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Transgender convict seeks to be treated as female inmate in prison

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She may be attracted to women - so what? That happens everywhere including prisons.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

The problem being in a woman's prison is that s/he may be heterosexual and attracted to women. Gender identity and sexual orientation are different. A guy could identify as a woman but be heterosexual, and thus would still be attracted to women even after "becoming" one.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Why in the world does the writer refer to this guy as a 38 year old "woman"? Then go on to keep referring as him as "she".

Because the person in question identifies themself as such.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Why in the world does the writer refer to this guy as a 38 year old "woman"? Then go on to keep referring as him as "she".

0 ( +2 / -2 )

"She also served 16 months in prison between 2011 and 2013 for theft and complained of mental anguish as a result of being overseen by male prison guards as well as palpitations and insomnia after being deprived of the chance to undergo hormone therapy." * ***TOP TIP if you don't want a hard time in ANY prison don't shop lift or steal goods!**

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It seems like it would be pretty nasty for a transgender in either a male or female prison. Maybe they should have a special prison for these types of people, a gender friendly prison. The Scandinavians will probably be the first to come up with such a thing if they haven't already.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

If I ever get sentenced to prison in Japan, I'm certainly going to begin identifying as a woman so they put me in the Japanese women's prison.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

misunderstoid -- misunderstood

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Goodlucktoyou,

"prison since last year without trial, now 18 months in prison, for shoplifting? "

You seem to have greatly misunderstoid this paragraph:

"She was indicted last year without arrest for shoplifting in the city of Sapporo. A district court handed down a prison sentence of 18 months, and the judgment was upheld by a high court. In July, the Supreme Court rejected an appeal and the convict is set to be imprisoned soon."

Strangerland,

"Many of us non-Asians here have children with Japanese women. "

And many of us non-Asians here have children with Japanese men.

I suppose that in this case at least we can avoid the pronoun quandary by using terms such as the convicted person, the soon-to-be inmate.

Im thinking it's high time we have prisons for females, prisons for males, and prisons (or more practically, small sections of) prisons for any inmates who do not readily fit into either of those. I know that in certain prisons some accommodations have been made for older and infirm inmates or non-Japanese inmates. There would be financial and practical issues but I'm thinking it's just one of those things that society has to take on.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The only solution I can think of is to have a one on one fight trans vs the toughest female inmate, mano a mano

Yeah but that would still be a man vs a woman. Coz no matter how society might want to look at this person, man or woman, the body is still a man's body. It's like there was a Miss fitness contest some time in the USA. One of the contestants was a tran and when one of the females found it, she called the tran out and he/she got disqualified. The tran yelled discrimination and gathered followers but in the end, the person lost the case because parts or no parts, the tran still had a man's strength. Which would have been totally unfair for the women competing against him.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

BB.

Sure that will work as you got the doctors, etc to proof it. Get real.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

If I ever get arrested, I'm pulling the transgender card.

I'll demand to be placed in the woman's facility.

How can they prove me wrong and deny me my rights?

Are you transgender or are you just belittling them to make some kind of muddled point?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

And ah yes, the old "why should people be forced to accept other people!" When people say that, I have to ask what you mean by "accept".

How about having to accept a man into a woman's prison.

He can do whatever he wants but not to live and shower with female inmates.

Since we're talking about accepting, one way to look at it is that transgender people don't accept who they themselves are. If they accepted themselves, they wouldn't need to switch gender.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

If I ever get arrested, I'm pulling the transgender card.

I'll demand to be placed in the woman's facility.

How can they prove me wrong and deny me my rights?

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Raw Beer

I was talking more generally. And yes, that does happen a lot. Some places have become more open and accepting towards things like being transgender, but most people are still very much behind. When I say "forced" I don't mean people are threatened with being put in prison or killed if they don't conform (although that does still happen some places), I mean society and your surroundings have a way of pressuring you. And not accepting people being transgender is pressuring them to conform to your idea of how they should be.

