crime

Nissan employee testifies against former exec Kelly at trial

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By YURI KAGEYAMA

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Sham of a trial

11 ( +24 / -13 )

Prosecutors have not explained how trying to avoid disclosure of unpaid compensation constitutes a crime.

roll eyes

12 ( +22 / -10 )

Prosecutors have not explained how trying to avoid disclosure of unpaid compensation constitutes a crime. Prosecution for falsifying financial reports is rare in Japan.

So, what this says is that prosecutors are being very selective in just who they choose to charge with a financial crime here.

It also says, reading between the lines, that they overlook Japanese who are guilty, and specifically targeted these two!

17 ( +27 / -10 )

I hope most of the readers understand what is happening here. Ghosn and Kelly have both declared their innocence and they did not break under police pressure.

So the court is allowing Nissan to tell their story for them. It's pretty a confession written by Nissan for Ghosn and Kelly. No one at Nissan is going to be convicted, just Kelly and Ghosn. It will all be false, but that's the narrative that Nissan wants to be submitted to the court.

This kind of case shows us how Japanese companies will throw someone under the bus. Who Framed Roger Rabbit....hmmm

11 ( +25 / -14 )

So Onuma will be charged as well?

Prosecutors have not explained how trying to avoid disclosure of unpaid compensation constitutes a crime. Prosecution for falsifying financial reports is rare in Japan.

No falsifications just undisclosed in order to protect the delicate egos of other envious Japanese executives making ten times less than Ghosn.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Surely the HR manager had a responsibility to say no if it was deemed illegal? His responsibility to sign off.

Ghosn and Kelly could ask for whatever they wanted. But the HR professional just had to say no.

19 ( +24 / -5 )

Redtail SwiftToday  04:25 pm JST

I hope most of the readers understand what is happening here. Ghosn and Kelly have both declared their innocence and they did not break under police pressure.

So the court is allowing Nissan to tell their story for them

Some readers are able to think for themselves. The prosecution has/is presenting it's arguments. After that the defense will respond and present their arguments. Kelly will have his turn to advocate his innocence. Ghosn on the other hand threw away that chance by jumping bail. Best learn something about how court processes work.

6 ( +17 / -11 )

Best learn something about how court processes work.

oh like detaining you indefinitely without charge!? or until a confession is forced!?

4 ( +16 / -12 )

wtfjapanToday  05:23 pm JST

Best learn something about how court processes work.

oh like detaining you indefinitely without charge!? or until a confession is forced!?

Neither of those are part of the Court Process.

7 ( +16 / -9 )

Prosecutors have not explained how trying to avoid disclosure of unpaid compensation constitutes a crime.

If we accept the premise that paid compensation needs to be disclosed, then the question is why unpaid compensation is OK. There's already an intention to pay it, otherwise there will be no compensation at all, rather than "unpaid compensation". Though the exact value and payment procedure is not finalized, it nevertheless constitutes a known obligation, a known company expense.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

If there is concern about the illegitimacy of the legal system, then the trail should be conducted in an independent country, consistent with Japanese law, & let both sides make their case. That said, those that were allegedly conspiring to pay Ghosn in "alternative" ways should ALL be subject to the same treatment as Kelly unless they disagreed and extracted themselves from the process.

They were ALL part of the management structure and to a greater or lesser degree, are ALL responsible & involved!

If they thought what was happening was illegal or untoward, they could have reported it or removed themselves - which none did.

It is unreasonable to suggest that two foreigners (one who rescued Nissan and spent 17 years as a rock-star in Japan), could act alone and without any knowledge or participation by Japanese members of staff. Therefore, either both If there is concern about the illegitimacy of the legal system, then the trail should be conducted in an independent country, consistent with Japanese law, & let both sides make their case. That said, those that were allegedly conspiring to pay Ghosn in "alternative" ways should ALL be subject to the same treatment as Kelly unless they disagreed and extracted themselves from the process.

They were ALL part of the management structure and to a greater or lesser degree, are ALL responsible & involved!

If they thought what was happening was illegal or untoward, they could have reported it or removed themselves - which none did.

Either the foreigners & their Japanese colleagues are guilty, or the foreigners and Japanese colleagues are NOT guilty. It cannot be both ways.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

I think most people agree he was stealing from both the rich and poor, after a fashion, but in exactly the same way as all the other executives, especially in Japan.

