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Decades later, Yoko Ono to be credited on 'Imagine'

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By Gabe Ginsberg

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Sorry I really dislike Ono, she sold all of John's personal things at auction and Sean had to buy them, she wouldn't give them to him.... She really is only in it for the money.

5 ( +14 / -9 )

Imagine that.

"Ono is unlikely to see any personal windfall in the immediate future as she already is the heir to Lennon's estate."

I imagine she'll donate the royalties to charity:

"Imagine no possessions. I wonder if you can. No need for greed ..."

Right.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

27 years after his death, this talentless fraud is still feeding off of Lennons fame.

was was he thinking??

8 ( +18 / -10 )

Which is fair: to judge the song by the lifestyle of the artist or vice versa? Or neither?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Sorry I really dislike Ono, she sold all of John's personal things at auction and Sean had to buy them, she wouldn't give them to him.... She really is only in it for the money.

I think you mean Julian. Sean is her son, but Julian was the son from John's previous wife. The way she treated him is shameful.

12 ( +14 / -2 )

Good on her and about time. A very talented artist who was attacked by a very hostile press and public who blamed her for just about everything. 36 years after Lennon's death and still she has to face random ad hominems and ugly epithets for being a strong woman and Japanese.

-7 ( +9 / -16 )

Yoko and the words talent or art dont belong together.

1 ( +11 / -10 )

Toasted H - totally agree.

Everyone to their own likes, but it's amazing how so many have become Yoko Ono and her life/art/work authorities.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

I think she looks like young.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

The hostility shown towards her back in the 60s and 70s was undoubtedly largely down to bigotry, and probably connected to feelings about Japan being the enemy in WW2. It has carried forward to the present day for absolutely no good reason.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

@Maria

Completely agree. But I do feel there is a misogynist streak in detractors of any female artist/actor/etc. Some men don't like it when a sister is intelligent, strong and has something to say.

-9 ( +7 / -16 )

At least this let's John a bit off the hook for those awful lyrics. Just a bit.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

the hate that still stems from the ani-yoko  crowd is humorous or sad. i don't know which top be honest. it's likie john lennon had no fault or blame in the demise of his relationship with mccartney. and mc really does need to get over this. switching the name on the writing credits really is trivial. Sad!

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Anna "I thinks he looks like young"

Yeah like Neil Young

Maria "The hostility shown towards her back in the 60s and 70s was undoubtedly largely down to bigotry, and probably connected to feelings about Japan being the enemy in WW2. It has carried forward to the present day for absolutely no good reason."

No it is very doubtable that the hate was due to Japan in any way. It is based solely on her golddigging, no talent, hateful personality. There are many many stories from the 60s to today about the horrible way she treated staff of Apple Records and personal staff. She has earned 100% of the hate.

Toasted Heretic "But I do feel there is a misogynist streak in detractors of any female artist/actor/etc. Some men don't like it when a sister is intelligent, strong and has something to say."

Ha ha ha, oh sorry you are serious. Whet of any intelligence has this coat tail grabbing, golddigging hag EVER said that was intelligent or added on iota to ANY itelligent discussion? Stregth? You mean marrying a famous man, breaking up band, and causing even today strong feelings against her by the surviving tweo members? If that is strength she needs more humility.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Readers, there is no need to insult Ms Ono. Calling her a "hag," for example. It is not nice and makes you all look petty.

Yoko Ono is first and foremost a shrewd business women, certainly having the measure on Paul McCartney. Yoko Ono is fiercely loyal and protective of her husband's legacy.

There is a more than just whiff of opportunism, jealousy even, about McCartney's constant urge to downplay John Lennon's 'politicking' flair in sensing the public mood when putting lyrics to music. Yoko Ono never flinches from slapping McCartney down and putting him in his place.  

John Lennon memory is a good hands.

Yoko Ono in song credits fight

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1416423/Yoko-Ono-in-song-credits-fight.html

2 ( +8 / -6 )

Yoko Ono is first and foremost a shrewd business women

If your measure of business acumen is based on marrying one of the world's most successful musicians, then yes, very shrewd.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

No bashing but how come you get credits if not at time of record.

