Medical tourism: Traveling outside U.S. for care is common

The largest sector of bankruptcies is medical ones. Many health insurance plans, unlike universal health, do not cover all the medical treatment needed. The high costs of drugs force some people to buy them from Canada and Mexico. Insulin is way too expensive for needy people. 40 million people can't afford basic healthcare.

Many tens of thousands die every year not able to receive treatment.

Medical tourism can be dangerous and disastrous for many.

In the US medical insurance does not cover cosmetic (optional) medical treatment, so it is irrelevant if there are "problems" with medical insurance.

Since the problems are not exclusive to cosmetic medical treatments (which are not the only kind of procedures that are optional or elective) then obviously it is completely relevant. Pretending every procedure US citizens are choosing to do in other countries are cosmetic is obviously an invalid point and clearly refuted in the article.

No US medical insurance pays for cosmetic surgery.

It does for stuff like mastectomies, disfiguring accidents, extreme cases like if someone is born with an extreme deformity. etc. The Japanese national healthcare system even does in some cases and so does the American system - around the world too. You want a tummy tuck or a simple nose job that's another story. There might be a difference between cosmetic vs plastic, but they can overlap.

kurisupisu

I regularly have procedures done outside Japan which are up to a fifth of the Japanese price.

> I’ve found that the care and attention to detail and time taken are usually better than that in Japan.

Your wife works as a nurse you once said. In Japan, you are only paying 30%. My cancer op cost just ¥150,000. In the US it would have cost many thousands of dollars.  $8507 to $15690.

No US medical insurance pays for cosmetic surgery. So, there is no link between cosmetic surgery and lack of medical insurance.

A simple search can prove this to be wrong, cosmetic surgery can be covered by insurance depending of several factors, what evidence do you have to refute what actual experts say about this?

https://www.apresplasticsurgery.com/blog/what-cosmetic-surgery-procedures-are-covered-by-insurance/

There are some cases, however, when even cosmetic surgeries may be deemed necessary for health or functionality. For instance, many people suffer from impaired vision as a result of excess eyelid skin that droops into their field of vision. In this scenario, a blepharoplasty – or eyelid lift – may be partially covered by an insurance company. Another surgery that can sometimes be shown to be medically necessary is a panniculectomy, or excision of the excess skin on the lower abdomen (pannus). For some after weight loss patients, this hanging skin severely impairs their mobility and even causes chronic skin rashes, irritation, and infections.

I’ve had two knees replaced in Japan. In fact at the time of my second knee replacement, my sister was having one done in the U.S. She got an itemized bill for hers. Just the metal joint they put in cost around $20,000.

Of course, I had insurance here. But, had I not had insurance, the total cost of my surgery would have been around $20,000. including a nine day hospital stay versus maybe one in the U.S.

The Japanese system works far more efficiently than the U S one. And if you want to talk about, quality of care, you wouldn’t want to get my sister started Her surgical leg was left centimeters shorter than her non surgical leg. She had to have her knee done a second time and it still isn’t right. I on the other hand have a better quality of life and nearly never have any pain compared to the decades I waited to get the surgery on the advice of U.S. doctors.

As described in the article this can be a risky way to get a necessary or optional medical treatment, which is unfortunately too common thanks to the huge problems with medical insurance in the US, and it is nothing that just began to happen. There is a 10 year old joke about a patient spending more money by getting a new hip in the US than if he travel to get the surgery in Spain, recover while living there, running with the bulls in the San Fermin festival and get the hip replacement broken, to finally get another replacement.

Pretending every procedure US citizens are choosing to do in other countries are cosmetic

Medical insurance can potentially cover reconstructive cosmetic/plastic surgery in any country. Some Americans go outside for more affordable healthcare. Also some Americans go outside for healthcare in a country that has a better efficacy rate than in the US and it's not just about saving money.

You performed the wrong search. And a two year old link!

