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U.S. court clears way for extradition to Japan of Ghosn's accused escape plotters

48 Comments
By Nate Raymond

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48 Comments
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Lol thats actually true, but only if the person isnt coming out of thebox anymore

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The nissan case is a very nonsense case.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Only a very backward and out of touch country would penalise emigration inside of a nice black box.

Absolutely nothing wrong with that!

The World will know Japan bans such common practices and laugh at this mockery.

Japan is doomed.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@HimariYamada Today  04:12 pm JST

I feel soo sorry for the Taylors.

But cannot stop laughing 'cause that "trap" song is actually funny.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Dear Michael Taylor and Peter Taylor,

Soon you be in Japan. I hope you enjoy your flight to Tokyo. The Tokyo prosecutors are very eager to talk to you. For you flight to Tokyo, I wrote a song for both of you. I hope you enjoy it:

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time (Don't do it) (Hurry up)

Keep your eye on the sparrow when the going gets narrow

Don't mess with Japan (Don't do it) Don't do it

Don't roll the dice if you can't pay the price, no, no (Don't do it), don't do it

Don't run your feet down no dead end street, no, no (Don't do it) (Hurry up)

Just keep your eye on the sparrow when the going gets narrow

Don't mess with Japan (Don't do it) Don't do it(Don't do it) Don't do it!

Next on the list Mrs Ghson

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

From what I have read and seen, the Taylors have not violated any Japanese laws, so why extradite them?

Violation of the law is what the court determines during a trial. They were extradited to stand trial

5 ( +6 / -1 )

@P. SmithToday 10:46 am JST

I would be all for these two standing trial if the system weren’t rigged against them. That’s the real issue.

P. Smith, what kind of defenses can these two seriously make if they aren't in a "rigged system"? At this point, I don't think it's feasible to argue that they didn't do what was accused of them, so there's no significant dispute of fact.

There's no real reason for the Japanese (or any) court to side with their interpretation of the law either.

And what room is there for mercy for two defendants whose basic defense was "Nyah, nyah, nyah, your law doesn't cover this. Our law does, but yours doesn't, so Ha!" Sure, you can get off if the judge agrees with you, but if he doesn't this is not going to go well for you, is it?

As the American system has proved, no one will decide these two jokers don't need detention or can be bailed, so that isn't a factor in their concrete case. You can't say they don't know what they are being charged with either, since that was only the topic in front of the US court for the previous half year or so. Besides, they effectively claimed to be so familiar with the law that they know it better than the prosecutor. It's a bit late to be playing weak.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

From what I have read and seen, the Taylors have not violated any Japanese laws, so why extradite them? if no crime or laws have been broken, jog on Japan would be my statement, but they seem to be thrown under the bus by the US government, why? is this a politicle stunt of some sort?

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Good news. Now get The Godfather and his wife and son.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

I read the 22 page SEC account mentioned above.

The number of times one can read "Ghosn and his subordinates" without mentioning the names tells everything.

Knowing Japan, those subordinates have always answered yes to Goshn saying it was lawful to compensate later and elsewhere.

How could Goshn answer that question if not a lawyer and does not read Japanese ?

It says Kelly has backdated letters many times. If he can do that, why another Japanese could no do that to frame them, because that's what they have been asserting from day one.

It is so elaborate and never audited that it is so mind blowing.

How could Goshn secure any future money for himself if not audited one day ?

What would be the point of getting 90 millions $ knowing he would retire many years later.

Framing has not been probed as he says.

By the way, he could not defend himself against US law since he was held hostage in Japan.

There is no mention of Goshn denial to have signed electronic forms or letters. How that not be taken into account ?

Justice has not been duly sought. Not saying the men are not guilty, guilt is all given to the foreign guys.

(Who is the Nissan subordinate 1 in that SEC story ?)

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

Personally, it would have been better to leave Ghosn in Japan as he has the resources to fight it out and get the foreign media attention, exposing to the world the flaws and inadequacies. 

Ghosn did the wise thing to do.

A trial in Japan would take so many years, he would probably die before getting sentenced.

At the time of his escape there were no trial date, it would be 2023~ at least. Add 5~10 years of judicial procedures... and that's the end of your career.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

In the case of extradition those two should be judged upon the case of helping a person who is under a criminal investigation flee Japan illegally. Nothing more, nothing less. And it should not matter whether that person was international CEO or a person who was putting 200¥ cafe late in 100¥ coffee cup in konbini. However, the big question is will the justice system be objective in this case and judge them the same way if in the music gear case were someone different than Ghosn.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

, the gambled and got the bad end of the deal. 

