health

Why experts think we'll need to vaccinate children against COVID

21 Comments
By Issam Ahmed and Lucie Aubourg

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21 Comments
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All this will make some people extremely rich and powerful as we know not what is in the vaccine

-2 ( +8 / -10 )

Leave the kids alone, they're not really affected by this pathetic cousin of the common cold are they

-6 ( +7 / -13 )

All this will make some people extremely rich and powerful as we know not what is in the vaccine

Everybody with a couple of minutes of time know exactly what is in the vaccine. Willingly avoiding knowledge is not the same as something being generally unknown.

Leave the kids alone, they're not really affected by this pathetic cousin of the common cold are they*

Close to 3 million deaths prove you wrong, if every health care professional says this pandemic is a very dangerous disease that we should be very careful of, an opinion saying the contrary without any data to support it can be safely discarded.

Also, if the vaccine is as safe for children as it is for adults there is no real downside from vaccinating children, and it would help preventing the rare but very dangerous complications that do happen to children.

Do you know what is extremely rare even when compared with serious complications of COVID in children? serious complications attributable to the vaccine. Unless you can show more than 2600 cases of serious complications and 33 deaths produced by the vaccine (not in spite of it, or by other causes in vaccinated people) the justification for vaccination is clear, and that is even taking in account only one of the possible complications that happens to children.

Too many people are being deceived by antivaxxer propaganda into having unjustified anxiety against the vaccines, too many try to mislead and decieve others with false arguments and incomplete information (Showing VAERS data on problems on vaccinated people, but hiding that unvaccinated people have the same problems at the same rates). If trials on children have the same results then there is no problem with vaccinating them and reduce their risk.

3 ( +9 / -6 )

You can put everything bad on the viruses, but surely not that they are disrupting the children’s education. When I was a child and longer in hospital, I was even brought with my bed and infusion bottle into a hospital’s school room for daily continuation of lessons. Alone, or sometimes with other young patients. What exactly is it, that hinders you morons now , 45 years later, to teach children in any COVID condition, healthy or hospitalized?

-2 ( +4 / -6 )

This sickens me! ... more than the virus ever would.

I don't think anyone should get the vaccine, but if an adult chooses to get vaccinated it's their choice. But leave the kids alone, they are hardly affected by this virus. Who knows what these vaccines will do to their health in general and to their immune system.

In Japan, there are no covid deaths below 20 years of age, and only 3 covid deaths in their 20's.

-7 ( +4 / -11 )

I don't think anyone should get the vaccine,

That is the problem with systematically trying to ignore science when it says something you don't like. This attitude can make people begin to believe that their personal preferences somehow should be given the same importance than well curated data that demonstrate what is real and not.

In this case the viral infection has already demonstrated relationship with very important complications that will last for long time, even for life (not to mention death) while the vaccines have been demonstrated as safe and effective in the population they are used in, nevertheless some people willingly choose to ignore the many dangers of the infection and to consider as corroborated some imaginary negative effects of the vaccine that nobody has even found yet, and that have no mechanism to be produced.

Scientifically speaking the vaccine has been proved safer than the infection in adults, there is no realistic reason to expect this will not be repeated with children, so if this happens whatever a person thinks about it is irrelevant, using the vaccine would still mean lowering the risk for them.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

All this will make some people extremely rich and powerful as we know not what is in the vaccine

You know it and now they are going after children in the name of "herd immunity" when they ARE NOT spreaders and asymptomatic (pharma will differ in their opinion with single outliers). Oh and Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine is set to be one of the most lucrative drugs in the world.

-5 ( +4 / -9 )

What on earth is going on here? This virus is essentially harmless to just about everyone under 60, and to most people under 80. Yet there's a rush to vaccinate the whole planet young as well as old. Something really stinks. This not a matter of how safe the vaccines are or aren't - it's fundamentally a question of whether people should be coerced into getting them when there is almost zero risk of them becoming ill from the virus itself. That's not to say people who want a vaccine shouldn't get one; it must be a matter of individual choice. No room to argue.

