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Sex to boost film career is not rape: Weinstein lawyer

102 Comments
By ROBYN BECK

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Sex to advance your career is prostitution.

24 ( +33 / -9 )

If you're in a position to award roles to people and you are known to offer those roles only to people who have had sex with you... it's really not much different to rape.

If someone is using sex to boost their own career... then I agree with Burning Bush.

2 ( +16 / -14 )

typical douchebag defense

2 ( +18 / -16 )

Has nothing to do with what Weinstein is accused of. This ahole is trying to confuse the issue and win support. Don't be fooled.

4 ( +16 / -12 )

miss_oikawaToday  08:32 am JST

Has nothing to do with what Weinstein is accused of. This ahole is trying to confuse the issue and win support. Don't be fooled.

It's a particularly scumbag argument because as you say, Weinstein is not accused of "letting women sleep with him to advance their careers" but the misogynists who follow this case now have been given permission to call the women who accuse him of other things "whores" in order to discredit them through trolling.

-1 ( +13 / -14 )

While I agree that selling sex to advance your career is far removed from rape, I think the issue here is more to do with power harassment right? Using power and ones position to compel sex, etc. with the possibility of career advancement on the side

10 ( +16 / -6 )

Dcog, while this is obvious Western decadence at play, I would like to remind everyone that the females did not adamantly refuse the opportunity to "boost" their career. They simply came out with several decades past the fact. Because, apparently, their careers got "boosted" enough not to crumble after the world sees them for lowly vane actresses. If they are actresses, and not moving dolls.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

When a woman who refuses to have sex with him, sees her career deliberately wrecked, what does the lawyer call that?

12 ( +19 / -7 )

Wow! Has the USA fallen THAT low? How about sex for good grades is "not rape"? Etc etc etc.

-2 ( +10 / -12 )

Wow! Has the USA fallen THAT low

No. Just Hollywood.

10 ( +15 / -5 )

Let's think about this in terms most JT readers can understand. Do you want a good grade in your English class?

-3 ( +8 / -11 )

Sex to advance your career is prostitution

It is also consensual which is his point. You mean some of these victims are like prostitutes?

11 ( +16 / -5 )

It depends on whether the threat exists that if they don’t do it, their careers will be over. If that threat doesn’t exist, and both parties are willing, then there is no problem (with the sex). If the threat does exist however, it’s coercion which is rape.

13 ( +20 / -7 )

If you're in a position to award roles to people and you are known to offer those roles only to people who have had sex with you... it's really not much different to rape.

How is it rape? Not arguing but trying to understand your thinking.

3 ( +11 / -8 )

How is it rape? Not arguing but trying to understand your thinking.

Strangerland said it best.

If the threat does exist however, it’s coercion which is rape.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

LMAO....ROFL...~ ~ ~

.O.K...well, there you HAVE it, that's "HollyWeird", in a Nutshell..."WHATEVER it TAKES".

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

quercetumToday  09:44 am JST

If you're in a position to award roles to people and you are known to offer those roles only to people who have had sex with you... it's really not much different to rape.

How is it rape?

Sexual acts committed without continuous, enthusiastic consent are sex acts committed without consent. Sexual acts committed without consent are non-consensual. Non-consensual sex is rape.

"Have sex with me or your career will be ruined by my massive media empire," is rationally speaking, no different from, "Have sex with me or your neck will be ruined by my knife." Agreeing to sex as an alternative to being destroyed isn't really agreeing to sex.

Of course, there has always been a community of men committed to not comprehending this idea because understanding it would mean re-examining their entire approach to women.

-1 ( +12 / -13 )

Coercion is not rape.

The actresses have the ability to say no.

4 ( +18 / -14 )

Coercion is not rape. 

The actresses have the ability to say no.

With the threat of their career being destroyed... yes... It is rape.

-6 ( +9 / -15 )

With the threat of their career being destroyed... yes... It is rape.

thats power harassment. Rape is rape.

Please don't cheapen actual rape victims.

8 ( +19 / -11 )

He requested sex in exchange for stardom.

If they had an opportunity to walk away, and I think they did, it wasn’t rape.

6 ( +15 / -9 )

What rape is as defined legally is much more specific as to how individuals feel. I'm hopeful we can continue this conversation, including all the impacts this has. There are several others' who are impacted by not being anywhere around The casting couch. What about them? They are not even seen. Sex? People use it as power, note that I said 'people'.