For those who did not read her biography, please do so. She is special indeed but not a musician.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

She's an artist in her own right. A songwriter? Uh, no.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

In just about every interview she does she will emphasize that she is an artist. She convinced herself of this long ago and probably actually believes it.

I can appreciate avant garde, but it is all too easy for talentless people to ride that idiom and claim artistry.

She is shrewd, no doubt about it. But talented as an artist??

And yes, her treatment of Julian Lennon - and many others - has been terrible. So much for peace and love.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Hi, Ah_so, Yoko Ono is for many, a hate figure, responsible for the eventual breakup of the Beatles, although I have a suspicion there parting was inevitable, but that is from reading a number of articles about the subject. The era was long before my time.

Imagine Peace ....

Yoko Ono: A Feminist Analysis by Cara Kulwicki.....

http://imaginepeace.com/archives/5272

I can't say I appreciate the Beatles legacy as much as my grandparents. I am much more taken with John Lennon ability to write simple songs with intense meaning that can stand the test of time.   

Two examples.....

Watching The Wheels.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp9dc9im3-M

Working Class Hero.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njG7p6CSbCU

1 ( +3 / -2 )

When Lennon was making his last album, Double Fantasy, he put the feelers out to McCartney for them to get together to write. Ono blocked it. This is according to the producer of that album, Jack Douglas.

She had also blocked earlier attempts by Lennon to reconcile and work with Paul.

George Harrison couldnt stand her, recognizing her for exactly waht she was. I guess this makes George a bigoted mysoginist.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

George Harrison resented Yoko Ono presence.

That Time George Harrison Quit the Beatles

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/george-harrison-quits-the-beatles/

1 ( +3 / -2 )

"Imagine" was inspired in part by lines in Ono's conceptual art book "Grapefruit"

Yoko was already on her second marriage when she met John. Her second husband rescued her from a lunatic asylum in Japan and took her to England.

Whatever her faults, she was good for John. Let her be...

0 ( +4 / -4 )

George Harrison couldnt stand her, recognizing her for exactly waht she was. I guess this makes George a bigoted mysoginist.

That's a weird conclusion you've come to.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

As long as they don't credit her with being able to sing

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Itsonly rocknroll, "yoko ono never flinches from slapping mccartney down and putting him in his place."

Heh, give peace a chance. Riiiiight.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

it'sonlyrockandroll - thanks for the link.

A little sanity into the narrative.

And with any of Yoko's shortcomings, being a golddigging, friend-breaking groupie wasn't one of them.

John pursued her - very much so. He wanted her. He got her.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I like her.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Honestly Kestrel, I have no dislike towards Paul McCartney personally, I'm in no position to judge or criticize him as a songwriter. My opinion is formed more from the stand point of Lennon's legacy and Yoko Ono determination to preserve his memory.

I am intrigued by Paul McCartney's tactics when the opportunity to gain control of Beatles publishing company Northern Songs (1969) arose. Why Paul McCartney allegedly used a shell company to gain an advantage, destroyed their friendship. Yoko Ono was present throughout the time.     

Lennon also discovered that McCartney had secretly been buying extra shares in Northern Songs, meaning the two songwriters no longer had an equal share; Lennon was furious upon discovering the news.

The Beatles lose control of Northern Songs

https://www.beatlesbible.com/1969/09/19/beatles-lose-control-of-northern-songs/

Also Paul McCartney was a tad disingenuous when interviewed by esquire .....

Paul McCartney Says John Lennon’s Death Made Him a ‘Martyr’

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/paul-mccartney-john-lennon-martyr/

I think these examples give an insight as to the reasoning behind Yoko Ono distrust and cynicism.  

