Photo: MARVEL.COM
entertainment

'Ant-Man' sequel brings female characters to the forefront

28 Comments
By MIKE CIDONI LENNOX

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© Copyright 2018 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

©2021 GPlusMedia Inc.

28 Comments
Login to comment

I do not think this means what you think this means. - Father of the bride ( Enugo Montoya )

I do not know where to begin on this, lol

1 ( +1 / -0 )

New age feminism... I do not think this means what you think this means. - Father of the bride ( Enugo Montoya )

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Who cares if they want to play up the fact that its the first time for a female superhero to have top billing in the MCU? It's true isn't it? I think Disney is actually being fairly reasonable in their marketing of that aspect of it.

My only fear is that now, if someone voices that they don't like the film (for legitimate reasons, not because it has an icky girl in it), they will suddenly be labeled as a sexist. Like how anyone who dared voice their opinion that Black Panther was not that great was automatically labeled by many as a racist. It's gotten a little ridiculous and it really takes away from any strides that a film is making.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

They'll stop making them when people stop watching them

For the longest time, comic book movies were hardly made due to the logistic difficulties, and the belief that people wouldn't watch them

It wasn't till not too long ago that technology made the logistics easier, and lo and behold people are watching them

So now, they have decades of backlog of comic book stories that they can adapt to the big screen that they couldn't before

That's why a lot of them are being made right now - because they have decades of these backlogs that they could mine

Other genres and stories are already being mined for the big screen for the past 100 years - that's why there's not a backlog of these stories ready to be made into films (they've already been mined the mountain into Swiss cheese)

Those other stories based on books, stage plays, songs, scripts, visions, etc.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

More representation, but not by remakes. If not originals, it will cheapen the new actresses and actors as viewers will always be comparing the two. Think of redos of songs. Anybody remember the artist who redid the song Take my Breath Away? IMHO, I was comparing the two. Without the synthesizers set in the original it sounded hollow. Originals to remakes are grape juice and grape flavoured kool-aid.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

I honestly didn't see Wonder Woman, so I have no idea. I know it did well financially, but I've been burned too many times by people insisting that "THIS Marvel movie is different!"

WW is DC and tbf, it's their best offering post Nolan's Batman. For me, it's good but not up to Marvel's output.

The only rubbish Marvel thing I've seen is Marvel's Inhumans (telly show) which was dreadful.

But hey, if you're not into Marvel, I can't convert you. I will say that the recent slew of films are great fun, my personal favorites being Thor Ragnarok, Spiderman Homecoming, Doctor Strange and Avengers Infinity War.

But I think another point is that people just don't like to be spoon-fed or lectured.

For sure but none of the films I've listed above are lecturing me. I just find them enjoyable escapism. The marketing blurb, the hype, the interviews and all that - different component of the machine. Which I take with a pinch of salt.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Or maybe I've been waiting decades to see a more representative choice of blockbusters? Just to prove to me that in sci-fi, you don't have to be a straight white male to be onscreen and have a story to lead in.

Terrified male viewers don't have to watch these films. Which reminds me of a guy I knew years back who didn't like T2 or Aliens because he felt Cameron was focussing too much on the characters of Ripley and Sarah Connor. Duh!

Go ahead, what's stopping you? All we ask is they make films about women instead of the trend/fad/lemming attitude of turning every male character into female.

And yes, the only thing I am terrified of is Hollywood and sycophants churning out and turning out for the next 100 formula-of-the-year film (as in all male characters becoming female).

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

"struggling jewish writers..."

whats that all about?

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

You need a wider circle of chums, then ;-)

lol, very true!

Presumably you don't mean Wonder Woman, last years massive global hit... or Disney's Frozen?

I honestly didn't see Wonder Woman, so I have no idea. I know it did well financially, but I've been burned too many times by people insisting that "THIS Marvel movie is different!" and "You'll like THIS one!!" again and again, every time they come out with a new shtick. So, I've completely stopped seeing new ones. I'm definitely open to it (or any movie) being good. My comment about the "girl power" movies failing is a broad generalization. Of course there are exceptions.

I'm sure it raises some people's hackles when there's talk of strong female roles and positive role models and so forth.

Sure. And some of them are definitely just being closed-minded, so hopefully they get over that. But I think another point is that people just don't like to be spoon-fed or lectured. And that can be a tricky balancing point to find, especially when you've got a valuable, important point to make.

ideally, it would be great just to get on with writing characters and scripts that encompass all

Totally agreed. And there is some movement in that direction. Just off the top of my head, I can name two recent-ish movies ("Atomic Blonde" and "Red Sparrow") that were action/spy movies with a powerful female lead. The problem is, neither movie was that good. However, I think that's the right direction to take (fresh, original movies featuring women), rather than remaking "Pulp Fiction" or "Fight Club" with an all-women cast, or inserting a wily female secret agent who needs to save Tom Cruise in the next "Mission: Impossible" movie.

Thanks for the thoughtful comment, Toasted Heretic!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

I've been dragged to see far too many of them by well-meaning friends

You need a wider circle of chums, then ;-)

Someone doesn't have to be "terrified" or a raging bigot to dislike the way Hollywood has been handling this situation.

The situation being representing people who aren't hetero white males?

I'm going by the reaction I read and hear and discuss. Most people I know, irl, are fine with Marvel and some of us are really happy that we're seeing more people like us on the big screen.

Sure, some of the blurb and publicity is a bit OTT and I'd rather the film is just put out there without all the caveats that some people find bothersome. But ideally, it would be great just to get on with writing characters and scripts that encompass all, rather than the default male white lead, the love-interest and the wisecracking sidekick of (insert race here) origins.

Hollywood's going about this completely backwards, and their girl-power films have been failing.

Presumably you don't mean Wonder Woman, last years massive global hit... or Disney's Frozen? Ok, the latter is not strictly a superhero ... but Anna is a hero.

That's causing this problem to get worse (and more contentious and more angry among the public) rather than better.

Back to the marketing, I'm sure it raises some people's hackles when there's talk of strong female roles and positive role models and so forth. Perhaps the marketing lot are knowingly doing this to stimulate debate. If some people get into a temper tantrum over marketing tactics, I think it says more about them than the film.

Not directing that at you, btw!

But I don't see an angry public marching on tinseltown with torches and pitchforks anytime soon. They can just chose to watch other films. The world of film is far bigger and often more beautiful with what the Hollywood experience can offer.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Toasted Heretic: Terrified male viewers don't have to watch these films.

lol. What a ridiculous assumption! Someone doesn't have to be "terrified" or a raging bigot to dislike the way Hollywood has been handling this situation. That's just minimizing and dismissing a legitimate opinion rather than trying to understand it.

I'm perfectly fine with any type of movie featuring any type of character portrayed by actors of any gender, race, etc. If it's good, I'll go watch it. But that's the key point: "IF it's good." I think that the film industry has (finally!) rightly understood the problem of under-represented groups of people, but has wrongly responded to that problem. If they want more films with strong women, then they need to go and write/produce/invest in some great original stories with great female characters. And then the audience will surely come. But the movie makers aren't doing that. They're cutting corners. They're taking movies which were written to be about men (which are also a perfectly OK kind of movie to make) and shoehorning strong women characters into them. The results have been terrible - these movies are messy and trying to do too much. Or, they're taking older movies that were about men, and remaking them into movies about women (Ocean's, Ghostbusters). The results have also been terrible. You can't just say "See!! See!! We added some women characters!! And if you don't love it, then you're a terrified misogynist!!" It doesn't work that way. It ultimately comes down to quality of story, quality of characters, quality of production. So when I see stuff like this...

the film is making a big statement about female empowerment by featuring Evangeline Lilly's The Wasp not only in the title, but...

...it's telling me that this movie is NOT focused on telling the best possible story with the best possible characters. The filmmakers are thinking about marketing gender balance, thinking about making a social statement, thinking about how they're projecting themselves to society, and once they make those kinds of decisions, THEN trying to cobble together a story that fits those social goals they've set for themselves. Social statements ought to come organically through thoughtful stories, not the other way around.

I've done a bit of writing myself. And based on my own personal experience, I can honestly say that you will fail EVERY SINGLE TIME if you start by thinking "I'm going to write a story that makes women look strong!!!" The way to succeed is, "I have an idea for a really interesting character. Now, let me see what kind of story I can build around her." Hollywood's going about this completely backwards, and their girl-power films have been failing. That's causing this problem to get worse (and more contentious and more angry among the public) rather than better.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I'm with Wing. Fair enough if you're into bubblegum movies. I know plenty of people who expect nothing more than a passive moviegoing experience. The notion of a film that makes them think or come up with their own interpretation would strike them as ridiculous. I'd like to force them to watch Ikiru or Persona just to see their tortured faces.

I was with things thru the Christopher Nolan wave of madness (fascist fantasy notw/standing), and Wonder Woman was pretty rocking but the Avengers franchise has literally sucked most of the energy and money and talent out of the business. For every Moonlight there are literally dozens of comicbook films. I mean, do we need Spiderman reinterpreted at least once a decade. Am I the only one who remembers when Robert Downey Jr or Daniel Craig actually acted--is there any recovery from the kiddy films for an actor?

To paraphrase a beat, I saw the best actors of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical in tight ridiculous onesies, dragging themselves through banal scripts at the multiplex looking for a cut of the box office.

It's the equivalent of the Harry Potterization of fiction--what on earth are we escaping from--oh right!

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Toasted Heretic: Any reason why you want a particular genre of film to stop because you disagree with them?

I think you're taking me too literally. I'm not putting together a petition to halt production. I'm simply wishing away something I subjectively dislike.

Here's why I subjectively dislike them: I find these movies utterly boring, formulaic, and small-minded. I've been dragged to see far too many of them by well-meaning friends, and I've never walked away impressed. They try to cram in far too many characters, which may make comic book fans happy, but results in paper-thin characters who are reduced to gimmicks that can be introduced and repeated briefly, rather than building deeper and more complex characters. They universally seem to have a 3rd act problem where the final 45 minutes are spent by a large cast of characters putting their magical powers together to do battle, and there's lots of purple ray beams shooting through the air and people flying and cracking the pavement after jumping off high places. It's horrifically boring to me. They try to spice it up with plenty of wise-cracks (yawn). They try to make it profound by introducing some simplistic moral dilemma (yawn). Take the Marvel movies, put them together with similarly small-minded entertainment like AKB48 and the Kardashians, and send them all to the moon, please.

Again - this is just one man's opinion.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Good for them. As soon as they start sending me a percentage of the profits, I'll gladly put on my "sound business decision hat" and encourage them to carry on. Until then, I'm going to continue to speak as a movie-going consumer and voice my own opinions based on what I do and don't like. And on that note, I wish they'd go away and never come back.

Or you could just, you know...not watch them. There plenty of other movies out there.

Seriously, after the success of infinity war, these movies aren't going anywhere. They have a whole new phase planned and plenty of untapped IPs. Get ready for another 18+ movies.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

Haaa Nemui: Stopping something that has good demand and is proven able to make good money in an industry that may seem to be saturated with the types of films you don't like actually seems to be a stupid course of action

Good for them. As soon as they start sending me a percentage of the profits, I'll gladly put on my "sound business decision hat" and encourage them to carry on. Until then, I'm going to continue to speak as a movie-going consumer and voice my own opinions based on what I do and don't like. And on that note, I wish they'd go away and never come back.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Thank you for your insight. Any particular reason why, or are you just labeling things "stupid" that you disagree with?

Stopping something that has good demand and is proven able to make good money in an industry that may seem to be saturated with the types of films you don't like actually seems to be a stupid course of action... and what Toasted Heretic said too.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Any particular reason why, or are you just labeling things "stupid" that you disagree with?

Any reason why you want a particular genre of film to stop because you disagree with them?

I don't care for sports films, for the most part, but I'd not want to see others who enjoy them denied their entertainment.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

AntMAN goes the way of Star Wars, Star Trek, Annihilation, Ghostbusters, Mad Maxette, Ocean's Eight, X-woMEN and Thor Ragnarok.

Hollywood's trend empowered by compliant reviewers and an audience watching anything and everything (say 50 Marvel films a year)

Or maybe I've been waiting decades to see a more representative choice of blockbusters? Just to prove to me that in sci-fi, you don't have to be a straight white male to be onscreen and have a story to lead in.

Terrified male viewers don't have to watch these films. Which reminds me of a guy I knew years back who didn't like T2 or Aliens because he felt Cameron was focussing too much on the characters of Ripley and Sarah Connor. Duh!

4 ( +7 / -3 )

AntMAN goes the way of Star Wars, Star Trek, Annihilation, Ghostbusters, Mad Maxette, Ocean's Eight, X-woMEN and Thor Ragnarok.

Hollywood's trend empowered by compliant reviewers and an audience watching anything and everything (say 50 Marvel films a year)

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Haaa Nemui: Well... that would seem to be really stupid.

Thank you for your insight. Any particular reason why, or are you just labeling things "stupid" that you disagree with?

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Evangeline Lilly was pretty good in "The Hobbit" too.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@ dangob

enough of the lame comic hero flicks. can't the Hollywood elite think of new ideas?

Comic heroes were created by struggling Jewish artists and writers some 80 years ago and its a testament to their sense of wonder and storytelling that this genre is more alive today than ever before.

If westerns, gangster flicks, romantic comedies, thrillers, sci-fi, cop films etc can thrive for generations it's snobbish to dismiss another genre just because some don't like it.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Yes.

Well... that would seem to be really stupid.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

"You know, I've asked myself the same question: Are we making a mountain out of a molehill?" Lilly said during a recent interview

Yes.

Dango bong: enough of the lame comic hero flicks.

Speed: Lame comics on film

Yes and yes.

Haaa Nemui: you want them to stop?

Yes.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

I hope the flick comes off in a natural way, but reading this is does seem like they are trying to hard....time will tell I suppose

1 ( +2 / -1 )

enough of the lame comic hero flicks. can't the Hollywood elite think of new ideas?

Unlike American cars, there is good demand for these... and you want them to stop?

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Lame comics on film with lame women in the forefront. Thanks, but I'll give it a skip.

-1 ( +7 / -8 )

enough of the lame comic hero flicks. can't the Hollywood elite think of new ideas?

0 ( +8 / -8 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites