WHO: China's COVID plan is 'unsustainable' due to Omicron

It is difficult for the WHO (that has close to zero political power) to be more clear about this, China is still using inefficient methods that require a huge sacrifice of extra resources and lives to control COVID and the worst thing is that this is not even necessary. Other countries have lower death rates (adjusted to reporting only deaths without other diseases as China choose to report) without having to disrupt public health services, destroy the local economy and trample with the human rights of the sites of the outbreaks.

As Tedros said "We know the virus better and we have better tools", dealing with things as if it was 2020 has no justification.

That guy was wrong at the pandemic’s beginning when downplaying and underestimating the viruses and that logically implies he’s probably also wrong now too when criticizing the only option and strategy that makes sense. Again for everyone to make notes, only ZeroCovid is good Covid!

That guy was wrong at the pandemic’s beginning when downplaying and underestimating the viruses and that logically implies he’s probably also wrong now too when criticizing the only option and strategy that makes sense. Again for everyone to make notes, only ZeroCovid is good Covid!

No "downplaying", just understandable lack of information to make better decisions thanks to the lack of cooperation from the only country (China) that could have provided that information but instead hid it trying to evade the responsibility for the mismanagement done.

Also, zero covid is not the only option and it makes much less sense than what has been adopted in other countries that have much better results (like New Zealand). If you can reduce the death rates as much or even more than China without having to let people die from other dieases by messing with the health services what it makes no sense is persisting in the strategy that requires unnecessary sacrifice of human lives (and economic resources).

Again for everyone to make notes, only ZeroCovid is good Covid!

I guess everyone agree with that,.. but impossible to reach.

MontyToday  10:05 am JST

Again for everyone to make notes, only ZeroCovid is good Covid!

I guess everyone agree with that,.. but impossible to reach.

It is not impossible to reach. We must all do what we need to do, which is get vaxxed and be careful about where you go and who you're around with. And how distant.

America hasn't been very good at this, first it was that lying denying fascist traitor - now it's local governments and individuals being irresponsible and more media loudmouths telling fibs. Joe put the flags at half-staff this week because America leads the world in CoVid deaths - one million. It's very sad.

But China should've known better than to host those Winter Olympic Games this year. At least Japan delayed theirs by a year. But no no no no no , the CCP had to host the Games and promote their pretense about that Great Communist Utopia they have to the world, courtesy of the Foul Murderous Mao.

Now the virus on the upswing again there and whole cities populated by millions are in lockdown. I ain't surprised.

The head of the World Health Organization says China’s extreme approach to containing the coronavirus is unsustainable because of the highly infectious nature of the Omicron variant, but that it’s up to every country to decide what policy to pursue.

What is the alternative to 3 consecutive days with no new cases in a giant Chinese city? Use New Zealand's strategy. which recently had a daily count of 9570 new cases (with about 1/8th the population as Shanghai?

*Shanghai achieved its long-awaited milestone of three consecutive days with no new COVID-19 cases outside quarantine zones*

New Zealand's total deaths linked to Covid has now surpassed 1000 since the pandemic began.

*There are 9570 new community cases of Covid-19 in New Zealand and a further 32 deaths related to the virus have been reported.*

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/shanghai-achieves-zero-covid-status-normal-life-is-weeks-away-2022-05-17/

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/health/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-9570-new-covid-cases-32-deaths-425-in-hospital/

China is still using inefficient methods that require a huge sacrifice of extra resources and lives to control COVID and the worst thing is that this is not even necessary. 

Fact deniers unfortunately also are anti-vaxxers and promote other unhealthy conspiracy theories.

What is the alternative to 3 consecutive days with no new cases in a giant Chinese city? Use New Zealand's strategy. which recently had a daily count of 9570 new cases (with about 1/8th the population as Shanghai?

Yes, because infection cases are not a burden for the health services, meanwhile the zero covid policy is, and a very important one, if less people die thanks to tolerating infections while controlling the disease that is by all means a much better alternative.

Fact deniers unfortunately also are anti-vaxxers and promote other unhealthy conspiracy theories.

Yes, and as the article clearly exposes this includes the Goverment of China, that instead of developing or purchasing effective vaccines that could lead to their vulnerable population getting protected it chooses to pretend it can stop completely infections without destroying their rights, access to health services and way to earn a living.

Time for authoritarian China to do what an authoritarian government do best, force the vulnerables to vaccinate.

I'm told it's all the untrusting, unvaccinated elderley that's causing this dilemma. China released findings from a study last week, over a million deaths, 90% over 70s.

Round them up and vaccinate them, China is not free country. Else, the rest suffer.

Seems to me that the Chinese leadership is setting policy based on their beliefs, rather than on what the science says.

Going with a zero covid policy when the Covid strains were much less transmissible was doable, but now that the dominant strains are extremely contagious, a zero covid policy is not, as a practical matter, achievable.

Since when has China listened to WHO?

Time for authoritarian China to do what an authoritarian government do best, force the vulnerables to vaccinate.

Many cities already did. The Central Committee set a "goal" that 80% of the population should be vaccinated. To many local party cadre that meant if they didn't get that proportion of the people they governed vaccinated their promotability was nil and they would likely be fired. The end result was forced vaccinations in many big Chinese cities with people losing jobs and/or being evicted from their homes if they refused.

“We understand why the initial response of China was to try and suppress infections to the maximum level (but) that strategy is not sustainable and other elements of the strategic response needs to be amplified,”

What strategy do they suggest? The one the US employed, which resulted in over 1 million deaths? The ones Australia and New Zealand followed. which resulted in two of the highest infection and death rates in the world? Maybe China's approach, which resulted in the lowest infection and related death rate in the world is not so bad for people who want to avoid becoming infected and dying from the disease.

Yes, because infection cases are not a burden for the health services, meanwhile the zero covid policy is, and a very important one, if less people die thanks to tolerating infections while controlling the disease that is by all means a much better alternative.

What nonsense, and medical experts would laugh at this. The more people infected means the more people will die. Anyone reading the news knows this. New Zealand for example, has one of the highest infection rates and as a result their covid related deaths are skyrocketing.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/health/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-9570-new-covid-cases-32-deaths-425-in-hospital/

Yes, and as the article clearly exposes this includes the Goverment of China, that instead of developing or purchasing effective vaccines that could lead to their vulnerable population getting protected it chooses to pretend it can stop completely infections without destroying their rights, access to health services and way to earn a living.

What a wild conjecture. without any factual basis. In other news, Shanghai had zero infections in the community, which means they will have zero deaths from those zero infections.

In other news, Shanghai had zero infections in the community, which means they will have zero deaths from those zero infections.

Self serving falsehoods from party cadre who want to look good. Keep in mind the top CCP official in Shanghai is a very close friend of Xi Jinping. He wants to make himself and Xi look good for the upcoming Party Congress in October. Their great foe within the party, and who has their knives out to unseat Xi, is the so-called "Shanghai faction of the party led by Jiang Zemen. They tried to oust Xi from the party before the 2012 Party Congress to prevent him from ascending to General Secretary of the CCP and President of PRC in a failed internal coup that led to the imprisonment of Bo Xilai, Zhou Yongkong and others who were purged in the aftermath. Xi Jinping has gleefully purged his intra-party enemies in the name of fighting "corruption" and especially those from the Shanghai Faction who are his most powerful foes. His other two major enemy blocs are the Communist Youth League faction and the PLA, who also tried to oust him in a failed 2017 coup. Having one of his own as Shanghai party boss and looking good is essential if Xi wants to stay in power. Any "statistics" they publicize have to be looked at in this context. They are never truthful. Our family has some first hand experience with them.

Self serving falsehoods from party cadre who want to look good. Keep in mind the top CCP official in Shanghai is a very close friend of Xi Jinping. He wants to make himself and Xi look good for the upcoming Party Congress in October. 

So China first reports they are having a covid problem, and then they report they have resolved it.

But those are self-serving falsehoods.

So the first report is true about there being a problem? If so, why? But if their first report is not true, why would they lie about there being a problem?

Sorry--this conspiracy theory doesn't make sense.

