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Patients need doctors who look like them. Can medicine diversify without affirmative action?

83 Comments
By KAT STAFFORD

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83 Comments

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Isn't science supposed to be colorblind?

19 ( +24 / -5 )

Patients need doctors who look like them

It's been a couple of decades since I had a doctor who "looked like" me. I've got no problem with that. I guess I'm more open minded and inclusive than most people.

22 ( +23 / -1 )

Imagine an AP article of equal length distributed for re-print globally promoting the idea that white people "need doctors who look like them"? The backlash would be insane.

21 ( +26 / -5 )

Diversity is not a strength.

15 ( +22 / -7 )

No what patients need are good doctors, period.

Not this North American junk from one whining group or another!

I am "white" the cardiologist that saved my life was Asian!

My present cardiologist, my immunologist and dermatologist are all Japanese females.

Why are they my doctors because they are good at their jobs.

If we go with all the crap western new speak and new think is trying to push on the rest of use.

I guess I should have a white male doctor and these three excellent female doctors should concentrate on Asian females only!

Can we stop this stupidity

21 ( +26 / -5 )

More "anti-racist" brainwashing.

14 ( +20 / -6 )

I need a doctor I can afford. I don't care what they look like.

17 ( +19 / -2 )

Four years of cancer treatment and post-cancer treatment involving more than 20 doctors. All male, all Japanese and Chinese. I sought out the best doctors and even traveled 100 km to a hospital to have the operation.

Excellent doctors and excellent treatment. They all took great care of me.

Never thought once I needed a "white doctor".

I think in Tokyo there are a few clinics with foreign doctors for foreigners.

The final costs of the operation were very low, especially compared to other countries.

13 ( +17 / -4 )

Isn't science supposed to be colorblind?

The article is not about science favoring or not one population but recognizing that medical attention quality can depend on the differences between people. Health care is not the same for everybody even if it should.

Imagine an AP article of equal length distributed for re-print globally promoting the idea that white people "need doctors who look like them"? The backlash would be insane.

That would have much more to do with the health care inequalities being tilted in their direction, which would make the unbalance even worse, the whole point is to make things equal, not just randomly focus on one group of people.

No what patients need are good doctors, period.

So how do you explain the disparities described in the article? it is just coincidence that some groups get less of those "good doctors"? obviously not.

This would apply if the situation was an homogeneous lack of quality in medical attention, but that is obviously not the case.

Diversity is not a strength.

According to the experts it is.

-7 ( +6 / -13 )

There are many women who will only allow women doctors. Then there are people like Muslim women who only want to be seen by a woman doctor.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

As a Black man who has lived in Japan for 20 years, I do not care there are no doctors that "look like me", whatever that means. When I had a pulmonary embolism last year I thanked God the medical team, all Japanese - imagine that - were the best I ever had and saved my worthless hide.

17 ( +20 / -3 )

Patients need doctors who look like them. 

No, they don’t. A few might want it, but none need it.

10 ( +14 / -4 )

Patients need doctors who know their stuff, listen to them and provide optimum, appropriate care.

In my time I’ve been treated by doctors of all hues. Some were good, some maybe not so good, but I never felt the quality of care I received was dependent on the doctor’s skin colour or mine.

America needs to get its act together and treat all its citizens as people, not as members of this or that group.

7 ( +9 / -2 )

As a Black man who has lived in Japan for 20 years, I do not care there are no doctors that "look like me", whatever that means

And how does your personal situation alleviates in any way the huge disparities the article is talking about?

If other article talk about how girls are segregated out of schools, would you consider positive or useful if someone else comments how their daughters went to college without problems?

No, they don’t. A few might want it, but none need it.

If this actually helps reducing the discrepancies in health care the article is talking about that means that yes, they do need them.

America needs to get its act together and treat all its citizens as people, not as members of this or that group.

But until this goal is achieved (if ever, looking at how long it is taking) this much less difficult measure can at least alleviate the specific problem of lower standards of care for some people. For some people the reality is that they do not get proper health care because of their ethnicity, and doctors sharing that ethnicity may help correcting this, personal examples where this is not the case do nothing to contradict the fact that it does happen and it can be corrected in this way.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

Looks like none of you (virusrex aside) actually read the article, and commented purely on the title.

Sad.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

virusrex

Today 10:56 am JSTSo how do you explain the disparities described in the article? it is just coincidence that some groups get less of those "good doctors"? obviously not.

Simple the inequality of the USA system that does not have universal healthcare!

Look at poor white regions of the USA and you will find the same disparities!

I never realised how bad it was until I watch a silly TV show called "Swamp People" the majority of those featured were white and non had any medical coverage, they get injured and you watch their wives turn into doctors, stitching them up with a home sewing kit.

After that did some research and found out the level of uninsured based on poverty is equal amongst all demographics regardless of colour or "race".

So it is a case of the social/medical system being broken nothing to do with colour, etc... the factor is poverty and the lack of a proper universal healthcare system.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

Tens of millions of Americans cannot afford basic healthcare. Even people with health insurance are landed with big ills for operations and hospital stays. The largest section of bankruptcies is the medical bills.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Simple the inequality of the USA system that does not have universal healthcare!