Hi browny1, I believe John Lennon as a musician and songwriter genuinely stands out as a unique talent able to define his deep emotions and feelings from on occasions a tormented soul. The part Yoko Ono contributed in reality only Yoko Ono can elaborate on.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Sorry I really dislike Ono, she sold all of John's personal things at auction and Sean had to buy them, she wouldn't give them to him.... She really is only in it for the money.

I don't know about the money part, but she did love John dearly and she did hinder him in many ways, she also had a lot of problems with Julian, he wanted to have a decent relationship with her, but she was more cold towards him and that wedge only deepened after Sean was born. Very sad.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

itsonlyrocknroll, its a LOT more complicated than that. You have to go back to when lennon and ono insisted on alan klein as the new manager for the beatles. Paul was savvy enough to see that klein was a crook ( something john himself later admitted).

very very complicated history. Yoko did not help.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I have read Goodman bio,  Klein he was tough unscrupulous, ruthless litigator.....The rest is history....   

http://www.newstatesman.com/culture/books/2016/02/biggest-bastard-pop-how-allen-klein-changed-game-music-revenue

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Klein also ripped off the Rolling Stones when he managed them.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

If McCartney wants to have his name first on those songs he was more responsible for writing than good on him, his most covered song 'Yesterday' was mostly written by him with some input from Lennon. I don't see why Lennon should than get lead credit on every song and it's not like McCartney is trying to do a total whitewash of the whole Beatles library. It's fairly well known which songs McCartney is more responsible for and those are the ones he wants lead credit on. It will never change the fact that the partnership will always be known as Lennon/McCartney.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

The main problem I have with this is that from what I know about John, I think that if he truly felt she deserved credit, he would have given it to her at the time.

As long as they don't credit her with being able to sing

Good one!

BTW, Bill Burr has a great bit on John and Yoko.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2i9RvBOSZ4

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Actually, I think she is a very good artist and she was an important member of the Post Modernist Fluxus group in the 60's. I see her as a bold, intelligent idealist who left Japan to tap into the heartbeat of contemporary global philosophy in New York - a radical move for a woman from her background. Check out 'Cut Piece'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYJ3dPwa2tI

She is highly regarded and decorated in the Art world.

She is also philanthropist, a strong promoter of Human rights and a generous donator to disaster funds such as the Japanese Tsunami.

Outstanding Human, in my opinion.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Raw Beer, exactly. The question is, why didn't john give her a credit at the time. Or at least move to get her on the credits during his lifetime?

0 ( +4 / -4 )

I used to be firmly in the John n Yoko camp, and bought into johns (and Yokos) mild and relentless character assassination of McCartney.

I recommend anyone interested really take the time to learn and research the whole Beatles (and post-Beatles) saga. Your eyes will be opened, as mine were.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

John loved Yoko, and she was so valuable to his life. And I respect his judgement and decision.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Never liked her then. Don't like her now. As for Sean, not sure if he has real talent. Could be wrong, dunno. Whatever happened to the one with talent, Julian? Sorry just haven't been paying much attention for several decades.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

"Don't worry kyoko".

Listen to that song and tell me if you want to hear it again and again...

Coming from rich family and having privileged access to talented artists does not make you one.

Paul Mac Cartney and the two other Beatles had their opinions about it.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

"Imagine no possessions". John n Yoko bought an extra floor of the Dakota apartment building just to house Yoko's two thousand mink coats.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Kestrel wrote: "...Yoko's two thousand mink coats."

"Imagine no possessions".

Phrases like this is why I love the song.

Preachy keen. So what if the Reverend drives off in his limo afterward with his lady dripping minks? The soporific melody induces a mild trance that gives me a chance to catch some zzzzs and the Reverends' acolytes who hang on every word in search of enlightenment are satisfied as well.

Viva Yoko!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

So many of you posters write as if you were such close friends of John and Yoko. They meant so much to you. Me? I'd get more enjoy reading 10-year old used car adverts in the Sunday NYT than following the doings of either of them.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Bill murphy, thanks for stating what really needs to be said - Imagine just isnt a very good song.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

John n Yoko bought an extra floor of the Dakota apartment building just to house Yoko's two thousand mink coats.