What strategy do they suggest? The one the US employed, which resulted in over 1 million deaths? The ones Australia and New Zealand followed. which resulted in two of the highest infection and death rates in the world?

New zealand and Australia would be a better option, this is because contrary to what you believe (and always fail to prove) they do not have "the highest death rates in the world", New Zealand even have lower rates than China once the way of reporting is made the same.

What nonsense, and medical experts would laugh at this

No they don't, which is why you have always failed to prove it either, that is just your personal belief. Your argument is easily disproved the moment countries that have higher infection rates have lower death rates compared with China, betting for better health services and vaccination instead of an unsustainable zero covid strategy allows that, the WHO is the one saying it, just you saying they must be wrong is not an argument to prove it,

What a wild conjecture. without any factual basis. 

No it is not, it is a well proved fact with not even half of the people most vulnerable being fully vaccinated and boosted, and using a vaccine well known to be less effective than the best avaialable ones. I know this completely refutes your point, but even if you don't want to believe it that does not make it less true.

Why would you think the WHO specifically calls for the use of vaccines in China to replace the zero covid policy?

So China first reports they are having a covid problem, and then they report they have resolved it.

But those are self-serving falsehoods.

So the first report is true about there being a problem? If so, why? But if their first report is not true, why would they lie about there being a problem?

China never reported the true number of infections of deaths. Early in the pandemic tens of thousands of cases went unreported and countless people died at home during the early lockdowns without the cause of their deaths ever being determined. For those first critical weeks China would not even admit there was a pandemic. Then after huge lockdowns they claimed there were not cases and that too was a lie. My family lives here and knows the truth , not the lies the party cadre spew. China has never admitted to their Covid deaths. If an individual with a pre-existing condition gets Covid and dies, their death is attributed to whatever other problems the person had and not to Covid. It's a lie. And claims today that suddenly there isn't a single new case of Covid 19 in Shanghai is also a lie and people in Shanghai don't believe it for a second. Stop being such a chump for the lies of party cadre.

China never reported the true number of infections of deaths.

And the official source for this allegation?

My family lives here and knows the truth , not the lies the party cadre spew.

Oh, ok, there's the "official" source.

Stop being such a chump for the lies of party cadre.

Please re-read the above for an early morning dose of hypocrisy.

WHO emergencies chief Dr Michael Ryan said the agency recognized that China had faced a difficult situation with COVID-19 recently and commended authorities for keeping the number of deaths to a very low level.

Well, if the WHO is commending Chinese authorities, that is quite a turnaround from their stance of two years ago.

At least they finally acknowledge the success of China's zero covid policy. And remember, zero covid is the best covid.

New zealand and Australia would be a better option, this is because contrary to what you believe (and always fail to prove) they do not have "the highest death rates in the world", New Zealand even have lower rates than China once the way of reporting is made the same.

9000+ new infections in New Zealand the other day; 0 in Shanghai.

Seems like the facts contradict your version of "reality".

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/health/covid-19-omicron-outbreak-9570-new-covid-cases-32-deaths-425-in-hospital/

No they don't, which is why you have always failed to prove it either, that is just your personal belief. Your argument is easily disproved the moment countries that have higher infection rates have lower death rates compared with China, betting for better health services and vaccination instead of an unsustainable zero covid strategy allows that, the WHO is the one saying it, just you saying they must be wrong is not an argument to prove it,

Hmmm, USA with over 1 million deaths, China with under 10,000. Kind of an easy set of numbers to compare for non-medical professionals. So, you are wrong again.

No it is not, it is a well proved fact with not even half of the people most vulnerable being fully vaccinated and boosted, and using a vaccine well known to be less effective than the best avaialable ones. I know this completely refutes your point, but even if you don't want to believe it that does not make it less true. 

A poorly written, confusingly circular argument nonetheless, and the statistical data for your "claim"?

Why would you think the WHO specifically calls for the use of vaccines in China to replace the zero covid policy?

The WHO is responsible for making government decisions?

Well, if the WHO is commending Chinese authorities, that is quite a turnaround from their stance of two years ago.