And ah yes, the old "why should people be forced to accept other people!" When people say that, I have to ask what you mean by "accept". No one is asking anyone to completely cast away their own notions of gender, to go to gay clubs or whatever, or even talking to transgender people. Like gays, transgender only ask to be accepted and respected. To be treated like you would treat any other person. I don't think that's unreasonable or asking too much. And if you can't do that, well, maybe you are the one having some issues with handling your worldviews being rocked ever so slightly.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Gender roles are outdated and pointless when they force people to act, look and talk a certain way, just to conform to what other people think they should do.

As far as I can tell, nobody is forcing him to act, look, or talk a certain way.

I don't think others should be forced to accept anyone for how they feel.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Let's see now. This is a bloke that's attracted to male bodies. Gets 16 months in a prison full of men and now about to serve another 18. Does this person try to get arrested and sent to prison?

Ah, the old anti LGBT trope. They love prison, really.

Surprised at you, B. Thought you were above that kind of nastiness.

Keep up the hatred, guys. You can't physically harm the transgenders but you can certainly contribute to their decline with brave online taunts.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

@Jonorth

The fact that gender and sex are different things, that gender is something made up by society, is not at all unscientific - there is actually great support for this in scientific communities

Unfortunately, it's only in the social science community over the past 30 years as far as I can see. In the ordinary scientific community these words are still interchangeable and refer exclusively to identifiable biological characteristics that are binary in 99.9% of the population (true hermaphrodites are one notable exception).

However, do you realise that unlike yourself, many gender studies professors actually claim that biological sex doesn't even exist? Not simply that it is separate from the concept from gender. This is what I find most disturbing and why I'm not onboard with alot of this. The ideology just becomes more and more bizarre as they try to pretend that transgenderism has absolutely nothing to do with psychological issues, not even slightly.

To me, it is absolutely ridiculous that what you have or don't have between your legs gets to control your life in such a large manner.

I largely agree and I think we should accommodate everyone who has genuine psychological issues surrounding this or any other issue, as long as the cost and inconvenience to society is not a huge burden. The idea that we will only allow you to change your drivers licence from an M to an F if you undergo surgery to cut off parts of your body is pretty horrifying and unnecessary to me. Maybe we can just stop collecting alot of this gender data now that we have iris scans and other methods to identify people.

We have ideas about how women and men should look, talk, dress and act, and they are ingrained in us from the moment we are born.

There is research showing behavioural differences between males and females in the first hours after birth which stem from differences driven by biological gender. Even if society later plays a role, biological sex/gender is obviously real. (but you seem to agree that biological sex is real)

Let people be themselves. Don't let your junk (or lack of) decide what kind of fabric you can put on your body.

I completely agree. But I would amend this to say 'let people be whatever the idiosyncrasies in their own mind lead them to believe that they are (provided they don't harm anyone or result in an undue burden on society)'.

Some people just refuse to admit that biological sex/gender is real and that this concept of transgenderism exists solely in the mind for 99.9% of people. It falls squarely into the realm of psychology, not biology. There is absolutely nothing wrong or shameful about admitting this. We all struggle with psychological issues to some extent. And the argument that gender is only a social construct just seems to support that this is a psychological issue, doesn't it?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Illyas

Gender roles are outdated and pointless when they force people to act, look and talk a certain way, just to conform to what other people think they should do. And it's not like these people just change their identities on a whim. They change to stay true to what they believe and who they really are. Most people are more or less comfortable with how gender roles are, but I do not think it's fair to force them upon people who are not happy with it.

I guess I can see what you mean by gender roles bringing stability and forming society, but that should only be valid when these roles aren't hurting people - and they are hurting those forced to conform. I do not, however, at all see how recognizing transgender people would hurt your own identity. It's just accepting that my being female or male may differ from your view on being female or male.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Middleoftheroad:

Kleptomania is not a disorder, she was born that way. Its govt's persecution of her very being. Shopkeepers should be more accommodating and let her take "souvenirs" for free.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

To me, it is absolutely ridiculous that what you have or don't have between your legs gets to control your life in such a large manner. I really think it's time for humans to move on from these outdated, pointless ideas. I see absolutely no reason why people should be forced to hold on to their assigned gender-stereotypes. Let people be themselves. Don't let your junk (or lack of) decide what kind of fabric you can put on your body.

I don't see how gender roles are outdated and pointless. I think they they play a role in providing not merely stability but form to society. Identity isn't something that the individual gets to control alone, but something that's negotiated between the individual and broader society. Something like gender fluidity just strikes me as the opposite individualist extreme to a rigid collectivist society. When one can change their identity at will I don't think that identity really means anything at all. Which is why I think people with gender dysphoria should be free to do whatever they want in regards to their own body and behavior, but it's not the obligation of others to accept them as male or female just because they say they are. Because to do so may in fact undermine one's own identity.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

But language evolves with society, and just as our language is lagging, so are some members of our society.

Yeah、sometimes new language is being forced on us for bad motives...

To me, he is a man and he can do whatever he wants with himself.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

The headline should read "Transgender convict seek to...have his sex change treatments paid for by somebody else"

5 ( +8 / -3 )

M3M3M3

The fact that gender and sex are different things, that gender is something made up by society, is not at all unscientific - there is actually great support for this in scientific communities.

That is way the issue with gender can separate from race, ethnicity etc. What gender is - what it means to be a "woman" or a "man" is entirely, and sometimes very arbitrarily, made up by societies. We have ideas about how women and men should look, talk, dress and act, and they are ingrained in us from the moment we are born. So what if a person feels like their being doesn't fit with the ideas society have for people with that particular thing between their legs?

To me, it is absolutely ridiculous that what you have or don't have between your legs gets to control your life in such a large manner. I really think it's time for humans to move on from these outdated, pointless ideas. I see absolutely no reason why people should be forced to hold on to their assigned gender-stereotypes. Let people be themselves. Don't let your junk (or lack of) decide what kind of fabric you can put on your body.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Well how does a prisoner get on that is born with both.

Years back when i was an apprentice we showered with an Mediterranean kid that was genuinely an amorphadite .

He/she was called Brice as a first name ,

I took her to an Apprentice ball where she dressed like a very pretty young woman.

She then later slipped out came back looking like a boy, but the breasts gave her away ,

All of us that knew her differences kept it hush at Trade Technical college and other places but was very funny to see the looks of some of the other trades apprentices look when she changed to guys cloths.

At the ball then danced with all the guys that she trained with.

She turned out a top boilermaker and pressure welder .was more female down stairs than male

So give this messed up trans a break needs to be where he can get physic help and medication then placed where it can work of its debt to society in safety from rape.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

A few points....

1) 18 months for shoplifting seems far too long, even for a second offence. There's got to be better punishments that fit the crime!?

2) Regardless of her biological sex, it's basic respect to call/consider her a she if that's how she wishes to be addressed. Some people here are so quick to judge and hate - for what? Hate will just hurt her and won't make you any more or less of man for doing so.

3) It doesn't say in the article that the tax payer or prison system will pay for it. If she's undergoing treatment already, let her continue from within jail, on her own dime. You wouldn't stop a cancer patient from getting the treatment they required if incarcerated part-way-through, surely?

If she hadn't already started hormone treatment then it would a different story - she could wait until she's out, but as she's already started, stopping mid-way through could have negative health effects. Let the doctors make the call, not the prison officials. If the state is going to lock people up, it's their duty to look after their basic care and wellbeing.

4) I can see how her request to be treated like a woman can cause problems - as she's transitioning, and she's in jail - which don't cater for special cases. However I hope they do what they can.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@Strangerland

Age is not something that is fluid

How is age less fluid than gender if neither time nor chromosomes can be changed? Fluidity exists only in the mind. It's a feeling that cannot be proved by any objective measure. If someone is genuinely convinced that they are aging more quickly and thus 5 years older than what it says on their medical records, why would you deny them the opportunity to identify as the age they believe themselves to be? Especially if this alleviates some psychological dysphoria or trauma that they might be suffering on a daily basis? That might seem strange to you, but not to others. Of course, this reasoning of 'fluidity' can literally apply to every subjective reality existing in someone's mind, including the idea that you were born into the wrong body or the wrong whatever.

We can be nice to transgender people, offer them support and understanding, not discriminate against them, help them if they want to physically transition, change the sex on their drivers licence if the cost is not prohibitive, and even offer them some special accomodation if they end up in our prisons. But we can do all of this without drinking the kool-aid, without repeating these unscientific ideas that gender and sex are just 'cisnormative' social constructs that do not exist. It flies in the face of objective reality. I think this is what has alot of people stepping back and re-evaluating their support for the whole transgender movement in its current form.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

My point being they didn't just arbitrary decide decide on being male or female same go being for going females to being male.

Swings both ways.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

New-halves/transgender are common in the thai, etc sex industry, met many on my trips to Phuket and more countries.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Transgender/sex-change takes 2-4yrs and takes many operations and much physical and emotional pains. And yes it could be forced on anyone but being transgender also means being sterile ergo no kids.

Those people made an informed choice which can't be reversed.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Race, gender, creed, politics, sexual orientation, etc means little to me for the record. I validate you as a fellow human being.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

boils down to this: if you got the parts you are a guy and and are detained with guys. If you get the surgery to get girl parts, then you stay with the girls. Nuf said.

The government and tax-paying citizens will not pay for your surgery that onus is on you

2 ( +4 / -2 )

No problem at all. I'm sure the guys in prison are very happy to treat him/her like a woman

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Why ignore all of the other potentially 'fluid' characteristics such as race

Definitions of race are arbitrary, and applied by humans. Many of us non-Asians here have children with Japanese women. Are our children Asian? White (black/etc)? Both? Neither? They don't fit into those arbitrary racial definitions that we have come up with. So race is already fluid, we have just picked a few set markers that we like to define as race - black, white, Asian etc. Yet few people will fit exactly into the definition that we've come up with.

ethnicity

Ethnicity is cultural. Many of us who have been in Japan for years have become quite similar to the Japanese - we eat the same foods, visit the same holidays, follow the same traditions. Our children even more so. On top of this, ethnicity also is a series of arbitrary markers - even within the same ethnicity there will be differences. Ethnicity is already fluid.

age

Age is not something that is fluid, and cannot be changed. At some point we may gain the capability to rejuvenate our physical bodies, at which point the linguistic terms we have to describe apparent age may change, but we will still be a number of years from the time we've been born, and therefore will not change.

personal experience

Personal experience is something that is always changing, and always fluid. Every day you experience new things. Everything you experience in a given day may be things that you've experienced in the past, but it still adds to your experience in those things.

And think of this - the cells in your body are constantly dying and being replaced. 'You' of today is not actually the same 'you' of a few years ago. Your entire body has been replaced over a period of time with new cells. So what exactly is it that 'makes us who we are'? None of us is the same person we were yesterday or the day before, or the year before, or the decade before. It's simply that until recent decades, someone born with a penis now can choose to not have one, or vice versa. We change our hair color too (or even lose all our hair), and we grow taller as we grow out of childhood, and shorter as we grow older. It's just that some things that didn't use to be able to be changed, now can be changed. Our language just hasn't caught up to that yet.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

ベルチウシタ、me thinks thou doth protest too much...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Surprised how ill-informed some posters are.

If she is physically and legally a female no problem, plus there is much rape going on in female only prisons.

Castrated male/female can still get an erection and even produce some ejaculate. An erection (blood engorgement) is driven by the mind.

Jeez, inform yourself.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

I will say this, you commit crimes repeatedly and then expect the government to bend over backwards to make you comfortable, well you are in for a big shock, this is not the US or Europe. Also, In the US you have women guards looking over male prisoners and you don't hear any complaints. Where will it end, obese prisoners will feel body shamed if they have a skinny guard, and then foreign prisoners will want foreign guards!

