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U.S. envoy goes into damage control mode over latest Okinawa incident

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“It is incredibly unfortunate that the purported actions of the few reflect badly on thousands of young men and women here in Japan.”

And this is the way it's always going to be sadly. There will always be those that think the rules don't apply to them like this idiot in Yomitan, he needs to be made an example of and quickly.

The Ambassador should get his butt down here to Okinawa and apologize to the kid, offer compensation for his pain and suffering, bring a new TV, and toss in round trip plane tickets will full accommodations to Hawaii or some other US destination. I'm quite sure he'll be feeling better after that.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

He paid tribute to U.S. troops “away from their homes that are here for the defense of Japan and that serve so ably in maintaining peace and security in this region of the world that is so important for all of us.”

I see that Roos is trotting this out again. On other occasions, the US claims to be in Japan to protect their own interests. They tell the Chinese and Koreans they are in Japan to keep Japan from going all evil Imperialist on the rest of Asia. I suppose it all depends on their audience.

Poor Roos, an Obama fund-raiser who though he would be posted in a plum assignment in the Orient with no experience in diplomacy or foreign policy. To be sure, he probably didn't think he would spend so much time apologizing to the Japanese people.

-6 ( +5 / -10 )

I visited a nearby library where all the Japanese prefectual papers are accessable. I picked up an Okinawan paper and found a strong anti-American (U.S. Forces on Okinawa) sentiment in the paper. I have a sympathy for American servicemen there. All kinds of troubles and inconveniences come from the fact that Japan does not defend the country by themselves. My neighbor lady told me she felt a great sympathy for Ambassador Roos seeing him on TV news apologizing deeply. She further said she was surprised when she visited Okinawa finding so many fine social infrastructures built by Japan for Okinawa.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

The American have got to get out of Okinawa. . . . . . . .

1 ( +9 / -8 )

So how did this Airman end up in a US Military hospital? He should of been taken into custody by the Japanese Police. This is just one case of violating Okinawan sovereignty by the American military. When you see armed American Military Police it is another sign of their disrespect. There needs to be only one law in Japan and that is Japanese.

-2 ( +9 / -10 )

"Okinawans reacted furiously, with the local Okinawa Times daily issuing a special edition reporting on the alleged incident, while the island chain’s governor lashed out at the U.S. military."

First of all, this guy is probably an idiot. And, yes, there have been incidents over many years. But I'm sorry to say that some cases have been exploited and sensationalized for political gain.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

He shouldn't have been drinking... PERIOD...

And again Yuri, You are welcome for your freedom and prosperity... Criminals, no matter what country they are from will face justice...

So don't worry, they will face trial, according to the law, NOT MOB Rule.

-1 ( +6 / -6 )

But I'm sorry to say that some cases have been exploited and sensationalized for political gain.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has stated, "Never let a crisis go to waste." This is a specific reference to politicizing events for her benefit or that of her party or country. Okinawans are simply making those in the US who follow this policy have to deal with it from the other side. Complain to the teacher, not the student.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

This is getting out of bloody control. America needs to keep their soldiers on a leash before diplomatic relations are put in jeopardy.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

"US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton has stated, "Never let a crisis go to waste." This is a specific reference to politicizing events for her benefit or that of her party or country."

taro67: That's an interesting take on a quote I would interpret as meaning to learn from past incidents and mistakes.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

That's an interesting take on a quote I would interpret as meaning to learn from past incidents and mistakes.

Clinton was a disciple of radical Saul Alinsky who promoted some rather aggressive tactics in order to obtain political power. You should read his "Rules for Radicals" and his connections to Clinton to understand that your interpretation is wrong.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Just punish forces in Okinawa, they are the ones who seem to have the hardest time with discipline. There is no need to punish forces on mainland Japan. Obviously the forces in Okinawa are not happy but I dont blame them since its a backwater island. Pull our guys out and let the Chinese have it.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

So how did this Airman end up in a US Military hospital?

The Japanese ambulance took him there.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I admire this man's patience. Really should not be getting any easier for him.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

The diplomatic problem is with Naha and Tokyo. The vast majority of Japanese people want US troops in their country.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Pull our guys out and let the Chinese have it.

bwahahaha! thats hilarious! Second grade idea on justifying crimes by the military.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I would like to have heard the conversation between Roos and the Kadena CO.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Well with all the apologizing that these highly appointed officials have been doing lately i fear the troops are in for a rough holiday season in okinawa,I think this might even lead to another lock down.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Yuri, this airman or whatever jumped out of a third story window. He probably had serious impact injuries that cannot be treated as well in a regular Japanese clinic. Plus security in a military hospital is going to be far more effective than an Okinawan hospital where animosity by locals is likely to be high. This fellow will get his prison sentence soon enough, and probably harsher than organized crime figures usually get on the main island.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Yuri don't worry he's got a guard outside of his room and its not to keep him from leaving, but to keep his fellow airman from kicking his ass.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

A disgrace to america. This solder should be punished with an extremely long prison sentence. Unacceptable .

5 ( +6 / -1 )

"“It’s not we who are causing cracks in the Japan-U.S. security pact and alliance. It’s they who are doing it,” said Hirokazu Nakaima."

And why would you bother even starting out your argument by saying "It's not me" unless it really IS you who's at least part of the problem? Sounds pretty defensive to me.

In any case, throw the US serviceman to the wolves, I say. While Gemba and others seem to forget people here break the law ALL THE TIME, a US forces employee breaking the law is a lot more severe, and all eyes will fall on him or her -- especially if there aren't any Chinese ships in the disputed waters that day. This man, and the two who allegedly raped a woman in Okinawa, need to be given over to the Japanese courts to deal with, as much as bias and a lack of objectivity will mean they are treated far more severely than their J-counterparts would be for the same crimes.

nikku510: "A disgrace to america. This solder should be punished with an extremely long prison sentence. Unacceptable ."

