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Forceful vaccine messages backfire with holdouts: How can it be done better?

29 Comments
By S Shyam Sundar

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29 Comments

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I think only 40% of Americans even have a passport so requiring a vaccine passport for everyone is bound to fail.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Why can't VaxThemAll people understand and accept most are not anti-vax but just against new mRNA because no long track records on side effects? This intolerance to others is simply not acceptable and is on the border of authoritarism, and like already written million times if you fear & can't wait...get your vaccine, enjoy your protection and stop making noise.

That sums it up pretty well.

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

All I am saying is that this is still an irrational, illogical decision, you are exposing yourself to very real and much higher risks than what you imagine mRNA vaccines have. Pretending the disease (or other kinds of vaccines) are risk free is still an invalid reason to wait. This is no advice just a very clear and easy to prove reality.

All this and yet no comment about my mention of the promises that Novavax and Shionogi hold for many.

You make mRNA vaccines sound like a "miracle cure".

www

-4 ( +7 / -11 )

Well, if they were able to roll out the mRNA vaccines in 6 months or so, I think I can wait for the non-mRNA types that are in the works, such as Novavax or Shionogi. What's the matter, virus? You got no faith in science? If Pfizer and Moderna could deliver, then I'm sure Novavax and Shionogi can too. As to why anyone would listen to your advice is beyond me.

All I am saying is that this is still an irrational, illogical decision, you are exposing yourself to very real and much higher risks than what you imagine mRNA vaccines have. Pretending the disease (or other kinds of vaccines) are risk free is still an invalid reason to wait. This is no advice just a very clear and easy to prove reality.

2 ( +11 / -9 )

"Waiting" as a much worse option because you are choosing a much higher risk than what has been observed in any of the vaccines approved for use in first world countries. This faulty reasoning depends on considering COVID free of risks, which is demonstrably false.

Well, if they were able to roll out the mRNA vaccines in 6 months or so, I think I can wait for the non-mRNA types that are in the works, such as Novavax or Shionogi. What's the matter, virus? You got no faith in science? If Pfizer and Moderna could deliver, then I'm sure Novavax and Shionogi can too. As to why anyone would listen to your advice is beyond me.

-6 ( +6 / -12 )

Why can't VaxThemAll people understand and accept most are not anti-vax but just against new mRNA because no long track records on side effects?

Because that is a completely illogical reason, COVID already have demonstrated long and even permanent health problems, and it has been studied for a much shorter time than the mRNA vaccine technology, that means it is still much more risky to "wait" for other vaccines, you are free to do it but it is not a rational or logical decision, you are simply intolerant of other people saying this, because it is true.

2 ( +11 / -9 )

Data generated by others will not make anyone ignore what they have seen with their own eyes.

It will not for people that believe themselves to be supreme judges of reality, but for professionals the knowledge of personal bias do not replace higher forms of data is a requirement, you are not justifying their actions, you are just explaining the invalid reasoning that make them act wrongly.

VIrus_rex I know for a fact that no hospital routinely sequences the spike protein as there is no change in treatment, which absolutely proves to me you know nothing.

This of course is product of a terribly outdated and limited way to see hospitals, that do not have exclusively treatment as their objective, in reality hospitals have also as part of their mission research to improve the public health, collaborating with research by using their available means is terribly common, and for any hospital with a sequencer and access to COVID samples this is a simple way to collaborate and even gain prestige for the hospital (and economic gains).

The same here. Not anti-vax. I'm waiting for a safe vaccine.

"Waiting" as a much worse option because you are choosing a much higher risk than what has been observed in any of the vaccines approved for use in first world countries. This faulty reasoning depends on considering COVID free of risks, which is demonstrably false.