There's greater justification to vaccinate kids for the flu, since they're far more likely to get sick from that than COVID-19. And we don't force flu jabs, either directly through law or by social pressure exerted through the media, so why should this be the case for SARS-CoV-2?

I think this is less a matter of protecting people from a virus and more like a psychological experiment to see how much people will put up with in order to retain some of the rights we thought were inalienable (at least in ostensibly democratic countries). Want to travel? Need a vaccine passport. Want a job? Need a vaccine passport. Fancy a drink at the pub? Better whip out your phone with... you guessed it - a vaccine passport. To live something resembling a normal life we'll have to give up more liberties for a false sense of safety. Ben Franklin was really onto something when he uttered those immortal lines some 200 years ago.

Back a year ago the Orwellian phrase "new normal" started doing the rounds in the nightly news as a form of conditioning to get people used to the idea that this would be here for the long haul. Think the rolling lockdowns in the UK and snap ones in Australia and NZ when the faintest whiff of infection pops up.

The only way to stop this madness is to refuse to bend to the coercion, politely but with determination. And ignore the sophists who try to gaslight us into conformance with fear and appeals to authority based on spurious or intentionally distorted science.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

**Leave the kids alone, they're not really affected by this pathetic cousin of the common cold are they***

Close to 3 million deaths prove you wrong, if every health care professional says this pandemic is a very dangerous disease that we should be very careful of, an opinion saying the contrary without any data to support it can be safely discarded.

There are no where close to 3 million deaths among kids! Where do you get your numbers?

And how can you say that every health care professional says this pandemic is a very dangerous disease for kids? It clearly is not!

But we do have a number of health care professionals warning us of the effects of these vaccines, that they can adversely affect our overall health (and potentially kill us) and seriously affect our innate immune system.

I am not so young, but I still trust my immune system to handle this virus and I do everything I can to keep it working well. The last thing I would do is throw a monkey wrench into my immune system, and I find it sad that this will be done to kids, who have so little to worry about from this virus.

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

There are no where close to 3 million deaths among kids! Where do you get your numbers?

The deaths would not need to be on children to demonstrate that a disease is much more serious than the common cold.

Every professional association of health care workers do say that this is not just a "common cold", obviously there could always be some individuals with lousy preparation, hidden interests or failing intellectual abilities that can make them go against a very clear scientific consensus, but at the level of organizations this is not something that can be found so easily.

Of course if you can provide references to some international health care organizations that say there is nothing to fear from COVID-19 you could provide them here.

If it can be proved scientifically that the vaccine lowers the risk of health problems and death compared with the natural infection that still means it is the logical option to do it, you can decide the opposite, but your freedom to do it do not make it a rational choice.

Do you know what throws a wrench in to your immune system? a million times more proteins produced from the SARS-CoV-2 virus during the natural infection, including a dozen of which are produced precisely with that purpose, to dysregulate and disrupt your immune system to allow the virus to survive for longer time, none of the vaccines approved contains any of those wrench-throwing proteins.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Do you know what throws a wrench in to your immune system? a million times more proteins produced from the SARS-CoV-2 virus during the natural infection, including a dozen of which are produced precisely with that purpose, to dysregulate and disrupt your immune system to allow the virus to survive for longer time, none of the vaccines approved contains any of those wrench-throwing proteins.

You try to make this virus sound as bad as the bubonic plague. If it's such a threat, why have so few healthy people succumbed to it even when exposed and why are there so many asymptomatic carriers? Most victims already had other comorbidities, and most victims have been elderly. So what's your justification for vaccinating kids instead of just the far more susceptible elderly population and those with serious comorbidities who could still safely handle a vaccine?

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

As mentioned before, children do spread the disease and that is well documented scientifically, not accepting this do not make it less true, it only makes the person be in denial of very clear evidence.

omething really stinks. This not a matter of how safe the vaccines are or aren't - it's fundamentally a question of whether people should be coerced into getting them when there is almost zero risk of them becoming ill from the virus itself.

