Woman stabs 8-year-old son, then herself

The man was quoted by police as saying his wife had told him a week ago that she was tired and wanted to die.

and so you decide to sleep on the couch on the first floor? yeah, that'll solve the problem!

and so you decide to sleep on the couch on the first floor? yeah, that'll solve the problem!

Why do people always want to jump to conclusions they don't have a clue about? We don't know why they slept in separate rooms. And it's not unheard of married couples in Japan sleeping in separate rooms.

Waking up to the sound of your kids or loved ones crying and finding them bleeding from inflicted wounds must be awful.

and so you decide to sleep on the couch on the first floor? yeah, that'll solve the problem!

How do you know he wasn't already sleeping on the first floor previous to that? As Garthgoyle has said, you're jumping to conclusions.

Bring on the heaps of people who will want to protect this woman simply because it's a woman who committed the extreme violence! Another whack-job mother with no business being one. I've said it before, as have many others, and I'll say it again: if you need help, GET help. If you reach the point where absolutely nothing anyone does can help you and you feel you absolutely must off yourself, DON'T TAKE YOUR KIDS WITH YOU!!! Hope this woman is patched up, then locked up for the maximum you can get for attempted murder.

If they both pull through it is gonna be bad for the kid knowing his mother tried to kill him. I feel so sorry for him. But I hope he pulls through nonetheless and then gets heaps of good counselling and love.

if you need help, GET help

Where? How? There is immense shame attached to the mere hint of mental illness here. This translates into poor demand and (seemingly) worse supply.

Smith... fine saying "if you want help, GET help"... but is that help available? If so, is it well advertised?

Either way, you don't take out your frustrations by trying to kill your kids.

@smithinjapan

I've noticed that you've said similar things on previous occaisions, yet this sort of tragedy keeps happening again and again, not only in Japan.

Has it ever occured to you that it might be a deeply ingrained, natural and instinctive response of a mother in distress? Many species eat their young at the first sign of trouble or fear. There is likely something deep within the animal psyche that finds killing our own child preferable to leaving their safety and well being to chance. I agree that it's tragic, cruel and illogical, but it's something that probably needs a bit more understanding before we condemn these women and label them whack-jobs.

How do you know he wasn't already sleeping on the first floor previous to that?

so aren't you also assuming things? what's the difference between your conclusion and mine? neither can be said to be untrue.

M3M3M3: "Has it ever occured to you that it might be a deeply ingrained, natural and instinctive response of a mother in distress?"

My point is that it's never a 'father in distress', is it? When a man or boyfriend does this kind of thing it is, and rightly so, unforgivable and the man without a doubt a criminal. Yet when a woman does it, there is a gross double standard and she is suddenly a sympathetic person who, "May have done something wrong, sure, but perhaps she has some troubles" or some other equally poor justification, where in reality she is just as selfish and just as criminal as the man who does the same thing.

"Many species eat their young at the first sign of trouble or fear."

So, are we hamsters, or humans? You seem to want to hold us to the same standards.

" I agree that it's tragic, cruel and illogical, but it's something that probably needs a bit more understanding before we condemn these women and label them whack-jobs."

Here we go! Yup, "it's tragic, and cruel, and illogical.... BUT..."

So, why does it need more understanding? She's either sane, and should be held criminally responsible immediately, or a "whackjob", and therefore not sane. But again, why is it always the woman you come on here and defend? It's not like the kid was JUST born and she has PPD or the other excuses you guys usually use.

"I've noticed that you've said similar things on previous occaisions, yet this sort of tragedy keeps happening again and again, not only in Japan."

Where did I say this happens only in Japan? It's a Japan news forum, so I say it related to Japanese news more often than not, I suppose, but beyond that...? And yes, you've seen me say similar things, towards women and men, which proves I am consistent, and do not simply treat the people differently because they are women. A would-be murderer is a would-be murderer -- shame on you that you treat these people differently because of their gender.

An anecdote, my experience. I worked with a highly educated man (not that it matters) who in the middle of the night heard voices telling him he needed to kill his 3 year old son or else his whole family would be destroyed, so he walked to his son's room and stabbed him with a knife. Fortunately his son lived and had no physical problems as a result. The man was arrested and sent to jail where he was diagnosed with a mental illness, and then returned to his hometown in the UK where he received treatment for his schizophrenic episodes. He has been stable since.

It's easy to judge people in these cases, but mental illnesses are a reality. I can't believe anyone actually chooses to be mentally ill. Those who suffer from it need help - maybe some jail time with treatment, maybe a hospital.

I agree with previous posters who said not having support for people with mental illnesses is very worrisome.

@smithinjapan

My point is that it's never a 'father in distress', is it? When a man or boyfriend does this kind of thing it is, and rightly so, unforgivable and the man without a doubt a criminal.