Actually they might have gotten a good deal. Seven figure payment for their services and they won't do much time.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Of course not. This is a ridiculous question.

If you insult Kim Jung In in NK and they throw you in the slammer they will let you know what you are there for. Then it sounds like the criminal system is more fair in NK

In the US, you cannot be held for almost a month without knowing the charges against you.

Personal experience of this in Japan?

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@P. Smith

All of these issues with the Japanese justice system are well known and the Taylors must've known about them while they were planning/being consulted about getting Ghosn out. Why take the risk? As I've said before, the gambled and got the bad end of the deal. Now they have to deal with being smugglers in Japanese court.

Personally, it would have been better to leave Ghosn in Japan as he has the resources to fight it out and get the foreign media attention, exposing to the world the flaws and inadequacies. There would be a better chance of being an impetus of change (though still not likely). His running away has reduced that to nil.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

The entire point of a trial is to determine if the actions were illegal and then to administer justice. When the system is rigged in favor of the government,

I guess that's shaky.

We can't just say the system is rigged and not try offenders.

6 ( +8 / -2 )

If they dont want to be tried they shouldnt have done it.

This is shaky ground as it allows the police and prosecutors to point the finger at anyone and then that person gets to fight the government on unfair terms.

Pointing a finger at anyone is another matter

Nothing is shaky in this particular instance.

They knowingly and deliberately went to another country to spirit out somebody, most probably knowing fully well whats in store for them if caught

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Your refusal to even acknowledge the flaws in Japan’s “justice” system is stunning.

Sound like the North Korean criminal system is better. Do you agree?

4 ( +7 / -3 )

When the system is rigged in favor of the government

I hear there is the same problem in the USA. Just ask Edwin Fujinaga dealing with the US feds

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I would be all for these two standing trial if the system weren’t rigged against them. That’s the real issue.

Even if this is true i would be for the two standing trial.

If they dont want to be tried they shouldnt have done it.

4 ( +7 / -3 )

Carlos Ghosn is also wanted in France? And don't forget the US is part of the legal "corruption" since they would agree to extradite Ghosn as well. It would seem most of the developed world would.

10 ( +13 / -3 )

You come to Japan?

You follow Japanese laws and rules!

You get hired as CEO for Japanese company, making millions each year. You should expect the consequences if you break the laws.

Fun fact:

I Don't come to your country, break the laws, then run away with the excuse Ghosn is giving. We should allow him to write the laws too. Otherwise not Fair for Foreigner.

5 ( +14 / -9 )

Japan has no bail system, which means no laws (punishment) for those who jump bail. He saw a loophole and made use of it to expose Japan and its corrupt justice system. Those who helped him shouldn't have to pay the price for Japan to save face. This whole thing will end badly for Japan because those that are extradited would lawyer up and the world media would there to show the real japanese justice system. Just give it up already.

Agreed, how silly can the US prosecutors get? They literally didn't commit any crime and this is all so that the Japanese people can save face and score a win over the "foreigner". Us expats have to make sure there are no more wins over us.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

Mr. Nada participated in discussions about Nissan’s efforts to bring criminal charges — never realized — against Mr. Ghosn and his family in Brazil. Additionally, he approved the final wording of a settlement between Nissan and the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission on Mr. Ghosn’s compensation; he was also a key witness in the case.

src: https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/international-automotive-scene/232889-hari-nada-how-high-ranking-nissan-executive-escaped-his-own-trap.html

Looks to me that Mr. Nada is not to be trusted as a witness, not in the U.S. , neither in Japan.

He had a morbid plan to destroy Ghosn, he hacked Ghosn mail account, he is accountable for approving Ghosn compensation, ...yet he will never be prosecuted.

They should review that US Securities and Exchange Commission indictment against Ghosn and Kelly.

Maybe it will have a different outcome with the info we have now.

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

All this because insiders at Nissan colluded with central government to oust Ghosn.

How embarrassing for Japan.

Agreed, Japan embarrassing itself in front of the world again.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

And thanks to @M3M3M3.

