Transgender woman referred to prosecutors for using Osaka ladies room

A part time crossdresser, he should not be in female toilets.

If a man uses the Ladies toilets dressed as a woman, then a woman dressed as a woman complains stating a reluctance through fear to use the convenience then it is obvious sooner or later the matter was bound to come to a head.

Unisex toilets? Not sure that will go down well.

@Ronin Tsukebin

So if you see a woman in men's bathroom you will definitely know what her deal is ?

Have you ever checked what your chromosomes actually are, like really go and test them? If not, how would you know? In fact there are conditions where a person with XX chromosomes develops as a male and XY as female. Statistically speaking, how many people actually get checked in order to get a reasonably good statistics on the possible combinations and mutations of those genes.

Now, if I were a male to female transgender what would I do? I would be cognizant of the fact that were I to go into a women's restroom I would more likely cause distress than were I to go into a men's bathroom. Therefore, I would have used the men's room.

Barely anyone in the population, aside from neuroscientists, understand what gender is.

Everyone thinks its XX or XY chromosomes. Not so simple.

The part of the brain that determines one's gender is the sexual dimorphous nuclei in the hypothalamus. It's dimorphous because the shape determines gender.

So how does it take shape. female identity for XX and male for XY?

What's important is to understand how things can change.

First, everyone starts off female. The mullerian system is the gene system that develops female anatomy. Those with the XY chromosome pair have a set of genes that first need to deactivate (turn off) the mulluerian (female) development system, and then need to activate (turn on) the wolfian male development system. Biology isn't black and white and more of greyscale spectrum. Things can happen to interfere with this process, developing a mismatch with what's in the brain's sexual dimorphous nuclea.

Moreover, the shape (gender identity) of the sexual dimorphous nuclei is a function of hormone exposure during prenatal development. Over exposure to estrogens has been shown in lab experiments to change XY animals to female shape in the SDN.

Thus in the case of transgendered females, the likely explanation is that when they were prenatal, despite their XY pair of chromosomes, their developing bodies were exposed to estrogens from the mother shaping the SDN into a female brain, literally putting a female brain in a male body.

Hopefully this post has reached some people and change their understanding of this issue. All this information is available online. I learned about it in physiology of the brain textbook.

I he's got a phallus, he must use the gents, period.

Open and shut case. The "transgender" admits to being a male, being born of an XY chromosome pair. He should not have been in a women's bathroom. He should of just walked into the men's room and done his business. I would have been taken aback but I would immediately have known what the deal was. No harm done and i would have had no fear, but a women would think otherwise.

The transgender woman in her 40s, who police later confirmed entered the ladies' room in May last year, has told investigators she knew she was not supposed to use the facility because her gender is listed as male on the family registry.

Pool boy online: use the onsen as much as you need but never never bring your partner in with you. Because I be the first to grab you both by the neck and proceed to toss you both out. The onsen were made separate a 100 years exactly for this reason. So we can be alone with out the harping of your partner male or female telling you, you should do it this way or your not washing yourself correctly bla bla bla. Do you understand. You want to wash with your partner use the private onsen. Or are that self centered you can not recognise this.

HBJ you are referring to a male toilet were what you state is logical but a female toilet is a complete different puppy. EG a young girl has a health issue and she is using the toilet to help overcome her health issue. This young girl would be put in a very embarrassing position when a man wearing women clothes walks in on her when she is naked from the waist down because she is trying to wash the blood from her shorts and underwear. Makes all man toilet uni and females toilet for females period. There is never a occasion a male should be allow to use a female toilet never period. And if these people say I am not a male I am truthful a women should than be able to fully understand why there is females toilets for females only. But they do because their very self centred manner and unable to distinguish or act empathical to a real physical womens circumstances.

@HBJ

Does the plumbing matter at your house? The only reasonable separation based on that, is separating between normal toilets and urinals. And there are places which do that and no one bats an eye.