Infanticide is much more rarely commited by fathers (with the exception of stepfathers). It's probably right to see it a bit differently. Many fathers kill for revenge rather than what might be seen as inexplicable 'insanity'.

Evolution offers some explanation for this. Males can reproduce more easily than females and have less resources to invest in bringing up a child (ie breast feeding in mammals). From an evolutionary standpoint, a mother has to be much more careful about when and how she invests her resources to produce offspring that can themselves be reproductively successful. Of course none of this might seems immediately relevant in this case, but it might explain some deep psychological trigger that mothers experience under extreme distress.

I really suggest you read some of the literature on infanticide. It's still not fully understood but I think it can give you a different perspective.

So, are we hamsters, or humans? You seem to want to hold us to the same standards.

Infanticide by mothers is also observed in primates and many other species, not just hamsters.

She's either sane, and should be held criminally responsible immediately, or a "whackjob", and therefore not sane.

That's the crux of the matter. Is she truly criminally insane to the point that she should be locked up? Was she just temporarily insane and should be set free? Or is she not insane at all because a significant percentage of mothers would act in the same way under the exact same circumstances? (the sheer number of cases might support this). Nobody seems to have a good answer.

Where did I say this happens only in Japan?

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were claiming it only happens in Japan.

Sorry, but I can't even raise an eyebrow to these reports in Japan anymore. It's always the same crap! It just shows how immature, selfish and emotionally undeveloped these so-called 'parents' really are. I hope the kid makes a full recovery and is taken away from this psycho biatch! I feel sorry for the father, but he (and his life as salary msking slave) are also to blame.

"He went upstairs and found the boy bleeding from multiple stab wounds. The man’s wife lay nearby with a stab wound to the stomach..."

Yes, there it is! I knew we fathers had a job to do at home. I just couldn't think what is was... ;-)

@M3M3M3 - "Infanticide is much more rarely commited by fathers..."

Yes, the statistic is SEVENTY-FIVE TIMES more likely to happen if the father is not around...

so aren't you also assuming things? what's the difference between your conclusion and mine? neither can be said to be untrue.

I didn't conclude anything. I asked you to clarify how you had come to your conclusion. Asking a question is not the same as drawing a conclusion. I didn't say he was sleeping on the sofa from before his wife had said what she said, I asked how you knew he had only been sleeping on the sofa since she had said it. I personally have no idea whether he was sleeping on the sofa from before or not, which is why I have not drawn any conclusions.

Bring on the heaps of people who will want to protect this woman simply because it's a woman who committed the extreme violence!

Once again, you misjudge. Not condemning due to a lack of information, is not the same as giving protection.

It's not like the kid was JUST born and she has PPD or the other excuses you guys usually use.

No, but there are other forms of mental illness than PPD. The article doesn't give us enough information to be able to judge whether or not she was insane.

Sorry, but I can't even raise an eyebrow to these reports in Japan anymore. It's always the same crap! It just shows how immature, selfish and emotionally undeveloped these so-called 'parents' really are.

Or maybe they have mental illness, which would have absolutely nothing to do with immaturity, selfishness, or emotional underdevelopment.

M3m3m3 you have good points re mothers primates eat young fear etc. I agree this needs study. I believe you are correct. We need show more empathy here.

M3M3M3: "Infanticide is much more rarely commited by fathers (with the exception of stepfathers)."

First off, we are not talking about an infant here. So you can stop that right now. That applies only to the murder of children under 12 months (hence 'infant'). You, as such, have pointed me out to be exactly correct in that you lump all cases of a woman killing (or attempting) to kill her offspring as the same.

"It's probably right to see it a bit differently. Many fathers kill for revenge rather than what might be seen as inexplicable 'insanity'."

Again, wrong. It is not right to see it 'a bit differently' -- and you NEVER do, for that matter, M3M3M3... or else show me one single post where a man does this and you ask people not to jump to conclusions; that he might be upset, or have some problems. Show me JUST one! Even if you were correct, you admit is 'much more rare', but that it COULD happen. But nope -- it's just that when it's a woman you automatically jump to her defense... no matter what. Even with an either year old you equate it to cases of infanticide or what animals do with young.

"That's the crux of the matter. Is she truly criminally insane to the point that she should be locked up? Was she just temporarily insane and should be set free? Or is she not insane at all because a significant percentage of mothers would act in the same way under the exact same circumstances? "

Or, my point again -- that she is just a murderer who did this because of her nature. Nearly no one else would 'do the same thing in her position', and it's sad that you blame society, blame the system, or blame EVERYONE else but the woman for this.