Im actually clueless regarding the issue, and, in any case, always glad when someone make factual posts

3 ( +6 / -3 )

But i do really agree that Japan's justice system needs to be updated, at least

Seems to me that the system relies too much on the need for the accused to confess to the charges.

And that if the accused did confess and show contrition will get off lightly. Probably the same in other countries but more so here

1 ( +4 / -3 )

@Uncle BennyT Today 09:00 am JST

beautiful writing. too bad that Japanese will just pass through your comment as fast as they can and forget it at midle reading.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Japan doesn't have a settlement mechanism allowing white collar criminals to avoid trial.

Now that's archaic

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

@Uncle Benny

Someone please answer this question for me - How did Ghosn engage in financial wrongdoing and understate his compensation at Nissan?

You can find the answers to most of your questions in the US Securities and Exchange Commission indictment against Ghosn and Kelly. Ghosn settled these SEC charges by agreeing to pay $1 million and accepting a 10 year director ban. Unlike America, Japan doesn't have a settlement mechanism allowing white collar criminals to avoid trial.

https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2019/comp24606.pdf

That said, the compensation reporting charge is now the least serious accusation Ghosn faces in Japan. The alleged kickbacks from Suhail Bahwan to Ghosn's shell companies are far more serious.

17 ( +22 / -5 )

"Ghosn was awaiting trial on charges that he engaged in financial wrongdoing, including by understating his compensation in Nissan's financial statements. "

Someone please answer this question for me - How did Ghosn engage in financial wrongdoing and understate his compensation at Nissan?

Isn't Nissan a multinational public traded corporation?

Doesn't Nissan have a Board of Directors?

Isn't Nissan audited annually by a third party accounting firm?

Isn't what Ghosn is 'ACCUSED' of having committed an 'CORPORATE' issue and should have been addressed internally by Nissan's Board of Directors?

Wasn't it Nissan's Board of Directors responsibility to address the financial wrongdoings and compensation understating that Ghosn is accused of with Ghosn?

Why wasn't Nissan's Board of Directors, for it's complacency, criminally charged for breach of fiduciary duties on behalf of the Nissan Corporation and it's share holders?

Is Nissan just a Big CLUSTER ..... well you know ...

-13 ( +7 / -20 )

All this because insiders at Nissan colluded with central government to oust Ghosn.

How embarrassing for Japan.

-16 ( +7 / -23 )

Japan has no bail system, which means no laws (punishment) for those who jump bail. He saw a loophole and made use of it to expose Japan and its corrupt justice system. Those who helped him shouldn't have to pay the price for Japan to save face. This whole thing will end badly for Japan because those that are extradited would lawyer up and the world media would there to show the real japanese justice system. Just give it up already.

-18 ( +7 / -25 )

I hope that the worlds press report every single detail of their arrest in Japan, to force transparency of Japans legal system. The appropriate embassey should scrutanise every aspect of their questioning by the secret police, hostage style Japanese legal system. Every detail of their detention needs to be recorded and all Japanese proccedings examined, hopefully by the UN.

-15 ( +7 / -22 )

The Taylors' high-powered defense team during their months-long legal fight also lobbied the White House under then-President Donald Trump to step in.

The final step of the process is to ask the State Dept to suspend the extradition. Adding Jared and Ivanka's high-priced lawyer to their legal team seems to have been a bad investment in the end.

16 ( +19 / -3 )

Japan wont be comfortable having to handle the fate of 2 American citizens while on the Olympics.

Camera crews from all over the world will be watching.

Maybe.

But Japan will definitely will be a lot less comfortable if these men are out freely enjoying their handsome travel facilitation services fee

18 ( +22 / -4 )

Japan wont be comfortable having to handle the fate of 2 American citizens while on the Olympics.

Camera crews from all over the world will be watching.

-13 ( +9 / -22 )

When you accept money to do the deed, then you must be prepared to accept the consequences. Just because they made use of a loophole doesn't means the government would not stop coming after you. This probably serve as a warning to anyone who want to use this loophole to smuggling people out of the country in the future. Just because they use to belong to US army special forces doesn't mean they are bulletproof. Sad thing is that they already been abandon by Ghosn who is enjoying his retirement right now.

18 ( +26 / -8 )

Why?

There is no rule against leaving a country tucked inside a nice box, bypassing every immigration procedures and control.

This is just normal procedure everywhere in the World.

Japan's barbaric, medieval in (justice) in plain sight!

14 ( +24 / -10 )

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