Of course it is a matter of how safe the vaccines are, because your "virtually zero risk" still meant  2,600 cases and 33 deaths from one complication of the infection in children of the US. If the vaccine can reduce this, or even completely prevent it, without increasing the risk for any other complication then your feelings about what is necessary or not are irrelevant, the value of the vaccine would still be above them.

The only way to end this is to control the pandemic, vaccines are the easier, safest and more effective way to do it, even if you personally don't want to believe it. So it is perfectly justified to promote and require immunization that lowers the risk for the person that is being vaccinated. Because it will not only benefit the community but also the person itself.

Not agreeing with this is irrational and will remain irrational until you can prove vaccines increase more the risk than what they lower it, this do not happen for any of the people that are currently being a target of vaccination, this could also apply for children, and it would be unethical to corroborate this, thus studies are being performed.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

You try to make this virus sound as bad as the bubonic plague. 

Nothing that I wrote is false, this is what viruses do.

Sure, the virus is not lethal to everybody that contracts it, but this risk can still be lowered thanks to safe and effective vaccines. Perfectly healthy young people have died, so it does not matter that the risk is not 100%, as long as there is risk and the vaccine can lower it then there is no problem with vaccinating.

Kids die, get serious complications (some for life) so if the vaccine can be proved to lower those risks without increasing others who are you to tell they should not be vaccinated? will you be responsible for anything that happens to a child that is infected because of lack of vaccination?

Again, prove that the vaccines are more risky than the disease and you can argue against them, before that you are just arguing for children to be subjected to higher risk for no valid reason.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

You seem to be deliberately avoiding the ethical issue of de facto coercing vaccination in order to participate in society. Do you have any proof that those children who did die (with or fromCOVID-19) did nor did not have comorbidities that would have raised their risk factor? It's a sad fact that some people are going to die from some respiratory infections, but do you think everyone should have to take a vaccine against their will under threat of exclusion from society when they're extremely unlikely to get sick let alone die from the infection? How many times do I have to reiterate that I'm not against people getting vaccinated with informed consent and without coercion? My parents are getting on in years and will most likely take the vaccine available where they live, and that's fine. But I'm much younger and in very good health, and have no intention of getting a jab while in this condition. The evidence has also shown by sheer numbers alone that the likelihood of children showing symptoms of COVID-19 is extremely low, so what is the rationality of essentially forcing them to get a covid shot when it would make basically no difference and wouldn't stop them passing on the virus anyway?

A fundamental advantage of Western society over autocracies like China is that we have autonomy over our own bodies and have the right to take or refuse vaccines or any other medication of our own volition. That's not a right a government or corporation can morally remove. But it's the direction we're heading in fast. Do you not observe what is going on around us, with all this talk of vaccine passports just to participate in everyday activities like going to school or work, or taking a plane? Doesn't;t it make you feel even slightly uncomfortable?

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

What on earth is going on here? This virus is essentially harmless to just about everyone under 60, and to most people under 80. Yet there's a rush to vaccinate the whole planet young as well as old. 

Even if it is generally harmless to the vast majority, it has been bad enough to heavily disrupt health and hospital care around the world. While this varies by country, in the UK, about half a million people have been hospitalized with Covid over the last year. That means people are missing other treatments they would otherwise have received. Perhaps an alternative to vaccination is to have enough spare hospital and isolation capacity to cope with such outbreaks when they occur, but in most places that is not a practical option right now.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

You seem to be deliberately avoiding the ethical issue of de facto coercing vaccination in order to participate in society. 

That is false, I made perfectly clear that there is nothing wrong with requiring an immunization that will lowers the risk not only for the community but also for the person being vaccinated. Your strawman depends completely on those children to be "sacrificed" for the good of others, in reality that is false because the vaccines can be also beneficial to them, so no sacrifice is needed, and the good is also for them.

Do you have any proof that those children who did die (with or fromCOVID-19) did nor did not have comorbidities that would have raised their risk factor?

