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Two more U.S. servicemen arrested in separate incidents

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Need to add yet another incident in Okinawa.

http://www.stripes.com/news/backflip-bid-lands-okinawa-marine-behind-bars-1.198153

So yet another Marine is in the Okinawa Prefecture Extra Long stay motel. This was during the middle of the day and he was not even drunk!

-11 ( +11 / -22 )

This was during the middle of the day and he was not even drunk!

Time to impose day curfew?

12 ( +16 / -4 )

Time to impose day curfew?

No.

Time to go home.

What use is a military that can't control itself?

2 ( +21 / -19 )

my god, is there a reason why all these U.S. servicemen been acting up now?

or that these are really normal and the tension between Okinawa and US Military are making these "news". They're making US look bad.

7 ( +10 / -3 )

These minor misbehaviors are reported too big in Japan. Probably because they do not like U.S. Forces in Japan itself. If they don't like U.S. Forces, why does not Japan defend their country by themselves?

2 ( +22 / -20 )

"or that these are really normal and the tension between Okinawa and US Military are making these "news".

"These minor misbehaviors are reported too big in Japan. Probably because they do not like U.S. Forces in Japan itself."

I think both of you are on to something here.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Schopenhauer, you may have a point. Interesting, I clicked good in response to your comment. Nothing happened to your -1 negative rating, however. I clicked another comment and it worked just fine. Ehhh? Wa-a-a?

There seems to be a general JT bias in reporting these stories. Is this really a rash of US perpetrated incidents? Or is it a small part of regular crimes and misdemeanors that happen every day in Japan? Readers are not able to see statistics that provide a context. On previous occasions other posters have pointed out that the US military personnel commit less than 1% of the crimes in Japan.

That means that rather than understanding the problem rationally after reading the article, we are left to respond with emotion. (Which might be the point--fuel for anti-US sentiments--and seems to be underscored by the final sentence in the news report.)

But back to the present story. Something like some 23 year-old with more energy than common sense wanting to climb to a roof to do a back flip is harmless enough--but the optics are very bad. Public indecency, B&E, alleged sexual assault and violation of curfew are another matter. Anyone anywhere, not just Okinawan's should be upset.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

My source was the Stars and Stripes hardly anti-American. Would not want to be the commander of US forces Japan! Remember for every incident off base there is 10 or so on base.

-4 ( +17 / -21 )

These minor misbehaviors are reported too big in Japan.

Because rape is a 'minor' misbehavior.

Regardless of the crime committed they are guests in Japan and they should respect Japanese customs and the citizens.

20 ( +29 / -10 )

"for every incident off base there is 10 or so on base"

Really! How come we never hear about the other 10 or so on base?

2 ( +11 / -9 )

Bertie: "Time to go home. What use is a military that can't control itself?"

Same use as the SDF, who have incidents of the same sort of thing or worse but it doesn't get the same attention, save that the SDF really isn't a deterrent against Japan's potential enemies, and they could not defend Japan if depended upon. The US is here to protect your friends in Okinawa, plain and simple. These incidents are singular and not reflective of the US military as a whole.

kariharuka: "Because rape is a 'minor' misbehavior."

Not in the least (although it is much more downplayed if done by a Japanese national, especially if they were drunk and 'can't remember'), but there were no incidents of rape in these two cases so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up.

"Regardless of the crime committed they are guests in Japan and they should respect Japanese customs and the citizens"

They are there to protect Japan, and not simply guests in the sense many of you guys use it. What's more, many, MANY more Japanese commit these crimes on a daily basis -- so what 'cutoms and the citizens' are you talking about, exactly?

0 ( +15 / -15 )

If these two did the crimes, have them do the times (or sufficient punishment, anyway), but persecuting the entire US military for it is as ludicrous as banning all salary-men from izakayas because one is caught drunk driving.

10 ( +18 / -7 )

This isn't news. It's become a witch hunt. Imagine the trouble this country would be in if America just upped n left. Discuss.

4 ( +12 / -8 )

Edited for politeness:

Yes, the reporting of incidents in Okinawa are indeed going past the outrageous and into the "Really, Okinawa?" phase. Premeditated rape is one thing, and I don't think anyone here disagrees that it is both heinous and well-deserving of the maximum punishment from both countries. Drunk assault is particularly bad, even worse when it involves a child, and while not at the level of rape, it certainly deserves harsh measures all of its own.

Public drunkenness...well, now we are getting into the realm of the mundane. There seems to be a perception from one side that any and all incidents can be added to a list and used as ammunition for a particular political cause. It doesn't actually work that way. The vast majority of people do actually see past quantity. Trying to work the amount of incidents as opposed to the type of incidents is eventually going to lead to situations where people see you claiming that drunk sailors means the U.S. military should leave, that a fender-bender makes the headlines, and that someone can walk around naked in an internet cafe and only be charged with suspicion of public indecency (despite only meriting a single line in the article, and happening in Yokohama, about 1000 miles away)."

6 ( +9 / -3 )

Again? Are these guys working for Beijing?

2 ( +6 / -4 )

It certainly would not hurt if the American military were to drill into their personal that they are guests and have the responsibility to act like decent guests. But I would like to see a comparison of the Japanese Defense Force service people. Are they acting any better, or does it only matter if it is an american doing it. There is a certain amount of careless behavior of service people everywhere, it is an old problem young inexperienced young men far from home. We have many of the same problems here in the United States.

But as the Japanese now have a candidate that wants to rebuild the Japanese military, japanese might also consider if having a lot more Japanese Soldiers, Sailors and Air Force people is going to bring them the same mess, but at taxpayer expense. The same candidate wants a nuclear weapons program as well, expensive weapons that no one dares to use because even if you get all of yours off without the enemy firing one, then you still have the radiation to deal with as it comes back home. All of this for national ego. We Americans appear to be stuck with the this hugh expense an yo see how out economy is faltering. Japans economy is already in trouble, does it want to add another major expense. At least the Japanese still are able to choose if this is what they want to do. You too can be in major debt to China like the United States is. We even finace our various wars with Chinese money.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Its time the US says ”time out” – we’re done being tied to this narrative that the misconduct expectation for the 100K plus US military members and their family members in Japan is zero – that’s totally unreasonable and unsustainable. Certainly the expectation for any major or violent crime should be zero, but minor incidents are going to occur. The current situation is merely some self=perpetuating circle – any small incident turns into a major national level media event, which just further heightens the media scrutiny, which results in even more minor incidents gaining attention. I say this not as satire, but if we continue on this narrative I fully expect to see an article here in JapanToday next week where some US military affiliated person is cited for jaywalking……and their is some expectation that President Obama should apologize to PM Noda.

The US should say clearly, we will do everything we can to ensure there are zero incidents of violent crime, but even with our best efforts, some small minor infractions are going to occur. Blowing these out of proportion and exaggerating their significance is not in the best interests of either of our two governments. So lets stop the "hand-wringing", and get on with the job of jointly defending Japan as outlined in the Security Treaty.

