entertainment

Long sidelined at the Grammys, women in rock claim their due

26 Comments
By Maggy DONALDSON

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Point: “*Yet women have always been influential in rock**: Patti Smith, Kim Gordon, Stevie Nicks and Debbie Harry are just a few key household names that have led the way.”*

2 ( +3 / -1 )

And this gem: “And the rap world, long stereotyped as a boys' club

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Agreed. “...hope these are shifts in consciousness -- not just affirmative action,"

2 ( +3 / -1 )

So Maggy DONALDSON here really wants a politically correct article, but she writes it in the most anti-men extreme feminism style. Let us dissect her amateurish approach: start with a mildly disgusting intro:

"The Grammys' rock categories normally ooze testosterone"

And make it all well by adding the but and the remedy:

"but this year, women-led acts have seized the mic." -whew, we're all saved.

.. So, ahem, what was it oozing this year, if I may ask?

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Joan Jett baby! Loved her when I was a kid.

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Because @ebisen 7:59a, she is ‘freelance’ and* will write whatever and however*** editors would like **to pay her. Her bio and samples from ‘muckrake’: “music, pop life, NY odds & ends for @AFP after stint in DC | Previously @wnyc / @AP Paris | @newsguild member | tweets are where the heart is”. The onus and intent here is on editors and their agenda.

https://muckrack.com/maggy-donaldson/articles

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

Snowy mountains, thank you for taking your time and sharing her work, but it's really not something we, the readers, should care about. I'm just pointing out that recently, anti-men attitudes and racism against whites ( she did manage to squeeze that as well in her pitiful article) are perfectly acceptable and have almost became requirements for getting published.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

anti-men attitudes 

Pointing out sexism isn't anti-male. Sexism hurts men, too.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Agreed @ebisen 8:53am. And Agreed @girlin Tokyo 9:04am. - If writers and editors truly don’t want women in music to be sidelined, then ****why have they ‘piled on a 7 member Korean boy band AND a male Jpop star on top of’ poor Taylor Swift. She’s been relegated to a side note in a mostly, inconsequential third paragraph in today’s other ‘Entertainment’ music awards article. We’re sure they’re ‘oozing testosterone’ all over the place there.

It’s all just ‘virtue signaling’ by publishers, music industry and Hollywood that they’re ‘behind women’ and diversity. Just give us one story about all award nominees without the continued political slant.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Pointing out sexism isn't anti-male.

But taking the stance that men are to be considered guilty based purely on an accusation, is.

Sexism hurts men, too.

Exactly.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Oops, bad quoting.

Pointing out sexism isn't anti-male.

But taking the stance that men are to be considered guilty based purely on an accusation, is.

Sexism hurts men, too.

Exactly.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Take the article for what it is. Women are getting recognized for their talent in rock and roll.

Brittany Howard's excellent and Phoebe Bridgers is awesome. 'Kyoto' is a great tune!

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

*Point: “*Yet women have always been influential in rock**: Patti Smith, Kim Gordon, Stevie Nicks and Debbie Harry are just a few key household names that have led the way.”**

You can go much further actually. Mary Ford was definitely the pioneering woman (one of my favorites) that pretty much opened the door for all these women that would enter the world of Rock & Roll, let’s also not forget: Janis Joplin, Grace Slick, Lita Ford, Suzy Quattro, Tina Turner there are a lot of great women that showed the world that they can rock their butts off and brought a depth and richness to the genre.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Fiona Apple, Phoebe Bridgers, sister group Haim, Brittany Howard, Grace Potter, and the Adrianne Lenker-fronted band Big Thief.

While all of these are great, are they really rock? The Grammys seem outdated and the categories strangely arbitrary. Don't they just give the prizes to whoever sold the most in the past year? That's always been my impression, although I pay little attention to it.

Adrianne Lenker is terrific: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQdpd6iHTbM

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Apple -- whose 2020 record "Fetch The Bolt Cutters" was hailed by the music authority Pitchfork as "an unyielding masterpiece" -- first found success in the late 1990s

"Fetch the Bolt Cutters" has some nice moments and clearly shows off Fiona Apple's immense musical talents, but is a completely overrated album. Pitchfork awarding the album a "perfect 10" rating - its first in a decade - is ridiculous. Pitchfork wasn't alone - lots of media went nuts over this one. I just don't get it. I think people are propping it up in an effort to seem cultured or intellectual themselves (the album, like a lot of Apple's work, lends itself to that). I like Fiona - I just think the critical reaction to this one has gone way overboard.

I also want to second the comments from a lot of other posters - there have been plenty of women rockers throughout history that have been influential and amazing. Janis Joplin is a personal favorite of mine, and in more modern times the Amy Lee-fronted Evanescence has put out some astonishing work in the metal category.

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It's called show business, not show friends.

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I don't listen to much modern pop and rock, but when I used to, I can't remember the Grammys ever being remotely relevant.

The obvious mainstream choice for rock album of the year in 1980 would be Back in Black. You'd also have all kinds of amazing New Wave and early synth bands, Gary Numan etc. coming through. Who swept up at the Grammys? Yep, Christopher Cross

https://www.grammy.com/grammys/awards/23rd-annual-grammy-awards-1980

3 ( +3 / -0 )

The quiet persona and primal skin basher Meg White reached the upper tier of rock for a while, then completely vanished from music when her bandmate/ ex-husband wanted to do other work. Poignant that the prolific Jack White will always have Megs last name stamped on all his music--a planned turnabout to boost women or a happy coincidence?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Bjork. Stupendous talent.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

I don't know anything about the Grammys, but filled with panic after reading this insightful article, I checked my play list to realize that I am a sexist pig who listens to 70-80% male music. I immediately started searching for some Britney Spears, Spice Girls and Ariana Grande to make amends.

But in my pathetic defense, I did found some women in my collection: Etta James, Janis Joplin, Macy Gray, Norah Jones, Lhasa de Sela, Larkin Poe, Missy Elliot, Tedeschi Trucks Band, Valerie June, Dead Can Dance.

I don't think I have any transgender artists, so I have to correct my erroneous ways immediately. Fortunately, I like blues music, so I have enough black people in the list, safe. I do have some Japanese and Latin guys, so I just have to find some more Eskimos' music to be of the virtuous side.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

There was a lot of reprehensible erasing of plus size women, who are often the strongest vocalists. Check out the legal saga of Martha Wash and others to be given dues.

The great 70s R n B group Stylistics often had what sound to me like women lead vocals, but the compilation I have only shows five fellas. Are we getting the full picture or were talented women consigned to the shadows of the studio?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Why are there so many guys who are so insecure and paranoid that any time there is any mention of promoting women in any field they freak out and start getting all upset about it?

If the scales get rebalanced a bit and it allows a wider range of artists to get their work out there then surely that's great for everyone?

There have been some badass female bands and artists recently, which is great, but it's hardly the end of the road for male artists. I'm sure they'll be fine, as will you.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Women molded rock's evolution -- blues pioneer Big Mama Thornton, for example, was the first to record "Hound Dog," the seminal hit now strongly associated with Elvis Presley.

That's a pretty big statement. Thornton was a great blues/R&B artist, but not a rock singer, and it seems odd to make a claim like that for her singing a hit song written by two guys while at the same time disrespecting the likes of Aretha Franklin, the Supremes, Gladys Knight, and the many other female artists who were a formative part of the massively influential 60s soul scene, or Dusty Springfield's white soul and Sandie Shaw's classy pop in 60s Britain, or Janis Joplin and Grace Slick in the USA. Just to mention a few.

That claim should really be made for the likes of Chrissie Hynde and the Pretenders in the 70s (a female-led band! With guys backing her up!) along with, as mentioned in the article, Patti Smith, Debbie Harry, Stevie Nicks and many others.

When you consider the now almost seven decades of what might be called contemporary rock music, it's only very recently that women artists in rock have been getting an appropriate degree of acceptance and recognition. The Grammys, though? Always been a commercial, Music Industry with a capital "I", back-slapping kiss-of-death glitz fest. Still, I guess if you're going to have it, women should have as much chance of getting the whole package as men do.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

It won't be like 70s music festival though.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Quote

Women molded rock's evolution --

One very very old example of a stupidly rediculous statement. Let's look at that minute supporting evidence then. Presley covered it and turned it into rock n roll. Before it was actually an RnB recording. Presley and bill hailey and little richard too created rock n roll. Elvis covered many records, not just hers.

Let's see

The beatles

The rolling stones

The who

Jimi hendrix

Queen

Metallica

Osais

Iron maiden

Acdc

Bon jovi

Kiss

Led zep

The hives

Radio head

Lynrd skynard

Spinal tap

Some of the biggest names in rock...not many women in them

Pure pure woke liberal toss again ... The world is totally f@@ked

3 ( +3 / -0 )

kohakuebisuMar. 13  10:16 am JST

I don't listen to much modern pop and rock, but when I used to, I can't remember the Grammys ever being remotely relevant.

The obvious mainstream choice for rock album of the year in 1980 would be Back in Black. You'd also have all kinds of amazing New Wave and early synth bands, Gary Numan etc. coming through. Who swept up at the Grammys? Yep, Christopher Cross

And where is he now? At the same time we had women rockers like Debby Harry, Pat Benatar, Joan Jett, Heart, GoGos, Chrissy Hynde, Wendy O'Williams, later the Bangles and more. Real solid rockers who wrote, sang, played instruments - not this overchoriographed lip-synching crap. There's some seious all woman bands out there now like the Plastiscines from France, Shonen Knife from Japan, the Courtneys from Canada, Les Butcherettes from Mexico, L7, and others that need our attention. Phoebe Bridgers is good, Fiona Apple is alright but I don't like her current CD, and while I think Big Thief is overrated and boring, I love those two CDs ('Songs' and 'Instrumentals') that Adrianne Lenker recently put out.

We shouldn't be debating over the'diversity' issue as the question really boils to this: 'Does the artist or band being focused here have the talent and knack for it or not?'. Either you got it in you, or you don't.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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