I don't fully agree with that. While there are all kinds of shenanigans in Japanese companies, I'd say it is not generally for massive personal gain. (It's more likely to be about preserving personal status.) It's easy to imagine bad feelings among Japanese staff at Nissan about the levels of compensation intended for Ghosn. On the other hand, I couldn't say whether that was the motivation behind the prosecution. If it was, it seems a clumsy way to handle it.

7 ( +7 / -0 )

Neither of those are part of the Court Process.

it is if they force a confession from you, anyways I dont really like Ghosn, just like J justice being exposed for their hypocrisy

0 ( +10 / -10 )

What a crock of crap this whole trial is still waiting for Saikawa to be charged with the same offences that they charged Ghosn with.....nothing like a good brown envelope at golf to sort your problems out....

7 ( +10 / -3 )

Hopefully Nissan can soon financially consolidate and concentrate again on what it is made for, developing mobility concepts and producing automobiles. That fight at the courts with Ghosn, other former managers and so on doesn’t bring the company further, won’t help the business and the employees and binds too much money and effort ressorces. Senseless ‘warfare’ at unknown fronts, that...

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The criminals here are the prosecutors and the Nissan conspirators.

The saddest part is that Kelly will be convicted at the end.

The funniest is that with his conviction all the MOJ will collapse.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

wtfjapanToday  06:24 pm JST

Neither of those are part of the Court Process.

it is if they force a confession from you, anyways I dont really like Ghosn, just like J justice being exposed for their hypocrisy

No it isn't. The results of a formal questioning (which may or may not include a confession) can be submitted by the Prosecution in the Court Process as an exhibit to support their case. But the questioning itself is not part of the Court Process. The Japanese legal system has flaws, but misunderstanding it doesn't help.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

I can see from many of the replies to this report that most people are in the dark regarding the reasons for this and the deals already cut with prosecutors To avoid prosecution prior to the arrests of Ghosn and Kelly.

I would suggest you follow the excellent link below which actually now clears up many aspects of this rotten affair. Especially the link at the very bottom to the Actual Bloomberg report.

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/08/29/nissan-carlos-ghosn-coup-hari-nada/

This link was originally kindly provided by samurasuki in a post of his in a previous article on this subject.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

If Ghosn and Kelly are guilty then so is Saikawa. Conversely, if Saikawa is innnocent then so are Ghosn and Kelly. Japanese justice being cherry picked on grand display to the world.

16 ( +17 / -1 )

DukeletoToday  06:52 pm JST

I've read it. As far as what he did to Ghosn is concerned, all it accuses Nada of is arranging to hack Ghosn's corporate E-mail, which is frankly exactly the kind of thing you'll do if you want to quietly investigate a senior executive internally.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

So, for day 1. This is what I'm hearing. Kelly is the only one of 3 management level individuals that is on trial for supposedly falsifying documents. The other two were given plea deals. Also, the prosecutors have yet to say what exactly constitutes a crime about what was done. Lastly, these types of things are rarely prosecuted in Japan.

Sounds like a colossal waste of time and resources.

13 ( +15 / -2 )

@shimazaki

all it accuses Nada of is arranging to hack Ghosn's corporate E-mail, 

There's much more than that.

Coercion of people, deals to not be prosecuted, conflicts of interests, illegal register of private home, etc.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

See NISSAN knew about this. Somehow, I cannot accept that saikawa got away with this. Very happy that the world is watching this case.

10 ( +11 / -1 )

a deal was made with Ohnuma and Nada.

No doubt... probably a sweet one indeed

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Well, I hope this is an opportunity for the Japanese Hostage Judiciary to change. I was once held for 8 hours in a police station by a detective when I was a teenager for being innocent

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Yeah, we can nitpick the law to find Ghosn and Kelly guilty. We can convict virtually anybody if we do this. The question is intention, which obviously Yamamoto and his dogs doesn't care about. They want their 99.99%. That's all that matter to Japanese prosecutors, not justice.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Though the exact value and payment procedure is not finalized, it nevertheless constitutes a known obligation, a known company expense.

Makes zero sense.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

zzzzzzz

Noozefest of big business, revenge, and xenophobia.

If nothing else, these guys shoulda known (with hindsight) that they were pissing Japan Inc off with this money merger.

When all is said and done, I do believe that the books and documentaries and investigations will show the witch hunt.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Though the exact value and payment procedure is not finalized, it nevertheless constitutes a known obligation, a known company expense.

Agree, you don't report a payment until its done.

The main reason is that the payment has no Finalized Date so it cannot go to the accounting books.

Prosecutors have not explained how trying to avoid disclosure of unpaid compensation constitutes a crime.