What's more important here, some young GI who takes his shirt off in an internet cafe or the fact that China has for the last two months kept at least seven patrol boats in close vicinity of the Senkakus?

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Remember for every incident off base there is 10 or so on base.

Please provide credible sources. I am not trying to be rude but 'my guy' is not a credible source. Such an obvious bias here. Next guy will be arrested for pickin' his nose.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

The curfew is NOT working! American servicemen knows the longer spat and tensions between China and japan is their time to get loose, they shall not lose anything!

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Thing is there is a lot of Article 15's and court marshals in the US Forces. My guy said in the Iraq war zone they were common. A very common one was being drunk and sex with someone besides ones spouse. I was doing some research and it states there were like 3191 reported sexual assaults though the number is most likely 19000 since the vast majority are unreported. I found the following very interesting reading.

http://www.usfk.mil/usfk/court-martial.court.martial.results.for.september.2011.29

http://www.japanbases.com/forums/aft/7809.aspx

These are just for a single month and add in article 15 actions and crimes committed by dependents and base workers. If anything my 10 to 1 is low.

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

Not to be bias on this story, or the endorse the actions of these service members, but when Rome, do as the Romans do. At a bonenkai a few years ago in a local Izakaya, A group of Okinawan folks celebrating got a bit carried away when one of the members decided to get naked. The owner spoke to them and then apologized to the other customers, No police were called and everyone continued to celebrate.

As far as the DUI, no excuses there, bad judgement in a bad time for service members, but wasn't Okinawa known for having the highest DUI rates in Japan?

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Stop it with the attacks on the US military...when they leave, we will be sorry. Small things should not be blown out of porportion!!!! The news is just trying to stir things up and it seems to be working. Stupid little things like these two "suspect of indecent exposure, bumping into a car"...come on...that is not news!!! What a waste of my time to have read that today!!!

2 ( +8 / -5 )

Imagine the trouble this country would be in if America just upped n left

What trouble would that be, exactly? Half the clubs in Roppongi would go broke and population of Okinawa would drop?

0 ( +6 / -6 )

It's funny how it's BIG NEWS when a car driven by an American hits a car driven by a Japanese in Okinawa,yet countless accidents happen with the roles reversed yet got little or no mention. Now is this really a news worthy story?? Is okinawa not the leading prefecture when it comes to drunk driving,mostly involving OKINAWANS ? not to mention other crimes,but is there a difference when it is committed by an"American"
Couldn't they just let the police handle this,does the media report every okinawan arrested for hit and run/dwi/dui??

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Similarly, every time any member of the SDF or police is arrested, it will most likely be reported by the media. Don't think there is that much of a bias on the part of AFP or JT to cover each and every arrest of US servicemen in relation to curfew violation, while undoubtedly this is one of the hottest topics at this point in time which gets everyone's attention.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The reason they are not reported is because they are not news. Think of how big my Oklahoma or Okinawa paper would be if they reported every crime? The thing about US military is because like policemen they carry weapons. So in a sense the US forces in Japan have the same visibility as celebrities. I can frack up by the numbers in Okinawa and it would never make the news. It is not fair girls and boys but it is life.

http://www.usfk.mil/usfk/%28A%28cN5W9HEKzAEkAAAANmNhYWYyYjEtOGVlNi00MjI1LWFmYzUtYzU2ODcwOTY4YzM57BtVMvQkmrgpxO5pLKo_qxsp50w1%29S%28ertbxjesedllvx3udwy1ruyt%29%29/court-martial

-4 ( +5 / -10 )

Both of the servicemen's units on okinawa are going to be placed on lockdown indefinitely. thats what my buddies on base have told me.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

These minor misbehaviors are reported too big in Japan.

Sorry but I dont think a DUI is a minor misbehavior. I wonder why anyone would?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

for every incident off base there is 10 or so on base

You are unnecessarily stirring the pot with comments like this. I doubt you would appreciate it if someone said to you that for ever one incident that gets publicized in the Japanese media there are 10,000 or more every day that don't make it, which makes the Japanese look like what?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

We have to remember the US Military has been willing to hire almost anyone for the last couple of years. There is a good chance that these incidents are carried out by people who would get up similar situations at home and could be close to the edge of the law in their normal life.

I would guess that most of the US Military in Okinawa are as embarrassed as everyone else by these events.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

Seems a bit carried away Adam, why not tighten up liberty for the unproven lower ranks? They can make them have battle buddies or something. So lockdown means no leaving base?

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Seems a bit carried away Adam, why not tighten up liberty for the unproven lower ranks? They can make them have battle buddies or something. So lockdown means no leaving base?

You act like you think you know what or how the military works, but when you make comments like this it just shows your ignorance about how the military reacts in situations like these.

Live and learn, the military punishes the group for the actions of an individual.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yubaru not true! Look over the links I posted. My guys numbers seem right. It really is only news if somehow the offense impacts a Japanese person. Otherwise it is non news and boring.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@ Yuritani, Great comment on why crimes committed by locals do not make the news. Only high profile cases, celebrity's or japanese public servants make the headlines. But your comment on the US military carrying weapons is off its mark. It is like saying all Japanese people are dangerous because they all know Karate. The majority of military folks only touch a weapon once a year to maintain proficiency. Japanese Police carry their weapons everyday. Other than that, no US service members have access to weapons unless it is part of their job to carry it daily i.e. M.P.s or security forces.

Also, nice link to Korean forces Army court martial page. This is a great reminder that the punishment is bound to the individual and not to rest of the armed forces in the area.

What is the Japanese punishment for public indecency? Is it the same for Obasan and Ojisan urinating on the side of the road, or is it stricter in a internet cafe?

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The civilian fine for DUI is about $5000 for a first offense on Okinawa, which ought to be pretty good punishment for the daytime drunk. That plus a quick dishonorable.

The buddy system was tried and failed, incidentally, at least during another period of incidents on Okinawa in 2005. I think the problem is an attitudinal one, and self-perpetuating: "They don't like us anyway, so screw'em for not knowing that America is the best country in the world, those ignorant J....s"..

.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

lol yeah america should just pack up and leave. If they dont want us there i mean. they'll be begging for us to come back when N Korea gets that missile ready lol

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

It is true that this are a minority and does not reflect what the us forces represent in Japan as a whole. It affects our image here and create this situations of dislike towards the American military,if you commit a crime then you should be punished severely and accordingly. But don't blame it to everyone or say we aren't needed or we are bad. Cause there have been cases of Japanese guys assaulting and molesting us service members (females to make it clear) but I bet that they don't publish that here. Let's not be harsh enough that we become blind by rage, and look at the big picture and let's us judge with justice. Thank you.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

These incidents are probably minor crimes in America but US servicemen's recent crimes are a big issue in Japan because Okinawa, Futenma base, Osprey training, and because there is Japan-US Status of Forces Agreement as Japanese police can't arrest all those who committed crimes outside the base. Okinawans know many escaped from Japan in the past before arrested.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

True most US troops do not carry arms at least not in a war zone. My guy was so happy to get rid of his firearm after his deployment. It went everywhere with him except in the shower. He felt bad for the kids carrying M249 SAWS, he had a 9mm automatic. Anyhow people expect more of the troops.