2 ( +11 / -9 )

Why can't VaxThemAll people understand and accept most are not anti-vax but just against new mRNA because no long track records on side effects? This intolerance to others is simply not acceptable and is on the border of authoritarism, and like already written million times if you fear & can't wait...get your vaccine, enjoy your protection and stop making noise.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

It will work it’s self out. In few years time a non Vacer go to emergency and the nurse see by looking up his name he is a non vaccer. Do you think the non vaccer will be rush through or push to the back. Lol I say there the door tell your story walking. So the non vaccine people at some point will have see the doctor and they won’t get appointments without a vaccine passport. They are only cruelling themselves

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

I am waiting for the traditional vaccine of an inactivated protein. So this is why I am a holdout. I don't want man-made genetic sequences entering my body which is not proven.

The same here. Not anti-vax. I'm waiting for a safe vaccine.

-2 ( +10 / -12 )

Many healthcare workers too are holding out because they have directly witnessed many suffering the consequences of the vaccines.

Thinking their own personal experience can triumph data obtained from literally millions of patients analyzed in detail to see any possible problem with the vaccines would mean those healthcare workers are deeply unprepared to do their jobs, that require a good understanding of scientific evidence.

Data generated by others will not make anyone ignore what they have seen with their own eyes. And those generating that "data" have many times been caught falsifying it!

-5 ( +6 / -11 )

Its funny that most (not all, but most) of the comments here kind of prove the author’s point. The anti-vax crowd ignores the content and has a very paranoid response to it. The pro-vax crowd also mostly ignores the content and keeps on slamming the stubbornness and paranoia of the anti-vaxers. And nobody’s mind gets changed.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Many healthcare workers too are holding out because they have directly witnessed many suffering the consequences of the vaccines.

Thinking their own personal experience can triumph data obtained from literally millions of patients analyzed in detail to see any possible problem with the vaccines would mean those healthcare workers are deeply unprepared to do their jobs, that require a good understanding of scientific evidence.

Refusing because they think their biased personal experience is more reliable than the full accumulated knowledge of the medical community of the world disqualify them from being professionals.

0 ( +15 / -15 )

If someone does not value their own life, what can anyone do?

3 ( +10 / -7 )

VIrus_rex I know for a fact that no hospital routinely sequences the spike protein as there is no change in treatment, which absolutely proves to me you know nothing.

-1 ( +14 / -15 )

Yes, Wick's pencil. Good point. They know if anyone knows. briefly, and this is a fact, patients who come into the emergency room with a stroke have to wait for a PCR test. If they are positive and die it is a Covid death. This is an irrefutable fact. The nurses know this.

-1 ( +13 / -14 )

Many healthcare workers too are holding out because they have directly witnessed many suffering the consequences of the vaccines.

I’d guess it would be a disproportionately high number compared to the general population given they directly witness many of the problems you highlight.

Is it?

6 ( +12 / -6 )

I know vaccine 2 vaccine recipients who almost died. This is why there are so many hold outs and why protests are increasing through out the world.

Many healthcare workers too are holding out because they have directly witnessed many suffering the consequences of the vaccines.

-2 ( +14 / -16 )

I am Ivy League educated and a microbial geneticist by training, and spent 20 years working for a Japanese biomedical company and well -versed in science, immunology, vaccines and diagnostic testing.

But then again, you completely ignored that sequencing is part of the routine work done even on hospitals? Or think that there a chance of the vaccine integrating on your DNA, even if the viral infection has much higher chances for this to happen because of the replicating nature of the viral RNA and non-structural proteins?

It is extremely easy to say you have expertise, the difficult part is to demonstrate it, and specially to do it in a way that can actually contradict the actual experts and the objective data they use to demonstrate vaccines as effective and much safer than the natural infection. Appeals to authority from anonymous accounts are not worth to take into any account. How about a published scientific reference to support what you said?

