Ghosn admits he signed papers on post-retirement pay; Saikawa also questioned

@Aly, is that the same Ichikawa who claimed that they were taught in official training that yakuza and foreigners had no human rights?

Everyone at Nissan Japan involved in this case should be shown the door out of Nissan. This is the only possible solution to save Nissan share-holders, staffs suppliers, and good honest Japanese. We must never let people like siakawa get away with throwing dirt in everybody's face except his own. He was the one that stated all this so call evidence on Carlos, Who do not read or write the Japanese language. Bad Japanese people should be prosecuted. Not people like Carlos, who helped put 3 car companies to-gather. I will not buy anything from Nissan until the old group like sakawa & his guchi team are fired. We good Normal Japanese are ashamed of the betraying for own selfish gain type. What a bad example to all young Japanese.

I want to see how accounts and auditors are going to get out of this. Looks like every and anyone connected to Nissan is going to get hit.

@Educator60

“So it takes prosecutors almost one month to figure out that Saikawa is involved?”

Theyve been questioning him from the beginning I believe.

So if questioning is sufficient, same as Ghosn he shouldn't be behind bar so since what they need is only question him.

All his said : somebody said something and othe said something else.

Let the people speak for themselves ! (Or by their lawyer)

What a joke if he signed a paper explicitely designed to prove he is guilty. Do you think CG is that stupid ?

Signing a paper to deliver actions which have been reviewed as acceptable by the competent staff does not make you guilty...CG is not accountant certified to my knowledge.

OK, I will explain it to you as less complicated as possible and hopefully you can take it. He denied it first and then admitted it, if that is not a lie, then what is it ? 

Akie - you never explained what law he broke. Lying is not actually a crime - Donald Trump lies so the time and walks free. Which actual law do you believe he broke?

I have always kept an open mind to his guilt, but am not aware yet that he actually broke a law.

gokai_wo_manekuToday 06:52 am JST

After all this, including this confession, are people still going to say that Nissan is just trying to get rid of the gaijin?

That makes perfect sense, why has this gaijin been in Jail for so long for a non violent crime, can anyone name a senior Japanese executive that's been in jail for this long without charges being laid - Kobe Steel apparently played with the figures for 40 yrs, it took months before Japanese police were even brought in to investigate and still not one single person has been put in detention.

Well i drive Nissan and the front looks French too me

if everyone starts shouting ,me first‘ .... its a small planet this one of ours.

For two decades, people thought Keiko Aoki was a cold-blooded killer.

Aoki says police interrogated her for 12 hours without a break, even though they had no evidence that she had killed her 11-year-old daughter.

She was not allowed to see a lawyer until after she confessed.

"From the beginning they said, 'You did it'. I said 'I didn't'. But they never listened," she says.

After hours of questioning, police told her that her de facto partner had already admitted that they murdered her daughter, Megumi.

Traumatised, Aoki says she gave up and wrote a confession dictated by the police.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/10/japan-forced-confessions-wrong-convictions-161010084400226.html

"I have overheard other prosecutors yelling at suspects and one of my bosses boasted how he kicked the shin of a suspect underneath the desk."

Another thing he regrets - aside from making the death threat - is writing up a confession statement which did not correspond with the truth.

"After I grilled the suspect for eight hours, I got him to sign this statement even though he didn't say a single word of it," he says.

"My boss was pressuring me to get his confession so I thought I couldn't go home without it."

For Ichikawa, it didn't matter if it was true or false as long as he had the confession.

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-20810572

Reaching for straws.

Read the above article I just posted.

Prosecutors will be thrown out of court with a counter suit that will cost 5 billion yen against the state prosecutors if they have done that.

Exactly. That's why they need that confession- even if its false.

They are not that dumb you know.

I don't know about that

Some interrogators use moral blackmail (“Think of the shame you are bringing on your family”). A few, if they are convinced that the suspect is guilty, simply fabricate a confession and press the suspect into signing it.

One lawyer estimates that a tenth of all convictions leading to prison are based on false confessions. It is impossible to know the true figure, but when 99.8% of prosecutions end in a guilty verdict, it is clear that the scales of justice are out of balance.

https://www.economist.com/leaders/2015/12/05/forced-to-confess

Aly RustomToday  02:16 pm JST

Or maybe it was signed WHILE he was in custody. After all, WHY didn't they produce the document BEFORE he confessed?

Reaching for straws.

Prosecutors will be thrown out of court with a counter suit that will cost 5 billion yen against the state prosecutors if they have done that.

They are not that dumb you know.

Yeah a signed document with figures for compensation after retirement that was never reported to TSE has nothing to do with the case does it.

Or maybe it was signed WHILE he was in custody. After all, WHY didn't they produce the document BEFORE he confessed?

