health

Omicron, Delta variants combine for decision-making headache

10 Comments
By LORI HINNANT

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I don't agree with fining people for refusing a vaccine. The best solution would be to simply refuse treatment for the disease the vaccine would help prevent or at least refuse treatment until full payment has been made. Regardless of the consequences.

-8 ( +2 / -10 )

I don't agree with fining people for refusing a vaccine. The best solution would be to simply refuse treatment for the disease the vaccine would help prevent or at least refuse treatment until full payment has been made. Regardless of the consequences.

And how would this compensate the extra risk for others? The measure is not a punishment but a way to avoid exposing people, if someone irrationally rejecting a vaccine loses his job its negative for him, but for the community it is a plus (because of lower transmission). If he can keep his job but not treatment that is negative for him, but if that also leads to extra patients it is also negative for his community.

1 ( +7 / -6 )

There are plenty of very rational reasons to reject these risky gene therapies

Imaginary conspiracies and false data are the opposite of rational reasons, the vaccines lower the risk for anybody that can receive them and do not constitute gen therapy (no, not even gene therapy for the virus as you argue)

Unless you can prove "less effective" means the vaccines do not lower the risk you are still mistaken. There is a lot of room for the vaccines to still be useful even if they were proved less effective. Specially because omicron also makes the immunity from the natural infection less effective as well.

Nobody has produced data to compare the symptoms produced by omicron with those of other variants, every single one make people frequently sick in a mild way. Therefore this is not an argument either to say vaccines "less needed" specially when the one thing that is much more clear is that this variant displaces delta, so it is extremely likely to be more easily transmitted, something that makes vaccines more necessary.

2 ( +7 / -5 )

There are plenty of very rational reasons to reject these risky vaccines, especially now with the Omicron variant which: (a) has a heavily mutated spike protein thus making the vaccines less effective; and (b) appears so far to produce much milder symptoms, thus making the vaccine less needed.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

There are plenty of very rational reasons to reject these risky vaccines, especially now with the Omicron variant which: (a) has a heavily mutated spike protein thus making the vaccines less effective

First, you don't know if the vaccine is less effective or not, nobody does. Second, less effective is still hugely better than risking the natural infection. Both things make your statement mistaken. Early reports show that vaccinated people are doing much better than people that have not been vaccinated. Since the variant has an elevated risk of infection even for people that were previously infected the vaccine is even more necessary.

and (b) appears so far to produce much milder symptoms, thus making the vaccine less needed.

All variants produce mostly patients with mild symptoms, this is still enough to produce an excess of 5 million deaths, unless you can prove the infection do not increase the risk above background levels the vaccine is still necessary.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

The virus is getting milder, but the vaccines are just as riisky as they were on day one.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

The virus is getting milder, but the vaccines are just as riisky as they were on day one.

Which still does not change the fact that the vaccines reduce importantly the risk from infection, and that even if omicron is milder it still represents several orders of magnitude more risk than the vaccine.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

The virus is getting milder, but the vaccines are just as riisky as they were on day one.

Yes, for the young and healthy, the vaccines have so far been more risky than the virus. This is now especially true for Omicron, which has so far been significantly milder than previous variants. The vaccines are indeed just as risky as they were a year ago, but much less beneficial since the vaccine's mRNA sequence no longer matches Omicron's sequence.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

Yes, for the young and healthy, the vaccines have so far been more risky than the virus. This is now especially true for Omicron, which has so far been significantly milder than previous variants. The vaccines are indeed just as risky as they were a year ago, but much less beneficial since the vaccine's mRNA sequence no longer matches Omicron's sequence.

Since the risks (even from a much milder strain, something that omicron still have not proven to be) greatly outweighs the risks from any of the approved vaccines for children this is a completely irrelevant pseudo-argument. That is like saying driving has become less dangerous thanks to rules and engineering and seatbelts are not specially more effective. Both things can be true and that does absolutely nothing to the fact that wearing one (with the inherent risks) is still much better than not wearing it.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

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