The fastest solution to this issue seems to be to clearly define who is allowed to enter each restroom.

At the moment most just think in a binary way - man or woman. But it's clear that we no longer live in a binary world, and the current accepted definition may not apply to transgendered people.

This is of course a matter of one's own knowledge of the issues, and to some extent, opinion - but this is why we make rules. Clear rules make it clear what is acceptable, and not acceptable, and whether you like it or not, that becomes the way of doing things.

Penis or vagina seems sensible to me. What one is wearing, how one thinks, or which sex one is presumed to be attracted to, shouldn't matter at all. A toilet is for getting rid of ones waste, and regardless of our gender, we have specific plumbing to deal with this task. Use the toilet assigned to your current plumbing.

Open and shut case, throw the book at him.

Also, did you know, pretty much the same arguments about fear and discomfort and safe-spaces were used against people of color. You would like that, don't you? Safe-spaces for all the races.

So, this "man" should not go in women's toilet, but trans-men and lesbians are perfectly welcome I take? What if the person was a trans man, who looked like a big bearded, muscular guy? For god's sake, toilets are for answering "nature's calls", we don't talk about how disgusting it is and assaulting anyone there is literally a crime, regardless of gender or sexual identity. The whole thing about separating them is utterly pointless and wasteful (what's next, separate toilets at home?). Just imagine how ridiculous it is to judge and prosecute someone for using a toilet.

Just a question for all those weirded out:

What exactly are you doing in there? I’m usually doing number one or two and washing my hands quickly to leave swiftly soon after my business.

Additionally, the association of sexual deviation and members of minority sexual groups is an atrocity. I’m a gay man and I can walk right into onsen and bathrooms. Right?

Guess what? I’m not looking at anything but the scenery around the springs or a urinal. People are so prudish and discriminatory and it’s honestly shameful. In Montreal there already are gender neutral bathrooms. Perhaps those so scared of perversion by sexual minorities are in fact perverts themselves?

This is what the police are trying to protect against:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/teen-accused-of-sexual-assaults-in-2-virginia-high-schools/2831314/

https://nypost.com/2021/10/26/virginia-teen-found-guilty-of-sexual-assault-that-sparked-volatile-school-board-meeting/

Easiest solution was the first comment here, just make all bathrooms unisex. 

Thats an incredibly difficult solution, not to mention cripplingly expensive. Who will pay for every public toilet in Japan to be converted to unisex in these tight times - when the benefit is for just a fraction of 1% of the population?

The easiest solution is to use the toilet that corresponds with your physical gender.

If I find it all a little creepy, am I a bad person and not allowed to think that?

Easiest solution was the first comment here, just make all bathrooms unisex. There's no functional reason that bathrooms need to be separated, nobody [should be] walking around naked. Can't say I have ever seen anything that would be inappropriate in a public restroom in my life. Even if somebody needs to change, you wouldn't do that smack dab in the middle of the room anyway.

just as another perspective. I am a man, with a willy..... and I dress. always, in female attire, accoutrements, some makeup. I receive, on a daily basis, appreciation and compliments on my 'look', from many women, of all types and ages, and in all sorts of situations. but I don't therefore assume they would like to see me in their designated toilet, nor do I have any desire to use same. naturally, I use the men's, always.

interestingly (and sometimes amusingly) I get a lot of doubletakes, and on not a few occasions, I've had men turn back to the entrance to check the sign, momentarily thinking they're in the wrong place.... and twice, at onsen, I've had concerned-looking men explaining that "this is the men's changeroom" and "the women's changeroom is over there". however, I have never had anyone take umbrage in any way.

What silly Monica to place on yourself. Lqbjotshx5+ is a great Monica to have. I always see these groups standing under a rainbow banner. They also hug each other a lot. So how about just refer to theses groups as Rainbow huggers. If I was part of their group I rather be referred to as a rainbow hugger than a member of the LQBGHIR+ community plus it look silly on Tee Shirts

"expert on LGBT issues fears might lead to more prejudice and discrimination against sexual minorities."