2 ( +15 / -13 )

The author of this article writes: "Freedom is a critical concept in the anti-vaccination rhetoric. " Why would the author use the term "rhetoric"? So biased. Disgusting. I am Ivy League educated and a microbial geneticist by training, and spent 20 years working for a Japanese biomedical company and well -versed in science, immunology, vaccines and diagnostic testing. See above post. I am waiting for the traditional vaccine of an inactivated protein. So this is why I am a holdout. I don't want man-made genetic sequences entering my body which is not proven. There is a small chance for it to integrate into my DNA but more importantly I already know the side effects and they are damning. I know vaccine 2 vaccine recipients who almost died. This is why there are so many hold outs and why protests are increasing through out the world.

0 ( +12 / -12 )

I wonder why Laura Dodworth's excellent book 'State of Fear' is not mentioned in this article?

Because it is off topic, as anybody without bias and heavy denial of reality can readily understand. Would you ask the same on a topic about how to make people stop smoking?

The reality is that some people have a terribly poor understanding of the whole thing, but want to have strong opinions about it, so to replace the knowledge they are not willing to acquire fill the voids with unbelievable conspiracies. Thinking that there is only one recipe for mRNA vaccines, or that mRNA technology is a requisite to make COVID vaccines, using the Nurenberg code as a completely mistaken basis for the ethics of human treatment even when much more adequate basis is available from decades ago, using the unbelievable excuse of profit to say all doctors and scientists of the world are willing to use "dangerous" vaccines on themselves, their family and friends for profit (even if at a world scale that would mean the bribes would need to be much higher than the profits gained from them) Thinking that every single brand of PCR detection have to run at the same number of cycles, actively disregarding the huge amount of evidence of lack of efficacy of drugs being promoted by unethical scientists that manipulated studies and falsified data to profit personally, etc. etc. All these are examples of misinformation, things that depend completely on badly understanding the reality and blindly assuming this half-understanding can prove the world scientists wrong.

Because intelligent people are skeptical, as they should be

Being skeptical is one thing, actively refusing to accept objective evidence because of irrational fears and false misconceptions is another completely different.

The commercial PCR test used to identify a Covid-19 positive patient in a hospital/clinical setting only identifies a positive or negative result. So how can the health authorities anywhere in the world say all these infections are the Delta variant?

The same as it has been done for decades, by subjecting the sample to genetic sequencing, something that right now can be done on the same day in big hospitals for dozens and dozens of samples at the time, or a couple of days if the sample is sent to any of the multiple research centers that do this work routinely every day. There is nothing specially difficult in doing sequencing, even a postgraduate student of first year can do it without problems since it is not even necessary to sequence the full genome.

1 ( +15 / -14 )

I didn't think I had to bring proof for common knowledge. Headlines were filled with reports of myocarditis after use of the vaccine, as well as bloodclots from the J&J vaccine, and that's all before the booster-shots and longterm results.

Wow, you count headlines as being evidence? That explains a LOT of your posts.

-4 ( +11 / -15 )

I wonder why Laura Dodworth's excellent book 'State of Fear' is not mentioned in this article? It is the definitive breakdown on how the British government has employed behaviorist psychologists to nudge the population into compliance through marketing, propaganda, timing, manipulation of statistics, outright deception, and fear-mongering.

For example, regarding reconciling the cognitive dissonance that justify developing countries from producing mRNA's because of 'trade secrets' and the Nuremberg Code of 'Informed Consent' ... simply cherry pick a panel of well paid scientific experts to head a panel which gives official approval, avoid pointing out inconvenient changes in the narrative or inconsistent data, and show videos of high profile influencers getting jabs of a placebo saline solution.

Set up troll farms who employ ad-hominem attacks on anyone, even inventors of the technology being used, who question the narrative, withdraw previously assumed human rights from anyone who doesn't blindly comply, and apply the recently coined new definition (2018 Merriam Webster) of 'anti-vaxxer' to include anyone against 'mandatory vaccinations' (while conveniently omitting the 'medical' atrocities that led to 'informed consent' to begin with ... Unit 731, Josef Mengele, the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment, Project MKUltra ... or the current corporate track record of litigation against Big Pharma ... all of the mRNA producers and the Sackler Family-enriching opioid crisis.