I agree with the sentiment, but disagree because it would be unlawful. He should receive the maximum charges he can for each crime he committed (going out despite curfew, causing a disturbance, breaking and entering, assault), and be dishonorably discharged from the military and sent home (after serving time). He shouldn't be given some random and extremely long sentence that would exceed any someone would normally get for the same crimes.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

While Gemba and others seem to forget people here break the law ALL THE TIME

You guys should stop with this argument. You aren't converting anyone to your way of thinking by constantly bringing it up, only making Okinawans more resolved because you are ignoring the difference between citizens of a nation and guests of a nation. What the Japanese do in their own country is irrelevant to what US servicemen do in Japan.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

So how did this Airman end up in a US Military hospital? He should of been taken into custody by the Japanese Police.

Indeed YuriOtani, he should be into J-cops custody and not hiding behind the US military fence. That would send a message to US service men committing crimes in a foreign country.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

"What the Japanese do in their own country is irrelevant to what US servicemen do in Japan."

Does this apply to anyone not Japanese? Are laws applied differently?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

ignoring the difference between citizens of a nation and guests of a nation.

No, we won't because a crime is a crime whoever or where ever you come from.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

taro67: "You guys should stop with this argument. You aren't converting anyone to your way of thinking by constantly bringing it up, only making Okinawans more resolved because you are ignoring the difference between citizens of a nation and guests of a nation."

Saying that pointing out the facts only makes one small group of people 'more resolved' in their persecution towards others is merely pointing out the ignorance of said people. A 'guest' is someone who comes to stay at your home, is treated well and is not really required to do much if any work as they are your guest. US military are clearly not only protecting Japan, but keeping parts of Japan from becoming China at this very moment and have been for a long time. They are ready to go to war and die for Japan, which a house guest is not really required to do. What's more they are doing what the Japanese military cannot simply by BEING there. So get off the high-horse by insinuating that US military are 'guests' in this nation -- the minute your 'guest' left Japan would be screaming for them to come back and hold up the walls for them, since they cannot keep their own house to begin with.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

GET OFF THE ISLAND. YANKS GO HOME. Continual apologies and excuses is not going to stop the attacks of any kind. The Band-Aide approach of trying to smooth things over needs to stop. Load 'em up on the Ospreys, and fly somewhere else, if they will make it.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

YuriOtani: "This is just one case of violating Okinawan sovereignty by the American military. "

Much as you vacillate between support of Japan in general one moment and then claim Okinawa is some sort of independent body (being screwed by the government) the next, Okinawa is not a 'sovereign' state. Japanese sovereignty, since Okinawa belongs to and is ruled by Japan, would be more apt, and more legally correct.

I agree with the sentiment that the man should be remanded to local police custody, but the fact remains the two nations have a pact on how to deal with such things, and it is up to the US military to hand over the man or not. I have no doubt they may, AFTER he receives medical treatment. Had he been initially remanded into local police custody there is no telling whether or not the man would have received proper medical treatment. Get him healed, then send him to the Japanese authorities for trial and incarceration if found guilty.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

YuriOtani: "When you see armed American Military Police it is another sign of their disrespect."

No, it's a sign of wisdom, and while it may be unfair in some cases, I can assure you that it helps keep the mob mentality you and others embrace whenever an American service-person commits a crime at bay, and ensures he won't be lynched for crimes the Japanese commit every single day but hardly make the news (if at all). What's disrespectful is demanding your only protection from China leave entirely because of the acts of one man. The US military as a whole deserves your respect (and yours in particular, Yuri, given that you live there!) for their protection, despite the acts of very, very few.

The US military does not condone what happened, and I can guarantee you the troops, already frustrated from the curfew put on all of them from the alleged rape incident will be no more happy about THIS incident, and if the alleged assailant is every free in their presence he'll suffer... probably a lot.

-5 ( +3 / -7 )

Less than three weeks ago, a teary-eyed Roos told Okinawans he shared their “anger” after two U.S. servicemen were arrested over the alleged rape of a local woman on the island.

Roos is a very good Actor and he should go to Hollywood for new career. His tears were not crying for Victims and just soothing the local resentment. He pretended he was so moved by suffering of Victims. I am not sure that his tears can be called as Roos tears or Crocodile tears.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

noriyasan: "GET OFF THE ISLAND. YANKS GO HOME. Continual apologies and excuses is not going to stop the attacks of any kind. The Band-Aide approach of trying to smooth things over needs to stop. Load 'em up on the Ospreys, and fly somewhere else, if they will make it."

Meanwhile on the thread where it's announced Chinese ships enter the disputed waters for the 14th straight day even YuriOtani is admitting the American presence is necessary and China "should maybe take American hostages", etc. etc. In other words, you NEED them for one thing, then decry their presence when it's convenient. A lot of whiners in Okinawa do the same -- hold up "No Base No Rape" signs one day, then shake their fists and China and point to the American forces and grin the next. Can't have your cake and eat it too, my friend.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Smlth, its funny that you say the military are NOT guests in a foreign country. Then why is it that this is told to military members BY the military. Not only do they describe themselves as GUESTS in a HOST nation, they are constantly reminded that they are AMBASSADORS of America.

I dont think anybody is on a high horse here, but you may need a ladder to come down off yours.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Boo Hoo Roo's tears however genuine do not even begin to mitigate the problem of the American military occupation of Okinawa. The Marines stationed there make up much of the small amount of the foreign crime in Japan a lot of that foreign crime that is violent.