@ isoducky

 "there is no law that dictates who can use what bathroom in a private building."

yep

Mr. expert don't be afraid, give these Japanese complete sovereignty throughout JP and let them completely multiply and don't and discriminate against them , put more laws to protect them, and protect them more with your religious institutions.

gokai is totally gay, but I don't like the idea of trans women using women's bathroom. Gender identity is different from sexual identity, and the trans woman may be straight, meaning being attracted to women. That could be dangerous.

Following that logic, allowing gay men to enter mens toilets could also be dangerous to the straight men in there.

Not a lot of detail in this story. Police are not seeking indictment which means a complaint was made by someone, likely not the owner or operator of the facility, to the police but it wasn't followed up. If the prosecution goes forward they will get a conviction on trespassing simply because the person had prior knowledge they were not to enter that area. But.....

I think this story will die here as I don't think the person accused will have to make an apology or pay a settlement due to the facility owner or operator and the accused do not want to be tied to gender issue-related litigation.

About privately owned, publically available restrooms (shopping malls/ hotels/ stations): there is no law that dictates who can use what bathroom in a private building. The labels placed at the entrance of the restrooms are designed to guild people to the facility best for them. This kind of the reason why fathers taking their daughters into the men's room to use the toilet is never an issue. However, facility owners/operators can and do have policies in place which can dictate where people are allowed to enter and operate.

We should also recognize that women should stop entering "Men designated toilets" whenever the line for the women's toilet is too long. We should start calling the cops on them. "What is good for the goose is good for the gander"

That being said, if a man has not had the surgery and has not gone through the process of being legally recognized as a woman then they have no business in a women's restroom. How will people know whether this guy is simply roleplaying or living out some fetish.

There has to be some clear set of guidelines, so both the transitioning individual and the public can feel safe. The responsibility falls on the government to layout these guidelines.

An alternative is to design all stalls to be a full self-contained restroom or a more convenient and comfortable port-a-potty design (ie. toilet, mirror, shelf, paper towels, sink, bidet). These stalls can be placed in more locations and used by anybody. It is also safer because only one person per stall, and strangers cannot enter during people's more vulnerable times unless they allow them to enter with them.

Kinjiro_Aki...

A transitioning person isn't using the bathroom for their affirmed gender for sexual gratification.

That maybe true but the point is you cannot distinguish between a "genuine" transgender person and a pervert in a dress jacking off while listening to women pee in the next cubicle.

of course, we know next to nothing about the person and/or their motivation, but, he knew that using that restroom was liable to cause 'dfficulty', so why not just use the men's-room, as he does almost always. just seems like it would be plainer sailing, just as a practicality of everyday life.

would he have been more uncomfortable being obviously a man in female attire in the men's, than being obviously a man in female attire in the ladies?

I dare say the ramifications for him will now be considerable.

The title should read....

'Outrage as biological man enters room reserved for women and girls.'

The second line should read....

'In a case an expert on woman and girl's issues fears might lead to more discrimination and erosion of thier rights to privacy.'

gokai is totally gay, but I don't like the idea of trans women using women's bathroom. Gender identity is different from sexual identity, and the trans woman may be straight, meaning being attracted to women. That could be dangerous.

I guess that peeing whilst standing upright is what gave him away.

“Gender identity is invisible…”

Look down and you will know it is not.

What you have between your legs is your biological sex. Gender is a social construct. Two completely different things.

The poor woman. I hope this case doesn't spark anymore discrimination than already exists in Japan when it comes to LGBTQIA+ matters. It must already be hell for her to have to pretend to be a man at work; she doesn't need the aggravation of a dragged out court case on top of it.

Unisex bathrooms are the ultimate answer, but they will take time and money to build. In the meantime, people suffering from gender dysphoria deserve sympathy and treatment and to be treated with respect. However, they also need to understand that social rules/norms should be respected when possible. I take issue with anyone using their medical condition as a political or social cudgel.

