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Nissan document signed by Ghosn said remuneration 'determined'

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They were suspended sentences:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-23156879

0 ( +0 / -0 )

mu-daToday 03:42 pm JST

I dont get why people always bring up Olympus? The execs weren't "just let go" Three of the Japanese execs involved were found guilty and sentenced to 2.5 - 4 years in prison.

They got suspended sentences. In other words, they were "just let go", albeit with a slap on their hands.

I don't think so since criteria for obtaining a suspended sentence is it is his/her first conviction and the sentence is under three years.

If you the court comes sentence a four year sentence then that person is not eligible for suspended sentence.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I dont get why people always bring up Olympus? The execs weren't "just let go" Three of the Japanese execs involved were found guilty and sentenced to 2.5 - 4 years in prison.

They got suspended sentences. In other words, they were "just let go", albeit with a slap on their hands.

And the 3 execs were arrested after more than 3 months of waffling by prosecutors and Tokyo police and only after the international spotlight would not dim and the FBI got involved.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

And Saikawa signed it so lock his smug arse up pronto!

Agree 100%

Why has he not been "charged"?  Are there two sets of laws on the books?  One for us and one for them?

S

5 ( +5 / -0 )

It described his total pay as "determined," the amount actually paid out as "fixed," and the amount not yet paid as "postponed," according to the sources.

The prosecutors regard the document as evidence that Ghosn's remunerations, including the deferred pay, were signed off and that he intended to falsify securities reports, they said.

The prosecutors have also seized an employment agreement document signed by Nissan CEO Hiroto Saikawa and former Nissan representative director Greg Kelly, who was arrested for alleged conspiracy with Ghosn.

sigh this is silly

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Keeping someone imprisoned when innocent, is trying to inflict psychological torture, the state of mind becomes desperate and they would say hai hai to anything. Hence the reason why him and Kelly are in imprisoned. It is clearly a set up and one where no evidence of the bogus claims being presented. This is truly no democracy.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

And the Lawyers and CFO signatures? he signed something that multiple parties asked him to sign.. thats generally the case with publicly trading companies, everything is public domain for shareholders..

3 ( +3 / -0 )

ipanema : since the contract is written in Japanese and Ghosn cannot understand Japanese he is free to go and the contract is not binding.

Read the article.

Ghosn signed a contract written in ENGLISH - a language he understands,

BUT, as Triring (above) points out, the J multi-national contracts are written in both Japanese & ENGLISH for the benefit of all signatories.

He is also being tortured and not allowed access to any lawyer

He is NOT being "tortured" !

Give it a rest already !!!!!

He gets a string of visits ( though brief) from illustrious foreign emissaries from, particularly Brazil,Lebanon and France who have (especially) his business interests at heart.

Moreover, Ghosn has retained one of the most pre-eminent Japanese defense attorneys - AND is given opportunity to consult with this Japanese lawyer .

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

So, remind me again...

How is all of this information ending up being leaked to the press?!?!

I mean, aren't criminal matters supposed to be kept confidential?!

Which means that someone in the prosecutor's office / the police is leaking....

To what end?!?

To "convict" him before there is even a trial, of course!!

This isn't justice.... its a hit job, pure and simple!!

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Why? He did nothing wrong by signing it. Its an acknowledgement of the remuneration for Ghosn. His signing states his approval of the agreed upon terms.

He did nothing wrong in signing it. But he did do something wrong in signing off the securities report as "accurate".

If Ghosn decided to not follow those terms and under-report how much he was earning, thats on him. Not Saikawa.

Again, it was Saikawa, not Ghosn, who declared the report as "accurate" after having signed the agreement with Ghosn. If Ghosn's remuneration is mis-stated in the report, that is on Saikawa.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Agree with other posters, since the contract is written in Japanese and Ghosn cannot understand Japanese he is free to go and the contract is not binding. This is common sense in all civilized countries around the world, except in backward Japan unfortunately.

He is also being tortured and not allowed access to any lawyer in order to force a false confession

6 ( +7 / -1 )

Japanese execs possibly cannot read complex English, and would had their Han & Ghosn signature on Japanese copies.

I believe the contract in which was signed was in both English and Japanese. Two copies would be needed to complete a contract in which both parties secure a copy.

I believe the prosecutors are frantically trying to obtain Ghosn's copy since they already have Nissan's copy and why the judge has not released Ghosn since he may destroy the copy he has in his possession to make the contract binding.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

expat:

Documents written in English have no legal standing in Japan if there is a corrolary document in Japanese. A first year law student would know this.

It is significant because Ghosn CANNOT READ Japanese. I was written in English for his benefit, o he knew what he was signing.

Japanese execs possibly cannot read complex English, and would had their Han & Ghosn signature on Japanese copies.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

It really doesn't matter whether documents are written in English or Japanese. The really matter is Ghosn himself signed the documents of fixed remuneration or not. The documents are written in English hidden in the secret safe. It seems no one easily can noticed his fixed remuneration.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Carbon date the ink.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

@expat,

Surely a Japanese copy exists as well.

Still sounds like an attempt at overthrowing Ghosn by Nissan and now that the prosecutors high rate of conviction is on the line they are reaching for anything they can.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Documents written in English have no legal standing in Japan if there is a corrolary document in Japanese. A first year law student would know this.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

“Intended to falsify”, where these people when Olympus and Toshiba scandal surfaced. Those companies have done more then “intended” it’s proven and those companies execs have confessed but they just let it go.

I dont get why people always bring up Olympus? The execs weren't "just let go" Three of the Japanese execs involved were found guilty and sentenced to 2.5 - 4 years in prison.

And Saikawa signed it so lock his smug arse up pronto

Why? He did nothing wrong by signing it. Its an acknowledgement of the remuneration for Ghosn. His signing states his approval of the agreed upon terms. If Ghosn decided to not follow those terms and under-report how much he was earning, thats on him. Not Saikawa.

"Settled" also means to pay. So even tho it is determined, it has not been paid yet. Hence, not settled.

That's just a bit grasping at straws isnt it? Settled in the general sense of the word means "to resolve or reach an agreement".

[Ghosn] has admitted to prosecutors that his pay was not entirely stated in the reports but claims he had no obligation to do so as the amount of his pay after retirement had not been settled.

News flash, in Japanese law you still have to report it. You can't just NOT report it at all. You report what has been decided at that time of filing.

The former Nissan chairman has told prosecutors that whether he can receive the post-retirement pay depends on the performance of the automaker at the time of his departure

"Whether he can" Not how much he receives. Basically he had a set amount that he would receive, NOT stock options, that would be released or not depending on the position of the automaker at his departure. That's a settled amount of pay, not a fluctuating one.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

The great setup continues...those Oyajis are really going all out on this one...

4 ( +8 / -4 )

So let me get this straight, Ghosn will now spend Christmas and new year in a holding cell for the alleged crime of signing off and not declaring money that he hasn’t even received yet? Post retirement remuneration?

Someones having a laugh right?

Happy New Years to all the executives and architects of this discgrace at Nissan. Hope the sake tastes good fellas. Enjoy ne!

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Several people are talking about tax. As far as I understand it, this is NOT a taxation issue, it's about Nissan's reporting requirements as a public company.

(That aside, it is ludicrous that he has now been locked up for a month and counting over this - in any civilized justice system he would have been bailed long ago)

6 ( +9 / -3 )

If there is a clear document and Ghosn himself signed it , it seems to be a part of evidences that explains his remuneration is fixed. It looks like No way out.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

The prosecutors regard the document as evidence that Ghosn's remunerations, including the deferred pay, were signed off and that he intended to falsify securities reports, they said.

“Intended to falsify”, where these people when Olympus and Toshiba scandal surfaced. Those companies have done more then “intended” it’s proven and those companies execs have confessed but they just let it go.

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Doubtful any of this has anything to do with illegal paperwork. Collusion between Nissan, prosecutors and must of at some point got tacit approval from a government agency. At least it shows the legal system is far from independent. The suprise it just how far from independent.

8 ( +8 / -0 )

And Saikawa signed it so lock his smug arse up pronto!

9 ( +13 / -4 )

“Postponed, determined post-retirement pay depend[ing] on the performance of the automaker at the time [of Ghosn’s retirement].”

Very, very shaky grounds for an indictment claiming Ghosn understated this obviously fluid post-retirement remuneration.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

"Settled" also means to pay. So even tho it is determined, it has not been paid yet. Hence, not settled.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

If the remuneration Ghosn was set to receive was in the form of stock options, then the actual amount of money he would get was not clear, .... I think somebody needs to explain what a stock option is to the Tokyo prosecutors.

Was it stock options or not? If not, that was a long at largely irrelevant paragraph.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Determined and actually paid are different things. I cannot understand how you can be taxed on an IOU or promissory note unless it was signed by the government.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

"The Japanese Cabinet Office ordinance linked to the financial exchange law says remuneration needs to be disclosed in a securities report when the actual sum of the payment becomes clear, even if the actual payout is planned in the future."

If the remuneration Ghosn was set to receive was in the form of stock options, then the actual amount of money he would get was not clear, because that would depend on the performance of Nissan and the stock price at the time he cashes in the options. After all this mess, that amount is likely going to be a lot lower than expected, possibly even zilch if the company goes bankrupt. I think somebody needs to explain what a stock option is to the Tokyo prosecutors.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

The Japanese Cabinet Office ordinance linked to the financial exchange law says remuneration needs to be disclosed in a securities report when the actual sum of the payment becomes clear, even if the actual payout is planned in the future.

So, is this document they found supposed to be the "smoking gun" evidence of guilt?

Even the document itself seems ambiguous if it has different sums annotated, and that itself seems to me at least, to be the defense that Ghosen has when he says it wasnt determined.

What is he supposed to do? Report all three? Which one is for tax purposes NOW?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

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