaw. Justified?

You briefly bark at someone 'Stop staring at me!!' and they punch you and break your jaw. Justified?

I don't think that breaking someone's jaw is justified in any circumstance other than self-defense under serious threat. A broken jaw takes weeks to heal. It IS rather black and white. Losing control of yourself in public and hitting someone hard enough to break their jaw is uncontrolled rage.

No I don't 'understand', no I do not see the 'need' to take his side. He behaved like an animal. It's unacceptable. What part of that do YOU not understand? What's the use, especially as you keep insisting you weren't there? We know you weren't there, it makes your defense of an unbalanced person all the more strange.

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Himajin-Then you will never understand. Another perfect human.

You briefly bark at someone 'Stop staring at me!!' and they punch you and break your jaw. Justified? Where did I write breaking someone's jaw is justified? I said getting hit. Not the same thing and what you wrote is not. Sorry, if you are getting stared at and need to hit someone, you are a bit to conscious about what people think. You might need help.

No I don't 'understand', no I do not see the 'need' to take his side. I know.

He behaved like an animal. It's unacceptable. Matter of opinion.

What part of that do YOU not understand? I do not understand what was said and how all the events transpired.

What's the use, especially as you keep insisting you weren't there? We know you weren't there, it makes your defense of an unbalanced person all the more strange. I don't know. Why do you keep asking? Kind of futile, ya know.

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Man.... I thought this would be done by now. If someone is staring at me and I ask them to stop and they punch me it is not ok. Later on if I find out that he lost his job his wife and family. I could understand why he did what he did. But that does not make it ok. How simple is that. But barking at someone is considered a threat. Now how a person perceives it is different. If I go down the street and yell at a person who is playing video games and they feel threatend and hit me who is in the wrong. Listen HE SHOULD HAVE NOT HIT THE OLD LADY. There is no justification to it. But why do people feel it's so wrong want to understand why he hit her. Don't you think that but looking at the situation through his prospective that we can learn something from that. Himajin - you are taking parts of what people are writing and flipping them. If someone asked me to turn down my music in a nice manner I don't think that I would be upset. Not matter how bad my day was. Now IF someone yelled at me or was very rude to me and IF I was having a bad day I might react in a different way. Does that mean I will hit the lady no. But I am differnt from this guy.

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Later on if I find out that he lost his job his wife and family. I could understand why he did what he did.

Then again, if he goes around punching people for nothing it's no wonder he lost his job his wife his family.

Does that mean I will hit the lady no. But I am differnt from this guy.

That's what we're saying. Normal people are different from this guy. Normal people do not go around breaking the jaws of people they are annoying in a confined space.

Listen HE SHOULD HAVE NOT HIT THE OLD LADY.

Less of the old, please.

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You briefly bark at someone 'Stop staring at me!!' and they punch you and break your jaw. Justified? Where did I write breaking someone's jaw is justified? I said getting hit. Not the same thing and what you wrote is not. Sorry, if you are getting stared at and need to hit someone, you are a bit to conscious about what people think. You might need help.

That is what this thread is about, he broke her jaw, and I'm sick of reading posts like yours saying 'she asked for it' 'she might have nagged him'

She spoke to him on the train about an annoying behavior, playing games in a really crowded train. Then came all this 'I understand' 'maybe she asked for it' baloney, so I gave you an example that many foreigners deal with on a daily basis, being stared at, another irritating behavior. If you really need it simplified, if you asked someone to stop playing games on their cellphone on the train, how would you feel if they punched you several times and broke your jaw, which is exactly what happened to this woman? Get what I'm saying now?

Sorry, if you are getting stared at and need to hit someone, you are a bit to conscious about what people think. You might need help.

If you get asked not to use your cellphone on a crowded train and you feel the need to hit someone, like the man in this article, you might need help,eh?

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Himajin - you are taking parts of what people are writing and flipping them. If someone asked me to turn down my music in a nice manner I don't think that I would be upset. Not matter how bad my day was. Now IF someone yelled at me or was very rude to me and IF I was having a bad day I might react in a different way. Does that mean I will hit the lady no

I am not flipping anything. You just said exactly what I was saying. Would you hit them? Would you think it was ok for you to be hit? I gave two examples, being asked nicely and being snapped or barked at. Personally, I think that anyone barking at someone is ill-mannered at least, if not a bit off. But--I was wondering about where you draw the line....is it okay or 'asked for' if it's a request, 'asked for' if the person asks you rudely or barks at you, or is it never defensible to hit another person and injure them? My personal opinion is that force enough to break someone's jaw is not justified at all by this situation, even if she yelled at him. This kind of force is justified in my opinion only in self-defense. I was wondering what other people thought.

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I guess she won't be doing any complaining to cell phone users in the future?

She should be more careful next time. Get off the train rather than complaining.

but I bet that old lady was asking for it too(IchiyaWarFare)

I kind of see where this guy is coming from,

Or she may have provoked him with her choice of words. Not smart and also rude. You never know if a stranger is a nutjob, so tread lightly.

Hopefully old people will start thinking twice before opening their mouths and telling people what to do

it is entirely possible that the woman went out of her way to make that happen.

quite obviously then, both the man and the older lady are equally at fault.

Later on if I find out that he lost his job his wife and family. I could understand why he did what he did.

There you go, all the quotes to which I am referring, pasted as posted, Lord knows they don't need any 'twisting'.

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cleo-after your posts about thinking it was a koban and then not understanding slang, you just wanted to know what she did to "deserve" it. You did not state that at all. You are just retaliating. Understanding someone does not make anyone less normal than trying to figure out why they did something. Understanding is a part of learning. It is not a hard thing to understand. Watch Dr. Phil, it might help.

Himajin-If you do not like peoples opinions, than ignore them. It is not a hard thing to do.

If you really need it simplified, if you asked someone to stop playing games on their cellphone on the train, how would you feel if they punched you several times and broke your jaw, which is exactly what happened to this woman? Get what I'm saying now?

Um, if you look, I answered you way back. Don't condone it. Just trying to understand him. What part of the English language did you miss?

I was wondering what other people thought. No, you were only referring to me.

Never said it was justified, but you only have two colors to view everything. Pretty dark and sad.

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Then again, if he goes around punching people for nothing it's no wonder he lost his job his wife his family.

Umm...I gave an example. I didn't say that he lost his wife and family because he was punching people. You just made that up.

That's what we're saying. Normal people are different from this guy. Normal people do not go around breaking the jaws of people they are annoying in a confined space.

Who said this guy was normal? What if we were to find out he was really crazy and couldn't get his medication because he lost job and had no insurance or couldn't get to the hospital. Maybe playing that cell phone game was the only thing keeping him from going off and not being able to control his emotions he snapped. What would we be saying now? The story was one sided. I am trying to see why he did it. I am sorry that you are so closed minded to fit the pieces in where there are blanks but I am trying to see the whole thing. If people are going to fill holes where they make sense I want to look at it from another point to open the minds of others. It seems to not have worked in this case with you but maybe someone was able to see it from another point.

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What part of the English language did you miss?

I could very well as you the same thing, after you said to me--

I said getting hit. Not the same thing and what you wrote is not. Sorry, if you are getting stared at and need to hit someone, you are a bit to conscious about what people think. You might need help. No I don't 'understand', no I do not see the 'need' to take his side. I know. He behaved like an animal. It's unacceptable. Matter of opinion. What part of that do YOU not understand? I do not understand what was said and how all the events transpired. What's the use, especially as you keep insisting you weren't there? We know you weren't there, it makes your defense of an unbalanced person all the more strange. I don't know. Why do you keep asking? Kind of futile, ya know.

Your posts are hardly crystal-clear....

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Never said it was justified, but you only have two colors to view everything. Pretty dark and sad.

More genius material. 'Having only too colors' might be better than drowning in a sea of moral relativism where anything goes.

Thanks for the 5c psychoanalysis, after one thread you know all there is to know about me. Sugoi!

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Himajin-They are called JT edits. I am sure it has happened to you.

Next time I cut and paste from your own posts, which you do not recognize, I will make them pretty colors for you. :)

Moderator: Readers, this exchange is going nowhere. Please focus your comments on the topic, not at each other.

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let's take this part of the news story one more time:

"Police said Jun Ando, a computer programmer and resident of Toda City, became angry on the train bound for Shinkiba at around 8 a.m., after the woman asked him to stop playing games on his cell phone as the train was so crowded. Ando told her to shut up and sprayed her with some colorful language, before punching her several times."

A woman asks a guy to stop playing games on his cell phone as the train is very crowded. Probably he had the sound on, and it annoyed her.

Even so, she did not address her specific issue: crowds are an annoyance, but having to listen to a noisy game is torture.

Thus is why I stated both parties are at fault: she was at fault because she used an indirect means of getting him to silence his cellphone.

It was not because the train was crowded but because the ignorance of her suffering led her to choose him, rather than to comment on the obliviousness of youth to unbearable conditions on the train.

However, his reaction is an abreaction, and out of line. It shows irresponsibility (forethought regarding your reaction to others when they make a simple request of you) and a lack of consideration for others.

It is doubtful I can read anything else into the news report.

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I can't believe you people are arguing about whose side is who on! The woman was 50 years old and he was 21!

Back in America we respect or elders! I am 192cm an 116klg! If that little old lady told me to close the phone and put my nose in the corner while singing Yankee Duuddy I would do it!

If I was in that train I would have broken his jaw plain and simple! It doesn't matter what she said at all! She has lived twice his age and has put up with far more S&%$ it her life and has the right to tell a young, ignorant, disrespectful kid to stop playing a phone during the short time is on a train.

I mean, I can't live without my phone but god, people are going to far!

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Sorry about the typo's but I am angry about how no one is talking about respect! That bothers me in Japan!

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kwilkins21-Do not open another can of worms.

sageb1-good post.

Himajin-I am sure you understand what I was talking about before about the edits.

Moderator-understood.

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Yea...! That's 1st class police work for you... I hope the lady presses charges and files a law suit against those loser cops...

Except that it was in the train station office that he punched her, while they were waiting for the cops to arrive. You didn't read the article either, eh?

Obviously you read into these stories on JT way too much. It doesn't say anything about, "No Police" presence in the office when the lady was struck again by this wack-job.

But you may be surprised to know that, the minute this station staff and/or Good Samaritans usher this woman and wack-job into that station office, they opened themselves up for liability.

If you do nothing and the woman gets hit, it's nobody's fault other than the person who hit her, but the minute you offer assistance, in the case of this instance, you are obligated to provide a safe area, free of harm or injury.

To summarize, they escort both the woman and wack-job into a room together, not a very good idea to begin with... It shows lack of common at the very least, but once they did that (Station Staff or Good Samaritan, passengers) They also had a responsibility to ensure her safety...

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CMEANDU26 at 11:00 AM JST - 27th March

Man....This guy didn't care about what is going to happen. He should have done that when he was 19 and he wouldn't ge going to jail. Kids today need to be taught respect. Maybe it should be a subject in school.

kwilkins-There was somebody who did talk about respect and more after, just did not want to cut and paste it all.

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kwilins-

I said it way back...said she was 50!!! wtf.....i feel your anger man....

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