It is not wrong nor there is any evidence this is not valid right now.

What evidence do you have that the source (with experts that belong to the American Board of Plastic Surgery, American Society of Plastic Surgeons and American Society of Aesthetic Plastic Surgey) are wrong when they explicitly contradict you?

Again, cosmetic surgery is not covered by insurance, and the "actual experts" say nothing about this, unless you refer to the insurance experts, because the medical doctors do not determine if insurance covers procedures or not..

Doctors that say their procedures are covered by insurance have a much more valid appeal to authority than you that presented absolutely no evidence to contradict them, obivously you have no valid appeal of authority to do it.

This procedure is given a CPT code, for which most under that code are denied as non-covered. When would the nose job be covered?

Again, YOU claiming is not covered while surgeons saying it can be means they are much more likely to be correct.

When the purpose is not to improve the person's appearance, and there are signs of abnormalities, insurance might cover the procedure as it is a medically necessary procedure. 

The examples given clearly include the purpose of improving the person appearance and still being considered medically necessary, the link makes that very clear. This reason do not demonstrate the cosmetic procedures are not covered but the opposite, explains situations where they are, while still being cosmetic. Other users have made the same point, against whom you also failed to provide any evidence to contradict them, only claims not supported by anything.

My aging American mother had two new hips and two new knees which were very expensive. Many tens of thousands.

Obama promises turned into just an insurance scam.

Obama wanted the public option and the other side voted it out. He also wanted to raise the compensation for Medicaid practitioners (which the other side didn't want). That would have worked well. Proof? Look at Japan with their big public [option -- main system]. It's funny that Trump people live and stay in Japan (and use the public health system) but hate ObamaCare. ObamaCare didn't work because of the Republicans.

Trump's Trumpcare is nothing but injecting Mr. Clean to treat COVID-19. Other than that there is no TrumpCare plan.

One more thing. Obamacare was invented by the Republicans, especially the mandate (which Japan has especially)

I regularly have procedures done outside Japan which are up to a fifth of the Japanese price.

WOW! Which country is this? Does this include expensive cancer treatments?

In Japan, you are only paying 30%. 

And it maxes out around 60 or 100 thousand per month and if it gets real expensive and/or chronic you get an extra break.

Medical insurance can potentially cover reconstructive cosmetic/plastic surgery in any country.

No US medical insurance pays for cosmetic surgery. 

*is only to improve the person's appearance and there are no abnormalities *it is considered

Which is it? No consistency in your argument.

You are completely wrong. None of those institutions are insurance companies.

Again, both accounts repeating the same baseless claim do not make it less wrong.

You keep making claims that were debunked by actual professionals that explicitly say these procedures can be covered.

So again, do you have evidence these professionals are wrong about their own field? saying they are wrong just because you think so is not an argument, if anything is the opposite because you make it clear you have no such argument.

The doctors or surgeons, American Board of Plastic Surgery---NONE of those have the ability to approve or deny insurance coverage.

But they still have a much more valid appeal to authority than two accounts repeating the same baseless claim, this is their field and they obviously know what can or not be approved by insurance. You on the other hand only claim the opposite without ever providing anything to support this personal belief.

And as mentioned above, CPT codes are used to determine if a procedure is for only cosmetic purposes (and will therefore be denied).

What is the purpose of providing a link that actually refutes your claim? the link clearly stipulates what is necessary for cosmetic procedures to be covered. There is is very little that could be more clear than explaining precisely how to make sure the cosmetic procedures are covered by insurance. Not only does the link never proves cosmetic procedures can't be approved, it does the opposite and shows how CPT codes for cosmetic surgery CAN be approved.

So the original claim:

No US medical insurance pays for cosmetic surgery. 

Has been disproved not only by experts talking about their field, but also thanks to your link, that clearly and explictly say medical insurance pay for cosmetic surgery.

