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Turn the page on COVID-19? Not so fast, say experts

36 Comments
By Paul RICARD

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"Right now for world safety we must vaccinate as many people on Earth as possible."

I hope that all the people, who are still refusing the vaccine will take this under consideration, and hopefully will change their minds.

But my opinion to one point did not change:

Nobody should be forced to take the vaccine.

Everybody should have the right to decide by him or herself to take the vaccine or not.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Everybody should have the right to decide by him or herself to take the vaccine or not.

In what counties is this not the case? And how do you force someone to take the vaccine - jail them? Hold them down and inject it?

-8 ( +5 / -13 )

Seems we need better vaccines: https://westernstandardonline.com/2021/09/exclusive-u-of-a-health-professor-says-the-vaccinated-are-more-likely-to-contract-delta-variant/

5 ( +10 / -5 )

If a mutation of the Delta variant made it more resistant to existing vaccines, it could reverse the improvement we are currently seeing," Flahault said.

Not only that. In addition to vaccine resistance, a new strain could potentially be more deadly and contagious as well. We just don't know.

Since a huge proportion of the population of poor countries is not vaccinated, it is likely that major spikes in infections could cause new variants to emerge, he added.

Given the high number of non vaccinated people in poor countries, THAT is what worries me the most.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

And how do you force someone to take the vaccine?

Like fire you out of your job if you are not vaccinated...like UA did.

That is also a kind of force.

Don't give access to shopping malls, restaurants...if you are not vaccinated.

That is also a kind of force.

And so on...

To force someone to do something, doesn't automatically means with violence.

There are many other ways to force someone to do something against his own will.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

I hope that all the people, who are still refusing the vaccine will take this under consideration, and hopefully will change their minds

Unforntunately people that take pride on acting irrationally as antivaxxers do (not just people that feel anxious about vaccines) this has no importance, as long as they can still do as they please millions of deaths are just small noise to ignore.

Nobody should be forced to take the vaccine.

And nobody is, people can choose how they cooperate for the common health efforts, they can vaccinate and reduce the risk for themselves and others or they can isolate, be tested repeatedly, abstain from doing some things, etc.

Its like smoking, nobody can be forced to stop, but if your workplace has a "zero smoke" policy then people can choose to refrain from smoking or look for another job where it is allowed. If your kid is exposed to third hand smoke from a teacher that smokes constantly and this is already known to increase the risk for serious problems for everybody exposed, do you still feel he should be allowed to do his job in this way?

Seems we need better vaccines:

Old news, Delta infects everybody more easily and can escape in a limited way the immunity produced in previous infections/vaccinations, if people more likely to develop serious symptoms and complications are the ones that have been vaccinated that obviously will mean they will be hospitalized at a higher rate.

Better vaccines are always needed, even for diseases already under control, but the available ones are still much better than not vaccinating.

-2 ( +9 / -11 )

Nobody should be forced to take the vaccine.

And nobody is

Hmmm...it is depend on how you evaluate “force”.

If your company tells you, you will get fired if you don’t take the vaccine (what UA did), then that is a kind of force for me.

In my company almost everyone is vaccinated, but there are also some who refused to take the vaccine.

But there was never any harassement or threat against them, that they will get fired, because they didn’t take the vaccine.

Of course what strangerland said is correct, nobody will get hold down and stick the needle in their arms.

But like I said...for me...there are many other ways to “force” someone into something which basically he or she doesn’t like to do.

In my opinion, we should respect each persons decision.

What is important is, to convince the people to take the vaccine with good and stable arguments. Of course that is not easy, because of too many nonsense going around the media.

But "forcing" someone into the vaccine is not the solution.

5 ( +11 / -6 )

How dare they open up! We must continue to inconvenience people to give them a reason to get vaccinated...

6 ( +12 / -6 )

But "forcing" someone into the vaccine is not the solution.

I gave you a very clear example of how this is nothing out of the ordinary, ignoring it does not change the fact that you yourself can be perfectly fine with "forcing" someone to do something to avoid increasing the risks for others. Having a different standard only for COVID vaccinations is not valid, so you either accept objective information can be used to restrict the actions of people or not, what you can't do is apply the rule only when you feel like it.

How dare they open up! We must continue to inconvenience people to give them a reason to get vaccinated...

Imaginary conspiracies have no value in the discussion, vaccines have been proved safe and effective in controlling the pandemic, so they are recommended independently of what other measures are in place, and the whole point of the article is that even if a local population is vaccinated the risk of variants make it likely the "inconveniences" would still be necessary, at least until the developing countries are much closer to herd immunity.

-8 ( +4 / -12 )

@Monty

There are a lot of things we "force" people to do to participate in society, in that manner.

You are "forced" to wear clothes to be in most public spaces. If you want to be a nudist, you can...but you will need to do so in very specific areas or from your own home. Businesses don't have to allow you entry either.

You are "forced" to be insured to drive. Have something against insurance? That's okay, but you can't drive then.

You are "forced" to not smoke in [most] public places. It is an activity that can be harmful to those around you, so needs to be done in designated places.

We engage in these kinds of activities everyday because of a basic social contract. No government, that I am aware of, is going door-to-door and vaccinating people at gunpoint. If somebody wants to remain unvaccinated they simply won't be able to participate in society. That is their choice, and it isn't being taken from them.

Now maybe you are an anarchist that disagrees with things like being forced to wear clothing, I don't know. If that is case your position makes sense and is consistent at least. Otherwise, we are already forced to do dozens of things everyday, you just don't think about it.

-6 ( +5 / -11 )

I gave you a very clear example of how this is nothing out of the ordinary

It is zero related if it is nothing out of the ordinary.

To force someone into something that he or she doesn't want to, is against humanity and free will!

So you are telling us, that it is OK to force the people into the vaccine? (My Goodness!)

I bet that you have never been in such a life situation where someone forced you into something that you basically don't want to do.

And I really hope for you, that you will never have that experience.

6 ( +12 / -6 )

Leftists in 1991: "Don't be such a conformist, man."

Leftists in 2021: "Conform or else!"

3 ( +12 / -9 )

Leftists in 2021: "Conform or else!"

Public health is a matter of public concern. Everyone is affected. "Conformity" has nothing to do with it.

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

To force someone into something that he or she doesn't want to, is against humanity and free will!

But how do you reconcile this with you supporting doing it for other things. You again are trying to ignore the example that proves it, specifically, if a teacher smoking habit can be demonstrated that it will increase the risk of serious health problem for your child, do you consider him saying "it is agains humanity and free will" a good enough defense for him to keep without change?

The point is that you completely support this "against humanity" measures in your daily life, but irrationally you choose to pretend this do not happen and oppose doing the same for vaccines.

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

@Addfwyn

BasicalIy I agree with you...but...wearing clothes is a basic human understanding since the cavemen lived on this planet. Even the cavemen understood that wearing clothes is a kind of social manner. They understood that if you run around naked it is a kind of shame or whatever you call that.

But also that took time for the people to understand it.

And these days, no company is telling you, “do not run around naked or you will be fired.”

Because that is a social manner which is already implemented in the society.

And here with the Covid vaccine, it is exactly the same.

We should convince the people to take the vaccine.

We should bring the people to understand that taking the Covid vaccine is a big help for the society.

But not with forcing or threaten them to take it. (By fire them out of their jobs or whatever)

Like I said in my first post, with good and stable arguments, which convince the people.

That’s all for today.

I have to go back to work.

4 ( +9 / -5 )

Last thing:

@Virusrex

The key point here is, that smoking, wearing clothes...are already many many years implemented in the society.

People understand the “impact” of those things.

But why do you think, do so many people hesitate or refuse to take the vaccine?

Simple and easy answer: because it is a NEW Vaccine.

This Vaccine is new and not yet implemented in the social society.

Therefore it is the task of your friends, the experts and scientists, to give good and convincible arguments to take the vaccine to the public.

And then hopefully, the people who still refuses to take the vaccine will understand and be convinced and will take the vaccine without any force or threat. (by losing their jobs)

1 ( +7 / -6 )

The key point here is, that smoking, wearing clothes...are already many many years implemented in the society.

So what? vaccination is also been implemented for centuries already, this argument works more about making vaccines mandatory.

But why do you think, do so many people hesitate or refuse to take the vaccine?

Irrational thinking and lack of capacity to judge the evidence, nevertheless this is irrelevant, it can be proved scientifically that smoking increase the risk for other people, it can be proved scientifically that not vaccinating increase the risk for the person refusing the vaccines and for others, according to this regulations can be enforced in both cases to make people stop increasing the risk for others. It has absolutely no importance if someone want to believe or not the science.

Therefore it is the task of your friends, the experts and scientists, to give good and convincible arguments to take the vaccine to the public.

Now you are talking about a completely different thing. According to this new (and invalid argument) you accept vaccines should be required, but now you want scientist to make people happier about this requirements.

Again, if the smoker is not "happy" with being forced to stop his habit would that make it ok for him to continue? obviously not, in the same way people not being happy about any vaccine do not make it ok for them to demand to be freed from requiring it.

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

I am no anti-vaxxer, although I will be waiting for a vaccine that actually works, prevents infection and transmission.

1 ( +9 / -8 )

I am no anti-vaxxer, although I will be waiting for a vaccine that actually works, prevents infection and transmission.

So you have not had any vaccine in your life? because infection and even transmission happen with every other vaccine, polio, measles, etc. The only difference is that for COVID we are still in the middle of the pandemic and there is no herd immunity in place, so infections and transmission have much more important consequences.

As long as you accept additional measures to protect other people you can wait as long as you want, what is not valid is what some people are trying to do, which is to be unvaccinated but still be treated as vaccinated.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

I try to sum it up with a little bit funny argument. Because the vaccines are still working so ineffective and incomplete, it is surely possible and of no real influence even for anti-vaxxers to get their vaccinations quickly. lol

-7 ( +0 / -7 )

I am no anti-vaxxer, although I will be waiting for a vaccine that actually works, prevents infection and transmission

0 ( +5 / -5 )

I am no anti-vaxxer, although I will be waiting for a vaccine that actually works, prevents infection and transmission

Amounts to much the same thing, but the risk remains, and over the last couple of months, people have been paying with their lives for doing exactly that. Others have recovered after being very sick indeed. Many of the survivors have colossal medical bills.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

I am no anti-vaxxer, although I will be waiting for a vaccine that actually works, prevents infection and transmission.

Yeah, nasal vaccines are on the way. They might be better suited to prevent infection and transmission. But in the meantime, just in case, make sure you keep your vitamin D and zinc high, and stock up on certain repurposed meds...

-3 ( +6 / -9 )

But in the meantime, just in case, make sure you keep your vitamin D and zinc high, and stock up on certain repurposed meds...

Or somefink.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

No! Turn the page! Enough is enough!

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@ Monty

wearing clothes is a basic human understanding since the cavemen lived on this planet. Even the cavemen understood that wearing clothes is a kind of social manner. They understood that if you run around naked it is a kind of shame or whatever you call that.

Did not know you were so old as remember cavemen days. And here I, along other people, was believing cloth were wore as a way to protect against environment or decoration to begin with.

I was even sure there was society barely wearing cloth or not so useful one in regard of not looking naked like by US standard.

https://bellatory.com/fashion-industry/History-of-Clothing-Why-We-Wear-Clothes

And these days, no company is telling you, “do not run around naked or you will be fired.”

Perhaps because the law is actually telling you that if you do you will be arrested ? And lot of companies have actual dresscode which are kind of incompatible with running around naked like wearing pants and collared shirt in plain color.

Most likely in area where people have the right to run around (half) naked, companies if they do not want workers to do it, will actually have it stated one way or another in the company rules, never happened to work in one thus will not know for sure.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

I find it pretty funny that some are shunning medicines produced, tested and approved for a specific purpose but are advocating 'repurposed medicines' that have not been produced, tested or approved for the purpose. That's tin foil hat stuff right there.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

The vaccine resistance has become so bad an 80 yo Illinois man was bitten by a bat, was told by doctors and local animal control the bat had rabies but the man refused the rabies vaccine. He died yesterday or the day before. Amazing. Dude knew he was bitten by a rabid animal and refused the vaccine for rabies.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

No! Turn the page! Enough is enough!

Wishful thinking. Unless everyone, every single person, is willing to take all the precautions known to science, meaning wear a face mask that covers the nose and mouth, keep two meters from everyone else (6 feet for the metrically unaware Americans) and get vaccinated and no exceptions, there is no turning the page on this pandemic. If you think you can just walk away from this thing and it will somehow magically go away you are fooling yourself. This pandemic will continue to spread, mutate and kill more people unless everyone takes ALL the necessary precautions and does so rigorously. It appears to me that sadly a lot more people are going to have to get sick and die before enough people take this pandemic seriously enough to do all the right things without some level of government leaning on them to do so. Everyone is in this together. You are not an island unto yourself. What you do or fail to do can hurt others. Be responsible, understand everyone has obligations to everyone else to end this pandemic.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

There was never a successful vaccine against influenza or coronaviruses. We need to promote antivirals not leaky vaccines.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

akadake

There was never a successful vaccine against influenza or coronaviruses. We need to promote antivirals not leaky vaccines.

The vaccinations have led to a dramatic fall in infections and deaths, and cases of long covid.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Say the "experts". LMAO.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

There was never a successful vaccine against influenza or coronaviruses. We need to promote antivirals not leaky vaccines.

There have been many successful vaccines agains influenza, and there was never a need for a vaccine for coronaviruses, the good thing about science is that it can do many things at once, even if people that don't understand how progress is done think you can only do one thing or another.

Also, many human diseases have been controlled even with "leaky" vaccines, the invalid anxiety about them is based on imagination and bad pseudoscience.

Say the "experts". LMAO.

Experts may be wrong sometimes, but never as much as the people that oppose what they say based on nothing but their personal opinions.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

There have been many successful vaccines agains influenza, and there was never a need for a vaccine for coronaviruses

False.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

False.

Just because you say so? sorry if reality prove your beliefs wrong, but being in denial is no argument against it.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

False.

Is that what they're telling you in your bubble? Oh my.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

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