Police find cyanide at home of 'black widow' suspect

@Frungy

Wow, you know stuff.... : )

zorkenNov. 21, 2014 - 05:54PM JST

Exactly correct. The initial report use the phrase "trace amounts". The human body contains "trace amounts" of gold, but no sane person would seriously view this as evidence that you had been munching down on bars of gold.

I was always led to believe (perhaps wrongly) that cyanide broke down in the human body after death - so after a few days only trace amounts would be left. (Too many cheap detective stories maybe!)

It does, normally within a couple of days (but again the precise compound used, dosage, etc can make this highly variable), and if this was the 1960's (when your cheap detective stories were set?) that would be all she wrote, however with modern techniques a crime lab can examine the liver and find bio-markers for cyanide poisoning that are stable for weeks or even months (again, depending on the compound used, dosage, etc, etc.).

And this was my problem with the article. With modern medical techniques cyanide poisoning is relatively easy to detect and distinctive. Even without modern medical techniques the bodies of cyanide poisoning victims normally are pinker than is expected for their time of death, there's often a smell of almonds, and often there's visible damage to the kidneys and liver. It would take an incompetent or very inexperienced medical examiner to miss all of the signs. From there its just a simple case of taking a liver sample and confirming cyanide poisoning.

To regard "trace amounts" of cyanide in the body as proof of anything... well, that's an indication that those involved have no idea what's going on. If they'd said that the liver showed evidence of lethal doses of cyanide then the case would have a leg to stand on. However a blood test that showed "trace amounts"? The only thing that shows is that they have no clue about medicine.

But this is fairly typical of sloppy medicine in Japan. "Specialists" who go their degrees 40 years ago and haven't picked up a single journal article since that time.

Craighicks:

" Cyanide is present in acetonitrile false fingernail remover, and false fingernails are popular in Japan. "

Among 71-year old men? Really? Am I missing something?

Her comment is strange: "why would I do something that would cause my arrest...?" Not even "why would I do something like that to a person I loved?" Odd lack of remorse for so many deaths.

Of course I think she is -probably- a murderess because of the circumstantial evidence and motive. However, reporting "traces" of cyanide in the men's bodies and in the trash, is highly irresponsible. The case is now prejudiced - as in "already judged". As a matter of principle the police (anywhere) should err on the side of caution before releasing information, unless perhaps it is necessary for the purpose of protecting the public or gathering more information.

For example, the police leaked information that Yoshiyuki Kouno was the man who released poison gas in Matsumoto, killing seven (that number seven again!), sickening many more and sending even his own wife into a coma. It was revealed that Kouno had a large amount of pesticides stored at his residence. But it later turned out that Kouno was not involved at all, it was in fact a test run executed by Aum Shinri Kyo in preparation for their Kasumigaseki sarin attack.

Trace amounts. Many many people have been wrongly punished for trace amounts of opiates showing up in their blood tests, when the actual reason is substances in poppy seeds commonly found on bagels, rolls, breads, and in salad dressing. Here is a partial list of cases: http://www.snopes.com/medical/drugs/poppyseed.asp

Being thorough about justice is well worth the effort.

Two of her husbands were found with evidence of cyanide ingestion; the one with 'traces' was surely the earlier one, the 71-yr-old in 2012.

"and reportedly recovered cyanide from her trash"

Cyanide is present in acetonitrile false fingernail remover, and false fingernails are popular in Japan.

Praying mantis for cash might be a better description.7? Really 7 after 3 wouldn't you be slightly suspicions?

Exactly correct. The initial report use the phrase "trace amounts". The human body contains "trace amounts" of gold, but no sane person would seriously view this as evidence that you had been munching down on bars of gold.

I was always led to believe (perhaps wrongly) that cyanide broke down in the human body after death - so after a few days only trace amounts would be left. (Too many cheap detective stories maybe!)

How could the police suspect anything untoward when it was only 7?

If none of the other deaths were treated as suspicious then it doesn't surprise me. It's far easier now to connect the dots then it would have been at the time I suspect. But I think this case is probably (another!) massive failure of the autopsy system in Japan. Despite repeated political promises it still seems to be a broken mess that is hardly ever used by the police. Considering that if it was effective the murder rate would undoubtedly rise, perhaps they would prefer it to remain as is.

Actually, I don't think the poster who wrote that was trying to "exonerate" the "Black Widow" from being guilty

Well, let's agree to disagree then because he first comment was this:

FrungyNov. 20, 2014 - 07:41AM JST I am dubious about these charges.

The rest of the post seemed like a pretty good attempt to 'exonerate' the 'Black Widow'. It was and still is my feeling that the poster jumped the gun in the wrong direction.

This can only mean her last husband was trying to poison her.

an arrest warrant should only be issued if there is sufficient evidence to secure a prosecution.

No. What if the suspects run, or destory evidence, or commit another crime or suicide? They need sufficient evidence for a prosecution but not for an arrest.

@WilliB

Now they found cyanide in her house..... are some of our commenters here still are arguing it was all apple seeds and almonds?

Who's arguing ???

I'm opposed to the death penalty in principle, but it's likely she will cop it under Japanese law. In Japan's case - all the more excruciating as in-mates are only told of their impending execution date 24 hours beforehand

Now they found cyanide in her house..... are some of our commenters here still are arguing it was all apple seeds and almonds?

FightingViking - Exactly correct. The initial report use the phrase "trace amounts". The human body contains "trace amounts" of gold, but no sane person would seriously view this as evidence that you had been munching down on bars of gold.

Now that the cyanide has been found I'd say the case is much stronger, but they would still need to show that it was the murder weapon. It takes a lot more than a "trace amount" of cyanide to kill someone, although a lot depends on the compound used. The lethal dose varies widely depending on how it is administered and the chemical composition.

From a medical standpoint what is bothering me about this case is that cyanide poisoning is usually very distinctive and easy to recognize.

From a legal standpoint what bothers me is that they arrested her with only circumstantial evidence at that time. The physical evidence only came later. My understanding is that an arrest warrant should only be issued if there is sufficient evidence to secure a prosecution.

With that kind of oshare and being past the enjo kosai age, can that still be doubtful. More so because of the number of men who died all suddenly.

guess we won't see any comments saying "coincidence" today.

@slumdog

Gee...I guess the cyanide did not come from 'almonds' as one poster attempted to suggest.

Actually, I don't think the poster who wrote that was trying to "exonerate" the "Black Widow" from being guilty, I believe he/she just wanted to point out there "could be" other sources for imbibing poisonous substances such as cyanide. His/her opinion was given from a "medical" point of view that could have given "reasonable doubt" to her being guilty... Of course, now the cyanide has been found in her apartment, I guess the "reasonable doubt" is no longer "reasonable"...

"I did not do it. ... I'm not that stupid."

"If people suspect murder, I'd find it easier to bite my tongue off and die."

Hope you've got some strong chompers lady, get to work!

I guess that it would be considered rude to ask why 7 men died and why she managed to collect their insurance. How could the police suspect anything untoward when it was only 7?

Wonder if each partner knew her marriage history. I would definitely steer clear of a woman married that many times especially knowing that all the exes were dead.

I really want to know why it took 7 husbands before this woman was finally investigated. One or two partners dying can be understandable but you would figure after collecting insurance claims on 3 through 6 some red flags would have come up.

6 partners in a row dying within months of being with her? this just does not happen. It doesnt take much to realise foul play is evident as far as this evil woman is concerned. She needs to pay the price for her crimes now.

SO she could do this SINCE 1994?????

Noone was suspicious after the 2nd husband? I mean if 1 husband passes away I can understand but after2, that already raises suspicions and then after number 3, game over. She could do it for 20 years and 7 people. Astonishing.!

Very interesting investment strategy.

She did it all for herself? Is there a puppetmaster who'll gain while she takes the rap?

It's nothing rare that a serial murderer exists in Japan. Years ago, the FBI stated there were 'up to 500 hundrer' active serial killers in the U.S. and considering the population and mental health issues which have plagued Japan since the last two or three decades, it's common that these kind of crime occurs.

Now, it's up to the justice system to show whether there is a bias toward male murderers when it comes to applying and handing down a death sentence.

Evil girl

@SauloJpn No, HUSBAND #4 was in Dec. She had some "boyfriends" too

Gee...I guess the cyanide did not come from 'almonds' as one poster attempted to suggest.

Wait a minute, number 4 was just last December, so in these last 11 months she killed 3 more people, as in got involved, got them to change their insurance policy and killed them? What a busy witch! "I am not that stupid" are words often preceded or followed by actions that show the contrary.

You gonna swing now Baba ....