The best solution for everyone would be to give Okinawa back to the Okinawa's as Forbes writer wrote on 23 Jan. 2012 in "Give Okinawa Back to the Okinawans." The simple fact is that the Marines are not needed in Okinawa, in a local combat situation they would be useless. The website "The Okinawan Solution" notes:"A big secret is that 13,000 Marines ion Okinawa are base, logistics, and headquarter personnel."

One reason the Marine Generals love Okinawa is that a great place to relax. Nice weather, great golf.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

One reason the Marine Generals love Okinawa is that a great place to relax. Nice weather, great golf.

There is no other place like Okinawa on earth. The weather is warmer. Beaches are lovely. Air is fresh. Diet is so healthy. There are many people in Okinawa live beyond more than a century. That place is representing the longevity and

Generals are relaxed too much and they forgot about educating immature bullied boys.They show their gratitude as punches and rapes.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Foreign Minister Koichiro Gemba described the alleged incident as “inexcusable”, and said “it is outrageous that he went out at all” in light of the curfew.

“It is incredibly unfortunate that the purported actions of the few reflect badly on thousands of young men and women here in Japan.”

Isn't this typical. First a Japanese official expressing emotional outrage, but doing nothing, such as suggesting the end to America's occupation of Japan. Then a US official blaming a few bad apples when there has been a consistent pattern of abuse of the Okinawa people by the US military, including confiscation of land, pollution of the environment, violent acts such as rape, noise and death from military equipment, etc. The next incident and we'll read the same type of comments. Time for Japan to become an sovereign nation.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

crimes the Japanese commit every single day but hardly make the news (if at all).

I beg to differ. It depends on the news you are watching or reading. Im sure many of the major crimes that are commited by Okinawans on Okinawa are reported locally. Nothing really different than your Hometown Newspaper. If an outside commited a crime in your hometown, then naturally that news would be reported on the state level or national level depending on the circumstances surrounding the crime commited.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

The servicemen who are doing their jobs and not making waves in the local community do not deserve punishment or restrictions on their liberty.

On the other hand, those who seem incapable of controlling their antisocial impulses, like the idiot who got drunk and punched out a 13 year old kid, do need punishment. Because if they do that kind of thing here, they'll do it anywhere. They have to learn that it's not OK.

However, those who really deserve punishment, are the Japanese diplomats and politicians who seem to be - for one reason or another - totally incapable of representing their own people and saying "No" to their American "advisors."

It's time the Japanese diplomats told the US military to leave.

Go on, guys!

You can do it!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

A 'guest' is someone who comes to stay at your home, is treated well and is not really required to do much if any work as they are your guest.

As TheDevilsAssistant Nov. 03, 2012 - 12:08PM JST points out, even the military considers itself a guest. And one thing a guest in your home certainly does not do is assault the women in the house and beat up the children. Unless, of course, the "guest" is an arrogant jerk with a superiority complex which is how many Okinawans are beginning to think of the American presence. You can say it doesn't matter what Okinawa thinks but, in the end, it will.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Nathaw-san,

You write:

Beaches are lovely.

And so they are.

Apparently, the most beautiful beaches were in the North of the island.

I say "were" because they have apparently been used for firing practice by the US military.

Sadly, they are beaches no more.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Does this apply to anyone not Japanese? Are laws applied differently?

I specifically said US servicemen. And, yes, it does make a difference.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Athletes-san,

You make an excellent point:

I am not sure that his tears can be called as Roos tears or Crocodile tears.

So, perhaps we should call him a "Crocoroo."

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Smith Okinawa Prefecture is the legal body and not the American bases. The American military police leave their bases and go into our areas and act like they are the police. They should have zero legal authority off of their bases. You are from Canada just think what would happen if armed American troops in your home.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

GET OFF THE ISLAND. YANKS GO HOME

I don't agree with this. Japan is still paying, and will continue to pay, the price for the decisions of its leaders 60 years ago. And guess who wants to get all tough with their neighbours now? Not only Ishihara and a bunch of other third party nuisances, but the LDP led by Abe. The DPJ led by master Yoda are the only sensible people at the top.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Can't have your cake and eat it too, my friend.

So, reducing the military presence on Okinawa will totally end the Japan/US alliance? Interesting and rather mob-like. "Nice country you have there. It'd be a shame if something happened to it."

0 ( +3 / -4 )

taro67: Do Japanese criminal laws differ for US military personnel accused of crimes?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Roos is a very good Actor and he should go to Hollywood for new career.

Roos is a lawyer and Obama fundraiser who has no experience in foreign service and was given the post as a reward for raising so much money for Obama. You get what you pay for.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Do Japanese criminal laws differ for US military personnel accused of crimes?

They are certainly different than the SOFA which US servicemen fall under. That said, you are arguing about something I never said. What I said was that crimes committed by Japanese against Japanese were not relevant to the discussion of crimes committed by US servicemen against Japanese. Even the US military recognizes that, hence the SOFA.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Devil'sAssistant/Taro: they are not 'guests' in the way you and many others imply--as though they're free-loaders who've been welcomed with open arms. The Japanese who abuse the word 'guest' never ever stop to think about nor thank the fact that thanks to the YS presence Japan is safer than it would be without. The US military refers to themselves as 'guests' as a form of deference to the local community and the nation. How much cooperation would they get from insecure Okinawans if they were to bluntly point out they are helping them and protecting them, or gave them stats on how much they depend on them economically?

