health

What is the BA.5 variant and why does it seem to be reinfecting so many people with COVID?

41 Comments
By Jennifer Rigby and Julie Steenhuysen

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© Thomson Reuters 2022.

©2022 GPlusMedia Inc.

41 Comments

Comments have been disabled You can no longer respond to this thread.

"evading the immune protection afforded either by vaccination (or prior infection)" Could it be that the jabs actually enable the infections, as they clearly do not provide adequate protection of typical vaccines? We'll (possibly) learn the truth in a decade or more.

-8 ( +12 / -20 )

 in countries including South Africa, where it was first found, as well as the United Kingdom, parts of Europe, and Australia.

BA.5 is certainly spreading fastest in highly vaccinated countries.

The reason needs to be investigated, without extremely wealthy "stakeholders" interfering with the investigation.

-3 ( +12 / -15 )

 Could it be that the jabs actually enable the infections, as they clearly do not provide adequate protection of typical vaccines?

Easly demonstrated as false because there is no evidence of an increase of susceptibility from vaccinated people but the opposite, even if the protection against infection is not complete vaccinated people are still less infected than those that have not been vaccinated.

No need to wait a decade with the data that is already available.

BA.5 is certainly spreading fastest in highly vaccinated countries.

Ecological fallacy, "countries" are not vaccinated but people, and since spreading is not faster but slower between vaccinated people compared with naive people it is easy to understand vaccines are not promoting infection but the opposite.

You are confusing between countries that have other factors that promote spreading making an extra effort to control the public health problems with measures that include vaccination.

The reason needs to be investigated

For the experts the epidemiology is well understood from a long time ago, misrepresenting the situation to pretend vaccines are doing something that they are not.

8 ( +16 / -8 )

@virusrex: don't worry, all logically thinking people understand this already.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

Don't know what kind of conspiracy you think is going on. Very paranoid.

last i heard Russia was saying the virus was made in a US lab

4 ( +7 / -3 )

vaccinated people are still less infected than those that have not been vaccinated.

Any proof for that?

The infection numbers increasing like hell all over the world.

In Japan there is a vaccination rate over 80%.

Do you think that only the left 20% unvaccinated are infected?

Everyone I know, who is or was infected AND got sick was three times or even 4 times vaccinated.

The unvaccinated people I know, never showed any symptoms.

Probably they were even never infected.

A few days ago, the german Health minister said a clever thing:

"We should stop the people to force into more and more boosters. The world needs a vaccine that prevents the infection, because the current one is not doing that properly!

And the world needs finally a medicine to treat Covid."

Basically I am not a big fan of that guy, but in this case he is really true.

-11 ( +5 / -16 )

Additional the german health minister said,

Aktuell seien aber keine gefährlichen Mutationen in Sicht. Der Omikron-Subtyp BA.5 sei keine besonders gefährliche Variante.

There are no dangerous mutation in sight.

The Omicron Subtype BA.5 is not a dangerous variante.

And he said:

Einen an Omikron angepassten Impfstoff erwartet Lauterbach frühestens für September.

Wir haben da jetzt Daten von Moderna gesehen, die vielversprechend sind,

Lauterbach expected a special Omicron vaccine will by earliest september.

We saw Data from Moderna which are promising. (looks good).

My question:

If "The Omicron Subtype BA.5 is not a dangerous variante", then why all the Hype and fearmongering BS from the media and some trolls?

-12 ( +5 / -17 )

@Monty: Of course a vaccine that prevents infection is needed. Who will argue otherwise? The question is, how to do it (safely)??? I'm sure there are loads of people working on it. I'll boost away til it comes.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

Also BA.2.75 is now of concern.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Any proof for that?

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2206576

 In addition, as compared with the median neutralizing antibody titer against the BA.1 subvariant, the median titer was lower by a factor of 2.2 against the BA.2.12.1 subvariant and by a factor of 3.3 against the BA.4 or BA.5 subvariant.

This means that neutralizing antibodies produced thanks to vaccination are still present and active against BA.4 and BA.5 even if at lower levels, this obviously means a third of the protection, not zero and much less a negative value. Antibody levels are a well characterized surrogate of protection both from vaccines and from previous infection.

Do you think that only the left 20% unvaccinated are infected?

Do you think only people that are not wearing seat belts are dying in traffic accidents?

It is the same mistake, to think that if something is not 100% effective then it means it is 0% effective.

As long as the vaccine can demonstrate any degree of protection it still means it is an advantage.

The second mistake is to think a personal recollection of the situation of a few dozens people, without controlling for any variables nor documenting very necessary details somehow can disprove the data from

Probably they were even never infected.

Which has absolutely no importance because they are still at a higher risk of complications and death than if they were vaccinated.

A few days ago, the german Health minister said a clever thing:

And the world needs a vaccine that will prevent the next pandemic as well, that does absolutely nothing to make it closer to be real. It may not be realistically possible to make sterilizing vaccines, most of the vaccines for other diseases are not effective at preventing infection, but the same as the ones for covid they are much better at preventing the most dangerous complications of the disease.

There are no dangerous mutation in sight.

The Omicron Subtype BA.5 is not a dangerous variante.

That of course is not taking into account the possibility that increased transmission could originate more variants, that possibility is reduced by vaccinating people because it gives the immune system a head start so even if infected the virus has less time to mutate and adapt thanks to the neutralization.

If "The Omicron Subtype BA.5 is not a dangerous variante", then why all the Hype and fearmongering BS from the media and some trolls?

That would be because of your personal bias, that perfectly valid, objective information that actually disperse fears (for example by writing how this variant do not appear to have higher pathogenicity like in this article) still is qualified as "fearmongering" by you. People want to know, be informed and take proper precautions, you on the other hand want to read whatever confirms your pre-existing ideas, anything that you don't like is automatically clasiffied as hype and fearmongering, which is obviously not valid.

12 ( +16 / -4 )

Of course a vaccine that prevents infection is needed. Who will argue otherwise?

I 100% agree with you.

So why continue to push the people into a vaccine that is currently available, which clearly shows now, by skyrocket increasing of cases all over the world, that it is zero help and do nothing to prevent the spread, the infections or even to end this pandemic?

Even some experts are recognizing that now.

And like this Lauterbach said:

There are no dangerous mutation in sight.

The Omicron Subtype BA.5 is not a dangerous variante.

So there is no need to push the people nonstop in the current vaccine.

After a real vaccine, which prevents the infection, is developed, then it can be started again to recommend to take that new vaccine, because a vaccine, which really prevents the infection and prevents getting sick, can end this pandemic.

-12 ( +4 / -16 )

So why continue to push the people into a vaccine that is currently available, which clearly shows now, by skyrocket increasing of cases all over the world, that it is zero help and do nothing to prevent the spread, the infections or even to end this pandemic?

You keep repeating this, even when it was easy to demonstrate it is mistaken with other examples where the advantage is obvious even with an increase of the number of deaths (because of other causes) like seat belts.

Once you accept your argument can be disproved, and you could not do anything about it, but still choose to repeat that argument that you accept is mistaken you are making clear you are not interested on what is correct.

So there is no need to push the people nonstop in the current vaccine.

All variants of SARS-CoV-2 are dangerous and a public health problem, BA.5 being not specially pathogenic compared with other variants is not the same as it being innocuous, that is not correct. As long as vaccines provide protection and decrease the risk from the infection then it is valid to recommend people to be vaccinated. With what do you propose replace the reduction of risk from the vaccine or the boosters? nothing?

After a real vaccine, which prevents the infection

Most vaccines are not capable of prevent infection, according to your mistaken idea no vaccine in the history of humanity is "real". This proves this is just your personal idea based on not correctly understanding what vaccines are supposed to do and instead making up an arbitrary standard that would disqualify all vaccines.

