Cost-conscious males make for stingy relationships

"I can’t really see any meaning in spending money on women"

Somehow a link to the article "'Will boyfriend' - A new expression in Japan’s evolving dating scene" would seem appropriate.

Cost-conscious males make for smart relationships.

It is at least an interesting intellectual position, if not one I could or ever have adhered to. I see it as an extension of the materialistic deliberation so prevalent everywhere, but with the added Japanes tendency to avoid or limit risk.

and so onto the population decline... still Im not sure these sort of miserable people would make good parents anyway.

I can sort of understand some young peoples lack of optimism about the future though, we are on a path where ideas of "anyone can make it" and "hard work pays off" are nice to say but really don't present reality.

Home ownership, savings and stability are all in decline, I for one am resigned to the fact that by choice or not I will be more than likely working as long as is physically possible. Retirement funds, certainly government, and in Japan compulsory, will have dried up long before Im eligible.

Japan in particular is in a very odd place where its schools and universities, work contracts and so on are designed on a concept of joining a company for life where you have a secure job, which by the time you retire provides some security even for average performers, however that world simply doesn't exist in the vast majority of cases.

The bit that does worry me in this young mans statement is that he says he has no interest in sex or women and sees social interaction as somewhat meaningless, this sounds like a borderline mental health issue to me, and if we end up with a generation of young people who feel like this I can't see how this is good for anyone.

Blame the victim. Maybe if they had more money they might be happy to sprinkle some more their gf's way. But you are asking men who are financially unstable to take on more financial responsibility. You are dreaming.

This is not only in Japan. I have plenty of American friends who don't get married and/or have a girlfriend because A. They'd rather spend money on themselves than down the drain on women and B. Weddings are expensive and Divorces sometimes twice as expensive.

Someone who's not interested in sex or relationships and therefore won't bother with any of them to save money is not the same as a 'stingy date', so the headline is misleading. In any case, it's not really any wonder a lot of males in this nation are freaking out and ending up "40-year-old virgins"; they're being told they are 'herbivores', not spending enough money on girls, that they are "will-boyfriends" and it's the other guys getting the nookie, that they are cheap, etc. The question is, what the hell do people (women) expect of them?

And at age 85, the married man will have 18.9 million yen in assets, compared to 15.87 million held by the bachelor.

Yeah, but which one had more fun?

In a society where women face significant barriers to earning much of their own money, let alone the same money as men, and men are by default expected to be rice-winners for their families, it's only natural women judge their potential mates on earning ability. And it's in turn only natural in such a society that men in financially-vulnerable positions should be suspicious that the women in their romantic lives may have ulterior, financially-driven motives.

I know a lot of Western expat men in Japan really resist the idea of Japanese women picking up any ideas from western feminism, but in the light of how destructive these gender-roles are to relationships, I don't see any reason to object - apart from perhaps if you are someone who is so unlikable that the only way you can find a partner is to keep them so economically vulnerable that they're willing to be bought...

Yeah, but which one had more fun?

That's the bottom line on all of these types of articles that seem related. Though I can understand the hesitancy of spending huge amounts of money in the dating scene (been there and done that), but that doesn't mean that if you don't want to do all of that your only option is to not date. How about going out with women who are not "high maintenance" for a chance and not be worried about trying to capture some image-type that everyone is after.

These people seem like they are young who are responding, but wait I would like to see them in a few years when the reality of life hits them. You may not want a family now, but how will you feel when you are in your 30's? Also, if you are not going to spend freely but wisely, then what will you be doing with your money? Why are you going to slave away at J-incorporated, and do nothing with the wages you make except to just by comics and sit around and play online games.

Guys need to learn how to take a chance on life and enjoy it a little.

From the article these "kosupa" guys don't want to spend money on women, don't want to be married and don't want children.

But they do want to spend time with male friends and spend their money on clothes so they look good.

Perhaps the term for these guys should be "homosexual"?

I think there's a layer of sentiments in this situation that was not spoken about, but that are as important as the financial point: how hard it is to get a date with a Japanese woman. From what one read in endless articles out there, it's easier to enter Tokyo University entrance exams using a blindfold than to get "approved" by a J-GF after the painful rituals and etiquette tests. Just that one about the drink (if she orders the same you're drinking, you win. If she orders different, you're a loser), it must painful: first, to get the date is horribly hard and full of subtleties and protocols. Second, the guy already arrives half-depressed, with the prospect of being rejected. Not to mention that some amount of money was invested in a nice restaurant. So, it's not hard to understand Japanese men giving up on women. I would, certainly. I think money is being used as an excuse to people to distance themselves from painful situations, and what better place this excuse can be used than in materialistic Japan?

Well, at the risk of people saying it's the MEN who are bad, given that some women want to be supported by a husband, treat him like a dog, then divorce him and demand money but not let the father see the kids, I can see the logic in young Japanese guys not wanting to get married.

Sorry, but if women here don't stop looking at things just from their angle, the chances of marrying and having kids are going to plummet further.

Yes, a little bitter. And yes, as the women here will all say, you should choose a lot more wisely before you marry.

But if a cosupa guy is something who is careful with money, I'd say he'd be a good one to marry. I should have found me a kosupa gaaru.

Thinking in terms of "cost performance" is OK I think.

The concept can certainly be applied to dating.

I'm always trying to get the best bang for my buck in my relationships with Japanese women.

Just have to be careful not to cross over the fine line into stinginess.

Men need to stop putting women on petal stools and stop trying to buy their affection.

What the heck is a petal stool? Did you mean pedestal?

But Japanese need to get a whole lot better at having fun with as little money as possible. Last I checked, a walk in the park or sex didn't cost anything ....

Typical Kuchikomi nonsense. Find a handful of people with any given habit and/or creatively supplement such numbers, call it a trend, rinse and repeat. Someone upthread referred to it as an "article." Journalism weeps.

Last I checked, a walk in the park or sex didn't cost anything ....

Walk in the park, free, sure I agree! Sex? That's another story, whether it's married life or single, many times "sex" has a price, be it in cash or some other service, and it's hardly "free".

Buy a drink, dinner, clean the house, etc etc etc...there is "price".

anyone can think and act according to their objectives but being always alone till the dust consumes them really sucks!! ah good for them and good for me im heading to japan in some months cause defintely those girls are living godesses of all planet possibly universe so the less they want them the more they leave them free!! really stupid in a way but lets take a good advantage to steal one of those eastern maidens : )

Okada sounds like a sociopath. Hate to be so blunt but thats down right scary.

Well, when the world's third largest economy only gives the bare minimum in salary and expects huge amounts of time at work... who can blame people for putting a premium on what little free time and money they have?

From the article these "kosupa" guys don't want to spend money on women, don't want to be married and don't want children. But they do want to spend time with male friends and spend their money on clothes so they look good. Perhaps the term for these guys should be "homosexual"?

Homophobia should become a thing of the past too, but it seems it still exists. That along with putting labels on people that do not deserve them.

Just because a person makes a conscious choice to not get married, and want to spend their time doing what makes them happy should be no ones business but their own.

Someone upthread referred to it as an "article." Journalism weeps.

Jcpan@Not every person who buys a newspaper demands in-depth, quality reporting. Some just want a distraction during their 90-minute commute home. Nikkan Gendai claims as many readers as the New York Times.

Yeah, but which one had more fun?

I'm guessing, but I'd say the one with a loving family. Had more fun, and is still probably having more fun, with grandkids and great-grandkids helping to keep him/her young.

And yes, a young, healthy person who isn't interested in the opposite sex, physical sex and relationships, and who counts everything in monetary terms, sounds like someone who needs to see a shrink. Soon.

Yeah, but which one had more fun?

That depends. A guy who stays single because he has a personality defect that doesn't allow him to get close with women, probably isn't going to have had much fun. A guy who get along with women fine but stays single because he doesn't feel the need to commit to someone for the rest of his life likely will have a lot of fun. A married guy who gets married because he feels that's what is expected of him probably won't have so much fun. A guy that gets married because he finds a woman he loves and wants to spend the rest of his life with, probably will.

And we call them FAILURES.

And we call them FAILURES.

Let me correct you here....YOU call them failures. I for one don't consider people who are obviously successful enough to enjoy the lifestyle of their choice to be failures.

To me you have a strange measuring stick when it comes to success and failure in life.

“I don’t feel any need for sex” - Okada.

Well, I have to disagree mightily there. But I am in the camp of not overspending. I once made the mistake of scheduling dinner as a first date. Paid out 9000 yen for the two of us, and never got a call back from her. Always just schedule coffee for the first date.

Cook a lot - find some recipes online and whip up something.

And during those holidays - Valentine's, Christmas, etc. - I just tell her: "Why is a diamond so valuable? It's because people have been brainwashed into thinking so. Have you been brainwashed? Nah, I don't think so. You look much smarter than that."

Okada-san is just making excuses for being a loser who cannot get a decent girlfriend. He would change his attitudes if he ever did, but taking such a view diminishes his chances substantially. There is more to life than selfish, lonely self-indulgence. So much more.

That said, if this is more than a freak example, there must be so many unsatisfied Japanese women out there.

Let me correct you here....YOU call them failures. I for one don't consider people who are obviously successful enough to enjoy the lifestyle of their choice to be failures.

To me you have a strange measuring stick when it comes to success and failure in life.

You obviously missed that my comment was a tongue-in-cheek commentary about many of the posters on this site, and not my own personal belief.

Case in point:

Okada-san is just making excuses for being a loser who cannot get a decent girlfriend.

The world is breeding generations of people who know the price of everything but the value of nothing.

Are there REALLY men who "don't feel the need for sex"?

Seriously.

"Buy a drink, dinner, clean the house, etc etc etc...there is "price"."

Yeah, that's for wives. Oh should I say, "your own wife".

wow, this is a discovery so unique to japan! this type of human can be found only in japan!

note (if you didn't): i am playing the role of a "japanese hater", trolling the website for any possible chance to bash japan.

FYI: in most of europe, people are more gregarious, but each one pays his/her own consumption, even among couples. you find the exact same behavior, but adapted to a different socio-cultural background.

Shallow, superficial, virgin with low self-esteem? Perhaps these kind of people will be the best-dressed and loneliest old men/women, deriving their joy from their smart phone screens. Watch where you walk, right into oncoming traffic!

"I don’t feel any need for sex,” Okada adds. “And as I don’t want to have children, there’s no point to doing it"

Right! Invest your money into your plastic figure collection! That's a fulfilling and meaningful life!!

Right! Invest your money into your plastic figure collection! That's a fulfilling and meaningful life!!

Is that meant to imply that sex is required for a fulfilling and meaning life?

apart from the emotional rewards, a relationship even though we dont like to admit it is also a financial loss or gain, for gold digging women and men they have to have a good look at themselves and say well I need a rich partner that can feed me money. but what assets do I have both financial/emotional/phsyical that can repay them in. something that they cant get from your host/hostess bar or soapland.

Men need to stop putting women on petal stools

@Mr. Noidall

Good eggcorn (I assume that was intentional).

Anyway, at least you can be sure these cost-conscious men are not woman eyesers.

Strangerland: "Is that meant to imply that sex is required for a fulfilling and meaning life?"

No. Sex is just one of the many things these guys missing out, namely the whole gamut of life full-filling things that are involved in a relation, most importantly (and for more important than sex) the compassion felt for each other.

I'm always trying to get the best bang for my buck in my relationships with Japanese women.

I see what you did there!

With the way women nag and try to run a mans life its any wonder they are not interested. Also, if things don`t work out they lose their kids and tons of cash.

refers to men in their 20s who dispassionately evaluate all aspects of their life in terms of returns on investments.

This doesn't only apply to men in their 20s, this can be said to all Japanese and Japan society.

“I don’t feel any need for sex,” Okada adds. “And as I don’t want to have children, there’s no point to doing it.

That some people may come to think like this shows that there is serious mental disorder in Japan society. Seems that they can't or just don't want to enjoy LIFE.

''I don't feel any need for sex.'' Okada san is either a eunuch or, more likely, trying to justify his feeling of inadequacy with regards to MOTOS. Men have a biological need to procreate. It's as simple as that. Let's face it. Marriage and kids are not for everyone. In this economic climate it's not surprising that men feel frustrated and despondent. Sour grapes Okada san? Somebody please tell him, and other ''asexual'' males, that it's perfectly possible to enjoy a single life without the hassles of a money grubbing wife.

Somebody please tell him, and other ''asexual'' males, that it's perfectly possible to enjoy a single life without the hassles of a money grubbing wife.