Just just proved that patients actually need doctors of their ethnicities since this is something that can importantly reduce the problem without needing something much more difficult thanks to the entrenched system that is so overly complicated and twisted that solving it requires even more social change.

This is something that can solve the problem in a much shorter scale of time (and solve many other problems as well) rejecting a useful measure that can deal with the problem in a faster way just because it is not a perfect measure do nothing to the people that will keep dying preventable deaths. It is easier, it is faster, it helps with many different problems, that means it is a perfectly valid solution to take.

If the system was fair then you would be correct, but it is not, so people still need doctors of their ethnicities.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

virusrex

Today 01:00 pm JST

Simple the inequality of the USA system that does not have universal healthcare!

> Just just proved that patients actually need doctors of their ethnicities since this is something that can importantly reduce the problem without needing something much more difficult thanks to the entrenched system that is so overly complicated and twisted that solving it requires even more social change

Nice try with the quote editing.

You completely ignored the fact that white in the same poverty situation in the USA are in the same boat as blacks, Hispanic Asian poor!

But again nice try.

This ridiculousness has even spread to Canada.

Universal healthcare means everyone gets the same treatment.

But we see some black medical student writing about the fact he had never seen a black doctor until he went to medical school blah blah blah.

What was left out of his rant was that he lived in a small town in Saskatchewan where his father was working and the only black family in that small town (another thing he complained about as if Canada was supposed to force black people to move to middle of nowhere in Saskatchewan.)

Canada has about 3% blacks but somehow these people expert a black doctor in every corner of the country.

This mentality was spread by those in the USA. The one country obsessed with race and perceived discrimination.

All you need to do is say something and the mentality is so pervasive that just saying hello in a tone they don't like get you called Racists!

So you can try and twist my comment as much as you like but the simple fact at 3% of the population Asians graduate medical school at a far higher rate than white, black or Hispanic not because they are smarter or richer but because they spend on average 4 times more time studying.

So race obviously has nothing to do with it but attitude has everything to do with it!

Blacks tried blocking Asians in the top Ivy League universities because despite the affirmative action priority given to black students Asians were still scoring higher even with the penalties being imposed to keep them out!

We don't need the race junk the USA is spreading.

3 ( +8 / -5 )

Having doctors of your own race or sex will not provide healthcare to the poor who have no healthcare insurance. The poor will continue to suffer without healthcare. There are poor people in all races.

It would be very difficult to educate and train the number of doctors required to match the numbers of a race and then locate them to where those races live.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Nice try with the quote editing.

What editing? it is the line you wrote. zero editing done.

You completely ignored the fact that white in the same poverty situation in the USA are in the same boat as blacks, Hispanic Asian poor!

No, that is exactly why the argument against yours hold, ethnicities are getting worst medical care and it is not explained just by having less economic resources, thanks for proving exactly the opposite of what you were trying to say in your fist comment.

This ridiculousness has even spread to Canada.

Which is why there is no such need for balancing ethnicities in medical providers either, it does not have (as much of) the problem, so it does not need the solution either.

Universal healthcare means everyone gets the same treatment.

And there would be no need to fix inequality, but there is no universal healthcare, and politicians in the US are making a huge effort to make this impossible to achieve for as long as possible.

So, the solution is to at least balance medical care so neglected populations get at least a minimum of standard of care, so more people can be kept alive and healthy for that utopic future where the US solves the much more complicated problems of fixing their public health system from the root.

So race obviously has nothing to do with it but attitude has everything to do with it!

The article makes a very good point about how focusing on race for medical professionals can solve a lot of the current problems, you pretending this does nothing is not a counter argument for it. Ignoring the article do not disprove it.

Having doctors of your own race or sex will not provide healthcare to the poor who have no healthcare insurance

But it is likely it would help solving deep inequalities as the article explains, saying a solution for a problem do not solve every problem is not an argument against the solution being effective against the problem it is being used agains.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

I would put my health care in Dr. Starling Tolliver any day. I have received a lot of NHS hospital care over the last 18 months from a diverse team of carers, doctors and nurses...and even a black porter, and not once have they disappointed me. The UK is very lucky to have the NHS because its free and they have wonderful staff.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Virusrex: "And how does your personal situation alleviates in any way the huge disparities the article is talking about?

If other article talk about how girls are segregated out of schools, would you consider positive or useful if someone else comments how their daughters went to college without problems?"

I find it funny how you discount my real experience as a Black man in favor of an article that cites not one single peer review study. Only the opinion of a Black woman who lived in a small, rural town in Canada.

I would be in favor of a Black person who relates in issue of discrimination that they have never experienced that nor their family. Why would I trash their experience?

My issue is that race hustlers who earn millions a year in the race grift are now a special protected class that ONLY their opinion counts. And you my homie have bought that. So, who are the REAL racists?

0 ( +6 / -6 )

Without universal healthcare or affordable health insurance, healthcare in the US will not improve. Healthcare except in the ER needs payment, which poor people do not have.

A male doctor can be an expert in the female body and health issues. A white dermatologist can also be an expert with black skin problems like sickle cell anemia.

The color of a doctor's skin or their sex does not make a better or worse doctor. That's down to education, training, and experience.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

I find it funny how you discount my real experience as a Black man in favor of an article that cites not one single peer review study.

Hearsay is not a counter argument against the professional of countless experts that have characterized the problem since a long time ago. At this point it is beyond credible that anybody thinks there is no inequalities in the way the US health system deals with different populations.

I asked how your personal opinion supposedly makes this well described problem less serious? You even quoted my example, yet did not addressed it nor explained how that comment would be positive or useful, that demonstrate you clearly understand it does not.

My issue is that race hustlers who earn millions a year in the race grift are now a special protected class that ONLY their opinion counts. And you my homie have bought that. So, who are the REAL racists?

So you refuse to address the argument that the problem is completely real and important no matter what you personally experienced, else it would make absolutely no sense to raise a completely irrelevant issue that do nothing to disprove the problem the article is talking about and the solution that is given for it.

The color of a doctor's skin or their sex does not make a better or worse doctor. That's down to education, training, and experience.

But it can make it better dealing with a situation of inequality as explained by the article, and make this doctor a better part of the solution for that problem. Unless you can demonstrate this is not the case and that anybody can do the same amount of good for segregated populations (and therefore the current problem in the US just an illusion) then it is still something well worth trying, after all the solution is not just to call people doctors based on their skin or sex, but to give them that education, training and experience.

-3 ( +3 / -6 )

Americans should stop projecting their issues (generating out of severe lack of education), to the entire world! It is racist to write Black but write white, it is racist to say: "I need a black doctor". It is racist and unfair to others to claim that only a black doctor can heal black people.

Can you imagine the opposite situation? What if I start saying I need white blue eyed doctors to feel safe? That would look like myself.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

When I'm lying on a bed in the ER dying I really don't care about the race or sex of the doctors trying to save me.

The US needs more black and Asian doctors but that in itself won't provide healthcare to the poor.

Japan is a completely different story than the US and people are Japanese and the doctors are Japanese. There is a lack of female doctors and that could be improved.

Only 2.45% of the population are non-Japanese.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

virusrex

Today 01:38 pm JST

You completely ignore the simple fact that proportionally poor whites, Hispanics, Asians and blacks have the exact same poor medical coverage and poor access to healthcare in the USA, it still has nothing to do with the colour of the skin of the doctor and everything to do with no health insurance.

The fact that in countries like France, the UK, Canada, it makes no difference the colour of your skin you are seen and treated by the same doctor in the same way as anyone else.

Only the USA and it infectious race baiting is making a skin colour thing.

In Canada my parents doctor is of Vietnamese ethnicity no one even cares, she is a geriatric specialist not an "Asian persons geriatric" specialist.

Two friends have sickle cell anemia one is of west African origin the other is Jewish and they are both treated by the same white Francophone Quebecois doctor neither asked or cared if he is black or Jewish!

This constant race junk is always from the USA and always ignores the bottom line that poverty no universal healthcare are the problem not race but those in power want this to be about race because it keeps the votes going to certain people.

That is what this is all about!

In Canada my family goes to the hospital, no one asks what colour the doctor is, they wait their turn and get the first doctor available, he could be Jewish, Francophone Quebecois, ethnic Vietnamese, ethnic Haitian (Black) , or south Asian ethnicity (India/Pakistan).

It isn't even a thought as to what colour as long as they see a competent doctor and in 99% of the cases that is what they get and everyone is fine until the USA groups show up trying to make trouble in Canada.

Why are these USA groups going to Canada to make trouble? Because the Canadian system of universal healthcare disproves the race ideas they are trying to push in the USA.

They hate the " look at Canada, why don't they have this race disparity? And the answer is " universal healthcare " and that destroye the race baiting narative!

1 ( +6 / -5 )

The article is not a peer-reviewed paper. I would be happy to see more blacks and Asians becoming doctors but how does that help with the healthcare of people who can't afford it?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

Americans should stop projecting their issues (generating out of severe lack of education), to the entire world!

How is an article about the specific situation in the US and how something can help "projecting" it to the entire world? what part of the article says this specific solution is necessary elsewhere?

Can you imagine the opposite situation? What if I start saying I need white blue eyed doctors to feel safe? That would look like myself.

That failed argument was already used and refuted before, unless you can demonstrate there is systematic segregation and much worse standards of care for white blue eyed patients your argument makes absolutely no sense.

When I'm lying on a bed in the ER dying I really don't care about the race or sex of the doctors trying to save me.

And that can be because you are not being subjected to systematic segregation and you can be relatively sure you are getting proper care, this is not something that many people in the US can share since it is clear some ethnicities are getting much worse medical care. For those people there is always the chance they would get better treatment if their group was better represented in the health care providers.

The US needs more black and Asian doctors but that in itself won't provide healthcare to the poor.

Again, a solution can be useful even if it does not solves every single problem in a situation, specially if it can make other necessary solutions easier to implement.

You completely ignore the simple fact that proportionally poor whites, Hispanics, Asians and blacks have the exact same poor medical coverage and poor access to healthcare in the USA, it still has nothing to do with the colour of the skin of the doctor and everything to do with no health insurance.

Calling something a fact do not make it so, what reference do you have for this claim?

It is well described that ethnicities are correlated with inequalities, (and that their access to other resources is limited). Pretending ethnicities have no role on why patients are poor or not, or the quality of the attention they recieve is not something you have proved, only claimed.

The fact that in countries like France, the UK, Canada, it makes no difference the colour of your skin you are seen and treated by the same doctor in the same way as anyone else.

And that again is an argument against your position, other countries do not have the inequality problem, so they do not need the solution for the inequality, the US have the problem, so the solution becomes necessary.

Only the USA and it infectious race baiting is making a skin colour thing.

Opposite relationship, the USA have the problem with medical attention, pretending it does not do not solve it, just prolongs it.

 I would be happy to see more blacks and Asians becoming doctors but how does that help with the healthcare of people who can't afford it?

Again, the solution is for the problem of inequalities of medical treatment attributable to ethnicity, saying that the solution for this problem do not solve other problems do not mean the solution is not necessary or effective. Specially if this can actually help those communities in general so less people are unable to afford care.

-4 ( +4 / -8 )

black skin problems like sickle cell anemia.

Glad you're not my doctor!

5 ( +7 / -2 )

wallace

Today 02:10 pm JST

There is a lack of female doctors and that could be improved.

Is there?

No I am not being anything but inquiring.

I honestly didn't know that and I find it interesting.

I wouldn't have thought so.

My heart attack all but one of my doctors were women, the head of the cardiac department is a woman, my own cardiologist is a woman, I have a autoimmune disease and skin diseases and am treated by the 2 department heads both women and every dermatologist I have ever been to in Japan was a woman.

I honestly thought "wow there are a lot of female doctors here" .

I am serious not trying to contradict you, I was genuinely surprised by what you pointed out and I checked and you are right.

I guess it just goes to show that sometimes things one experiences can be very different from what is actually going on elsewhere.

But in the end I agree with you skin colour or sex have no place in the choice of a doctor, without the great care by all the Japanese doctors that cared/treated you and I it it highly likely neither of us would be here right now!

A testament to universal healthcare!

0 ( +4 / -4 )

virusrex

how does having more non-white doctors, which I would support, help poor people get healthcare?

And that can be because you are not being subjected to systematic segregation and you can be relatively sure you are getting proper care, this is not something that many people in the US can share since it is clear some ethnicities are getting much worse medical care. For those people there is always the chance they would get better treatment if their group was better represented in the health care providers.

I have never heard of American patients in hospitals experiencing any form of segregation, which would be illegal anyway.

If I'm in an ER I cannot know if I'm getting the best medical care, I can only hope that I am.

One reason blacks experience lower-quality medical care is because of the quality of the hospitals where they live.

"As of 2021, nonelderly AIAN, Hispanic, NHOPI, and Black people continued to face coverage disparities (Figure 2). Nonelderly AIAN and Hispanic people had the highest uninsured rates at 21.2% and 19.0%, respectively as of 2021."

1 ( +4 / -3 )

But in the end I agree with you skin colour or sex have no place in the choice of a doctor, without the great care by all the Japanese doctors that cared/treated you and I it it highly likely neither of us would be here right now!

Should have no place, but according to the article (and many other sources) it helps addressing a problem happening in the US, saying that other countries do not have this problem do nothing to prove the US do not have it either, or that the solution proposed would be of no use.

Glad you're not my doctor!

Sickle cell anemia is a disease specially common for people of Sub-Saharan ancestry. It is not a problem of the black skin, but it can be validly be called a problem specially important for people with black skin since it is just another characteristic of the same ethnicity.

how does having more non-white doctors, which I would support, help poor people get healthcare?

Openly admitting you have not read the article you are contradicting is not exactly a winning argument.

I have never heard of American patients in hospitals experiencing any form of segregation, which would be illegal anyway.

So the "fact" you argued previously is just your personal experience? that is not enough to contradict the experts that clearly, unequivocally have said there is a huge problem of inequality in medical services related to ethnicity.

One reason blacks experience lower-quality medical care is because of the quality of the hospitals where they live.

And that is precisely the problem, getting worse medical attention do not only means treated differently from the same doctor, but having less access to (or access to lower quality) medical services for their whole communities. Something that can be solved with health care professionals coming precisely from those communities in the first place.

You are not proving there are no disparities based on ethnicity, you are just explaining ways for these disparities to happen.

-3 ( +4 / -7 )

virusrexToday  12:13 pm JST

As a Black man who has lived in Japan for 20 years, I do not care there are no doctors that "look like me", whatever that means

And how does your personal situation alleviates in any way the huge disparities the article is talking about?

Maybe take it as a sign to stop this racist nonsense and stop campaigning on his behalf?

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

Antiquesaving

In Japan, female doctors are underrepresented. In a recent JT article female medical students were rejected by a Tokyo university which eventually led to a court case.

In 2020, 340,000 doctors. In 2020, there was a total number of around 78,000 female doctors. 262,000 male doctors.

Female doctors earned less.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Maybe take it as a sign to stop this racist nonsense and stop campaigning on his behalf?

Getting more diversity in the medical field is a way to stop the racist nonsense that cost lives in the US, and making obvious how a claim of a personal experience do not refute the article is the opposite of campaigning on behalf of the person making that claim.

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

virusrex

Today 02:41 pm JST

Should have no place, but according to the article (and many other sources) it helps addressing a problem happening in the US, saying that other countries do not have this problem do nothing to prove the US do not have it either, or that the solution proposed would be of no use.

Oh yes I have been looking up all these reports and researches.

I found a common theme in all, the compare ", uninsured black and Hispanic" with under insured whites or whites in general.

Funny 99% of these articles, papers and studies avoid uninsured whites compared to uninsured blacks and Hispanics.

Why is that?

I have spent the day going over and over never once has any of these so-called experts compared uninsured with uninsured!

I found one from way back in the very early 2000 and it said uninsured of all races had the same problems but then tried covering their butts by adding black had a perceived feeling of racial bias.

A line repeated in nearly every one of the articles and so-called research papers I have read today "Black perceived racial bias" over and over the words "perception" and "perceived" which doesn't surprise me with articles like the above constantly tell blacks they are being discriminated against and telling them to look for it!

2 ( +5 / -3 )

wallace

Today 02:43 pm JST

Antiquesaving

> In Japan, female doctors are underrepresented. In a recent JT article female medical students were rejected by a Tokyo university which eventually led to a court case.

> In 2020, 340,000 doctors. In 2020, there was a total number of around 78,000 female doctors. 262,000 male doctors.

> Female doctors earned

As I said I wasn't contracting you.

I was surprised due to my own experience and yes I looked up what you pointed out and found out you were correct.

I was just saying how sometimes perception and the facts can be very di

3 ( +5 / -2 )

Hit post by mistake

Last word is " different"

1 ( +3 / -2 )

I find it funny how you discount my real experience as a Black man in favor of an article that cites not one single peer review study. Only the opinion of a Black woman who lived in a small, rural town in Canada.

Thank you for mentioning your experiences.

-6 ( +1 / -7 )

Oh yes I have been looking up all these reports and researches.

I found a common theme in all, the compare ", uninsured black and Hispanic" with under insured whites or whites in general.

And you think this situation has absolutely nothing to do with their ethnicity? that is beyond naïve. The disparity is right in front of you and you are trying to use it to prove there is no disparity, that makes no sense. Differences in insurance rates are ALSO part of the disparities betwween populations, segregation makes some groups more likely to afford it (and therefore getting better medical care). With this argument you are supporting the existence of inequalities in the US that require solutions,

A poster discounting your experience is basically representative of the exact type of negative experiences being discussed in this article.

Saying that a personal experience do not prove the article is false is not discounting that experience, this is easy to confirm the moment you don't even make an effort to argue how this would be the case.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

David BrentToday 02:28 pm JST

   black skin problems like sickle cell anemia.

> Glad you're not my doctor!

why?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

In cities like New York, they have hospitals with the highest quality of medical care and are available to all those who can afford it, or have sufficient health insurance. Rich blacks and Asians have no problem receiving the highest standards of medical treatment with stays in luxury medical suits.

This article is about the US and no other country. The lack of universal healthcare causes problems for poor people who can't even afford basic care.

In the UK I had doctors of all types, male and female. Black, white, and Asian.

I worked at the Whittington Hospital in London which is an NHS one with 360 beds. The medical treatment is good but there are waiting lists.

https://www.whittington.nhs.uk/

I also worked at a private hospital in Harley St.

 The London Clinic is the UK's largest independent private hospital in the heart of London's famous medical district.

The patients are very rich, many Middle East Arabs. Medical care is provided by the best doctors.

https://www.thelondonclinic.co.uk/

I have seen both sides of UK healthcare.

Only the rich can have treatment at the London Clinic. Everyone can have universal healthcare at the Whittington Hospital.

 The hospital is named after the famous Dick Whittington — a 14th-century adventurer who came to London accompanied by his cat, and who eventually became the city's Mayor three times.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

virusrex

Today 02:59 pm JST

And you think this situation has absolutely nothing to do with their ethnicity?

You are the one like those in the article that want it to be about skin colour.

Just like they want the lack of black doctors to be about skin colour.

But the simple fact that Asians have a disproportionate number of their group graduating as doctors tells us clearly skin colour and ethnicity has nothing to do with it.

Asians study more so get into medical school at higher rates than all other groups.

Funny that the top Ivy League schools under pressure from Black groups/activists put in blocks to stop Asians from attending Ivy League universities.

Some of the things used to downgrade Asian applicants were not participating in sports or social activities, no they weren't because unlike the rest black and white they were studying not playing basketball, football, etc .. not hanging around at poetry slams or beer parties and BBQs .

Studying instead of playing games and partying became a negative, which points to a problem if priorities for the non Asians wanting to get into medical school or ivy league universities in general.

But no let's all pretend it is Racism, why because that is easier than the truth, they don't have their priorities in order and don't try as hard.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

wallace

Today 03:08 pm JST

David BrentToday 02:28 pm JST

> black skin problems like sickle cell anemia.

> Glad you're not my doctor!

> why?

Even I understood you meat 2 different things black skin problems and sickle cell anemia but someone wants to look smart and he is trying to say you think sickle cell anemia is a skin disease!

We may have our differences but wgen you are right even if a small mistake in the sentence is apparent I understand that is just a mistake in the sentence.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

The U.S. uninsured rate in 2021 across race and Hispanic origin groups ranged from 5.7% for White, non-Hispanic people to 18.8% for those identifying as American Indian and Alaska Native, non-Hispanic. Hispanic or Latino people had among the highest uninsured rate in the nation at 17.7%.

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2022/health-insurance-by-race.html

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The disparities stretch from birth to death, often beginning before Black babies take their first breath, a recent Associated Press series showed. Over and over, patients said their concerns were brushed aside or ignored, in part because of unchecked bias and racism within the medical system and a lack of representative care.

So according to the article, because of racism more black doctors are needed to treat black patients and presumably the same for other races and nationalities.

Article needs to establish first that the black doctors don't treat the patients the same as the other doctors.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

You are the one like those in the article that want it to be about skin colour.

the data proves it is about ethnicity, just saying the data is wrong without any reference to prove it means you are conceding the point, even if you are not able to accept it.

But the simple fact that Asians have a disproportionate number of their group graduating as doctors tells us clearly skin colour and ethnicity has nothing to do with it.

That makes no sense. That some populations are segregated is not negated by other populations not sharing the same problem. To say that ethnicity has nothing to do with it you have to prove there is no difference between ethnic groups. It should be obvious by now, but not all populations face the same kind and degree of discrimination.

But no let's all pretend it is Racism

No need to pretend, the data clearly proves this is the case. Which is why people make an appeal to measures to reduce the disparity.

Rich blacks and Asians have no problem receiving the highest standards of medical treatment with stays in luxury medical suits.

As long as every ethnicity has the same chances to become rich this would not be a problem, it obviously is in the US.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

wallace

Today 03:40 pm JST

The U.S. uninsured rate in 2021 across race and Hispanic origin groups ranged from 5.7% for White, non-Hispanic people to 18.8% for those identifying as American Indian and Alaska Native, non-Hispanic. Hispanic or Latino people had among the highest uninsured rate in the nation at 17.7%.

But sometimes percentages are deceiving.

For example, the number of Blacks in poverty by percentage is far far greater than the percentage of whites.

But if we look at the actual number of people.

USA population is 331 million.

Roughly 59% are non Hispanic white.

Roughly 13.6% are black

19% of the black population is below the poverty level, that is roughly 8.5 million people.

8.2% if the non Hispanic white are below the poverty level that is roughly 16 million people.

So there are actually more poor whites in the USA and more without insurance or proper insurance than blacks.

The percentages may make it look like more blacks but in reality twice as many non Hispanic whites live in poverty than blacks.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

AntiquesavingToday 03:39 pm JST

   wallace

   Today 03:08 pm JST

   David BrentToday 02:28 pm JST

>     black skin problems like sickle cell anemia.

>     Glad you're not my doctor!

>     why?

> Even I understood you meat 2 different things black skin problems and sickle cell anemia but someone wants to look smart and he is trying to say you think sickle cell anemia is a skin disease!

> We may have our differences but wgen you are right even if a small mistake in the sentence is apparent I understand that is just a mistake in the sentence.

I mentioned sickle cell anemia because blacks have the highest rates.

"SCD affects approximately 100,000 Americans. SCD occurs among about 1 out of every 365 Black or African-American births. SCD occurs among about 1 out of every 16,300 Hispanic-American births. About 1 in 13 Black or African-American babies is born with sickle cell trait (SCT)."

Maybe a black dermatologist might have more understanding about that. SCA can be a serious skin disease.  Persistent and recurrent leg ulceration has long been considered the dermatological hallmark of those with sickle cell disease.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Antiquesaving

but the article is not about whites. I agree in poverty numbers there are more white poor than black poor. I am concerned about a system that does not cater to the health and well-being of all its citizens regardless of income, race, or color.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

My American parents retired and lived in Florida for more than 30 years. God's waiting room. They had good healthcare insurance but because of their age, they paid out a small fortune to have hip and knee replacement operations. Several other major operations. They were lucky to be able to pay their medical bills.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

The percentages may make it look like more blacks but in reality twice as many non Hispanic whites live in poverty than blacks.

That is not the importance of percentages, it is simply the only way to compare between populations.

If in a country there are 100 million of people A and only 100,000 of people B, but you find out every year 1000 of each are killed in risky work related accidents, would you say "its ok, the same number of people die for both groups"? or would you say "how come the rates of death are 1000 times more for people B"? The whole point is both populations are being affected differently, saying that one group is less numerous do not change that, nor should it make it less important.

Maybe a black dermatologist might have more understanding about that

Or more understanding about not only the disease but also what it means to the patient as a member of his community, it would not be the same to be the one person in the workplace that has to take frequent sick leaves because of the disease than to be just one of the many that suffer the same problem in that place, or in that family.

And it would be even more helpful if the doctor came from that same community, so he could be aware of things that are not register in the patients history (transportation problems, bad distribution of medicines, people being displaced from their homes by gentrification, etc. etc.)

This is what the article is trying to argue,

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

wallace

Today 04:01 pm JST

Antiquesaving

> but the article is not about whites. I agree in poverty numbers there are more white poor than black poor. I am concerned about a system that does not cater to the health and well-being of all its citizens regardless of income, race, or color

I agree 100% I am pointing out that despite all the claims by some that this problem is race, like you I see the problem as general inequality of the medical system that has no proper basic universal healthcare.

My own opinion is the entire USA system is flawed

4 ( +4 / -0 )

virusrex

  

   Maybe a black dermatologist might have more understanding about that

> Or more understanding about not only the disease but also what it means to the patient as a member of his community, it would not be the same to be the one person in the workplace that has to take frequent sick leaves because of the disease than to be just one of the many that suffer the same problem in that place, or in that family.

Except all races can get SCA. A white doctor could also be an expert.

And it would be even more helpful if the doctor came from that same community, so he could be aware of things that are not register in the patients history (transportation problems, bad distribution of medicines, people being displaced from their homes by gentrification, etc. etc.)

Does not work like that. Most people who want to be doctors try to get into the best university they can. When they graduate they try to get a job in the best hospitals with the highest pay.

Not many doctors want to work in hospitals in poor communities.

This is just a newspaper article.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

My own opinion is the entire USA system is flawed

Which means there are two things that can be done, one is to reduce the inequalities in the populations that are more exposed to discrimination, something fairly difficult and that takes some time but can be done.

The other thing would be to fix something that has been breaking down for literally decades and would need complete social change, many times more effort and money and the support of politicians that have made clear they will always prioritize their personal interests above the common good.

Solving partially a problem now (for a flexible definition of "now") so lives can be saved until the full solution can be implemented has value.

Except all races can get SCA. A white doctor could also be an expert.

But since the inequalities are evident in the US, this is obviously not a solution that works, the authors of this article argue for a solution that has much better chances of reducing the unbalance present, and the reasons quoted are part of why this would be the case.

Does not work like that

According to whom? the experts of the article make very strongly this point.

Most people who want to be doctors try to get into the best university they can. When they graduate they try to get a job in the best hospitals with the highest pay.

Which would prove the opposite of your point. Which doctor do you think would be more likely to go to a community with serious problems (with the same degree of ability), one that lived there and it is interested on improving the lives of their friends and family? or one that comes from a completely different place and will prioritize their personal benefit above people he has never met?

Not many doctors want to work in hospitals in poor communities.

But by helping people from those communities becoming doctors you get those few that would do it.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

The lack of healthcare for all US citizens has nothing to do with the race, color, or sex of its doctors.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

virusrex

Today 04:09 pm JST

The whole point is both populations are being affected differently,

No they are affected in the same way, to be more precise, whites in poverty in the USA are actually affected more because the majority live in rural communities with no major hospitals around for miles unlike blacks in poverty that live mostly in urban areas where under the law ERs must at least give minimal care even if the patient cannot pay.

In either case both cannot get medical care!

Or more understanding about not only the disease but also what it means to the patient as a member of his community,

So using your logic I should drop my immunologist because my autoimmune disease is a genetic disease very rare in Japan and primarily effects a certain group of white Europeans, so I should drop my Japanese doctor who is the department head of tip university hospital because she is Japanese and go looking for a European doctor.

Seriously you make no sense.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

The lack of healthcare for all US citizens has nothing to do with the race, color, or sex of its doctors

Yet it affects proportionally more of populations according to race, color and sex, and the article explains how this can be reduced by diversifying the race, color and sex of the doctors.

You have not offered any argument that disprove what the experts explain in the article. Nor the arguments that give a rationale for this to work.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

wallaceToday 04:27 pm JST

The lack of healthcare for all US citizens has nothing to do with the race, color, or sex of its doctors.

Over 90% have health insurance now, thank you very much. Even higher if you consider only the civilized states that expanded Medicaid.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

No they are affected in the same way, to

You made that claim before, but when asked for proof you offered none, that means this claim still hold no value.

The inequality has been described by experts and they present the data to support thar conclusion. Just saying they are wrong because you believe otherwise is not an argument.

So using your logic I should drop my immunologist because my autoimmune disease is a genetic disease very rare in Japan and primarily effects a certain group of white Europeans

If you find doctor that can demonstrate a better understanding of your disease and the situation you are? sure, that would greatly benefit you. Why would you not do it if it can be objectively a better option?

The measures of the article are about populations, not specific doctors, they are meant to increase the chances for patients to get professionals that understand them (and their disease better) something you have been unable to refute.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

We do ? Do we ?..or is it just a mental phobia for those preoccupied with the idea?

I’ve always been concerned with whether my doctor was competent and or not, and not whether they were black - white, male or female…or their place of birth.

Is this just more fodder to create discontent among the people where there is none?

3 ( +5 / -2 )

AntiquesavingToday 04:12 pm JST

My own opinion is the entire USA system is flawed

I don't think you are at all qualified to make that assessment. The US does better than Eastern Europe on health and that is with our terrible diet included.

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

I’ve always been concerned with whether my doctor was competent and or not, and not whether they were black - white, male or female…or their place of birth.

How does this relates to the clear inequality between ethnic groups in the US and how diversifying the medical professionals can help alleviate it according to the experts in the article?

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

50,000 Americans die every year from the lack of healthcare.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

The number of non-white doctors needs to increase but it will do nothing to reduce the numbers dying every year from the lack of healthcare.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

wallaceToday 05:18 pm JST

50,000 Americans die every year from the lack of healthcare.

There are 300 million people in the US, so this is what 0.02%? I'll wager even in saintly Japan there are those that can't afford the payments or navigate the system for various reasons.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

TaiwanIsNotChina

   wallaceToday 04:27 pm JST

>    The lack of healthcare for all US citizens has nothing to do with the race, color, or sex of its doctors.

> Over 90% have health insurance now, thank you very much. Even higher if you consider only the civilized states that expanded Medicaid.

So you are saying 10% or 320,000 citizens cannot afford basic healthcare.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

TaiwanIsNotChina

   wallaceToday 05:18 pm JST

>    50,000 Americans die every year from the lack of healthcare.

> There are 300 million people in the US, so this is what 0.02%? I'll wager even in saintly Japan there are those that can't afford the payments or navigate the system for various reasons.

In Japan, people receiving welfare do not pay for healthcare. You can be excused from payments if on low income.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

wallaceToday 05:27 pm JST

TaiwanIsNotChina

   wallaceToday 04:27 pm JST

   The lack of healthcare for all US citizens has nothing to do with the race, color, or sex of its doctors.

Over 90% have health insurance now, thank you very much. Even higher if you consider only the civilized states that expanded Medicaid.

So you are saying 10% or 320,000 citizens cannot afford basic healthcare.

Or they choose not to get insurance, despite the penalties. It's a private system. When you can explain to me why the UK, with it's public system, is #30 in life expectancy, then you will be qualified to launch invective at the US system.

https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

wallaceToday 05:30 pm JST

TaiwanIsNotChina

   wallaceToday 05:18 pm JST

   50,000 Americans die every year from the lack of healthcare.

There are 300 million people in the US, so this is what 0.02%? I'll wager even in saintly Japan there are those that can't afford the payments or navigate the system for various reasons.

In Japan, people receiving welfare do not pay for healthcare. You can be excused from payments if on low income.

And can the homeless take advantage of that?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Or they choose not to get insurance, despite the penalties. It's a private system. When you can explain to me why the UK, with it's public system, is #30 in life expectancy, then you will be qualified to launch invective at the US system.

Life expectancy in the US is 47th.

I have said nothing insulting about the US which has some of the highest standards of healthcare and medical science.

But we are not talking about that.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

wallaceToday 05:51 pm JST

Or they choose not to get insurance, despite the penalties. It's a private system. When you can explain to me why the UK, with it's public system, is #30 in life expectancy, then you will be qualified to launch invective at the US system.

Life expectancy in the US is 47th.

I have said nothing insulting about the US which has some of the highest standards of healthcare and medical science.

But we are not talking about that.

So you don't have an answer for why public systems don't do much better. Now you can return to the topic of race in healthcare.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

TaiwanisnotChina

can you respond to one comment at a time?

The life expectancy of the UK with its universal healthcare is 37th compared with the US at 47 and Japan comes in at No 3. Every European country is higher than the US.

But when it comes to life expectancy it's more than just healthcare. There is the diet, exercise, and much more. The US is a very obese country.

I did not write or publish the article and while I believe an increase in the number of non-white doctors is good it will do nothing to increase the healthcare of the poor.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

TaiwanisNotChina

so why post on a Japanese site?

No, every Eastern European country is below the US. As is Argentina.

So you have to find Eastern European countries to have a lower life expectancy than the US.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

I don't think we should be concerned with satisfying racists who feel the need to have a doctor of the same race.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

In 2020, 340,000 doctors. In 2020, there was a total number of around 78,000 female doctors. 262,000 male doctors.

That will take time to balance out. I find old docs are almost all men, but among the younger ones it's more balance.

Female doctors earned less.

I doubt they earn less only because they are female.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

As long as the docs are generous with pain killing meds then I don’t care what they look like

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

People need competent physicians in all disciplines, regardless of skin color or race.

Only 57% of college students accepted based on affirmative action graduate, compared to 73% of non-affirmative action students.

While it sounds like a noble idea, it only put more students in debt without a degree.

The obsession with race serves no one, particularly the patients.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

What people need to do is stop looking and defining people by their race. Sure there difference to being of different race, but it is those differences we are concerned about.

I'm glad you became a doctor but who you are is what defines you, not the color of your skin.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Another example of American exceptionalism.

Measures that clearly work in every other developed country in the world cannot even be tried in the US because…… just because.

Whether it’s race relations, universal health care, gun laws, sensible politics…..making things better is just Too Difficult, can’t possibly work.

Because.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Doctors in the US by race.

White 64%.

Asian 21%.

Hispanic 7%.

Black 6%.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

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