If you guys want to argue that help is not as readily available as it should be, then I am 100% in agreement, in Japan moreso than others due to the stigma still attached to depression and mental illness, and the people who don't take it seriously or are afraid to come forward as a result. If you want to talk about how society is in part to blame, again, I'm with you, and even the husband to an extent because it sounds like not much was done after her admittance. If you want to talk about how there is not enough general awareness, then again I'm behind you. But there IS help, and it seems like someone, including the woman herself, should have done more get it, especially given that there is not just the couple themselves, but the child involved.

"Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were claiming it only happens in Japan."

And I'm sorry too for coming off strong. I'm just tired of people getting a free pass -- and that's how it seems sometimes, like despite the gravity of murder or attempted murder, or the family member's age, many people will literally give the person a pass because it's a woman.

At the very least I hope people can admit that the woman needs to be distanced -- prison or a mental facility -- from the husband and DEFINITELY the son until she can be assessed and help given or put in prison and until she is no longer deemed a threat.

I hope the child recovers, mentally and physically.

Strangerland: "Once again, you misjudge. Not condemning due to a lack of information, is not the same as giving protection."

I wrote my original comment before you had posted yours. Once mine was posted and page refreshed I saw yours added. It was, therefore, not at all aimed at anyone in particular, so don't you think it's a little bit funny you saw my comment and assumed (and don't say you 'didn't draw that conclusion' because that's clearly indicated in what I quoted -- no backtracking!) I was 'misjudging' you, or addressing you, in regards to a person coming on and defending someone with the excuse of mental illness? :)

don't you think it's a little bit funny you saw my comment and assumed (and don't say you 'didn't draw that conclusion' because that's clearly indicated in what I quoted -- no backtracking!) I was 'misjudging' you, or addressing you

I didn't say you were misjudging me, I said you were misjudging. I hadn't said anything in particular that made me thing you were addressing me specifically.

So no, I don't think it's funny.

@smithinjapan

or else show me one single post where a man does this and you ask people not to jump to conclusions

Well, I'd like to think that I encourage people not to jump to conclusions in every case, but I don't believe there has ever been a case like this commited by a father of his own child since I've been a member of this site (there has been a step father). If there is a double standard, I assume you can show us reported cases where a man has killed his own child and there was no clear or rational motive behind it? I'm sure some exist, but I don't think there are very many.

Of course, we don't have any of the relevant facts yet. If, for example, the father was very close to the son and the mother wanted to spite the husband before she committed suicide, then I would have no sympathy. But that's just wild speculation.

First off, we are not talking about an infant here. So you can stop that right now. That applies only to the murder of children under 12 months.

Yes you're right, I'm using the term infanticide very loosely to refer to the killing of children. There are so many different technical terms depending on the age and relationship of the child, (Filicide and Prolicide) most of which I (and others) have probably never heard of.

At the very least I hope people can admit that the woman needs to be distanced -- prison or a mental facility -- from the husband and DEFINITELY the son until she can be assessed and help given or put in prison and until she is no longer deemed a threat.

We can agree on this.

@Polar Cities

We need show more empathy here.

Thanks, I agree.

M3M3M3 You made more valid points than any other member in here, thank you sir

Is there something I'm missing as to why people feel the need to kill their children then suicide?

How do you kill innocent children?

@smithinjapan - "the woman needs to be distanced... from the husband and DEFINITELY the son"

And all the people said... "Amen!"

There is immense shame attached to the mere hint of mental illness here. This translates into poor demand and (seemingly) worse supply.

And therein lies the problem. A lot of people who need help and are too embarrassed or ashamed to get it.

Is there something I'm missing as to why people feel the need to kill their children then suicide?

They're pretty much always either extremely narcissistic, or not in their right minds.

Wow! A real cat fight going on here!

Wow! A real cat fight going on here!

Lol, no no, just a lively discussion as per usual.

@Juan Rodriguez - Thanks.

Is there something I'm missing as to why people feel the need to kill their children then suicide?

These people wrongly feel their child would be worse off without them to take care of them.

Seek professional help for your family members. So many family members attempting to murder other family members in the news.

You wonder if any of them thought to themselves "my family member is depressed or mentally ill, maybe I should refer them to a professional who can help?"

Taken from: CULTURAL DYNAMICS AND THE UNCONSCIOUS IN SUICIDE IN JAPAN

In Japan, the mother-child bond and the mother's dedication to the child are very important. Why then, is infanticide committed by the mother relatively common in Japan? Paradoxically, it is this very bond between mother and child that causes oyako-shinju. According to Japanese logic, the suicidal mother cannot bear to leave the child to survive alone; she would rather kill the child because she believes that nobody else in the world would take care of the child better than she, and that the child would be better off dying with her.