Then take it to court. Why keep the man locked up for days until he confesses? Take it to court and convict him there. No. This is BS. Its a forced confession because they have NOTHING on him.

Yeah a signed document with figures for compensation after retirement that was never reported to TSE has nothing to do with the case does it.

Again. Then why not take it to court from day 1? Why insist on a forced confession?

'so why isn't Saikawa in jail if he did the exact same thing?'

Because he is Japanese, and needs to remain free to manipulate, influence and fabricate.

Then take it to court. Why keep the man locked up for days until he confesses? Take it to court and convict him there. No. This is BS. Its a forced confession because they have NOTHING on him.

Yeah a signed document with figures for compensation after retirement that was never reported to TSE has nothing to do with the case does it.

The more I read about this, and think about it, it is beginning to look like the classic Japanese scam.

Instigate, incite or provoke the foreigner to do something (not necessarily wrong), Report it, have the foreigner arrested, force a confession and then demand overboard compensation, knowing that judges know little about monetary compensation. Give the foreigners a suspended sentence and tell everybody how kind they are. All justified by "this is Japan"..

Perhaps this is really all about money.

Perhaps this little Pearl Harbour tactic will backfire.

In other news a Chinese executive was arrested, now not saying anything else about the arrest. Its what Chinese foreign ministry said.

Mr. Xi was apparently never told of the intent to arrest Ms. Meng at the dinner with Mr. Trump, where Mr. Bolton was present. The arrest came as a surprise to the Chinese government, which is calling for her immediate release and has accused the United States and Canada of human rights violations.

“To detain someone without giving clear reason is an obvious violation of human rights,” Geng Shuang, a spokesman for China’s Foreign Ministry, said at a news conference on Thursday.

Nikkei is reporting that Nissan, Ghosn, and his partner in crime sidekick will be indicted on Monday. Finally!

gogogo

so why isn't Saikawa in jail if he did the exact same thing?

EXACTLY!

The situation is much more simple Ghosn said he doesn't know of what they were talking about and then he was shown the document with his signature clearly stating that he will be compensated a total of 50 billion yen once his retirement from the company and the prosecutor asks if the signature is his in which he cannot deny.

Then take it to court. Why keep the man locked up for days until he confesses? Take it to court and convict him there. No. This is BS. Its a forced confession because they have NOTHING on him.

No Court in the democratic world would accept this kind of BS statement.

No Court in the democratic world would accept this kind of BS forced confession.

the 64-year-old has argued that the signing of the papers was only to confirm his understanding of the documents' contents

LOL. Of course a CEO of a massive multinational doesn't know what happens when he signs a document! It's all a conspiracy right?

Yeah right, he is 100% guilty as charged

Aly RustomToday  08:01 am JST

Sorry, but I'm skeptical. I personally think the pressure got to him and he cracked. At that stage, he probably would have signed a confession to the murder of Sharon Tate. Japanese justice is a joke.

The situation is much more simple Ghosn said he doesn't know of what they were talking about and then he was shown the document with his signature clearly stating that he will be compensated a total of 50 billion yen once his retirement from the company and the prosecutor asks if the signature is his in which he cannot deny.

The lame excuse he made, "I only signed to confirm that I understanding the contents but I never intended in agreeing with it".

No Court in the democratic world would accept this kind of BS statement.

First, . Are these documents in Japanese or translated into English ???. In Japan, many documents are made as a matter to just function in a Japanese company. But the signed parties never actually read it. In normal times, each just trust the other. This is not bad yet, Japan is called the hanko ( stamp ) country. and they have many hankos, round, square then the real honko called jitsuinn. Therefore, signing papers are merely to make better understanding. Unfortunately, there is the other side , the bad side. What now ??? signing a document that states the truth is a crime ???. I am getting confused. Pls tell me, is it a crime ???if a Japanese Kansayaki took my round hanko and stamp a document that I did not even see ???.

The learning is that the first thing the person in the highest position like Ghosn should do is to obey the law. In that way, there is no chance for other people to attack him/her.  Executives in Nissan may have known the Ghosn's misconduct but it was just for an ultimate weapon when he start to betray the company.

Folks there is a TON of what ifs, he said he said, she saids etc...……

No idea WHAT to believe. Sounds like he MAY have tried to hide current income to be paid later, as a few have said you still MUST report that in the year it was to be earned, that is IRRELEVANT to when he gets paid!!

SO, clearly the prosecutors DO NOT want a trial, they are going for the FORCED CONFESSION, very unbecoming!!

This MUST, rather should go to trial, but then the prosecution etc would actually have to do their jobs would they are loath to do

Go to trial damn it, this kidnapping etc is very very BAD!!

The money wasn't paid, so it's not remuneration, just as your pension isn't remuneration until you actually receive the payments.