7 ( +8 / -1 )

Somebody going through a sexually act at the threat of career destruction is not a willing participant. That is rape. Rape is also a form of power harassment. Nothing is being cheapened.

-7 ( +5 / -12 )

That's terrible and pathetic.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Folks, like I said when this crap crawled out into the light, HOLLYWOOD IS A CESSPOOL!!!

And for ALL the people their, NOT just women, ALL the men & women in Hollywood are free to participate in the cesspool or NOT, those that DO, need to take osme ownership of their actions.

Another thing which in Hollywood & society at large MOST people forget is that MEN are also tangled up in the cesspool that is Hollywood!

Do you honestly think there have been no men on the casting couches??? What about them?...............

As usual with so many things no one even considers or cares what happens to men, even other men!

All the people in the cesspool that is Hollywood, have made their choices.

Does that mean I think Weinstein did nothing wrong, NO, the guy is a SCUMBAG, clearly.

Just a member of the cesspool that all these people volunteered to participate, there are OTHER lines of work out there ya know.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

For men the choices are even more dire...

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Well if that’s the lawyer’s perspective I guess it makes sense, could also mean that some of the women who agreed were better at sex than acting. :-/

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Coercion is rape. And the lawyer is using a slimy defence to legitimize rape. This vile act masquerading as coercion will continue as long as people continue to make excuses for using women.

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

This is his defence This isthe best he and his vile lawyer can come up with? Attacking the victims is an old and oft use tactic in cases of sexual assault. Fortunately, many people are increasingly finding this approach abhorrent. I'd love to see this put to a jury.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

go ask an actual victim of rape if the option to say yes or no qualifies.

sad, that the usual suspects continue to cheapen actual victims by insisting everyone is a victim.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

"If a woman decides that she needs to have sex with a Hollywood producer to advance her career and actually does it and finds the whole thing offensive, that's not rape," he told The Times.

Hmmm, ok. And?

More than 100 women have accused Weinstein of impropriety going back 40 years, but Brafman argued there was no criminal behaviour.

Wrong. Abuse of power, power/sexual harassment or whatever you want to call it, is a legally reprehensible crime. Weinstein's lawyer is clearly trying to sidetrack any potential prosecution here. Oldest trick in the book.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Attacking the victims is an old and oft use tactic in cases of sexual assault. Fortunately, many people are increasingly finding this approach abhorrent.

Indeed. Seeking to play down the crime, and focus the blame towards the victims. Trying to muddy the waters and lessen sexual assault. It's not going to fly.

Weinstein is just the tip of the iceberg. But the more people who come forward, will make it harder for rape apologists to obfuscate.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Weinstein will get his due.

But sad that the usual suspects continue with the morally reprehensible, irresponsible, man-hating feminist message that all men are potential rapists and all girls are victims.

The disastrous results are damaging the fabric of society.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Ben Brafman is Weinstein's lawyer and highly paid to mouth and publicly defend him but Weinstein needs to man up and accept responsibility for his actions and not worm is way out of his bad behavior. Turning the attention to the victim is an age old tactic.

She was drunk. She wore short skirts. She had many men. She wanted it.

Once a slime ball always a slime ball.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Weinstein will probably get away with it as long as the narrative that seeks to blame women remains.

No tactic is beneath them, from claims that women who speak out against the predators are man haters to making out that feminism is wrong etc.

Feminism is standing up to the patriarchal status quo that apologists for rape seek to maintain.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Feminism is standing up to the patriarchal status quo that apologists for rape seek to maintain.

false on so many levels I lost count.

-4 ( +5 / -9 )

One has only to look at the adoration from misogynists towards sexual predators like the current PotUS or the Alabama monster.

They care not one jot for women's safety. If they did, they would be as vociferous in their condemnation of such men as they are towards the rapists and molesters in Hollywood and beyond.

Ask yourself how these vile men get away with it? Because there are those who not only enable but celebrate their barbaric behaviour.

