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U.S. ambassador pledges full cooperation over alleged rape on Okinawa

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If guilty toss the key into a dark hole and have them pay for their crime.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Sick! Stupid drunk fools, thanks for making our stay in Japan harder! Let the Japanese government throw the book at them!

13 ( +20 / -7 )

I hope these two US servicemen will be judged in Japan according to Japanese laws and spend their time where the court decides.

16 ( +19 / -3 )

Two U.S. servicemen were arrested Tuesday on suspicion of raping a Japanese woman in Okinawa

again??...these people never learn do they ....

7 ( +13 / -6 )

They can't be "on duty" raping Japanese woman on Japanese soil hence should be subject to Japanese law, criminal offense.

11 ( +13 / -2 )

The Japanese police have custody of the two sailors. So a lot of the drama is just not going to happen. They can not hide on base this time.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Two U.S. servicemen were arrested Tuesday on suspicion of raping a Japanese woman in Okinawa again??...these people never learn do they ....

That's what happens when they don't do adequate background checks... They recruit losers like these guys... Unbelievable..... Utterly unbelievable... Hang-Em-High....! And if by some chance that they didn't actually do it, they should be punished for even putting themselves in any kind of position to be accused of rape... Stupid idiots...

I am so surprised they don't have 12 hours of mandatory training, in which the first thing they say is, repeat after me 1000 times, "I will not commit any crimes while in Okinawa..." and if they are not doing it, they need to... WTF are these guys thinking... ? But by the sound of the air station where one guy is from, they might be reservists.

4 ( +11 / -7 )

Konsta Off duty On duty it doesn't matter, there is no immunity for anyone committing rape or any sexual harassment against either sex. These young servicemen did not take all the warnings and posters that are all over the base. We as servicemen are suppose to behave in a professional manner at ALL times, on the base and off the base. The UCMJ is a tough set of laws no matter the country stationed at. According to the accord Japan and the US have between them, anyone accused of any crime is subject to local laws and prosecution thereof. The US military does not condone this behavior and anyone crossing the line can be demoted and or dishonorably discharged thus spending some time on the brig if suit fit. Let this be no mistake that these individuals DO NOT represent all the hard working women and men of the US military. They acted solely on their fantasies and greedy motives to fulfill some sexual need that does not have anything to do with their positions in the military. To bad that they have embarrassed the US Navy and every other serviceman for that matter. Shame on these two.

26 ( +23 / -0 )

They aren't stationed in Okinawa, they are temporarily there. As far as I am concerned these two idiots can rot in jail. The fact of the matter is that 99.9% of those military members in Okinawa behave properly. Its the .1% that ruins it for everyone else.

24 ( +29 / -6 )

Mirai/ That is not entirely true. Don't let your emotions get in the way. We as servicemen come to this country on orders to protect and serve. Understand that most men and women serving in the military ARE very educated and respectful individuals. The rest are trying but not all have the will to resist committing horrible acts like what has occurred this time and in the past.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Matthew,

" Its the .1% that ruins it for everyone else."

So true. Isn't it always that way? The knee-jerk reaction is always overboard and the 99.9% suffer the consequences.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Another? The sooner the Japan listens to the people of Okinawa and gets the US military out, the better.

-4 ( +10 / -14 )

"Sick! Stupid drunk fools, thanks for making our stay in Japan harder! Let the Japanese government throw the book at them!"

The US came up with this crazy system of innocent until proven guilty but not here. A three way gone wrong and she has the upper hand. Investigation, facts and a fair trial. Bear in mind this came from Japanese media and we know how reliable they are when it comes to their own yet alone foreigners. "One of the sailors admitted carrying out the attack, but the other has denied it, according to TV Asahi."

-17 ( +4 / -21 )

"Let the Japanese government throw the book at them!" You got a lot to learn about this country amigo...

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

Are you kidding me? There is so much anger by the Okinawans right now that they could make Mt. Fuji erupt. Yet, these two decide to rape a woman?? How STUPID do you have to be? I honestly think a pile of crap has more intelligence than these two combined! If they are guilty and convicted, then I hope that they rot in hell.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

U.S. ambassador John Roos said his government takes the incident very seriously and pledged full cooperation with the investigation

Hopefully, Hillary Clinton is ready to give up criminal immunity of US servicemen while they are stationed in Japan.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Konsta, if they are judged by a Japanese court according to Japanese law, they'll most likely get a slap on the wrist. All they have to say is 'I was drunk and didn't know what I did'. I say try them according to US law. I'm a former MP and was stationed in Japan. The stupid things military personal do when out on the town. To Mr. Obama, (or Romney) make an example out of these so called sailors/US diplomats and throw them to the dogs. To the US sailors who committed this stupid, unthinkable act, if the allegations are true, hope you rot in a Japanese prison.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

The knee-jerk reaction is always overboard (Herve Nmn L'Eisa)

One rape is one too many. No reaction to rape is overboard, unless you're one of those people who thinks it needs to be "legitimate rape" to be taken seriously.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

@ Maria, I see what you did there.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@ globalwatcher, you may want to check your statement. There is a SOFA agreement in place and no service member is immune to the law in Japan.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Jeez, the US military must hate the fact that it's servicemen haven't stopped raping Okinawans.....unforgiveable.

-7 ( +3 / -9 )

If guilty, I hope the punishment is quite severe. Hard, sweaty labor in a prison for years at least.

On a different issue, I wish Japanese police didn't have the power to hold you (foreigner or Japanese) for over 20 days without allowing a single phone call, though.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Someone start a petition at change.org and I'll sign it, to begin to try and get the U.S base, who are also my countrymen, out of Okinawa. Give Okinawa back to the Japanese people and end all of this nonsense once and for all.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

It is good the legal process can happen in a Japanese court. If they are found guilty and let off lightly then there will be no problems. Then they can be returned to the US military and the UCMJ. hereforever, my guy says do not worry they will not escape military justice. My guy says the US Navy will do the right thing.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Interesting that this event happened just after they lifted some of the liberty restrictions for junior sailors. Just from reading more on this story from Navy Times, it appears that the sailors were in Okinawa TAD from Fort Worth. That probably means they are not familiar to Okinawa, but that still doesn't give them the excuse to do what they did.

Hate to bring this subject up, but I need to know more about some of the details into the situation they found themselves in. What day did this happen, where did it allegedly occur. The reason why I state this is I was recently down in Okinawa earlier in the summer, and the scene outside Gate 2 is pretty much dead during the week. If these guys were just there TAD, they may not have known about the nightlife in Naha, so that leaves me to think that something more is not being said. Was it one of those cases where the proper "payment" wasn't given for service performed?

I am in no way saying that is the case, but I seem to remember a few years ago another case of rape in Okinawa, when the people there and on this board were ready to string up the alleged perp, until they found out that the whole situation was not as clear as many thought, and the Okinawa police dropped the charges on him.

If these guys are guilty, then by all means they should be sent to prison. But before we send them, and begin to deride the military presence in Oki, let's see what actually happened.

4 ( +12 / -7 )

Hopefully, Hillary Clinton is ready to give up criminal immunity of US servicemen while they are stationed in Japan.

Wrong department, globalwatcher. Clinton is Secretary of State.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

YuriOtani, thanks for the comment. I handled one rape case when I was an MP back in the 80s. The hardest thing ever in my life was listening to the victim give her statement. I just wanted to rip the sailor's throat out.

9 ( +11 / -2 )

They would get a much harsher sentence if America did not give back Okinawa.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Another rape? In Okinawa ? Involving U.S. militia? I mean military. I thought it was Groundhog Day.Who woulda knew ?

1 ( +7 / -6 )

YuriOtani: "It is good the legal process can happen in a Japanese court."

Yes and no. If they did indeed do the crime, they need to do the time, but don't forget that bias goes both ways and there's a strong threat of unfairness if tried in a Japanese court. Hopefully there will be a relatively objecting trial.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

China has claimed Okinawa belongs to them, would you rather the US or China living on your island?