Devil's Assistant: I love how you say I'm wrong about how domestic crimes are not reported to the same extent then qualify it with: "depends on what you watch or read" and "it's sometimes reported locally". You prove my point: is this incident only being reported locally?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Taro: noriyasan was not talking about 'reducing' the presence at all, he was flat out screaming that all US military "GO HOME!", wasn't he? And the last thing you want, or the whining Okinawans want, is even a REDUCED presence with China knocking at their doors as they are.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Taro: bit paulinisa and I have asked you to address your comment that Japanese laws only apply to 'guests', so would you please?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

smithinjapan Nov. 03, 2012 - 01:18PM JST

So, what other terms does the US use to deceive the local population? And, you know, 67 years seems like a lot of thanks just because Okinawa is unfortunate enough to be situated in a location which the US considers "strategic" for their own purposes.

One more thing...the US might have an easier sell on the "protection" angle if they would send a few ships out to patrol the Senkakus, you know, just to send a clear message to Okinawa and China.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Taro: actually, what you said was, "You guys should stop with this argument. You aren't converting anyone to your way of thinking by constantly bringing it up, only making Okinawans more resolved because you are ignoring the difference between citizens of a nation and guests of a nation. What the Japanese do in their own country is irrelevant to what US servicemen do in Japan."

You didn't say it's irrelevant to the discussion, you said it's irrelevant to the actions that one side commits, but by saying so you yourself are contrasting, and hence proving the relevancy of bringing up the point in the first place. There's nothing irrelevant about pointing out hypocrisy.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

smithinjapanNov. 03, 2012 - 01:26PM JST

You're just arguing for arguing sake. The last sentence clarified "guests" from the previous statement. Even you should be able to understand that.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Taro: you seem to have a selective memory. The US only recently had carriers deployed not far off, and has been discussing military drills with Japan in response to Incrwased tensions and China sending ships in the disputed waters. They are also going above and beyond in trying to get the two nations to work PEACEFULLY on the issue, while reiterating that the Senkakus fall under the US/Japan alliance pact and if push came to shove they would fight with Japan.

How quickly we forget, but like I said, you guys never thank, only complain.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Taro: "So, what other terms does the US use to deceive the local population? And, you know, 67 years seems like a lot of thanks just because Okinawa is unfortunate enough to be situated in a location which the US considers "strategic" for their own purposes." Much like many of the Okinawans who built around the bases to profit from them now cry about noise and danger due to proximity.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Taro: "You're just arguing for arguing sake. The last sentence clarified "guests" from the previous statement. Even you should be able to understand that."

What are you talking about? The paste quoting you was your FIRST comment on the thread, before you're justification for the a use of the word 'guest'.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

smithinjapan and taro67, please do not address each other any further on this thread, since all you are doing is bickering.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

YuriOtani: "Smith Okinawa Prefecture is the legal body and not the American bases. The American military police leave their bases and go into our areas and act like they are the police. They should have zero legal authority off of their bases. You are from Canada just think what would happen if armed American troops in your home."

Okinawa is indeed the legal body in areas outside the US bases, but are not a sovereign state. That point aside, since you bring it up, if American troops committed a crime on Canadian soil they would be held by local authorities until being remanded to the proper US authorities, likely MPs. Depending on the crime they might later be handed over to the Canadian justice system for trial, as has happened in Jaoan before. But keep in mind the agreements between Canada and the US and Japan and the US differ in many respects, and it may not always fit neatly into a simple comparison.

Back to your comment, though, the US MPs handling US military matters is part if the package, Yuri. It stinks at times, and I've already said once he gets treatment he should face Japanese justice, but my point to your original comment is that with you and other Okinawans in particular demanding blood for an assault, the man needs to first be given treatment for his injuries in a more objective environment, then assured a fair trial and not a witch hunt.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

The same mindless rhetoric

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I recall during Operation Tomodachi that the US military and Japan working together during the worst natural disaster in history in order to rescue many. I also recall America working overtime to persuade a few in the Kan Administration that greater precautions were needed in order to protect all within Japan. While many Ambassadors left Japan during that tragic hour (along with non-essential personnel) America STAYED working along side and helping Japan. Nothing to be teary-eyed about the US-Japan alliance is strong. Remember 3/11.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

What I am more interested in is how this guy was allowed out in the first place.

You would think, that when implementing a curfew, the American Military in Japan would do something to check that those on base are, actually, sticking to it.

Sadly by this guy being out and drinking and beating up teens, It shows that the curfew is merely a gesture which the Americans have no intention of strictly implementing, and not a sincere apology and disciplinary procedure for all American troops. We all knew this would not be a permanent measure, but to have soldiers out, and doing this kind of stuff when everything is so up in the air at the moment speaks mountains.

However, its not just this guy who is to blame. Where is his boss, and his co-workers, who probably knew he was out after curfew and yet did nothing about it? These people are equally responsible, which Is why I don't buy into this whole "Its only 1 guy who is ruining it for everyone" stuff.

I am not from Okinawa, so I can not speak on behalf of the Okinawan people, but I would imagine this is what infuriates the locals the most, more than the crime itself.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Too much focus on security and damage control. America should have a Friendship Day.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

kimuzukashiiiii-san,

What I am more interested in is how this guy was allowed out in the first place.

You would think, that when implementing a curfew, the American Military in Japan would do something to check that those on base are, actually, sticking to it.

There is a simple answer to this, apparently the guy lived off base.

Which means, as far as I know (and I'm sure if I'm wrong, there will be several people happy to correct me) that he is married, and probably married to an Okinawan.