8 ( +15 / -7 )

As long as the vaccine can demonstrate any degree of protection it still means it is an advantage.

This means that neutralizing antibodies produced thanks to vaccination are still present and active against BA.4 and BA.5 even if at lower levels

That is exactly the point here...the vaccine doesn't demonstrate any degree of protection, or probably like your report said on a lower level.

But this lower level is currently proven as surprisingly unbelievable low by the reality, because the reality shows us now skyrocket increasing cases among the vaccinated people.

This Reality proves your data wrong, or at least proves that the low level is absolutely very very low. (Probably almost 0).

And your ignorance to the reality makes the situation more worse.

Because according to you, the vaccine is still the silver bullet.

And if people continue to believe that, they will take the vaccine (or even took it already) and are thinking, OK I have the silver bullet in me now, and so I can walk around freely, no ned to worry about getting infected, no need to worry about spreading....and so on...

But than, on the other hand, because of the misinformation they got from the "silver bullet stories", they are surprised that the cases are increasing skyrocket and they complain about that and give the blame to the unvaccinated people.

They do not understand, that they (the vaccinated) are also a high reason, if not even the highest reason for the increasing cases, because they completely ignore, that the reality shows now that almost all of the new cases are among the vaccinated people.

It is the fault of the people, who are spreading the wrong information, that the vaccine is the silver bullet, that the cases are increasing.

And because people do ignore the reality which can be clearly seen now, nothing will ever improve.

But basically that is no problem, because like Lauterbach said:

There are no dangerous mutation in sight.

The Omicron Subtype BA.5 is not a dangerous variante.

But like Taki said, that report is 1 month old, and he changed his mind later on, proves again that we should not listen so easy to the so called experts.

1 month ago, he said everything is easy, and people behave like everything is easy, and then one month later everything is complete opposite?

And... looking Nonstop at Data is complete nonsense, because data can be wrong...data can be manipulated... But the reality never.

And of course it counts, if a dozen of people I know who are vaccinated are getting infected and sick, because millions of other people in the world have for sure the same experience.

And I told here before that currently almost every week we have Covid cases in our company...and all of the cases are 3x vaccinated.

And that is the reality!

Or should I say, NO, that is not possible because the data from the scientific consens says different.

How in the world can somebody, even in countries with a very high vaccination rate, where the cases are increasing like hell, still saying, that this is not true because the data says different?

Even directly in front of his or her eyes this person can see that the reality shows a complete different picture than the data.

I can not understand this ignorance.

Me, as a 3x vaccinated person, who has to go currently almost weekly to a PCR test, because almost weekly people around me caught Covid, (even they are 3x vaccinated)..., even me... is not so stupid to ignore what happens right in front of my eyes.

But I mean, it is up to each single person, how he or she judges the skyrocket increasing cases, probably related to the variant BA5.

But for me it is clear, that the current vaccine is just a very small drop on the hot stone.

And this vaccine is implemented now over one year and there is still no end of the pandemic in sight.

If what Mr. Lauterbach said is correct, that Moderna is working on a vaccine who protects infection against Omicron, then we have a chance to go out of the pandemic.

But if I understand your comment correctly, you think that a vaccine who prevents infection is impossible.

According to that, I can not say if it is possible or not.

But according Mr. Lauterbach comment, he said the first looks at Moderna investigation and tests seems hopeful.

So let's wait and see, what the next months will bring.

-13 ( +3 / -16 )

BA.5 is certainly spreading fastest in highly vaccinated countries.

The reason needs to be investigated, without extremely wealthy "stakeholders" interfering with the investigation.

Yes, very true. Some of the possible reasons were recently presented by Dr. Robert Malone to the Texas Senate Committee on Health & Human Services:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6WzdJ3kpkY

He brought up many interesting points.

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

And one last point from me, before I go to work...

Mr. Lauterbach said first:

There are no dangerous mutation in sight.

