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Japan awaits news of hostages as deadline passes

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By MARI YAMAGUCHI and ELAINE KURTENBACH

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The mother apologized for all the trouble her son has caused...that is so uniquely Japanese. One thing is for sure. If they are released, they'll return to Japan in disgrace, bow deeply at a news conference and then go into seclusion (exile) for a couple of months.

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

why shadows on the hostages necks come from different directions? looks like different light sources, or like the guy in tge middle is casting some sort of shadow on them like aura lol.

-8 ( +5 / -10 )

If they are released, they'll return to Japan in disgrace, bow deeply at a news conference and then go into seclusion (exile) for a couple of months.

I totally disagree. They'll be in the media limelight from the get-go. Look how the media treated Issei "Paris Cannibal" Sagawa, who killed and ate a Dutch woman in France -- they media made him into a celebrity.

-5 ( +7 / -11 )

Can anyone explain why the shadows under the men's chins are facing each other? I've worked in video, and the sun here is shining on them from the left and the right. This is obviously a composite video shot, which casts an even longer shadow on this whole affair.

8 ( +9 / -1 )

It's still with great chance that they both are captured by ISIS though.

I can't imagine how tragic it would be for the families of the two though. Soon a child will be officially fatherless and a mother widowed.

-6 ( +3 / -8 )

GalapagosnoGairaishu

No, they won't be in the limelight if they are released. Sagawa's case was completely different and he certainly would not garner that sort of media attention today. The key here is Goto's mother tearfully apologizing for all the trouble her son caused. These two hostages will not be treated as celebrities but suffer tremendous shame, as will their parents.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

why shadows on the hostages necks come from different directions? Can anyone explain why the shadows under the men's chins are facing each other? Good observation gentlemen..you got it!

1 ( +1 / -1 )

Nakata proposed offering $200 million in humanitarian aid to refugees and residents of areas controlled by the Islamic State, through the Red Crescent Society.

Not a good idea. It will be funneled straight to ISIS.

11 ( +12 / -1 )

It was a strange interview, she went on a tangent about nuclear energy in Japan and the future of Japan's children? Also how did she not know her son had a newborn baby?

12 ( +13 / -1 )

heartbreaking

to the people who doubt the video, yes maybe it was shot in a studio, ISIS got millions of dollars to afford proper filming equipment and helps them confuse the enemy to determine their location.... shot in a studio or pre lit... it doesn't matter, they will kill these guys.

11 ( +12 / -2 )

The video was most likely green screen. Its super easy technology to use. Then they wouldnt be able to be pinpointed on a map from the video and moving the hostages would be easy.

2 ( +2 / -1 )

His son no, Japan yes. They are making a point unfortunately these guys were in the wrong place at the wrong time. The other guy is a complete lunatic who cut off his own genitalia and tried to commit suicide, it was almost like he wanted to be caught.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

And maybe the other guy with suicidal tendency would suicide again and if he'd be successful this time, the trouble and the amt of money relayed in his behalf would just really be a waste.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I feel sorry whenever I see parents of IS hostages are interviewed by media. I think this turn of events is a lesson for everyone and sends a strong signal that IS must be destroyed.

...when it is not a problem for most people, they don't care. not until their family, relatives or friends become a victim of IS. I think it won't be long until we see other nationalities being forced to kneel and wear those orange prisoner clothing, threatened with knife, and mutilated....

...funny that IS wants those "humanitarian funds" for them, when they even do inhuman acts of killing.

and there, there's Ko Nakata appealing to save the Japanese hostages? why not do it to James Foley? because they are Japanese and others are "gaijin"? not to mention, Nakata's follower (former JGSDF) was even in contact with other IS members when the first news surfaced about Haruna being captured (and beaten)

0 ( +2 / -2 )

" 'My son is not an enemy of the Islamic State,' Junko Ishido said in a tearful appearance in Tokyo. "

That will impress ISIS... not! I can understand her emotional state, but does she not realize that it does not matter one bit what she says?