Poor girl!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Hang in there Roos! I feel terrible for this man, imagine having to aplologize like this, twice in a month? They don't pay him enough, and definitley has earned a promotion. The young men need more leadership in there lives too. What type of emersion and cultural programs are the running the personel through? i know that both incidents are both reckless and harmful to our relationship with Japan, but we must review how we are aclimatizing our servicemen and women to Japan as well.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I mean just look at the pictures! The whiners are holding up "no fly zone" banners over a guy who was on the ground and committed assault using his hands! If ever you needed examples of witch hunting and misdirected anger, there you go!

-6 ( +0 / -6 )

The whole world all civilized country shall never deserved to live under US servicemn bullying except Japan because she has nothing to choose!

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Too much stress and negativity. Japan and America are strong!. Continue to remain in solidarity. I call for a Friendship Day! Invite ALL too. America stayed during 3/11 and was the first on the scene when many left. Anyone who sacrifices themselves to rescue others is okay in my book. The 24-year-old was probably just afraid as the teen. America and Japan should let the teen and the 24-year-old meet face to face and have the 24-year-old apologize, pay for damages, and move on. Japan and America are strong. Nothing wrong with the alliance.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Shouldn't the bar/Izakaya owner be cited, I mean isn't he responsible for getting the guy drunk, possibly setting him up for this.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Bertiewoozer ...

What I am more interested in is how this guy was allowed out in the first place. You would think, that when implementing a curfew, the American Military in Japan would do something to check that those on base are, actually, sticking to it. There is a simple answer to this, apparently the guy lived off base. Which means, as far as I know (and I'm sure if I'm wrong, there will be several people happy to correct me) that he is married, and probably married to an Okinawan.Poor girl!

I read (elsewhere) that he was from the Kadena base? And If he was living offbase, surely he would not be being treated in the base hospital? Usually people are only taken to a military hospital first if they are living onbase.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Shouldn't the bar/Izakaya owner be cited, I mean isn't he responsible for getting the guy drunk, possibly setting him up for this.

He told the guy to go home before 11pm, in line with the curfew.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The Okinawa people are not responsible for enforcing American military policy. My thoughts is how far away did this guy live from the bar and was it on the 3rd floor? Perhaps he entered the Apartment by mistake? I would need to do a proper investigation. Think there is more to the story than written. Falling from the 3rd floor has to be bad lucky he was not killed.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

He probably thought the curfew did not apply to him if he was living off-base. It is no excuse ofcourse, he is still responsible for himself.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Japan cant affording to defend her soil at all times, thats the main reason why nobody behaves and gives a respect to the Okianwa inhabitants and local government! So these misconducts shall never ends! The curfew never works, instead it produced some violence and frustrated US servicemen of misbehaviour!

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

realdoll-san,

You write:

Shouldn't the bar/Izakaya owner be cited, I mean isn't he responsible for getting the guy drunk, possibly setting him up for this.

Under US laws, IN THE UNITED STATES, the bar/izakaya owner would be responsible.

This incident took place IN JAPAN, where it is believed that the drinker has responsibility.

Whether you agree with this or not is irrelevant (got nuffink' to do wiv it).

This maniac was drinking at a bar OFF BASE (that is in Okinawa).

A person who doesn't know when to stop shouldn't be drinking alcohol in the first place.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

YuriOtani-san,

Perhaps he entered the Apartment by mistake?

And perhaps he punched out a 13 year old kid by mistake, and then kicked in the TV by mistake?

He certainly made a mistake when he did a "Superman" out of a 3rd floor window!

3 ( +4 / -1 )

kimu: He will be taken to a US military hospital/clinic for treatment regardless of where he lives (and yes, he did live off base).

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Please allow me to demonstrate what a well behaved guest does in such a situation.

I am very sorry for this very bad behaviour by one of the American soldiers. He should be severely punished but only after he is required to apologize to the boy and pay for the television. I am sorry that an Ambassador has so little trust in the soldier and his superiors that he cannot trust him to do this on his own. I am sorry that so many feel this brutish and abusive behaiour is a good reason to debate politics. It was a case of very bad behavior, and sadly it appears to be happening way too much. I will understand if Okinawa and Japan ask the US Marines to vacate the base, they really should not be on that island that is a special place. There is plenty of room on the main land for them. Again, I am very sorry for this bad behaviour.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

You know, with this idiot who got drunk and threw a hissy fit, breaking into an apartment, punching out a 13 year old boy, kicking in a TV and jumping out of a 3rd floor window, you see a microcosm of what is happening as a whole in Okinawa.

The US government totally ignores the feelings of Okinawans, takes over 20 percent of the land with bulldozers, forcing people out of their houses at the point of a gun (believe me, it happened), destroying sacred sites (the equivalent of famous churches and cathedrals in US culture) and using scenes of natural beauty FOR TARGET PRACTICE.

They are destroying areas, not only of great natural beauty, but where there are literally HUNDREDS of endangered animal and plant species.

It's kind of like taking pot shots at the Statue of Liberty, or using the Grand Canyon as a huge garbage pit.

And, like the idiot who broke into the apartment, the US government just puts pressure on the Japanese government, forcing them to comply. Neither thinks of ASKING the people who live here, the Okinawans.

You would think that would be a small politeness.

The crazy US serviceman IGNORED the feelings of the bar owner and the people living on the 3rd floor of the apartment building, just as the US and Japanese governments IGNORE the feelings of the Okinawans in Okinawa.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Anyways, has there been anything extra passed down to add to the 2300-0500 curfew because of this incident?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

What I am more interested in is how this guy was allowed out in the first place. You would think, that when implementing a curfew, the American Military in Japan would do something to check that those on base are, actually, sticking to it. There is a simple answer to this, apparently the guy lived off base. Which means, as far as I know (and I'm sure if I'm wrong, there will be several people happy to correct me) that he is married, and probably married to an Okinawan.Poor girl!

