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Turkish jet firm says employee falsified Ghosn records

34 Comments
By SUZAN FRASER and YURI KAGEYAMA

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34 Comments
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How did he get from Tokyo to Kansai airport

10 ( +10 / -0 )

Some folks are going to get into pretty serious trouble here, I hope the money was worth it!

6 ( +11 / -5 )

Ghosn did what any rational adult with the means would have done in his position. Nobody gets a fair trial in Japan, not even Japanese people.

Japan: Reform your “justice” system and join the rest of the developed world in 2020.

13 ( +37 / -24 )

Nobody gets a fair trial in Japan, not even Japanese people.

Let me expand on this statement. Judgements in Japan do not mention how the decision was reached so this opens up a biased claim, and if a confession is made this takes precedent over the law investigation. It is rarely possible to track the rationality of the judgement which is felt as biased and not fair.

22 ( +24 / -2 )

How did he get from Tokyo to Kansai airport

This is an interesting part of the saga as well. Driving from Tokyo to Kansai takes 8-12 hours so it is possible they drove about what about all the highway cameras?

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Chip StarToday  07:17 am JST

Ghosn did what any rational adult with the means would have done in his position. Nobody gets a fair trial in Japan, not even Japanese people.

Japan: Reform your “justice” system and join the rest of the developed world in 2020.

Well stated.

And it is not just their judicial system which needs to be reconsidered.

However, realistically nothing changes so long as the old order remains entrenched, aided by their collaborator/overlords.

9 ( +19 / -10 )

This is an interesting part of the saga as well. Driving from Tokyo to Kansai takes 8-12 hours so it is possible they drove about what about all the highway cameras?

I guess the police state narrative doesn't work. Japans own fault for keeping a foreigner in detention for well over 2 years. He could have easily had a trial in that time period.

6 ( +15 / -9 )

We have grand jury in America, who are appointed by judges, who prosecutor go before and present evidence against defendant, the grand jury have special investigated powers, they can issue court order, to summon witness to testify, they can accept the prosecutor case or reject, the power to try a case rest in their hands

3 ( +3 / -0 )

How did he get from Tokyo to Kansai airport

Shinkansen.

the tight surveillance he was under

It was not tight. His only concern was hiding his face to avoid that anybody recognize him and yell "karurosugoooon..." just when he tried to enter the zone where his uber-plane was waiting.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

CS, “Japans own fault for keeping a foreigner in detention for well over 2 years.”

That’s some creative math there. Ghosn was first arrested in November of 2018 and has been out on bail during much of the time since.

Invalid CSRF

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

We have grand jury in America, who are appointed by judges, who prosecutor go before and present evidence against defendant, the grand jury have special investigated powers, they can issue court order, to summon witness to testify, they can accept the prosecutor case or reject, the power to try a case rest in their hands

And this is relevant how? I've mentioned it before and I'll mention it again. Japan is a civil law country not a common law country that the majority of people here seem to immediately think is the only valid type of legal system, since that is all they are exposed too.

Let me expand on this statement. Judgements in Japan do not mention how the decision was reached so this opens up a biased claim, and if a confession is made this takes precedent over the law investigation. It is rarely possible to track the rationality of the judgement which is felt as biased and not fair.

Judgements in Japan are based on statutes and codified laws not case law (in other words what happened in previous cases). So yes, if someone make a confession it is taken as de facto evidence by the preciding judges. That being said, should Japan change their legal system to stop the automatic extension of detention? Probably.

But there are many countries that have civil law (France, Germany, Spain, most of Europe), so Ghosn should know how it works.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

just when he tried to enter the zone where his uber-plane was waiting.

Nice one, uber plane. I was thinking the same about him absconding on a fancy private jet but then read it was a cargo plane he used. Leased under a different name it would arouse less suspicion. The bail conditions allowed him to travel freely within Japan of no more than 2 nights so it would be easy enough to get to Kansai airport without being recognised. But how did he get through airport security though? That's the part that I want to know.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Lebanon won't hand him over. Ghosn is incredibly popular in the country and in the region and returning him to Japan would be political suicide.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Let me guess everyone overseas gets arrested.

Japanese border services will get promotion for good service.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Ghosn is incredibly popular in the country

Sure. Some of his compatriots are now trying to sue him for his visit to Israel a few years ago. For a Lebanese citizen, it's a crime costing 15 yrs of jail, they say.

returning him to Japan would be political suicide.

Aoun's done his political seppuku a few times, he's like a cat, he has many lives.

But how did he get through airport security though? 

You can drive to cargo zone in a Kuroneko truck (on the seat, not in a box) or in a bus for the staff. I went to do custom clearance, and to ship stuff. They check the luggage much more than the persons. But they had to get tipped on the special year end schedule.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Drive from Tokyo to Osaka can be 4 hours if light traffic.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

How did he get from Tokyo to Kansai airport

Good question! This doesn't answer that question, and it's from the NYT, but nonetheless it's interesting:

Carlos Ghosn Was Aided in Flight From Japan by Former Green Beret

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/03/business/carlos-ghosn-cameras.html

2 ( +2 / -0 )

It’s amateur hour in Tokyo. That an uber-famous foreigner could evade manned and video surveillance and border-crossing procedures seems unthinkable.

Lebanon won't hand him over. Ghosn is incredibly popular in the country and in the region and returning him to Japan would be political suicide.