Still looking for the US forces Japan. About the side of the road it is outside, how would you like someone urinating inside your store on the carpet?

My guy just confirmed group punishment. I told him that is not fair! He said that is how they do things.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

@yuri Your guy sounds like a douche,maybe he has lost his ability to think independently! But group,better yet mass punishment is a waste because if someone wants to screw up they will,if something is going to happen it will happen,some people just don't care what they do or simply make poor decisions. so punishing everyone IMO only breeds resentment and might even create more serious problems within! if mass punishment worked there would be NO MASS PUNISHMENT just like prison,if prison worked there would be no need to keep building more of them.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Military only has to report cases of rape, murder, narcotic violations and kidnapping to the local authorities. Anything else isn't advertised so you won't hear of it if it happened on base. I don't think JT is bashing US service men,they are just reporting the news.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Otherwise it is non news and boring.

You are quite wrong here, seeing as how you are only a tourist you may not realize it but the press here does not publish a 1/10 of the crimes committed in Okinawa, if that.

It isnt because it boring or non-news, when ever is a violent crime non-news, it's because they don't want to inform the population, they want to keep the population in the dark, they want to control what people see and hear.

If they started airing stories on the nightly news about crime in Okinawa there would be no time left for anything else, it would take the ENTIRE time slot.

What you don't know, wont hurt you.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The civilian fine for DUI is about $5000 for a first offense on Okinawa, which ought to be pretty good punishment for the daytime drunk. That plus a quick dishonorable.

DWI is higher, and if the person can not afford to pay the fine they go to jail and work it off. Typically up to 6 months for a DUI and up to about 1 year for a DWI.

Daytime drunk driving? Pretty good punishment? Where does the article say it was during the daytime that he got arrested?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Police in Yokohama arrested 23-year-old U.S. sailor Oscar Hayes Wiygul III on suspicion of public indecency after he allegedly walked around naked in an Internet cafe.

According to FNN News he stood on a desk in one of the private rooms and urinated over the wall onto another customer.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Richard my guy does not agree with it at all. He is old school military and would rather discipline the soldier not unit. He is so happy to have nothing to do with them! He says the US military has not changed for the better. He went through training in 1979.

Having said everything the numbers come up to less than .1 percent of the troops. Lets say you have 50 major crimes a year by US forces Japan out of 50,000. That leaves 99.9 plus percent good troops but the press has to sell papers and air time. It is the same everywhere the press does the stories that sell. Just think how much revenue these stories generate.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I think that this kind of minor crimes or misbehaviors would be ever going on as long as US servicemen are there. To reduce these things SDF would have to take little by little military roles from the US for years, but could not for a short time.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yeah, back to the Phils. Great idea! A longtime resident of Manila told me that it's fine to pee up against a wall there but you'd damn well better cover your mouth when you use a toothpick. I hope our troops can remember that!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Yuri,I misinterpreted your post,for that i apologize. I thought you meant supported it for some reason or another. I understand what you mean now,and agree with him about the military not changing for the better. The press seems to put incidents involving a few "bad apples" under a microscope with fuels anger and resentment of a small percentage of japanese people who just plain dislike "outsiders".

1 ( +1 / -0 )

There is one basic law in human nature: the more you try to control and discipline someone who is not willing to cooperate, the more trouble he is going to make. I guess the curfew was a bad idea. Even more so with patrols. More and more accidents like that are going to happen, and more and more angry Okinawans will protest against the bases. It's inevitable. It's human nature.

What should the army do? In my view, either completely leave from Okinawa (something that it is not a realistic option for the time being) or reduce the troops and transfer them somewhere else. The problem is more or less isolated on Okinawa, not that many Japanese in the rest of the country are complaining about the U.S. bases. Keep in mind that there is not Anti-American sentiment in Japan, contrary to other countries of Asia. It will be a pity if some very few soldiers create one.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

He is old school military and would rather discipline the soldier not unit.

Well I guess he wasnt a Marine. BTW he isn't "old" school, not by any stretch of the imagination. Old only in age maybe.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@yubaru what difference does branch of service make ? Are you one of those marines who seriously believes that the 90 should suffer for the 10 percent ?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Yubaru my guy is not now or has ever been a Marine!

Richard if we use just off base numbers it is more like .01 percent. The rape case is the real problem. So if we only include rape, murder etc it was one this year right? Two rotten reservists and they were not even assigned to Japan. The math is .00004 percent of the US Forces.

There will never be zero US military crime and the cure is to really **** on the offenders. Japanese jail time followed by military jail time. Am referring to the 2 reservists accused of rape if found guilty. That is the cure and with the knowledge they will get the Big Chicken Dinner which will follow them the rest of their lives.

Oh my guy will add Yuriko you are frustrating! One minute you say one thing and the next the opposite! I say it is from my time in the SDF my position was always that of the correct one.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

@yubaru what difference does branch of service make ? Are you one of those marines who seriously believes that the 90 should suffer for the 10 percent ?

I could discuss this from both sides of the coin, and for right now and playing devils advocate here; yes they should and you want to know why?

The military on Okinawa has been pushing a buddy system, not going out into town on your own, being in groups, looking out for one another, taking care of your own. All of these incidents involving Marines, were totally preventable, or could possibly have been prevented if these guys had a friend, or buddy along, to look after each other.

The Navy dudes and the rape, no that wouldnt have worked, they both screwed up. The DUI? Who was with him when he was drinking? The breaking and entering and assault? Again where was his partner? Oh yeah he was AF. The LT, he was a Marine, he should have had someone with him if he was out drinking that long.

So yes, make them all consider their actions, make them all think about their responsibilities to their brothers and sisters in arms. The military functions as a group of individuals working together as a team. There was no "team" effort. Punishing the group serves a purpose.

Now I could just as easily talk against it, but for now, until the military folks are able to at least not make these incidents a seemingly daily thing, yes they all should be punished as a group.

Things will calm down eventually, but they wont if people keep acting out and doing stupid crap like these recent incidents prove.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Smithinjapan,

The SDF, who have incidents of the same sort of thing or worse

Do you know this, or is it just a product of your fertile imagination?

Personally, I would doubt it. In my experience they have far better discipline.

They also don't gang rape 12 year olds.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

YuriOtani: " A very common one was being drunk and sex with someone besides ones spouse."

Sexual assault and rape are crimes, adultery is not. I know in the past (the severed penis issue) you declared adultery 'physical abuse' (only directed towards men, of course), but it is not a crime.

"Having said everything the numbers come up to less than .1 percent of the troops. Lets say you have 50 major crimes a year by US forces Japan out of 50,000. That leaves 99.9 plus percent good troops but the press has to sell papers and air time. It is the same everywhere the press does the stories that sell. Just think how much revenue these stories generate."

For a change I agree with you! Well said. One thing to add, though; it's not only to sell papers, but for politicians to pander to the public and get points. The more they villify the US presence (in Okinawa in particular) the more likely they are to be re-elected. If a politician in Okinawa said, "We should not be angry at the US military as a whole for the acts as a few, nor should we ask them to leave as a result" it would be political suicide.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Richard BHard-san,

You ask:

It's funny how it's BIG NEWS when a car driven by an American hits a car driven by a Japanese in Okinawa,yet countless accidents happen with the roles reversed yet got little or no mention.

And if that is all there was too it, it would be difficult to understand. But there is a WHOLE lot more. Okinawans were placed in concentration camps after WWII, people were forced out of their houses and whole villages bulldozed flat so that the Americans could built Kadena, Futenma, etc.

If you listen to Okinawans talk about the time of US occupation, before 1972, rapes and violence were an everyday occurrence.

And in present time, the US bases occupy 20% of a small island, land which the Okinawans want for peaceful, non-military use.

Okinawans are sick of the continued occupation by the US military.

They have had enough.

That's why you see this apparent bias in news reporting.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Sexual assault and rape are crimes, adultery is not.

Adultery is a crime in the military.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

They have a right to their own country.

No they don't. Okinawa would be worse off than anyone could imagine if it tried to become independent.

They have a right to be heard by the Tokyo government.

Yes they do. However they also have a responsibilities as well as being a part of Japan. It is not a one way street.

They have been ignored and taken advantage of for too long.

It all depends upon whose point of view and what subject you are talking about. In comparison to even 20 or 30 years ago the military foot print here has decreased dramatically.

Think of this too; what does Okinawa bring to the table as being a part of Japan?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

smithinjapan

Sexual assault and rape are crimes, adultery is not. For civilians = correct. For military = Incorrect.

UCMJ Article 134

(1) That the accused wrongfully had sexual intercourse with a certain person; (2) That, at the time, the accused or the other person was married to someone else; and (3) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.

Maximum punishment: Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Think of this too; what does Okinawa bring to the table as being a part of Japan?

Uh, you do realize that the fact that 75% of the US bases are in Okinawa?

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Well, it seems to be true that this idiot stripped naked and urinated on someone in the next cubicle in an internet cafe:

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2012/11/195581.html

I must say the recent events of US servicemen seem particularly off the wall.

What's going on?

Was it always like this but it didn't get reported until recently?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

What's going on? Was it always like this but it didn't get reported until recently?

It was worse back in the day. It's light years better and in the bigger scheme of things it really is mild in comparison.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Was it always like this but it didn't get reported until recently? or that these are really normal

It's likely to be the usual (not normal) situation. It's what American losers do all the time in their country or wherever they go. Recruiting standards for army are really low. I actually find they do a great job at keeping most of these wild youth in the tracks while they are stationed abroad. 5 or 6 going bonkers in a month, for that population, it's extremely few. Go to some US ghetto town , the cops pick up 12 to 50 on a weekday night.

Think of this too; what does Okinawa bring to the table as being a part of Japan?

They have never asked to be a part of Japan. Neither did any other region, of course. But Okinawa has been selected by Tokyo and Washington to become the field of the hugest slaughter ever, then serve as the biggest US army base in Asia (anywhere ?). When did they accept any of that ? Admit it's a lot of weight for being Japanese.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

'or that these are really normal and the tension between Okinawa and US Military are making these "news".

"These offences are reported too big in Japan. Probably because they do not like U.S. Forces in Japan itself."

I think both of you are on to something here.'

Not condoning the service mans actions but these crimes have always happened and is not news worthy just another Japanese put down. Man arrested for walking naked - big deal.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

When an English teacher gets drunk and does something stupid, we don't get a lockdown on all English teachers,

That kind of happened. But that's not the same situation at all. Japan grants individual visas to English teachers (even JET) and the individuals get submitted to Japanese law and justice. Each guy is responsible for himself, that he is foreigner or Japanese makes no difference. The SOFA status of US servicemen places them in the situation of diplomats or old style colons.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

They have never asked to be a part of Japan. Neither did any other region, of course. But Okinawa has been selected by Tokyo and Washington to become the field of the hugest slaughter ever, then serve as the biggest US army base in Asia (anywhere ?). When did they accept any of that ? Admit it's a lot of weight for being Japanese.

Cripes what era are you living in? It's been over 150 years since Okinawa FINALLY and OFFICIALLY became a part of Japan.

Okinawa HAS BEEN SELECTED? Was selected nearly 70 years ago.

No I wont admit any of it. Japan got a great deal after WWII in comparison. I would rather the Japanese be speaking Japanese than Chinese or Russian.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Supposedly, the guy at the Internet cafe actually urinated in the hallway of the cafe as well.

Silly Americans, only the locals can urinate where ever they want.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Seems a bit carried away Adam, why not tighten up liberty for the unproven lower ranks? They can make them have battle buddies or something. So lockdown means no leaving base?

This is faulty logic. You can't always just punish the lower ranks, especially when the higher ranks are messing up as well. The AF did that with their liberty system back when the established it in 05. E-5got caught off base molesting a junior high school girl, they gave a curfew to everyone who was E-4 and below. That doesn't make one bit of sense! The 08 rape case the resulted in the lockdown? Yep, guy was an E-6 Marine but I bet E-6 Marines don't normally have a curfew. The last Marine that broke into that house was an officer, once again, I bet officers don't have curfews (under normal circumstances).

Bottom line, the military "group punishment" mentality is flawed. Even more so when it targets rank and incidents are being committed by multiple ranks. Guilty by association I guess.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Because rape is a 'minor' misbehavior.

Alleged rape, hasn't been convicted yet. Not condoning rape nor saying she wasn't raped (no one knows yet) of course but it wouldn't surprise me if they were a trick gone bad (not paying?) and now she's trying to get even. The 2008 lockdown happened because of an alleged rape that turned out to not be a rape at all. Was still a bad incident, but blown way out of proportion, like always.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

go ahead and kick the US out...you'll just pay more to get them back later

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

go ahead and kick the US out...you'll just pay more to get them back later

why?

seems to me, the Okinawans have been paying the price for the last sixty years

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Back on topic please.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

these men are TRASH

0 ( +5 / -5 )

@Martyman W*hat is the Japanese punishment for public indecency? Is it the same for Obasan and Ojisan urinating on the side of the road, or is it stricter in a internet cafe?** Very true, I see it all the time in Nagoya, really disgusting as it is the same place you actually stand to get 'in' the taxis. I didnt know that being naked is regarded as a ''Crime'' or allegedly hitting a car. As far as being drunk, I again still cant see any proof except for rumors. Being naked also, were there any video footage? I doubt it, so at the end it is all superficial and overreactions of the public. Get over it people.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

I doubt it, so at the end it is all superficial and overreactions of the public. Get over it people.

Urinating on another person is superficial and an overreaction? Wow, you must like things kinky.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

I see it all the time in Nagoya, really disgusting as it is the same place you actually stand to get 'in' the taxis.

