No charges over Ghana deportee's death in Japan

No charges is yet another crime, the first being the killing of Suraj!

was there really an investigation???????

Absolutely not a surpirise in a country where the majority of people believe "human rights" only apply to Japanese. The murder of a foreigner is probably looked on as not involving a human being's life, just a foreigner!

I seem to recall that there have been cases where detainees have been forcibly deported while their cases were still under appeal. Can anybody provide a link or other documentation of this?

If he has a Japanese wife in Japan why was he staying in Japan illegally? did he not have a spouse visa? This has happened before to someone else as well wrapped in a blanket!? why are foreigners often treated like animals here!?

Shouldn't of been in Japan in the first place.

If he has a Japanese wife in Japan why was he staying in Japan illegally? did he not have a spouse visa?

From what I gathered, he was already in Japan illegally when they got married (marriage doesn't check immigration status). He couldn't change to a spouse status because he was already illegal in Japan.

Typical police doing as little as possible to investigate crimes against aliens. Shame the Ghanaian embassy is so feckless they can't put any pressure on Japan to have a proper investigation. RIP killed illegal alien.

KariHaruka

Shouldn't of been in Japan in the first place.

so he deserved to die with no justice brought to those who killed him. Glad I don't live in your world.

Shouldn't of been in Japan in the first place.

I think before you make that kind of statement, you should know the whole story before just pointing your finger and saying something like that. Illegal or not, the most important thing is, a human being died while in Immigration custody. There was no reason or justification for this. It's easy for people like you to make such comments, but if it were your own family or close friends, you would probably be beside yourself with anger and would want answers too. Remember that.

Interesting timing of this report. Most of us should be switching over to the new Resident Card. Funny how they post that no charges will be pressed against Immigration killing a man in their custody.

We are supposed to read between the lines aren't we?

Some interesting points about Suraj's case and others.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Japan/NB04Dh01.html

Shouldn't of been in Japan in the first place.

I seriously hope you are not saying that just because he was a black man, or that he had the audacity to marry a Japanese.

Narita immigration officials are the people in Japan you don't wanna mess with folks. I've heard a few horror stories of people being detained without access to food, lawyers or any basic human rights. I've been told there is a massive detention centre at Narita with scores of detainees that are kept in at any time.

Dont condone the killing of him, but was it a killing or did he die.

I mean they were restraing an extremely violent struggling person who did not want to be deported, he was under alot of stress and could have had a heart attack as a result. I doubt the immigration guys went out of their way with the intetention of killing his guy.

Also if he was here legally he would not have been in custody in the first place, secondly if he did not violently resist and struggle he may still be alive today with an appeal of his deportation be processed through the proper channels.

Responsibility ultimately rests with the detainee here.

I mean they were restraing an extremely violent struggling person who did not want to be deported, he was under alot of stress and could have had a heart attack as a result

I think this is why they kept his heart for analysis. It's severly unfortunate that he lost his life but, just as Export said, if he had followed the rules to begin with, he may yet be alive and still with his Wife. RIP

For Japan foreigners are Aliens not humans. Officially they treat them like that. When I came to japan, I was surprised to hear that resident card to be named as "Alien Registration Certificate". It shows their mentality.

I mean they were restraing an extremely violent struggling person who did not want to be deported, he was under alot of stress and could have had a heart attack as a result. I doubt the immigration guys went out of their way with the intetention of killing his guy.

Even if that were the case, do they have to gag the guy? I understand you have an individual that is non-compliant, however, there are other methods, more humane to deal with hostile individuals. There needs to be a bit, even a tad bit of compassion. The man is already under extreme stress and when you have 10 immigration officers trying to bond and gag you, I think the man had every reason to panic, his adrenaline must have been through the roof, which could have been a contributing factor to him suffering a heart attack. Anyone living here probably knows the immigration staff at times can be quite obnoxious, not all, but a lot of them.

i can't imagine the police suddenly deciding to pick on this gaijin to restrain more forcefully out of the blue. lots of people are deported from Japan every year but none of them die as a result. the deportee must share in some of the blame for this tragic incident. but once again many in the foreign community will just blame it all on the j-police/gov't.

He died in the care of the state, illegal or not. He was married to a citizen and there are ways to restrain people that don't result in death. This is the scary thing about immigration officials, on a whim they can detain you, deny what would be considered basic rights and accidentally kill you with impunity. Funny how making a system transparent is not an option and rejected out of hand, that says a lot about the system. Just another gaijin.

mysteriousneo: For Japan foreigners are Aliens not humans. Officially they treat them like that. When I came to japan, I was surprised to hear that resident card to be named as "Alien Registration Certificate". It shows their mentality.

Before you start spouting racist nonsense, realise that in EVERY country, people of foreign origin are referred to as alien... Even America had an alien registration act passed by congress in the past! While this story is a disgrace, it does NOT automatically mean all of Japan is racist...

I was surprised to hear that resident card to be named as "Alien Registration Certificate". It shows their mentality.

mysteriousneo@If it's a registration certificate it can't very well be a "resident card" as well -- it's either one or the other. Also, if it "shows their mentality" as you put it, how do you explain its name in Japanese, which is 外国人登録証明書 (gaikokujin toroku shomeisho), which can hardly be accused of any sinister nuances since that means "certificate of registration of a foreign-country person"? And finally, I'm just curious, but what wording is used on the identification documents on non-citizens in your own country?

If the guy complied withe the deportation order and left with out the fight and the struggle he may not have had to have been gagged, perhaps he was screaming or even trying to bite the people trying to deport him who knows, have you ever tried to restrain a violent struggling hysterical person ? They can be extremely difficult to keep subdued, short of drugging this guy what else could they do.

People need to get away form the idea he was killed simply because he was a gaijin.

He died because he refused to cooperate calmly like a rational human being and then pursuing the avenues available to him to restore his desired status.

People die in police custody in countries all over the wolrd everyday not, not because they are black or white a national or a gaijin get real guys.

If there are no criminal charges, the wife can at least file a civil suit against the government for compensation.

Disgusting but completely unsurprising. It doesn't matter that he was illegal, murdering deportees is still wrong!

Glad I don't live in your world.

If you live in Japan, then you do live in "his" world.

Thing is whether one agrees with it or not, it's the law and the guy should NOT have been in Japan at all. he fac that it took 10 people to restrain him are good signs of a resistance from the culprit.

@ ExportExpert

Put your Apologist mentallity aside. With out thinking about anyones race just 1 prisoner and 10 guards, When A cabin crew has to tell officers this guys needs medical attention you need to take him off the plane thats Professial neglect I don't care what you think..... 10 officers and they can't even monitor the guys health... by they way they gagged him after he was already in the plane seat ( this is illegal) All Deportations are supposed to be Video taped (they shut off the camera Why?) bottom line at 2:20 pm he stepped out of the van under his own power at the airport Suraj was motionless by 2:35 p.m., at 3:31 he was dead at the airport no ambulence was called he didn't even make it to the hospital we was pronounce dead at the airport. No resuscitation attempt was made until he was carried out of the aircraft and into the vehicle they came in. Professinal Neglect........ Stop trying to make "I think" or "Maybe he was" statements. You are telling people to get real he wasn't killed b/c he was an illegal, and from my point of view by not looking at the case and just saying "maybe he did this" its seems you are just being an apologist and only defending the guards b/c they are Japanese.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/fl20111101zg.html

An autopsy report seen in a court document notes abrasions to his face, internal bleeding of muscles on the neck, back, abdomen and upper arm, along with leakage of blood around the eyes, blood congestion in some organs, and dark red blood in the heart. Yet the report bizarrely concluded that the cause of death is "unknown."

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/fl20111101zg.html

Tyler you get real , i'm not apologising merely saying if he wasnt an out of control , violent, thrasing, struggling wild man he maybe alive today. stop taking repsonsibilty off this out of control violent person.

IF HE CONFORMED NON VIOLENTLY HE MAY NOT HAVE BEEN RESTRAINED.

He fought struggled thrashed and maybe caused and over reaction by those who were handling him BUT he caused it.

The fact he was illegal, he was violent, he was not rational, he was unreasonable shows they were correct in getting this guy out of the country, I and others here dont want to live with this type of irrational violent illegal people in our midst.

Word to other unreasonable types dont fight or struggle on you way out.

Go calmly and then pursue the proper avenues open to you.

Dont blame others when your actions lead to problems.

I already saw videos of people being deported and I can say that some of them do REALLY resist! They can be really violent and in some countries they had to carry them by hands and feet, they also shout very loudly, ask other passengers for help....

It is also important to remember that the pilot in command is the one who make the rules on board and he has the authority to refuse anyone on board if he feels there is a threat on his flight. Some deportee know that rule so they try to disrupt the boarding and then hope the pilot in command would refuse them and the immigration officers on the flight.

I really wonder why some here suggest this guy should have been allowed to stay, one would ask: why him? why not all the others? all those who are lining in front of embassies abroad, those who want to come but have no visa, those who are here but without visa. What is the limit? 10 millions foreigners? 50 millions? 100 millions? what about more foreigners than natives? What makes this guy special? I think some here are hoping Japan would be plagued like Europe/US and share their bitterness.

They killed him through over exuberance restraining him, he was treated in an abhorrent manner, there is no justifying killing him. Remember he was alone. Confined and threatened metaly, no legal council no chance to state his case. This would be a huge story in a civilized country where accountability is paramount, killing anyone under state care is disgusting. He had not killed anyone, just a visa problem.

It is unfortunate it resulted in his death but he caused it, had he behaved calmly then.........................no headline or story to read.

So thumbs down from the PC brigade seems to indicate you agree that if some one becomes violent and screams and demands things be given to them and done their way. You lot are out of it if you think we give in to violent types so they can get their own way. The guy died by accident during a violent struggle initiated by himself for christ sake.

"Prosecutors in GHANA will not press charges over the case of a JAPANESE man who died as he was being restrained by up to 10 immigration officials as they tried to deport him,

Wonder what the reaction in Japan would have been if it read like this.

Fight scream struggle and yell and you will be allowed to stay, or let out of jail or get the toy you so badly want ???