What stance? the WHO has not antagonized any country since more than 10 years ago, there would be no turnabout by being "diplomatic" while clearly saying their methods are wrong.

9000+ new infections in New Zealand the other day; 0 in Shanghai.

New Zealand still has a lower death rate than China, this is because instead of uselessly trying to prevent every infection they focus on preventing hospitalizations and deaths, with the added bonus that they do not have to let people die because of lack of access to medical services as in Shanghai.

Hmmm, USA with over 1 million deaths, China with under 10,000

China do not have under 10,000 deaths, even Hong Kong alone have close to that (and represented one of the highest death rates in the world, all under the zero covid policy). And again, reporting only a fraction of the deaths is very different from having them. The most important part is that other countries have done better than China without having to destroy the economy, disrupt health services and trample human rights, so the only rational thing the CCP could do is to follow that example, but instead it chooses the option that lets them oppress more easily the people.

A poorly written, confusingly circular argument nonetheless, and the statistical data for your "claim"?

You keep using that word "statistical", it does not means what you think it means, any evidence that the elderly are poorly vaccinated is enough, for example the testimony of the lead epidemiologist of the Chinese national covid response team openly acceptin it. There is nothing circular to providing an argument that refutes yours, its veracity do not depend on itself.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/05/06/china-coronavirus-elderly-unvaccinated-lockdown/

The WHO is responsible for making government decisions?

Is responsible for making recommendations based on science, your own quoted text clearly says "calls for..." not "makes the decision to..."

So why did you not answer the question? why did you think the WHO specifically calls for the use of vaccines in China to replace the zero covid policy?

“We understand why the initial response of China was to try and suppress infections to the maximum level (but) that strategy is not sustainable and other elements of the strategic response needs to be amplified,”

Meanwhile, the WHO, of which many of its recommendations have been proven scientifically wrong, does not have any suggestions as to what is sustainable. Is the US approach sustainable? With over 1 million covid deaths? What is the definition of sustainable according to this "institution"?

What stance? the WHO has not antagonized any country since more than 10 years ago, there would be no turnabout by being "diplomatic" while clearly saying their methods are wrong.

Neither the article nor anyone's comments mentions the word "antagonized". Not sure to what you are referring. Sounds like you are trying to push a point that you want to discuss, yet which is beyond the scope of this discussion.

New Zealand still has a lower death rate than China, this is because instead of uselessly trying to prevent every infection they focus on preventing hospitalizations and deaths, with the added bonus that they do not have to let people die because of lack of access to medical services as in Shanghai.

Wrong, as statistics show.

China do not have under 10,000 deaths,

Wrong, as statistics show.

There is nothing circular to providing an argument that refutes yours, its veracity do not depend on itself.

Your argument breaks down to, You're wrong, I'm right.

Is responsible for making recommendations based on science, your own quoted text clearly says "calls for..." not "makes the decision to..."

So the WHO does not have any authority to direct any government. Glad you finally understood that.

Meanwhile, the WHO, of which many of its recommendations have been proven scientifically wrong, does not have any suggestions as to what is sustainable.

What recommendations have been proved scientifically wrong?

Neither the article nor anyone's comments mentions the word "antagonized". 

If your only defense against an argument that disproves your personal opinion is if one specific word is being used or not you are already accepting the argument is valid and proves you mistaken. The WHO has had no chance of attitude in respect with China.

Sounds like you are trying to push a point that you want to discuss, yet which is beyond the scope of this discussion.

Since this is a direct response to your comment you are saying that your own comment is off topic.

Wrong, as statistics show.

Hong Kong is in China, it has over 9000 deaths by itself, this puts the total in China well over 10,000. Your own sources have proved this.

Your argument breaks down to, You're wrong, I'm right.

No, because I gave a specific reason why the argument applies, it would be "you are wrong because X", so unless you disprove X the argument applies.

So the WHO does not have any authority to direct any government. Glad you finally understood that.

Congratulations on refuting something only you have said, now, why did you not answer the question again?

Why did you think the WHO specifically calls for the use of vaccines in China to replace the zero covid policy?