Amen!

lolozo79 JUN. 17, 2015 - 07:50PM JST ''I don't feel any need for sex.'' Okada san is either a eunuch or, more likely, trying to justify his feeling of inadequacy with regards to MOTOS. Men have a biological need to procreate. It's as simple as that.

While it's just about a certainty that many people who claim to have rejected relationships with women are doing so to cover up a history of failed attempts at relationships (see the Men Going Their Own Way movement), to deny the possibility of male asexuality simply because the denier can't comprehend what that would be like is to talk out one's ass. Kinda like how even if I've never once in my entire life, no matter how much I've had to drink, ever wanted to pick a fist-fight with someone, I'd have to be an utter moron to claim that all other people must feel the same way.

Folks is different. Best get used to it.

@Katsu78-What an asinine analogy.It is not natural to want to pick a fist-fight. As you claimed, when one is drunk tensions rise and people don't think rationally. Fighting, by nature, is an aberration because of the risk of injury or worse. It is not a rational act for most normal people. Sex is evolutionarily hardwired in the human brain. How could you even compare the two? Ever watch Fight Club? Most people will do anything to avoid a fight or confrontation. On the other hand, men think about sex every 5 minutes. Boys as young as 10 fantasize about the opposite sex. Bottom line, we men are born with the desire to procreate with as many women as possible. Those who choose to lead a strictly celibate lifestyle usually do so because of occupational circumstance, eg. monkhood. It ain't natural. It is NOT necessarily ''the history of failed attempts'' as you put it, but a fear of the unknown, of possible rejection, that result in such men as Okada. Anyhow, my original point was that sex and marriage are not inextricably connected. Not to sound rude or anything but Katsu san, am I perhaps hitting a little to close to home?

Tell me one thing that ruins relationships, or the possibility of a relationship in the world.. Egoism :) At least he realizes that he wouldn't be comfortable in a relationship.

But..wow, 23 year old and not interested in sex? Are you kidding me???? Maybe I get it! He gets so worried about ending up having to pay all his life if something goes wrong that it killed the pleasure for him. Still too young though.

To me, he sounds like a very old man, stubborn and unable to open up his heart. It is a pity. When you are really in love, money won't mater for quite a while. Wedding? Do a simple wedding!!! The wedding is for you and your spouse, not for the guests to "ooooh!" at!!!

You just let yourself get caught up in the marketing rush for gift-giving on St Valentine’s Day, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, etc,” he frowns. “What’s the point? All the more reason to trim the trappings of human relationships to the bone.”

How about you just cut your consumerism to the bone rather than your relationships?

Money can't buy me love.

The wife and I are pretty cost-conscious I'd say. I honestly think saying that "having a girlfriend is too expensive" is really just an excuse to justify their behavior- it's just as cheap to go to the park or hang around the house watching a movie with a friend than it is a wife.

Moreover, and I think this is the key,... they seem to think a girlfriend/wife and a friend are mutually exclusive things. My wife is easily my best friend and at the end of the day when we're both worn out, we enjoy just laying around the house playing games or watching TV together.

kosupa-kei® of the Ministry of Finance

Another label of shame by the central planners. Abe wants you to spend your money Damn it!

Cost-conscious males make for stingy relationships

Money grubbing females make for the stingiest relationships of all. Manicures, hair salons, L. vutton, luxury cars and biannual overseas trips cost a fortune for us "stingy" males/BF/keep-kuns/will be/husbands/x's & divorcees.

its just the "depressed to have a boring life" type

Flowers dont cost much, in fact they can be free if you are careful. Also go into a bead shop and make a necklace with matching ear rings. Simple, cheap but expressive. If the girl doesnt appreciate those things because they didnt cost much then believe me you are better without her.

Seems to me these guys are trying to retaliate against women for not wanting serious relationships. All I see lately are gold digging girls sucking the life out of men and moving on to the next victim until they end up lonely old women, I've been searching all my life to find a real relationship but it just never happens, I've been single 7 years not a single date in all this time and I hate living like this, (no money no honey) it is a sad fact if you're not rich or drive a flashy car you may as well commit suicide, what is the point in living, half the population is female, we all should be able to find a partner in life but I just give up it's a stupid game but female affection is essential and vital to happiness in life otherwise you may as-well just be in prison or go and curl up under a tree and die.