He probably lived on base and left base before the curfew hours. This is the problem with enforcing curfews. Once the service member leaves base the military has no way of tracking him and making sure he returns to base. Only the okinawan police can do that since they have sole jurisdiction. Since they won't do that, curfew violators will only get caught if they try to re-enter the base during curfew hours which gives them incentive to stay out all night and come after the curfew to avoid getting in trouble. See how the curfew thing backfires? Accidental violators must stay off base until the curfew is over or face punishment. This would be less likely if they had a shore patrol.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

just-a-bigguy: "The whole world all civilized country shall never deserved to live under US servicemn bullying except Japan because she has nothing to choose!"

Newsflash: The US have plenty of bases and military presence in South Korea as well, and while there are incidents there that lead to outrage, they seem to get a long a whole lot better as the South Koreans acknowledge the US presence is a deterrent against China and NK. Japan would do well to acknowledge the same, but instead the people with nothing to do, and who have profited from the bases, need to misdirect their anger at SOMEONE, so they blame those who help them due to the acts of a few.

Bertie: "The US government totally ignores the feelings of Okinawans, takes over 20 percent of the land with bulldozers, forcing people out of their houses at the point of a gun (believe me, it happened)"

Where is your proof on the last part, Bertie? And just to correct you, the US occupied swaths of land after the war, and Okinawans built AROUND it! If the US bulldozed anything it was rubble, and with the Japanese government's approval.

"...destroying sacred sites (the equivalent of famous churches and cathedrals in US culture) and using scenes of natural beauty FOR TARGET PRACTICE."

PLEASE don't suggest the US military destroy sacred or natural places when all around this nation you see damn projects destroying the eco-system, cemented mountains and beaches, dirt parks everywhere, archeological discoveries dug up, quickly photographed, then paved over for new apartment buildings that will last 40 years, the destruction of most forests for the aforementioned purposes and so certain -- ahem -- Tokyo politicians can 'destroy pollen!', etc.

YuriOtani: "The Okinawa people are not responsible for enforcing American military policy."

That's correct. So why is it your first comment on this thread demanded a reason as to why the US military police got involved when it should have been Okinawans? Kind of a contradiction, no?

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

darknuts: "He probably lived on base and left base before the curfew hours. This is the problem with enforcing curfews."

You're probably right, and the result is likely going to be a futile effort on the part of the US military to further crack down and enforce said curfew. These individuals screw everything up for the honest, hard working men and women who don't do anything wrong but have to suffer the consequences all the same. And on top of that they get spurned and spit on by the people they are here to protect.

TheDevil'sAssistant: "Anyways, has there been anything extra passed down to add to the 2300-0500 curfew because of this incident?"

I'm not sure what they could really do, save some punch in, punch out system if they go off-base, but even then there are ways around it (get a friend to punch you back in, etc.). Expanding the curfew would only result in further incidents, in all probability, and would punish those not responsible instead of punishing the guilty. I would think MPs and other authority figures might do more to try and enforce the current curfew, but that would be difficult.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I'm not sure what they could really do

Thats what I was thinking too. But I do wonder whats in the works when most of the military report for work on Monday will be. Mass bitch-out sessions by commanding Officers, etc.

I and I do hope, nothing stupid happens on Okinawa on Saturday night. If my world clock is right, it early evening in Japan right now?

Keeping my fingers crossed.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Bertie: "Under US laws, IN THE UNITED STATES, the bar/izakaya owner would be responsible. This incident took place IN JAPAN, where it is believed that the drinker has responsibility."

Actually, the laws changed in Japan three years back or so. If a driver, for example, gets in an accident after drinking at a bar/restaurant/izakaya the owner of the place in question can be charged, so long as it can be proved where the person was drinking. A number of businesses suffered at first from this new law, but it seems since it's never enforced (that we hear of) most people have forgotten and going back to the regular drinking and driving past-time that plagues this nation so much. One would assume this incident could fall under the same law, though of course it does not involve drinking and driving. Japanese establishments need to be given the power, and the education, on when to cut a person off. True, you'd see the customer get a lot more upset and violent than this serviceman, but it's got to start now and expand, and be vehemently backed up by police.

"And perhaps he punched out a 13 year old kid by mistake, and then kicked in the TV by mistake? He certainly made a mistake when he did a "Superman" out of a 3rd floor window!"

Despite your condescending attitude towards Yuri's comment, it's possible she's correct; the fool may well have been to drunk to know where he was going and entered the apartment. After that no doubt he did the rest of his own volition, but when you're blind drunk taking a wrong turn, going to the wrong door, etc. is perfectly believable. It's absolutely no excuse for what he did, but like Yuri suggested might have happened, he MAY have just make a drunken, stupid mistake on his way 'home'.

"The crazy US serviceman IGNORED the feelings of the bar owner and the people living on the 3rd floor of the apartment building,"

The guy was out of his mind drunk! He didn't willfully ignore someone as though he knew what was happening -- he acted under the influence. HUGE difference that you are unwilling to see.

"...just as the US and Japanese governments IGNORE the feelings of the Okinawans in Okinawa."