But things may not be that easy. A group of lawyers on Thursday lodged a complaint with Lebanon’s judiciary charging that visits Carlis Gone made to Israel in his position as chairman of Renault and later Nissan constitute a crime under laws forbidding citizens from interacting with Lebanon’s arch-foe, which has been in a state of war with Lebanon for the past 60 years.

If found guilty, the Brazilian-born Gone, who also holds Lebanese and French nationalities, could face a prison sentence of up to 15 years in Lebanon, according to judicial officials.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Japan: Reform your “justice” system and join the rest of the developed world in 2020.

put it away already, it's a dead horse. Seriously, Ghosn fleeing like a rat is not going to achieve any reform, it will harden the justice system and embolden law makers. A majority of Japanese is also right behind it.

Japan has achieved a system with an extremely low crime rate, and an extremely low incarceration rate. Many nations including USA admire the Japanese system because it focusses on the criminal. Steve Bannon has openly praised the Japanese system as being efficient and effective.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

The folks here who kept criticizing Japan's legal system, where are you from? Your home country must have a perfectly fair system. I'm not even being sarcastic, please let me know. Here in the US, most of the time, if you're poor & can't afford a good lawyer, you're guilty. But if you're rich with a team of strong lawyers, you'll walk free. Hello OJ Simpson .... And most recently that millionaire Chinese woman who was accused of killing her ex husband in California.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

@ano The folks here who kept criticizing Japan's legal system, where are you from? .. blah blah blah

The old and tired excuse of: "Other places suck too, so it's OK in Japan" argument. That is a common mind-set in Japan, and it is immature logic. For example, throngs of people standing and waiting for the light to change at a cross-walk. One impatient person gets fed up with having to wait 30-seconds, so they cross the street while the light is still red. EVERYONE then follows that one rule-breaker across the street. See it every day here in Japan.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

In some kind of a weird way this is a win-win situation. Japan gets to keep the insane bail of $14million, doesn't have to pay the cost for his prison lodging and Ghosn gets his freedom.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Even though I disagree of escaping from Ghosn in the end we needed a wealthy influent foreign man to get under the target of the inhuman Japanese hostage system to give it a world spotlight to this issue.

Now the civilized and developed world is looking at their juridical system.

France already stated that no matter what they will never extract him.

In the end a regular Johnny or Bob would have never brought such attentions.

We all know how Japan is sensitive to it’s image “tatemae” and history teaches us that any significant changes for them came from outside.

The world will certainly listen to his upcoming conference.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

That’s some creative math there. Ghosn was first arrested in November of 2018 and has been out on bail during much of the time since.

But he would still be in detention if he didn't change lawyers and pay a ridiculous bail.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Therougou, “But he would still be in detention if he didn't change lawyers and pay a ridiculous bail.”

So? It still wouldn’t be anywhere near two years yet. And having a good lawyer usually facilitated whatever you want to do. And getting out on bail, yes, involves paying an amount of money. Whether it’s a ridiculous amount is a matter of opinion but as we’ve seen, as high as it was it still didn’t prevent him from jumping bail.

Invalid CSRF

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Doesn't matter how they try to spin this: he walked out his front door and no one stopped him, asked him what he was doing, and/or accompanied him. Authorities can't go blaming Turkey or others for his ultimate escape when it started by him walking out the door when he was supposed to be under watch.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Its amazing what "brown envelopes" under the table give you.....

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

So the guy who falsified the papers will be punished, but not Ghosn?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Smithinjapan, “Authorities can't go blaming Turkey or others for his ultimate escape when it started by him walking out the door when he was supposed to be under watch.”

Japanese officials have yet to comment but I’d be surprised if they blame Turkey. The blame lies with Ghosn who made the decision to jump bail, and with anyone who knowingly assisted him in that endeavor.

Was he supposed to be under constant watch? By whom? I don’t remember that being listed as one of the bail conditions.

Invalid CSRF

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

No doubt local police done their stupid job again....here I've only one question how fugitive Carlos went to Osaka Airport ? I think someone airport stuff also engaged with it.

I think internationally private/charter aviation rules should be changed soon...because this kind of negligences any terrorist can take any big attack to any country....its so rubbish rules.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Sorry, correction of my last comment(...*staff).

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Another update:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwI-wq0tOmo

The latest one - the pilots were threatened by the organizers of the escape to either accept the task or have their families endangered.

Considering how sleazy Ghosn is, I won't put this below him and his buddies.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

"The old and tired excuse of: "Other places suck too, so it's OK in Japan" argument. That is a common mind-set in Japan, and it is immature logic. For example, throngs of people standing and waiting for the light to change at a cross-walk. One impatient person gets fed up with having to wait 30-seconds, so they cross the street while the light is still red. EVERYONE then follows that one rule-breaker across the street. See it every day here in Japan"

Not a strong & intelligent argument you got there. But about the "red light" thing, have you been walking around? I have not been all around the world. But that "red light " thing you mentioned is everywhere. In the US, Canada, France, S.Korea, well Japan just a few places I have been to. And have you ever had a job interview ( or work) with those big multinational financial firms in NY? I don't know about other industries. But it's all about team work. You'll get an "older guy" to guide or "spy on" you. You're not supposed to work independently. At least until you're in much higher positions.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The power of bribery fits well in this profile. Everybody on the take - nobody cares who the cake.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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