Evidently you have a very poor understanding of financial accounting rules.

Good to know that even a CEO is not above the law in Japan. Hopefully this will come to the West one day, but there's no chance of that

The action of "under-reporting" should be attributed to the ones who declared on the securities report "accurate", neither of whom of Ghosn.

Ghosn is a capable man. He got into the trouble because he was reckless in denying perhaps trivial things. Let us hope that he can smooth things out and I believe he could.

so why isn't Saikawa in jail if he did the exact same thing?

Yet the CEO of Takada Airbags Shigehisa Takada hasnt spent a day in prison knowing his products killed many people..

But the sources said the 64-year-old has argued that the signing of the papers was only to confirm his understanding of the documents' contents, apparently maintaining he did not commit financial misconduct.

It was also learned Thursday that Nissan CEO Hiroto Saikawa had apparently signed separate documents on post-retirement payments crafted by Ghosn's close aide Greg Kelly, who was also arrested.

Prosecutors have questioned Saikawa on a voluntary basis, believing he knows why and how the documents were created, the sources said.

Ghosn has been arrested on suspicion of violating the Financial Instruments and Exchange Act by reporting only 5 billion yen of his 10 billion yen remuneration during the five years from fiscal 2010.

Aside from Ghosn's signature, the documents also included those of former Japanese secretarial officers.

Wow.. just wow, signing any contractual work agreement of the main CEO, would require lawyers, parties of all 3 companies, CFO present, translators, accountants to explain. Look at how cowardly worded this 'reporter' writes, key words used 'voluntary basis' Saikawa is innocent ? deflecting again from the main people: CFO, Accountants, Lawyers, Shareholders chair, is this all a forced fake confession? There is vague deflecting information as usual.. Kyodo, shame!

Dman112, I have headache because you made me dizzy. You just spin it too much. It doesn't matter what it is, as long as you denied it before you admitted it, then you lied about it. You can't get it both ways, it is binary. The problem for Ghosn is that it doesn't matter it is Nissan's fault or his fault, the fault is about his financial report. He can't get it both ways, to blame Nissan for his fault while signed all documents legally.

Akie,

What is "it"? "denied it", "admitted it"? I don't see anywhere he lied, please tell us exactly what this lie is?

Also, so because he was the CEO at the time, he deserves to be in detention center for this long? How about all of the other CEO's of Japanese companies, Toshiba, Olympus, Takata, Kobe Steel - did they spend any time in detention center?

Everyone is getting their facts from the same source the media! The Media prints what it deems will sell, not what it deems is MORALLY PROPER!

The whole system is rigged and the house of cards for JAPAN will begin to Collapse as documentaries outlining all the upper managerial blunders is aired for the world! Showing the true nature of business in Japan.

Dman112, OK, I will explain it to you as less complicated as possible and hopefully you can take it. He denied it first and then admitted it, if that is not a lie, then what is it ? If Nissian committed wrong doing, Ghosn is still responsible because he is the head of the company at the time. Legally speaking, Japanese can't prosecute anyone just because they are prosecutors. A hint to you, Ghosn isn't the only one arrested. It is convoluted.

I feel he was tricked by the Florange Law (Macron) and tricked by Nissan Board wanting to deferr to get around cap rules, the French Government threatened his CEO position at Renault unless he pushed for take over, far from being a villain Ghosn is a production hero for Nissan, with some childish bookwork and a big ego, but the French Government maybe need to answer some questions, I think they are the problem.

So we have established that Saikawa is certainly one of the whistle blowers, that is why @Reckless

@Hallowed

Please explain these incredible crimes - do you believe he told the IR team to not report his deferred compensation package?

Our Ghosn is finally learning, it's a good first step that he has finally confessed to part of his incredible crimes. More will surely follow. His next learning task after that is learning how to behave in prison.

Akie, "multiple crimes" name me one. Signing a contract is not a crime - which is what he admitted to.

Ghosn committed multiple crimes if indeed he admitted it after he denied it, as simple as that.

semperfi

How is this strike one? Did you sign a contract when you entered the Marines? I think most people sign an employment contract.

There you go.

STRIKE ONE.

More to come.

And, Saikawa has to go, as well as the other un -named excs who added their HAN to the docs.

It's Pandoras Box now.

This don't mean he hiding it intentionally .I don't know why the prosecutor don't go after the accounting and auditing firm .The whole things don't look like fraud to me. More like error in filing .By crime did he commit .The firm and board should be investigate as well .They fully know about it.

Akie; If indeed he denied it before he admitted it, then he committed crime.

What is your take on this issue - What crime do you think Ghosn actually committed?

So, to me this just sounds like he "admitted" to signing his employee contract ... which most all of us do when we agree to our pay at a company.

Keep in mind that Ghosn is not part of the IR team ... they are the ones to be culpable.

Unless there is some proof (email, video) that Ghosn actually told the IR team to purposefully not report the portion of deferred compensation, then he should be freed.

 It is giving an impression to people that the prosecutors extended a helping hand to Saikawa to get rid of Ghosn.

Impression indeed.  Like those made in wet cement.  Soon to be permanently etched for all to see.

S

This reminds me the case of Takanohana. It is basically a company power strife and should have been settled inside the company. But as Takanohana did, Saikawa reported it to police directly thinking they cannot solve the problem by themselves. Police or prosecutors should not have been involved in this. It is giving an impression to people that the prosecutors extended a helping hand to Saikawa to get rid of Ghosn.

Nissan CEO Hiroto Saikawa had apparently signed separate documents on post-retirement payments 

Prosecutors have questioned Saikawa on a voluntary basis, believing he knows why and how the documents were created, the sources said.

So it takes prosecutors almost one month to figure out that Saikawa is involved?

Sorry, but I'm skeptical. I personally think the pressure got to him and he cracked. At that stage, he probably would have signed a confession to the murder of Sharon Tate. Japanese justice is a joke.

If indeed he denied it before he admitted it, then he committed crime.

This is highly debatable as it is a third party reporting the supposed admission and we don't know the actual facts of the matter.

Not to mention that it is also necessary to know just how, if any admission was made in the first place, and how the questions were asked as well.

Is it a "crime" when a child takes a cookie and says they didn't, even though they have crumbs all over their clothes?

kurisupisu, what would be your future is you break a law ?

Who knows what the future will be?

This case is farcical！

If indeed he denied it before he admitted it, then he committed crime.

Flawed logic alert!

Anything that is being leaked by a "source close to the investigation" is likely to be pro prosocution and terms like "admitted" could easily be the prosocutions interpretation

Prosecutors have questioned Saikawa on a voluntary basis, believing he knows why and how the documents were created, the sources said.

Heres where a witness gets the script..

Surely no particular nationality has a monopoly on cicumventing laws especially where money is concerned.

Why Saikawa wasn't arrested ? Any explanations ? Don't explain if you don't understand the legal question.

If indeed he denied it before he admitted it, then he committed crime.

He wasn't paid the money during those years, based on what I've read. So why would he report it as payments made during those years.

The problem, as I understand it, is that he didn't report it at all. There would generally be a section on every company balance sheet stating the total amount of accrued deffered compensation even if the exact year of payment remains uncertain. It would sit there on the balance sheet as a company debt until it was actually paid out. In any case, this future liability has to be disclosed. The key point is that Ghosn was guaranteed to recieve the money. It wasn't something the company could decide not to pay out in the future even if his performance was poor. He would have been able to sue to collect it.

So, if you were an investor in Nissan, wouldn't you feel cheated if you put your money in and then discovered that there's a 5 billion yen debt that was never disclosed in securities filings or company accounts? This is the crime that's being investigated.

But the sources said the 64-year-old has argued that the signing of the papers was only to confirm his understanding of the documents' contents, apparently maintaining he did not commit financial misconduct.

LOL He learned how to find a loophole from working with Japanese, the masters of circumventing laws.

I wonder if Ghosn admitted to this, so that it would also implicate the coup leader Saikawa. It might be a risky move, but it proves that it was not only Ghosn and Kelly who knew of the deferred payments. Of course, Saikawa will skate, but it drags him deeper into this story.

That makes perfect sense. He wasn't paid the money during those years, based on what I've read. So why would he report it as payments made during those years.

Dont know if you read any of the other comments on other articles related to this here, but according to Japanese law, future expected compensation must also be reported as well

It was also learned Thursday that Nissan CEO Hiroto Saikawa had apparently signed separate documents on post-retirement payments crafted by Ghosn's close aide Greg Kelly, who was also arrested.

SO arrest him already!

After all this, including this confession, are people still going to say that Nissan is just trying to get rid of the gaijin?

Oh wow, they finally found SOMETHING.

Interesting how this matters more than the steel in our buildings or the airbags in our cars and the medicine in our children.

You bad foreign lookin guy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he hasn't denied having part of his pay deferred until retirement. So what if he signed the documents.

And all of this "leaking" of details by prosecutors to the press is just as disgusting as keeping Ghosn hostage in a jail cell.

Ghosn has asserted that the deferred payments were not fixed and thus did not have to be included in the financial securities reports.

that makes perfect sense. He wasn't paid the money during those years, based on what I've read. So why would he report it as payments made during those years.

The definiation of remuneration: "money paid for work or a service."

The money wasn't paid, so it's not remuneration, just as your pension isn't remuneration until you actually receive the payments.