The Omicron Subtype BA.5 is not a dangerous variante.

And then one month later, according to Taki, he said:

He then went on by saying, *"BA.5 is more infectious than BA.2 and BA.1, and naturally such variants are dangerous because they can still lead to triple-digit number of deaths every day *

How is that possible if the current vaccine works so well???

And why did he changed his mind?

Because he saw the reality!!!!

-9 ( +4 / -13 )

I keep reading in the news that these new variants are good at evading current vaccines.

Then why are they still looking at and not making targeted vaccines?

manufacturers and regulators are also looking at tweaked vaccines that directly target the newer Omicron variants.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

Then why are they still looking at and not making targeted vaccines?

Someone clearly doesn’t fact check themselves before posting…

8 ( +14 / -6 )

Raw Beer

You've been promoting this misinformation for months. I expect you'll trot out the rest of these guys soon enough.

Please forgive the cut and paste from a previous response.

Raw Beer Jan 30

Yes, and last week Sen. Ron Johnson had a long hearing with a bunch of these medical professionals. Very informative: https://rumble.com/vt62y6-covid-19-a-second-opinion.html

https://madison.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/fact-check-ron-johnsons-covid-19-a-second-opinion-panel/article_fce1e2cc-974d-5693-8e58-d90d7c967bac.html

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/06/28/politics/senator-ron-johnson-vaers-covid-deaths/index.html

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/01/05/fact-check-1-million-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-events-unverified/9103381002/

The principle 'world renowned doctors and medical experts'

Dr. Peter McCullough, a Dallas cardiologist who is largely discredited by the scientific community for his assertions that the COVID-19 vaccines are unsafe and that early treatment options have been suppressed. While McCullough said that doctors were probably afraid to show up to the event, one of Oklahoma's top infectious disease physicians, Dr. Anuj Malik, director of infection prevention and control at Ascension St. John, said that the doctors he spoke to were not afraid to attend. They were just not interested in sitting through what would be seen as a “politically-motivated, ideological speech by a modern-day quack.” 

Nor did they want to be part of an event that could lead to people not getting the vaccines and becoming ill and dying as a result, Malik said. "With all due respect, none of McCullough’s ideas have been supported by any randomized, double-blind, controlled clinical trials," he said.

An example of Dr Robert Malone's fine work-

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jun/16/youtube-videos/no-sign-covid-19-vaccines-spike-protein-toxic-or-c/

More on Malone

https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/jan/06/who-robert-malone-joe-rogans-guest-was-vaccine-sci/

Dr Pierre Kory

https://www.menshealth.com/health/a38281370/pierre-kory-ivermectin-catches-covid/

Dr Ryan Cole

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/04/scicheck-idaho-doctor-makes-baseless-claims-about-safety-of-covid-19-vaccines/

A real trustworthy chap Ron Johnson...

https://www.vox.com/2020/12/16/22178737/ron-johnson-election-irregularities-hearing-chris-krebs-gary-peters-trump

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/2021/02/15/ron-johnson-questions-whether-armed-insurrection-occurred-capitol/6753376002/

8 ( +12 / -4 )

That is exactly the point here...the vaccine doesn't demonstrate any degree of protection, or probably like your report said on a lower level.

The report clearly shows protection, you not being able to accept it is a completely different problem, it proves what you said is mistaken.

Because according to you, the vaccine is still the silver bullet.

This is again you making up things nobody said but you and then attributing it to other people, every time you do that I ask you to prove where exaclty that was being said, and every time you have to accept it never happened, just to once again repeat it in the next article. You are the one saying the vaccine was supposed to be a silver bullet, the experts clearly said it was a good weapon to lower the risk, but that variants could make all immunity less effective, which is what happened. You are discussing against what you yourself say, not the experts.

But like Taki said, that report is 1 month old, and he changed his mind later on, proves again that we should not listen so easy to the so called experts.