You see what all the time in Nagoya?

Ojisans and obasans urinating on the guy in the next cubicle in internet cafes?

I think not.

In the street maybe, but IN INTERNET CAFES, ON PEOPLE - that is seriously bent!

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

TheDevilsAssistant,

the Okinawans have been paying the price for the last sixty years

Yes.

In blood.

Time someone acknowledged this.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Stephen Jez,

Bottom line, the military "group punishment" mentality is flawed.

So, what would you have?

A democratic military?

"Now, all those who think we should engage the enemy, raise your right hands!"

That would be ridiculous.

Any serviceman who doesn't like that has chosen the wrong profession.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

really disgusting as it is the same place you actually stand to get 'in' the taxis.

uh-huh? Disgusting isn't it? Now imagine it on you, not under your shoes...horrific isn't it?

2 ( +3 / -1 )

//suspicion of public indecency after he allegedly walked around naked in an Internet cafe.

I'm more interested in the "suspicion" part...it's not something you can fake. Unless he was wearing a false body.

//A democratic military?

To be honest the military model is weird, not being either a business or a political model. CEO's seem to go on a merry-go-round but when was the last time you heard about an army recruiting a general from outside their own army? People jump up and down screaming when their legal rights are threatened but it's fine for martial law apply to soldiers when they aren't even on a battlefield?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

That Oscar guy... what else would you expect from a guy that has a tattoo of a beer label.

I have a feeling he will not be around Japan much longer after he gets released from police custody.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

After this weeks latest incidents its becoming harder and harder to make excuses for what is going on lately. I would say that these latest few idiots are the most selfish of the bunch not giving a damn about the repercussions of their actions may have on the big picture. The commanders will have no alternative but to take much more drastic measures like completely locking down facilities and the military members have no one to blame but themselves for not policing their own. I am always in support of the military but seriously control your members. I would also like to point out that by having a curfew in the first place they may have shot themselves in the foot. Things that normally would be minor incidents have now blown up into national news stories because of the failures of their own policies showing its ugly face. I have also heard that there is a 4 man liberty buddy program in place in Okinawa now, I would have to ask where that drunk drivers buddies were at?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

unequivocallyobservingjapan. lets not go there with the comparisons and the military protecting Japan bit. It has nothing to do with stats comparing the locals with the military, nor the crime ratios between the two based on population. If you carry on about protecting Okinawa, is raping a woman protecting her? Is the raping of a woman and the punching of a teenager some sort of sacrifice that the Okinawans must offer the military for the protection? why must people down play this crime issue? It amazes me that people cannot think out of thier box and put themselves in the shoes of the Okinawans.

Yes, the Okinawans understand the good that the military does. The beach cleans, the orphan visits, the Special Olympics, the volunteering, etc. However, the same Okinawans that appreciate these kind services provided by the military are the same people that protest these crimes. The same stupid crimes that come with bases. The same stupid crimes and empty apologies for the last sixty years.

Maybe you dont here about much news of crimes from around bases in mainland Japan. Maybe its because the base near a city doesn't take up 20% of thier prefecture. Maybe its because half the military in all of Japan isn't stationed at those bases in mainland Japan. Maybe because the military population is so small at any given base on mainland Japan that the Japanese population around those bases can still turn thier cheek to those stupid crimes that are committed by the military there.

All the Okinawans want is for people that do not understand thier anger is to step back and put themselves in thier shoes. For the most part, its not about YANKEE GO HOME! Its about wanting to be treated with respect and dignity. Its about being heard by both governments. Its about fairness and understanding.

Is it that hard to see things from the Okinawan prospective?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

I want to say first that I am not in the military. I just got home from the Yokosuka area with my son and was approached by shore patrol. Before stopping me though, one of the Sailors actually said "he is married." then they walked off. I do have the appearance of a young servicemember so it goes to show how strictly this curfew is enforced.

Also if politely asked, I would of shown them my id, but when rudely approached, I would just say hell no.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

TheDevilsAssistant,

Is it that hard to see things from the Okinawan perspective?

No, it isn't.

If you have the courage to admit that you might not know all there is to know about it.

Nothing clogs up vision like thinking you know all about it.

Most people, including myself before I came here just don't know what Okinawans have had to put up with over the last hundred years or so. All you have to do is to listen to them. Or have a good look around the internet. You may find that the information you were given has rather large gaps in it and even - heavens above - some untruths!

I'm glad there are a few like you who do see things from an Okinawan perspective, and who are not shy about saying it.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Just removed the roots of all this problems with US Military Servicemen. Get rid of all US Military Bases in Japan. JGovt can even save money from helping USA in maintaining those US military bases. Problem solved.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Mr.BertieWooster...Sir, ever since my line of work has taken me to that beautiful island time to time, I have fell in love with the island and the people there. I speak limited Japanese but have taught myself how to speak the local Okinawan dialect fluently, albiet its in the very proper format.

I also have many friends there that treat me like family. Ive also done much studying about the history of Okinawa, especially on issues pertaining to the military occupation of the island. I can see both sides of the current argument, however, if anyone can look at the overall picture, you can't help but feel for these nice people. As I stated previously, the Okinawans are an extremely peaceful, patient and understanding people. And like any parent knows, no matter how much you love your children, there comes a time when the parents patience will wear thin. I hope that my Okinawan friends find the strength to remain peaceful. But at the current rate, I can foresee protests escalating to uncontrollable levels if the military does not start showing the respect and dignity the Okinawans deserve.

Thank you for your kind words also

0 ( +2 / -2 )

bajhista65-san,

Just remove the roots of all this problems with US Military Servicemen. Get rid of all US Military Bases in Japan. JGovt can even save money from helping USA in maintaining those US military bases. Problem solved.

You're right. That is the solution. It would save Japan 8.6 billion dollars a year!

In fact, I don't see how Japan can continue to pay this, so it's going to happen naturally.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Japan just cant afford defending herself! And neither the natuarl havocs of state .emergency

2 ( +2 / -0 )

As I see it, the only solution to the continued problems inherent in hosting such huge numbers of foreign (US) servicemen is to relocate the bases.

Of course, there are only a few bad eggs and the majority do not commit acts of violence, yet, except for a very few, they rarely go more than a few kilometres out of a base, do not mix with Okinawans and keep themselves to themselves. And a large number of them that I have talked with hate it here and can't wait to leave. This is probably one of the sources of frustration that leads them to commit antisocial acts.

US bases should be on US territory. Guam is close. Why not actually move them there as has been promised AND paid for by the Japanese government?

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Yes, the Okinawans understand the good that the military does. The beach cleans, the orphan visits, the Special Olympics, the volunteering, etc. However, the same Okinawans that appreciate these kind services provided by the military are the same people that protest these crimes. The same stupid crimes that come with bases. The same stupid crimes and empty apologies for the last sixty years.

Actually no they don't know, the press never publishes anything about it and few people outside of those directly in contact with these events or the people involved ever hear about it. Sad but true.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

US bases should be on US territory. Guam is close. Why not actually move them there as has been promised AND paid for by the Japanese government?

No it hasn't been paid for yet, and may never occur anyway as Guam does not have the infrastructure to support them and many people on Guam don't want the bases either.

Futenma should move to either Kadena or Henoko, it's that simple.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

TheDevilsAssistant,

Is it that hard to see things from the Okinawan perspective?

No, it isn't.

If you have the courage to admit that you might not know all there is to know about it.

Nothing clogs up vision like thinking you know all about it.

So by the above statement you are contradicting yourself. You make some very valid points at times but you tend to use a lot of blanket statements as well.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The military does the beach clean ups and yearly orpahage visits as part of a PR event, they've been doing it for years and it is an organized thing for the commander to "fill in the blocks" for his promotion. Nothing more, nothing less. Bernie seems to see things exactly how they are on Okinawa, all his posts make the most sense.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

whats contradicting?

If you cant see and understand why the Okinawans are angry...well then maybe you haven't studied the underlying issues that have angered them. Its clear as day to me.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Stay on topic please.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I fully understand the Okinawans plight and agree for the most part. I was refering to the usual all knowing statements made in previous posts and then saying that you might not know everything.

"Nothing clogs up vision like thinking you know all about it" Amen to that. Besides I will debate with a qualified Okinawan any day of the week.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Who is qualified Okinawa? One of the 1% of Okinawan adults that work on base and is paid well by the GOJ?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Pro base candidates don't exist.

This is true. However, they don't vote purely based upon base/anti-base issues they vote, typically, based upon relationships and not issues. Particularly in local, city, town, or village elections.

But, explain why then the major union representing workers on the bases is anti-base as well, BUT want to keep their jobs too. Illogical you might say, but then THIS IS Okinawa.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Futenma should move to either Kadena or Henoko, it's that simple.

But, Yubaru-san, neither Kadena nor Henoko are suitable.

As you probably know, these places are in Okinawa.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Why, thank you, Realdoll-san,

Bertie seems to see things exactly how they are on Okinawa, all his posts make the most sense.

I wish that more Okinawans had enough English to post here.

That would be very, very interesting.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Yubaru-san,

In regard to relocating US troops to Guam as a solution to the continuing problem of violent acts committed against local Japanese people, you write:

No it hasn't been paid for yet, and may never occur anyway as Guam does not have the infrastructure to support them and many people on Guam don't want the bases either.

Money has been paid for this by Japan, but, in August 2010, the government of Guam reneged on a promise to repay approximately $435 million in credit advanced by the Japan Bank for International Cooperation for infrastructure development for the proposed transfer of US Marines from Okinawa to Guam. ("US says it can't repay Japan loan to build infrastructures in Guam." Associated Press, August 27 2010.)

Also, I wonder why the US government listens to the opinions of Guam residents when they say they don't want the US troops either and ignore the opinions of the Okinawans.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

But, Yubaru-san, neither Kadena nor Henoko are suitable. As you probably know, these places are in Okinawa

As a Brit outsider here I can understand your desire to want to protect and assist the Okinawan people. There is a bigger issue here that you continue to refuse to acknowledge and after this post I will refrain from replying to anything you write, no matter how outrageous you continue to be..........understand the politics better and understand who and how the security agreement between Japan and the US was written and what responsibilities Japan has with the agreement. Henoko or Kadena are PERFECTLY suitable per the current security agreement. The US has show patience, Japan is acting foolishly.

Also, I wonder why the US government listens to the opinions of Guam residents when they say they don't want the US troops either and ignore the opinions of the Okinawans.

First off your previous post implied that the Japanese gov has PAID for it, it hasn't. Further more to educate you a little bit here, who actually "owns" Guam?

Next Japan and the US have a security agreement, and by that agreement the Japanese gov are required, per the agreement to provide replacement facilities for ones that are returned to Japanese control.

If the Japanese gov doesnt like the current agreement then renegotiate another one. BUT until then keep their end of the bargain.

Sovereign countries dont renege on agreements just because one state, or in this case prefecture, doesnt like a part of it. Japan is responsible for negotiating it with the US not Okinawa. Live and learn.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

0 ( +0 / -0 )

yubaru, Ill give you Kadena, but Henoko is not a suitable location for a base. The current bases already take up prime locations on Okinawa. To destroy natural beauty of Okinawa to build a replacement base is absurd.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

TheDevilsAssistant,

To destroy natural beauty of Okinawa to build a replacement base is absurd.

What you say is perfectly true, but likely to fall on deaf ears.

There are people who don't appreciate beauty.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

TheDevilsAssistant,

To destroy natural beauty of Okinawa to build a replacement base is absurd.

What you say is perfectly true, but likely to fall on deaf ears.

There are people who don't appreciate beauty.

Do you imagine that someone who urinates on a person in the next cubicle in an internet cafe has any appreciation of beauty?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Bertie: "Do you imagine that someone who urinates on a person in the next cubicle in an internet cafe has any appreciation of beauty?"

No more than I imagine Japan urinating on things they've agreed on is beautiful. Instead, you're suggesting they defecate on contracts and agreements made, so your buddies in Okinawa can continue to make money of American ingenuity and know-how, without their presence, and then turn around and demand defense.

Here's an idea -- if you don't want the 'nature of Okinawa' destroyed (like all the cemented nature of the rest of Japan!) then keep the US bases where they are and don't build new ones.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

smithinjapan,

keep the US bases where they are and don't build new ones

So you're suggesting that they stop work on the new Henoko base?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Bertie: If it will stop Okinawan whiners from whining, yes. But we both know they won't -- they are misdirecting their anger, and that will never change despite the fact that the US presence there is literally saving their lives.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

the US presence there is literally saving their lives.

whos lives?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

most people on Okinawa have Chinese in their family tree.

Again Yuri wrong! SOME or a FEW families have Chinese in their tree, odds are yours doesnt either. The only Okinawan's with Chinese on their tree typically came from Kume Village, now a part of Naha. In that village there were Chinese scholars that lived in Ryukyu teaching the Chinese classics etc etc etc. In that area and MAYBE some in Itoman, but other than that the MAJORITY of Okinawan's would not have ever even come into contact with a Chinese person, except in those areas, at court, or if they were a part of a diplomatic or trading mission to China.

These are facts from Ryukyu history.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I give up. America obviously can't keep their dogs on leaches so just end the military agreement with them and work on expecting Japan's military.

-5 ( +1 / -5 )

Get rid of American invaders. Plain and simple. Besides, this is not a military but rather an undisciplined herd. They even spit on their own curfew.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

smithinjapan, misdirected anger? Who should they be angry with? The Brits---for occupying 20% of their best land on Okinawa with British military bases and committing drunken acts of crime here and there continuously for 67 years? There are two groups to be angry at, the Americans and the Japanese and the Americans don't need the Marines in Okinawa, they know this and are planning to move them, but not fast enough.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

To destroy natural beauty of Okinawa to build a replacement base is absurd.

Actually, the bases tend to be quite green. The Okinawans are the ones who go concrete happy with the land they develop. They wanted to build a new highway though Okinawan Rail habitat up north a few years ago. Another road though the mountains that next to no one will use. Then there are the dugong, yep the locals killed that off.

They're also horrible when it come to containing red soil run off from off base construction sites. But, building strawmen like "Oh the new base will destroy the beauty of Okinawa" is what makes headlines and gets people on the anti-base bandwagon.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

All readers back on topic please. From here on, posts that do not focus on the crimes referred to in the story will be removed.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

As of this morning the liberty policy has changed. The times are still the the same put consumption of alcohol is banned between 2200 and 0800. Now they cannot even be outside of their residence on base after 2300 as well.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Typical! Always reporting the negative, no matter how trivial the crime. Really, a drunk driver, who didn't hurt, or kill anyone? If it were a Jpanese drunk driver in the same situation it wouldn't even be considered news. I bet if you check with the local police stations, you will find a lot of cases of Japanese drivers who were arrested for the same thing that night, yet, you don't hear about it. How about the service members who stopped a Japanese man from committing a crime against a Japanese woman? Bet you guys never heard about that. It happened earlier this year. The Japanese police gave the service members awards (non-monotary) for their actions. My point is, again, the slightest crime committed by a foreighner in Japan is blown up & put under a spotlight, whereas theses same type of crimes are committed by Japanese every day, yet, it they are not blown up like these crimes.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

in Other news, "Obaachan complained that two foreigners that maybe military or with military family , passed by her house and look at her very differently than normal japanese people , the lady next door , saw this happens and adding " while they were walking , they were laughing , maybe at us or planning to do something bad in the future to japanese " I was in my room on the second floor when this happened "

Cha cha News confirmed the location and reported it, from anywhere street Japan,

more news at 8!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

@YuriOtani: "Remember for every incident off base there is 10 or so on base."

Your comment is blatantly misleading. I don't know what base(s) you have been associated with, but none of the bases I have knowledge of have that many incidences on base, or off base. Maybe 10, both on base & of base combined. Most are alcohol related & involved senior ranking people as well as junior ranking people. I think the reason they are alcohol related because of the stress put upon the service memebers. So they drink to relieve stress. Granted, there are a few "bad apples," but their are a few "bad Japanese apples," as well.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

realdoll: "smithinjapan, misdirected anger?"

Yes, that's correct. Misdirected anger. And no, looking at the Brits or other things you mention would only be further misdirection. The bottom line is people are angry, and when you're angry you look for something to vent it out on. They have every right to be upset about people who cause incidents, but to then declare the entire US military presence in Japan as unnecessary is just what I said -- misdirected anger. People who are dissatisfied with their lives will go after any and all targets, and that's what's happening with the US military in Okinawa. If and when they US military left the same Okinawans would be whining about being left without defense, blaming A, B, or C, but never taking a second to think that it was their own fault.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

@Mark Elrod "So they drink to relieve stress."

So, you have the cheek to justify behaviour of your "servicemen"? :-)) They drink to relieve stress, then they tresspass into homes of locals, abuse Okinawans and rape them? You are happy to be deployed in relative polite and quiet Okinawa. Somewhere in ME country your bases would be burned to ashes.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

So they drink to relieve stress.

They're stationed in spacious quarters on a beautiful semi-tropical island that is part of a peaceful country, nothing but peacetime training missions to occupy their time, and they have stress?? So what happens to these delicate little flowers when they get sent to Iraq or Afghanistan or some other really stressful place? They explode spontaneously?

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

So what happens to these delicate little flowers when they get sent to Iraq or Afghanistan or some other really stressful place? They explode spontaneously?

Well the suicide rate is pretty high. Thank you for asking.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@cleo: Stationed in spacious quarters? Ha, you've got to be kidding, right? Only officers have "spacious quarters." The junior enlisted live in a room with two or three room mates, sleep in single beds, some are "bunk beds." junior Sailors stationed aboard ships sleep in a rack about the size of a coffin stacked three-high, on used mattresses that are about 2.5 inches thick. They have dirty laundry hanging at the foot of their rack. The food served on the ships is mass produced & quite bland. If they are lucky enough to have a barracks room, read the above comment about barracks rooms. Officers & chiefs on ships have 4" thick mattresses & eat better food. junior Sailors have to deal with the stress put upon them by senior leadership, some of whom are not good leaders, who don't know how to treat their subordinates with respect & don't lead by example.

They have no freedom of speech, they have tons of restrictions put upon them.

For service members in Okinawa, yes, they are in a beautiful environment, but what goes happens on base, behind closed doors, you would have to be there to understand.

Trust me, I used to be in the Navy & I was stressed out & angry all the time. However, I didn't turn to alcohol to drown my problems. There are a lot of service members who deal with stress on a daily basis. Marines who have been in a war zone have it even worse, because they are dealing with internal conflicts that I would not ever want to deal with.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Two more U.S. servicemen arrested in separate incidents

Thank you for your services USA

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Only officers have "spacious quarters."

There must be lots of officers, then. I remember fuming as we had to take a lonnng detour round yet another base, going through C, D and E to get from A to B, and from a section of raised ground we could clearly see a vast expanse of beautiful green lawn with lots of fine-looking two-storey houses with gardens and BBQs.

But really, having a soft place to sleep and food to eat is stressful? Some of their superiors are (gasp) not good leaders? How would the sweet darlings survive in the big wide world, where they'd be expected to find their own accommodation, buy and cook their own food and deal with some of the hard cases in corporate leadership positions?

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

There must be lots of officers, then. I remember fuming as we had to take a lonnng detour round yet another base, going through C, D and E to get from A to B, and from a section of raised ground we could clearly see a vast expanse of beautiful green lawn with lots of fine-looking two-storey houses with gardens and BBQs.

Basing your opinion of living conditions for all US military personnel one the fact that you once saw some nice houses at a base is ridiculous.

But really, having a soft place to sleep and food to eat is stressful? Some of their superiors are (gasp) not good leaders? How would the sweet darlings survive in the big wide world, where they'd be expected to find their own accommodation, buy and cook their own food and deal with some of the hard cases in corporate leadership positions?

My guess is that your first time finding your own accommodation was when you went to uni in the UK, probably during the time that it was all free, and therefore at the expense of the tax-payer. Am I wrong? I wonder how many people serving in the US military would find that harder..

2 ( +3 / -1 )

My guess is that your first time finding your own accommodation was when you went to uni in the UK, probably during the time that it was all free, and therefore at the expense of the tax-payer. Am I wrong?

Spot on. Did a lot of drinking, too. Never hit anyone, never caused damage to property, never trespassed and never raped anyone, though. Even though the exams back then were tough and very stressful.

I'm not sure what your point is. Mark Elrod is telling us the military get drunk out of their minds and do stupid, criminal things because they're 'stressed'. I'm saying that a bit of stress is no reason for being criminally stupid.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

@cleo

Spot on. Did a lot of drinking, too. Never hit anyone, never caused damage to property, never trespassed and never raped anyone, though. Even though the exams back then were tough and very stressful.