Did John buy any of those coats. Did he buy the extra floor? Does he have ANY responsibility?

Comments like this are symptomatic of the Western narrative that presents Yoko Ono as some kind of conniving little temptress that latched onto John Lesson with the sole intent of destroying the Beatles.

It's racist, misogynistic nonsense.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Tamarama, please read my post again.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Sorry to you John for all the meaness here

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

So many of you posters write as if you were such close friends of John and Yoko. They meant so much to you. Me? I'd get more enjoy reading 10-year old used car adverts in the Sunday NYT than following the doings of either of them.

Close friends? Nope. Maybe we're just a bunch of deplorable musicians.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

John loved Yoko, and she was so valuable to his life. And I respect his judgement and decision.

BINGO.

Haven't heard better songs than

GOD

Mother

Don't let me Down

etc

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

If she hadn't suckered him into a relationship, she'd be living out her golden years a common housewife somewhere in Tokyo.

No talent whatsoever. (unless you call screeching under a blanket a talent)

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

she is a talentless charlatan and would be absolutely unknown without him, she has nothing to do with art and just a money grabbing

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

"Maybe we're just a bunch of deplorable musicians."

Closer than you think. Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

I never liked Yoko Ono.

As for being deplorable musicians, never felt that the beatles were that good when compared to other musicians from the UK and era

Like The Stones, Alan Parsons, etc

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@gogogo, Alex Einz, clamenza etc.

money grabbing ... only in it for the money etc.

Shows you what you know ...

Ono is from a super wealthy, or elite family. She went to school with Emperor Hirohito's two sons.

Not knowing what that means, probably also shows you that you know nothing about Japan.

She did not need the money then and she does not need the money now.

@ maria

The hostility shown towards her back in the 60s and 70s was undoubtedly largely down to bigotry,

and probably connected to feelings about Japan being the enemy in WW2. It has carried forward

to the present day for absolutely no good reason.

Yes, thank you. I'll add "utterly irrational" and State provoked racist bigotry on top of what was then a very divide racist society with a history of institutionalized racism towards Japan going back 100 years, never mind 20 years odd to the WWII/Pearl Harbor bs.

Lennon and Ono were of "particular interest" of the State/CIA etc because of their anti-war stance and left wing politics. People today perhaps do not appreciate what a huge and outspoken figure Lennon was back then. I'd see their hand, in collusion with a right wing reactionary press, behind the racism that was deliberately whipped to damage the couple.

Why Julian wasn’t named in John’s will, I have no idea but it must have been for a reason and was John's decision. What business is it of ours? I'd be hesitant to have out a fortune to an addict too.

Cynthia herself admitted it was not Yoko Ono who broke their marriage but singer Alma Cogan with whom John had an affair.

But again, the racist 'anti-Yoko' trolls do not care to know this either. It's really pathetic to discover them still at it 40 years on. I wonder what they made of their lives in the meanwhile.

Like her or not, that is a matter of taste and understanding, but Yoko is still significant Japanese artist, quite unique for having got out of Japan at that time.

And she's probably given more to numerous charities than all the trolls put together.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Thank you, Hammerhead. You said everything I was thinking perfectly...

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Hammerhead, Why Julian wasn’t named in John’s will, I have no idea but it must have been for a reason and was John's decision. What business is it of ours? I'd be hesitant to have out a fortune to an addict too.

Huh?? When John died, Julian was a 14 year old schoolboy and not involved in drug use, thanks very much.

The rest of your post is equally inaccurate.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

To quote Lennon in one of his final interviews, "Julian came out of a bottle of whiskey on a Saturday night.

Sean was a planned child and we love him".

Nice. This little nugget of a message sent out to his already emotionally abused (from his father) son.

Nice one John. Love is all you need.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Kestrel:

When John died, Julian was a 14 year old schoolboy

No. You are wrong.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@clamenza

He was seventeen, four months short of his eighteenth birthday. Not that it matters....

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Back on topic please.

I just feel like if Yoko really had an influence in Imagine, it would sound like there'd be some women yelling senselessly in the background while John is singing.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Yoko Ono did not pursue Lennon and didn't want a relationship with him. She wasn't in need of his money since she was the daughter of a rich Tokyo banking family, during WWII, she took shelter along with members of the imperial family in the caves in Matsushiro, Nagano.

She was and still is a visual artist in her own right, I enjoy much of her work and ideas. Lennon pursued her and their love began.

She has done much to keep alive the memory of John Lennon, we both attended the Liverpool School of Art but I never knew him. I did know the first Beatles manager Alan Williams and others like Lord Woodbine. All part of a very strong Liverpool music scene, Merseybeat.

Yoko Ono is considered a daughter of Liverpool and well respected and continues to hold exhibitions there.

Much of what she does and also Paul Mccartney does, like money donations happen behind the public seeking scenes and often only known by those involved.

Difficult to make judgements when the facts are never fully revealed. But like all families, there are always personal problems and woes.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Yokos ex-husband, Tony Cox, said Yoko planned for to get together with a beatle. Any one of them would do. And in fact she first approached paul who, sensibly, rebuffed her.

Cox ,btw, had no axe to grind and kept a very low profile. You"ll be hard pressed to find interviews with him. Spent much of his time trying to keep their daughter Kyoko out of Yokos clutches as Yoko, by her own admission, was a very poor parent.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Alex Einz

she is a talentless charlatan and would be absolutely unknown without him, she has nothing to do with art and just a money grabbing

Right.

That's why the Museum of Modern Art in New York would run retrospectives of her work (2015), The Venice Biennale recognise her a lifetime achievement award, Austria, Germany, the UK, Spain, Japan also running retrospectives of her work.

That just happens if you are talentless, right? Pffft.

Have a go, and see how you do. By your reasoning, you are fair chance of a retrospective at MOMA, in, say, 20 Years.

I eagerly await the show.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The worst thing to ever happen to the Beatles and John Lennon was Yoko Ono.

That just happens if you are talentless, right? Pffft.

That's what happens when you were married to John Lennon, inherited his wealth, and tirelessly support social causes (which is a good thing). But Yoko Ono has as much artistic talent as your average 9-year-old child.

Just look at the people who receive the Nobel Peace prize nowadays.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

She is highly regarded and decorated in the Art world.

She is also philanthropist, a strong promoter of Human rights and a generous donator to disaster funds such as the Japanese Tsunami.

Outstanding Human, in my opinion.

There's a lady who's sure / All that glitters is gold / And she's buying a stairway to heaven. / When she gets there she knows............

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

The rage against Yoko in the US was coordinated because she was Asian at a time when the Establishment was whipping up Anti-Asian racism to wage immorals wars against Asians.

To have such a high profile and outstanding Asian taking such a high profile stand against the War was a genuine threat to the vicious and immoral government of that time.

The kind of people who criticize her and her art are the kind of people who would have been cheering the Government on and know nothing about modern conceptual art, the "my child could have done that" mentality ... of which we read a literally example here, re the "as much talent as a 9 year old child".

An equally moronic, over used, unimaginative and tiresome trope.

Sure, your child could paint a Mondrian but only after Mondrain did, or climb inside a bag but it still would not make it art. The nature of art is above their heads and, quite frankly, so much so they are no more part of the discussion of art, than monkeys in a zoo.

The “WAR IS OVER – If You Want It” campaign was a good enough piece to have retired on for the rest of one's life. There was probably no one else in the world who could have pulled it off except for John and Yoko at that time, and no one else had the balls to try it.

Mohammed Ali came close. Elvis could have but by them he was already metaphorically dead, having been killed off the military himself (note: metaphorically dead). No painterly artist could have. It took a conceptual artist to do so. And that it was a tiny, unassuming, Asian woman to do at that time is outstanding.

Most people still have not got a clue what conceptual art is and it shows the power of good conceptual art.

http://imaginepeace.com/warisover/

"*When we stick posters around saying, “WAR IS OVER – If You Want It”, what we’re trying to promote is an awareness in people of how much power they have, and not to rely on the government, or leaders, or teachers so much that they’re all passive or automatons. They have to have new hope. *

Everybody’s looking for goals and answers; the youth especially.

What we’re trying to tell them is that “You are the goal. Nobody on earth can do it for you. Whatever it is you want, you must do it yourself.”

- John Lennon, 1969

Yoko Ono was the "High Priestess of the Happening" and a pioneer in performance art well before her famous partnership with John Lennon and her work were some of the movement's earliest and most daring.

She was also one of the strongest feminist voices to emerge from the art world in the 60s.

The people who attack her are probably still cheering on "our boys" in Iraq and Afghanistan, still don't understand contemporary art, and were never invited to the party. They are just rolling out the same old memes time and time again.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Personal aspects aside, Yoko's artistic influence upon John was also profund and, as a piece, 'Imagine' continues to reverberate which is quite an achievement. Very few of human beings have had the power to threaten a government merely by saying, "Imagine Peace".

The mass market/proletariat were uncomfortable with this. They wanted their "cheeky chappie", variety night entertainer, boy band, with a "dream" blonde girlfriend/wife. What he described later, and who still are today, "performing fleas".

They did not want to be made to question and be challenged, let alone me led to challenge their government. All they wanted was, "She Loves You" and "Yeah, Yeah, Yeah". Still good songs but nothing as powerful as "Imagine" or “Woman Is The N----- of The World”.

There's a fair discussion to be had over the nature, consistency and quality of Ono's art and its influence, the troll barfing over here are not qualified to be part of it. For exampe, to compare Cynthia's artistic legacy against her would be cruel.

John may not have been God but he certain was bigger than Jesus at one point, and Yoko was his Mary.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

But Hammerhead, Cynthia didnt make any big claim to being an artist.

I think many peopkes problem with yoko ono is that shes a talentless pretender (altough I do believe she long ago convinced herself that she really is a legitimate artist, so shes delusional too. )

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

But Yoko Ono has as much artistic talent as your average 9-year-old child.

The predictably ignorant ballad of the intellectually indolent.

It's not her fault you don't get it.

And I've taught your average 9 year old's Visual Art. I can assure you you are wrong. Of course.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Hammerhead, Tamarama, youve swallowed the myth.

Back to Imagine - Lennon stated just once (in 1980) yoko shouldve gotten a credit for the song. Apart from the fact that john was always contradicting himself and saying things for publicity ( at the time of this statement his new album was about to come out). WHY didnt he actually get her credited?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Btw, if onos book grapefruit inspired him to write imagine and that earns her a credit on the song then what about all the times lennon cited chuck berry (among others) as an influence on his writing? Whats next??

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

It would be good to know what the art credentials of any criticizing Ono's part in art history.

Here's another example of the double standards in this discussion. Cynthia - who, let's be honest, had bad luck with men - most certainly did promote herself as an artist and used Lennon's name to do so, although she was more of an illustrator than an artist. 

She also auctioned off mementos of Lennon's for years after his death, not even saving them for her own son, Julian, who the trolls accuse Yoko of neglecting.

What second wife looks after the child of a first wife?

We have no idea what was said between different parties in the past, so it is not really for us to judge. Once you become an artist of Ono's stature, you are also no longer a single person but a corporation. Who knows if she even knows what went to auction and what did not? That's a job for assistants to do and assistants sometmes screw up.

Let us remember we are talking about the time of the Civil Rights Movement in America where anti-miscegenation laws remained until 1967. It was virtually an apartheid nation and the media and TV still away with John Wayne, Richard Widmark and Jack Palance movie of marines "Slapping Japs" in the Pacific War, a population who used to carry, ""Jap hunting licenses" authorizing "open season" on hunting Japanese (within the USA).

Merely 20 years before, Japanese-Americans were being incarcerated in American concentration camps, their land seized by government, and their economic life made as uncomfortable and unprofitable as legally possibly.

For many of them, Yoko was the first real Japanese they "met" - he face all over the media - and a lightning rod for earthing their irrational race hate. Even moreso, she was challenging American Hegemonic Imperialism in Asia and its slaughter and rape of even more innocent Asian women and children.

Does not take a psychologist to work out what was going on and what continues to reverberate to this day.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Hammerhead - Thanks.

Many still "Don't get it!"

0 ( +1 / -1 )

@Hammerhead, "What second wife looks after the child of a first wife?"

Seriously? In the real world many many do.

In the talk is cheap "Imagine" world of empty words and hypocrisy we can look to yoko ono for the answer.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Your response is rather disingenuous. Allow me to spelt it out for you, and completed that sentence,

"What second wife looks after the child of a first wife ... when the first wife is still alive?"

Who knows what words were passed between Julian and Yoko. Who knows the true nature of Cynthia's and John's relationship. They are private matters between the individuals involved. What right to we have to pry?

John acknowledged his faults and his early chauvinism. As artists do, they grow. John was growing at a much faster rate than Cynthia, something she mentioned herself (the incident of the train leaving the station as he sped off to meet the Maharishi. Yoko from the point of her very different cultural and life experiences provided context and inspiration for that much growth. John ended up something very different from the "Boy Band" member he was, and the world was enriched by it. Much moreso than if he stay at home with the wife and kid in a semi-detached in Merseyside.

So what's is your point? What is your moral position based on?

I'd start by listening to listening to Lennon's "Woman".

I am afraid all the judgement reeks of an excuse to justify and vent individuals' racism and cultural ignorance. Something the right press in the UK and US whipped up at the time and continues to do so.

Meanwhile, Julian has actually come out and suggested that Yoko may have done him a favour by making him wait 16 years before allowing him any money from the estate. He ended up earning a reported £20 million for doing no more than being a lucky (whiskey powered) spermatozoon, at an age and maturity where he did not blow it all on drugs and fast living.

Like I say, what other family's business is our? How can we judge without knowing all the facts? Who saw Julian's writ against Yoko? I can imagine that was pretty nasty.

May be if Mark David Chapman's father had not been drunk on a Saturday night, John would have lived long enough to have continued to grow, mended more of his ways and patched up their relationships. All the evidence suggest he was.

It's a paradox that Chapman's father, a US military man, was also abusive towards his mother and unloving towards his son, Mark, who lived in fear of him.

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Of course, a lot of wealth parents - and many poor ones - would equally agree with the position that their children should make their own way in the world, and that it is not good for them to be handed a silver spoon in their mouth.

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Hammerhead, who's being disingenuous? "John was growing at a much faster rate than Cynthia". OH really? So he doesn't leave their son any money in his will? YEah, that's growth.

Btw, worried that Julian would blow it all on drugs ( leaving aside that the poor kid was a pretty good kid with no indications of drug use)? EVer heard of a trust fund?

I listened to Woman, and once was enough. GEorge hArrison listened to it too, and worried that johns creativity had dried up. Anyway, listen to it for what - indications of johns thinking and "growth"? WE know from Imagine that he didn't follow the advice of his own lyrics.

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Hammerhead, riiiigght - silver spoon bad. Oh, but its fine for Sean. Well, John said many times that it was yoko - or "mother" as he called her ( isnt that telling?) that made his decisions for him so Its fair to say cutting Julian out of the will was the co-writer of Imagine's idea. Despicably, John agreed.

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John he did leave Julian money, although it was not in his Will, which was a public document, it was in the form of trusts, that are quite rightly private.

A trust with about £ 250,000 was set up for Julian to receive when he turned 25 (it started at £100,000, with Cynthia receiving the annual interest which at the time was 10% or over).

£250,000 in 1967 is worth about £4,275,000 in 2017

Furthermore, in the original divorce settlement, John voluntarily gave Cynthia £100,000 (£1,710,000), which he quite accurately described as "akin to winning the football pools" saying that she was not worth any more, Julian was to receive £2,400 a year

£2,400 in 1967 is worth about £41,040.70 in 2017

(Average UK Salary is £27,000)

£100,000 in 1967 is worth about £1,710,000 in 2017

plus 10% interest on the trust

£10,000 in 1967 is worth about £171,002.92 in 2017

Therefore, the pair had an £13.5 million mansion in Surrey, £1,700,000 in the bank, and about £230,000 per year to live off for doing nothing and having done nothing.

Does that seem an unreasonable reward for being a "saturday night special"?

Possibly I have a slight advantage over you of a) having worked with international artists and b) having friend who worked with Julian.

In 1991, Cynthia sold all of her Lennon memorabilia for £60,000, so Julian could not have it.

£60,000 in 1991 → £121,361.10 in 2017

Cynthia knew what John was like before she got into bed with, before she got pregnant, knew he was unfaithful. Why wasn't she using contraception in the first place? And where did the money go?

She went on to try and launch a perfume called Woman (bizarre because the song was about Yoko), and a restaurant called Lennon’s (which served Rubber Sole) having changed her name back to being Lennon by deed poll for the sake of her career. None were successful.

One last paradox here. Someone here attacking Ono was nasty about a teacher of children being a failed artist. Cynthia studied to qualify as an art teacher and failed. Getting pregnant is a career path for many women, I think Cynthia - and Julian - did very well out it.

Excuse me going into detail but I wanted to show you and others how prejudices are formed out of ignorance.

Yoko's net worth is estimated to be around $600m, so I'm fairly sure she won't be concerned if you don't buy her art, her charity work, or her peace activism.

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who DOES buy yokos art? Private collecters? I dont think so.

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Typically, her "big pieces" sell for $10,000s at auction, e.g. $40,000 to $110,000, but many small mementos sell for the low $100s to low $1,000s.

She is not really a commercial artist and her major works rarely make it to the auction houses. She does not need to sell to live and work.

Remember, however, that during the height of her productivity, she would be found along with the likes of John Cage, Marcel Duchamp, Peggy Guggenheim, Isamu Noguchi, Jasper Johns, Robert Rauschenberg and the likes.

She had a one woman retrospective show at MoMA in 2015.

If you know what any of that means culturally.

Funnily enough, Carolee Schneemann famously said of her relationship with Lennon:

Frankly, we all wondered if this… this… rock and roll guy was going to be smart enough for her.

As to her relationship with the rock and roll guy's early fans, well, we history records that. I'd compare it to the scene in Space Odyssey (2001) with the monkeys and the monoliths.

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I just found one piece (Grapefruit) that sold for $485,000 USD at Sotheby's

Given Yoko still own most of her own work, you can image what it will be worth when she dies.

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You cannot really buy conceptual artworks, however, you can commission them for gallery or site specific pieces, which is the kind of work she does.

At 83 Yoko is still working internationally - which has to be admired, not many octogenarians are - receiving not just installation offers but also curatorships - and she runs various campaigns and awards with blur the boundaries between art and political activism.

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"I don't think so".

Gone quiet have you, Kestrel?

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HammerheadToday  12:04 pm JST

"I don't think so".

Gone quiet have you, Kestrel?

Btw, it would be remiss of me not to call you, tamarama, and some others here out on your playing of the "racist mysoginist" card to respond to criticism of yoko ono.

I assure you I criticise all "art" charlatans irrespective of gender or ethnicity. Btw, Ive met a few japanese women who can't stand yoko ono either. I wonder how you'd label them for daring to question the myth of yoko?

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On what basis do you judge who is an "art charlatans"

I'd say most young Japanese women think she is cool, but know little of her past.

Based on the facts I have presented, it would appear your obsession is with a mythic Ono rather than the real one.

Of course, if it give you pleasure attacking an 83 year woman who is still working, creating and campaigning ... despite spending much of her time in a wheelchair ... then go ahead.

But learn the facts and a bit about art history first.

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