Again, we have this spectacle of Westerns grovelling to the ISIS barbarians in their own countries, in the futile hope that that somehow changes anything. Sad on so many levels.

4 ( +7 / -5 )

My J wife took one look at Goto's mother on TV this morning and muttered that they should not be showing her like this.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

why not do it to James Foley?

Why is Japan responsible for trying to save James Foley? The US government should have done something.

3 ( +4 / -2 )

"My J wife took one look at Goto's mother on TV this morning and muttered that they should not be showing her like this."

As heartbreaking as it is, it was her choice. Or did she mean the media or gov't should have prevented it?

I'm reminded of the grief of Megumi Yokota's parents, how horribly it's still exploited after so many years. But that's what the media lives on.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

They are spy's and were caught, the government wants them back, who could start a company that is multinational security company related without the consent of the Government? Or am I nieve to think that the J Government so pathetic it has no idea about what it's citizens do, they are in their 40s not children armed in a war zone. There is a lot missing from this story.

-17 ( +0 / -17 )

The Japan Times had an article about the shadows... <http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2015/01/23/national/video-japanese-hostages-really-shot-outside/#.VMHB7FrMQ5s

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Very sad. I do hope the Japanese government is doing all it can, but as is said in the article it is a desperate situation, and there's nothing short of Abe taking back everything he's said and offered that would have any impact, even if they decided foolishly to pay the randsom. I feel sorry for the families of those kidnapped, as I cannot imagine their worry and pain, and also because I don't see any good outcome. IS is not the type to really negotiate or let captives go.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

If these two die all hell will break lose , this is war

-17 ( +3 / -18 )

It is sad to see family distant from each other, as in the case with her not knowing about her newborn grandchild. Yet, in spite of it all, including her unrelated topics on the situation, glad that in times of real need, she steps up in his defense and support.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Well, they brought it on themselves.

Haruna Yukawa is a Japanese transgender and nationalist right winger who started the petition to cancel the Kono Statement and called the Korean comfort women, frauds. His blog entry written 2 years ago is found here

http://ameblo.jp/private-military/entry-11736179200.html

He founded a private military company, and worked as a hired mercenary. But he never fired a gun in his life.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/japanese-isis-hostage-syria-prisoner-article-1.2086502

I guess it just wasn't enough for him to be a keyboard warrior, he had live out his fantasy as a tough Japanese warrior. But the bumbling Otaku got captured easily, and now is about lose his head.

They call this, "karma".

1 ( +10 / -10 )

Perhaps some of IS's more liberal and open-minded members read Al Jazeera.

This is on today's front page:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2015/01/japanese-hostage-enemy-muslims-150123030358038.html

1 ( +1 / -0 )

As if not being an enemy of IS will change their mind. this is all about shocking and trying to convince public opinion of their fearlessness and the wrong decisions being made by Western (and now Japanese) governments..... the hostages motivations and all are incidental to the narrative IS is trying to create.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

“My son felt he had to do everything in his power to try to rescue a friend and acquaintance,” Junko Ishido said.

How can some continue their disparagement of these victims? These are human beings. What purpose does mocking these men, these hostages, serve? In the end, at long last, is there no decency? ISIS must love that, well done, hating on the victims. Unbelievable.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Haruna had no business being there. And the "friend" had no business going on his own to try and help him/her. I, for one, do not want a single yen of taxes I paid to the J government paid to the kidnappers for bone-headed decisions these guys made. Sorry to mother of the journalist, but he is an adult and made the choice to go there by himself.

That said, I'm glad some Japanese are making efforts to plead with the kidnappers (in Arabic no less) to reconsider things. But in reality, the only alternative to paying the kidnappers that might be effective is arranging a prisoner swap via a third party who actually has prisoners worth swapping to them (i.e., the U.S.).

6 ( +6 / -0 )

This two are as good as dead, I am sorry for them but that will not help them. It is the time mentally disturbed killers get whipped out and Japan has full right to rain hell and fire on them. Killing even one Japanese or holding them as hostages is an act of war against Japan and Japan has a duty to defend itself.

-2 ( +2 / -3 )

I feel for the mother, I truly do. She wants her son back home, safe and sound.

But, in what world is giving terrorists what they demand a good idea? Especially terrorists who have massacred women because they were educated or forced children to execute others or killed young men for watching a football match.

Strong democratic countries should unite, surround this group, close in on them, and wipe IS out.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Abe should offer 200 million bucks to whoever can bring him Jihadi John's head in a bag. That would be a good use of taxpayers' money.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

IS doesn't care at all who is their enemy. Anyone who is not IS is their enemy. It's time some US special forces show up and wipe those terrorists off the world.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Sorry for the mother, but sometimes the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

“Time is running out. Please, Japanese government, save my son’s life,”

No worries, PM Abe is going to lead the crack rescue team.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

CGB Spender:

" Anyone who is not IS is their enemy. It's time some US special forces show up and wipe those terrorists off the world. "

Oh sure. And after those miraculous US forces go in, and ISIS disappears, then what? You want the US to occupy and administer Eastern Syria and Western Iraq forever? Schemes like that have worked wonderfully before, haven´t they.

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

Deadline is an unfortunate choice of word in this headline.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Actually I'm starting to get worried that PM Abe has not ordered a crack rescue team to try to rescue these guys.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

No news is good news?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Serrano.

Does anyone know where the Hostages are being and under what conditions?

Add in planning a rescue mission, getting the troops in position without losing the element if surprise.

Real life military works different than what you see in movies, they don't just hop in a transport and go all hung ho and Roooaah.

Also don't forget that the current constition forbids armed action.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

They won't be released. Abe needs the video of their deaths to push forward with a more multi rises and flexible constitution. This is tailored and personalized for the Japanese public. I'm sure there are others that feel this way on Jt but our comments continue to be deleted.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Serrano: "No worries, PM Abe is going to lead the crack rescue team."

yeah, a 'crack rescue team' of panelists to discuss how they can twist this towards support of arms sales to the enemies of IS as well as revision to the constitution, definitely. Beyond that, we're just going to hear more about his 'forceful peace' and other garbage that has helped land this situation in what it's in.

I'm afraid the two are likely already dead. And they were fools for going there, especially the first one -- who cut off his genitals and started his own arms company to sell over there. Idiot. Sorry for the family, but I doubt it's going to come out well.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

"Real life military works different than what you see in movies, they don't just hop in a transport and go all hung ho and Roooaah."

I did say "try to rescue these guys." They could at least assemble the team and try to find them and rescue them.

"Also don't forget that the current constition forbids armed action."

This is where the current constitution needs to be changed.

"And they were fools for going there, especially the first one -- who cut off his genitals and started his own arms company to sell over there. Idiot"

Jeeze, smith, you have no empathy at all for these men, do you?

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

Japan can't pay the ransom... As horrible as it feels to say that, $200m will buy an awful lot of weapons to kill even more people with.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

SerranoJan. 23, 2015 - 04:16PM JST I did say "try to rescue these guys." They could at least assemble the team and try to find them and rescue them.

Even assuming this could be done with the current constitution, and assuming anyone knew where they were, throwing together an operation in less than 72 hours in a country you have no presence in let alone a local intelligence network, is just a really good way to end up with more of your soldiers as hostages of the enemy.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

200 million is nothing to ISIS. It s the publicity they want. World wide publicity. They know Japan will not pay as they are aligned with the Americans. Sorry to say it but the inevitable is not far away. Just pay the money and save your citizens Japan. Do the right thing.

-4 ( +1 / -4 )

In very japanese fashion - naïvely going off to dangerous places.

-2 ( +3 / -4 )

In the case of Haruna, who has no legitimate reason (like reporting as a journalist) to go, he has all the responsibility for whatever happens to him. The fact that after naïvely going for the first time and getting into trouble, he goes back again - criminally insane or Darwin Award winner?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The deadline to pay for one who is fascinated by war, the other a journalist. Well that is the price of war so why should the nation pay? You go looking for trouble and sticking a nose where it doesn't belong and your only going to find what you bargained for, in this case their heads. And that photo of Muslims praying for them is all fake, these people don't care about living or being in Japan or its way of life for them its about changing the entire world to a Muslim world that's it. Bye bye Buddha..

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"They know Japan will not pay as they are aligned with the Americans. Sorry to say it but the inevitable is not far away. Just pay the money and save your citizens Japan. Do the right thing."

The right thing is to pay terrorists $200,000,000 so they can fortify themselves with whatever and kidnap more people? Really?

3 ( +4 / -2 )

"My J wife took one look at Goto's mother on TV this morning and muttered that they should not be showing her like this."

Then how, pray tell, was she supposed to make her appeal to the terrorists? Dress up and wear make-up?

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It seems almost nothing Japan can do about this terrible hostage situation and no one can let them free though Japan will try to contact with the IS group. No one can contact with them because the IS group is not well organized. Time just goes by whatever happens to the hostages.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The right thing is to pay terrorists $200,000,000 so they can fortify themselves with whatever and kidnap more people? Really?

I agree. Paying them is about the single worst thing that can be done. It gives them money with which to fight, thereby causing the deaths of many, in order to save the lives of two. And on top of that, it tells ISIS that kidnapping is a good way to get money, ensuring that they will kidnap more in the future for financial profit.

It's sad for these two guys, but they made their choice, and unfortunately they will pay for their bad choices with their lives. I feel for their friends and their family, but let's not pay for their lives with the lives of others.

3 ( +3 / -1 )

Well, they brought it on themselves.

This is true.

Haruna Yukawa is a Japanese transgender and nationalist right winger who started the petition to cancel the Kono Statement and called the Korean comfort women, frauds.

This is irrelevant. ISIS doesn't give a toss about East Asian politics.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Whenever I see articles on this topic, one question remains.

Why is the ISIS given so much publicity?

Of course the ISIS murders are an atrocity.

But death is death, however it's done. And thousands die each year at the end of a US drone.

Suspected terrorists are killed (untried in a court of law) and so is anyone who happens to be in the vicinity, children, babies, whatever.

Not much fuss is made about this, but the slaughter continues.

So, I wonder why all the publicity?

Perhaps there is an ulterior motive on the part of the media?

-10 ( +0 / -11 )

If ISIS release,in Syrian behead, ISIS will be immediate target by CIA or similar NSA organization agents, If they kill hostages, same. There is no news yet in USA/

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@Zaphod

Option available:

Sit a watch while the IS is continuing to terrorize the world. Try to stop IS by military force.

Sorry! No other option available! Or do you have anything better than these two to suggest? And nope, the IS wont start to be peaceful by themselves.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Onone of CNN (FOX) bottom message stated that ISIS released new video and a message of "Count down begun: So it sems they are safe yet. Maybe new video will have different clothes than old old orange colored US prison uniform.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The CBC reported yesterday that the government of Japan knew of the hostages months ago and could have paid a much smaller ransom at that time. Why is this not reported in the Japanese news or have I just missed it?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I suspect these poor men are dead which would explain the silence. I hope it isn't so but when it comes to these monsters. They dont seem to bluff.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The Japanese enjoy a considerable amount of "goodwill" in the Arab world, so Abe must tread carefully so as not squander this capital. Instead of paying ransom money to the Sunni IS, why doesn't he rescind his decision to give $200 million to the Shia government in Baghdad etc. and withdraw with good grace from this sectarian conflict? This solution might save face for all parties and result in the release of the hostages at no cost to us taxpayers. The only parties to object to this kind of solution would be the hawks who, to further their own agenda, want the Japanese government to go fishing in the already crowded and muddied waters of the Middle East.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

One of CNN (FOX) bottom message stated that ISIS released new video and a message of "Count down begun: So it seems they are safe yet. Maybe new video will have different clothes than old old orange colored US prison uniform.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

It seems that Japan would pay ransom for releasing 2 hostages but not 200 million whatever US and UK say to Japan, if hostages are still alive and Japan can contact with the IS group, they would negotiate ransom and pay it in secret. Japan would officially say it did not pay ransom when they were released alive.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Just pay the 200 million and feel dignified and honourable in that you saved citisens of your country.

-14 ( +1 / -14 )

Just pay the 200 million and feel dignified and honourable in that you saved citisens of your country.

And how are they supposed to feel when that money is used to buy weapons to kill innocents? Or are you preaching an 'out of sight, out of mind' way of thinking?

7 ( +7 / -0 )

@Hotmail

Well, they brought it on themselves.

Haruna Yukawa is a Japanese transgender and nationalist right winger who started the petition to cancel the Kono Statement and called the Korean comfort women, frauds. His blog entry written 2 years ago is found here

I guess it just wasn't enough for him to be a keyboard warrior, he had live out his fantasy as a tough Japanese warrior. But the bumbling Otaku got captured easily, and now is about lose his head.

They call this, "karma".

I also question Yukawa's irresiponsible behavior but your comment is pretty sickening, too. His political/historical perspective has absolutely nothing to do with this. So, Goto, being Christian and pacifist, somehow doesn't share every ideology with you, hence is about to be excuted as well? Because YOU call this, "karma?"

Tell me, then, what is the difference between your wacky you-are-right-winger-so-you-deserve-this idea and ISIS's practice?

Were you one of few who waved "We Celebrate Japan's Earthquake" flag just because Japan is evil and never apologizes and never admits and never conpemsates?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Abe and his crack rescue team oh no thats the most worrying thing ive heard all week

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Here also some users are terror ideology and they defending ISIS. If someone comment against of ISIS then they will unlike. Your ideology will destroy yourself rather than others

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

wtfjapan,

Abe and his crack rescue team oh no thats the most worrying thing ive heard all week

Don't worry.

There is absolutely no danger of that happening. Abe hasn't even got the cohones to face the Governor of Okinawa, let alone ISIS rebels.

It's an interesting thought though.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

NHK middle east expert says that because King Abdulah died, that story is getting all the attention. They will announce what happened after this story has died down and they can be sure that the story gets lots of attention. That sounded good to me.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It's real simple! They new what they were getting into and as a result they got pinched. Now we have the mother of the freelance journalist asking Japan to pay two hundred million dollars for her sons stupidity. lol.............

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

They are not killed. CNN news displayed video and had comments. The video was is same but this one showed the center man blandish short knives (shorter than Japanese shorter katanas samurai wore. And center guys; shadow was on his back moving, So, it looks like the place has three suns, One in front, one on left and one on right. The arms of hostages looked like behind. Maybe tied? The way knives were used by center guy, if no one is nearvby, two could punch the bottom center part of this guy and throw knife out. So, I assume they were surrounded by people. CNN commenters explained a representative of ISIS got in toucvh of NHK and commenter think this ISIS representative is not from Syria but Japan friendly real ISIS stuffs that operate Cude oil business. And he said that Japan has been trying to rescue them withot paying any money. Japan expressed that it has no plan to pay money and working to get release of these two people. They said Goto and baby story. It showed Goto's videps in Japan and also showed Yukawa's video nearby military type truck. They are bit guessing if two will be released or not. They are just digging connection of ISIS spokes person and Japan.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Paying them is about the single worst thing that can be done. It gives them money with which to fight, thereby causing the deaths of many, in order to save the lives of two. And on top of that, it tells ISIS that kidnapping is a good way to get money, ensuring that they will kidnap more in the future for financial profit.

