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U.S. ban on gay conversion therapy gains ground

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Pressuring anyone to change their sexual orientation or to do anything else for that matter is just wrong.

However let's no go overboard by banning any sort of opinion given by a parent or other person (with parent's permission) to a child. That would be a violation of parental rights. There are valid reasons why a parent can (without anger or pressure) suggest to their children to consider a heterosexual lifestyle.

The threat of AIDS is one. Also having children is very fulfilling and will leave you with someone/s to care for you in your old age. -More likely in a heterosexual relationship.

Nothing wrong with merely suggesting the above, but if you read the proposed 'ban gay conversation therapy' laws' carefully, what constitutes 'therapy' is not clearly defined and thus even parental suggestions will be outlawed. This is the goal of some radical LGBTQ activists. (Besides forcing LGBTQ lifestyle promotional courses into schools without parental knowledge or consent)

And what about LGBTQ people who WANT to change thier orientation because they are afraid of getting AIDS or wanna have kids or whatever? They can't go to a counselor? They must stay gay?

The LGBTQ community has thankfully won it's right to freedom and non discrimination. Now let us parents be free to counsel and teach our (not yours) kids as we wish.

-11 ( +0 / -11 )

Why is this particular religion always so particular about how other people live their life?

6 ( +7 / -1 )

@IzureHikaru

Why is this particular religion always so particular about how other people live their life?

I have no problem with how others live their lives as long as they are not hurting me or anyone else. Also I agree that pressuring others to change sexual lifestyle is wrong.

But a problem made apparent in this article is not that people of 'this particular religion' are so particular of how other people live their life. The problem is a particular group of people (radical LGBTQ activitists) being particular about how parents discuss matters of sexuality with their own children and forcing their agenda into homes and schools without parental knowledge or consent.

The minute they try to pass a law that denies us the right to share a private opinion on sexuality with our kids is the minute we parents will fight for our basic human rights to freedom of thought and conscience. It is absolutely none of their business and they should stay out of our private lives just as they wish us to stay out of theirs. That is fair.

-7 ( +2 / -9 )

Why is this particular religion always so particular about how other people live their life?

Its not just this religion...its most religions.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

This sort of coercive 'therapy' is horrendous. Should be illegal.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Not only is it horrendous, it's moronic. Surely any sane person can see that some people are simply born gay. It's not a choice, nor a sickness, nor a mental illness.

5 ( +6 / -1 )

Concerned CitizenToday 07:56 am JST

Pressuring anyone to change their sexual orientation or to do anything else for that matter is just wrong.

However let's no go overboard by banning any sort of opinion given by a parent or other person (with parent's permission) to a child. That would be a violation of parental rights. There are valid reasons why a parent can (without anger or pressure) suggest to their children to consider a heterosexual lifestyle.

It is not a violation of parental rights to outlaw a type of therapy that 1) doesn't work; and 2) actively harms people.

There are valid reasons why a parent can (without anger or pressure) suggest to their children to consider a heterosexual lifestyle.The threat of AIDS is one. Also having children is very fulfilling and will leave you with someone/s to care for you in your old age. -More likely in a heterosexual relationship.

No, there are no valid reasons why a parent can suggest to their child to "consider a heterosexual lifestyle".

1) There is nothing inherently wrong with being gay, lesbian, or bisexual.

2) People cannot change their sexuality from gay to straight.

3) HIV/AIDS is not a "gay" disease. The population in which most new cases of HIV are being recorded are straight people. The population in which the lowest number of HIV cases have been reported are lesbians. That's right - there has been exactly one case where a lesbian passed on HIV to her partner. You can't ignore that just because it doesn't suit your narrative. When it comes to STIs and HIV, the safest sex is lesbian sex.

4) Not everyone needs to have children to be happy, and besides that, it is a moot point - GLBTQ people can have children if they want to.

Nothing wrong with merely suggesting the above, but if you read the proposed 'ban gay conversation therapy' laws' carefully, what constitutes 'therapy' is not clearly defined and thus even parental suggestions will be outlawed. This is the goal of some radical LGBTQ activists. (Besides forcing LGBTQ lifestyle promotional courses into schools without parental knowledge or consent)

The definition of gay conversion therapy is simple: any therapy that aims to change someone's sexuality from gay to straight.

Outlawing a therapy that 1) doesn't work; 2) actively harms people; and 3) promotes the idea that there is something wrong with being gay is not "radical". It is common sense.

Also, there is no such thing as a "LGBTQ lifestyle promotional course" in a school, anywhere. What you seem to be saying is that giving information to young people about the existence of LGBTQ is akin to "promotion". Now, that is a radical idea. It is also homophobic.

And what about LGBTQ people who WANT to change thier orientation because they are afraid of getting AIDS or wanna have kids or whatever? They can't go to a counselor? They must stay gay?

Again, HIV is not a gay disease. No matter how many times you say that, it is not going to become true.

And yes, they must "stay gay" because there is no way to change one's sexuality. It is from birth, inherent, and unchangeable. The very idea that a gay person needs to or should want to change their sexuality is homophobic.

In fact, your entire post reeks of homophobia.

The LGBTQ community has thankfully won it's right to freedom and non discrimination. Now let us parents be free to counsel and teach our (not yours) kids as we wish.

If you asked any GLBTQ person if they thought they had won their rights to freedom and non-discrimination, they would laugh at you. GLBTQ are still being discriminated against in more ways than can be counted. People lose their jobs and get kicked out of school for being gay, they get beaten up for being gay, they are turned away from shops for being gay, they are told they can't use the restroom of their choice, they can't join the military, and they are accused of having HIV and being child molesters, as well as being accused of "promoting" a "gay lifestyle" just for existing.

If we had won equality, those things would not still be happening on a regular basis. In some countries you can even be tortured and then executed for being gay. Ghana, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan... the list goes on and on where being GLBTQ puts your very life in danger. And you know what fuels this discrimination? Homophobia.

Homophobia, like the ideas you are trying to promote right here. I hope that makes you rethink.

This is not about restricting parental rights. There is no parental right to child abuse. And shaming a child for being gay and forcing them into unscientific, dangerous therapy that doesn't even work and may cause them irreparable mental anguish and even drive them to suicide is child abuse.

6 ( +7 / -1 )

The only ppl who need help/therapy are the ones who -in 2019- still believe in and advocate gay conversion therapy (blokes like mike pence for example). Complete nuttas.

Reminds me of Bruno when he interviews a pastor/gay converter then goes on a hunting trip. Vassup!?

3 ( +4 / -1 )

So people are born gay? My pastor said it was a disease caught from dirty toilet seats.

Now I’m confused.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

Let's face it, psych is totally incapable of doing anything for anybody. Whether it's gay conversion therapy or depression, using drugs, electric shock treatment or counseling. At best it offers sympathy.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

BertieWoosterToday  06:48 pm JST

Let's face it, psych is totally incapable of doing anything for anybody. Whether it's gay conversion therapy or depression, using drugs, electric shock treatment or counseling. At best it offers sympathy.

Are you referring to psychiatry and psychotherapy? You couldn't be more wrong.

If that guy who stabbed the cop and stole his gun had received treatment when he first went to police asking for help because he was hearing voices and seeing things, he could have been treated with drugs and therapy, and that young policeman wouldn't be lying in a coma with a knife would in his chest.

The vilification of psychiatry and psychotherapy is something those nutters in Scientology preach. While no medical discipline is perfect, modern 21st century psychiatry and psychotherapy definitely do a lot of good for a lot of people. And, BTW, gay conversion therapy is condemned by every legitimate psychiatric and psychotherapist organization. The two are mutually exclusive.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

"wound", not "would". Doh!

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Oh gosh, Garypen. Many of the mass shootings were committed by people who were undergoing mental "treatment" and in any case, even the psych/pharma industry doesn't reckon they could do very much about it:

About 60 percent of mass shooters have a history of serious mental disorders and two-thirds had never been seen by a mental health professional, said Grant Duwe, director of research and evaluation for the Minnesota Department of Corrections, who has spent years studying mass public shootings. While that suggests a greater need for treatment, the one-third who did get help “carried out an attack anyway,” he said. “So, even getting mental health care is not the panacea people make it out to be.”

For instance, James Holmes, who killed 12 people in an Aurora, Colo., theater in 2012, had been treated by a psychiatrist and spoken of homicidal thoughts. But he was not reported to authorities because he voiced no concrete plan.

From this article: https://khn.org/news/gun-control-vs-mental-health-care-debate-after-mass-shootings-obscures-murky-reality/

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

It is absurd that someone who wants to receive therapy for same sex attraction cannot receive it. This assertion that all methods of therapy are "ineffective" or "harmful" is completely false as there are many examples of people who once practiced homosexuality now living in a heterosexual relationship.

It is obvious that the LGBTQ community feels the need to gain acceptance by increasing the numbers of those in their camp, so of course they would adamantly oppose treatment that might decrease their numbers.

If these laws are passed to block "conversion" therapy, what stops similar legislation that would prevent people from receiving therapy for a myriad of emotional/psychological disorders?

And frankly, this name "conversion" therapy is misleading with its subtle reference to religion. It really should be called "reversion" therapy.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Shinichi HamadaToday 06:12 am JST

It is absurd that someone who wants to receive therapy for same sex attraction cannot receive it. This assertion that all methods of therapy are "ineffective" or "harmful" is completely false as there are many examples of people who once practiced homosexuality now living in a heterosexual relationship.

That therapy has been proven ineffective over and over again, and is rejected by every single reputable psychiatric organization, including the American Psychological Association: https://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/just-the-facts

It is pusedoscience cooked up by homophobic people in order to shame GLBTQ. It is harmful and has driven patients to suicide, because you cannot change your sexual orientation.

Nor should you be told that you should. There is nothing at all wrong with being GLBTQ.

It is obvious that the LGBTQ community feels the need to gain acceptance by increasing the numbers of those in their camp, so of course they would adamantly oppose treatment that might decrease their numbers.

Yes, we want acceptance. If you disagree, then you're nothing but a bigot.

Speaking of increasing our numbers, you can blame straight men and women for that - they keep having gay babies!

If these laws are passed to block "conversion" therapy, what stops similar legislation that would prevent people from receiving therapy for a myriad of emotional/psychological disorders?

And frankly, this name "conversion" therapy is misleading with its subtle reference to religion. It really should be called "reversion" therapy.

The slippery slope argument is a fallacy. The reason this therapy is banned is because it is pseudoscientific garbage. And frankly, your attitude is simply disgusting.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

It is absurd that someone who wants to receive therapy for same sex attraction cannot receive it. This assertion that all methods of therapy are "ineffective" or "harmful" is completely false as there are many examples of people who once practiced homosexuality now living in a heterosexual relationship.

Ok, sounds legit, but then:

That therapy has been proven ineffective over and over again, and is rejected by every single reputable psychiatric organization, including the American Psychological Association: https://www.apa.org/pi/lgbt/resources/just-the-facts

Hmm, every reputable psychiatric organization says otherwise.

Who should I believe? Some dude on the internet who gave a strong opinion, or organizations that study these kind of things?

Hmmm... which one has more credibility. Maybe someone else has an idea?

5 ( +5 / -0 )

Passing a law banning obviously harsh, abusive and coercive 'conversion therapy' against a person's will, if such a law is very clearly defined is fine with me as I totally agree that this is wrong.

But, such laws would have to exclude mere discussions about sexuality with parents and counselors (in a non abusive and coercive manner). There is nothing wrong with parents suggesting a preference for heterosexuality to their kids (in order to avoid AIDS, have children etc) but leaving it to the kids to decide and loving them just the same. This cannot be illegal and would be a gross violation of parental rights.

But banning ALL forms of so called 'conversion therapy' would deny the right to seek such therapy by people such as this man who was tired of being gay and wanted to become hetero and have children. What? He doesn't have the right to seek support and help to change his sexuality of his own free will?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-gay-man-who-wants-to-go-straight-304446.html

We must allow everyone to seek their own path either way, gay or straight and the freedom to switch back and forth if they so choose. There are many who have done just that.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

A person who was influenced by ancient books written by people who thought the earth was flat, mental illness was demonic possession, and homosexuality was punishable by death was trying to come to terms with his homosexuality.

Line the bird cage with that book but apologise to the bird first.

Grow out of this nonsense.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@girl_in_tokyo

Also, there is no such thing as a "LGBTQ lifestyle promotional course" in a school, anywhere.

There are quite a few, and millions of parents were either not informed about the contents or not aware of the existence of the programs. There are strong movements to stop these programs, not because they have anything against LGBTQ people in general but simply because they prefer to teach heterosexuality to their children for the obvious benefits, (greater possibilities of having children, safety from HIV/AIDS, their religious beliefs etc. These parents must be free to give the education they prefer to their children. Please see:

https://activistmommy.com/bill-in-california-would-force-teachers-to-promote-lgbt-ideology-in-spite-of-personal-beliefs/

http://youreteachingourchildrenwhat.org/

Again, HIV is not a gay disease.

According to the World Health Organization and gay advocacy groups own statistics, gay male anal sex is the most common route of infection (approx 66% of cases). It is estimated that 1/7 of gay/bisexual men have HIV/AIDS. These scientific/medical facts alone are good reasons to suggest to young guys that heterosexual sex is safer and therefore preferable for their health's sake. Laws preventing parents from suggesting such to their children would be a harmful and a violation of rights.

I have no ill will towards the LGBTQ community and treat those I know/meet with respect like anyone else. What I ask is the freedom for us parents to raise the children we gave birth to in the way we choose according to our preferences and concerns for their health and future, and for LGBTQ people who freely wish to change their sexual orientation to have the freedom to seek counsel and support as they choose. It should be a free world for all.

I think that is fair.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

...they prefer to teach heterosexuality to their children for the obvious benefits...

The only "benefits" are artificially created by the same people who scream about the "gay agenda" being forced on them, when the same "benefits" are simply requested for LGBTQ+.

(FYI, being able to have children is not a benefit for everybody. Even so, LGBTQ+ can still biologically reproduce through other means than simple heterosexual intercourse. They can also adopt. )

1 ( +1 / -0 )

@garypen

My point was and remains is that it is a free world and every parent (or teacher with parents approval) can discuss sexuality and suggest preferred or safer sexual lifestyles with children as they please. The government should stay out of it. And LGBTQ activists should not force thier ideology on those who prefer heterosexual education or who wish to voluntarily switch from gay to straight.

I also agree that any such discussion or suggestions re sexuality should NOT include any form of coercive behavior.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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