Because they have to be truthful with the situation according to the evidence? that would be the opposite, a reason to listen to them, at least for people that want to understand things as they are, not only to listen to what they like, which is the only reason you give to stop listening to them, they are saying things you don't want to accept.

And... looking Nonstop at Data is complete nonsense, because data can be wrong...data can be manipulated... But the reality never.

Data is simply much closer to be correct than your personal experience, do you know what is more likely to be nonsense or wrong? decisions made against the evidence.

How in the world can somebody, even in countries with a very high vaccination rate, where the cases are increasing like hell, still saying, that this is not true because the data says different?

Because there is well known reason for that, which are the variants. Once again you are proved mistaken with the example of the seat belts and the ever increasing number of traffic deaths, you keep trying very hard to ignore this example, because it clearly proves that something can be very useful at preventing deaths while other factors make them increase in spite of those effective measures.

He brought up many interesting points.

Robert Malone is not a good reference to give,

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2022/01/24/robert-malone-vaccine-misinformation-rogan-mandates/

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/08/robert-malone-vaccine-inventor-vaccine-skeptic/619734/

His declarations have been disproved repeatedly, and he tends to state things for which he has absolutely no evidence or even worse, with evidence that completely contradicts him. At this point he has no credibility left, which is why he communicates in youtube videos instead of scientific reports.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

funkymofo

Yeah, from the very start, all experts and doctors skeptical/critical of the pharma narrative have been attacked, and those attacks will be moved up in search results. So what?

Do you have anything more legit than cnn, usatoday, politifact, and menshealth?

Do you have a direct criticism of any specific point Malone made in front of the Texas Senate Committee?

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

His work is disproven. Deal with it.

8 ( +12 / -4 )

which is why he communicates in youtube videos instead of scientific reports.

What.

Malone gave a 1hr talk as expert witness in front of the Texas Senate Committee on Health & Human Services!

-11 ( +3 / -14 )

His work is disproven. Deal with it.

Some people are particularly low in intelligence when it comes to cognitive reflection, and are unable to change their opinions with new information. It's why they are prone to conspiracy theories.

They literally lack the intellectual capacity to "deal with it".

It's a real problem.

7 ( +14 / -7 )

"What people fundamentally don't understand is that when there is this high level of community transmission, this will mutate," Poland said. "Who knows what's going to come next. We are playing with fire."

Or, maybe people do fundamentally understand this.

Pretty rich statement from an agency that was telling the world masks were not necessary at the beginning of the pandemic. Thankfully, Japan, for example, knew better.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

Someone clearly doesn’t fact check themselves before posting…

Lol

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Yeah, from the very start, all experts and doctors skeptical/critical of the pharma narrative have been attacked, and those attacks will be moved up in search results. So what?

If people are found to be repeating falsehoods then they should be attacked, specially when they put in risk the lives and health of people. You have never defended the falsehoods the people being criticized repeated, your argument has always been that people should pay attention to those falsehoods.

Malone gave a 1hr talk as expert witness in front of the Texas Senate Committee on Health & Human Services!

And did he present data, explained his methods, discussed the evidence that contradicted him and successfully defended his conclusions against his peers?

No? well that is because that is not a scientific report, something that apparently is now above what he can do to actually support his beliefs, the problem is that using false information would disqualify him if he tried to use it as in his declarations, so he doesn't try to do it in the first place.

Pretty rich statement from an agency that was telling the world masks were not necessary at the beginning of the pandemic. Thankfully, Japan, for example, knew better.

You mean the CDC? because that is an agency saying exactly this.

As you usually try to ignore Scientific and medical institutions, and specially global authorities like the WHO require evidence to make recommendations. If the only evidence available at the beginning of the pandemic was that masks were useful when used for symptomatic patients in hospitals then that is what the recommendations are going to be, to prioritize the masks for the hospitals.

Pretending the WHO (and the CDC and every other scientific institution) had a time machine and would have known the future is not a rational argument, it is just an invalid excuse to misrepresent the situation.