It's sad for these two guys, but they made their choice, and unfortunately they will pay for their bad choices with their lives. I feel for their friends and their family, but let's not pay for their lives with the lives of others.

This is a defining moment, I almost never agree with you on anything, but on this, you are 100% correct on every point. That's just about all they are going to do with the cash. $200 buys you a lot and they definitely won't use it to build a proper and much needed infrastructure for that country. And if they are released, you know full well that money was exchanged, there is no way they would release them otherwise and that will encourage them to kidnap more Japanese and demand even higher ransom money. I really feel for these guys and their families but they made the conscience decision to go there and they knew the risk.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Then how, pray tell, was she supposed to make her appeal to the terrorists? Dress up and wear make-up?

I didn't watch the original interview, but my j-wife said it was really weird. she didn't even know she had a new grand-child until after the fact, and she starting rambling about nuclear power. For some reason, they have deleted that part from the articles, but I still found some even in English on google's cache.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

CNN, her Japanese speech was narrated to very good translation in English, Media did not insult Japanese way of expressing her feelings and kind of sympathetic to her.

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

@tecxhall: Then how, pray tell, was she supposed to make her appeal to the terrorists? Dress up and wear make-up?

''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''

Who do you recommend. ? Didn;t her son captured by terroorists?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Sad for this mother, but her son should not have gone to dangerous areas.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yet the Middle East wonder why the U.S. military armed forces are always killing their people and bombing theor country. Taking out innocent people from any country for you selfishness only give more reasons why the Middle East will continue to suffer.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

When people travel (especially to dangerous areas) they should sign a disclaimer agreeing that no ransom will be paid for them and that they are traveling at their OWN RISK. Otherwise, the resources of ALL - including those poorer or weaker - are compromised

0 ( +0 / -0 )

So how are they suppose to give them the money?? By Terrorist Debit Card? If I was the minister, I would rather ignore this situation. The 2 hostages put themselves in that situation especially when war was going. Why must the minister risk other people's lives to go save them. And moderator don't delete my comment because I did not say anything inappropriate or off topic compared to everyone else who say worse things than me.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Yet the Middle East wonder why the U.S. military armed forces are always killing their people and bombing theor country. Taking out innocent people from any country for you selfishness only give more reasons why the Middle East will continue to suffer.

It's a shame, but it's the hard truth. For a group of countries that used to be colonized, they are the least capable of living in the reality of the 21st Century. Those countries will earn no sympathy whatsoever until the locals decide to grow a pair and do whatever is necessary to ban those crazies from their world just as other nations did in the past to get rid of their radical elements for the future's sake.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

You cannot reason with psychopaths. Japan, your people are not coming back. What we are seeing is a nexus of evil, drawing like a magnet psychopaths from around the world. They need to be eliminated with extreme prejudice as soon as possible. If not they will spread like an aggressive cancer throughout the world. It's easy to be Evil. And these folks have given up trying to be good. We, the rest of the world, need to recognize this d disease like a doctor would and remove the disease from the body. While it is a difficult decision. the leaders of the world can't give in to paying ransoms, whatever that cost may be, or there will be more and more of these murders.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Why is Japan responsible for trying to save James Foley? The US government should have done something.

destruction of a terrorist group like ISIS is a shared responsibility. US govt isn't a superman of nations. so, any nation not a victim of ISIS isn't responsible, and could care less... until one day, their citizens become a victim.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Saudi Arabia King passed away. Saudi Arabia produce more oil than any other countries. The King was against Assad and supported rebels. When I read the article that stated one ISIS spokesperson said that ISIS has $ 200 million a day income, I wrote ISIS people can't do arithmetic but after I learned how many barrels Saudi produce oil a day and ISIS has business of illegal crude oil, I realize I was wrong. It seems deadline s extended and they are alive.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

remote islands attract pirates why is this one different?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The only ones winning here Will be politician

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

JandworldJAN. 24, 2015 - 05:08PM JST The only ones winning here Will be politician

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;

There is no war to win of lose HERE

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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