The crime that they are trying to pull out Makes zero sense.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

No it isn't. The results of a formal questioning (which may or may not include a confession) can be submitted by the Prosecution in the Court Process as an exhibit to support their case. But the questioning itself is not part of the Court Process. The Japanese legal system has flaws, but misunderstanding it doesn't help.

You seem to be drawing a distinction without meaning. Its correct that the questioning in police custody is not part of the court process in the sense that it does not occur in court, but it is governed by the rules of criminal procedure which requires prosecutors to get permission of the court to detain the suspect for that questioning within 48 hours.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Makes you wonder how Japan could possibly convince anyone to come here and work in a Senior Management position within any locally based Company, let alone stay beyond a couple of years.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Prosecutors have not explained how trying to avoid disclosure of unpaid compensation constitutes a crime

Sums up the pathetic Japanese legal system in one sentence!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Ghosn, blames Macron and the French government. Ghosn is under investigation for similar chicanery in France, as expected, claims his innocence.

French officials assert that Ghosn was engineering a merger that neither Renault or Nissan wanted, with Ghosn making himself indispensable to operations by preventing communication between the two companies.

France, has asserted that Ghosn needs to be held accountable for any malfeasance in Japan. In France, Ghosn was 'offshoring' payments to himself thru an intermediary in the Mideast.

At best, Ghosn is a sociopath, more so a psychopath. Rock star indeed, the man is the epitome of corruption and malfeasance.

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

BAD Japanese always said. This is Japan, U should do as Japanese do in Japan. In this nissan case, I believe that Carlos and Kelly had no choice but follow , this Japanese advice.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Let the backstabbing continue!

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Either the foreigners & their Japanese colleagues are guilty, or the foreigners and Japanese colleagues are NOT guilty. It cannot be both ways.

Exactly. That’s why Japan’s system is a bogus system.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Prosecutors have not explained how trying to avoid disclosure of unpaid compensation constitutes a crime.

Exactly. This trial is an enormous waste of money. However, it encompasses everything the Japanese legal system represents and it cannot suffer a defeat. Its all or nothing.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Mr. Ghosn acted like Yakuza in siphoning money from Japanese corporate world. He should be extradited to face prosecution.

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

Ohnuma saving his own neck?

he worked with another former Nissan executive, American Greg Kelly to find ways to pay the automaker's former chairman, Carlos Ghosn without fully disclosing his compensation.

Then he should go down with Kelly. But since he's Japanese......

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Another excellent article on this disgraceful situation is this one:

https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-ghosn-nada-nissan/

This case will be a giant stain on an already disgraced Japanese justice system by the time it's all over.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Those in charge here look with repugnance upon the concept of the presumption of innocence and justice systems which entertain notions of reasonable doubt. Papal infallibility has nothing on these guys (and it mostly is guys).

1 ( +1 / -0 )

French officials assert that Ghosn was engineering a merger that neither Renault or Nissan wanted, with Ghosn making himself indispensable to operations by preventing communication between the two companies.

You speak as if Renault and Nissan are people who have "wants". Ghosn was the president of the alliance and therefore what he wants is what Renault and Nissan want. Except the losers in Nissan (Nada, Saikawa and another guy, I don't remember his name) will be made useless after the merger hence the backstabbing.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The maximum penalty for Kelly, if convicted, given the multiple counts of the same charge he faces, is up to 15 years in prison or 80 million yen in fines, or both.

Kelly is not the wisest human on planet Earth. Hope he enjoys his few meters of concrete.

The conviction rate in Japan is higher than 99%.

Actually, it's 95% in Japan. 99% in China. Both because of forced confessions. Proud of yourself, Japan?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Hiroshi Yamamoto declined comment on that, saying such deals don’t have to be made public.

OH yes it does! why the Cloak and dagger stuff, have you something to hide?

Some members of Japan’s business community have expressed alarm over the trial.

yep so has most of the world, we can see what sham trial it is, is this damaging Japans credibility and financial markets?, I would say so.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Japanese « management by consensus » is well known. This also applies in areas outside business such as in politics and the judiciary. What is less known to Westerners is the preparation process in achieving a consensus called « nemawashi ». Nemawashi can take place in murky and secretive environment often tainted in emotions. Consensus once achieved becomes binding upon all consenting parties. Those committed become inextricably deadlocked in a pact. I can imagine situations in which such pacts can transcend laws, regulations and even realities.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Prosecutors have not explained how trying to avoid disclosure of unpaid compensation constitutes a crime. Prosecution for falsifying financial reports is rare in Japan.

So, there it is! This is proof both Kelly and Ghosn are victims of a corporate coup and were railroaded into prison. They were arrested and incarcerated indefinitely for crimes that were made up to get them out of Nissan.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Very discreet of the article and commentors here not to mention that Ghosn paid a $1,000,000 fine in the US and Kelly a $100,000 fine (without admitting guilt) over essentially the same issues the Japanese government is raising now. (Nissan paid $15,000,000.)

https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2019/lr24606.htm

Of course, we all know that the US is a client state of Japan and American officials will do whatever the Japanese government asks them to do.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Do the hustle

So, there it is! This is proof both Kelly and Ghosn are victims of a corporate coup and were railroaded into prison. They were arrested and incarcerated indefinitely for crimes that were made up to get them out of Nissan.

Exactly.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Henny Penny

we all know that the US is a client state of Japan

LOL

not kidding

LOL

I don't even particularly like the US, but..

LOL

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@Henny Penny

I hear you, but my contention is they all worked for and are subordinates of Ghosn, ie they were all acting under direction of Ghosn and are for all intent and purposes, innocent. Kelly's only mistake is that he didn't cooperate like Nada et al from the beginning and so didn't get a deal with prosecutors.

I hope the court finds in Kelly's favour.

BTW, this report is misleading, under reporting is a crime anywhere, particularly for a public company.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

To sum up everything that people have said or that people are in denial of: Japan's justice system is neither. A note to the dense: it's random injustice.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

He referred to Ghosn as “Ghosn-san,” adding the Japanese honorific.

Everyone uses that "honorific" in Japan. It just means Mr or Mrs/Ms.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

BTW, this report is misleading, under reporting is a crime anywhere, particularly for a public company.

Yes.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

under reporting is a crime anywhere,

Yes, that is what I thought as well before starting my own business in Japan but I found the tax rules etc on what passes for corporate expenses or compensation in Japan are not clear or strict as I was used to.

Full time workers in Japan receive a refund for commuter transportation passes paid by the company, but this is considered a company expense and not compensation. Many executives who work in factories away from their families receive weekly flights at company expense to return home on the weekends. If you fly on a Sunday night domestically in Japan or take the high speed Shinkansen there are a lot of these types of single male travellers.

I haven't heard of people claiming this company expense as compensation. Compensation rules are definitely very different in Japan.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

So what this Nissan employee says in my books is standard procedure in Japanese corporations.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

The prosecutors for the case have told the court that a deal was made with Ohnuma and Nada.

In a recent briefing to reporters, Chief Deputy Prosecutor Hiroshi Yamamoto declined comment on that, saying such deals don’t have to be made public.

Excuse me, no if everything else is on the line this too should be made public. Who does the prosecutor think he works for and pays his salary? Is it not the public? If he is a representative and receives compensation as a prosecutor i.e. gov official then yes it is public right to know.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"The maximum penalty for Kelly, if convicted, given the multiple counts of the same charge he faces, is up to 15 years in prison or 80 million yen in fines, or both."

"The conviction rate in Japan is higher than 99%."

No wonder he looks frail, scared, worried, possibly suicidal ,and looks now much older than 64, he probably would not make it in a Japanese prison for 15 yrs.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

If you were ever curious to see a show trial, now you have. The Japanese “justice” system is a complete farce.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

rainydaySep. 29  09:32 pm JST

No it isn't. The results of a formal questioning (which may or may not include a confession) can be submitted by the Prosecution in the Court Process as an exhibit to support their case. But the questioning itself is not part of the Court Process. The Japanese legal system has flaws, but misunderstanding it doesn't help.

You seem to be drawing a distinction without meaning. Its correct that the questioning in police custody is not part of the court process in the sense that it does not occur in court, but it is governed by the rules of criminal procedure which requires prosecutors to get permission of the court to detain the suspect for that questioning within 48 hours.

You are extending the definition of "Court Process" to encompass "Judicial Process". Please follow the thread to the origin to see that the term "Court Process" was used to describe the actual procedure in a Court, where one side presents their arguments and the other side has the right to present theirs.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The trial is expected to last about a year.

Wow! So how long would've Ghosn's trial been?? 2 or 3 years?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"He has been charged with under-reporting Ghosn’s compensation by 9.3 billion yen over several years."

"Toshiaki Ohnuma, a star witness he said he handled executive compensation matters, including working with Kelly on finding ways to pay Ghosn without disclosing it."

A star Japanese witness word against a heavily criminally accused Hakujin IN Japan,

he's toast they are going to fry him, Japanese style; completely biased. The lynch mob is on him like white on rice. They probably already selected what prison he will go to, where the special forces will never be able to help him.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Free Kelly!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

You are extending the definition of "Court Process" to encompass "Judicial Process". Please follow the thread to the origin to see that the term "Court Process" was used to describe the actual procedure in a Court, where one side presents their arguments and the other side has the right to present theirs.

I'm not extending anything, Japanese law doesn't draw any distinction between those two terms and it doesn't really matter what people in comments on a news site describe them as. The entire process from detention to trial to sentencing is governed by the same laws - the Code of Criminal Procedure and the Rules of Criminal Procedure. You yourself were chastising someone in the comment I responded to for misunderstanding Japanese law, so I was pointing out that you don't seem to understand it well either.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

bokudaSep. 29 07:15 pm JST

Coercion of people, deals to not be prosecuted, conflicts of interests, illegal register of private home, etc.

I read the accusations. I said clearly "As far as what he did to Ghosn is concerned" since we are discussing Ghosn's case. Nada does sound like a crap, but the article doesn't even accuse him of doing anything that would undermine the validity of Ghosn's case (for example, it doesn't accuse him of altering records).

bokudaSep. 29 09:01 pm JST

Agree, you don't report a payment until its done. The main reason is that the payment has no Finalized Date so it cannot go to the accounting books.

The point of those financial reports are so that investors and other interested people are fairly informed of the financial state of the company, which includes its incomes, EXPECTED incomes, expenditures and EXPECTED expenditures.

If a company forecasts good news - for example, it THINKS it'll earn 100 billion on its new product next year, you can expect them to not only "report" but advertise this. Of course, the exact amount it'll make, and exactly when it'll make it, are unknown and unlisted. But they WILL talk about it, and there's nothing wrong with this as long as it is done in good faith (the numbers are not negligent throw-outs or worse, intentional lies). Investors can take this expected income, make their estimate of the probability of it coming to pass, and make decisions accordingly.

Well, what about liabilities and expected payouts that while without a Finalized Date or Amount, are basically known (and to a much higher confidence than what it might earn from its new product next year). What does concealing them do to the investors' rights to be fairly informed about the company's financial state?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

What does concealing them do to the investors' rights to be fairly informed about the company's financial state?

I agree, but not doing it doesn't constitute a crime.

What's really upsetting, much more than this custom-made crime, is that the justice system is rooted beyond repair.

Quick reminder of the four pillars of justice: 1) being fair in processes, 2) being transparent in actions, 3) providing opportunity for voice, and 4) being impartial in decision making.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"American Greg Kelly to find ways to pay the automaker's former chairman, Carlos Ghosn without fully disclosing his compensation."

was trying to hide money? Messing with the nationalistic economic backbone of Japan? American Greg Kelly appears to be in unprecedented big trouble in a totally nationalistic biased draconian justice system, according to:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnlippert/2020/01/03/prior-to-carlos-ghosns-daring-escape-his-wife-talked-of-japans-fake-democracy/#33ff7c1f1e65

2 ( +2 / -0 )

@rainyday

The Court Process, as defined by the original post, begins once the Court is in session (with respect to the case). Don't confuse the Judicial Process with the Court Process. That the jurisdiction to carry out searches, questionings, etc as well as Court functions are based on the same Criminal Code does not make everything part of the Court Process. You are stretching to force an argument. Have a nice life.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The Court Process, as defined by the original post, begins once the Court is in session (with respect to the case). Don't confuse the Judicial Process with the Court Process. That the jurisdiction to carry out searches, questionings, etc as well as Court functions are based on the same Criminal Code does not make everything part of the Court Process. You are stretching to force an argument. Have a nice life.

I'm not stretching to force an argument, I'm a graduate of a Japanese law school and have been working in the legal field in Japan for almost a decade now so I know what I am talking about. I am just explaining the law to you because you seemed so incensed that someone else misunderstood it and I found it ironic that you yourself were also operating under certain misunderstandings.

I understand the conceptual distinction you are trying to make between two "processes" but I'm telling you that is just an artificial creation on your part (your temrinology also makes no sense, "court" and "judiciary" are often used interchangably by lawyers), its not something the actual legal system itself recognizes. Take that for what it is worth (maybe nothing, which is fine by me).

Also:

Criminal Code = defines what constitutes a crime.

Code of Civil Procedure and Rules of Civil Procedure = sets the rules of procedure in a criminal case.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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