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

I do not know of this newly being revealed custom, but it seems to be at least both power harassment on the part of the boss and fraud on someone's part--as a commenter noted, success in sex does not signify or prove success in the work of acting! Is the victim of the power harassment also guilty of committing fraud by procuring an acting job with "credentials" unrelated to the task? This seems harsh considering the context of power harassment and (at that time) the lack of well-known recourse for the underdogs.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Quid pro quo is not rape. If it was then prostitution would be considered rape. Coersion complicates things but still should not be considered rape. Only when the choice is taken away, is it rape.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Coersion complicates things but still should not be considered rape. Only when the choice is taken away, is it rape.

If I hold a knife to your throat and tell you I’ll kill you if you don’t have sex with me, that’s rape (well the sex is). If I go up to you and tell you I’m going to kill your family if you don’t have sex with me, that’s rape.

In both cases, the person theoretically has a choice. And both are rape.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Laws of different countries differ.

Sexual Abuse:Sexual abuse can include many different things, from touching a victim in a sexual manner to forcing a victim to touch the perpetrator in a sexual way to making a victim look at sexual body parts or watch sexual activity. Sexual abuse of a child is a criminal act.

Rape:definition of rape as “penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.”

Sexual assault:Sexual violence includes using false promises, insistent pressure, abusive comments or reputational threats to coerce sex acts. It can encompass noncontact acts like catcalls and whistles, which can make women feel objectified and victimized. It includes nonconsensual electronic sharing of explicit images, exposure of genitals and surreptitious viewing of others naked or during sex.

Sexual harassment:Sexual harassment is a much broader term than sexual assault, encompassing three categories of impermissible behavior. unwanted sexual attention. unwanted touching, hugging, stroking, kissing, relentless pressure for dates or sexual behavior.

To constitute unlawful sexual harassment, the sexual advances must be unwelcome and unpleasant to the recipient. They must be “sufficiently severe or pervasive” to “create an abusive working environment,”

0 ( +4 / -4 )

The lawyer's right "sleeping with someone to further her career is not rape" its sleazy but its not rape these women were willing participants, just because they regretted their "actions" its still not rape. In Rose McGowan's case she didn't hesitate in taking the money and toe further her career they as soon as her career started heading down hill she ditched Weinstein and claimed victim if she was a genuine victim she would have just gone to the police.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

if she was a genuine victim she would have just gone to the police.

What? You realize that it doesn’t actually happen that way the majority of the time in this place called ‘the real world’, right?

5 ( +6 / -1 )

OK, so after all these comments, I still as, has the USA fallen so low? (and not just Hollywood)

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

In both cases, the person theoretically has a choice. And both are rape.

Is that what Weinstein did?

No?

was it a job up for grabs?

Yes?

another horrific analogy...

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

What? You realize that it doesn’t actually happen that way the majority of the time in this place called ‘the real world’, right?

Suddenly Hollywood is the “real world “?

after you’ve slammed it time and again for being a sleaze pit?

-6 ( +4 / -10 )

With the threat of their career being destroyed... yes... It is rape.

thats power harassment. Rape is rape.

Please don't cheapen actual rape victims.

I’d have to agree with Clemenza. What would you call rape then? Real rape?

https://youtu.be/Bck8pqwXxT0

In the video linked above, replace “have dinner with me” with “have sex with me” or be fired and “Nancy” then sleeps with her boss to keep her job, is considered power harassment not rape.

By calling it rape it is excusing the victim of the responsibility of the erroneous decision and the obligation to report not to mention disregarding the difference for rape victims.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Strangerland:

If a man walks up to a prostitute and says "I refuse to pay you money unless you have sex with me, no money means you and your kids might be hungry tonight"

The prostitute needs money, the John has it.

Is it rape if she agrees to his deal?

-6 ( +3 / -9 )

Oh, here we go with the accusations again.

Yeah. Victims should "man up" and suffer in silence.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Coercion complicates things but still should not be considered rape.

By most definitions of coercion (a threat of harm), it is rape. I think there is a difference between between doing something to avoid harm and doing something to gain a reward. We can debate whether "harm to a career" constitutes harm in the regular sense. However, I understand Weinstein's alleged actions fall on both sides of that line. I think most people will agree he's a scumbag.

6 ( +6 / -0 )

The lawyer is right. Having sex to advance one's career is not rape. Expecting sex in return for career advancement is sexual harassment at the workplace, but laws against that type of sexual harassment are relatively recent and may not cover some of the accusations about alleged events from years ago.