Bertie, you clearly just see what you want to see, which is the problem with a lot of people in Okinawa (not saying you're there if you're not). Again -- look at the pics under the story. What does a "No Fly Zone" and pictures of Ospreys have to do with a guy who skipped curfew, got drunk, and assaulted a kid? NOTHING! But they're using the incident to misdirect their anger, much as you are, for if the US and Japanese government TRULY did not care, Gemba would have just done the Japanese "shou ga nai, ne!" and the US government would shrug and say it's the cost of protecting Okinawa. Instead they have imposed curfews after the alleged rape incident, and are now fuming over this incident and thinking of what further measures they can take to both assuage the (misdirected) public anger, and to punish not only the guilty, but the military as a whole. Stop saying they are doing nothing and Okinawans are victims when neither are true.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

CrisGerSan: "I will understand if Okinawa and Japan ask the US Marines to vacate the base, they really should not be on that island that is a special place. There is plenty of room on the main land for them. Again, I am very sorry for this bad behaviour."

Aside from this last point you're pretty spot-on, I'd say. Yeah, there's a lot of room for them on the mainland here and there, especially if they listened to that nut-bag Nakaima and split up into small groups all over the place (and left Okinawa alone!), but the fact remains that Okinawa, which the US rightfully gave back in the 70s, remains the most strategically important in terms of location. Furthermore, without their presence right there, right now, China would have a greater chance of taking the islands both in the dispute and perhaps some of the Western islands in the Yaeyama island chain.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

TheDevil'sAssistant: It is indeed early evening here now.

"Thats what I was thinking too. But I do wonder whats in the works when most of the military report for work on Monday will be. Mass bitch-out sessions by commanding Officers, etc."

I'm sure they'll do something, including a personal apology (if not already offered) to the boy and obviously a new TV and other recompense (won't help with the trauma and the potential hatred it'll breed in the boy, but not sure what else they can do there, either), but like you not sure what. It's entirely possible that any plans to relocate some of the troops will be sped up, but I've no clue.

My fingers are crossed as well. There have been too many incidents of late, and while China is threatening Japan and the US presence is more necessary than ever since just after WWII, there's no excuse for what's happening. The old axiom "Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em" just doesn't cover it.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I am not sure why we here even try to argue about this one way or another since none of us are in any position to make anything happen. Virtual shouting at each other on this site accomplishes nothing but stoking anger to those involved in the argument. The fact of the matter is this: He will get punished one way or another and the status quo will be maintained. And all this will die down eventually until the next incident happens to cause the whole thing to blow up again. Rinse repeat.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

smithinjapan-san,

You wanted a source.

Here you go:

http://www.japanfocus.org/-Steve-Rabson/3682

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

smithinjapan-san,

he MAY have just make a drunken, stupid mistake on his way 'home'.

Yes, exiting the bar on the ground (1st) floor, mistakingly thinking he was in a sub-basement, he went up to the third floor.

Just a little far-fetched, but if it helps to think of it that way, go ahead.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

smithinjapan,

If the serviceman in question was as drunk as you describe, even if he had committed no act of violence or destruction of property, he should be disciplined.

Anyone who gets that drunk has something very wrong with them, a servicemen in a foreign country, who knows that ALL eyes are on the US military, just waiting for someone to do something like this, doubly so. He certainly shouldn't be trusted with weapons of any kind.

Supposing he'd been armed?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Anyone who gets that drunk has something very wrong with them

Japanese people get "that" drunk all the time. Probably not the best choice of words.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

People should really watch their behaviour when they're in another country. We're living in an intense time. What a person does represents its country and can be raisen to a political level. Seems that more and more countries are having this problem now. Neigher bad behavious nor stereotyping is helping world peace.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

One thing for sure. This serviceman's career in the military is over. When the Japanese police are finished with him, assuming they want jurisdiction he will be turned back over to the US Military and dealt with in a timely manner. The least that will happen to him is a less than honorable discharge from the Air Force. This will follow him for the rest of his life, and will have both financial and personal consequences fir him.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

mdepaiva, the Japanese Police are not asking for custody of the young man. He is at Camp Lester Naval hospital. It is up to the USAF to determine this young mans future.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The building has an Izakaya on the first floor and the third floor has an apartment. He probably just opened the gate and went right up. Okinawans may be at fault for some of this, with getting him drunk the not having enough security. Just saying....

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

@Schopenhauer

I spoke to some people, and some of us here would really appreciate it, if you would Stop abusing that name. He was a highly intelligent realistic philosopher who judged wisely and saw people for what they are. In other words: Everything you are not…

@TheDevilsAssistantNov. 03, 2012 - 12:08PM JST

“Smlth, its funny that you say the military are NOT guests in a foreign country. Then why is it that this is told to military members BY the military. Not only do they describe themselves as GUESTS in a HOST nation, they are constantly reminded that they are AMBASSADORS of America. I dont think anybody is on a high horse here, but you may need a ladder to come down off yours.”

It is really too hard to write an adequate response to your comment that would not be censored and rightly so…. So, just this: The Americans are not guests. Soldiers of an occupying army never are. And it is one of the necessary requirements to become a soldier in the first place, to be actually able to believe what you are told to believe. Normal human beings usually do not…. But, where you are correct is this: Only the people with the biggest guns are allowed to sit on a high horse. That has been the American culture from the very beginning, right?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Mathew Simon,

Japanese people get "that" drunk all the time.

Maybe I need to get out more!

Actually, even walking through Susukino or Kokusai Dori at 11PM or later, it's rare to see someone as paralytic as this guy appears to have been.

Lots of people are "merry" but that's not the same thing.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

mdepaiva-san,

The least that will happen to him is a less than honorable discharge from the Air Force. This will follow him for the rest of his life, and will have both financial and personal consequences for him.

Except that if he is married to a local girl, it won't make the slightest bit of difference.