You can’t say you’re a transgender and get away with anything. If the trans still retains her/his male reproductive organs, s(he) shouldn’t have used the women’s restroom.

RT Women cleaning onsen has been apart of Japanese society for millennium. Only recently have onsen (the last 100 years) been separated from communal to gender only. I prefer and enjoy the gender only onsen. It a place where I can get way from my partner and meditate and reflect . This is why I am against partners using the same onsen like Rainbow huggers (homosexual partners). They should not be allow to both use the same onsen. If they prefer to use the onsen together, they can book and use the private onsen for partners or family which most onsen have. But in this case I would not say to the person in the toilet you can not be in here because of your agenda. I would just leave because I feel uncomfortable. Am I allow to feel uncomfortable ? Yes I am but, I am not a shelfish person and would not make the other person uncomfortable by saying you are not allowing here. If these people acted in this manner of considering other in the community they would earn more respect.

Be whatever gender you want to be.

And if you put in the effort to look like that gender no one will even notice when you use the toilet and it will never be an issue (unless your standing up of course).

If a male predator (almost exclusively hetero males) wants to enter a female bathroom and abuse those there, as we have seen routinely, they DO NOT NEED, HAVE NOT NEEDED, a skirt to do it. I may have limited media exposure but, so far, I have seen ONLY ONE report of a kilted male in a female bathroom preying upon anyone and that was a highly disturbed teenager in America. Perhaps those who so fear such, clearly, vanishingly rare events should review their own expectations and ask THEMSELVES from where in their own minds expectations such as these are born...and we Humans do tend to expect from the world what we see in ourselves whether consciously or not...

Why doesn't this guy just use the "multi-purpose" toilets? They are OK for both male or female bodies.

Because I suggest that this person either A) is a pervert looking for a loophole to fill a sexual desire or B) someone who wants more attention. I also have an honest question: I thought “transgender” meant one was either taking hormone therapy or had sexual reassignment surgery. Does this person in the article even qualify to be labeled “transgender”? Honest question.

Ok how can I tell Apart a transgender person or a cross dressing pervert who entry the females toilet just behind my 12 year old daughter. What would you do as a concern father or mother ? Act like it is a normal? Call the police and wait?. I know I be calling out to my daughter tell her to get out of there. I know people have a problem with their sex but they also have take into account the concerns of the community. I have no problems with transgender but in this situation this person should also be considerate for other users of the female toilet.

THIS! THIS!

Well said John!

I think they need to change the signs on the toilets from male female to simply a penis and testicles on one door and a pair of breasts and a vagina on the other. I'm serious about this.

The reason is that it becomes not an issue of your gender identification but about what your biology says about you and there is less grey area there.

all toilets unisex, and build walls from the floor to the ceiling.

It would be a safety hazard before even thing about the cost to tax payers.

What a strange discussion. Should we now also complain when women are cleaning men’s toilets, walking between all the exposed men, the same when taking temperature measurements at hot springs etc. or young fathers bring in there little girls and maybe mothers little boys into the pools, (although I of course don’t know if that also happens). We all need to go to a bathroom or toilet sometime, so don’t always make such a big issue out of that natural process, please. There isn’t really a problem if a real transgender goes into such a separated closed box in the women’s area, because that former he is now a similar she and will behave like that there.

I certainly do not accuse this man of being a "pervert".

However, to protect the safety of women and young girls using the female bathrooms, you cannot simply have men dressed up as a woman entering them. If they have transitioned, and that change is legally reflected, that is different.

Is “identifying as” a woman the same as “calling yourself” a woman? Can you have a beard and “identify as” a woman? Is the word transvestite now a gender slur? Can you “identify as” a different race? These modern terms can be confusing.

Mr KiplingToday  07:49 am JST

The women's toilets are for women. Not men who want to be women or men who dress like women in order to enter women's toilets for their own sexual gratification. The problem arises that telling the above two apart is impossible.

