health

Scientists baffled by monkeypox cases in Europe, U.S.

27 Comments
By MARIA CHENG

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But in the past week, Britain, Spain, Portugal, Italy, U.S., Sweden and Canada all reported infections,

Odd that this infection has just started to spontaneously erupt in countries that have the best access to err... umm... newly developed advanced medical products.

-3 ( +11 / -14 )

Bronco:

But not at all odd that in order to keep up your desperate attempts to discredit “err… umm… newly developed advanced medical products”, you’re totally ignoring the part of the article that refers to most of the monkeypox sufferers as being young men engaging in homosexual sex.

4 ( +10 / -6 )

Nasty bit of news for the naughty bits.

Monkeypox lesions on the face or genitals,

7 ( +9 / -2 )

you’re totally ignoring the part of the article that refers to most of the monkeypox sufferers as being young men engaging in homosexual sex.

This is indeed in the article.

However, men engage in these acts all over the world.

Shouldn't Africa be the epicenter of this outbreak?

The outbreak is only in certain western countries at this point, that needs to be investigated, and it seems to be erupting almost spontaneously, just like the recent rash of Hepatitis infections among children (in the same countries) that remain unexplained.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Nasty bit of news for the naughty bits.

The lesions form on the hands, arms and upper body too.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

The outbreak is only in certain western countries at this point, that needs to be investigated, and it seems to be erupting almost spontaneously, just like the recent rash of Hepatitis infections among children (in the same countries) that remain unexplained.

Well, we'll see. But if your intention here is to link the hepatitis cases to Covid vaccines, that's a suggestion that's been thoroughly debunked. In the UK, for example, where the majority of cases have occurred, none of the affected children had even been vaccinated against Covid. Too young.

https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.329J2TA

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccines-health-idUSL2N2WJ18L

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-61242471

Shouldn't Africa be the epicenter of this outbreak?

With about 4.7 billion people worldwide fully vaccinated against Covid, shouldn't this outbreak be much more than the 80 or so cases so far?

This has happened before in the United States. In 2003, 47 people in six US States were confirmed infected with monkeypox after it spread from infected animals. In 2003, of course, there was no Covid vaccine.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/16/us/monkey-pox-case-us.html

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

where the majority of cases have occurred, none of the affected children had even been vaccinated against Covid. Too young.

Yes, but it's now been found that spike proteins from mRNA vaccines can be transmitted via breastmilk.

0 ( +7 / -7 )

Bronco:

As I said, we’ll see. I’ll accept the scientific explanation for the outbreak, even if does support your theory. Will you, if it doesn’t?

2 ( +8 / -6 )

As I said, we’ll see. I’ll accept the scientific explanation for the outbreak, even if does support your theory. Will you, if it doesn’t

The cause will never be found, as with AIDS, cancer, coronavirus, autism etc, there is never a search for the root cause, only a way to mitigate the symptoms.

-2 ( +6 / -8 )

Bronco:

I’ll take that as a “no”, then.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

there is never a search for the root cause

I find that an odd statement. In the case of Monkey Pox (and Covid) the root cause is a virus that has been identified. We could also say the root cause is nature (or Wuhan labs if you prefer). Should we wipe out nature or try to create widespread immunity so the viruses no longer survive?

(Autism is something quite different - it's not a disease.)

1 ( +6 / -5 )

I find that an odd statement. In the case of Monkey Pox (and Covid) the root cause is a virus that has been identified. We could also say the root cause is nature

What is the root cause of the immune system failing which then allows the virus to take hold?

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

What is the root cause of the immune system failing which then allows the virus to take hold?

You've got me there. I've no idea. But is it a case of the immune system failing or simply not existing for certain people in regard to certain diseases? We're not all the same.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

“a notable proportion” of the infections in the UK and Europe (Spain and Portugal, and others) have been in young men with no history of travel to Africa and who were gay, bisexual or had sex with men.

Sounds like how HIV-AIDS started.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Bats in China, monkeys in Africa.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Funny how the emphasis on homosexual sex being a potential spreader is only the case in predominantly Christian countries. Homosexuality exists everywhere... so why is it only spreading among homosexuals where anti-gay sentiment is rising?

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Wow!! What’s next?

1 ( +1 / -0 )

What is the root cause of the immune system failing which then allows the virus to take hold?

The same cause as in every infection, pathogens are adapted to defeat the immunity.

The cause will never be found, as with AIDS, cancer, coronavirus, autism etc, there is never a search for the root cause, only a way to mitigate the symptoms.

For all your examples very important finding have been done about the root cause, and that have lead to improvements to prevent similar occurrences, one thing is that you have no interest on finding out, another very different that it has not been done.

Shouldn't Africa be the epicenter of this outbreak?

The article mentions Nigeria has thousands of cases every year, it would be much more difficult to find out a smaller outbreak in the middle of a more frequent natural prevalence. For this the contrast in countries with better vigilance systems and close to zero prevalence facilitates the detection.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

You've got me there. I've no idea. But is it a case of the immune system failing or simply not existing for certain people in regard to certain diseases? We're not all the same

I doubt what we are seeing is any kind of failure of the immune system. If you consider the many billions of times a pathogen like Monkeypox reproduces itself each year, the chance that every reproductive event goes perfectly is essentially zero. There will be mutations and defects in some instances. In most cases these defects and mutations do not give the pathogen any advantage, some will even worsen its ability to survive and reproduce, and the mutation dies off quickly. Other times a mutation is neutral, neither harming or helping survival and that mutation continues to turn up from time to time. But once in a while there will be a mutation that gives the pathogen an edge over its un-mutated cousins in terms of survival or ability to reproduce. In addition there can be cases where there is a change in the pathogen's environment, say the introduction of antibiotics or anti-viral drugs and one finds that a previously neutral mutation floating around in the gene pool endows the holders of that mutation an advantage in this newly altered environment. An example would be a white bear in an oak woodland would not be a good thing. But throw in an ice age and suddenly being a white bear has a major survival advantage over brown and black bears. I think we are experiencing something similar here, but genetically sequencing samples of the virus taken from current patients will determine if there was a survival enhancing change in the virus samples taken from sufferers.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

BroncoMay 21  05:10 pm JST

What is the root cause of the immune system failing which then allows the virus to take hold?

Good question.

The same cause as in every infection, pathogens are adapted to defeat the immunity.

Wrong.

The question is about the root cause of a failing immune system. Not about pathogens "adapting."

One of the root causes of the failing immune system is the ability of white blood (phagocytes, and lymphocytes) cells to be active enough to either produce enzymes to fight off pathogens, or to produce antibodies to basically slow down pathogens so that phagocytes can destroy the pathogens.

Of course, things like age, medications and so forth can weaken the immune system and inhibit the white blood cells activity.

Experts have stressed they do not know if the disease is being spread through sex or other close contact related to sex.

Some do know.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Wrong.

The question is about the root cause of a failing immune system. Not about pathogens "adapting."

That is the point, there is no "failing" of the immune system, there is infection, which is a natural process product from the adaptation of the pathogens.

One of the root causes of the failing immune system is the ability of white blood (phagocytes, and lymphocytes) cells to be active enough to either produce enzymes to fight off pathogens, or to produce antibodies to basically slow down pathogens so that phagocytes can destroy the pathogens.

Something that do not apply at all for the outbreak of monkeypox because it does not require any kind of failing of the immune system, it can infect normal, healthy people.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

That is the point, there is no "failing" of the immune system, there is infection, which is a natural process product from the adaptation of the pathogens.

Wrong. The reason there is infection is because of the weakened immune system. The natural process would be for the immune system to fight off the pathogens, and as a result, no infection. This is a easy concept to understand.

Something that do not apply at all for the outbreak of monkeypox because it does not require any kind of failing of the immune system, it can infect normal, healthy people.

You are making a comment out of context, as my accurate explanation breaks down the root cause of a failing immune system.

Regardless, the immune system does have an affect on whether someone becomes infected with monkeypox or not, as the article makes a clear point:

“Aside from people in west and Central Africa who may have some immunity to monkeypox from past exposure, not having any smallpox vaccination means nobody has any kind of immunity to monkeypox,” Happi said.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Wrong. The reason there is infection is because of the weakened immune system.

Present evidence for this, because that has not been even reported as a related factor, it is all product of your imagination.

You are making a comment out of context, as my accurate explanation breaks down the root cause of a failing immune system.

So what is the point of your explanation then? just a random fact unrelated to the article? that would be the off topic thing. The context is the article itself.

“Aside from people in west and Central Africa who may have some immunity to monkeypox from past exposure, not having any smallpox vaccination means nobody has any kind of immunity to monkeypox,” Happi said

That is still about normal functioning, healthy immunity. Nowhere it is mentioned any failing, people become immune to things after contact, so without contact to either the pathogen nor from a vaccine against a related virus there is no way to acquire it, no "weakened" immunity of any kind.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Just as a matter of interest, one of the ingredients in these so called vaccines is green monkey tissue.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Just as a matter of interest, one of the ingredients in these so called vaccines is green monkey tissue

Vero cells are not an ingredient of the COVID vaccines used in the locations of the outbreaks, it is used for the inactivated virus vaccines only and by definition those vaccines are made by killing the virus.

Also pox viruses are part of the easiest pathogens to identify (their genome is hundreds of thousands of bases long, compared with the 30k of the SARS-CoV-2) so it is not realistically possible that cells or vaccines approved for humans are contaminated with it.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Cases of the smallpox-related disease have previously been seen only among people with links to central and West Africa. But in the past week, Britain, Spain, Portugal, Italy, U.S., Sweden and Canada all reported infections, mostly in young men who hadn’t previously traveled to Africa.

As with Covid, where infections were showing up in people who had not travelled to China.

Present evidence for this, because that has not been even reported as a related factor, it is all product of your imagination.

Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of how the immunity works in relation to infections would not even consider making such statement. But try and present evidence to support otherwise if you can.

So what is the point of your explanation then? just a random fact unrelated to the article? that would be the off topic thing. The context is the article itself.

If you read carefully instead of trying to promote your opinion then you would easily understand.

That is still about normal functioning, healthy immunity. Nowhere it is mentioned any failing, people become immune to things after contact, so without contact to either the pathogen nor from a vaccine against a related virus there is no way to acquire it, no "weakened" immunity of any kind.

Present evidence for this because those are broad generalizations with no underlying medical basis to support.

Vero cells are not an ingredient of the COVID vaccines used in the locations of the outbreaks, it is used for the inactivated virus vaccines only and by definition those vaccines are made by killing the virus.

There is no evidence vero cells are not in the Covid vaccines mentioned here; show data proving otherwise.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of how the immunity works in relation to infections would not even consider making such statement. But try and present evidence to support otherwise if you can.

Why not? it is true, the simple fact that no evidence have been presented is what support the argument that there is no evidence of it. That is the whole point.

If you read carefully instead of trying to promote your opinion then you would easily understand.

If your comment is on topic so is responding to it to correct it, if you think it should not be discussed then you are wrong by making it, no other consideration is possible.

Present evidence for this because those are broad generalizations with no underlying medical basis to support.

Trying to guess the qualifications of other posters is not an argument, actually is the opposite. Once again the point is that there is no evidence about any immune problem being related to the patients, so not presenting evidence supports this criticism.

There is no evidence vero cells are not in the Covid vaccines mentioned here; show data proving otherwise.

Of course there is evidence the inserts on the vaccines do not mention the cells, that means the burden of proof would be on the part of the person making that statement. The same would apply for anybody saying the vaccines have vitamins, bugs or anything else they could imagine.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

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