You lot are what is wrong with the world.

Immigration officials in Japan are known to be absolutely terrible... But this is just bad.

I seriously hope you are not saying that just because he was a black man, or that he had the audacity to marry a Japanese.

And where in the article does it say that he was a black man? It shouldn't matter if he was black, white, brown, purple, green, WHATEVER. He was a human being and should never have been treated that way.

My condolences to his wife and family.

@ExportExpert or what you call yourself.I am a Ghanaian ,a former illegal imigrant,worked my way through a PhD in Japan.I know the guy personally and he is not that violent.But,everyone has the tendency to resist arrest especially in his case where hiswife had filled for a retrial of the deportation order.

Your argument that someone is illegal ,black means he is violent and irrational is not correct.You were not there in the first place,how could you be saying a violent struggle.

The fact is that,Japanese Police are very rough when arresting someone who tries to resist.I have witnessed them do it several Japanese and you would not like the sight of it.

Well,because you are here legally ,illegals are whatever you call them but i must say the words you are using on this gentleman is the same a Japanese sees you,as a foreigner ,a thief a nobody just trying to make a living in their country.

@ExportExpert... Did you read the part where his spouse for 20 years wasn't even informed of his deportation? I bet you don't want to live with a violent man but you will want to be treated with decency. Oh... was there any report of this poor man breaking any domestic law in his two decades' staying here? No. Do the math. I think you are the one being irrational.

@tokyobakayaro The guy was married to a Japanese national but was not issued a Spouse Visa.He was petitioning even in detention.They have the right to refuse his application but does the immigration have a hand in his death? That is the question?

If he was married to a Japanese didn't he have the right to stay?

Of course no charges against j-cops vs a poor African immigrant.

And where in the article does it say that he was a black man?

Ghanaian of another colour would be a big surprise.

@wakarimasen. I know the guy personally,he is black just like me.Of course,there are Ghanaians of Indian,Lebanese and European origins.

edysmal

was there any report of this poor man breaking any domestic law in his two decades' staying here?

MOST Definitley YES YES YES he broke the immigration law, NO visa is a law breaker !!!

kwabena

If he did not struggle resist fight they would not have restrained him tapped his mouth or beat him, you dont get beaten for complying for christ sake wake up.

"you dont get beaten for complying for christ sake wake up"

But don't have to be beaten simply for RESISTING.

@ ExportExpert

There is no law in Japan that says that if a person resists arrest ,he/she should be restrained in a way that causes death.Am not against his deportation order but some of us want to know did the immigration officials in a way caused his death.

i bet there are a lot of illegal immigrants including Phillipinos,Russians,Chinese etc This is a cause for a fair treatment for all illegal migrants.I have personally met several Americans and Europeans asking me how they can get a Japanese woman to marry and stay here.

Every one has his own reasons of wanting to stay here, but marrying someone just to stay here is implicitly the same as breaking a law.So,I can say there are a lot of people (legal residents)who have abused the law and they are no different from this man.

Your argument is placing the blame only on the Gentleman.I agree he may have resisted but what if the officials used excessive force?OR you dont care about that.

i can't imagine the police suddenly deciding to pick on this gaijin to restrain more forcefully out of the blue. lots of people are deported from Japan every year but none of them die as a result. the deportee must share in some of the blame for this tragic incident. but once again many in the foreign community will just blame it all on the j-police/gov't.

You can't imagine, well then you are living in the land of Oz. It happens all the time. Usually, the cops or immigrations people are ok, as long as they don't get the alarm that someone has broken the law, once that happens, they act ALWAYS according to protocol. This is the problem. I believe in the rule of law, but there comes a point where you have to use basic, human judgement in assessing the situation and no manuel can help you with that. Again, as an American, being from California, we see a lot of illegals coming in. However, if I hear an illegal immigrant was treated in this way while in custody, I'd be just as outraged. We are talking about people, you just don't do that. Too often, the Japanese officials just get over excited and highly xenophobic and that fear takes over their judgement often and that is just unacceptable. Make no mistake, I am for upholding the law, but the way this was handled was way over the top.

Immigration should be nicer than the police. They are there to process you, NOT to kill you. I can't imagine being deported ever being a pleasant process but still the victim is still in their care and custody. If you take custody of anything you also assume the responsibility for it's care.

This is all wrong.

Either you are Japanese or you are one of those smug expats who thinks they are above everyone else. How many people do you have to step on to get to the top?

@Kawabena

Sadly, that is how many Japanese sees us, as foreigners or guests with no rights or very little. I have asked many times in my adult classes that foreigners should have the same legal rights that protect the Japanese, many of my students think, it is just a figment of my imagination and Japan does NOT discriminate against foreigners are spoiled in Japan or we are treated to nicely. Other students felt that the government should view each individual on a case by case basis to determine whether they have the right to have the laws of the land protect them and a few more thought that they should get full rights provided they become citizens.

But there is another element and I hate to say this as sad and vile and ignorant as it is, but many Japanese DO tend to think differently about country, culture and race. I think this is more about where you come from as to who you are often. Many Japanese will treat someone that might be American, British or an Australian different than a person from Ghana or Kenya or Rwanda. I think it is stupid, but I have a friend, he's from Uganda and he went to college in Canada got his Masters in Journalism, came to Japan, married a Japanese, had kids and opened up and English School. Nicest guy in the world, but he wasn't getting a lot of students, so he basically changed the school and labeled it as a "Canadian English School" in other words, he had to lie a bit about where he was from, otherwise he couldn't get any students. Japanese often have this image that Africa is just a 3rd world nation and the people are just poor, desperate and a continent without any prestige. So when an African comes teaching English ins Japan, it can be difficult at times.

Let's stop the guessing game. I personally knew 4/5 guys who were detained and deported from Japan. None of them had any harsh treatment. Why? Because they were humble and cooperative!! If you are detained, in any country, for any crime, and do not show any remorse, instead become violent, you will get harsh treatment! As for Abu, why did it take 10 people if he was not violent!! If he was in US or other western countries where enforcers carry weapon, he probably would have been shot down dead, and no one would ask any question! He didn't need to be gagged, if he wasn't shouting! Yes, he should not end up dead while in immigration custody, but if he was violent and force was needed to be applied to subdue him, I would say it was unfortunate that he ended up dead. I am sure immigration officers don't have hobbies of killing foreigners.

I wish his wife went to lawyers before he was captured, during their 20 years of married life and filed to make him a legal resident, so this wouldn't have happened.

@bass4funk

Japanese often have this image that Africa is just a 3rd world nation and the people are just poor, desperate and a continent without any prestige.

Hit the point again. It isn't only Japanese but the vast majority share this view just that it is too obvious here and that is what has been portrayed of the continent and its people

exportexpert-

and others cleaving to legality-

Did you read the j times link Tyler provided? The guy in charge ordered that the required vid camera be turned off. Ayashii!! Another applied metal ankle cuffs, apparently illegal. However yet another applied 10 plastic restraints that were bought by the officer out of his own money , nothing to do with regulation. Another pulled the towel gag back SO HARD THAT HIS TEETH BIT THRU it. Sure he could've been biting it, but it is very difficult and painful to bite thru towel on purpose. Furthermore, as anyone who has done wrestling, jujutsu, martial arts, will know, a fairly light amount of pressure to your head or neck from behind, causes you to lose complete control. You really cannot resist. Try it if you haven't experienced it. No matter how strong or good you are, or even how small your opponent (unless a child) you will lose once the opponent is behind you and has a grip on your head/ nek. Add to this the guy is already super restrained and there are 10 opponents not one.

I really can't see anything here except sadistic pleasure-filled abuse of someone who has no control, no rights no-one protecting him. They brought their own restraints for crissakes. They may not have intended to kill, but it is easy to imagine gang mentality and power-high taking over.

Pretty much one set of cuffs behind the back is enough to subdue anyone. If they try to run, and you and your 10 buddies really can't hold him back, then there are any number of extremely painful but SAFE nerve-holds that you can use to prevent someone from moving one muscle. They will get on the plane no matter what. If you really need to stop them from talking/ shouting and you don't want to use a nerve hold, there have to be a million non-choke inducing quieting/ muffling methods.

At best these guys are stupid and have no idea about how to do the basics of their jobs. At worst and what I fear to be true is they are sadistic predators who found a job where they can make their fantasies come alive with no consequences.

The shouting and struggling defense/ excuse offered by so many on this thread is really sad.

There really are lots of holds that are safe for controlling someone. No excuses here, none.

@bass4funk.

I understand your views.Africa has messed up as a result of their own dings and they deserve to be treated that way.But as a self made man,people dont dictate nor force their opinions on me.Its their view and they can say it.I have equally seen Japanese who explicitly say they hate white people and again its their view.There was a once a white guy who once even wrote on this board of extreme harassment from his neighbors to the point he stays indoors.I have a Japanese wife and the extended family treat me with enough respect as I do to them

I have seen people from all walks of life flooding Ghana after the discovery of oil and I would want everyone to be treated with respect and within the whims of the law.

The law on spouse visa does not say you automatically receive a spouse visa upon getting married.They view it on a case by case basis.

I think that,if there was a role the immigration people played in his death,the people should be brought to book.

Anyone one else notice on some threads some posts cannot be voted down or up depending on the setting by the mods?

**If he has a Japanese wife in Japan why was he staying in Japan illegally? did he not have a spouse visa?

From what I gathered, he was already in Japan illegally when they got married (marriage doesn't check immigration status). He couldn't change to a spouse status because he was already illegal in Japan.**

He overstayed his visa and thought that by marrying a local, he's be allowed to get a spouse visa. Thing is, a spouse visa is an automatic thing and immigration KNEW exactly what this guy was doing.

Was he "killed"? I have no idea but I don't understand why people are thumbing down others for making sense. a) he was illegal and legally, was being deported. b) he fought. I mean really, did he think if he kicked up a bit enough of a fuss they'd just give him a visa and let him stay? Reality check please. That only gets your ass beaten - here and in most countries.