Also, thinking 18 months for shoplifting is harsh, well I can guarantee that this person had many warnings and then had to, and will have to serve time, 34 months in total, that shows that this person is a repeat offender. This person should be getting mental help for kleptomania if anything.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

 However, placing a male into an all female prison does indeed put women at risk.

Fair enough. The only solution I can think of is to have a one on one fight trans vs the toughest female inmate, mano a mano. Winner decides who goes where. Problem solved. (tenner on the tough female)

As an aside, can ballsless men/trans who have been taking hormones for years still get an erection? If so, I reckon a fair few sex-starved female inmates would be sexually harassing the dude 24/7.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Those who have a hard time reconciling that gender is fluid nowadays

Nowadays? This is the core issue here. My honest question is simply why stop at only recognising the fluidity of gender? Why ignore all of the other potentially 'fluid' characteristics such as race, ethnicity, age, and personal experience which make us who we are? Someone's subjective reality could differ substantially on any of these personal characteristics but we don't go out of our way to accomodate them. For us to be able to keep a lid on this can of worms, you need to provide a cogent argument for why someone who genuinely believes that they are a woman should be allowed to put the taxpayers through the trouble of reassigning them to a woman's prison, while someone who genuinely believes they belong to a minority racial group should not be allowed to apply for scholarships and opportunities reserved for minorities. I don't think you can do it.

On a personal level, I have absolutely no problem with indulging people's subjective realities if it will make them feel better. It's the decent thing to do. But there is a real financial cost when we try to mould government and administrative society to fit everyone's subjective realities.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

unless they are trying to get funding for it from tax money

There are much bigger fish to fry if you want to get into tax issues.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

This is not a woman! It is a man trying to be a woman. It was convicted and sentenced as a man and should be referred to as 'he'. However, I bet 'she' is popular with all the other prisoners.

0 ( +9 / -9 )

it's not like another person changing their gender hurts someone

unless they are trying to get funding for it from tax money

8 ( +14 / -6 )

you can pretend to be a girl if you want, just dont expect the govt to pay for it

5 ( +12 / -7 )

Who are "these" people you are referring to?

Those who have a hard time reconciling that gender is fluid nowadays, because they are stuck in the mindset of a language that was created before that was true.

However, placing a male into an all female prison does indeed put women at risk.

I would agree about putting males in all female prisons. And personally, I don't think the person in this story is far enough in their transition to be put into a female prison. But, if we are talking a fully transitioned person, then I don't think they are male, nor do I see any issue with putting them in a female prison.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

These people are just fighting change they don't understand. 

After all, it's not like another person changing their gender hurts someone. And if it does, that hurt is in their own mind, and therefore their problem.

Who are "these" people you are referring to?

No, someone changing their sex organs does not hurt anyone. However, placing a male into an all female prison does indeed put women at risk. I personally would not want to be housed with someone with male parts in such a situation. This is why the genders are segregated. This isn't a self contained uni-sex bathroom we're talking about here. This is small, cramped, shared space and someone with male body parts doesn't get to demand to be placed with females because they want to be a woman. I don't want to see male bits in female locker rooms and I don't think female prisoners should have to either. Again, why should the feelings/safety of many be ignored for the sake of an individual in such cases?

As for the sentence, this is the second time this person has been found guilty. That's why it is "harsh" - let's be honest, the sentences for rape and murder here are a joke. I have very little sympathy for this person. If they want to change sex, fine. But don't expect the tax payers to foot the bill and make concessions because they can't follow the law and not steal.

4 ( +12 / -8 )

Sounds better suited to an institution than prison.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

woops missed the fe out of female

4 ( +5 / -1 )

"Boys have a penis, girls have a vagina." According to Kindergarten Cop, this guy is still a guy.

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Some people have a really difficult time with the terminology. It's because our language wasn't created at a time when people could switch genders, and therefore it is still playing catch up. But language evolves with society, and just as our language is lagging, so are some members of our society.

