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Understanding that chronic back pain originates from within brain could lead to quicker recovery: new study

37 Comments
By Yoni Ashar

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37 Comments

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JT congrats on a very interesting and useful article!

I really like these health articles that we see here from time to time.

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Well, I have a fused vertebrae from cracking it. It is now fused to the vertebrae below it. That's not in the brain, I'd guess. Maybe I'm missing something, but when it hurts it if often almost unbearable. Pain pills is all I've got to reduce the pain.

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I have had lower back pain for 40 years but I have it under control. I have an extra vertebra in the lower lumber. I rarely use painkillers only when very bad.

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so instead of addressing the root cause of chronic pain they intervene with the brain processes? Can't approve. whether the pain is the cause of internal desease or due to psychological matters (which are often narcissistic and other kind of abuse) they should be addressed rather than supressed because the eruption will ahppen once again but only harder with more dire consequences.

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I have had lower back pain for 40 years but I have it under control.

Sounds out of control.

I have an extra vertebra in the lower lumber.

No you don't.

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No you don't.

How would you know? are you trying to say you have access to other people medical records? is this some kind of attempt to intimidate others by releasing personal information?

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A six vertebrae lower lumbar is uncommon, but far from extraordinary. Roughly 10% of adults have a congenital abnormality in their lower back. The sixth lumbar vertebra is one of the most frequent abnormalities.

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How about a chiropractor? Even have animal chiropractors on YouTube cracking pit bull spines and necks of horses.

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Chiropractors or in English osteopaths are both very good for helping with back pain.

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Chiropractors or in English osteopaths are both very good for helping with back pain

A qualified physical therapist can help in a much more evidence based approach, chiropractors unfortunately have the unnecessary baggage of the disproved subluxation theory in their practice that can hinder some forms of treatment. Not necessarily useless or dangerous but if you still want to se a chiropractor it is much better that at least is not a "Straight" one.

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We included 151 adults ages 21 to 70 years old with chronic back pain. We found that 66% of participants reported being pain-free or nearly pain-free after pain reprocessing therapy, compared with 20% of people who received a placebo.

Nah, there are so many medical conditions that would cause back pain.

A qualified physical therapist can help in a much more evidence based approach, chiropractors unfortunately have the unnecessary baggage of the disproved subluxation theory in their practice 

No, because chiropractor's focus is the spine whereas a physical therapist does not have the specific training a chiropractor does.

And there is no disproved subluxation theory. The theory is alive and well.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

There is a difference between chiropractors in the US and osteopaths in the UK.

"For chiropractors, the focus of their training is in spinal adjustments and joint manipulation (clicking). Whilst osteopaths also receive training in spinal adjustments and joint manipulation (similar to those taught to chiropractors) they also receive (more) training in other treatments such as soft tissue techniques."

https://www.spineplus.co.uk/24839-2/#:~:text=For%20chiropractors%20the%20focus%20of,such%20as%20soft%20tissue%20techniques.

"

"In most cases, chiropractors use adjustments, which focus on restoring the joint's functionality and position. It's usually a specific movement or motion that 'forces' the body back into place. Osteopaths may use adjustments if they feel it necessary, but they have a broader approach and treat larger areas of the body."

https://valehealthclinic.co.uk/chiropractor-or-osteopath-what-do-i-need/#:~:text=In%20most%20cases%2C%20chiropractors%20use,larger%20areas%20of%20the%20body.

When I was in the UK I used an osteopath and was effective when there was spine pain.

I also used acupuncture.

In Japan, I visit an osteopath/chiropractor (not sure which term they use,) who is also an acupuncturist.

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Nah, there are so many medical conditions that would cause back pain.

That do not contradict the text from the article that you are quoting. Having many causes in no way refute the findings of the study.

No, because chiropractor's focus is the spine whereas a physical therapist does not have the specific training a chiropractor does.

That is precisely why the word "can" is used in the text you quote, choosing a proper physical therapist (that can deal with back pain problems) is a perfectly valid option, and precisely because it lacks an specific training that has been demonstrated as not scientific is why it is better.

I also used acupuncture.

Which together with other pseudoscientific practices like homeopathy works only because of the placebo effect, it can be effective but only as much as the patient believes it will be effective, which is why is so popular for symptoms like pain.

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And there is no disproved subluxation theory. The theory is alive and well.

Yes, it has been disproved and it is considered pseudoscience.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertebral_subluxation

Mainstream medicine and some mixer chiropractors consider these ideas to be pseudoscientific and dispute these claims, as there is no scientific evidence for the existence of chiropractic subluxations or proof they or their treatment have any effects on health.

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I also used acupuncture.

Which together with other pseudoscientific practices like homeopathy works only because of the placebo effect, it can be effective but only as much as the patient believes it will be effective, which is why is so popular for symptoms like pain.

That statement is not true from my personal experience. What would the placebo be in acupuncture? You don't take anything.

When in extreme pain, acupuncture was able to relieve the pain. Having back pain was very real. It has helped my pain for over 40 years.

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I also use Electrotherapy and have a unit at home. It is very effective.

https://www.sepainandspinecare.com/electrotherapy-and-pain-management-everything-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=For%20electric%20stimulation%2C%20an%20electrical,pain%20in%20that%20particular%20area.

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I try to keep the use of painkillers to a minimum or last resort.

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That statement is not true from my personal experience. What would the placebo be in acupuncture? You don't take anything.

Placebo is the effect completely dependent on the mind of the patient that appears when he receives what he considers to be an effective treatment, even when there is no actual effect. You take the acupuncture and you believe it to be effective, so your mind makes it so. Patients that receive the same procedure (including the full interrogation, talk, manipulations, etc.) but with needles put in random points not supposedly related to the health problem get the same benefits.

Having back pain was very real

That a symptom is on your mind do not contradicts it being very real, it just makes it much more easily dealt with placebos, but only as long as you believe it is effective.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

virusrex

What I have posted actually worked and not because I wanted it to work. I didn't actually think acupuncture would work but it did.

On one occasion the pain was intense I could not get out of bed. The acupuncturist came to my home and the pain stopped allowing me to get out of bed the next day and take a flight to the US.

Chiropractors, osteopaths, acupuncture, and electrotherapy have all helped with my pain.

My experiences have been very real for more than 40 years.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

Top 5 Differences between an Osteopath and Chiropractor

https://www.surreyphysio.co.uk/top-5/top-5-differences-between-an-osteopath-and-chiropractor/

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What I have posted actually worked and not because I wanted it to work. 

For that claim you would need evidence, without it you can only say you believe it worked not because you wanted it to work. It has already been demonstrated that the expertise of the acupuncturist or the place the needles are put have no effect on the efficacy of the treatment, that fulfills the requirements to consider it working completely by placebo effect.

The placebo effect is as real as pain is, and it can have deep, profound effects, if that is the only thing you care about then it is fine, but claiming treatment of subluxation or acupuncture have objective effects that can be demonstrated not to depend on the patients beliefs then you need to prove that with actual evidence. A patient receiving relief after a placebo treatment is precisely why it can be called placebo. The benefit can be real, the supposed principles of why the treatment works are not.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

My body and I have been together for more than 70 years. We have been through many ups and downs physically and medically. Some serious and some less serious. More recently cancer. I am an expert on my body and I know what works for me, especially during moments of intense pain.

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I  don't need to post any evidence. I have posted my personal experience of back pain and what worked for me.

Again, you would only need to post evidence to make the claim the treatments are objectively effective and not placebos, your personal experience is completely inside what placebos do.

I am not an experiment. You seem to be speaking from a third person rather than personal experience.

That would be irrelevant, you don't need to be an experiment for objective knowledge to apply the same as to anybody else.

I am not going to waste my time on some useless debate with you.

Which is perfectly fine but requires no clarification, people do that all the time just by not replying to other people and there is no problem with that.

What do you do in moments of extreme pain?

A large variety of things that are effective, for good or for bad I have no faith on placebo so it has no effect on me, a massage, rest or physical training under direction of a therapist can bring the benefit.

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What do you do in moments of extreme pain?

A large variety of things that are effective, for good or for bad I have no faith on placebo so it has no effect on me, a massage, rest or physical training under direction of a therapist can bring the benefit.

I am talking about intense pain when you can't even move. Can't sleep or find a place of comfort.

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I am talking about intense pain when you can't even move. Can't sleep or find a place of comfort.

Yes I know.

You understand there are people that say many other things even more obviously based on the placebo effect find relief from incapacitating pain, right? as you say pain that do not let you sleep or find a place of confort. From Reiki to remote prayer (by hired services!) people that have very real pain and suffering also find very real benefits and that can still be completely attributed to placebo effect.

Maybe the problem is that you think placebo can only mean mild relief or small effects, but people have delivered babies painlessly by it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I have had intense pain. I sat in a cold place reading for my Masters degree. Next morning I felt like I'd been hit by a truck. Could barely get out of bed never mind walk up the station stairs. Lasted about 4 weeks. Unforgettable.

What do you do in moments of extreme pain?

I soldiered on. Told a few people; wife, boss at work people who might care. Prayed a bit. It went away slowly.

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An important point with pain is to avoid addiction to strong painkillers.

Medical drugs only work about 60% of the time.

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Have you tried meditation for pain relief?

Medical drugs only work about 60% of the time.

The pills I take work fine all the time.

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An important point with pain is to avoid addiction to strong painkillers.

Medical drugs only work about 60% of the time.

The world's medical systems had a very good (but tragic) lesson with the debacle that the US experienced because of the over reliance on analgesic drugs. This article is part of the many attempts done by medical professionals to put their two cents into helping the population deal with pain in a different way (here by pain reprocessing therapy).

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More than 20 million Americans are addicted to extreme painkillers. I understand, that when there is extreme pain you will take almost anything for it to stop.

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Never had any problems with me back, bleeding lucky eh, lol

My chum has had serious lower back problems for years and nothing seems to help him despite many different treatments.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I understand, that when there is extreme pain you will take almost anything for it to stop.

That's a bit drastic. For me, the extreme pain I have suffered, on reflection maybe three times back and 3 times 四十肩, I took painkillers as the doctor prescribed which worked but they ran out.

I knew my limits and did not feel the urge to "take almost anything". That seems a bit trashy. I am sure I never will be like that as I know my limits.

I think I have a strong threshold for pain. My dentist thinks so anyway There are certain personalities that are prone to addiction, and others that aren't. I suspect that I am not prone.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Meditation, mindfulness, and breath control can all help with pain.

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Is this good or NG?

https://youtube.com/shorts/FRCUwB5odcM?si=6SN7HcfV-pFXhgZO

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I can only bend my back for less than one minute then my brain tells me it hurts.

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This is not a medical approach. Where a patient is relieved of pain, it is not their belief, it is their stating a medical fact.

No that is not a "medical fact" at all, feeling relief can be real, but saying that this is independent from placebo effect would require evidence. Without that evidence the most likely explanation for relief done by something that have not shown to be superior to placebo is still a placebo effect.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

During my recent illness and persistent cough, the local pharmacist gave me an OTC drug which was supposed to suppress the part of my brain that made me cough. Quite expensive, ¥2,500. It didn't work.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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