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

http://www.bustedmugshots.com/texas/fort-worth/skyler-a-dozierwalker/45553661

Information: Name: Skyler A Dozierwalker Location: Fort Worth, Texas Age: 21 years Processing Date: 06-12-2010 Alleged Violation: GC 080 MC PUBLIC INTOXICATION

Not first time trouble for Skyler,

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Smith it is not if but when as the Japanese police have them. A normal process will happen and the Japanese politicians will get little millage from this crime. This is a high profile case and their rights will be respected. It is very possible they will be turned over to the US Military.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Send all American troops off the islands. Then and only then might the US actually recruit people of moral standing. Bush lowered the entry requirements to meet his Iraq invasion goals. Raise it back up and let the Okinawans have their lives back. US army and marines were baby killers in the 60's are still rapists, throw them in Leavenworth or Gitmo, for life.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

This rape by Servicemen is not just getting to be ridiculous but has already got to that point. Why not just come out with a new rule that the Military can not leave the base. Problem solved. I like many others are way past tired of this. For those in Okinawa, they fear for their families. Time to solve the problem and keep the military on base.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

seems that the deploy officer needs a checklist.

ok, private?

low alcohol tolerance, check peer pressure, check horn dog, check

sorry no okinawa for you private.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

OK guys you got me... I retract my absurd comment. No trial for these guys or investigation and throw them in jail and kick out the US military. You win.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Matthew SimonOct. 17, 2012 - 08:32AM JST

@ globalwatcher, you may want to check your statement. There is a SOFA agreement in place and no service member is immune to the law in Japan.

When did it change, Matt?

Sioux ChefOct. 17, 2012 - 08:56AM JST

Hopefully, Hillary Clinton is ready to give up criminal immunity of US servicemen while they are stationed in Japan.

Wrong department, globalwatcher. Clinton is Secretary of State.

To my understanding, Secretary of State has been working on this to change. Please let me know who will be able to change other than the State Dept. Thanks.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

"NHK reported that the new rape case was the seventh to result in the arrest of American servicemen since the United States returned Okinawa to Japan in 1972."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/17/world/asia/2-us-navy-sailors-arrested-in-okinawa-rape.html

1 ( +3 / -2 )

If these guys are guilty, definitely throw the book at them, what they did is not forgivable in any country, any setting - enough said, no one can argue rape is acceptable

BUT some of the comments - 'they never learn' as if they are constantly raping is false...they refer to a rape in '95, 17 years ago.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

2 bad guys among many, many good people in teh US Military. This is the case in any society. They are bad if they did the crime but tehy do not represent the MANY great people in teh US Military! To demonize the entire bunch is ignorance at its' best!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Give them life sentence

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I think before we condemn these two individuals to hard labor and lengthy prison sentences, we need to hear the whole story. There have been many different stories that have come out about how this incident took place. I am not condoing what has happened, but at least here in Okinawa, a good number of the rape accusations made here are actually false reports, although there are many reports that are credible as well. You would never know if the report was false or not because of course RBC and the other news channels here would never report that a false claim of rape was made and the servicemember actually did not do anything..

There are still many questions to be answered in this story. ABC news reports that the woman was attacked while trying to enter her home at 4 a.m. ABC also reports that the woman claimed she was sexually assaulted (which entails a number of different offenses, including rape) and robbed (which is'nt reported here). Hopefully the apartment building is well lit, but it would be interesting to find out how the woman was able to describe exactly the appearance of her attackers at 4 in the morning. Also, it was reported that three men were initially detained by the JP's, but the one was later released. Just wondering what information that individual had, because like most idiots, if these two did commit this crime, I am sure they ran their mouths about it.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

First and foremost let them have a trial and if found guilty. Than the law can take it's course. At the moment they only have been charged with a crime. I m sure both the US military and the local police will conduct a full investigations to find the facts. Makes sense, doesn't it?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Bokuwamo

Makes sense, doesn't it?

Yeah right, what planet do you live on? http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/05/19/1211182711732.html

Rape investigations by J police and US military are a joke, all designed to save face. Luckily the victim was Japanese and the suspects not Japanese so the cops might actually do a proper investigation.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

"NHK reported that the new rape case was the seventh to result in the arrest of American servicemen since the United States returned Okinawa to Japan in 1972."

Takuma7 -- exactly. Seven arrests in 40 years. Which makes the crime rate among the U.S. servicemen MUCH less than the rate of the overall Japanese population. But, the U.S.-haters want to paint all servicemen and women with the same brush and kick them all out. LOL.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Okianawa should goes back to China's protection, those rapes by US servicemen shall never being the last and those offenders shall never goes punished, they will be free once the people has forgotton!

-8 ( +0 / -8 )

Seven arrests in 40 years. Which makes the crime rate among the U.S. servicemen MUCH less than the rate of the overall Japanese population

And how many sexual assault cases goes unreported?

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

anti-American feeling runs high on the strategically vital island.

The Okinanwan inhabitants will be very grateful if the PLA rain down ballistic missiles in Kadena, that is their liberations!

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Always a few knuckleheads messing it up for everyone else on island and giving service members a bad name. What makes it even worse is these asshats were just passing though, only there for two days.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Its the .1% that ruins it for everyone else.

As guests on Okinawa, how many .1% are the Okinawans going to have to suffer? Isn't .1% too many or is it acceptable?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Another good reason to have Ospreys - move the USA military off the island and sell the land to investment interests. Change the rule- anyone off military property is under strict control of local law enforcement and cannot be rescued by the USA military. It happens, but nobody wants to admit it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Ive been under SOFA myself and I can say with certainty that there is no diplomatic immunity for service members. Service members who commit crimes in japan wind up in Japanese jail. There are plenty of service members at Kuriyama prison that will happily attest to this. This notion that us service members are above the law and commit crimes with immunity is utterly absurd. The US cooperates with Japan more than any other country it has SOFA agreements with.

3 ( +5 / -3 )

Oh, great.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

darknuts Oct. 17, 2012 - 12:46PM JST

And this was before or after the US softened Japan's SOFA last year? As for immunity, I seem to recall that this was one of the issues that caused Iraq to dis-invite the US military to extend their stay in Iraq. To be sure, "immunity" has a different meaning under SOFA, though.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

YuriOtani: I'm not disagreeing that it's good the Japanese authorities have them -- that's as it should be given that they are in Japan and committed the crime (if guilty) off base. There's still grounds for concern about fairness, but better in Japan than the soldiers being held and tried by the Taliban, for example.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

better in Japan than the soldiers being held and tried by the Taliban, for example.

One would think that even the most ardent US supporters would be able to distinguish the difference between a US soldier being held for criminal activity by America's so-called biggest Asia ally and a soldier being a POW of America's enemy in a war-zone. Are you sure you want to try to equivocate this incident using that analogy?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

To my understanding, Secretary of State has been working on this to change. Please let me know who will be able to change other than the State Dept. Thanks.

The military is part of the Department of Defense. However, there is nothing to change here; your idea that the U.S. military is immune from Japanese law is incorrect.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

If someone is really, beyond all doubt is guilty of a gruesome rape ( not one of em "i wasnt sure i wanted to have sex but was too drunk to make it clear thingies" ) - then they should be castrated, and yes it should apply to both men and women.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Let Japan have their own military. I think the world has had pretty much enough of U.S. paternalism and interference. America is militarily the most aggressive country on the planet. Every country should be free to have their own military to dissuade America's violent hegemonic tactics.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

It seems like every time there is a US serviceman committing rape abroad, it seems to happen most frequently in Japan. The US has many more servicemen stationed in places like Germany and I can't remember the last time there was a rape case there. Very troubling, very inconvenient considering the political circumstances. You'd think military commanders would be doing more to control this problem.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Which makes the crime rate among the U.S. servicemen MUCH less than the rate of the overall Japanese population. But, the U.S.-haters want to paint all servicemen and women with the same brush and kick them all out.

On the other hand, that rate would be 0% if they were gone which adds weight to their argument unless you are suggesting the a few rapes are acceptable in exchange for the great service that the US is providing to the people of Okinawa.

That said, it is truly amazing that, given the environment on Okinawa these days, US military commanders can not do a better job of ensuring that these things don't happen there. Aren't these troops supposed to be America's best and brightest? Well-disciplined? Always follow orders? Were the orders not given?

And how can they ever be considered "off-duty" when their mere presence in a foreign land on official orders of the US government makes them representatives of the American people 24-7?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

The best solution is to impose a certain period of orientation until the servicemen have proven by their conduct that they are trustworthy, and locate more "entertainment" facilities within the base to ensure events do not get out of control. There has to be better discipline and a buffer between the military and the civilian population.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

better idea...kick all US Military out of Japan and let the Japanese defend themselves....I am sure the Chinese and the North Koreans would love that! The Japanese needs the US Military here!

0 ( +4 / -4 )

So just-a-bigguy is allowed to post, but I am banned from addressing the logic of his post. Obviously something is not balanced here.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Matthew SimonOct. 17, 2012 - 08:32AM JST

@ globalwatcher, you may want to check your statement. There is a SOFA agreement in place and no service member is immune to the law in Japan.

Sioux ChefOct. 17, 2012 - 08:56AM JST

Hopefully, Hillary Clinton is ready to give up criminal immunity of US servicemen while they are stationed in Japan.

Wrong department, globalwatcher. Clinton is Secretary of State.

Matt & Sioux Chef

My understanding on SOFA has been confirmed and correct that Secretary of State has been working on this sensitive issue to change. In the past , many servicemen stationed in Okinawa escaped from criminal charges and fled to US.

Criminal issues vary, but the typical provision in U.S. SOFAs is that U.S. courts will have jurisdiction over crimes committed either by a servicemember against another servicemember or by a servicemember as part of his or her military duty, but the host nation retains jurisdiction over other crimes

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@sadani

SOFA agreements are different for each country. Iraq would require more protections for us service members because the human rights record there is abysmall. We can't have service members being tried under Islamic law. The agreement we have with Japan is different. Each SOFA agreement is tailored for that specific country. SOFA rights in Korea are not the same as in Japan but they are close. As for the "softening" of the SOFA agreement, I don't when that happened. Us service members typically get thrown in japanese jail unless the japanese decide to hand them back over. It's been this way for the last 8 years I've been here.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

As for the "softening" of the SOFA agreement, I don't when that happened. Us service members typically get thrown in japanese jail unless the japanese decide to hand them back over. It's been this way for the last 8 years I've been here.

"Japan and the United States reached agreement Nov. 24 to improve the operation of SOFA in connection with crimes and accidents involving on-duty U.S. DOD civilian employees. [...] The new agreement falls short of revising SOFA and does not cover on-duty U.S. service members who have committed crimes or caused accidents. It also reconfirms that the U.S. still holds the primary right to try American civilian armed forces workers who have committed crimes or caused accidents while on duty."

That was Nov 24, 2011.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

****This is despicable. I hope they are never released. America and Americans already have poor representation, jerks like this just make it worse. Not to mention the horror this young woman has to live with for the rest of her life. It makes me sick. Is castration legal in Japan? I hope so. That's more justice than these guys getting dishonorable discharge and a felony. I hate rapists, alcohol is no excuse for any behavior.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Well everyone is so heaved and curled up on the issue of "How are they going to be tried?" well just enlighten everyone. ABC news and other media outlets are on this story so hear it from them too. As for us living here, working here and providing safety through military assistance, WE are all pissed off. We also hope that these individuals are punished with accordance to the law. But just to outline, anyone not familiar what the SOFA US JAPAN agreement is about and what it states, you can click on this link and that will clear the table. You can also check out the UCMJ and that will state how the military courts handle this kind of behavior. It is quite stricter and swifter than civilian law, that's for sure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80%93Japan_Status_of_Forces_Agreement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Code_of_Military_Justice

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I hope these two US servicemen will be judged in Japan according to Japanese laws and spend their time where the court decides.

I don't. I hope the US judged them as the US gives out harsher sentences.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I am no way condoning this 'alleged' attack, but it happens a lot more regularly in the Japanese community. It is just an excuse to take the heat of the local rapists and put it onto the US servicemen.

Moderator: Sorry, but what happens in the Japanese community is not relevant to this particular discussion.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

There has been no actual release of statements, so both should be presumed innocent until proven guilty. And the victim should be examined thoroughly, one to make sure she's ok, two to make sure there wasn't any funny stuff going on (i.e. political reasons), and three to make sure the case is properly handled.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

JackInMilwWI-san,

Give Okinawa back to the Japanese people and end all of this nonsense once and for all.

Exactly!

It's past time the US military left.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Hopefully, Hillary Clinton is ready to give up criminal immunity of US servicemen while they are stationed in Japan.

I don't know what's more unbelievable, these idiots in Okinawa (who may or may not have actually raped) or people that think the military has "Immunity..." (Not too mention, Hillary Clinton, wouldn't have a say in it, if they did...)

There's NO Immunity... The agreement only says, when the JN police produce an indictment, they will be handed over... And that was even modified after that 1995 rape, to include immediate handover in cases involving "Serious Crimes."

If you haven't noticed, The JN Legal system is kind of like being in England in the 1300's... They just started Juries about a year or so ago, and not everyone gets them, and ALL police evidence is admissible... So if these guys were stupid enough to put themselves in any kind of position to be accused of rape, even if it was consensual, They are going to JAIL... Just like that Air Force E5 about 10 years ago, who defense was "It was consensual."

No sympathy for idiots, American OR Japanese...

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Another reason for the Japanese to hate foreigners,and to reduce the American military force in Japan... Hope they will pay for the crimes,it doesn't matter if you were drunk or what.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The Japanese police have custody of the two sailors. So a lot of the drama is just not going to happen. They can not hide on base this time.

And the saddest part about this is while the Japanese police have custody of them if they are charged, taken to trial and found guilty, they WILL get a MUCH lighter sentence from the Japanese courts than if they were handled in a US Military court. Japanese courts are NOTORIOUS for handing down lighter sentences for criminals that admit their guilt and show remorse.

These guys would more than likely get HAMMERED by the US Military and put into Leavenworth at hard labor if convicted.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

sigh They do more bad than good. To viewers of this comment don't you dare argue that "America is stopping China's invasion" No....they are not. As if the small 47 thousand odd troops could hold of the Chinese force. If there was a war between China and US they would not use soldiers...only in the end.

I think that America needs to realize it's not 1945 anymore and that they are not wanted here. This is Japan, not America. Go home.

Don't think I am correct? I have 100's of Japanese friends, I live here in Japan, I am married to a Japanese national making me a member of a Japanese family.. I have asked many people about the American's being here. Guess what? I asked them not to lie and to be honest....they all said "We hate American's being here" "We wish they would go home"

I personally think that America should pack up and go home.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Another? The sooner the Japan listens to the people of Okinawa and gets the US military out, the better.

If anyone uses this as the basis for wanting the military out of Okinawa or anywhere in Japan consider this; Japanese commit probably a hundred times more rapes and assaults on women during the course of ONE day than the US Military folks do in a year. Oh I forgot to a Japanese person that's ok because "It's our country" and "If the military weren't here that wouldn't have happened". Take the logs out of your own eyes before trying to take the slivers out of ours.

Rape is a crime of power, no one condones what these guys are accused of and no one thinks they should be let go either. What they did was wrong and unforgivable. But if you are going to point fingers based upon where someone comes from you had better be pointing your fingers at yourselves as well.

Moderator: Sorry, but we have ruled that references to Japanese committing similar crimes are not relevant to this particular discussion. Please repost.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I personally think that America should pack up and go home.

Well, that's us told. Here endeth the thread, I guess....

5 ( +5 / -0 )

I find it sickening that these people see Japanese women as easy meat for their sexual desires.

If they were ordinary non-Japanese would they be handed back to their consulate? No, they'd be tried in Japan. They should be treated the same as any other non-Japanese rapists. Even though I come from an Army family I don't think serving members of any armed forces should be treated differently than any other foreigner.

Try them in Japan!

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Cortes Elijah-san,

I have SO much agreement with what you write:

They do more bad than good.

Unfortunately true.

They are not all bad and there are those who genuinely try to do something for the community that they find themselves in. But in the balance, they do more harm than good.

To viewers of this comment don't you dare argue that "America is stopping China's invasion" No....they are not. As if the small 47 thousand odd troops could hold of the Chinese force. If there was a war between China and US they would not use soldiers...only in the end.

Far from stopping any invasion, they increase the likelihood of one. In the extremely unlikely event of a foreign power committing an act of aggression on Japan, the first place they would strike would be Okinawa because of the bases. Therefore they create a dangerous situation.

I think that America needs to realize it's not 1945 anymore and that they are not wanted here. This is Japan, not America. Go home.

Many of them, including the two arrested for rape have not the slightest respect for the country that unwillingly hosts them. If this rape was only one isolated case, it might be pardonable, but it is not, by any means. The vast majority of rape cases, especially in Japan, go unreported.

Don't think I am correct?

I think you are 100% correct.

I have 100's of Japanese friends, I live here in Japan, I am married to a Japanese national making me a member of a Japanese family.. I have asked many people about the American's being here. Guess what? I asked them not to lie and to be honest....they all said "We hate American's being here" "We wish they would go home"

Exactly the same experience.

I personally think that America should pack up and go home.

So do I and so do, I am sure, the majority of Okinawans.

Of course, to find out for sure, there should be a referendum.

But I don't think the Japanese government wants to do this, because they know what the outcome would be.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

Rape is a crime of power, no one condones what these guys are accused of what they did was wrong and unforgivable.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Then they can be returned to the US military and the UCMJ. hereforever, my guy says do not worry they will not escape military justice. My guy says the US Navy will do the right thing.

If these guys are charged, prosecuted, found guilty, and put into Japanese prison the military CAN NOT prosecute them for the crime of rape. Tell "your guy" to check up on the facts.

The military is limited on what it can charge them with, but the rape charge can not be brought BECAUSE of protection from double jeopardy. In the 1995 BRUTAL rape of a 12 year old the 3 military members were sentenced to 6 1/2 years in prison and upon their release from prison they were dishonorably discharged from the military.

They WILL escape military justice if sentenced in jail in a Japanese prison.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Edited to add a correction; 2 of the 3 were sentenced to 7 years, one was sentenced to 6 1/2 years.

The prosecutors in the case asked for 10.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Cortes Elijah.

What would happen if America left Japan?

NOTHING... EXCEPT.... that soon North Korea would begin to get BOLD and start "pushing" against Japan and South Korea. The Japanese Self-Defense Forces (JSDF) would be alone to try to stop the ultimate advances by North Korea.

America would pull back to Guam (American Territory) and instead of having a Navy fleet based at mainland Japan, our fleet would be based at Guam and we would have almost all the ships afloat and only at port for repairs and taking on supplies.

And, should Japan be attacked, and if Japan asks the US to help out, there would be many more deaths to the Japanese people and more destruction of Japanese cities and towns because the US was NOT there to be a warning against an invader.

"One bad apple can spoil the whole barrel."

ps. My grand parents were killed by Japanese when they bombed Pearl Harbor FIRST. (Hence the military presence in Japan) But I do not hold Japan or its people responsible for that. I hold a few people in the government for that. I also live in Japan and have a Japanese wife ect. I guess your family hating all Americans makes it right for the murder of my Grand Parents.... Just saying. Japanese killed them but I love these people and this country.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

Dont these morons ever learn? GI go home! The whole world is sick of you!

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Very few details in this story. Does anyone know where I can read a full account?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

jumpultimatestars: I agree with you to a large extent, but bear with me here. If you invited me to your house and I got wasted/excited/etc and trashed your house or kicked your dog/cat, I'd never be invited back again...you might even file charges right? However, if it was your spouse/sibling/parent/best friend you'd be a lot more forgiving, yes?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

@brknarm Although I suppose that that may make sense to them, to me it is illogical to hold one set of servicemen to higher standards than another set of servicemen just because they are of a different race. However, I do agree that ANYONE who has a job to protect others should be held to higher standards than the general populace.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

As much as I was hoping this wouldn't happen again. I knew it was just a matter of time before it did. The military should not make promises it can't possibly keep. When you have some 40,000 troops stationed here. How can you assure that every one of them is going to follow the rules to the letter. The only way of doing so is either to ban all military personal from leaving the base. Or make the punishment so severe for any infraction that it will strike fear into anyone who even considers it. I understand where people are coming from and you shouldn't pass judgement until more facts are present. Yet people forget this is Japan and that foreigners in general walk a very thin line. The military of all people need to show the greatest restraint as they are under the microscope the most. Even knowing the risks and how it could turn into an international incident they still do it. Knowing full well how it would be viewed among the Japanese people.

I don't care how things are done in america or what excuse they may have had. Serving in the military should be more then just wearing a uniform. You are representing your country and should conduct yourself as such. You need to see your position as something more then a job. When I came to Japan I had to give up a lot. I left my family at home behind. I had to struggle with learning the language, culture & people of which were very different then my own. I worked so very hard to try to gain the trust of people who are important to me now. Then two idiots come and destroy everything I have worked so hard to attain. What is it going to take to get it through to our armed forces in Japan. That their presences is of the utmost importance and how they conduct themselves is even more so. If we can't guarantee these incidents not occurring again.

Then I say we kick out all and I mean all forces in Japan. Keeping only top military brass who know how to conduct themselves. Those who do not want to be stationed in Japan should be allowed to relocate. I would have shot these two myself had I come across them. As far as I am concerned they are traitors to our country and should be dealt a swift punishment. We need to start treating these incidents with extreme prestigious. I say we make an example of them. Life in prison with no chance of parole!! Not to mention making the family pay restitution to the victims family. Make it clear to everyone that if you choose to go down this path. Your life as you know it will end in a most unpleasant manner. Japan is to important of an alley to let a couple of low life idiots ruin it for everyone else. If that means talking it to extremes then so be it!! Time we start acting like the people we so often claim to represent. Words cannot describe my anger and disappointment in this!!

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Apparently one of the suspects was arrested in the u.s. in the past.... Why does the US navy allow these folks to enter Japan? There should be better screening. http://www.mugshotsonline.com/texas/fort-worth/skyler-a-dozierwalker/45553661

4 ( +4 / -0 )

The military should not make promises it can't possibly keep.

Please show us any link anywhere that shows that anyone of authority from the US Military made any promise to anyone that things like "this" would NEVER happen again.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Yes lets kick all the Americans out!

We are crucifying these guys before we even know what really happened. If true then it is of course heinous, but we simply don't know the whole story.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

This case is very very strange right now that the United States and Japan are training for war,this case arises suddenly. The question is who else would win this time if the army the United States is out Japan ?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

What I don't understand is why Okinawa will not let the military establish a shore patrol. It helps prevent things like this.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I'm from an allied country and my impression is Ambassador Roos has been very good in reaction to this. Also the US military in Okinawa record over the last 19 years or so has been good. Obviously the result of a lot of careful briefing. The trouble was these two young guys were not stationed here, just passing through. Arrived Sunday, leaving Tuesday for Guam or something like that. I wonder if they got a local briefiing? For any military passing through, a half hour briefing and a handout - "You dont do anything like this" - should be obligatory. It they had that, this would not have happened, I think.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I've said this before and I am saying this again. U.S. Military personale are not tourist or travelers in ANY HOST country. They SHOULD NOT be allowed to travel freely outside of military bases or compounds. When they are allowed to travel without supervision they are more likely to commit crimes. Being able to travel within Japan is previleage and should be EARNED not given to U.S. military personale who without being in the military would more than likely not be there. Given that most military personale are from poor or working-class backgrounds. They are not mainstream americans. Many come from broken homes, low socio-economic backgrounds, or are barely out of highschool.

Look at Iraq. Soldiers are kept in secure isolated areas and don't freely travel among the population Given the hostile enviroment but it shows that its possible to set up green zones and keep them from traveling freely.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

RESTRICT US MILITARY PERSONALE FROM DOMESTIC TRAVEL *Especially non-senior officers.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Shiningfinger/ Given that most military personale are from poor or working-class backgrounds. They are not mainstream americans. Many come from broken homes, low socio-economic backgrounds, or are barely out of highschool. Are you sure about that? Are you 100% sure about that? These fools were not stationed in Okinawa. But now they will be here longer due to this unprecedented and unfortunate event. The girl in question is being questioned and interrogated to assure proper handling in this case. PEOPLE.... we are acting like Americans living here in Japan are a burden to this society. They are not. Most foreigners living here in Japan have families, have jobs, work hard and contribute to the fabric of this society. Let there be justice for these criminals in question and let's leave other foreigners alone for they are the one's committing any crimes here.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

What I don't understand is why Okinawa will not let the military establish a shore patrol. It helps prevent things like this.

No it would not have prevented this from happening. Where the alleged rape occurred is literally miles and miles away from any military base and in an area not frequented by military folks.

Take the next logical step too, Japan is a sovereign country that is hosting the US Military bases, would YOU want to have a foreign police presence patrolling YOUR streets, without having to follow YOUR laws? I think not.

I LIVE in Okinawa and I have BEEN stopped by MP's who walk/patrol some areas near Kadena AB. They asked me for ID, I told them politely to get screwed, they tried to get uppity about it and I was hoping they would have taken me away, would have made a nice ton of cash, as I am not SOFA nor Military. But unfortunately the JP's were with them and asked me for my ID which I gave them, and they didnt show it to the MP's either.

I went my merry way, but did not like seeing the MP's patrolling the streets in Okinawa, not one bit! This is Japan, and as long as the military is here, let the Japanese have their rights OFF BASE. Leave the military COP's on base to deal with their problems.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Interesting, shiningfinger I was in the Marine Corps 8 years in Japan and 4 in Oki. I still live in Japan today, I went to a college prep high school and came from an upper middle class background, in fact a high school diploma is a requirement to be in the Marines. Your statement to flagrantly abusive and a broad generalization based on assumptions made on a crime committed by a couple bad apples. How is restricting travel going to solve the problem of a couple guys that are already behind bars?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I was hoping they would have taken me away, would have made a nice ton of cash

,

Dream on.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

@Yubaru

No it would not have prevented this from happening. Where the alleged rape occurred is literally miles and miles away from any military base and in an area not frequented by military folks.

That may be because the guys were not stationed Japan, which renders moot all of these anti base arguments. I'm talking about the crimes that occur from military stationed in Okinawa.

Take the next logical step too, Japan is a sovereign country that is hosting the US Military bases, would YOU want to have a foreign police presence patrolling YOUR streets, without having to follow YOUR laws? I think not.

The purpose of Shore patrol is to identify service members who are getting into trouble or have had too much to drink and bring them back to base before they cause an incident. They do not have jurisdiction over Japanese and do not bother them. They are NOT above the law. And do NOT violate the rights of japanese. In your case, if the Japanese were with them and you showed them your ID, there should not have been a problem.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

We don't need such TOMODACHI like you.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I hope the rape was worth 10yrs jail time.. NOT!!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Military personnel wandering around outside their bases shouldn't need a briefing about what not to do... rape is a crime in any situation, and if the guys can't grasp that simple fact then they are too stupid to wear the uniform of the US armed forces.

I had a girlfriend who went to Roppongi once and she told me that a bunch of soldiers were leering at her, trying to get off with her. She and her friend were terrified and went straight back home. These women were in their early 40s and had never encountered this kind of thing before...

US servicemen should be given Bromide to stop them getting horny in the first place!

2 ( +3 / -1 )

@Matthew Simon to give you the facts : "The military requires at least 90 percent of enlisted recruits to have high school diplomas.[6] Most enlisted recruits DO NOT have a college degree"

I"m sure your entire family thinks you achieved great things with your life and fulfilled your potential being in the U.S. armed service. But most "upper middle class" families laugh at the notion of their children growing up to join the military. The military is seen as a way out of poverty, un-employment, etc. Generally Parents who have attained higher education have children who also attain higher education and ignore the many army,marine recruiters who troll the neighborhoods, walmarts, churches, community centers, etc looking to fulfill their quotas.lol

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

"According to a recently released FBI report, Gang-related activity in the US military is increasing and poses a threat to law enforcement officials and national security."

"The report, Gang Activity in the U.S. Armed Forces Increasing, dated January 12, states that members of nearly every major street gang have been identified on both domestic and international military installations."

" Members of nearly every major street gang, including the Bloods, Crips, Black Disciples, Gangster Disciples, Hells Angels, Latin Kings, The 18th Street Gang, Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13), Mexican Mafia, Nortenos, Surenos, Vice Lords, and various white supremacist groups, have been documented on military installations"

Does this sound like mainstream america??? Highly educated, middle-class backgrounds? NO they accept anybody with a pulse who isn't high during training. even those with criminal records have joined the military. as this reports shows.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

"The rise in gang activity coincides with the increase in recruits with records. Since 2003, 125,000 recruits with criminal histories have been granted what are known as "moral waivers" for felonies including ROBBERY and ASSUALT." - FACT

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-3107316.html

3 ( +5 / -2 )

If feel sorry for the victim who suffered moral and psychological damage. It is indeed a terrible crime that should be brought to justice. While I agree that the two should definitely pay their crime, but I am against with all these anti-Americans sentiments in this thread. I disclaim that I am not a Japanese neither am I an American but I don't believe that in just one awful case like this should concatenate and blame all the majority of the Americans and also in some way all Gaijins in any race.

In contrast to my experience, Not all Okinawans are hateful towards the Americans and their bases. One Okinawan who owns a law school said "The mainlanders are the one who despises the American and their installation, Americans helped Okinawa with its economy back in the days when it was still under US control...". Another Okinawa friend stated "Naicha (Okinawans' way of calling mainlanders) people are so inconsiderate, they are the ones that is so sensitive about the Americans and their bases, we Okinawans are not that anxious."

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

This story sounds very fishy, seems like something similar a couple of years back. Could be some political propaganda! You think the last time the US generals would warn their people to be carefull, It spurred an international crisis years ago. This seems like crap!

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

The purpose of Shore patrol is to identify service members who are getting into trouble or have had too much to drink and bring them back to base before they cause an incident. They do not have jurisdiction over Japanese and do not bother them. They are NOT above the law. And do NOT violate the rights of japanese. In your case, if the Japanese were with them and you showed them your ID, there should not have been a problem.

To even suggest that this could have prevented what happened tells me that you have no idea about the logistics or understand anything about Okinawa.

Neither of these military folks were stationed on Okinawa. Which means that neither of them were in uniform, which most military folks are not in when partying in town, so the SP's or MP's would have to stop ANY foreigner that may look drunk or out of hand and here in Okinawa there are nearly 120 different countries represented so how are you going to discern between those who are US military/SOFA and those who are not?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

"an island fed up with hosting the U.S. military"

Except , of course, for all the islanders working on the bases and their families.

Well, the day will come when they'll be hosting the Chinese military, maybe they'll like that better.

That all being said, if these sailors are guilty ( one of them has already admitted his guilt ) they should be severely punished. Idiots.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Except , of course, for all the islanders working on the bases and their families. Well, the day will come when they'll be hosting the Chinese military, maybe they'll like that better.

Hey Serrano: What exactly are you trying to point out here? What have the "islanders working on the bases and their families" have anything to do with this tread? And a Chinese military...liking them? LOL!

Well IMHO these two fags should be tried here in Japan, be sentenced to 10 years with no bail and parole to "Muntinglupa" penitentiary jail in PI where they are to be forced as part of their punishment to bring all their sexy female close families and then after serving time there, send them to alcatraz next to rot forever. And you can join their fancy itinerary SErrano, so that you can prove your point here.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Well IMHO these two fags should be tried here in Japan, be sentenced to 10 years with no bail and parole to "Muntinglupa" penitentiary jail in PI where they are to be forced as part of their punishment to bring all their sexy female close families and then after serving time there, send them to alcatraz next to rot forever. And you can join their fancy itinerary SErrano, so that you can prove your point here.

The Japanese jails are just so much high tech and too nice for this fags, they need something more repenting like what they have in their home country with MS13 and 18's as inmates. They will get all the rape there that they can never even dream of.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I'm American, but I'm tired of the US military in Japan. Two idiot soldiers forced me and a friend off the sidewalk in Tokyo, just because they could. Three Afghanistan snipers asked me to hook them up with cocaine. I had to push one drunk soldier off some poor Japanese girl in Zushi. Keep them on the base at least.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

Meh. The "they never learn" statement doesn't apply because these two never were caught before and therefore had nothing to "learn" from. If they had been caught before, they wouldn't still be in the military. There's no mention of whether the sailors were drunk, but I'm guessing they were, in which case their judgement faculties were compromised. Regardless, they're now facing the triple-whammy of prosecution/punishment in Japanese judicial system, followed by prosecution/punishment in the U.S. Military judicial system, followed by almost certain dishonorable discharges from the military. They've destroyed their lives for a few minutes of pleasure at someone else's expense. I feel no sympathy towards them, even though I'm ex-navy.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Phil StilwellOct. 17, 2012 - 11:30PM JST

I'm American, but I'm tired of the US military in Japan. Two idiot soldiers forced me and a friend off the sidewalk in Tokyo, just because they could. Three Afghanistan snipers asked me to hook them up with cocaine. I had to push one drunk soldier off some poor Japanese girl in Zushi. Keep them on the base at least.

You just described everything I've seen... but what I saw were Japanese guys. You find bad apples everywhere, it doesn't mean the orchards are poisoned.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

on an island fed up with hosting the U.S. military.

So if the U.S. closed shop and left, how many jobs would be lost?

Military bases account for what percentage of employment in Okinawa I wonder.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Let me ask and say this. If Japan / Okinawa is so concerned about their citizens. Why haven't they replace the military with there own already? Looks like a deadbeat incapable parent milking welfare to me. Want to end this. Do that math and make it right yourselves! And bad seeds stop making it worse for the majority! Hope they get the facts in correctly process this properly. Hope the lady was, daijobu

0 ( +4 / -4 )

basroilOct. 18, 2012 - 12:17AM JST You just described everything I've seen... but what I saw were Japanese guys. You find bad apples everywhere, it doesn't mean the orchards are poisoned.

Assess it statistically. Your comment is analogous to saying house cats are just as dangerous as tigers because you've been scratched by a cat an never by a tiger. I'd say 5% of the soldiers I've met behave poorly while 0.05% of the Japanese I've met behave poorly.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Would say the two sailors had a plan and did it. They probably rented a car on base and went to an area in which there are few if any Americans. Would say that just because they are on Okinawa now temporary does not mean they were never stationed on Okinawa before. The women of Japan look young compared to American women, so they would look like long teens to them. Most non SOFA and Okinawa people do not want the MP,s and SP,s going around and harassing people. It is like before reversion when they use to go around and bother everyone.

Having said all of that I see this as a crime committed by 2 American sailors. I do not think they were drunk and see it as their plan to commit rape. Thought they could get away with it. If you look at the numbers these two are the small exception and not rule. Yubaru sorry to have given you a hard time. Am happy you are a part of our Okinawa community.

Most Okinawa people do not hate Americans. Though stories like this reinforce negative stereotypes. I know these were two criminal sailors and do not represent the American forces stationed in Japan. Am not sure if they are guilty but what lead the Japanese police to arrest these two? I say let justice take its course. I say let this not be used as anti American or anti base. Anyone agree with me?

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

@Yubaru

ANY foreigner that may look drunk or out of hand and here in Okinawa there are nearly 120 different countries represented so how are you going to discern between those who are US military/SOFA and those who are not?

Simply by not allowing military personal off base to wear civilian clothes period! It's like being in school and not being allowed to have cell phones during class. Not sure why this isn't already a requirement as it is just encouraging bad behavior. Having attended both public and private schools in the states. I liked the private ones better as we had a mandatory school uniform. People gripe about this but I it does have a physical effect on people. It puts everyone on the same page. Studies have shown in the states that school kids perform better where a mandatory school uniform was enacted. It keep those who fall into certain groups from sticking out to far and being targets for other groups to pick on. It has also helped some problem kids boost their confidence and not feel like their targets.

My wife has told me that in Japan that isn't so much the case but she was impressed with how private schools in the states have used this to great effect. In contrast I believe by forcing military personal to be in uniform at all times while off base might have a similar effect. This way at least they can't blend in with other foreigners and just expect to get away with stuff. Drinking should also not be allowed either off base. To make sure this rule is followed, require screening each time. Knowing they could face a disciplinary committee if they break this rule might force more self policing on their part. I also agree with Jade that more severe punishment needs to be enacted.

I can guarantee that if you make it known that your military career could end. In addition to being turned over to local authorities if you break the rules. It would make people think twice now wouldn't it. Having known people who have been within the Japanese prison system. I can say it isn't a place you want to be, especially if you are a foreigner. It no doubt would get a lot of flack back home but then again would be effective. I hate to say this but some fear needs to be put back into the US military. The kind of fear which makes you loose sleep at night. These incidents would drop off dramatically if they knew they wouldn't be protected any longer. What are your guys thoughts on this? I think a little tough love might be in order at this point.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

The fact that they had only been on the island for a couple of days before planning to return (to wherever) tells me that they were not stationed on Okinawa, but were just on leave. From NBC News' website:

The two sailors in custody were on overnight leave and crewmembers on a U.S. Navy cargo plane that was in Okinawa for only a day or two while on a delivery mission, officials told NBC News.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/16/14486886-2-us-navy-sailors-accused-of-raping-japanese-woman-in-okinawa?lite

NHK reports that this is the seventh time U.S. servicemen have been arrested in Japan for rape since the island was returned to Japanese control in 1972. You can look at that information two different ways: either the number of rapes by U.S. servicemen in Japan is only .175 rapes per year, or that the number of reported rapes by servicemen that result in arrests is much lower than the actual number of rapes committed by servicemen. The truth is probably closer to the latter than the former.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

presumably these guys are "alleged" rapists? Presumed 'innocent'? By the looks of most of the postings above many have people have made up their minds already. Will they receive a fair hearing with all this media attention? Would be pretty bad to be in a Japanese jail for rape if innocent now wouldn't it? - But hey, blood lust is pretty common on these message boards.....

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Military bases account for what percentage of employment in Okinawa I wonder.

So a few rapes should be acceptable for "economic" reasons? The US is supposed to be protecting the Japanese people, but who protects the Japanese people from the US?

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

NOTHING... EXCEPT.... that soon North Korea would begin to get BOLD and start "pushing" against Japan and South Korea. The Japanese Self-Defense Forces (JSDF) would be alone to try to stop the ultimate advances by North Korea.

Japan's military is rated 9th in the world, 3rd in Asia (behind China and S. Korea and without a US presence), while North Korea ranks 22nd and would have to deal with South Korea in order to get to Japan. North Korea is a dubious threat at best but a great bogeyman for the Americans to use against the Japanese and South Koreans.

As for China, without the US as intermediary and protector, Japan would have to work harder, accept some compromise, and learn the value of real diplomacy in order to live beside China. However, if accomplished, that relationship could be much more beneficial than the Japan/US relationship. The problem is that any attempt to move in that direction with China is always ruined by the US (Hatoyama/Ozawa being the most recent example).

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Dudedeuce,

Military bases account for what percentage of employment in Okinawa I wonder.

Very little. About 5% of the economy, apparently.

But returning the bases to peaceful use would create thousands of new jobs. In construction, at first, building the new residential areas, shopping areas, hotels and tourist facilities and then in operating them.

Okinawa is a perfect area for tourism development. Building up tourism would create a tourism boom that would benefit both Okinawa and Japan. It would attract foreign tourists too, and since so many people speak English here, they would be sure of a job.

The US forces leaving Okinawa would be of huge benefit to these islands.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Basroil,

You just described everything I've seen... but what I saw were Japanese guys. You find bad apples everywhere, it doesn't mean the orchards are poisoned.

The Japanese guys who did these things were bad apples, true. And so were the US military.

But you missed one vital point.

The Japanese guys were Japanese and the US military guys were foreigners charged with the responsibility of representing their country and with defending (well, on paper at least) this country.

That gives several minus points to the US military over the Japanese bad apples.

Add to that the situation that they are unwelcome in this country in the first place and you see things in a different light.

I wonder how you would feel about it if visiting Japanese soldiers raped American women and forced Americans off sidewalks?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Stay on topic please.

The truth is probably closer to the latter than the former.

Based on what? Do you have statistics or just your biased "gut feeling?"

In fact, most studies on this show that rape is one of the most under-reported of all major crimes because of the personal nature of it and the public shame of being a victim. This plays a particular role in Asian cultures where "face" is such an important aspect of the culture.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Very little. About 5% of the economy, apparently.

Wrong answer it's closer to 10% for the entire island but in fact closer to 70% plus minus some, for the localities that have bases in them.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

NHK reports that this is the seventh time U.S. servicemen have been arrested in Japan for rape since the island was returned to Japanese control in 1972.

I have a seriously hard time believing NHK on this one. Just off the top of my head I recall at least that many in just the past 15 years or so. In the 70's and 80's it had to be worse.

Oh right arrested.......

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

For any military passing through, a half hour briefing and a handout - "You dont do anything like this" - should be obligatory. It they had that, this would not have happened, I think.

You're correct. This shows a failure of the entire chain of command of the US military. Where does the buck stop? Are the officers in charge of these people not properly trained to ensure that those under their commend act lawfully? Apparently not. That means the next level of command failed and then the next.

It seems to me that, if these charges are true, many in the military should be held responsible for not upholding their responsibilities, not just these two men.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I have a seriously hard time believing NHK on this one. Just off the top of my head I recall at least that many in just the past 15 years or so. In the 70's and 80's it had to be worse.

According to this paper, it's 147 arrests since the reversion.

http://www.ritsumei.ac.jp/acd/re/k-rsc/lcs/kiyou/pdf_23-2/RitsIILCS_23.2MIYAGI.pdf

2 ( +4 / -2 )

But it is very, very strange that just happen when Japan and the United States are strengthening military ties.

Yes, you made this observations at least twice on this thread.

Similar statements of concern were made about the South Korean ship allegedly sunk by North Korea, conveniently occurring at a time when relations between North and South Korea were improving, much to the chagrin of the US who simply can not maintain its massive presence in Japan and South Korea without a bogeyman to defend against.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Phil StilwellOct. 18, 2012 - 12:56AM JST

Assess it statistically. Your comment is analogous to saying house cats are just as dangerous as tigers because you've been scratched by a cat an never by a tiger. I'd say 5% of the soldiers I've met behave poorly while 0.05% of the Japanese I've met behave poorly.

Statistically this is a load of bull. SOFA member crime is lower than the general population, something like a quarter of the general Okinawan crime rate. http://nihon.awardspace.com/okinawa_sofa_crime.html

Being an ass doesn't mean you are committing a crime.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

@ Saidaini

You're correct. This shows a failure of the entire chain of command of the US military. Where does the buck stop? Are the officers in charge of these people not properly trained to ensure that those under their commend act lawfully? Apparently not. That means the next level of command failed and then the next.

It seems to me that, if these charges are true, many in the military should be held responsible for not upholding their responsibilities, not just these two men.

Seriously? You think that people need to be told not to rape someone? This was the action of 2 idiots and nothing more. For their actions they will be held responsible. As far as the rest of their chain of command I am sure they will get hammered in one way or another by their military superiors. Seriously though these fools would have done this regardless of whether or not they were briefed on appropriate behavior (which I am sure they received a brief). People break laws, this is not just in the military, look at the rest of the crimes just in this section of JT. The only reason you are reading about this rape at all is because of its location, and who was involved or it would not even rate the news. That doesn't make it o k, nor am I trying to defend their actions it is just the way it is. I think that these acts are despicable as well. And those involved will be held accountable you can bet on it.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Seriously? You think that people need to be told not to rape someone?

The fact that they did commit rape (if the allegations are true) would seem to suggest that they should have been explicitly ordered not to commit rape. Are you opposed to issuing such orders if it would eliminate the problem? If the US military cannot assure the safety of the local population because of their supposed high ideals and esprit de corps, then some other method must be employed. In the end, the people in charge of these men failed. If they are not held accountable, what makes you think they won't allow it to happen again with two more "idiots?"

US troops are guests, foreigners, and have no particular affiliation with the community. They should be held to a higher standard, not the same and not less than the sovereign citizens of the islands.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

This shows a failure of the entire chain of command of the US military

Wrong, totally, that would be like blaming current PM for actions committed by his predecessors over 100 years ago.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Wrong, totally, that would be like blaming current PM for actions committed by his predecessors over 100 years ago.

Why, that's just crazy and a failure as an analogy. It would, however, be like holding him responsible for the actions of his current Cabinet. Are you opposed to that?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Back on topic please.

Fragging might be in order. These guys bring shame upon the rest.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

a crime is a crime. remember they are but guests and should mind their manners and conducts at all times.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Dear U.S. Ambassadoe John Roos:

In a colony, such incidents are everyday occurrences, aren't they? So, Ambassador Roos, before accusing individual offenders, you should re-exam the system itself and address the hard reality that Okinawa is nothing but a U.S. military colony. Every U.S. service member notices Okinawa as a U.S. military colony the moment he or she sets foot on the island.

You may deny my assertion by citing the Japan-U.S. Mutual Security Treaty and the Status of Forces Agreement under which the U.S. military presence and individual soliers' standing status are legitimately and justifiably guaranteed. But a spate of incidents like this never fail to betray the hard fact that the bilateral agreements are simply gimmickry.

Mr. Roos, if you are really worried that this incident may "act as a lightning rod for growing anti-U.S. feeling," you should not merely reprimand these offenders but you must work hard to rectify this unjust situation under which Okinawans are forced to live.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

The fact that they did commit rape (if the allegations are true) would seem to suggest that they should have been explicitly ordered not to commit rape. Are you opposed to issuing such orders if it would eliminate the problem?

You honestly believe that these men thought it was ok to rape as long as there was no order against it? They knew dword well that it was not acceptable. You and I both know that such an order would not have prevented what these two men are alleged to have done. Plus no order would even need to be given, it is common sense that rape is wrong.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

voiceofokinawaOct. 18, 2012 - 11:44AM JST

Roos is nothing but an Obama campaign funding bundler who gave enough to get the plum post in Japan. If Obama loses next month, he returns to private life. He bought his prestige and diplomatic CV.

Roos was hired by Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati in 1985, having previously worked for O’Melveny & Myers in the early 1980s. In 2000 he was promoted to managing director of professional services. Roos was named as the new CEO of the law firm in February 2005. During his tenure as CEO Roos reportedly fundraised over $500,000 for Barack Obama's 2008 presidential campaign.

In May 2009 Obama named Roos as his choice to replace the departing Tom Schieffer as United States Ambassador to Japan. This led to some criticism in Japan[citation needed] because of Roos' lack of diplomatic experience and any obvious connection to Japan. After hosting Roos at the White House and appearing before reporters with him, Obama said that he chose Roos because "after careful consideration I made the determination that the person who I thought could best do this is somebody with superb judgment, somebody with an outstanding intellect, somebody who is a very close friend of mine and a close adviser," referring to Roos.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Roos

He utters patronizing words approved by the bureaucrats at the State Department designed, as only bureaucrats can, to placate the hoi polloi and give them the impression that the US actually cares. Actions are what matters, however. And to be sure, Roos will not begin any actions by his personal initiative. You might as well have addressed this letter to your cat for all the good it will do.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

You honestly believe that these men thought it was ok to rape as long as there was no order against it? They knew dword well that it was not acceptable. You and I both know that such an order would not have prevented what these two men are alleged to have done. Plus no order would even need to be given, it is common sense that rape is wrong.

I honestly don't know what they thought. Still, they raped (allegedly) a young woman. How can you be sure they knew it was not acceptable? Who knows what stories their fellow sailors told them about Okinawa girls? It is certainly obvious now that they could have used some direction. That, to me, is just common sense.

If these men would not have followed orders, then why are they in the US military? What other orders could their COs expect they would not follow? Is this a serious problem for the US...soldiers being able to choose which orders to obey and officers simply not giving orders because they know the men will not follow them? Please enlighten us to this problem of command in the US as it only adds to the other concerns Okinawans have with them.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

"allegedly" ? when there's smoke...

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

"allegedly" ? when there's smoke...

Aside from protecting one's personal liability, if one believes in the notion of "innocent until proven guilty," it is best to leave no doubt lest you be accused of advocating lawlessness. They deserve a trial where the facts can be determined.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

If the crime were committed by ordinary man, the punishment will be tougher. In my knowledge, it was not first rape or last rape unless there is deterrence of capital punishment. In Singapore and PRC law and order are not favored to uniformed personnel or foreigners. Marines are social and economic burden for locals. They have plenty of spare time to fulfill their desire. The another meaning is they are paid unemployed staff. They have to perform civic duties such as cleaning and collecting garbage. Whether they are ready for action or not, they have to be busy with some meaningful work. Otherwise they have to retire from arm forces because they are too bored now.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I honestly don't know what they thought. Still, they raped (allegedly) a young woman. How can you be sure they knew it was not acceptable? Who knows what stories their fellow sailors told them about Okinawa girls? It is certainly obvious now that they could have used some direction. That, to me, is just common sense.

They probably thought, if they did what they are alleged to have done, that they wanted to have sex and they knew it was wrong to rape a girl but probably thought they would be able to get away with it and so they did it. Name a country where it is acceptable to rape someone. You believe that soldiers told them that Okinawa girls are acceptable to rape? What basis do you have to support that claim? Again where are you coming up with this idea that someone telling them that it is wrong to rape someone in Japan would have prevented this? You really honestly think that if someone had ordered them not to rape they wouldn't have raped because they thought it was acceptable to rape and that rape is only wrong in America. So if it is common sense, what you are saying is that when you travel abroad you need to have someone tell you it is not acceptable to rape people in the country you are traveling to you? That is sad man. I would argue that it is more commonsense that they already knew it was wrong to rape someone no matter what country they were in or location they were at.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

So if it is common sense, what you are saying is that when you travel abroad you need to have someone tell you it is not acceptable to rape people in the country you are traveling to you?

Two differences. I don't commit rape and I am not a member of the US military. But, if I were a member of the US military, I would expect the service to defend my personal honor and that of the corps by eliminating this degrading and indefensible activity.

Again where are you coming up with this idea that someone telling them that it is wrong to rape someone in Japan would have prevented this?

I don't know. Has it been tried? I don't hear about young Japanese girls being shot by US troops. What does the military do to ensure that is not a problem? Or does the military just assume that soldiers know it is not right to shoot civilians? The question is not what I think should be done, but whether the military is doing enough.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

presumably these guys are "alleged" rapists? Presumed 'innocent'? By the looks of most of the postings above many have people have made up their minds already. Will they receive a fair hearing with all this media attention? Would be pretty bad to be in a Japanese jail for rape if innocent now wouldn't it? - But hey, blood lust is pretty common on these message boards.....

One has already admitted carrying out the attack, so at least ONE of them does not get the "alleged" label. The other one is denying it, but why would the woman say two sailors were involved if only one actually was?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Two differences. I don't commit rape

So you are saying you don't have to be told not to commit rape? Why?

and I am not a member of the US military.

Ok fine, how about instead when you travel for pleasure shouldn't the US government tell you not to rape?

How about if you are traveling for business, shouldn't your company tell you not to rape?

How about if you are an international student, shouldn't your school tell you not to rape?

In other words your two differences are completely irrelevant and don't mean anything.

But, if I were a member of the US military, I would expect the service to defend my personal honor and that of the corps by eliminating this degrading and indefensible activity.

It is a good thing they are, US military members crime rate is lower than the Japanese national average.

I don't know. Has it been tried?

Probably not because it is already known to those soldiers that it is wrong and illegal.

I don't hear about young Japanese girls being shot by US troops. What does the military do to ensure that is not a problem?

Absolutely nothing.

Or does the military just assume that soldiers know it is not right to shoot civilians?

Yep.

The question is not what I think should be done, but whether the military is doing enough.

So what you're saying is that the average American or average American soldier is taught or is trained to believe that rape is not wrong and they are allowed to do it and because of that they need to be told not to commit rape......

Again telling them not to commit rape isn't going to do anything because if these soldiers did what they are alleged to have done then the answer is that they knew it was wrong but they did it because they believed they wouldn't get caught.

The fact you honestly believe that these soldiers grew thinking rape was acceptable is astonishing and even more astonishing that you believe that the US military needs to hand out a common sense order that rape is wrong.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

This will not be the first time that ALL personell has suffered because of a few morons... Anyone remember 2002?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

**saidani

SanCortes Elijah.

What would happen if America left Japan?

NOTHING... EXCEPT.... that soon North Korea would begin to get BOLD and start "pushing" against Japan and South Korea. The Japanese Self-Defense Forces (JSDF) would be alone to try to stop the ultimate advances by North Korea.

America would pull back to Guam (American Territory) and instead of having a Navy fleet based at mainland Japan, our fleet would be based at Guam and we would have almost all the ships afloat and only at port for repairs and taking on supplies.

And, should Japan be attacked, and if Japan asks the US to help out, there would be many more deaths to the Japanese people and more destruction of Japanese cities and towns because the US was NOT there to be a warning against an invader.

"One bad apple can spoil the whole barrel."

ps. My grand parents were killed by Japanese when they bombed Pearl Harbor FIRST. (Hence the military presence in Japan) But I do not hold Japan or its people responsible for that. I hold a few people in the government for that. I also live in Japan and have a Japanese wife ect. I guess your family hating all Americans makes it right for the murder of my Grand Parents.... Just saying. Japanese killed them but I love these people and this country.**

Mate you don't know much about the 21st Century Military.

U.S uses troops for countries like Afganistan. If there was a war with China, or N.Korea, the use of warheads would be. N.Korea could not push S.Korea back. China would instruct N.Korea to stop, China being more smarter than N.Korea knowing that China's future of trading with the world would be over if they engaged in a war with the world power.

The U.S military is simply in Japan because its keeping it's soldiers employed. Japan pays for the soldiers upkeep. If these soldiers were back in the homeland they would be getting paid for? Nothing. AKA a waste of U.S money.

In closing I strongly think N.Korea is moving away from being hostile, still they are a threat (A threat they might blow theirself up with their tin foil rockets) but I feel they are becoming less hostile and will ingage in a new era in the near future.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

And Japan pretends being a good ally! Japan is a matured country and she will 'get over it' and showing her 'grown up' as being a good american ally! You know America needs to use 'That' to control Japan and her people!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I do understand the anger that many people feel with respect to this reported incident.

OH WHAT A SHAME!!

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Rape and Sexual Harassment are very serious charges and should be prosecuted with the "heavy hand" of the law. I hope this young lady has good counselors who are not politically motivated. She deserves more than rhetoric after such an alleged horrifying experience (one guy confessed, allegedly). All service-persons who deploy to foreign soil are thoroughly briefed and in the case of the U.S.Navy we also hold high the values of Courage-Honesty-Integrity. Unfortunately, we cannot judge character, accountability, and responsibility on our intake forms or recruiting process; not even with a MMPI screening. Okinawa is politically charged with the ongoing base and aircraft discussions. Please keep in mind that the previous alleged rape on Okinawa did not pan out and (that)) these are transients en route to another location. NO EXCUSES! However, as I stated before, "one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch" so separate the apples from oranges. This is the act of two opportunistic, immoral, and possibly ignorant young men. No matter what happened in the dark, it's still a very traumatic experience for this young woman. All support my goes to the young lady and her family.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

No one likes Foreign Troops on their home soil because of atrocities these soldiers committ. The Americans are doing so all over Afghan and Japan....

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

yuriotani, steve mimitw, fck off idiots. cnt..

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Mandatory full life sentence for these crimes is necessary, no ifs no buts. If the US can't keep these idiots under control, keep them at home.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

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