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Mass shootings put spotlight on mental illness, but figuring out which conditions should keep someone from having a gun is no easy task

31 Comments
By Arash Javanbakht

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Well, imagine a society that subjects people to conditions that makes them unhappy, then gives them drugs to take away their unhappiness. 

Instead of removing the conditions that make people depressed, they are strongly encouraged to take antidepressant drugs. In effect, antidepressants are a means of modifying an individual's internal state in such a way as to enable him to tolerate social conditions that he would otherwise find intolerable. 

This isn't science fiction, this is already happening to some extent in a lot of countries, but to the largest extent in the United States... thanks to every second commercial on TV telling people they need these drugs. It is downright insidious and it has to stop.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Some might say that wanting to have a gun is a symptom of mental illness.

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Since the majority of mass shooters are either in the middle of mental health "treatment" or who have had it, I think it's about time we took an honest look at the ineffectiveness of psychiatry. As Jay points out, it's just a front for the pharmaceutic industry.

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BertieWoosterToday 07:04 am JST

Since the majority of mass shooters are either in the middle of mental health "treatment" or who have had it, I think it's about time we took an honest look at the ineffectiveness of psychiatry. As Jay points out, it's just a front for the pharmaceutic industry.

Psychiatric drugs are effective but people have to go through the process, get them, and take them. Afaik, few of the high profile cases are of someone that had even started the drugs.

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Sociologists back to Durkheim have proposed that societies themselves can be regarded as sick, with clear symptoms. In sick societies it is harder to maintain one's own mental health. All our societies are pretty sick. America just seems sicker than many others. Gun control, or not, is essentially treating a symptom because, like everywhere where identities are bound up with patriotism and some are benefitting mightily from the status quo, honest appraisal of the sickness is not popular.

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MoonrakerToday 08:01 am JST

America just seems sicker than many others.

Not when you consider that it does not have ethnic nationalism to fall back on to "unify" people.

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Mass shootings put spotlight on mental illness

Er ... not in normal countries they don't.

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Sociologists back to Durkheim 

Lol. There are those among us who have a low opinion of sociology, seeing it as an excecedingly sloppy mash up of economics and psychology without any pretense of the rigor those two disciplines apply to their research. I once had an Econ professor for my first graduate seminar who was also an accomplished PhD physicist who, after earning his PhDs in Physics and Economics earned a PhD in Sociology just so he could credibly prove what a load of manure Sociology is.

One of the two sociology professors I had as an undergrad was absolutely fixated on people's toilet training, attributing all and sundry personal quirks to the severity or lack thereof of their toilet training. Weird dude. Japanese too.

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was absolutely fixated on people's toilet training, attributing all and sundry personal quirks to the severity or lack thereof of their toilet training.

Sounds like Freudian psychoanalysis rather than sociology.

Well, I am not claiming fealty to sociology, just making a point that the societies we grow up in can be sick and influence the minds of their citizens. We create our institutions and they create us. It is not hard to trash classical economics for it is not an empirical science and its assumptions are pretty bogus but it too increases the likelihood of an insane society focused on the short to very short term

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All buyers purchasing a gun need a mental health check.

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What has mental health checks to do with just banning ALL automatic weapons, especially the AR15's. No one in their right mind should even want or even think of buying one of these mass killing weapons. Then there are the loony's who own 50+ guns and are proud of it, I mean, really!!!!! The gun laws in the USA are helping the killers carry out these murderous crimes, but hey, the politicians say its OK.

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Meh. Just rinse and repeat.

After all, it's all about Mah "Freedom!"

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The US gun rights are an inspiration for the folks around the world who are forced to live under oppressive and draconian gun laws.

What a magical fantasy you believe in.

I think most of the right wing folks on here should be worried if psychiatric checks are introduced.

Their belief in far right conspiracies, hatred of minorities and large personal arsenals would certainly make them a ‘Person of Interest’ to the authorities.

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I am very happy living in a country with strict guns that I do not find oppressive or draconian.

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I am very happy living in a country with strict guns that I do not find oppressive or draconian.

Me too

1 ( +6 / -5 )

I'd make ammunition illegal. Change it to salt pellets.

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All of them!

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

All buyers purchasing a gun need a mental health check.

The way this admin. has been behaving over the last two years by violating so many civil liberties of Americans, the majority of gun owners just would go along with the program, there would be little chance of it passing either chambers.

Standard response: Then you'll be denying people the right to bear arms for the purposes of self- defense, as criminals don't follow laws, will have real bullets, and salt pellets won't protect you from real bullets. 

It'd be like saying you have the freedom of speech, you're just not allowed to use words.

That is exactly correct and that is why this is all smoke and mirrors and while I do think we need to heavily address the issue and concerns for mental illness.

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The gun culture and mental illness is a dangerous combination.

This national disgrace, due to our lack of political will, makes it more painful.

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bass4funk

All buyers purchasing a gun need a mental health check.

> The way this admin. has been behaving over the last two years by violating so many civil liberties of Americans, the majority of gun owners just would go along with the program, there would be little chance of it passing either chambers.

You posted you support mental health checks.

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You posted you support mental health checks.

I also posted that with the condition we don’t have the same government in place and watch dogs to make sure that these government officials don’t abuse our information regardless of their reasons, if not then No.

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That is exactly correct and that is why this is all smoke and mirrors and while I do think we need to heavily address the issue and concerns for mental illness.

A psychiatric check may lead to you losing your toys.

Your profile, based on the things that you claim and believe, puts you firmly in the category of persons likely to commit a gun crime.

And also that you are a convicted criminal, who should be prohibited from owning a firearm.

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Simply the urge to own a gun should be a disqualifier.

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A psychiatric check may lead to you losing your toys.

Wouldn’t know since I’ll never take one since one is not required on the books yet.

Your profile, based on the things that you claim and believe, puts you firmly in the category of persons likely to commit a gun crime. 

Well, I haven’t though.

And also that you are a convicted criminal, who should be prohibited from owning a firearm.

I’m not convicted of any crime, zero.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

As federal law stands now in the U.S., only an involuntary commitment for mental health treatment, or a judicial finding that a person was mentally incompetent to stand trial, is a federal prohibitor for a firearm purchase. Seriously mentally ill persons who have voluntarily admitted themselves for treatment remain eligible. However, the FBI NICS system has an existing process by which an individual, with concurrence by a doctor, can submit a form to have any future attempts to purchase denied. This process needs to be more widely shared with mental health providers who can work with clients who are acutely aware of the potential risk they pose to themselves and others to reduce the risk from firearm possession.

There was a comment that there are stricter background checks for purchase of automatic weapons and others that fall under the National Firearms Act of 1934. That is not the case. The background check is the same FBI check for ordinary firearms. The difference lies in the registration of the firearms and the tax payment. It is true that criminal use of NFA weapons is rare. I think that is because most firearm enthusiasts, including owners of large numbers of weapons, are not the ones out there committing violent crime with them. The anti-gun crowd is strangely preoccupied with "right wing gun owners" and it lowers their credibility in this discussion.

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Question from an outsider: Why is it not possible to apply that to any firearm?

Because second amendment advocates would argue the point of firearm ownership is to defend oneself against a tyrannical government. Giving that same government power to regulate who can own firearms would give that government too much power over the people

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