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Man jailed for 2 years for making guns with 3D printer

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Should've been longer, those things can maim.

-10 ( +8 / -19 )

Make the penalties harsher. Make sure these filthy devices are as scarce as possible.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

3D printing hasn't gone mainstream yet and it's already at risk from being banned, thanks to these fool.

-4 ( +9 / -13 )

Guns most certainly do belong in the right hands, which are those of the law.

-3 ( +9 / -12 )

That's an interesting case. Was he jailed for producing the guns, or for making the video? I wonder if the latter would be protected under the law? It seems that regulating the content of videos when there is so much weird stuff out there would be difficult.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Seems very excessive to give him two years jail time when the plans for printing guns are available online but he didn't have ammunition needed to load it which can't be made by a 3-D printer and buying ammunition in this country even for licensed gun holders is very difficult and restrictive. It wasn't proven by the court that the weapon even worked, it just assumed it would.

12 ( +21 / -8 )

Yakuza seem to be able to arm themselves! Do they get 2 years too?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@CrazyJoeOct.

Guns most certainly do belong in the right hands, which are those of the law.

But you don't know which crazy person made the law. Just because it is the law of the land doesn't mean it is a just law. Although I'm sure many a despot would agree with you.

-3 ( +3 / -7 )

Anyone can acquire a gun anywhere in the world

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

I've seen videos of mini-railguns being made but the police don't do anything about it www.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Imura’s lawyers argued that he did not know his acts were illegal, a notion that the court rejected.

Well, he knows now, doesn't he? That's a pretty lame excuse. I remember a judge told me many years ago that, ignorance is not an excuse. I also wonder the charges were. Was h charged with illegal possession of a firearm? That can carry a 5-10 year sentence in Japan. I think he got off pretty lightly.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Why is this illegal but when I go to a matsuri or hobby store, they have bb guns that look like real guns?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

he didn't have ammunition needed to load it which can't be made by a 3-D printer

No, but it can be made relatively easily using traditional techniques, depending on the level of sophistication needed. Gunpowder is simple to make.

This sentence may be a bit harsh seeming, but really I don't think it is. There's no need for anyone to have a gun like this, and there's plenty of potential harm in allowing the proliferation of such weapons. Best to clamp down on the production of printed guns before they become common.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Beat up the little guy. The wonderful judicial system.

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

This is a situation where the little guy should be beat up. Guns have no place in the hands of the populace, and this is an area where the police should set an example each and every time it happens. There should be no leeway given for this, as there is no valid reason for a civilian to have a handgun.

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Excessive, they are just making a show of this case.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Why is this illegal but when I go to a matsuri or hobby store, they have bb guns that look like real guns?

Because he was making firearms, not realistic looking replicas.

he had no bullets, never even fired it.

So by that logic, if he had acquired a handgun on the black market, he shouldn't be charged with possession of an illegal firearm as long as he didn't have bullets and had never fired it?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

@zichi Seems very excessive to give him two years jail time when the plans for printing guns are available online but he didn't have ammunition needed to load it which can't be made by a 3-D printer ...

New 3-D printed ammo to end ammo drought

http://www.guns.com/2014/04/01/new-3d-printed-rimfire-ammo-end-ammo-drought/

"3D-Printed Bullets Exist, And They're Terrifyingly Easy To Make"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/23/3d-printed-bullets_n_3322370.html

There are also already manufactured plastic bullets made to fired from special guns. Those special guns could eventually be printed, and the plastic bullets bought in bulk, and perhaps modified to have pointy ends.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Because he was making firearms, not realistic looking replicas.

how's it a firearm if they've never even tested to see if it fires? i hope someone doesn't 3d print a death ray. god knows what the punishment in japan is for that.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Excessive, they are just making a show of this case.

As they should. I'm thankful. I just hope they keep this up and make a show of anyone else who is irresponsible enough to do this same crime.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

how's it a firearm if they've never even tested to see if it fires

Do you think if they caught him with what appeared to have been a conventionally manufactured handgun, they wouldn't have charged him without first firing it to make sure it worked?

You don't need to fire a gun to know it's functional.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

Sioux ChefOct. 21, 2014 - 11:13AM JST You don't need to fire a gun to know it's functional.

Err yes you do, and it's usually done. I think they said he discharged it in a video though. In any case, even if it doesn't work, he still manufactured restricted devices. Likely they have the CAD file he used.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Problem was he called them guns, had he called them a toy BB gun or something no problem.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

@Strangerland,

Nah. Ridiculous abuse of power. Imbalance in the justice system. Don`t be so silly. Two years in jail when thugs running the country are corrupt beyond belief and are given bonuses. Are you another paranoid individual that only holds the small guy accountable?

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Some commentators here, are really going so far to the point to defend this Imura character just to criticize everything Japan does or doesn't.....

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Ridiculous abuse of power. Imbalance in the justice system.

Not at all. We the public (and the Japanese see eye-to-eye with me on this) feel that guns have no place in society whatsoever, and that the creation of them deserves a swift, harsh response. There is no imbalance here, there is simply the law following the will of the people.

Two years in jail when thugs running the country are corrupt beyond belief and are given bonuses.

False equivalency. Corruption in government has absolutely nothing to do with this case. And one does not justify the other. In this situation, the criminal was given an appropriate sentence, in your example, sometimes they aren't. That doesn't make this injustice, it simply makes your example injustice, which is irrelevant to this guy's crime.

Are you another paranoid individual that only holds the small guy accountable?

You obviously don't read my posts here, or you wouldn't ask such a ridiculous question. I hold the guilty party responsible, often, if not usually, that is the big guy.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Ridiculous abuse of power. Imbalance in the justice system.

Not at all. We the public (and the Japanese see eye-to-eye with me on this) feel that guns have no place in society whatsoever, and that the creation of them deserves a swift, harsh response. There is no imbalance here, there is simply the law following the will of the people.

Two years in jail when thugs running the country are corrupt beyond belief and are given bonuses.

False equivalency. Corruption in government has absolutely nothing to do with this case. And one does not justify the other. In this situation, the criminal was given an appropriate sentence, in your example, sometimes they aren't. That doesn't make this injustice, it simply makes your example injustice, which is irrelevant to this guy's crime.

Are you another paranoid individual that only holds the small guy accountable?

You obviously don't read my posts here, or you wouldn't ask such a ridiculous question. I hold the guilty party responsible, often, if not usually, that is the big guy.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Pointofview is correct. What is he sued for ? What was the intent of his act? Not mentioned! 2 years in prison for an engineering guy, who could work creatively. Maybe he is type of show off guy but 100% sure a normal guy with no intent to harm anyone. At the same time, Japan is going to export missiles to kill thousands of people "who deserve it" but no problem. Lol. Stupid justice system. And i mean it. I am for strict control and opposed to firearms but realistic.

Do you think that will stop people from trying to use their printer ????

If he gets mad at the judge whi sentenced him, i would understand.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Do you think that will stop people from trying to use their printer ?

For the purposes of circumventing the firearms control laws in Japan? Yes. As it should.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

What is he sued for ?

He wasn't sued, he was charged.

What was the intent of his act?

The intent is irrelevant. In Japan, it is illegal to possess handguns. The law doesn't make a distinction on intent with what to do with that handgun.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

and so how many of these printed guns have been used in violent crimes? how about none.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

and so how many of these printed guns have been used in violent crimes? how about none.

If people are allowed to print them, it's only a matter of time. They serve zero benefit to society. There is no use or need for them, and prosecution is the correct response.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

This is stupid. Why do so many people cheers this? Shame on you. If anything this guy has balls. Can't wait till the 3d printer trumps the states monopoly of power by violence. There's no stopping an idea whose time has come. That why they're doubling down on this spy control grid and increasing security. News flash: that security isn't for your safety. It's for the states safety.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Why do so many people cheers this?

Because guns are a scourge that have no place in the hands of citizens in a healthy society. We cheers this because it is one of the few times that the government is making an entirely correct decision and reacting appropriately to a potential problem before it becomes a problem.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

This man is actually a hero. He spotted a loophole in the "system" of gun control and made his knowledge public. Sort of like spotting a vulnerability in a piece of software and sharing knowledge of that vulnerability, rather than keeping it to yourself...

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

He spotted a loophole in the "system" of gun control and made his knowledge public.

Not really - someone else already put the template for the gun online, so the loophole was already public. This guy exploited it to create a gun.

He's a zero, not a hero. Now he's a sad pathetic zero in jail, right where he should be.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I agree with Strangerland. No stable society actively encourages or tolerates the proliferation of firearms, and societies that are burdened with them suffer terrible problems. Japan is right in strongly discouraging this new method of obtaining guns from the start. American citizens hold hundreds of millions of firearms, doesn't stop their own government shafting them year on year and introducing increased surveillance measures. In fact history shows us that reformers and radicals are far more likely to suffer at the hands of a heavily-armed populace than the 'bad guys'.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I can only quote, that guns....... "are so uncivilized".

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Theres no need to throw this guy away for 2 years. Maybe a fine and give a lecture on why it is risky to print such things. Hopefully all of you slamming the guy for causing no harm dont incriminate others for petty things. The judge is simply abusing his power to look like a tough guy. Judges are playing the popularity contest these days.

@Strangerland,

The Japanese public prefer knives I suppose. It makes the law inconsistent. The judge said "It could influence others." Well then anything and everything could influence anything and everything. Could doesn`t equate to did.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Hopefully all of you slamming the guy for causing no harm dont incriminate others for petty things

No one is slamming the guy for causing no harm. He is being slammed because he printed a weapon that has no place in a healthy society, thereby breaking the rules of that society. So your comment is a strawman.

The Japanese public prefer knives I suppose.

If all knives were to be taken away, no one could cook. If all guns were taken away, nothing changes for the worse, and society is a better place.

Knives serve an effective purpose for which they are used to the benefit of society, day in, day out, every day, forever. Guns do not have an effective purpose with any benefit to society. So it's a false equivalency.

Could doesn`t equate to did.

No, but this punishment will certainly serve to keep people from making more guns.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Err yes you do, and it's usually done. I think they said he discharged it in a video though. In any case, even if it doesn't work, he still manufactured restricted devices

You do not need to fire a gun to determine if it is functional. They confiscated five handguns from him, two of which were functional.

In fact, it's been reported that part of his defense was that he had inserted aluminum plates into the barrels to prevent them from being fired; the court rejected that idea, noting that it was quite easy to remove the plates and restore their functionality.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Ha ha ha what a dumb a$$. Even if you try to make counterfeit money, copiers and printer's printware/software have embedded software that will disable the equipment or if connected to the internet will inform the secret service of your actions. If you print anything from your printer it will print random microscopic dots on a sheet In a pattern you can't detect that when assembled will produce the model, serial number of your printer and they can locate you through the method of payment you used. I know this because I have seen the random dot patterns and learned through the service department for the manufacturer who made the machines that the dot patterns are a signature for that machine and will lead the feds directly to your door. Nighty night sleep tight

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Even if you try to make counterfeit money, copiers and printer's printware/software have embedded software that will disable the equipment or if connected to the internet will inform the secret service of your actions.

You do realize we are talking about Japan,not the US, right? No secret service, no feds.

Making counterfeit money on a printer is especially stupid - not because some embedded software nonsense, but because the paper used would fool exactly nobody.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@Strangerland,

I think its obvious you are anti firearms unless of course we are talking about the police and feds. Youd probably agree if it was a 10 year sentence too. Ridiculous sentence and inconsistent judgement.

Millions of people find guns useful and a benefit.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I think its obvious you are anti firearms unless of course we are talking about the police and feds.

Bingo. Firearms have no place in society other than in the hands of authorities.

Youd probably agree if it was a 10 year sentence too.

Would you like to tell me how I'd think on any other topics as well?

Ridiculous sentence and inconsistent judgement.

Entirely valid sentence.

Millions of people find guns useful and a benefit.

By definition, half the people are below average intelligence. Millions of people are stupid. If you want to give me a logical reason why guns are useful and are a benefit, then go ahead, but trying to convince me that the millions who think guns are good has some sort of validity requires showing me that those people are not just idiots.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

wait until 3D printers are availably cheaply. people will be able to print almost anything they like with blueprints availble online. criminals with the resources will easily be able to print there own weapons and there is very little the J Gov will be able to do to stop it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I hate to see people cheer for using the courts as a place to make examples of people.

Courts are supposed to be about justice, not retribution and not terrorizing the public into compliance by crushing individuals.

Contrary to popular belief, ignorance of the law can be an excuse, particularly if there is obviously no malicious intent.

I think a suspended sentence would have been highly appropriate in this case. Word would have gotten out and it would have been warning enough to the public.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

criminals with the resources will easily be able to print there own weapons and there is very little the J Gov will be able to do to stop it.

They can ramp up the penalties for people caught perpetrating this crime. It won't stop everyone, but it will get those that are stupid enough to do it, and stupid enough to get caught, off the street.

I hate to see people cheer for using the courts as a place to make examples of people.

In a case like this, that is harmful to the fabric of society, it's something that should be cheered. This guy should not have been stupid enough to do it in the first place, and he deserves to be made an example of.

Courts are supposed to be about justice, not retribution and not terrorizing the public into compliance by crushing individuals.

Well, that's the western way of thinking.

I think a suspended sentence would have been highly appropriate in this case. Word would have gotten out and it would have been warning enough to the public.

A suspended sentence not have been appropriate in this case. You are correct however that word would have gotten out - and that word would be that the government gives you a slap on the wrist for creating firearms in Japan.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

While the article doesn't mention the proposed intentions of the creator, it doesn't necessarily mean he had the intention to do harm with it. Maybe more it was meant to make a point of actually being able to do it with this growing technology.

Let me say from experience, the cheap printers this article refers to would produce horrible parts. Tolerance of the parts and overall finish quality would not even be worth it for most people. FDM style 3D printers (which most cheap ones are) lay strands of plastic down like precise hot glue guns. plastic does not fuse together, models have to be printed in certain directions to keep its integrity. Otherwise it'd have to be built somewhat bulky. Things would have to be sanded and fine tuned precisely to work well together. Support features created to support construction of certain surfaces would need to be trimmed away. Sometimes in concave faces or small features with tight 90 degree corners become a pain to clean out. and the the plastic thats laid down across those rafters seem sloppy. the plastic laying down over top of each other can get warped a bit, so things like straightness becomes an issue. In fact the cresent wrench I 3d printed is sitting on my desk here and it has trouble loosening nuts and bolts. An SLA styled printer would be better, but the liquid resin material, itself, isn't as strong I don't think. Small SLA printers cost more money.

With all that said, with a cheap FDM style printer I think it'd take a good amount of work to create something that's fully functional. And something perfectly functional first time, first try. Your average joe wouldn't be going out and doing this. I payed $1700 for my Makerbot Replicator 2 and I'm sure someone could find a gun to purchase for less if they realllly wanted to.

Filthy machines.. haha. I cant believe i read this. You know how much money these filthy machines saves for pre production prototyping? Or how about the one off parts that would cost you a ton to have tooled up and molded? These machines are far from filthy and i think will offer more in the future. the beauty of the machine is to be able to create whatever. With out limits. Designing things to be printed becomes easier than designing things to be tooled.

Working with 3D printed stuff and design/engineering stuff daily, I would have loved to see the link of the uploaded vids. I'd be interested to see the work he'd have to go through and the style of printing machine he used. I don't side with anyone, just giving my knowledge of what I experienced with different types of 3D printers and my experiences with creating functional products.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

wtfjapanOCT. 21, 2014 - 07:59PM JST wait until 3D printers are availably cheaply. people will be able to print almost anything they like with blueprints availble online. criminals with the resources will easily be able to print there own weapons and there is very little the J Gov will be able to do to stop it.

That's what I am trying to say. Incidents like these are likely to make the technology be brought to its coffin . I am hyped for the technology and for the creative things it can do. Imagine all the countless possible things. Like 3D printed shoes, handy tools, cookwares, robot parts, hobby parts, etc . Since it can potential cause harm, it's more likely to be banned or regulated. And we don't want that to happen. Do people want to go to 3D testing center and undergo examination just to get license for the use of the printer, in the future?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It's doubtful 3D printers will be banned. There are too many non-nefarious uses for them. But they will likely continue to (correctly) come down hard on these guys who do print things like guns.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

To those who think this idiot shouldn't have been done... suppose it was bombs he was making and not guns, which could still fire and kill or maim. Plans for bombs are out there... but we would expect loonies making bombs to be locked up... so why not 3D printed firearms?

Sentence was adequate... who knows what he could have done if allowed to continue.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Imura’s lawyers argued that he did not know his acts were illegal, a notion that the court rejected.

...and rightfully so. These were firearms that he created and Japanese law is very clear about who can and cannot be in possession of firearms. For his lawyers to claim he did not know his acts were illegal was pure B.S.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Sentence was over the top. You don't need to jail someone to make a point, especially considering his background and the nature of the case. In the end people will do what they will, regardless of what the 'authorities' say. Then again, whoever said justice had logic?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

and that word would be that the government gives you a slap on the wrist for creating firearms in Japan.

@Strangerland Obviously not or Japan would be a crime ridden place. Japan is famous for suspended sentences. But the truth is that Japanese people are very obedient to authority and pretty much all they need to know is that something is illegal and they won't do it. Russia this isn't.

I would not say its a western way of thinking that the courts are not about making examples of people. It is simply universal to anyone with a fair mind.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I agree, this seems like a bit of an overreaction. Giving him 2 years is harsh, slap him with house arrest, community service, something. Have him go around preaching in schools how bad guns are even if they're not "real". You've ruined what could have been a bright future for this guy all because he was testing blueprints with his 3D printer and sharing his love for this new, fast growing technology.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Sentence was over the top. You don't need to jail someone to make a point, especially considering his background and the nature of the case.