5 ( +12 / -7 )

What else can we expect from a mere agency:

WHO stands by recommendation to not wear masks if you are not sick or not caring for someone who is sick

Source:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/30/world/coronavirus-who-masks-recommendation-trnd/index.html

You mean the CDC? because that is an agency saying exactly this. 

And your source is . . .none.

Speaking of the CDC this is what they said in 2003 (oh look, a source!):

CDC director Julie Gerberding, MD, says surgical masks are useful in filtering out relatively large particles of moist materials that you cough up or sneeze, 

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20030429/can-mask-protect-you-from-sars

Hmmm, masks work to prevent SARS, which is a coronavirus, maybe it would work to prevent Covid 19 . . . .Well, Japan knew that; and so did the world (another source!):

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/coronavirus-pandemic-japan-shows-masks-help-slow-spread-covid-19/

As you usually try to ignore Scientific and medical institutions, and specially global authorities like the WHO require evidence to make recommendations. If the only evidence available at the beginning of the pandemic was that masks were useful when used for symptomatic patients in hospitals then that is what the recommendations are going to be, to prioritize the masks for the hospitals.

How did I ignore a medical institution? I quoted the CDC. You don't read before you comment?

-10 ( +3 / -13 )

What else can we expect from a mere agency:

WHO stands by recommendation to not wear masks if you are not sick or not caring for someone who is sick

Again this is what the evidence available at the time indicated, you have provided exactly zero sources that contradict this recommendation available at the beginning of the pandemic, still zero.

And your source is . . .none.

Why do you ask for a source when you yourself provided it?

in this article

https://japantoday.com/category/national/relaxed-new-mask-usage-guidelines-barely-spread-among-japan-public

you brought this reference

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/31/coronavirus-masks-cdc/

Where it clearly says the CDC was just begin to change the recommendation but still called for masks to be prioritized for hospitals.

Why pretend to ignore something you used as a reference?

Hmmm, masks work to prevent SARS, which is a coronavirus, maybe it would work to prevent Covid 19 . . . .Well, Japan knew that; and so did the world (another source!):

Again, yes, for symptomatic patients in hospitals, so the recommendation for prioritizing scarce masks to this specific situation is still completely congruent with this information.

The evidence you have never brought is for data that shows masks as effective at preventing transmission from asymptomatic people on the street. You again failed to bring that reference even when explicitly called for it and just brought the same evidence that justified the recommendation made by the WHO and CDC.

How did I ignore a medical institution

As the quoted text clearly says what you try to ignore is that there is a requirement of scientific evidence before a scientific authority like the WHO can make a recommendation.

7 ( +12 / -5 )

As the quoted text clearly says what you try to ignore is that there is a requirement of scientific evidence before a scientific authority like the WHO can make a recommendation.

If the CDC, which is a scientific authority can make a recommendation to wear masks, certainly an agency like the WHO can; but they didn't.

Scientific evidence, which you ignore surprising since you are not a health professional, is from 2003. The WHO ignored it. As do you. Plain and simple, you are completely wrong. Everyone here sees that.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20030429/can-mask-protect-you-from-sars

-9 ( +3 / -12 )

If the CDC, which is a scientific authority can make a recommendation to wear masks, certainly an agency like the WHO can; but they didn't.

The CDC did not recommend asymptomatic people to wear masks on the street as you misrepresented.

They the same as the WHO and every other scientific institution recommended masks to be prioritized to hospitals where symptomatic patients were treated. All the different institutuions changed the recommendations after the new evidence began to appear and the benefit became apparent, which is the opposite of what you said happened.

Scientific evidence, which you ignore surprising since you are not a health professional, is from 2003.

again, the evidence is for mask used for patients it says it so literally,

That's the reason why we recommend that those masks be used for patients with SARS

Also, making baseless claims about other commenters to force moderators to delete your comment because it is against the rules of the site? Making imaginary claims about people you know nothing about is obviously not even an argument.