Did the guy deserve to die? Most definitely not but her also didn't deserve to be allowed to stay and work in Japan.

The guy was married to a Japanese national but was not issued a Spouse Visa.He was petitioning even in detention.They have the right to refuse his application but does the immigration have a hand in his death? That is the question?

Indeed that IS the question but most on here have already behaved as judge and jury. Including yourself.

I know the guy personally,he is black just like me.Of course,there are Ghanaians of Indian,Lebanese and European origins.

What does your race have to do with anything? What does HIS race have to do with anything? Illegal is illegal is illegal. You think whites and asians don't get deported? If anything, isn't this guy's behaviour more of an issue with you? We get tarred and feathered here based on race and he's basically a fine example of the stereotype that all black folks in Japan are breaking laws. In his case, he was. Not helping you and other legal blacks here at all in the eyes of immigration. Just like all the white illegals aren't helping whites, asian illegals aren't helping asians. Personally, the faster they get rid of illegals, the happier I will be. I am sick and tired of being treated like a criminal by immigration because so many out there ruin it for the rest of us.

Why isn't the wife being charged with anything? Perhaps if Japanese "spouses" and employers were charged, there would be less of an issue? Rather unfair that only the foreigners get punished with the locals get off scot free.

@ spud and bass....remember that he was also resisting wildly. He is also partly responsible for the outcome.

@danako

as isaid, there are ways to deal w that

this level of force is just not necessary

furthermore, his resistance may have been to the abuse. that level of abuse could certainly cause others to panic and thrash.

I believe the immigration officers were not trained to handle non-cooperative detainees. They should get training.

State paid employees who have to do this job should be trained in non lethal methods of restraint. Injury is a long way from death. And neither is acceptable. 10 to 1 should not result in death. Overstay? Illegal? At what point is killing him acceptable, he might have been frisky but 10 people (trained) could get compliance with out death.

@roughneck: How many Japanese Immigration officer does it take to kill a Ghanaian overstayer?

It used to take 10, after training, now 2 can do it.

Sorry, could not resist. :)

Yes, they should get training....also may be tasers.

Or perhaps detainees could learn not to fight? I mean really, dumbest thing ever to do while being detained...

exportsexpert-

Don't think it's the mods. Probably, your browser just sometimes doesn't show the vote being registered right away, maybe because busy or something. Press "refresh" or "reload" and your vote willshow. For suddenly seeming to take 2 or three votes- a page you looked at for a long time also had others looking at it at the same time, but again the page was not refreshed so didn't show their votes. When you voted it initiated refresh and showed your vote along with the others simultaneously.

exportsexpert-

Don't think it's the mods. Probably, your browser just sometimes doesn't show the vote being registered right away, maybe because busy or something. Press "refresh" or "reload" and your vote willshow. For suddenly seeming to take 2 or three votes- a page you looked at for a long time also had others looking at it at the same time, but again the page was not refreshed so didn't show their votes. When you voted it initiated refresh and showed your vote along with the others simultaneously.

@tmarie I never tried to bring race issues here,I tried to explain to people who were asking his race.And,let me say a bit on spouse visa.

I was an illegal immigrant, I married and I had to petition the Tokyo immigration after over 4 months and they issued my visa.

Marrying a Japanese is not a direct ticket to a Spouse Visa.I know people ,Africans and Asians, whose application was turned down.They add something like Special permit to the spouse visa in your passport.

Again,his behavior is of an issue just like that of the officials .He faced a deportation order and the wife was petitioning and the immigration has the right to refute it.However,if they used extreme force which resulted in his death .I strongly feel the truth should come out.

Your treatment at the immigration has nothing to do with his overstaying.It is a general Xenophobia about the activities of legal residents here.Most,illegals are arrested, in most cases ,on the crime of overstaying their visa.Illegal immigrants are always mindful and keep themselves out of trouble.

Please,dont put the blame on the illegals here.

"Koichi Kodama, an immigration lawyer assisting Mr Suraj’s widow, believes it is a reaction to the appointment last year as justice minister of Keiko Chiba, a pro-immigration reformer"

ref: W3economist.c0m

The topic is one Japanese society would rather avoid. The press barely reported it. Still, when the wife' name appeared online, she was fired from her job lest the incident sully her firm’s name.

ref: W3economist.c0m

I was an illegal immigrant, I married and I had to petition the Tokyo immigration after over 4 months and they issued my visa.

I have no idea why immigration would allow you to stay. Personally I think illegals should be shown the door regardless of marriage.

Indeed, the truth should come out. I'm not arguing that. I asking why people are so quick to defend the guy that was a) here illegally and b) fought when he was being detained.

My treatment by immigration has EVERYTHING to do with how other foreigners behave. Indeed, it IS xenophobia but do you think people like yourself, who were here illegally, and people like your friend, who thought he was smarter than the system makes immigration want to treat us well?

Illegal immigrants are not "always" mindful and keep themselves out of trouble. You think working illegal and not paying taxes is mindful? You think the hostess and gangsters are keeping out of trouble? If you stayed out of trouble (though being illegal means your certainly aren't being mindful) great but many, many others do not.

Don't put the blame on illegals? Who should one blame? If this guy had been legal, there would have been no issue at all. The blame goes to this guy for being here illegally. As I said, that shouldn't be a death sentence but we don't know the cause of death. For all we know, he did have a heart condition. Shame he didn't pay taxes and health care so he could get a physical every now and then to ensure he was healthy.

And who was asking about race??

tmarie is right on the mark.

@tmarie

you speciffically asked me why I was talking about race.

There are 1000's like me that have been allowed to stay but let me say something.

Eventhogh ,I was an immigrant,I went on,had my PhD and working comfortably whiles contributing my part to the Japanese economy.Whereas,there were people who came here as legals may not be on the same footing as me.So,you really think I should have been sent out?

I guess you are privileged to be from a Developed country but there are other Asians and people who deserve to be given the chance eventhough they are illegal but that is the decision of the Japanese authorities.

Those,gangsters and hostesses most have legal stay.If you are disputing ,go to Roppongi and ask all the Africans,Chinese,Russians .Put ,the blame on them.

Those ,immigrants are the ones who work in the garbage fields,the hot steaming factories that a legal wont work.They are paid low wages and dont forget they are employed by Japanese.

Recently,most illegals have been giving like some permission to stay and work whiles reporting to the immigration once every month.They decide not you

And I bet the Japanese problems with foreigners is not about the illegals not paying taxes.It is about the legal foreign residents not obeying the law.

@ExportExpert

My argument is not whether what he did is wrong or right., resisted or not.If they intentionally or unintentionally caused his death,they should be put on trial.

Restraining a gaijin in any manner is a major event in the career of a Japanese law enforcement officer. Without that experience to talk about they don't garner the kudos necessary for accelerated career advancement. It is a badge of courage.

tmarie-

your theories about justice and illegals lack any persuasive power. as mr kwabena mentions in passing,

certain whole sectors of the jpns economy rest on the shoulders and sweat of illegal, underpaid, uninsured workers doing jobs jpns won't (or can't) do because they are too difficult, or too dangerous, or the factory conditions are not themselves legal. Workers who have no recourse if abused, or injured/ sick on the job. Make no mistake, they are paying their dues, if not in formal taxes than in their pound of flesh and keeping this country, parts of it anyway, afloat and out of the red.

As for blaming him for resisting, and claiming maybe he had a heart condition, do read the above j times link. The in-house immigration Dr. in Chiba who gives health checks to ppl held in immigration, called what the immigration officers did "criminal". He further states the immigration officers visited him 4 times after the guys death to try and get the dr to testify to the guy having poor health, to cover for the officers violence. (Which the dr wouldn't do, because the guy had very good health). Anyway, at least read that report.

And who was asking about race??

Go back in some earlier replies, a comment was made implying that because he was black as part of the reason for immigration's actions. I responded why color made a difference and kwabena kindly informed everyone that he was in fact a black man but that not everyone from Ghana is black.

I knew that because I had met a wonderful young woman from Ghana who happened to be of Lebanese ancestry.

**you speciffically asked me why I was talking about race.

There are 1000's like me that have been allowed to stay but let me say something.

Eventhogh ,I was an immigrant,I went on,had my PhD and working comfortably whiles contributing my part to the Japanese economy.Whereas,there were people who came here as legals may not be on the same footing as me.So,you really think I should have been sent out?

I guess you are privileged to be from a Developed country but there are other Asians and people who deserve to be given the chance eventhough they are illegal but that is the decision of the Japanese authorities.

Those,gangsters and hostesses most have legal stay.If you are disputing ,go to Roppongi and ask all the Africans,Chinese,Russians .Put ,the blame on them.

Those ,immigrants are the ones who work in the garbage fields,the hot steaming factories that a legal wont work.They are paid low wages and dont forget they are employed by Japanese.

Recently,most illegals have been giving like some permission to stay and work whiles reporting to the immigration once every month.They decide not you**

Indeed I did ask you why you were talking about race. Where was anyone else talking about it? I see only you going on about being a black man as if that has anything to do with the issue at hand. It doesn't.

Legals on the 'same footing"? Do you think education trumps immigration papers? They don't which is why I wish people like you, regardless of your education, are shown the door. A PhD doesn't mean a damn thing to me with regards to immigration and this topic. Do you think Japan owes you a visa because of your PhD? A least those "below" you who are legal aren't breaking the law.

You know nothing about my background at all and are now playing "poor black victim" which is sickening. YOU were the one that broke the law. Your friend is the one that broke the law so why you are trying to attack me and others like me and our "privileged" background is beyond me. Keep feeling sorry for yourself and keep playing the victim. Perhaps others like yourself with throw you a pity party but I certainly won't. You aren't owed anything by anyone for your education. Plenty of people have PhD - nothing all that special.

So, now you want to blame Africans, Russians, Chinese... but I thought you said they were good and keep out of trouble? Which is it?

And I bet the Japanese problems with foreigners is not about the illegals not paying taxes.It is about the legal foreign residents not obeying the law.

This is classic. So it is the legals that are causing all the problems in this country, eh? The government wanting to tie visas in with pension payments and health care means that they don't view non tax payers as a problem, eh?

My argument is not whether what he did is wrong or right., resisted or not.If they intentionally or unintentionally caused his death,they should be put on trial.

Your argument is that because he was a poor, black man from a developing country he should be allowed to break the law because it suits him and others like him and yourself.

I also won't "forget" that they are employed by Japanese - which is why I asked why THEY aren't also being charged. This guy's wife needs to be charged with helping an illegal.

"I also won't "forget" that they are employed by Japanese - which is why I asked why THEY aren't also being charged. This guy's wife needs to be charged with helping an illegal."

Totally Agree with that!

"I also won't "forget" that they are employed by Japanese - which is why I asked why THEY aren't also being charged. This guy's wife needs to be charged with helping an illegal."

Totally agree with that!

To those who think the word 'alien' means some bug eyed monster rather than a human:

1 Owing political allegiance to another country or government; foreign: alien residents.

2 Belonging to, characteristic of, or constituting another and very different place, society, or person; strange.

3 Dissimilar, inconsistent, or opposed, as in nature: emotions alien to her temperament.

@tmarie stop fuming and because you think you are from a western country only you and your folks who can come legally, i most cases ,should be allowed to stay here.What about their neighboring Asian folks who most are poor?

However,I was saying I am an example of why some people should be given the chance.I said those Africans ,Russians and Chinese,Iranians in Roppongi are legal residents but are breaking the law.

Try to read posts carefully and dont rant anyhow. I said I got a PhD in Japan after getting my residence that is why I think some people should be given a chance.I am not a poor black man and don't apply those your racist sentiments in America or Europe to me.And ,I contribute more in taxes and output to Japan than you ,so my PhD is worth something and you dont have it.

Illlegal immigration is every where around the world,that is why immigration authorities make provisions for it.What did you come to do here?That is why the Japanese call you "the loosers in your country" except you are an expat.

Marrying a Japanese National intentionally to stay here is the same as breaking the law as an illegal immigrant.

Give me a break

he fac that it took 10 people to restrain him are good signs of a resistance from the culprit.

AiserX- No, that is a sign of the cowardice and herd-mentality of Japanese authorities. It is nothing more than piling on by a bunch of overzealous 12 year-olds on the big, bad and black foreigner.

This is very sad indeed, not too sure why this guy had to die like this. I do hope there is a real investigation and maybe that they SUIT the hell out of the J immigration!

@tmarie

I'll go with that, if anyone that seemingly is at fault, then a big part of it should go to the wife. As a national in this country, she should have done her homework, double checked and made sure that everything was on the up and up. Just like if I take my wife back to the states, I can't make sure she knows everything and all the laws and rules of the land. That's my job as her husband. However, as I stated earlier, some people make the argument, BUT he resisted, perhaps, but I will say this, very often in Japan the authorities can be shady, no cameras. How do we know the police did not taunt him, a lot of things could have hapoened to escalate this situation. Did the guy even have a lawyer? Was he there to witness his client being thrown on the plane? I'm just saying, this is not the first time in Japan someone died in custody. No cameras, No lawyers, 99.9% conviction rate. I'm just saying, there has to be a whole lot more to the story. Something quite just don't add up.

Sorry.

Still tripsing out that old lemon?

Been beaten to mince years ago, all the sticks broke and yet people still want to beat the remaining spot. Nothing left there to beat, you missed the wagon.

Classic.

First it was YOU who brought economic status, not I. I don't care what colour anyone us, their nationality... As long as they have the papers that allows them to be here legally. Suggesting I've said anything of the nature you accused me of it pathetic. You seem to have a chip on your shoulder about those of us here legally from developed nations for some reason. Perhaps you should question why you e used that as an argument when no one in here has saud a thing about it.

You have zero idea what I pay in taxes nor in terms of contribution to society. You also have udea idea about my education and quslifications so you're assuming a lot with your statement thst you have "more". To suggest otherwise is also pretty pathetic.

Many of those working in Roppongi are not here on correct visas or are illegal. The same could be said for those working in factories and the like. It doesn't matter their job. You made a statement that the biggest problem were those foreigners here legally. Back that up with something please because I certainly am not going to agree with you.

You've now also gone on to attack the majority of posters on here and have suggested we're "loosers" (I'll assume you mean losers) for living in Japan. Yet, you aren't? You can try and justify you having been here illegally all you want bug at the end of the day, as I said before, I'd like folks like you deported as you make it hard for those of us here illegally. You seem to be proud of it. I can assure there is nothing respectful in what you've done regarding immigration.

Lowly, indeed work conditions are very questionable. People hire illegals because they know they can u set pay them, over work them and abuse them. On of the reasons I am so against illegals is because of the treatment they face I these regards. If companies were fined for hiring illegals and give huge fines, they'd hire legals. This means better wages and better working conditions for everyone. Would they be much better than the current situation?

Damn I hate autocorrect! Those of us here legally. Nothing respectable about being an illegal.

@shinjuku

Whatever people might think of Rodney King and the riots ( I was there when that happened, that was the most scariest time being caught up in all that) it did bring light to the LAPD that until that time were very infamous for being rouge, slimy and corrupt. You just couldn't trust the cops, but after that, they totally cleaned the department, Daryl Gates stepped down and the police dept. went through a total facelift. It's gotten a whole lot better because of that infamous incident. The Japanese police don't walk the beat, people are reluctant to talk to the police, the police ar not seen as someone that you can go up to and chat with. I think they are not even trained on how to deal with human factor as in- compassion! Just uphold the law and disassociate yourself with any feelings, No grey line, just follow the law as it is written.

Bass, I 100% agree that the wife is also at fault here. Her and many like her should also be charged. Illegals here make a living somehow so aren't the only ones breaking laws - I would extend that to those who hire locals under the table as well - which is was Ichihashi was able to survive so long.

Indeed the cops and immigration here ARE shady. I won't argue that but it's hard to feel sorry for a guy who was also shady and trying to undermine immigration. From reports I read his marriage was also a sham marriage and him and his wife did it under the assumption he'd be given a spouse visa and allowed to stay.

I'm certainly not defending immigration in this but people are jumping to conclusions, making assumptions and defending a guy who clearly was in the wrong. I'd prefer folks like him be deported. Oh, right. That's what they were trying to do when he kicked off. No win situation for anyone when folks do that.

I also don't think bringing Rodney King is relevant and focuses on race and police. We're talking immigration and illegals.

I'd also say that while the cops in Rodney's case went too far, he was also hacked up on drugs and out of control. Lose/lose for everyone again when people kick off when being questioned or dealt with by authorities.

Could this deportees life had been saved if a doctor had been called to sedate him instead of the rough extreme handling? Surely there was a postmortem that would have defined his cause of death.If he had a known heart condition prior to the deportation, a doctor should have been present as stress alone could have resulted in a coronary attack

I seriously hope you are not saying that just because he was a black man, or that he had the audacity to marry a Japanese.

Don't even bother with trying to play the race card with me. I couldn't care if he was asian, black or white. Or even who he was married too. He was in Japan illegally and in my eyes he shouldn't of been in Japan period.

I seriously hope you are not saying that just because he was a black man, or that he had the audacity to marry a Japanese.

Don't even bother with trying to play the race card with me. I couldn't care if he was asian, black or white. Or even who he was married too. He was in Japan illegally and in my eyes he shouldn't of been in Japan period.

@tmarie

You seem to be ranting all along about the legality of the guy being deported. In the same sense, were the people deporting him and their procedures entirely legal? Sadly that is not known as of now, to any of us. Which is why their legality during the whole operation and his death has to be thoroughly investigated and consequently dealt with. I support the wife in finding out what happened.

Indeed the cops and immigration here ARE shady. I won't argue that but it's hard to feel sorry for a guy who was also shady and trying to undermine immigration. From reports I read his marriage was also a sham marriage and him and his wife did it under the assumption he'd be given a spouse visa and allowed to stay.

I feel sorry for the life that was taken, I don't know the man, but I do feel bad for a person that died in a situation that didn't need to happen. The man didn't kill anyone or did anything to endanger the public, he broke the law yes, but you say it's hard for you to feel sorry for a person that seemed shady. How about also focusing on the actions of the immigration officials and how they man handle unruly individuals. Gagging?? Is that really necessary? Also, the reason why I brought up King was that it is a bit relevant to what we are talking about. Officials that hold up the rule of law acting like common vigilantes. LAPD was out of control and in Japan, many police and immigration officials are out of control. As I said before, something smells fishy.

I'm not "ranting" at all. I am merely pointing out facts about the case of this guy being illegal and my opinions on illegals who seem to think that they are smarter than the system.

Indeed, it should be investigated - I've not disputed that at all. What I am disputing is all the bleeding hearts on here who are jumping to conclusions and a poster who seems to think that being illegal is okay. I support the wife in finding out but I also support the wife being charged with helping an illegal.

Indeed Bass, focus on immigration officers and this case but let's not all join hands and state that this guy is just an innocent victim. IF he had had the proper visa, none of this would have happened. Where is his responsibility in all of this? And his wife's?

Gagging? Well, if the person is kicking and screaming, trying to bite, why not? If you don't want to be treated in such a manner don't behave in a manner that "warrants" it. I'm certainly not going to defend immigration on this but I'm certainly not going to join the bandwagon here that assumes that immigration is at fault for the death of this man. Innocent until proven guilty, right? I mean, if this was a case of a foreigner being charged for murder, those screaming that he's was killed by immigration officers would be screaming "Innocent until proven guilt", right?

Like it or not, the guy was here illegally. Now then, immigration had every right to deport him as well, even if he married a Japanese woman.

From one point of view it could be said that it APPEARS he married the Japanese woman to stay in Japan, and "legalize" his status.

Another could be said that he fell in love, and tried to go through the process of making himself legal here to stay with his wife.

Either way, there is NO justification to cause the man to die.

It's always bad when someone dies. Illegal immigrants are very annoying. He may didn't deserve to die but he still deserved a punishment. I don't approve of him but I show him my condoleances, I show him my condoleances but I don't approve of him.

There is something that people who criticize Japan's mentality must understand. The mentality in Asia is not like in Occident, don't try to force your (dubious) values on them ! There is a difference between "having the japanese nationality" and "being Japanese", we are not in Occident where everyone changes their nationalities as if it were just a game. It's very, very pathetic if you don't get it. If the only thing you want is living in peace, you can stay in the USA or in Europe ! No one asked you to come to Japan, stop complaining when all you are doing is looking for trouble. Japan is in a period of peace, leave it alone.

The immigration officers must have been pretty rough, sure, but that's what happens when someone break the rules. It's better to be severe than being laxist. If there wasn't this severity, foreigners would come in mass to Japan and it would be the end. Also, the illegal immigrant's death was an accident, not a murder, it mustn't be exagerrated.

And I would like to add something : Accusing Japan of discrimination then saying "Japaneses are idiot, stupid and racist" and creating foreign communities is so HYPOCRITICAL. It disgusts me.

tmarie-

Lowly, indeed work conditions are very questionable. People hire illegals because they know they can u set pay them, over work them and abuse them. On of the reasons I am so against illegals is because of the treatment they face I these regards. If companies were fined for hiring illegals and give huge fines, they'd hire legals. This means better wages and better working conditions for everyone. Would they be much better than the current situation?

I don't get what you're saying. One of the reasons you are so against illegals is that they face such a tough situation and you want them deported to make things better for them and other workers? And in another post you hate the illegals because they don't pay taxes? (And that's bad because...? You have to pay something and it 's not fair? Or as a fellow foreigner you look bad or something?)

I don't know if you have some kind of double standard somewhere, or if you are someone with very high, strong ideals that you don't want to give up on, or what. But either way, I really get the feeling that you're ignoring, or not understanding some basic parts of reality.

This is the way I see it: Illegals are taking a chance on a better life, and betting their life on it by doing something dangerous. (Both the bad work conditions part and the actual illegal part). They are therefore courageous ppl and that is an asset to have in your society. Furthermore they are often overly honest and kind, tho of course there will be criminals among them. There is no minus to the society by them being here. Furthermore, they aren't going to care what you say morally about whether they should be here or not because it's "illegal" and therefore "bad". They are running away from poverty which is far far worse, or from war or from persecution. They don't care if they are "legal" very much. Furhtermore , the industries they are in are propped up by their cheap labor, and therefore they are more than making a contribution to J society. w/o them it is very conceivable there would be worse unemployment, worse world-japan economy.

OK but you want to kick them out no matter what, because of your strong attachment to this word "illegal". OK, fine, send them out.

But take some responsibility and find ppl who can do their jobs (kicking them out). These officers failed in their jobs. They killed him. There were manny many other possible outcomes. It was his own fault, he shouldn't have resisted, etc. DOES NOT CUT IT. They executed him for no reason. Pls read the j times article. The dr called what they did criminal. 10 unable to control someone w/o killing him, even if they were untrained, I can't imagine it. This is beyond illegal immigration, this is having civil servants who can take the responsibility to do their jobs. Civil servants who can take the responsibility to open ly investigate what went wrong when st went wrong. Who can fire and prosecute when bad apples do illegal things (since you don't like thonse things...) on the job -wrong restraints, -no video, -personally purchased restraints used, -illegal choking methods, etc etc.

Get those guys in jail!! or at least off that job!! Show that you take your job seriously!! Then you and I can say that we live in a safety country!

Sieulos

There is something that people who criticize Japan's mentality must understand. The mentality in Asia is not like in Occident, don't try to force your (dubious) values on them ! There is a difference between "having the japanese nationality" and "being Japanese", we are not in Occident where everyone changes their nationalities as if it were just a game. It's very, very pathetic if you don't get it. If the only thing you want is living in peace, you can stay in the USA or in Europe ! No one asked you to come to Japan, stop complaining when all you are doing is looking for trouble. Japan is in a period of peace, leave it alone.

Not this crap again. Japan is NOT an isolated nation. Japan is a part of the international community. Japan is a part of the UN. If Japan wishes to be a part of the international community, then it has to agree to follow its rules. Or Japan can go back to the 1800's sakoku period. The choice is yours.

Stop using your "culture" as an excuse to defend your intolerant ways. It's just sad and pathetic.

Sieulos

Japan is in a period of peace, leave it alone.

This is just laughable when the nation is currently in dozens of crisis (earthquake, nuclear problem, debt, territorial disputes, stagnating economy, failing companies, shrinking population, the list goes on) mostly caused by its INSULAR attitude towards the world. Wake up, Japan needs to learn how to get along with the world or it will soon be forgotten as a 3rd world nation of the past.

The immigration officers must have been pretty rough, sure, but that's what happens when someone break the rules.

The immigration officers are always terrible and racist towards any foreigners. They don't have to be causing any troubles so blaming the victims.

And I would like to add something : Accusing Japan of discrimination then saying "Japaneses are idiot, stupid and racist" and creating foreign communities is so HYPOCRITICAL. It disgusts me.

Then stop being so defensive for once.

African, Asian, European, etc. A lady lost her husband to an unfortunate chain of events. I hope that she finds peace. I personally don't know his motives for resisting besides the obvious that he didn't want to leave his wife. Instead of pointing fingers at an illegal that failed to get his paperwork done or the ruffhouse detention center guys I just hope it doesn't happen again. I myself am divided in opinion on illegal immigration as most do not come here to bring down the country but to better themselves like the PhD holder stated. I would have just been much easier and less fatal to go through the system. It's too bad he could not have just been granted a spouse visa for his marriage to a Japanese national.

This is an outrage. Period.

japan japan japan

asked russian goverment why they dont trust them aiaiaiaiaiaiaiaiaiaiai no good no good

This is extremely ridiculous that some people siting that the poor man was illegal how can any one justify killing of man for being illegal even during the wars no one is allowed to kill or harm a captured soldier.

well do you all know that at the very same time the Japanese Government working on a plan "coexistence society" (kyōsei shakai) within which non-Japanese (NJ) would be "accepted" (uke ire) lol and this case shows how serious they are ?? lol how kind they are ???

My wife overstayed her visa in New Zealand some time back. She was not deported. She was 'asked to leave' the country. There is a big difference between being asked to leave and being deported. If you are deported, you can't come back and the fact that you are married makes no difference to anything. On the other hand, if you are asked to leave, then you get an opportunity to do things over again and come back at some time in the future.

Illegal overstaying is not exactly a major problem in Japan the way it is in places like America with people constantly coming accross the border. They don't really need a tough policy. I suspect that the reason this guy was so uptight was because immigration chose the deportation option when they didn't really have to. This kind of thing doesn't happen to citizens of white countries nearly as often as it does to citizens of thedarker ones. I strongly suspect that how you get treated depends on your country of origin.

This man's death in the care of immigration officials is a bad look and shows that either their protocols are inadequate, not being followed properly or both. If he had been American this would have been a big big deal.

@tmarie it seems you dont really want illegals here,Well,I would leave it, that it is your choice.But,I will ask you to read about immigration rules and procedures in Japan.

You seem to be blaming the guy but not the officials.I have the opportunity to be helping detained people .In 2010, I once went to Azabu Police Station to help a detained Nigerian,there was a case of a British guy (if my memory serves me right) who had flown from Singapore to have a holiday in Japan.There was a fight at a bar and a Japanese guy alledgedly accused him of beating him.He had been detained for over 1month 2weeks even with about three law firms representing him,the Japanese prosecutor was asking him to accept the crime and apologize and walk away but he insisted that he didnot do it and so he was still be detianed.

The　legal system here is not that smooth as you think and it may be happening to someone so near to you.My arguement is about Justice for this guy,if an only if there was an improper conduct on the part of the Immigration authorities.

I rest my case.

And I feel no remorse for the choice I made by coming here as an illegal.I hope very soon,I would go and contribute my quota to the development of my country.

Thank you

@Netninja

You said it all.African Governments are the most useless and ineptitude government in this world.They squander state resources whiles the majority live in poverty. Personally,I dont put blame on others because I feel the African Governments are the ones to be blamed for the present state of Africa.Every country works for the interest of its people,just as Japan is doing.The countries allowing themselves to be manipulated are the ones been stupid here including Ghana.

In this guys case,we ordinary Ghanaians had to organize a demonstration in Roppongi as well as working with the wife to have justice.And Information we have doesn't seem things were fair at all.

When your country betrays you, you loose faith in the system.

The　legal system here is not that smooth as you think and it may be happening to someone so near to you.My arguement is about Justice for this guy,if an only if there was an improper conduct on the part of the Immigration authorities.

The legal system in Japan Not that smooth is putting it a tad bit lightly, wouldn't you think? I'd say more like diamond, razor abrasive IMHO.

Lowly, not sure what you're confused about. I am against illegals for various reasons. One being the way people abuse them and the system. Cheap labour bring downs wages. It also put legals and locals in a mind set that they are above working certain jobs so people can then turn around and make comments like 'If it wasn't for the illegals, such and such a job wouldn't be done" which is BS. Someone WOULD do the job - and the companies would have to pay them fairly and treat them well. Illegals have a higher rate of work related deaths and injuries, they have a lower rate of education (which is passed onto any kids they may have) and various other issues. IF these people were to become legals, they'd have better chances at jobs. Wouldn't that be better for them?

I support getting rid of illegals because I think it brings a lot of thing "down" - look at border towns in the US with high rates of illegals. Look at rent prices, wages, school standing... It isn't pretty. Allowing illegals to become legals gives people ideas that they too could be made legal - which is exactly what this guy thought by getting married.

Countries have a right to decide who they want to let in and who they don't. If you want to argue about the system here with regards to get visas, by all means. I won't disagree but that isn't the issue we're talking about. We're talking about an illegal alien who thought he was smarter than the system who got caught, detained and was being sent home. He fought and he ended up dead. Did immigration cause his death? I have no idea but it seems that most of the posters on here find immigration guilty without really knowing all the facts. Like I said, if the shoe was on the other fought people would be screaming outrage.

how can any one justify killing of man for being illegal Where is anyone justifying the "killing" of this man? I see no one doing that at all.

Bendover, your wife made a mistake. This guy didn't. He knew full well what he was doing and thought he was smarter than the system. You can't compare the two.

Kwabena, if you've bothered to read my posts, you'll see I am not suggesting that things are "smooth" here. The system is a mess, no doubt about it. You're argument isn't for "justice" at all. you've already decided the outcome without any trial, jury, judge or a hearing for that matter.

Had this guy not been illegal, none of this would have happened. Agree or disagree?

@tmarie for your records, I came to Japan on a tourist visa, overstayed my visa, worked in a factory for 3 years, saved money, changed my illegal visa status to "legal" student visa, spent 7 years in university in Japan and I now have my Phd, run my own consultancy business in Tokyo and have my permanent residency. Don't ask me how I did it. I am a proud Ghanaian living in Japan. I started as illegal immigrant. Sounds familiar? Do I deserve to die? NO

Do you have any idea the number of foreigners in Japan who have broke the law one way the other but still making contribution to Japan. We beat the system all the time but with good intentions. He didn't do a good job but don't deserve to die. People like you who thinks they know everything because the law says so make me sick in the guts. There is more than you see and hear. A precious life is lost OK? I don't know your background but we Africans value life more than you think.

This poor guy was trying to make a living to better his live here in Japan and help his family back in Ghana. He broke the law fine, did he deserve to die? NO. The officers need to be investigated and punished. This guy was doing a better job than Japan government giving ODN to African countries for the politicians to enrich themselves.

I mean ODA not ODN, wasting our tax money.

For my records? I'm not keeping records....

I've also not said anyone "deserves" to die. Such a shame that people cant' stick to the issue and not make up all kinds of accusations and wild comments when discussing such things.

Seems Japan has an issue with illegal Ghanians... do you think that is going to make it easier for legit Ghanians trying to get a visa? Nope. Your behaviour has a knock on effect whether you'd like to acknowledge it or not. People like yourself aren't helping your countrymen with regards to coming to Japan to work and make a better life for themselves.

but we Africans Just as annoying at "we Japanese". You don't speak for a continent, speak for yourself and yourself only.

@tmarie

let me state emphatically clear that Japanese have a very good reputation about Ghanaians than any other African here.You can ask any Japanese about Ghanaians.

It is not that we have a choice to be legal just as all other illegal immigrants from poorer countries.For others from developed countries, they have a choice of coming here on working permits.

Some decisions are made not because they are morally right or legal but because it is necessary.That is why people lose their lives on high seas when immigrating,wars are fought etc.It is for a reason.

For the illegals in Japan,for them the poor working conditions can not be compared to the benefits they accumulate whiles been here for even a month.some have stories on how the few bucks they have saved here would not have been possible even over his/her lifetime in their countries.And they are always grateful to the Japanese people.

The legal system around the world has moved past this your Retributive principle.You have never been in the footsteps of these illegals who come from places like Africa,South East Asia etc.

There is no way illegals working in Japan has affected wages,wages in factories has been pretty staple.Maybe you talking about salaries in the ALT field but that is a sector no illegal would dare go near.

I may not change your views,but I know the Japanese authorities have their own views.At least with my Japanese partner (not my wife),we have guaranteed the temporarily release of about 8 detained illegals including Asians .They report to immigration once every month and are working in factories.They are very grateful to the Japanese Government and good stories have been told about them in their workplaces.

If your fears is about immigration,the Japanese Government is doing a pretty good job in controlling it.People with even permanent residences has been stripped of it and deported.There is no cross border problems as in most western countries.

It is not that we have a choice to be legal just as all other illegal immigrants from poorer countries.

No, you have a choice. Come legally, don't come or be illegal. You chose illegal. You had a choice so please don't make it seem like you didn't. You, and others like you have a choice. You didn't have a gun to your head. You rolled the dice, took a chance and while it worked out for you, it doesn't for others. You don't get to play the sympathy card on this when you knew full well what you were doing was illegal but decided to go ahead with it all anyway. You always have a choice in these matters.

Perhaps you should read up on wages, illegals and why companies get away with treating their employees like dirt. There is a huge link and affect. To state there isn't is ridiculous.

And yes,it would have not happened if he had not been illegal.But there are other legal residents going through mental agony in the hands of Japanese authorities.

I suggest,in your free time, just pop in at the immigration or Police HQ and here the some cases.

i meant ,hear some cases.

@tmarie

You twist issues any how you want it.I guess ,you have never lived in a developing country and seen the problems these folks face.

If I said choice,I meant there is no working holiday or working permit for say in the ALT fields for folks from said countries.If not these opportunities that is available for citizens of some countries ,how many of them would be able to come on working permits?be frank to yourself.

Yes,illegal immigrants always take a chance and sometimes it works.Nobody has argued about the good of him been here illegal.He broke the law and they decided he should leave.Thats fine.

As I have said ,my argument is not the deportation order.The Japanese authorities reserve the right who to give a visa or not.It is about whether they played a role in his death.

People with even legal status are sometimes treated badly in some companies in Japan.Did you read of the Brazilian issue some years back?

get these illegals out of Japan now!

get these illegals out of Japan now!

As I said before, I believe in the rule of law, but it's easier said than done. I am for strong border control, coming from California, I know the problem very well, however, I have been to Mexico more than 18 times, love the country, the culture, the scenery, the people, in my opinion, doesn't get much better. I understand why many Mexicans try to sneak into the US, if I were them, honestly, I would probably do the same thing, I am more angry at the system in Mexico and at the Government than I am with the people. You can easily point the finger, but most of these people just want to to feed their families and move ahead in life and want the same things that you and I have in a first world nation, imagine if the shoe was on the other foot. I'm from the US, living in Japan, but sometimes I feel like a 3rd world immigrant the way I am treated, so try to have a little bit of compassion and understanding before you spout off some rhetoric like that, because you never know, where you might end up, you may just well be on that receiving end and you might be that person that someone wants out of their country.

Immigrants are vital to the development of each nation. Example, Iranians in Japan in late 80's and early 90's Turkish in Germany and on and on. Thousands have been deported from Japan. This time, operation went wrong. What happened? Thats all what we want to know.

If you shield the officers because he was illegal. What if illegals are flash out and still the economy is not in good shape? You are next, the so call legal immigrant. Do you deserve to die? Do you think Japanese court will protect you if you are fired from your company illegal even you are legal in Japan? Think again.

Yes,I was an illegal but now a PhD holder working in several sectors.

I am proud, how far I have come.

tmarie-

Lowly, not sure what you're confused about. I am against illegals for various reasons. One being the way people abuse them and the system. Cheap labour bring downs wages. It also put legals and locals in a mind set that they are above working certain jobs so people can then turn around and make comments like 'If it wasn't for the illegals, such and such a job wouldn't be done" which is BS. Someone WOULD do the job - and the companies would have to pay them fairly and treat them well. Illegals have a higher rate of work related deaths and injuries, they have a lower rate of education (which is passed onto any kids they may have) and various other issues. IF these people were to become legals, they'd have better chances at jobs. Wouldn't that be better for them?

I support getting rid of illegals because I think it brings a lot of thing "down" - look at border towns in the US with high rates of illegals. Look at rent prices, wages, school standing... It isn't pretty. Allowing illegals to become legals gives people ideas that they too could be made legal - which is exactly what this guy thought by getting married.

Countries have a right to decide who they want to let in and who they don't. If you want to argue about the system here with regards to get visas, by all means. I won't disagree but that isn't the issue we're talking about. We're talking about an illegal alien who thought he was smarter than the system who got caught, detained and was being sent home. He fought and he ended up dead. Did immigration cause his death? I have no idea but it seems that most of the posters on here find immigration guilty without really knowing all the facts. Like I said, if the shoe was on the other fought people would be screaming outrage.

My point was that you are sitting on the surface of the issue clinging to these words "legal" and "illegal" The reality of the situation is that Japan welcomes them takes them in on purpose, and uses them to prop up the economy. They use the word illegal to abuse them more easily is all. That's all. Jpn owes them gratitude, not derision. When you say things like "this illegal thot he was smarter than the system" and a lot of other things you say, you are really putting the person down, and putting the responsibility on his shoulders, when the system you are talking about was made by the jpns. With the intention of getting cheap exploitable labor.

If you are running a country and don't want to let outsiders in, fine. But you must take responsibility for your nationals bringing them in and making a profit on their sweat. How about exiling jpns nationals who do so, to make room for law abiding nationals? Or throwing them into jail? Breaking their legs? Of course it won't happen, bc they control the system, which you only see the surface of and like so much.

As far as dying, you should not be blaming this guy for his death. These "officers" used many illegal restraints, including their own they bought, illegal techniques, illegal choking holds. They were not professional, they did not know what they were doing. You don't have to have been there to know 10 ppl do not have to kill in order to subdue 1 person. Who has cuffs on!!! These guys should be put in jail for murder. That is simple keeping your own officials professional stuff. These guys at the very very best are simply incompetent. But I believe they were criminally responsible.

tmarie- repost quote function failed

Lowly, not sure what you're confused about. I am against illegals for various reasons. One being the way people abuse them and the system. Cheap labour bring downs wages. It also put legals and locals in a mind set that they are above working certain jobs so people can then turn around and make comments like 'If it wasn't for the illegals, such and such a job wouldn't be done" which is BS. Someone WOULD do the job - and the companies would have to pay them fairly and treat them well. Illegals have a higher rate of work related deaths and injuries, they have a lower rate of education (which is passed onto any kids they may have) and various other issues. IF these people were to become legals, they'd have better chances at jobs. Wouldn't that be better for them?

I support getting rid of illegals because I think it brings a lot of thing "down" - look at border towns in the US with high rates of illegals. Look at rent prices, wages, school standing... It isn't pretty. Allowing illegals to become legals gives people ideas that they too could be made legal - which is exactly what this guy thought by getting married.

Countries have a right to decide who they want to let in and who they don't. If you want to argue about the system here with regards to get visas, by all means. I won't disagree but that isn't the issue we're talking about. We're talking about an illegal alien who thought he was smarter than the system who got caught, detained and was being sent home. He fought and he ended up dead. Did immigration cause his death? I have no idea but it seems that most of the posters on here find immigration guilty without really knowing all the facts. Like I said, if the shoe was on the other fought people would be screaming outrage.

My point was that you are sitting on the surface of the issue clinging to these words "legal" and "illegal" The reality of the situation is that Japan welcomes them takes them in on purpose, and uses them to prop up the economy. They use the word illegal to abuse them more easily is all. That's all. Jpn owes them gratitude, not derision. When you say things like "this illegal thot he was smarter than the system" and a lot of other things you say, you are really putting the person down, and putting the responsibility on his shoulders, when the system you are talking about was made by the jpns. With the intention of getting cheap exploitable labor.

If you are running a country and don't want to let outsiders in, fine. But you must take responsibility for your nationals bringing them in and making a profit on their sweat. How about exiling jpns nationals who do so, to make room for law abiding nationals? Or throwing them into jail? Breaking their legs? Of course it won't happen, bc they control the system, which you only see the surface of and like so much.

As far as dying, you should not be blaming this guy for his death. These "officers" used many illegal restraints, including their own they bought, illegal techniques, illegal choking holds. They were not professional, they did not know what they were doing. You don't have to have been there to know 10 ppl do not have to kill in order to subdue 1 person. Who has cuffs on!!! These guys should be put in jail for murder. That is simple keeping your own officials professional stuff. These guys at the very very best are simply incompetent. But I believe they were criminally responsible.

I'm not sitting on any surface. There is legal and there is illegal. Being against illegal doesn't mean I am against immigration. I 100% support immigration but I don't support the nation that illegals should be allowed to get visas for a country they've broken the law in - I also don't support visas for anyone with a criminal record.

I have also mentioned more than a few times that people who help these folks should be charged with crimes. Why do I have to keep repeating that?

And how many times do I also have to repeat that I'm not "blaming" this guy for dying? Seriously, how many times have I said it now? Five? Six? Why can you not see that one does not equal the other and that putting words in someone's mouth does nothing to help your "argument". If anything, it lessens it, makes me roll my eyes and not bother thinking about what you've written.

Iranians in Japan in late 80's and early 90's Is that a joke? Yes, they were great at supplying drugs, girls and other wonderful things to Japanese society. So much so that their visas restrictions were tightened and you find very few of them peddling their wares in street corners.

And you've made the same mistake as many others with assuming that folks are anti-immigration if they are anti-illegal immigrants. Again, they are NOT the same thing.

maybe that guy was trying to escape? .. but beating him to death thats not fair, we don't know the whole story so lets the immigrations solve this problem.

602miko, and tmarie-

There is a link in another poster's comment to the japan times article about this which has more info. Check it out. I would say this should not be left up to immigration,

tmarie-

not much more to talk about. we don7t seem to be communicating.

We don't seem to be communicating because you continue, let others, to suggest I'm saying things I'm not.

To Lowly, Kwabene, others, thanks for taking the time to post your opinions and provide some objectivity to this case.

Tmarie, and some of the others... Being an "Illegal alien" or whatever other crime this gentleman may have committed does NOT justify his death at the hands of these cruel and incompetent immigration officials. Since when does the end result come back to "would this have happened if he had not been illegal" or whatever? They are entirely different matters, and need to be addressed separately. Japan's penal code addresses the crime of being an illegal alien. It also covers manslaughter and other potential crimes associated with a wrongful death. They are not related. Please don't confuse the conversation with annoying comparisons. So if someone has a faulty taillight on this car and gets pulled over by 10 coppers and somehow gets beaten and killed in the process, you would ask the question "but would he have been pulled over and killed had he not had a faulty taillight"? Hopefully you can put your emotional response aside and see where I'm going with this...

But there is also the element of race and I know that, plays a significant part in this society as sad as that is, if you are Black (especially African and or South east Asian or just darker in general) Japanese will treat you (often) differently, some schools actually ask some companies to send them White teachers regardless of where they come from, if they come from Uzbekistan and can't speak English it's visually better to some schools than having for example a Pilipino that is a native speaker. Whether it's modeling, advertisements, TV commercials, shows, how many minorities do you see, how many whites do you see and blonde in particular? Blacks like Bob Sapp or Bobby are often portrayed as complete idiots, and any white person is taken very, very seriously. It is all about a matter of perception or image. Japanese don't know anything about Blacks or people of color, they are not trying to. How many black actors are known in Japan with the exception of Eddie Murphy? Talking about racism is the big pink elephant in the room, no one wants to acknowledge it and many Japanese believe in their hearts that they are NOT racists and I believe that, however, when you see how they treat people according to skin color, race, geographically or by occupation it becomes very interesting. I think it is a shame that we have to talk about this in 2012, but if you are white in Japan, Korea or China it is always seen as something positive and seen in a good image. Now the police and immigration officials still can be difficult to any foreigner, but when it comes to people of color, they handle them often quite differently. Again, no one really wants to talk about this, but anyone who has lived a long time in Japan, S. Korea, China can clearly see the difference. I thought this was a very interesting experiment, sad, but so true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ave6yOWKlj4&feature=related

I dont think Suraj deserved to die, but he does bear some responsibility. He lived 20 years plus as an illegal, only got married when he was busted, and by all accounts violently resisted when ordered to undergo legal deportation.

Of course there should be an investigation into the situation. Probably the immigration/airport personnel were untrained in how to subdue someone without killing/injuring them.

Still, what was the option? Let him go because he resisted? Wait until he calms down, then try the next flight?

Dave, your taillight analogy is not accurate. Suraj wasn't beaten for no reason, as in your example. He could have peacefully gotten on the plane, but he chose not to.

I hope this case does not end here and the wife takes it further.

My god, no one was charged!?

And only 21 people were admitted.

Japan is not the country you think it is

There are a number of issues this case makes me like to address.

The first is the matter of race. Japan is the land of the rising sun, and it belongs to the people of Japan. If the people of Japan suddenly decided they didn't want a single gaijin in their country and planned on deporting them back to their home country the next day, I support their decision. It's their country. If they don't want black people in their country, that's their choice. Japan is FOR Japanese people. Just look at Europe and how their mentality of letting everyone in hurt them. Their country, their rules. I'm not saying that's what this issue is necessarily about, but I wanted to say that anyway.

The second issue I'd like to address is how this individual was staying illegally and his deportation. Since this man was staying in the country illegally, it's their duty to send him back. This isn't a case of someone simply overstaying a couple of weeks or a month or two, if what others claim that he stayed here for 20 years is true (I don't remember reading that but assuming it's true) they had every right to deport him.

The final bit is how he died when he was being deported. It is understandable that he would not want to be deported, and that he would twist and shout and do anything possible to avoid getting on that plane. Who would want to leave a life in Japan over Ghana? Don't find what I am about to say racist, but it must have been difficult for Japanese men to hold a black man down. They are much bigger than Japanese on average, and stronger too. Perhaps this is why he died in the process, they needed so many to hold him down. I'm not sure. This should be investigated because his death is not unfortunate, even though his actions led to the likely over the top methods used by the Japanese immigration officials, which may have led to the heart attack.

Sorry for the long post, I had a lot to say.

@Tuntematon

The first is the matter of race. Japan is the land of the rising sun, and it belongs to the people of Japan. If the people of Japan suddenly decided they didn't want a single gaijin in their country and planned on deporting them back to their home country the next day, I support their decision. It's their country. If they don't want black people in their country, that's their choice. Japan is FOR Japanese people. Just look at Europe and how their mentality of letting everyone in hurt them. Their country, their rules. I'm not saying that's what this issue is necessarily about, but I wanted to say that anyway.

So if other countries that did this to a Japanese national or if in Brazil or California we decided to deport ALL Japanese, that would be ok too, right it's their decision too and on the flip side you wouldn't have an issue with that either right, just want to make a simple comparison. Japan is for Japan and then Japanese need to stay here and all the Blacks and Europeans can stay or you mean, the Europeans can stay, but the Blacks leave, this I think what you really want to say. I mean, look at Europe, they need to kick the Blacks out too, right?

The second issue I'd like to address is how this individual was staying illegally and his deportation. Since this man was staying in the country illegally, it's their duty to send him back. This isn't a case of someone simply overstaying a couple of weeks or a month or two, if what others claim that he stayed here for 20 years is true (I don't remember reading that but assuming it's true) they had every right to deport him.

It's their duty to uphold the law, NOT gagging the individual and man-handling the person. Were you there? How do you know if the man was taunted or he could have been beaten or inappropriately hit. you/we just don't know and this being Japan and the lack of transparency on the part of these city officials, we night never know. Add to that the xenophobia that often the immigration and police show and the lack of compassion that they have, tensions can run high. I am not defending him as far as the over stay or legality of him staying. But again, we are taking about a human being, the man killed no one, wasn't a rapist, didn't rob a bank, was not a danger to the general public. There was no need to handle him as violently as they did. Sometimes you can get more with honey than with vinegar.

Who would want to leave a life in Japan over Ghana? Don't find what I am about to say racist, but it must have been difficult for Japanese men to hold a black man down. They are much bigger than Japanese on average, and stronger too. Perhaps this is why he died in the process, they needed so many to hold him down. I'm not sure. This should be investigated because his death is not unfortunate, even though his actions led to the likely over the top methods used by the Japanese immigration officials, which may have led to the heart attack.

You are digging a hole here. This has racism written all over it. Have you been to Ghana? How do you know if he or others prefer living in Japan over their country. That kind of inflammatory statement is the same as when the Europeans that that the way the Africans lived or the Native Americans lived, they must want to live like us and be like us, they need to embrace modernization, they need to talk like us learn our ways, dress like us, embrace Christianity and then, they will be happy, if so why did many slaves try to run, why did many Native Americans revolt or try to kill the Europeans? You think living in Japan is a perfect paradise?? I'm not even going to comment on the size of Blacks vs Japanese, it was just way too incendiary and over the top racist comment to make. I think you some personal issues with Blacks, I don't know what they are, but you need to really take a deep look inside yourself. It's a shame that in 2012 we have to hear this kind of rhetoric.

@kwabena, obviously with a PhD you're a smart guy. What was it that made you stay as an illegal, did you not know that you were breaking the law, or did you just think that the rules don't apply to you.

Immigration rules are based on economic not race issues. You are performing a job and getting compensated. Was there nobody from Japan or that was here legally that could do the same job? So in essence, you have taken a job from someone who played by the rules. Every dishonest act makes it harder for honest people.

I have read your posts and ask you, do you think this man should have been deported? And if so, how?

So if other countries that did this to a Japanese national or if in Brazil or California we decided to deport ALL Japanese, that would be ok too, right it's their decision too and on the flip side you wouldn't have an issue with that either right, just want to make a simple comparison.

Indeed, we must respect our host's decisions. Apparently you don't respect them. Also, there are special cases like the USA where it's not the same.

Japan is for Japan and then Japanese need to stay here and all the Blacks and Europeans can stay or you mean, the Europeans can stay, but the Blacks leave, this I think what you really want to say. I mean, look at Europe, they need to kick the Blacks out too, right ?

See, you are making something up. He didn't talk about blacks and by yourself, you are bringing the black issue, then you complain that there is racism. Isn't there a problem ? Step 1 : Creating a problem /// Step 2 : Accusing others of creating this problem /// Step 3 : Fixing the problem you created /// Step 4 : Acting like a poor victim who won against nasty people - when you are the nasty one -.

It's their duty to uphold the law, NOT gagging the individual and man-handling the person. Were you there? How do you know if the man was taunted or he could have been beaten or inappropriately hit. you/we just don't know and this being Japan and the lack of transparency on the part of these city officials, we night never know.

What you mean is that you don't know anything, so don't talk.

Add to that the xenophobia that often the immigration and police show and the lack of compassion that they have, tensions can run high.

Lack of compassion ? You said yourself by you don't know anything. Also, it's too bad but if they didn't have such a strict immigration control, immigrants would do everything they want if it was like in Europe. The Ghanaian, for example, stayed during several years because Japan was too laxest. Do you at least realize this ? Being laxest like you say would just create another USA-bis. In Europe, we have the experience of what happens when people are "compassionate" like you say. Immigrants choose where to go as if it was about choosing a football team and illegal immigrants come in mass because they know that they won't be "violently deported" and have no risk.

I am not defending him as far as the over stay or legality of him staying. But again, we are taking about a human being, the man killed no one, wasn't a rapist, didn't rob a bank, was not a danger to the general public. There was no need to handle him as violently as they did. Sometimes you can get more with honey than with vinegar

The man resisted, the man didn't want to follow the authority, the man refused to listen to the law during several long years. I don't think he would have died if he did all of this, don't you ? Didn't he have a long span of time where Japan was "compassionate" enough to let him leave when he would have decided to ? And even with this "compassion", he didn't leave. If Japan did like you say, all immigrants would do as they please and it would be the end of Japan. I should add, don't forget this was an accident, because you make it look like Japaneses are murderers.

You are digging a hole here. This has racism written all over it. Have you been to Ghana? How do you know if he or others prefer living in Japan over their country.

Apparently the Ghanaian did. Every people who immigrate to Japan does.

That kind of inflammatory statement is the same as when the Europeans that that the way the Africans lived or the Native Americans lived, they must want to live like us and be like us, they need to embrace modernization, they need to talk like us learn our ways, dress like us, embrace Christianity and then, they will be happy, if so why did many slaves try to run, why did many Native Americans revolt or try to kill the Europeans? You think living in Japan is a perfect paradise??

He's not doing some occidental propagandia like you're insinuating, he's putting himself in the place of the Ghanaian and you are interpreting his words completely wrong.

I'm not even going to comment on the size of Blacks vs Japanese, it was just way too incendiary and over the top racist comment to make. I think you some personal issues with Blacks, I don't know what they are, but you need to really take a deep look inside yourself. It's a shame that in 2012 we have to hear this kind of rhetoric.

This was racism and rhetoric ? ORLY ? Do you know at least their definitions ? Everyone in the world knows that Black people are stronger than Asians, if for you this is racism, then you are fantastically close-minded. I'm Asian, I'm saying that I'm weaker than Blacks, do it means oh nooo I'm racist ? Are you serious ? SERIOUS ? It's a shame that in 2012 someone so close-minded still exists.

Tuntematon Sotilas

The first is the matter of race. Japan is the land of the rising sun, and it belongs to the people of Japan. If the people of Japan suddenly decided they didn't want a single gaijin in their country and planned on deporting them back to their home country the next day, I support their decision. It's their country. If they don't want black people in their country, that's their choice. Japan is FOR Japanese people.

Wrong, Japan is a part of UN and UN declares that human rights are universal. Japan can't just deport every gaijins because it feels like it. If they wanted that then they would have to go back to their isolationism period.

I think that you're being way too naive and fantasist about this. Think of the implications that would bring to the international community had Japan done this. It would actually hurt Japan more than anybody else. Nobody would trade with Japan, nobody would do business with Japan, nobody would defend Japan, nobody would come to Japan, nobody would do anything with Japan.

Perhaps this is why he died in the process, they needed so many to hold him down.

People don't usually die just because they were held down, but what do I know.

What I am criticizing are immigrants

Not really. You're criticising foreigners living in Japan.

I notice no criticism of, say, the millions of Japanese immigrants living in Brazil (which you like for its "Brazilian" culture). I live here because I fell in love with my wife and wanted to be with her. She didn't want to go to England, so I ended up here. Really, is that so bad?

Indeed, we must respect our host's decisions. Apparently you don't respect them. Also, there are special cases like the USA where it's not the same.

What are you talking about? I never said, I don't respect THE host, I said, I don't respect violence and the death that it caused this individual or any other individual for that matter, regardless of geographical origin.

See, you are making something up. He didn't talk about blacks and by yourself, you are bringing the black issue, then you complain that there is racism. Isn't there a problem ? Step 1 : Creating a problem /// Step 2 : Accusing others of creating this problem /// Step 3 : Fixing the problem you created /// Step 4 : Acting like a poor victim who won against nasty people - when you are the nasty one -.

I am bringing up the Black issue because it is relevant, do I know if the immigration officials were flat out racists, I do not, however, given the history as to how Japanese view race, I'm willing to make a safe bet on it. Again, I don't know what you are ranting about. I am not talking about the crime, we all know he was wrong, so you are saying for what he did makes the actions of the immigration officials justifiable??! Also, none of my posts were nasty, but if you think I am nasty because I think they should do a full and thorough investigation of the death of a man and wanting answers for his wife and family, then perhaps I am nasty.

What you mean is that you don't know anything, so don't talk.

One thing I do know is that JT is an open forum and open to the public, therefore I should be able to talk freely and make comments as I please. You are making good use of it as well.

Lack of compassion ? You said yourself by you don't know anything. Also, it's too bad but if they didn't have such a strict immigration control, immigrants would do everything they want if it was like in Europe. The Ghanaian, for example, stayed during several years because Japan was too laxest. Do you at least realize this ? Being laxest like you say would just create another USA-bis. In Europe, we have the experience of what happens when people are "compassionate" like you say. Immigrants choose where to go as if it was about choosing a football team and illegal immigrants come in mass because they know that they won't be "violently deported" and have no risk.

Straw man argument. Illegal immigration is a problem and nightmare for most first world nations and quite often there are mistakes and things slip through the loopholes. As I said, before put yourself in an immigrants shoes for a moment, I am all about strict borders, but beyond that, there should be a humane way to treat these people and if they stay illegally, fine, they need to go, they broke the law, no argument, but it has nothing to do with being violent with people and Japan is starting to get a track record at ruffing up people and for what? Like I said, you weren't there, you don't know what transpired. How do you know the immigration officials didn't hit or taunt him? You don't know and you can't say unequivocally that the way the immigration officials handled this situation was the proper way.

The man resisted, the man didn't want to follow the authority, the man refused to listen to the law during several long years. I don't think he would have died if he did all of this, don't you ? Didn't he have a long span of time where Japan was "compassionate" enough to let him leave when he would have decided to ? And even with this "compassion", he didn't leave. If Japan did like you say, all immigrants would do as they please and it would be the end of Japan. I should add, don't forget this was an accident, because you make it look like Japaneses are murderers.

I never said, Japanese were murderers, you said that. Again, as I stated above, that is there version of what happened, but how do you know it happened the way THEY say it happened? Was there a video? Do the immigration officials have any evidence that can back up their actions or are we just going to just let them spoon feed us whatever they want and go on believing them because they wear a badge?? You should be outraged that this kind of thing could have happened. So you think that the immigration officials and the police are really honest 100% of the time and are incapable of doing anything wrong, am I right so far?

Apparently the Ghanaian did. Every people who immigrate to Japan does.

So you think Japan is a model and a beacon for everyone to come over and make it big. This country is the land of golden opportunities. hmmm, good to know.

He's not doing some occidental propagandia like you're insinuating, he's putting himself in the place of the Ghanaian and you are interpreting his words completely wrong.

Again, you totally don't get it.

This was racism and rhetoric ? ORLY ? Do you know at least their definitions ? Everyone in the world knows that Black people are stronger than Asians, if for you this is racism, then you are fantastically close-minded. I'm Asian, I'm saying that I'm weaker than Blacks, do it means oh nooo I'm racist ? Are you serious ? SERIOUS ? It's a shame that in 2012 someone so close-minded still exists.

First of all, I am not a racist, second, you don't know anything about me or my background, you throw insults at me, call me names and taking this way to personal by attacking me, when you should be wanting answers as to how such a tragic tragedy could have happened. To top it off, so you know for a fact that ALL Blacks are big and stronger than EVERY Asian on the block, do you know how you sound? You need to stop generalizing, or do you want to say next is that all Asians are great at math and science, all of them. How about adding: all whites don't know how to dance. You are starting to sound like "Jimmy the Greek Snyder" absolutely amazing!