I'm not trying to make any point about rape - this story isn't about that. I guess my point is that I do think it would be quite stressful. You implied it isn't. I don't condone any crimes. But the kind of things these two were arrested for happen quite often around Japan.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I do think it would be quite stressful. You implied it isn't.

No, I implied that we all have to deal with stress in some form or other, and a cushty posting to Okinawa is way down the list of stresses military people might expect to be exposed to. If they can't take the 'stress' of Okinawa, godelpem in a really stressful environment.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I guess my point is that I do think it would be quite stressful.

Excuse me for harsh words, but what sort of persons you are trying to depict of? :-)))) Sissies or still soldiers ? How dreadful it sounds :-)))"The junior enlisted live in a room with two or three room mates, sleep in single beds, some are "bunk beds." junior Sailors stationed aboard ships sleep in a rack about the size of a coffin stacked three-high, on used mattresses that are about 2.5 inches thick. They have dirty laundry hanging at the foot of their rack. The food served on the ships is mass produced & quite bland." Do you know that in real war enemy can surround your unit, shoot you to death or even cut your head off while you're still alive? And by your logic, "sleeping on mattress of 2,5 inches thick" may cause so deep stress that serviceman is ready to drink alcohol like uncontrolled pig, abuse and rape local population?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Meh. This is going to be happening for the long term. Okinawans will equate every incidence of misbehavior to be just as bad as rape and murder. Walking around naked in an internet cafe? Can't for the life of me guess why he would do that, but ask yourself WHO is the one that's going to be traumatized by that? If the other patrons of the cafe had thought about it, the best response would have been to laugh at him while whispering "chiisai!" Climbing to the roof of a building? Eh... if that's ALL he did, then who was injured? Yes they're both crimes, but no where near the severity of assault or rape.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@technosphere: Did I justify it? No. I simply stated what I believe the reason for the excessive drinking to be. Do I agree with ANY person getting so drunk that they cannot control themselves? No, I don't.

For one, I am not "deployed." I live here in Japan with my wife & son, in the Kanto region, not Okinawa.

You assume far too much.

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@cleo: At Fleet Activities, Yokosuka, the houses are officers quarters, there is a minimum rank required to live in one og those. The townhouses & co-joined houses are usually for lower ranking officers, & senior ranking enlisted. Most of the people live in towers, which are, basically, apartments.

I am onlyu speaking for what is in the Kanto area. I have never been to Okinawa. I assume maybe there is more space for housing there, as opposed to in the Kanto region. However, I serioulsy doubt lower-ranking service members have "spacious" quarters. At almost every military installation the higer your rank, the better your living standards. There are clearly defined "social classes," which sucks if you are on the lower end, because you see people who do less work "living large," while the people who bust their butts get the scraps.

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@cleo (again): You simply don't understand.

Unless you have served in the military, worked the long-hours, eaten the crappy food, slept in uncomfortable situations, dealt with idiots above you, who don't know what they are doing & take their stress out on you, get in your face, take away your freedom, punish you for something somebody else did, meanwhile, getting shipped of to a war zone form time to time, you wouldn't understand.

However, I don't see why you have to demean these people & imply that they cannot handle a lifestyle, which I doubt, you could handle.

There is a reason that the majority of citizens in every country have utmost respect for the men who volunteer to give their lives for their country. Let's not forget that these "delicate flowers," whom you reffer to could easily end up with a bullet in their heads, or their bodies blown to pieces, leaving grieving families behind.

They are people, just like you & I. They are someone's child. The only difference is, they have more of a chance of dying a violent death than we have.

Not all service members act foolishly, only a few here & there. To focus on a few & say that all are bad is blanket prejudice.

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There are clearly defined "social classes," which sucks if you are on the lower end, because you see people who do less work "living large," while the people who bust their butts get the scraps.

And that's different from the big wide world like how?

I don't see why you have to demean these people & imply that they cannot handle a lifestyle

The way I see it, you're the one demeaning them and stating they can't handle it, hence the drinking. I'm disputing your claim that life on Okinawa is so bad that the ranks have no alternative but to lose themselves in booze. You're the one painting them as delicate flowers, not me.

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unless, proven otherwise.. ;-)

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As of this morning the liberty policy has changed. The times are still the the same put consumption of alcohol is banned between 2200 and 0800. Now they cannot even be outside of their residence on base after 2300 as well.

Not sure, but I don't believe this is all branches. I think it's only Navy, but I'm not sure.

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Adultery: Two wrong people doing the right thing!

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It certainly would not hurt if the American military were to drill into their personal that they are guests and have the responsibility to act like decent guests.

You think they don't? Do you seriously think that's not drilled into our heads every single time we're sent out on liberty after work?

"You're ambassadors for the United States. Your conduct on liberty is a direct reflection of our standing here with Japan."

There are over one hundred thousand active duty service members here in Japan. Add in their families, and the number of US citizens here approaches half a million. Add in US civilian goverment employees and contractors and their families, and you at least double that. And the vast majority of them serve here as ambassadors, living politely alongside their Japanese neighbors, contributing to the community through clean up projects at local institutions for the underprivileged and handicapped. My command sponsors such clean up and holiday party events for two such institutions: a home for mentally challenged people and a shelter for battered women.

Yet, you never hear in the Japanese news how a group of US miliitary personnel went out and spent thousands of dollars throwing a Christmas party for people who have largely been abandoned by their own families as too much work, and who otherwise would not get to have such a party. You never hear in the Japanese news how a group of US miiltary personnel went out in the heat of summer to clean up an overgrown lawn for this same group.

And the absurd argument that you can solve this simply by restricting them to base below a certain rank? Bull. Like these policies, that only causes further resentment that ends up boiling over. For years, the US Navy had a "liberty card" program for its most junior enlisted members (which, by the way, was not applicable to its junior officers who fall into the exact same age/irresponsibility group), and it was completely ineffective. It put people into categories that made no sense, simply because no one wanted to bother assessing their actual risk potential. People like myself, who joined the military at an advanced age, were put into the same category as teenagers fresh out of high school who weren't even of a legal age to drink.

How does that solve anything?

Like it or not, the US military is here to stay for conceivably a very long time, and (here's the important part) that's a good thing! Given that the Japanese government still refuses to approve history text books that put Japan's military behaviour in WWII in proper perspective, i.e., in line with the facts of what was done, and thus the majority of the Japanese public still believes that such things as the Rape of Nanking and Korean "comfort women" (sex slaves for the Japanese military) never happened, because that's what they were taught and school wouldn't lie to them, yet the rest of Asia remembers Japanese military atrocities all too well, standing up a full and proper military with offensive capabilities is certainly the worst thing that could happen to Japan and its relations with its immediate neighbors.

Unless you want to be another Chinese province. Then it's okay.

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Prostitutuon should be legalized inside American bases ASAP !! Maybe this will keep army dudes from Okinawan Internet cafes??

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