Yoshitomo Takahashi, M.D. (Tokyo Institute of Psychiatry, Tokyo Japan), Douglas Berger, M.D. (Tokyo Institute of Psychiatry, Tokyo Japan,Department of Psychiatry, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Bronx New York)

@wontond - "According to Japanese logic...she believes that nobody else in the world would take care of the child better than she"

The child is better being taken care of the biological parents for sure. The problem in Japan is that nobody is really quite sure who the father really is!!... :-(

According to Japanese logic, the suicidal mother cannot bear to leave the child to survive alone; she would rather kill the child because she believes that nobody else in the world would take care of the child better than she, and that the child would be better off dying with her.

More whacked-out so-called japanese logic. Outdated thinking, we're not in the samurai days.

I hope the mom burns in hell. I hope her son recovers and never forgives her.

SenseNotSoCommon: Where? How? There is immense shame attached to the mere hint of mental illness here. This translates into poor demand and (seemingly) worse supply.

Lots of fields have seen great productivity gains since

Mental health field should try things like automated prescreens, automated sessions, and videoconferenced sessions. Cut costs way down, push productivity way up, have more patients treated.

I can't imagine why turbostat thinks that automated interview sessions with patients to assess their problems would speed cases through. What patient is going to spill their guts to a questionnaire and a camera? These people need face - to face conversations with understanding therapists who in turn needs to see the patients' faces and body language to make a more accurate assessment of their problems.

"According to Japanese logic, the suicidal mother cannot bear to leave the child to survive alone; she would rather kill the child because she believes that nobody else in the world would take care of the child better than she, and that the child would be better off dying with her."

Yes that's the Japanese logic alright, but it's wrong. And this case proves it. Lady, I'd love to look after the boy when gets out. I won't stab him. But he's gonna need a lot of care after surviving his own mother stabbing him.

I used to have sympathy for Jaoanese mothers but not anymore. Not after lioving my kids to pieces only to have a selfish witch of a wife take them and not let me see them. Believe me I am as traumatized as any Japanese mother would be. And I could take care of kids as well as most Jaoanese mothers I know. This woman is over 40? Sorry, but my sister at 15 could look after toddlers better than most of the Japanese mothers I know but esp my ex-wife.

As for the sleeping downstairs? Maybe the mother could have slept in the same room as the husband and had a great marriage and had the boy grow up seeing his parents in love.

Tired of seeing university educated princesses in their late 30's and 4o's looking after one child with every modern convenience in the works and still thinking their life is so hard.,

Just realized I sound bitter. I guess I am. But if my ex-wife who doesn't let me see kids stabbed ours because she thinks she lives them so much and they couldn't live without her then - I don't know what I'd do.

I realize there are great Jaoanese mothers out there - but there are also some women who don't deserve sympathy.

Btw, if you think you want to die and are tired go seek help - don't stab your kids. A parent who loves their kids more than their own life will overcome any embarrassment .

Menopause stress? People do inexplicable things. I was "instructed" to sleep in the study and then several weeks later asked "How long is this going to go on?". I don't think the problem is as bad as the case above but the danger of such extreme behavior as above has at times crossed my mind but there is nothing I can do about it because the family court only seem to side with my wife.

It`s really sad how this sorta news have become an everyday thing in Japan... We dont even have enough kids to begin with... Japanese people need to learn how to love and give love more...

From what I have seen, many women learn to be moms, right there and then as the baby pops out. I have not heard of many young girls being taught or prepared by their mothers in any way. What I have seen is the grand mom coming over to stay for a couple of months to help out and support. Sometimes there are women who are not ready for this kind of stress and there are those who are just nuts. Mental issues can arise after birth and lead to things like this if left untreated. From the moment the wife told the husband she wanted to die, he should have down something about it. In any case who cares what any of us thinks, a child suffered greatly and may die and THAT is terrible on every level.

@My_Opinion - "Mental issues can arise after birth and lead to things like this if left untreated.."

1) Post-natal depression is more common than you think

2) Depression is a form of mental illness

3) It's not a good idea to leave a child with someone who is mentally ill

if they both make it, he will probably never feel safe with his mother again. and a mother is the last person a kid should feel unsafe around. This is quite a sad situation.

@TheGodfather you don't know what I think, just what I felt like commenting. A child got stabbed because his dad was careless and his mom was mentally unstable, end of story. Miserable event for all.

@ My_Opinion - "A child got stabbed because his dad was careless..."

Is that your opinion? Oh dear!! :-(

I totally agree with the first commenter and don't understand people criticizing him. The husband should do something if his wife says something as serious as that. You don't just ignore it and hope it's "just a phase" which a lot of people seem to think. All cases like these -and there are a ton in Japan -can be prevented with a little pro-action and self-awareness of people's declining mental state.

@OrangeXenon54 - "cases like these... can be prevented with... awareness of people's declining mental state"

But being tired and wanting to die is NORMAL in Japan!! ;-)