2 ( +11 / -9 )

Isn't there a danger in a leaky vaccine during a pandemic? Won't the virus mutate more quickly as it is able to spread from host to host? The current mRNA shots aren't meant to fight infection just kind of trick your immune system to thinking it can take on a very specific type of spike protein. I'll admit I'm no doctor but something seems very wrong about the current state of affairs. Couldn't the non sterilizing vaccine be promoting new variants and rapid mutation or are we not allowed to discuss that aspect? Immunity waning? Just boost!

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Isn't there a danger in a leaky vaccine during a pandemic? 

Not necessarily, as long as the vaccine represent an advantage it is still better than not vaccinating. The virus do NOT mutate more quickly because of the vaccines but instead it has less time to adapt to the immunity before it gets neutralized.

This is very easy to see by looking what populations originated delta or omicron. That is poorly immunized populations where the virus spread widely.

Sterilizing vaccines are a very rare exception, not the rule and the evidence until now clearly points out that variants come from not having any immunity, while even partially neutralizing immunity reduces the chances of this happening.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

Like I have said many time!! Its a virus you can't kill a virus you can CONTROL it but you can not get rid of it. If we could get rid of viruses we would have got rid of the common cold a long time ago and its still here. Don't expect Covid to go anywhere it is here to stay. We have to live with it until they can find away to control it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

UK govt figures show it is the "vaccinated" that are dropping dead rather than those that have chosen not to be jabbed:

image-56.png (639×516) (wp.com)

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Let me try that link again:

https://i0.wp.com/expose-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/image-56.png?resize=639%2C516&ssl=1

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

UK govt figures show it is the "vaccinated" that are dropping dead rather than those that have chosen not to be jabbed:

https://i0.wp.com/expose-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/image-56.png?resize=639%2C516&ssl=1

Because a random Wordpress site is credible, right?

I didn't even click on the link. If you are too lazy to find something credible, I'm too lazy to look at link to a page any hack could have created.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

StrangerlandToday  11:13 pm JST

UK govt figures show it is the "vaccinated" that are dropping dead rather than those that have chosen not to be jabbed:

https://i0.wp.com/expose-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/image-56.png?resize=639%2C516&ssl=1

Because a random Wordpress site is credible, right?

I didn't even click on the link. If you are too lazy to find something credible, I'm too lazy to look at link to a page any hack could have created.

Nice try, but fail. The page that Tony linked to is a summary from the UK's ONS, which you can find here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland

Just download the first spreadsheet and go to the tab for Table 1. It's right before your eyes. Othe rtables give age breakdown, etc. The main criticism I have of the ONS data is that it gives "Deaths involving COVID-19" but doesn't distinguish between deaths with or from COVID-19.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

One of those? Ah, you mean someone who understands there's a difference between with and from.

Yes, because smart people say that right? That's why the medical experts agree your differentiation matters, right?

/s

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Pray tell, why do think it's not important?

Why do I think a political attack by right-wing anti-vaxxers is not important in relevance to a health issue?

I mean, the premise of the question answers itself bruh.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

UK govt figures show it is the "vaccinated" that are dropping dead rather than those that have chosen not to be jabbed:

That is not what the data shows, a disproportionately higher number of unvaccinated people are the ones that die, when almost all of the population is vaccinated this means total numbers will be on the side of vaccinated for everything, but if unvaccinated die at a rate that is higher than expected for the small number they represent that still means they are at a higher risk than vaccinated.

But he's not bought and paid for, so he doesn't count.

But he has been proved wrong and repeating false information, that is why he doesn't count.

The main criticism I have of the ONS data is that it gives "Deaths involving COVID-19" but doesn't distinguish between deaths with or from COVID-19.

Since covid is a well described contributing factor that has no importance, if you do the same with malnutrition you would only find deaths with other main cause (like infection) that would not mean malnutrition is the original reason those other diseases happened.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites