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Older U.S. adults should get another COVID-19 shot, advisory panel says

58 Comments
By MIKE STOBBE

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Why are a huge majority of Americans openly refusing to follow CDC guidelines?

For the same reason people do not follow every other health related advice, this is as much a "rejection" of the vaccines as the obesity epidemic is a rejection of the value of excercise and a good diet.

It is simple to demonstrate vaccinated people do much better, specially for vulnerable populations, but it is also very common for people to choose the worse option for their health.

-8 ( +13 / -21 )

And it's their choice to make.

The same as people that choose never to excercise and overeat repeatedly, it is their choice even when it can be demonstrated to be the worse. The complication is that the choices made in respect to communicable diseases also affect others so the consequences of making anti-scientific decisions can also be more severe.

People make wrong decisions all the time, pretending that those wrong decisions prove there is no value on vaccines (or excercise or a healthy diet) is what is invalid and wrong.

Don't call them names "you're an anti- (blah blah)" 

When people irrationally, purposefully lie and repeat misleading information that can be proved false with ease it is perfectly valid to call them antivaxxers or anti-science, that is what their actions merit.

It's simple, just respect the choices of other people, especially when it comes to invasive medical procedures that have known side effects.

As long as the people making those decisions accept the valid consequences of making them, specially when those decisions affect the health of others.

-12 ( +9 / -21 )

Is the shot free in the US?

-6 ( +2 / -8 )

So the 78% of US adults that refused the latest booster are all anti-vaxxers and anti-science?

No because they are not doing what is described in the part you left out of the quote, obese people are neither anti-science unless they are trying to mislead others saying sedentarism and having an atrocious diet is better for your health.

Do you advocate for measures to coerce them to take the booster?

The experts are the ones that can decide measures that protect public health, the same as prohibiting someone with active measles from working in a neonatal or immunocompromised ward, or someone with violent norovirus infection from working in a restaurant's kitchen. When public health is affected then it can be justified to make measures, have you seen any of the experts saying this about the boosters?

-12 ( +7 / -19 )

Why are a huge majority of Americans openly refusing to follow CDC guidelines?

Because it isn't to be trusted. That's why.

And this is the left-leaning ABC reporting this (see link below).

Which only means that the CDC's performance was even worse than was reported here.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/cdc-covid-guidance-confusing-overwhelming-organization-overhaul/story?id=88502792

8 ( +18 / -10 )

Why are a huge majority of Americans openly refusing to follow CDC guidelines?

Because it isn't to be trusted. That's why.

And this is the left-leaning ABC reporting this (see link below).

Which only means that the CDC's performance was even worse than was reported here.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/cdc-covid-guidance-confusing-overwhelming-organization-overhaul/story?id=88502792

6 ( +16 / -10 )

87% of children are not following the recommendations

Turning kids into pin cushions by pumping them with one COVID booster after another -- or even giving them a vaccine at all -- is insane to the point of almost being abusive.

With very few exceptions, kids are at virtually zero risk of death or serious consequence from COVID.

Again, except in the very rare case of a child having some serious pre-existing autoimmune-compromising health condition, the risks to COVID vaccination for kids far outweigh any benefits.

Benefits, in fact, are virtually nonexistent for this age group.

8 ( +18 / -10 )

> Because it isn't to be trusted. That's why.

Your reference do not say the CDC isn't to be trusted, it just say that the information it provides can be confusing and requires efforts to improve how it communicates with the people.

To say the CDC should not be trusted (in this recommendation) what you need is a reference that contradicts what is says with scientific information. Do you have this reference?

But you agree that the measles must be "active"

Anything that means a risk for others can become a justification for measures, people can appear perfectly healthy while infected with measles and still spread the disease for days as well. These people can be restricted from becoming a higher risk for others even if they still have not shown symptoms.

Turning kids into pin cushions by pumping them with one COVID booster after another -- or even giving them a vaccine at all -- is insane to the point of almost being abusive.

No, it is not, when covid becomes one of the leading causes of death for children and the vaccine has proved to be effective at reducing this risk what is abusive is to try to mislead the parents into refusing the vaccines with false information. The "virtually zero risk" is a know falsehood. Not only for death but also permanent consequences. It is irresponsible to a criminal degree to promote this and put children's lives and well being at risk.

https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2023-01-31-covid-19-leading-cause-death-children-and-young-people-us

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-55597-2

-13 ( +6 / -19 )

The panel's decision came after a lengthy discussion about whether to say older people “may” get the shots or if they “should" do so. That reflects a debate among experts about how necessary another booster is and whether yet another recommendation will add to the public's growing vaccine fatigue.

There were slide presentations.

The numbers I wanted to read?

The top eleven reasons (high to low), for physicians who reported NOT recommending COVID-19 bivalent boosters to eligible adult patients:

Patient will refuse booster vaccination;

Medical reason for not getting vaccinated;

Patients tired of hearing about COVID-19 vaccines;

High level of vaccine resistance in community;

Other;

Won't have severe COVID-19 symptoms;

Bivalent vaccine doesn't provide enough additional protection;

Vaccine unnecessary if they have had COVID-19;

Not enough time during visit to discuss vaccines;

Not enough time during visit to give vaccine;

Bivalent vaccine doesn't reduce COVID-19 severity in this age group;

[% of respondents selecting response options (n=744); source: CDC/RAND/Univ of Iowa Survey — February 2023; https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/slides-2024-02-28-29.html]

9 ( +10 / -1 )

One more slide from the meeting.

Percent of adults that reported that their healthcare provider recommends COVID-19 vaccine (2024 January) = 20.4%.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

For surely now more than ever, it's become evident that people who once existed on the periphery with "marginal" views were, in fact, the adults in the room.

Those of us who were asking:

"Have they had enough time to conduct these clinical trials?"

"Are you sure there aren't serious adverse effects?"

"Does natural immunity suddenly mean nothing anymore?"

"Are we supposed to vaccinate in the middle of a pandemic?"

All of these questions - that sounded perfectly reasonable at the time - have now been officially deemed reasonable, as the result of the largest ever multinational study, that has revealed that Covid vaccines can and do cause serious, adverse events.

6 ( +15 / -9 )

Good god, it's a simple question: is it free? Why is that such a challenge to some people?

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

Personally, I couldn’t be happier with my decision to think for myself and exercise my right to bodily autonomy. So happy I didn’t crumble to all the bullying, lies and disinformation. I trusted my own common sense and research from ethical, non-biased professionals in the fields of immunology, toxicology, epidemiology and evolutionary biology. I never got sick and like the majority of people, did not need a jab.

High five to Thuban, Quo Primum and everyone else who still has their health, integrity, autonomy and DNA intact in 2024.

2 ( +13 / -11 )

Why are a huge majority of Americans openly refusing to follow CDC guidelines?

Intelligence and being informed.

5 ( +14 / -9 )

For surely now more than ever, it's become evident that people who once existed on the periphery with "marginal" views were, in fact, the adults in the room.

What is adult about choosing what can be objectively be proved to be the worse option?

Those of us who were asking:

And the experts have proved beyond any reasonable doubt that vaccines were tested properly, there are no significant adverse effects, natural immunity is much worse than vaccinating and that literally millions of lives were saved by vaccinating opportunely during the pandemic.

Yet, people basically refuse to accept the evidence that proves every answer and ask again because the only answer acceptable is what they believe from the beginning.

as the result of the largest ever multinational study, that has revealed that Covid vaccines can and do cause serious, adverse events

In extremely low incidence rates, thus confirming the results of previous studies that prove the safety of the vaccines, antivaxxer groups are desperately trying to misrepresent the study, even to the point of literally contradicting the conclusions of the study.

https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.34K78ZW

The February 2024 publication of the largest peer-reviewed study of Covid-19 vaccine safety to date has inspired misleading social media claims that its findings show the jabs are unsafe. Study authors and independent experts say the research confirms that adverse reactions to vaccination are rare and pose far fewer risks than Covid-19 infection.

-11 ( +7 / -18 )

Intelligence and being informed.

Since the evidence clearly and unequivocally prove this decision is wrong the opposite is hugely more likely, the same as choosing to ignore proper dietary and excercise advice, just because most people ignore the best option that does not magically make it wrong.

-12 ( +6 / -18 )

Well done, Jay, you are a hero of doing your own research.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

Well done, Jay, you are a hero of doing your own research.

Thanks Moony. I hope all is well with you and the flock.

1 ( +10 / -9 )

Why are a huge majority of Americans openly refusing to follow CDC guidelines?

Intelligence and being informed.

Since the evidence clearly and unequivocally prove this decision is wrong the opposite is hugely more likely

Nah. Some cherry-picked pharma-funded papers and press releases say that, but it is clear by now that at this point the shots offer very little if any benefit and the risks of serious adverse effects are now undeniable.

That's why most people reject them...

5 ( +15 / -10 )

Nah. Some cherry-picked pharma-funded papers and press releases say that, 

That is still wrong, the whole literature on the topic says that, as proved by all the respected institutions on medical science clearly in consensus about vaccines being safe and effective.

Baselessly claiming that vaccines represent a higher risk than infection is demonstrably wrong, and since it can mislead other people to being exposed to risks to their lives and health it can be considered irresponsible even to a criminal degree.

When most people that disagree are unable to present actual evidence that refutes the consensus it is clear being informed is not the reason they have for disagreeing, the same as obesity.

-13 ( +6 / -19 )

13% of U.S. children have gotten the shots and about 22% of U.S. adults have.

Well, I've done my own research and it's about 2000 dollars to have the latest shot so many people who don't have such money don't want to pay the money even though they would really like to have the shot.

-10 ( +2 / -12 )

Well, I've done my own research and it's about 2000 dollars to have the latest shot so many people who don't have such money don't want to pay the money even though they would really like to have the shot.

According to the US government:

https://www.vaccines.gov/

The vaccines are still free either by insurance or by programs like Bridge access programs.

-10 ( +6 / -16 )

All people including migrants can have the covid vaccine for free.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

Ah thank, Virusrex. I am still new to all this. Simple, innocent questions either don't get a response or are somehow downvoted by the challenged. Now I realise that a blatant lie gets a better response, I will add that to my learnings.

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

wallace

Today 12:52 pm JST

All people including migrants can have the covid vaccine for free

So vaccine already paid for by govt?

Here in Japan we now have to pay for it?

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

COVID-19 remains a danger, especially to older people. There are still more than 20,000 hospitalizations and more than 2,000 deaths each week due to the coronavirus, according to the CDC. And people 65 and older have the highest hospitalization and death rates.

Still a lot it seems

-5 ( +2 / -7 )

Anything that means a risk for others can become a justification for measures, people can appear perfectly healthy while infected with measles and still spread the disease for days as well. These people can be restricted from becoming a higher risk for others even if they still have not shown symptoms.

You didn’t really answer his question. Is it okay to place restrictions on the entirety of society because some people might have measles?

3 ( +8 / -5 )

ian

wallace

Here in Japan we now have to pay for it?

The article is about the US, not Japan. Out of interest the COVID-19 vaccine cost in Japan? The charge is from April. I don't see what the charge will be.

We won't be having any more vaccines.

3 ( +6 / -3 )

Nah. Some cherry-picked pharma-funded papers and press releases say that, 

That is still wrong, the whole literature on the topic says that, as proved by all the respected institutions on medical science clearly in consensus about vaccines being safe and effective.

The "whole literature" does not say that; "respected institutions on medical science" are increasingly moving away from mass vaccination against Covid; and there never has been any "consensus" about these vaccines being safe and effective.

0 ( +10 / -10 )

and there never has been any "consensus" about these vaccines being safe and effective.

Of course not. Nothing is 100% safe and effective, and noone claimed so. That, however, does not mean the opposite, that they are unsafe and ineffective. Binary thinking is, in general but especially in medical matters, extraordinarily unhelpful, both to the asessment of measures and the discussion about them.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

In Japan, the free COVID-19 vaccines end Mar. 31st. Will be provided fall and winter for over 65s, 70% charge. Full charge other times.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

wallace

Today 01:39 pm JST

ian

> wallace

> Here in Japan we now have to pay for it?

> The article is about the US, not Japan. Out of interest the COVID-19 vaccine cost in Japan? The charge is from April. I don't see what the charge will be.

> We won't be having any more vaccines.

Yes, the first question or statement about being paid for was for the US, thanks.

Ah so free only until next month here in Japan

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

ian

if you want the booster vaccine you have a month to have it free.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

I'm a little confused.

The panel voted 11-1 to say Americans 65 and older should get another dose of the updated vaccine 

I thought the vaccines were safe and effective and critical for anyone 6 and older.

What happened?

Why isn't it recommended for anyone under 65??

2 ( +9 / -7 )

The CDC recommended the new shots for everyone 6 months and older, and allowed that people with weak immune systems could get a second dose as early as two months after the first.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

I'm a little confused.

You didn't read closely enough. The article is about an additional dose of the updated vaccine. In more common language: a XBB.1.5 booster shot.

Why isn't it recommended for anyone under 65??

It is. The CDC recommends everyone 6 months and older to get vaccinated, an updated vaccine for everyone 5 years and older, and -- as a result of this new advisory -- an additional updated dose for everyone aged 65 and over:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/stay-up-to-date.html

-5 ( +5 / -10 )

You didn’t really answer his question. Is it okay to place restrictions on the entirety of society because some people might have measles?

What restrictions on the entirety of society are you talking about? That is not happening.

The "whole literature" does not say that; "respected institutions on medical science" are increasingly moving away from mass vaccination against Covid

Again, you have been unable to present any institution that support the claim you made that the vaccines are more risky than the infection, that is still completely false, the institutions of medical science in the world still completely contradict what you claimed. The consensus is there.

I thought the vaccines were safe and effective and critical for anyone 6 and older.

They are, there is no contradiction.

Why isn't it recommended for anyone under 65??

Because vaccines are not made for free, so it is understandable that governments prioritize their spending to those at a higher risk when the rest of the population have already been immunized enough to reduce the benefit obtained, in a magical world where vaccines just appear when desired it would be easier to recommend it even at a lower limit of benefit.

As mentioned before, for those not yet vaccinated the vaccine is recommended from 6 months of age, even if infected previously.

-5 ( +7 / -12 )

Why isn't it recommended for anyone under 65??

It is. The CDC recommends everyone 6 months and older to get vaccinated, an updated vaccine for everyone 5 years and older, and -- as a result of this new advisory -- an additional updated dose for everyone aged 65 and over:

But thats not what the CDC says according to this article. It clearly says

*The panel voted 11-1 to say Americans 65 and older should get another dose of the updated vaccine *

Golly. Now I'm really confused. Common sense tells me the CDC doesn't actually recommend it for anyone under 65!

-3 ( +7 / -10 )

stan

Today 03:42 pm JST

Why isn't it recommended for anyone under 65??

> It is. The CDC recommends everyone 6 months and older to get vaccinated, an updated vaccine for everyone 5 years and older, and -- as a result of this new advisory -- an additional updated dose for everyone aged 65 and over:

> But thats not what the CDC says according to this article. It clearly says

> The panel voted 11-1 to say Americans 65 and older should get another dose of the updated vaccine

> Golly. Now I'm really confused. Common sense tells me the CDC doesn't actually recommend it for anyone under 65!

Perhaps you should rely on something other than your common sense.

Anyway, the quote I posted above is from this article here it is again

The CDC recommended the new shots for everyone 6 months and older, and allowed that people with weak immune systems could get a second dose as early as two months after the first.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

I know the reason.

Anyway if I remember correctly the one you're quoting is recommendation by the panel recommending to the CDC.

You can of course ignore CDC recommendation pretend it's isn't there

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

Wow, what a massive rejection rate.

I'd get every booster available if it were free and handled in 5 minutes. The current system is very inconvenient.

It isn't a rejection rate. It is purely an inconvenience or cost issue. Under my health plan, I have to go to the health care provider's office which isn't in a convenient location after making an appointment a week in advance. The shots for COVID are 100% covered. Same for Flu. I haven't gotten the annual flu shot since 2008 either.

For many people, their health plans allow walking into nearly any pharmacy on almost any corner to get COVID shots without any payment needed. There are about 3 pages of forms required and it does take about 30 minutes to get the shots. That's much different than the drive-thru shots that were free to everyone, sponsored by the Feds, and done in 5 minutes.

We don't spend much time in crowds, if ever, so what's the point of the shots? Come summer, we will be forced into some family gatherings and parts of the family seem to love crowds and get sick all the time. About 2 months before those high-risk activities, we'll get our COVID boosters.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

COVID-19 remains a danger, especially to older people. There are still more than 20,000 hospitalizations and more than 2,000 deaths each week due to the coronavirus, according to the CDC. And people 65 and older have the highest hospitalization and death rates.

I wonder which have lost / is losing more voters to covid

-8 ( +1 / -9 )

I just got my fourth booster shot, after the two initial vaccinations (total 6), two weeks ago. I have been luck in that I have not yet had covid-19. That luck will eventually run out, but at least I have continued to take all precautions I can to evade it. Booster shots is only one thing, I still wear masks for indoors shopping and disinfect going in and coming out. It is not hard or bothersome.

Sadly they no longer keep the public informed on the situation other than the odd announcement through media that the number of cases has risen sharply and deaths are going up. No numbers.

But once again the number of vaccination points is increasing so that in itself is an ominous indication the pandemic is by no means over. Especially for those who die from it, plus their families and friends who mourn them.

It is back to business as normal and ignore the dead. I find that pretty sad, but it is the world WE created and so we must live in it. Faults and all. Until we cant any longer. The global situation continues to deteriorate year after year. One wonders if there is any hope for the future at this point?

0 ( +7 / -7 )

87% of children are not following the recommendations and so are 78% of adults!

Why are a huge majority of Americans openly refusing to follow CDC guidelines?

Probably a combination of factors.

Lack of trust in authorities.

Belief it "will not happen to them", regarding serious illness or death.

Pure ignorance.

And likely other factors I have failed to mention.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

I'd get every booster available if it were free and handled in 5 minutes. The current system is very inconvenient.

Australia luckily has Universal health and makes all boosters free. Simply book a time and attend to receive your vaccination. It couldn't be any easier.

-2 ( +7 / -9 )

Realizing that all these vaccinations do not stop Covid I see no need for repeated injections.

I also question the need for repeated vaccinations for a virus which is now only a risk factor for the very aged or for those with weak immune systems.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Realizing that all these vaccinations do not stop Covid I see no need for repeated injections.

That makes no sense, the vaccinations do reduce the spreading, but even more importantly they do reduce the many different risks coming from the infection, including new ones being described almost at weekly basis (like cognitive decrease thanks to brain damage). This is like saying you don't have seat belts or air bags in your car since they don't make cars have less accidents.

which is now only a risk factor for the very aged or for those with weak immune systems.

The experts clearly say the risk is for everybody, not only because deaths are also important (enough to make covid a leading cause of death in children) but because it also comes with long lasting or permanent health damage. Perfectly healthy people can still die or become incapacitated by the infection.

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Realizing that all these vaccinations do not stop Covid I see no need for repeated injections.

Indeed, they do very little to reduce the spread. In fact, it is now clear that repeated injections produces large quantities of IgG4 antibodies, which result in immune tolerance to the spike protein (suppressing natural antiviral responses) and may also cause autoimmune disease, promote cancer growth in some people. Add to that all the other serious adverse events associated with these shots...

Also, by now most of us have been infected, thereby producing broad, robust, and long lasting immunity.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

may also cause autoimmune disease, promote cancer growth in some people

You forgot that it causes autism, diabetes, ingrown toenails, and grows cow heads on people.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Indeed, they do very little to reduce the spread

No, that is incorrect according to the best available science, as part of the measures recommended (isolation, testing, use of masks, antiviral therapies) reduction of the spread is significant.

it is now clear that repeated injections produces large quantities of IgG4 antibodies, which result in immune tolerance to the spike protein

No, that is still a wrong claim. If that were the case vaccinated people would do worse than non-vaccinated people and what actually happens is the opposite. In fact vaccinated people do better even when the vaccine is used after the person was infected, that epidemiological reality clearly contradicts the explanation you use, and one explanation that is contradicted by reality is not useful at all.

Also, by now most of us have been infected, thereby producing broad, robust, and long lasting immunity.

Natural infection is not guarantee for broad, robust and specially long immunity, on the other hand it is correlated with much higher risks that increase with the number of reinfections. 3 points of IQ lost for a case of covid (even if mild) and 2 more for each reinfection is not exactly what a good way to get immunity should be (but can explain why unreasonable antivaxx people become more and more fixed in that position).

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

That kind of attitude deserves nothing but ridicule

Always good to keep an open mind.

In that spirit, can I ask about the people behind the scamdemic/promoting a false consensus around Covid, the climate change hoax and the 2020 stolen election?

Is there any link between them?

I’m not being facetious here. It’s a genuine question.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

You all can have my shots. I am generous in that way.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Why isn't it recommended for anyone under 65??

Because vaccines are not made for free,

Wrong, this is not the scientific or any other consensus.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Wrong, this is not the scientific or any other consensus.

What scientific consensus say vaccines are free to produce and distribute? This is a perfectly valid reason to prioritize who should be vaccinated, pretending infinite resources are available is just magical thinking.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

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