Certainly do not mention how much money is being made at the expense of public health. The average yearly incomes of CEOs of Big Pharma, the financial incentives given to hospitals and clinics administering the injections, the change in PCR cycle goal posts for detecting the virus in unvaccinated people (40- 45) vs. the proof of efficacy of vaccines (28 cycles), the conflation of 'death by' with 'death with' in inflating numbers of CoVid victims, concealing the drop in deaths from previous pulmonary diseases, concealing research showing the safety and efficacy of cheap and widely available treatments, concealing the fact that the FDA does not conduct any tests of scientific efficacy and so the test results are presented by the same companies that stand to profit off of treatments, minimize or eliminate funding studies showing the effectiveness of NPIs (non pharmaceutical interventions) such as masking outdoors, staying indoors, imposing social (communicative) distancing, etc. Interviews on television should be chosen so as to appear to be random, but are effectively screened and approved ahead of time ... as are comments to articles.

And limit information to a one-way flow of propaganda from 'officially approved' news outlets and agencies. Close and/or edit comments that may foster critical thinking skills or upset the plans as published by Klaus Schwab in his June 2021 book, 'CoVid-19 and The Great Reset'. Any inconvenient truths can and have been erased from Wikipedia, YouTube, Facebook, and Google's search engine as a re-write and control of history ... so don't mention the internet 'Wayback Machine' or encourage people to use it.

-2 ( +12 / -14 )

This article is about how to best push one narrative for a specific outcome (get everyone vaccinated), in other words: PROPAGANDA.

There is nothing wrong with trying to push for something that can be objectively proved to be better using scientific data. The opposite is what is unacceptable.

Would you think negatively about pushing for a healthy diet? stop smoking? having a more active lifestyle? vaccination is the same, a health care intervention based on objective scientific data. The difference is your personal bias makes it easier to accept some of those interventions and reject others without a logical, rational basis.

An honest, transparent government might have a chance, but there are no honest governments, someone should try it one day and see how it works out.

And why would anybody had to trust governments? that is mostly an excuse to do something irrational, the people that are behind the recommendations are the experts of the whole world, doctors, scientists, specialists. Why would something become less truthful just because the government repeats it. Would you suddenly doubt that smoking is bad just because a government agency puts a campaign saying so?

As mentioned in other comments, some people are proud to be irrational, illogical and to base their decision exclusively on their perceived personal gain, logic and reason are not going to convince those people to change their opinion because they derive their whole self-value on doing as they want to do, listening to anybody else would mean they are worth less on their own eyes.

-7 ( +9 / -16 )

Forceful vaccine messages backfire with holdouts: How can it be done better?

I don't think it can. We're arguing with an ideology, not facts and logic. The same as religion requires faith to show belief, so does anti-vaxxism, and the same as no logic can get past that faith in religion, neither can it get through the faith that the anti-vaxxers have in their ideology. So all that's left is to keep them isolated from the rest of us as much as possible with vaccine passports.

-6 ( +9 / -15 )

There is no point using logic to persuade those that have abandoned it. Just make life as uncomfortable as possible for them.

No jab..No job

No jab..no school

No jab... no flight

No jab...no entrance to events

Also a charge them an additional fee for putting an extra strain on the health service.

And finally make it an offense to maliciously spread false information that endangers the public so we can lock these fools away.

-8 ( +10 / -18 )

You cannot lie, cheat, steal, embezzle, cover up and deny as a governing power and expect 100% of people to trust you when you need them to.

An honest, transparent government might have a chance, but there are no honest governments, someone should try it one day and see how it works out.

11 ( +14 / -3 )

This article is about how to best push one narrative for a specific outcome (get everyone vaccinated), in other words: PROPAGANDA.

It is not really "health communication" to get people to be better informed to make appropriate health decisions.

5 ( +14 / -9 )

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