Even if he couldn't spell to save his life, has never used a past participle or an adverb in his life and hasn't a clue where to use "don't" and where to use "doesn't," he'll be able to get a job as an English "teacher," no questions asked.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I wonder why there is this recurring theme that if the US military leave, the Chinese will move in?

Is this the propaganda you are being fed?

Is this the line you are being given to convince Okinawans you need to be here?

For one thing, in its history, Okinawa and China had a good relationship, a much better one than the one Okinawa had with mainland Japan. And for another, China is a trading country. Without trade they would collapse. A Chinese invasion of Okinawa would lose them most of their international trade.

China is not the enemy.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

“It is incredibly unfortunate that the purported actions of the few reflect badly on thousands of young men and women here in Japan.”

Syoganai....there have been so many rapes and untoward incidence caused by the US military men and personnel ever since....I am sure some have not even been reported ....... that's a natural reaction Mr. John Ross from Okinawans. Your US military put a rotten egg in the corp. You have to bear the consequences as the ambassador and no need for damaged control mode. When in Rome do what Romans do. I have lived in US for many moons and I have to follow and obey every single rules and ways americans demand for foreign residence. I even suffer and bear racial discrimination. I just cannot understand why americans think they are superior and can do anything in any asian countries just because they are white. Even in your former bases in the Philippines, there have been lots of rapes and bar brawsl with the locals by your military personnels. My ichi yen thoughts.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

bajhista65,

I sympathise with you.

What you're talking about is known as double standards.

It's been a problem with Americans for a long time, especially in the Southern States.

I think they inherited it from us (the British).

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Bertie: "Yes, exiting the bar on the ground (1st) floor, mistakingly thinking he was in a sub-basement, he went up to the third floor. Just a little far-fetched, but if it helps to think of it that way, go ahead."

Bertie, I've gone into an underground parking lot to hop in my friend's car and found a dead drunk Japanese guy two floors down lying in the stair well who thought he was in the train station a good kilometer in the opposite direction. I myself after a night of heavy drinking (I did not refuse the constant refills people kept pouring me, which I very much regretted later) went to the wrong apartment building (but the third floor, as I live on the third floor in MY building) and was pounding on the door after my key wouldn't fit in the lock. Fortunately, in that building that room and the room next to it were empty. After that I more or less stopped drinking because I realized that when you are dead drunk like that you can make mistakes that can cost you a lot. Now the things the US serviceman did after that, I have no doubt were intentional. Until then, my point in backing up Yuri (I think it was) is that you do not know what happened leading up to the assault.

"If the serviceman in question was as drunk as you describe, even if he had committed no act of violence or destruction of property, he should be disciplined."

I never said he shouldn't be disciplined. In fact, I have stated quite clearly that not only SHOULD be he disciplined, but that he should be tried in a Japanese court of law -- stop pretending, Bertie, that questioning certain elements of incident means a person is defending the assailant.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

bajhista65: "Syoganai....there have been so many rapes and untoward incidence caused by the US military men and personnel ever since."

Really? How many, exactly, since you seem to know? And while you're giving us your stats, please give us the stats on rapes committed by Japanese, and give us a percentile based on population of both foreigners and Japanese in Okinawa. It's probably something like 97% Japanese in Okinawa, and 3% foreigners in terms of population, and 99.9% of rapes committed by Japanese. But I'll wait for you to give us the stats since you know.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Bertie: "I wonder why there is this recurring theme that if the US military leave, the Chinese will move in?"

Because they are far more likely to grab a few of the islands without Japan being propped up and supported by the US military. Easy question.

"Maybe I need to get out more! Actually, even walking through Susukino or Kokusai Dori at 11PM or later, it's rare to see someone as paralytic as this guy appears to have been. Lots of people are "merry" but that's not the same thing."

I would be truly surprised if I believed you. Or maybe you just don't notice. But trust me, any time enkai season hits -- which is pretty much all the time for one reason or another, but particularly Bon Enkai season, hanami, and the end of the fiscal year -- you can see blind drunk people EVERYWHERE. Don't you read all those stories about the drunkards falling on the tracks at train stations after drinking parties? All the blood-red faced ojisan screaming at others before popping in the convenience stores to buy more One-Cup Ozeki, which is sold to them despite they fact they can barely walk?

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I think he has a drinking problem.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I just spent 30 minutes reading all this and I think my head is going to explode! Still, no one has a solution!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Tom, the solutions is easy (you must be an undecided voter). Reduce the footprint on Okinawa, get rid of 50% of the troops and put them in South Korea or make some agreement with the PI to move them there if they are really needed. Something tells me if the GOJ stopped their host nation support, we'd find that all of a sudden, the troops aren't that important afterall.. and they'd be moved out.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Not excusing the serviceman's actions in any way, but I have a question: Why is a "pub" serving alcohol to servicemen after curfew? (and "early Friday morning" would definitely qualify as "after curfew") Seems to me that this pub owner contributed to the incident by continuing to sell alcohol to the serviceman after he was supposed to.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

The Americans are not guests.

volland. Why are you denying what the military teaches the service member, and thier dependents?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Fadamor Nov. 05, 2012 - 10:19PM JST Seems to me that this pub owner contributed to the incident by continuing to sell alcohol to the serviceman after he was supposed to.

I really don't know if you ever been to a busy pub. If you have 100 people in the late hours, do you check everyone of them to see if they are servicemen violating the curfew? It's not up to them. These servicemen or women are adults and they should know the rules. Also, how would the bartender know if person is drunk or not when you have 10 or 20 people asking for drinks at a same time. Sometimes the bartender is extremely busy and has no time to evaluate if customer is drunk or not. They just do their job.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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