I stand by what I say all the time, Japanese government needs to demolish the strict immigration laws. Apparently Japanese men feel that they rather watch non-talented idol girl groups, play video games, and whatever else instead of trying to date their sexually frustrated women. Bring in more people around the world, especially America, to the country and watch the population grow. Us men in the U.S. would love to date their women and make children with them. Unfortunately Japanese men can't do their jobs properly.

Poverty of the mind.

Seems to me these guys are trying to retaliate against women for not wanting serious relationships. All I see lately are >gold digging girls sucking the life out of men and moving on to the next victim until they end up lonely old women

I'm not sure what environment you are in, but there are plenty of loving, affectionate, relationship-minded women out there who will tolerate limited economic situations.......IF you, as a man, are compelling enough, and push all the right buttons emotionally.

I've been searching all my life to find a real relationship but it just never happens, I've been single 7 years not a >single date in all this time and I hate living like this, (no money no honey)

I tell men this all the time: make yourself a better man and you will have no shortage of women. What are you doing to improve yourself? Exercise and wear clean clothing that accentuates your physique. Take steps to improve your income. Have interesting hobbies. Smile a little. Go about your awesome daily adventures conquering the world around you....and when you happen to notice a cute woman staring at you, say Hello to her. Understand that you are not striving to gain her affections, you are simply giving her an opportunity to prove her worth to YOU. That's 50% of getting a girl covered in one paragraph.

it is a sad fact if you're not rich or drive a flashy car you may as well commit suicide

Pffft. Decent sports cars can be had for a few thousand dollars, ESPECIALLY here in Japan. Do your own maintenance. Every man should know how to change tires and oil. If you have your own apartment (even if modest in size), and have a fast fun car, you can collect women like they are Pokemon. I know because it's the lifestyle of practically every early 30's man (married and bachelors alike, here and in the US) in my social circle. Hell, in big cities like New York, Tokyo, and Osaka you don't even need the car! I know playboys in Osaka who ride bicycles.

but I just give up it's a stupid game but female affection is essential and vital to happiness in life otherwise you may >as-well just be in prison or go and curl up under a tree and die

If you can't enjoy your life and its successes in the absence of a female then adding one to the equation isn't going to help you. Women seem to have a sixth sense for low self-esteem, neediness, and depression, and they avoid those men like the plague.

Do we need to get serious about Okada's perception or lack of it about life? Uhh, how old is he again?

And yes, a young, healthy person who isn't interested in the opposite sex, physical sex and relationships, and who counts everything in monetary terms, sounds like someone who needs to see a shrink. Soon.

Hardly... after seeing what clinical socipathic, narcissitics women are becoming... it's more like women collectively need a psychological therapy session en masse. To lurkers, men are NOT a human being.. It's not about who YOU are, it's always about what you can do for the sisterhood. I'm glad that more men are putting their own self-interests above womens because let's be honest here... outside of sex what do women offer? Loyalty? Look at the lousy divorce rates with the majority initatied by women. Fidelity? LULZ. All this shaming is so utterly predictable but more to the point futile. A lot of women will be spinsters by their own doing (hubris/arrogance/hypergamy/massive slutdom) Bed Made Lie. Ah the blessed Schadenfreude!!

Heh.

How come they always point out that a married man earns a little bit more money than the unmarred man?

They never mention how the married man also works longer hours and takes less time off work.

They never mention how the divorced man has half the assets of the single man...

Keeping that in mind it's better to stay single and on your own...

B. Weddings are expensive and Divorces sometimes twice as expensive

One of the guys I work with he spent over $50,000 dollars on lawyer fees for his divorce.

LOL @ the women wasting their time trying to shame men back into illogical behaviour. Shaming comes from an emotional stance. You can try to shame logic as much as you wish but it won't make a difference. Well, you might get a shoulder shrug I guess.

I have only been divorced three times, so my opinion probably will not matter much.

I am still worth 50 million though. One must learn to hide funds.

How come they always point out that a married man earns a little bit more money than the unmarred man?

maybe because of taxes for married man is lower to single man

I heard that japanese man love their bonsai than their wife, so that's why divorce become higher. At least when you buy bonsai, you didn't just put it in the garden and let itself to bloom as you like it. you have to cherish it everyday and heal it when it sick. or it would be left you too.