Neither of the accounts proved the original mistaken claim, this is a pattern repeated in several previous articles where one of the accounts makes a false or baseless claim and the other just repeats it.

This is about insurance in the US that does not cover cosmetic procedures. Only surgery that is medically necessary will receive insurance coverage.

And a very easy to find source demonstrated that your personal opinion is mistaken, with plastic surgeons (that obviously know very well what can be or not included in insurance on the US) explicitly saying that what you believe is wrong, again, what actual evidence do you have to prove them wrong?

There are no professionals mentioned anywhere in the article or in your comments that works for an insurance company.

So your argument is that plastic surgeons have no idea of what can be covered in insurance even when they explicitly say they do? that makes no sense, they actually have a valid appeal of authority that obviously makes them a much more reliable source of information than a nameless person on the internet saying they are wrong with no evidence.

But we have the codes used by the American Medical Association, which clearly describe what kind of procedures are covered by insurance, and what kind of procedures are not.

An a reference from the other account that proves these codes CAN be covered by insurance and giving instructions to do so. So you proved yourself wrong with that link.

Yeah, what happened to the health care debate? Obama promises turned into just an insurance scam. I guess with all the Dem bots addicted to Ukraine, there will be nothing done. All according to plan. Bring back Ralph Nader who was neutered by the Dems.

virusrexToday  11:20 am JST

It is not wrong nor there is any evidence this is not valid right now. 

What evidence do you have that the source (with experts that belong to the American Board of Plastic Surgery, American Society of Plastic Surgeons and American Society of Aesthetic Plastic Surgey) are wrong when they explicitly contradict you?

You are completely wrong. None of those institutions are insurance companies.

In the USA the insurance company ultimately decides whether or not a procedure is covered.

The doctors or surgeons, American Board of Plastic Surgery---NONE of those have the ability to approve or deny insurance coverage.

And as mentioned above, CPT codes are used to determine if a procedure is for only cosmetic purposes (and will therefore be denied).

https://www.cms.gov/medicare-coverage-database/view/article.aspx?articleId=58573&LCDId=38914

If you read some of the descriptions on the link it might help you to understand th process in the USA.

So again, do you have evidence these professionals are wrong about their own field? saying they are wrong just because you think so is not an argument, if anything is the opposite because you make it clear you have no such argument.

This is about insurance in the US that does not cover cosmetic procedures. Only surgery that is medically necessary will receive insurance coverage.

There are no professionals mentioned anywhere in the article or in your comments that works for an insurance company.

But we have the codes used by the American Medical Association, which clearly describe what kind of procedures are covered by insurance, and what kind of procedures are not.

I regularly have procedures done outside Japan which are up to a fifth of the Japanese price.

I’ve found that the care and attention to detail and time taken are usually better than that in Japan.

A simple search can prove this to be wrong, cosmetic surgery can be covered by insurance depending of several factors, what evidence do you have to refute what actual experts say about this?

You performed the wrong search. And a two year old link!

Again, cosmetic surgery is not covered by insurance, and the "actual experts" say nothing about this, unless you refer to the insurance experts, because the medical doctors do not determine if insurance covers procedures or not..

So, how it works in the US, let's look at rhinoplasty (for laymen like us it means nose job).

This procedure is given a CPT code, for which most under that code are denied as non-covered. When would the nose job be covered?

When the purpose is not to improve the person's appearance, and there are signs of abnormalities, insurance might cover the procedure as it is a medically necessary procedure. When the purpose is only to improve the person's appearance and there are no abnormalities it is considered cosmetic and will be denied as non-covered.

No US medical insurance pays for cosmetic surgery. So, there is no link between cosmetic surgery and lack of medical insurance.

As described in the article this can be a risky way to get a necessary or optional medical treatment, which is unfortunately too common thanks to the huge problems with medical insurance in the US, 

In the US medical insurance does not cover cosmetic (optional) medical treatment, so it is irrelevant if there are "problems" with medical insurance.