As recently as last year, my brother was proud of the acting gigs he got his wife who had no training or job experience in film prior to marrying him. It was quite common in the film industry to offer gigs to the romantic partners of people in the production side of film.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

Regardless how one feels about this, I don't see a criminal conviction as there is no evidence besides "he said, she said." No rpe kit and several years to decades after the fact. Civil charges, probably, as the bar for proof is set lower. He will likely be much poorer.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Further, Weinstein could sue for damages from the actresses for reputation (if found not guilty); or, if found guilty, could sue for all the money made from his supposed advancement of their careers. Not saying he would win, just saying he could.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

The price for fame and vast wealth and then when achieved - regret perhaps or just getting on the band wagon to perpetuate the career.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

He should get 66 yeas in jail and be sterilised to stop his career.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Some of the comments here are sickening. Call women prostitues because they want a career and felt pressured to sleep with a disgusting man. Suggesting that it was consensual rather than coersion. Some of you really need to look yourselves in the mirror and realize you’re part of the issue.

This man held power over hundreds/thousands of women. Rather than ask why he was demanding sex, you’d rather paint the women as whores. Why not put yourself in the situation of the women. Though I guess most of you can’t because you’ve never had someone larger and more powerful threaten your career if you didn’t do as you were told. Many women have been in the situation which is why I guess none of them are making derogatory remarks like so many male posters. Rape doesn’t have to be a gun point. It doesn’t mean you have to be forced down. There is a fine line between coercion and rape and this lawyer is clearly playing that card. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t sexual assault and harassment though. But you know, all those women are whores who should’ve said no and gone to the police, right? Some of you are so clueless it hurts.

-1 ( +5 / -6 )

thats power harassment. Rape is rape.

Both can be combined : W rapes you and you shut it up otherwise your career is destroyed. So far over a dozen of such cases. Plus all the others, not all rapes but all some kind of abuse. Besides, there are some women that were obviously willing to use the casting couch, but that's out of topic because they don't complain (like his future ex-wife Georgina, she only sues to divorce and get her money before the perp is ruined by his lawyers). Not matter how you put it : Weinstein did rape. Saying "he did not rape all women he met in his life" brings nothing.

laws against that type of sexual harassment are relatively recent

Laws against harassment, threats, reputation damage, etc... are not recent. I don't say for all other dudes in the me-too. Weinstein was like a mafia don. Victims could sue him, even win some damage. And some did. But as Rose McGowan they still lost. He was still untouched (paying a few millions was nada for him). And there was a revenge by an invisible hand. It is due to his huge power of threat, to the fact that he was feared and obeyed by the whole industry.

I don't see a criminal conviction as there is no evidence besides "he said, she said." 

Already more evidence that for Larry Nassar. He's done.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Coskuri:

I believe Larry nassar actually recorded his abuse for his own gratification (which would be used later to prove his guilt). Most countries cannot convict on witness testimony alone. There must be physical proof.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Clamenza, why do you seem to hate women so much? Anytime any female dares to disagree with your line of thinking they’re femnazis and everything that is wrong with the world. Why is the idea of women being safe and having equality seem to scare and disgust you?

Soneine said this takes away from “real” take victims. Funny, I don’t know a single rape victims suggesting these women shut up and state they weren’t raped. Know why? Because they’re empathetic to the situations these women have been through. Very few women are not siding with the victims here. The same can’t be said for men. To those calling out the other male posters here for their comments, thank you.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

Anyone calling "forced" the threat to end not yet existing filming career from ONE SINGLE PERSON, is bathing in a massive load of self-produced nonsense.

Poor girls are now great actresses who had to suffer in past, meaning VICTIMS. How well it must sit with hypocritical lot, defending victims who traded dignity for fame...

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Though I guess most of you can’t because you’ve never had someone larger and more powerful threaten your career if you didn’t do as you were told.

@tmarie, apologies for the rambling reply

I think most men are no different from most women in succumbing to threats to do as we are told. The difference is the consequences. For men, it may just mean fawning respect for a boss whom they despise. For women, it may mean much more. But the sad truth is that many will just go along with it, men and women alike.

For me, Weinstein is a despicable person, but no more so than the only person I've been aware of in my working career who put sexual pressure on other employees. The difference is perhaps in the numbers who went along with it. In Weinstein's case, it seems like a lot. In the case I referred to, it was zero (unconfirmed), and the person was soon fired. But it does raise the question, to me at least, of whether Hollywood hopefuls are more vulnerable than most.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Most countries cannot convict on witness testimony alone. 

Californian courts can. Of course, that depends. One woman accusing her ex for a rape without nobody else noticed would have problems convincing. 100 women accusing a business relation... Don't worry, there are enough documents. Ronan Farrow had a solid file before publishing the story (he had to). Then former employees of the Weinsteins have given more informations, archives about the previous cases, etc, to boot him out of his company.

a massive load of self-produced nonsense.

That's what your post is, Daniel.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Daniel, you have no idea if someone said no and now no longer works as an actress. You have no idea if this man ruined careers of women you’ve never heard of. What we do know is that he DID limit the careers of women who said no or fought back. There is evidence of that. Men have come forwarded and supported actresses in stating they were not to hire women who said no/fought back. They were labeled “difficult” by Weinstein. We know there is a 100 or so who have come forward. We don’t know how many haven’t and you can be sure that there are many who have not said a thing. Why? Well perhaps they don’t want to be labeled as prostitues - as the victims are being called on this thread.

Albaleo, oh indeed men are indeed victims of harassment and assault at work. Sorry if you took my comment to imply otherwise. However, the number that would be sexual assaulted/raped would be low in comparison to women. And mostly likely, the person causing the pain would be male, though not always.

I don’t think Hollywood is any more vulnerable than any other line of work. The difference is that these women now feel empowered to speak out. We know that maids get raped and assaulted - we learned that years ago. What they don’t have is power to rise up and speak out about it like Hollywood. Look at Japan. Look at the daily harassment Japanese females deal with. That’s what we see. There’s a lot more going on there than people would like to admit to. I personally know numerous successful Japanese females profs who’ve been assaulted by male coworkers and reminded that if they speak out, it’s their word against theirs and the men have power. Hollywood is no different except they have the power of the media. Now. They didn’t before which is why they all said silent before. This is just the beginning. I hope.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

I can see those who are still actresses and who said "yes" apparently. Keep defending this kind of attitude, creating more victims for the better humankind, this will not be tolerated in a civilized world.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Duress, extortion, retaliation and abuse of power, is.

All of which he is guilty of.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

And of what , may I ask, the girls that got duressed, extorted, re...retaliated and abused by power, guilty then?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Personally speaking. I would only have sex with the person I am involved with. No amount of money or position would change my mind on that issue.

The door is that way. Either walk through it and do what you need to do. Or walk away and find another door that will appreciate your talents and not your body.

People who have sex to advance their position are no better than those who demand sex for advancement.

We all have a choice. Rape victims don't. I think many on here don't realise that.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

That’s a fair enough stance. But it’s also good to recognize that when faced with sleeping with someone or losing out on your career, an issue many of the women Weinstein ‘dealt’ with, doing the literal dirty may seem like the only option.

Women need protection from this type of situation. Having to have sex with a gross disgusting fat slob as a requirement for continuing in your chosen profession is unacceptable.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@tmarie

I love women. The issue here is Weinstein and what constitutes rape, not your idea of equality which is another subject altogether.

And since when do you get to speak on behalf of all rape victims? Why is it you suggest you speak for all women?

You don’t. You have your opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Strangerland:

He certainly isn't my type, but I'm sure he is somebody's. In either case, we should focus on his actions not his looks. Lets not demean other full-bodied, dishevelled, messy-proned people (or in mean terms: fat, disgusting, slob).

1 ( +2 / -1 )

He is right.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

That’s a fair enough stance. But it’s also good to recognize that when faced with sleeping with someone or losing out on your career, an issue many of the women Weinstein ‘dealt’ with, doing the literal dirty may seem like the only option.

Granted he was powerful. But he isn't the only producer in Hollywood is he?

As for the losing out on a career??

C'mon...Choose another "career" that won't involve doing the literal dirty!!

Or if you really want that career and need to work with a beast like ol' Harv then...as Austin Malone puts it his song Dirty work...

"It's the Dirty work, somebody's gotta do it!"

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Granted he was powerful. But he isn't the only producer in Hollywood is he?

Doesn't matter if he's the only one or not if he can get you blacklisted: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/dec/15/peter-jackson-harvey-weinstein-ashley-judd-mira-sorvino

As for the losing out on a career??

Mira Sorvino was an up and coming actress. 'Was'.

If she was blacklisted with the level of notoriety that her name had, imagine how much scarier it would be for an actress without that level of notoriety.

C'mon...Choose another "career" that won't involve doing the literal dirty!!

So sexual harassment is ok, and women don't need protection, because if they don't like it, they can just choose another career. Got it.

Or if you really want that career and need to work with a beast like ol' Harv then...as Austin Malone puts it his song Dirty work...

"It's the Dirty work, somebody's gotta do it!"

Oh, or they can sleep with the person harassing them if they want to stick with their career. Got it.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

FBI definition of rape.

penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.

Ok... So we need to define consent.

https://www.rainn.org/articles/legal-role-consent

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/victims-victimes/def.html

Consent can actually be ruled not valid in instances where there is a threat of financial harm or where the accused is in a position of power... For example... an employer. When consent is ruled invalid... gotta go back to the FBI definition. It would then be rape.

Look... I agree... Somebody knowingly and willingly using sex to further their career is not being raped. Somebody agreeing to something willingly and then regretting it afterwards... They don't have much right to accuse anyone of wrongdoing. But those people who have been threatened in any way whatsoever by somebody in a position of power have to speak out.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

Look... I agree... Somebody knowingly and willingly using sex to further their career is not being raped. Somebody agreeing to something willingly and then regretting it afterwards... They don't have much right to accuse anyone of wrongdoing. But those people who have been threatened in any way whatsoever by somebody in a position of power have to speak out.

Absolutely. I don’t remember anyone saying different. And they have spoken out

Whats your point?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

My point is the position I take on what is classed as rape is valid even going by many legal definitions. Somebody asked, I clarified with links... although there are many more I know...

What's yours?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Sex to advance your career is prostitution.

No. Sex to advance your career is ambition. Prostitution is honest business.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I’m no fan of the Hollywood cesspool, and what the lawyer said is sleazy, but whether the victim be man or woman, is it any sleazier than the transaction that takes place between a John and a prostitute? The whole business is based on looks and sex is a commodity.

The John is the producer withholding payment in the form of a job unless the prostitute - a good-looking actor or actress- offers up their body for sex. It’s no secret that looks are what get you the job, and even the greater public buys into this line of thinking.

How many movie fans fantasize about sex with their favorite leading actor or leading actress, or at least getting a glimpse of them naked? How many aspiring actors and actresses have dreamed of becoming the person whom everyone else admires? This is the lure of fame. This is what Hollywood sells. This is La-la-land. It’s no secret and to deny this is disingenuous. You’re fooling yourself if you claim to think any differently.

Of course, it is very different situation for an office job where you’re being hired for you brains and abilities, which is why it’s much easier to call out power harassment in such a situation.

I don’t like it, and it’s one of the reasons I have refused to let my kids become models or talents in Japan. We all know what goes on.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

The slime ball could have raped someone with his sexual harassment behavior but the victim didn't report him?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

My point is the position I take on what is classed as rape is valid even going by many legal definitions. Somebody asked, I clarified with links... although there are many more I know...

What's yours?

My point is you just repeated what you claim to be against

Look... I agree... Somebody knowingly and willingly using sex to further their career is not being raped.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

No. That is not what I have been saying. You should follow more closely.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

@strangerland

We are keeping this focused on Hollywood right?

Good.

Now let's get one thing clear! I ain't defending any of the actions below OK?

here goes...

The casting couch is nothing new. It's been there since the movie business began.

Everybody knew what goes on. certainly more so if you are in the business.

If you choose to enter that business there are 2 ways to get on in it.

Your talent will shine through and you will get a lucky break from a well meaning producer.

I'm sure many got that break.

No luck with the above and you still want the break? Many took the seedier route.

(Watch "To die for" Great movie BTW)

There ain't no rape here guys! What a shocking thing to say. A real rape victim will have very real physical and psychological damage and most certainly couldn't walk away from the attack.

And don't give me this coercion argument either!! That is pure nonsense. If I were a woman and someone demanded sex with me to get the part? I'd make a scene in the office....I'd report him to the police and all his friends.

Be damned with the "CAREER"!!

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If I were a woman and someone demanded sex with me to get the part? I'd make a scene in the office....I'd report him to the police and all his friends.

Be damned with the "CAREER"!!

And this works because we now have some brave women who spoke up about OL Harv and his beastly tactics.

Good for them!

But shame on those who got rich and famous and said nothing until they were asked the question.

Shame on them!

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As for all of you going on about going to the police, do have it you have firsthand experience of reporting anything to the cops? (More so in japan?!) Anyone of you know stats of retaliation if a woman reports? Why not do a google search because I can tell you the retaliation rates/being “punished” for coming forward is not pretty. In a perfect world woman (and men) could reports incidents of rape, harassment... without fear. But we don’t live in a perfect world and claiming “they could’ve just gone to the police” is a very naive (and power based) comment to make.

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But we don’t live in a perfect world and claiming “they could’ve just gone to the police” is a very naive (and power based) comment to make.

This is true and just look at the abuse that's meted out to women who overcome the trauma (that's held them back from doing so) and admit what happened to them.

They're damned if they keep silent and they're damned if they speak up.

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Well so instead of taking it up how it is supposed to be, they kept silent for several decades allowing him to corrupt more females. All because "world is imperfect, police sucks, green is not grass", really? This kindegarden philosophy is your way of protecting the society and especially females? Get real, they did mistakes, now they suffer for them just as Wittgenstein is, and I hope they will be an example for anyone else not to follow in the future.

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@tmarie

ex police myself and I can tell you that in the UK the police take any sexual assault very seriously.

So I am not being naive when I suggest it.

Japan however... you may be right.

I don’t know.

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Mira Sorvino and Ashley Judd claim that Weinstein had them blacklisted for refusing to have sex with him, and there is plenty of corroborating evidence. That is far, far different from what the lawyer is claiming. He makes it sound as if Weinstein was the victim in this big mess, and there are dozens of women who claim otherwise.

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I have come across Women who have slept their way up the hierarchy within Companies, (and most others within those companies knews that), eventually those Women move onto another Company at a similar position/level that they had in the previous. So what do you call that type of Woman ? Ambitious ? A Slut ? Manipulative ?

It's not just Hollywood.... but a global thing. Hollywood is just more open about it.

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Haaa NemuiMar. 5 11:57 am JSTFBI definition of rape.

penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.

The human rights treaties and US military justice code both define rape as 'any penetration however slight, is enough to complete the offense. With that, some cretin in the state of Ohio got a life sentence for raping a child in the eye. Rape can also be in the nose or ears. Yeah, some people actually do sex like that, but if there's no consent and you do it anyway then it's RAPE.

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And since when do you get to speak on behalf of all rape victims? 

She has to bring a rape kit to prove and be allowed to speak ? Like Daniel that says that if you have no grave to show you never were a victim of anything. You know what, grandpas ? That's not your business whether a commentator faced a rapist or not, recovered from abuse or not. But, yes she, I, we, women can speak. Because guys like Weinstein are here and there, so far escaping justice and doing it as long a viagra allows them. And it is something that nearly every woman fears or has feared, being raped... while few men fear it (and really rarely from women predators).

 come across Women who have slept their way up the hierarchy within Companies

You mean Sheryl Sandberg, Oprah or Hillary Clinton ? I guess you have come across many more Men who have slept their way.... as the huge majority of those up there are not women except in a few Scandinavian countries. Just following your logic to see where you are going. Nowhere, isn't it ?

So what do you call that type of Woman ? 

Your fantasy. Gold diggers do exist. But what they do is catching a casino or pachinko owner.

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Pretty obvious that the problem here is people using one word to describe a wide range of sexual offenses. An unfortunate recent trend, that. All politicians I dislike are "facist" or "Hitler." All unwanted sexual advances are "rape." This is done as a form of emphasis, but the long run effect is simply that it dilutes the meanings of important words and confuses people.

To compare a women who felt she had to consent to sex to further her career with a woman who is violently attacked in a park by strangers is a complete insult to the second victim. To deny any distinction between the two, one has to be either dishonest or hopelessly confused.

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To compare a women who felt she had to consent to sex to further her career with a woman who is violently attacked in a park by strangers is a complete insult to the second victim. To deny any distinction between the two, one has to be either dishonest or hopelessly confused.

Here's some information. Maybe you can read sometime and learn something.

In the majority of the rapes and sexual assaults reported to the NCVS, the victim knew their attacker. Last year, in 39 percent of reported attacks, the victims said the offender was a well-known or casual acquaintance, and in another 33 percent of attacks, the victim said the offender was someone they had an intimate relationship with, including a current or former spouse, girlfriend or boyfriend. Only 19 percent of incidents involved victims who said the person who assaulted them was a stranger.Advocates have been working for years to dispel the myth that sexual assault is predominantly carried out by strangers, and research has confirmed that most victims of such crimes know their attackers. Similarly, it’s a myth that sexual violence typically involves a weapon; in fact, only 11 percent of the cases of rape and sexual assault reported in the NCVS involved a weapon.

Here's the full page -

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/sexual-assault-victims/

You can distinguish between somebody who uses sex to work their way up the ladder and somebody who is violently attacked by strangers in a park... but to suggest that there is nothing in between and that everything is so black and white is completely dishonest and insulting to ALL of the victims.

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You can distinguish between somebody who uses sex to work their way up the ladder and somebody who is violently attacked by strangers in a park... but to suggest that there is nothing in between and that everything is so black and white

I agree, which is why the insistence on using one black and white word (rape) to describe everything is wrong - because it suggests there is nothing between the 2 extremes.

I am not sure why you posted that reference, as it doesn't really address what I said. Thank you for suggesting I read sometime, though. Very kind of you to help people who aren't as brilliantly clever as you.

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My apologies. I mistook your statement about strangers in a park to mean that's what you thought rape was, hence my reference to show that less than 20% are committed by strangers. The fact is there are so many crimes that fall under the category of rape whether people want to believe it or not. This lawyer is deliberately trying to muddy the waters to throw people off and gain support. It's despicable.

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I agree, which is why the insistence on using one black and white word (rape) to describe everything is wrong - because it suggests there is nothing between the 2 extremes.

They aren’t opposite extremes though. Someone violently attacked in a park and raped is rape. Someone voluntarily using sex to climb the ladder is consensual sex and not rape.

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Women can be manipulative too... just as men. And with all this hype now-a-days, more so.

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Women can be manipulative too... just as men. And with all this hype now-a-days, more so.

How many women rape, assault and co-erce men, out of curiosity?

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"If a woman decides that she needs to have sex with a Hollywood producer to advance her career and actually does it and finds the whole thing offensive, that's not rape," he told The Times.

Technically correct, but nevertheless disingenuous.

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Mira Sorvino and Ashley Judd claim that Weinstein had them blacklisted for refusing to have sex with him, and there is plenty of corroborating evidence. That is far, far different from what the lawyer is claiming. He makes it sound as if Weinstein was the victim in this big mess, and there are dozens of women who claim otherwise.

What happened to Mira Sorvino is a very sad and tragic thing. The woman is tainted goods, no one will touch her with a 10 foot pole, Weinstein saw to that. Her father Paul said to a reporter once, he hopes he never sees Weinstein alone, he’s beyond angry knowing what this man did to his daughter, I mean, who could blame him? Weinstein is the worst piece of garbage out there.

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What happened to Mira Sorvino is a very sad and tragic thing. The woman is tainted goods,

wow! I find that a very offensive comment not only against Mira Sorvino but against all women and especially those hurt by a man in whatever way. Sounds like something that might have been said back 1918 but just not in 2018.

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Women can be manipulative too... just as men. And with all this hype now-a-days, more so.

How many women rape, assault and co-erce men, out of curiosity?

Actually it can and does happen. A recent movie, 'Bad Boss' maybe (?) starred Jennifer Aniston as a sexual predator dentist. She sedated a patient in a chair and had sex with him while he was drugged, incapacitated and unwilling. That is RAPE because he didn't consent.  

In another scenario, if a woman holds a gun to a man and forces him to put his 'thingy' into her (he's not consenting) then it's a case of the woman raping the man because he's being forced to do what he doesn't want to do. Rape is about forced and unconsented sex acts. It's a crime of violence, not passion. If the sex isn't between consenting **adults then it is RAPE**.

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