OK, let's consider Imura's background: "a former employee of the Shonan Institute of Technology" who recorded the weapons being created and then posted the video online. (Translation: the man knows his way around the internet and is well versed on the controversy surrounding 3D-printers and weapons)

What if... and this might be considered crazy talk... they jailed him not because they wanted to make a point, but because he broke the law regarding the manufacture and possession of firearms? Or is it your stance that nobody manufacturing illegal lethal weapons should go to jail for their crimes?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

OK, let's consider Imura's background: "a former employee of the Shonan Institute of Technology" who recorded the weapons being created and then posted the video online. (Translation: the man knows his way around the internet and is well versed on the controversy surrounding 3D-printers and weapons)

Right, so not a weapon's dealer, or an employee of any criminal organization, just an academic who was completely upfront about what he was doing. Whether or not he was well-versed in the controversy is just conjecture on your part,

What if... and this might be considered crazy talk... they jailed him not because they wanted to make a point, but because he broke the law regarding the manufacture and possession of firearms? Or is it your stance that nobody manufacturing illegal lethal weapons should go to jail for their crimes?

I don't think it matters if it was to make a point or not, it's stupid no matter what. I'm wondering what the sense is in giving him two years? As another poster mentioned, house arrest? Probation?

Maybe I was being too subtle, but just because something is against the law doesn't mean the law is just. This is a problem in a lot of different countries: zero tolerance legislation that doesn't consider circumstances. The intent of the perpetrator and nuances of each case need to be considered, and unless he had more sinister intentions that we are not being informed about, it doesn't seem they were here.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

You don't need to jail someone to make a point

No, but that doesn't mean that jailing someone doesn't effectively make that point. In this case, it made the point very clear - if you manufacture handguns in Japan, you will be sent to jail. And that's a great point to be making.

In the end people will do what they will, regardless of what the 'authorities' say.

And those people will go to jail, where they deserve to be.

@Strangerland Obviously not or Japan would be a crime ridden place.

And one of the reasons it's not a crime-ridden place is because the judicial system has no tolerance for firearms. This ruling is in line with their stance on that matter. Giving a suspended sentence would have given the wrong message, the message being that they do have some tolerance on this matter. They made the right decision in imprisoning him for two years.

I agree, this seems like a bit of an overreaction.

For creating handguns? Handguns are a scourge on society, that have no place in a healthy society. This was not an overreaction at all. This was the judicial clearly stating what the rules are in Japan, with no wishy-washiness leaving any question. Their stance is very clear - this is not something that will be tolerated at all.

I'm wondering what the sense is in giving him two years?

The sense is in making a clear definitive statement on the position of firearms in Japan - they will not be tolerated. This is the stance every country in the world should be taking on this matter. But at least Japan is smart enough to do so.

Maybe I was being too subtle, but just because something is against the law doesn't mean the law is just.

In this case, the law was most definitely just.

The intent of the perpetrator and nuances of each case need to be considered, and unless he had more sinister intentions that we are not being informed about, it doesn't seem they were here.

Intent is irrelevant in this case. He manufactured an illegal handgun, the very existence of which is a poison to society. He got off lucky with two years.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

No matter the case with guns Strangerland is obviously on the ban all guns side. It`s ok for the cops and feds though because they are entitled to shoot anyone and get away with it.

You`d have to prove that the gun could operate to say it was dangerous. I mean if I carve one out of wood is it a gun?

I have no desire for a gun but owing one is certainly not a poison to millions who use them safely.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

No, but that doesn't mean that jailing someone doesn't effectively make that point. In this case, it made the point very clear - if you manufacture handguns in Japan, you will be sent to jail. And that's a great point to be making.

But WHY? Why not just put him on probation, or give him community service? That would make the same point clear. Tell me why this wouldn't work. Why insist on being harsh just because you think guns are evil?

And those people will go to jail, where they deserve to be.

Subjective.

The sense is in making a clear definitive statement on the position of firearms in Japan - they will not be tolerated. This is the stance every country in the world should be taking on this matter. But at least Japan is smart enough to do so

You don't need to take two years of a person's life to make that point. And, there are circumstances where firearms are useful, especially in rural environments. I'll concede that in Tokyo, I can't see why you would need them, though that doesn't justify the sentence.

In this case, the law was most definitely just.

Intent is irrelevant in this case. He manufactured an illegal handgun, the very existence of which is a poison to society. He got off lucky with two years.

Intent is irrelevant? Just illegal = bad? So there is no difference between someone making a gun out of curiosity or one doing it for the sake of selling them to criminals, use it in violent acts, etc? Absurd. Your view is so one dimensional because of your zealous opposition to firearms, thereby making debate with you futile, since you will never reflect or acknowledge any point made by the other party.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Intent is irrelevant? Just illegal = bad? So there is no difference between someone making a gun out of curiosity or one doing it for the sake of selling them to criminals, use it in violent acts, etc?

Of course intent is irrelevant. The law says you may not possess or manufacture firearms--both of which he is guilty. Your intent with said firearms has nothing to do with the law; you're not allowed to have them without a license--period.

That said, he got off about as lightly as he could have. The penalty for illicit gun possession is 1-15 years. He was caught with two firearms and received two years.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Arrr the yanks make me laugh, In December, "the U.S. Congress renewed a ban on guns that contain no metal" just think about that statment, in the USA its easy to get a real metal gun ,,which you can have, but you can't have a plastic one??? what dumb ass coment is this? you can do a LOT of killing and damage with a real gun, a plastic one you might be able to have one or two shots from it after that it will explode. In the USA they need to tighten up all of the gun laws with immediate effect.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Of course intent is irrelevant. The law says you may not possess or manufacture firearms--both of which he is guilty. Your intent with said firearms has nothing to do with the law; you're not allowed to have them without a license--period.

You're missing the point. I know what the law says, I'm questioning the law itself and the wisdom of how he was sentenced. Two years is too much, straight up. If someone can give me a rational response free of emotion and rhetoric, I'll consider it.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

If someone can give me a rational response free of emotion and rhetoric, I'll consider it.

Here is your rational response: guns have no place in the hands of civilians in a healthy society, and serve no positive purpose whatsoever. Therefore a harsh response is required when someone feels that their desire to create something that harms the very fabric of society takes precedence over the greater good of that society, as a means of showing others the seriousness of these actions, and a warning not to do the same actions.

You will disagree and claim rhetoric, but unless you can provide a good reason for lenience, your argument will sway me as little as mine has swayed you.

The difference being that the law and people of Japan agree with me, not you.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Seems to me he's guilty merely of performing an act of public service. The legal authorities are now aware of how easy it is to manufacture a firearm.

Question is, what are they going to do about it? Locking up a clearly harmless guy achieves nothing.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Claiming he is clearly harmless is ignoring the fact that he has already proven himself harmful by creating firearms in a society where they are banned.

And the idea that 'showing a crime can be perpetuated by doing the crime' as an excuse, is ridiculous. If I go to a store and steal something, then get caught after the fact, trying to say 'but now you know people can steal from your store' is going to fall on deaf ears, and rightly so.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Strangerland

I tend to like and thumbs-up your posts, but can't agree this time.

This chap made his gun and posted himself doing so on the net. Criminals don't tend to publicise their actions.

Gaoling him achives nothing,

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I tend to like and thumbs-up your posts, but can't agree this time.

Thanks!

Criminals don't tend to publicise their actions.

Actually, it happens quite often:

http://theweek.com/article/index/227257/7-suspected-criminals-who-got-themselves-caught-via-facebook http://www.ranker.com/list/15-criminals-that-bragged-just-a-bit-too-much/jf-sargent http://www.mprnews.org/story/2014/05/28/social-media-tool-for-catching-criminals http://listverse.com/2013/07/15/10-criminals-caught-thanks-to-their-own-stupidity/ http://mashable.com/2012/12/12/crime-social-media/

Gaoling him achives nothing,

It does - it takes a weapons producer off the streets, and it sends a message to others who may be considering producing such weapons that this will not be tolerated in Japanese society, and that guns have no place here at all.

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Here is your rational response: guns have no place in the hands of civilians in a healthy society, and serve no positive purpose whatsoever.

It depends on the setting. I'll assume you mean Japan, and not ALL societies. In Tokyo, you don't need a gun for hunting or self defense, in other places, they have a purpose. Be that as it may, in rural Japan firearms might have some use.

Therefore a harsh response is required when someone feels that their desire to create something that harms the very fabric of society takes precedence over the greater good of that society, as a means of showing others the seriousness of these actions, and a warning not to do the same actions. You will disagree and claim rhetoric, but unless you can provide a good reason for lenience, your argument will sway me as little as mine has swayed you.

Why two years? Why not probation, community service such as educating others on the dangers of firearms? Why not one? A month? Half a day? Intent is a crucial part of deciding guilt when crimes are committed, or at least it should be: that is why we don't just execute everyone who breaks the law. Making one out of sheer curiosity, as seems to be the case, is different from harboring the intent to distribute them, or use them in a murder/robbery. Can you admit there is a difference between the two? Why do we need to jail an academic who was bit of a doofus to make a point, when you can save it for the people who actually are a destabilizing influence, and who are doing it for profit or more malicious motives?

As for "harming the fabric of society", society is still functioning, so I see no measurable damage from what he did. Were he mass producing them with the intent of selling them, or even worse parceling them out to people to incite chaos, I would say that his intentions warrant a harsh sentence. Probation is enough for him to understand that he shouldn't do this again.

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Strangerland, as seriously as you take this and firearms in general, can you imagine what a determined guy could do if he bought up all the fireworks sold at the local combinis? And or some gasoline and kerosene? Batteries, timers and wires sold at the home center?

I don't think one would reoffend if he got a verdict of "not guilty". Some token sentence would be acceptable. And even then, your typical citizen would not copy and your typical criminal would not change one way or the other.

Its not like anyone was even remotely close to getting hurt.

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I'll assume you mean Japan, and not ALL societies.

As an ideal, guns have no place in any society. In reality, some places are so corrupt, they will never get rid of guns, and if I were to live in such a country (not that I ever would), I would probably own a gun too.

But that said, my comment was that guns have no place in a healthy society. And that means all healthy societies. Any society that has guns is by definition unhealthy.

in other places, they have a purpose

Yes, killing. Handguns serve no other purpose. Healthy societies don't feel the need to give their populace killing tools that serve no other purpose. I do concede that hunters can use shotguns for hunting, and that there is room to be given for leeway for hunters who do not live in the city. But even then, there should be extremely strict controls on the storage and usage of these guns.

Why two years? Why not probation, community service such as educating others on the dangers of firearms?

Because a non-prison sentence sends the message that you can possess guns, and you will not have to go to jail. That is a weak and diluted response, and not in proportion to the damage that is caused to society by manufacturing guns within that society.

Intent is a crucial part of deciding guilt when crimes are committed, or at least it should be

Not with the manufacturing of guns. Their very existence is harmful to society, whether or not the person has negative intent. The guns can be stolen, children can accidentally get them and shoot each other. Their very existence is a poison that needs to be eradicated. Therefore intent is irrelevant.

Why do we need to jail an academic who was bit of a doofus to make a point, when you can save it for the people who actually are a destabilizing influence

The very creation of the guns is a destabilizing influence, and therefore a harsh punishment is required. That's why we need to jail the academic, doofus or not.

As for "harming the fabric of society", society is still functioning, so I see no measurable damage from what he did.

Any guns harm the fabric of society. The very creation of guns, with a weak punishment if caught, simply encourages more to create guns.

As for 'society is still functioning', American society still functions, even with all their guns. But there is no denying that their country is broken, that they have a gun addiction, and a gun problem. Japan is smart not to wait until they have descended as far down the hole as the Americans. It's kind of like the Ebola thing - if it had been taken care of properly at the start, we wouldn't see it potentially threatening the entire world. The Japanese are smart to stamp out this fire while it's still just a hot-spot. Because once it gets passed that point, it's too far.

can you imagine what a determined guy could do if he bought up all the fireworks sold at the local combinis?

It's a false equivalency. One does not justify the other. And fireworks have a use that is not to kill people, it is to provide entertainment, and is used to that end every year many times. Handguns have one purpose, to kill. Sometimes they are used at firing ranges as well - practicing to kill.

I don't think one would reoffend if he got a verdict of "not guilty".

And it's less likely that he will re-offend having received a verdict of guilty. It's also less likely that others with the same misguided sense of curiosity will follow in his footsteps now, knowing that if they get caught they will face jail time.

Its not like anyone was even remotely close to getting hurt.

You can't know that. Look how many accidental shootings happen in the states every year, by kids playing with guns. And what if someone broke into his house and stole the gun - now it's untracked, and in the hands of a criminal. The guns' very existence harms society. There's no reason to wait until someone actually feels physical pain, to act. The time to act is before anyone gets physically hurt.

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As an ideal, guns have no place in any society. In reality, some places are so corrupt, they will never get rid of guns, and if I were to live in such a country (not that I ever would), I would probably own a gun too. But that said, my comment was that guns have no place in a healthy society. And that means all healthy societies. Any society that has guns is by definition unhealthy.

This isn't a fact.

Healthy societies don't feel the need to give their populace killing tools that serve no other purpose.

Nor is this.

Because a non-prison sentence sends the message that you can possess guns, and you will not have to go to jail. That is a weak and diluted response, and not in proportion to the damage that is caused to society by manufacturing guns within that society.

Conjecture. You can't prove what message is sent or not, nor can you show me how his making of these guns has damaged society at this point (because it hasn't done any!).

Not with the manufacturing of guns. Their very existence is harmful to society, whether or not the person has negative intent. The guns can be stolen, children can accidentally get them and shoot each other. Their very existence is a poison that needs to be eradicated. Therefore intent is irrelevant.

Wow.

The very creation of the guns is a destabilizing influence, and therefore a harsh punishment is required. That's why we need to jail the academic, doofus or not.

Any guns harm the fabric of society. The very creation of guns, with a weak punishment if caught, simply encourages more to create guns. As for 'society is still functioning', American society still functions, even with all their guns. But there is no denying that their country is broken, that they have a gun addiction, and a gun problem. Japan is smart not to wait until they have descended as far down the hole as the Americans. It's kind of like the Ebola thing - if it had been taken care of properly at the start, we wouldn't see it potentially threatening the entire world. The Japanese are smart to stamp out this fire while it's still just a hot-spot. Because once it gets passed that point, it's too far.

And this is why we won't agree. There is no logical reason you can provide for why you support the sentencing - it's all speculation rooted in your personal hatred/fear of guns. Sorry, but 'because guns are evil' isn't enough to convince me of anything. I need facts bro. And the only facts present are that some curious intellectual was playing around and made something he shouldn't have, and has two years of his life taken away when all that was needed was a warning not to do it again.

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There is no logical reason you can provide for why you support the sentencing - it's all speculation rooted in your personal hatred/fear of guns.

Exactly. I do hate guns. There is absolutely nothing good about them.

Sorry, but 'because guns are evil' isn't enough to convince me of anything. I need facts bro.

Good for you. Fortunately I have no need to convince you, because I live in a society that agrees with me, not you. The status quo is already in my favour. So your not being convinced doesn't really matter, does it. You're the one who has the problem with the stays quo, not I. So it's not me that needs to change your mind, it's you who needs to change mine.

the only facts present are that some curious intellectual was playing around and made something he shouldn't have

Yep, and that's the way it should be.

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There is no logical reason you can provide for why you support the sentencing

Sure there is. It is illegal in Japan. Possession of a gun gets the person sentenced to a prison term of more than one year and less that 10 years. This sentence fits that and is actually generous in that the suspect had the potential to have made even more of them which had he done so would have raised the potential sentence to up to 15 years in prison.

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Exactly. I do hate guns.

Right, you have made repeated calls for restrictions to be put on firearms use as well as been highly condescending to owners of firearms. You justify your malicious attitude by attempting to wrap it in some faux "caring about saving people's lives and there is no recreational usage for them" nonsense, while purposefully ignoring any number of behaviors that many (and nearly definitely you) participate in throughout society that kill just as many people if not more people in Japan or any other "civilized/healthy" nation than firearms do in the USA. Such as Alcohol for instance or casual sex

Get over yourself. You do not care about their lives. You hate firearms, you hate the recreational ownership and usage of firearms.

There is absolutely nothing good about them.

Which you obviously know isn't true, other wise Japan and the other healthy nations wouldn't allow civilian ownership of firearms. Tens of millions of Americans use firearms for recreation or to provide food on their table or will in fact use the firearm for self protection on an annual basis, thousands of Japanese tourist on an annual basis will go to Guam, Hawaii, or the mainland of the USA and go to a gun range to target shoot using firearms don't they? Tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of international tourists will go to gun ranges in the USA each year.

Heck targeting shooting is an Olympic sport.

Oh that is right target shooting is just training to kill right Stranger? So if we were to take you to a gun range and put a hand gun in your hand you would think only nothing but homicidal thoughts and you would be more likely to commit a homicide once you left the gun range right? Perhaps you can tell us what the likely hood is that if someone target shoots either with a bow and arrow or a gun that they will make an attempt on someone else's life.

I guess Kyudo that Japanese and all the people who practice it around the world are really just them practicing to kill with a bow and arrow right? Heck I guess those that enjoy fencing are really just practicing to kill people with a sword right?

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How could I get a couple of thumbs down for my response above? The sentencing of this individual makes sense because it falls within the minimum (over a year) and maximum (under 10 years) for possessing a gun. Sorry if you do not like that, but it indeed makes sense.

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Seems to be alot of misinformation here.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkFGEdVQ3U9TtNFwwRGZxKw (Yoshitomo Imura youtube channel)

http://techcrunch.com/2014/05/08/japanese-man-arrested-for-printing-his-own-revolvers/ (has video related)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfOAMQPM7Sw (other video)

=he made a six shot revolver that will not fit under Japan hunting guns purpose. The ammo he fired is blanks and is legal. The six shot revolver is new and innovative for this field (3d gun printing).

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From living in the gun-happy United States, I am glad that Japan is able to take this stand against civilian handgun ownership. No civilian really needs these things in this day and age. You ain't going to be throwing down the government unless you have tanks and aircraft in your basement. As for the penalty, it could have been a lot more, and it is important to set an example to other people trying to skirt the law.

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