And what if they had? that still means their risk is lowered, and if any single children can have comorbidities (even undetected) that still means the vaccine helps them lower that potential risk. Again, can you assure that every single children that is not vaccinated is absolutely healthy and has no factor that could make the COVID infection dangerous for them? because if you can't then you cannot argue against lowering that potential risk.

I never argued that anybody has to be vaccinated against their will, that is again your strawman (or quote me if you can), what I argue is that people can be required to be immunized in order to do certain things as long as the vaccine can scientifically be proved to lower their risk of complications and death. There is nothing invalid about that. You can have autonomy over your body, that still do not mean your choice will be rational or correct, I never said you should be forced to vaccinate (nor your kids) only that if vaccines are demonstrated to be as safe for children then the better option is to vaccinate, and that it would be justified to require immunization to do certain things, exactly the same as is done today, or last year, or 5 years before.

It does not matter that COVID represents a low risk for children, if the vaccines lowers even more that risk that is still a better option.

I know what viruses do, but you're attempting to inflate the threat of this virus. It's clear why, but saying so on this site gets posts deleted.

End of discussion.

So "inflate the threat" by saying things that are completely true? that is not rational. The point is that the virus is much more likely to disrupt the immune system than vaccines consisting on one single protein introduced to the body at a millionth of the dose. That is not inflating the threat, is simply saying something that is true to prove it.

If you feel the need to recognize you have no argument you are free to do it, in the same way I am free to argue again that the whole point is to lower risk for everybody, including the immunized kids. Many people do feel is positive to do something increase the chances of their kids getting a free pass from the infection.

1 ( +5 / -4 )

You seem to be deliberately avoiding the ethical issue of de facto coercing vaccination in order to participate in society.

Our boy has to have a bunch of vaccines up to date to be allowed in school. That helps protect the other kids, their families and school staff from a variety of potential illnesses. He's 6. I'm 63 and I had to have my arm filled with vaccines to go to school for the exact same reasons. I had even more in the military. None of that was optional. Get off your high horse pal. With rights come responsibilities and obligations, to your country, to your city and to your neighbors and co-workers. It isn't all about you. Classrooms are like a petri dish where germs grow. One kid gets a cold and pretty soon all the kids and their parents are running for the Robitussin. Colds are not so bad, but this flu has killed half a million Americans and millions world wide. Why do people keep denying it is dangerous? Healthy middle age and younger people are dying of this virus. Some kids too, and the inflammatory condition much like Kawasaki Disease some kids get later is just ugly and scary. People seem to forget about that. Kid has the virus and does ok but weeks later the inflammation starts. Life is not going to go back to normal until there is herd immunity. Be smart and get to herd immunity with vaccines and not by millions more dying so everyone can be infected, which is what happens if people refuse to vaccinate.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

What data would show there isn't a need to vaccinate children? Less than .1 % of deaths being children? which is exactly what's stated in the article. Sure there's side effects, it affects you way before you die, it contribrutes to herd immunity the list goes on and on. But I thought we were going to trust the science, trust the data... What happened to that?

All I know is moderna would vaccinate 1billion people to save 0 lives.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

What data would show there isn't a need to vaccinate children? Less than .1 % of deaths being children? 

Why would that mean there is no need? If you can prevent even that .1% that means there is a benefit.

Precisely because we are listening to the science is why this is being in consideration, if the vaccines are safe for children that would mean that even if their risk is low now, it would become even lower after being immunized.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

Yeah, that is if you completely ignore the known risks associated with vaccination. As well as the unknown ones, especially considering that their long term effects are not yet known.

Healthy kids should not be taking these risks.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Yeah, that is if you completely ignore the known risks associated with vaccination. As well as the unknown ones, especially considering that their long term effects are not yet known.

There are no known risks associated with COVID vaccination being identified until now, therefore ignoring imaginary risks is perfectly valid. No kids, healthy or not should be taking the risk of the natural infection if there is anything that can safely prevent it. Specially because the more we know about COVID-19 the more long term and permanent risks we find.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

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