Give it it a couple decades and it will be no big deal. These people are just fighting change they don't understand.

After all, it's not like another person changing their gender hurts someone. And if it does, that hurt is in their own mind, and therefore their problem.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

Next time, to avoid confusion, don't steal anything!

3 ( +6 / -3 )

hmm.. nope.. if you really wanna go thru with surgery and its extremely important to a person to change their sex, they typically wouldn't do anything to interrupt it , like shoplift, twice in fact after given suspended sentence.

It is not taxpayer responsibility to pay for his sex change and he is a guy still , otherwise you are subjecting female prison service staff to sexual harassment.

It should serve as a lesson to not steal the next time around.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

Let's see now. This is a bloke that's attracted to male bodies. Gets 16 months in a prison full of men and now about to serve another 18. Does this person try to get arrested and sent to prison?

-12 ( +2 / -14 )

Exceptional case, exceptional measures.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

18 months in a Japanese prison for shoplifting seems awfully harsh. The better solution for society would be for this person to work, pay back the store and pay for the hormones using salary.

I avoided he/she because I don't know what I should use for a person with a penis who identifies as a woman. But, I'm thinking "she" would be the most considerate.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

18 months for shoplifting?! I see that they were arrested previously for the same crime, but that seems pretty damn harsh! Are we missing some details here?

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Mikiya Nakatsuka, professor at the graduate school of Okayama University, a specialist on gender identity disorder

Yup, stop here. GID is a psychological issue and a sex change is just using cosmetic surgery as a medicine, not going to work out well. Does this human still have a prostate? Well, he is a male. He can act, dress and choose his sexual desires, but he cannot choose his age or gender. Lock the thief up.

-5 ( +8 / -13 )

But the woman has only had testicles removed and has not changed sex in the family registry.

Odd sentence. The person in question is still registered as a male, still has a penis. That "woman" should read "man", no?

How would female inmates feel knowing that a person with a penis is living among them? I get that transgenders have a hard time and the like but what about the rights of actual women in jail who would have to room with his person? Do their feelings and rights not matter? Or does this person expect be placed in a special area with either others like them or alone?

8 ( +15 / -7 )

Let's look at some definitions:

male: of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring:male children.

female: of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes: a herd of female deer.

he: used to refer to a man, boy, or male animal previously mentioned or easily identified: everyone liked my father—he was the perfect gentleman.

she: used to refer to a woman, girl, or female animal previously mentioned or easily identified: my sister told me that she was not happy.

This article concerns a man, who has had his testicles removed, placed in a prison for men. Why does the article describe him as "she?" This person is male, not female. A person is not male or female because they feel male or female. They are what they are. The key part of sanity is recognition of reality.

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

if you don't want the state to take away your hormone therapy, then don't get arrested, you maroon. did they also remove your brain when they removed your testicles? and when you get out this time, change your registry to female.

3 ( +10 / -7 )

But the woman has only had testicles removed 

Only? Only?

9 ( +10 / -1 )

prison since last year without trial, now 18 months in prison, for shoplifting? rapists get about 3 years. sounds like transgender people have a hard time.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

"But the woman has only had testicles removed"

I see why you omitted the possessive pronoun there!

8 ( +8 / -0 )

Wow, second time in prison. Something is not right with this person.

On the hormone treatment the convict requested, the bureau said it is "not the state's responsibility" to allow it

I wonder, is the state actually preventing the therapy, or are they simply not willing to pay for it?

9 ( +12 / -3 )

But the woman has only had testicles removed

Um, women don't got testicules. Cutting off a guy's bollix don't make him a her.

-7 ( +14 / -21 )

Seems like a question for a doctor or group of doctors who work in this area not the decision of the prison system.

Having been through some degree of physical re-assignment surgery and taking hormones it is probably fairly damaging to stop now.

12 ( +16 / -4 )

On the hormone treatment the convict requested, the bureau said it is "not the state's responsibility" to allow it 

at least logic prevails here

2 ( +14 / -12 )

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