The world really has more important things to worry about than a few men in dresses toilet choices.

A transitioning person isn't using the bathroom for their affirmed gender for sexual gratification.

Japanese Society of Gender Identity Disorder

Disorder? Is that word really necessary?

That "committee" title in itself is discriminatory. It shows the backwards thinking and lack of awareness that this society has on this issue.

S

Ok how can I tell Apart a transgender person or a cross dressing pervert who entry the females toilet just behind my 12 year old daughter. What would you do as a concern father or mother ? Act like it is a normal? Call the police and wait?. I know I be calling out to my daughter tell her to get out of there. I know people have a problem with their sex but they also have take into account the concerns of the community. I have no problems with transgender but in this situation this person should also be considerate for other users of the female toilet.

V.M.Today  07:25 am JST

So he's a man who "dresses as a woman on weekends"? And he wants to use the ladies room? haha what a joke

Stop being obtuse, you know full well what the working culture is like in Japan. Trying to transition in many companies in the realm of Japan Inc. would be a short track to harassment and career termination.

Transgender woman referred to prosecutors for using Osaka ladies room

Crime of the century.

So he's a man who "dresses as a woman on weekends"? And he wants to use the ladies room? haha what a joke

sounds like the guy has a fettish

Throw the book at him.

The women's toilets are for women. Not men who want to be women or men who dress like women in order to enter women's toilets for their own sexual gratification. The problem arises that telling the above two apart is impossible.

The world really has more important things to worry about than a few men in dresses toilet choices.

well I don't know if this person is self-styled as "transgender", or if the writer chose the term, but what I always wonder is..... if, as some people profess, they are a transgender-woman, or trans-woman..... why the need for "trans".... seems to me it's often more about the trans label, which, whether by intent or not, seems to serve the purpose of separating someone, or identifying them as special, disinclusive, rather than inclusive. not "I am a woman", but, "I am a trans".

in any case.... as David Brent says above.... penises belong in the mens'. my view....

Social change for the petrified mindset is not an easy adaptation because for such people there can be only ONE REALITY, their own. Anyone going through gender dysphoria is hoeing a row of discomfort unimaginable to most and, for most of their blind critics, such trauma would drive those critics even deeper into egocentric psychosis. For Humans, as history very clearly shows us, user defined 'normal' is the worst disease we are afflicted with and the hypocrisy required for most Humans to live up to 'normal' is a driver of much anxiety, fear driven hysteria, and political manipulation. And speaking of 'fear' in a public restroom, what would this person face in a MEN'S [thump chest here] bathroom dressed as a woman? And in response to a comment above, doesn't "embarrassment" around the needs of a Human female seem more deranged thinking than even homophobia?

Just because he identifies himself as a woman does not make him a woman. There has been a few cases where men dress as women to gain entry to the female section of onsens. His intentions may have been harmless, but he is still a man.

i feel for her but she must have been pretty un passable if she was outed like that. Most people wouldn’t bat an eye or even really notice in passing. My best friend is trans and nobody suspects anything and people are shocked if she decides to disclose that info. Maybe she recently started transitioning?

Why doesn't this guy just use the "multi-purpose" toilets? They are OK for both male or female bodies.

Women do not only pee in the toilets. They have periods, leading to sometimes accidents, pains.

Younger girls and sometimes women are also embarrassed to change their pads during periods.

Women can also feel physically sick because of periods, pregnancy, menopause.

These are some reasons why women need their privacy and be able to sometimes wash more than their hands in THEIR toilets.

I am not mentioning here obvious safety reasons for both women and younger girls that you know will be safe in a women only space.

This thread gives some great examples: https://twitter.com/volewriter/status/1477979830935298049?t=9ZlKixgJBvnPB5QR_QH5cw&s=19

Prepare for some outrageous commets.

Male all toilets unisex, and build walls from the floor to the ceiling. Maybe more people would be tempted to wash their hands that way too.