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Older men up in arms over slovenly female behavior

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It's an increasingly familiar sight during the rainy season: a young woman, seated on a train, gripping the handle of her umbrella vertically between her knees. But as she begins to doze she relaxes her grip, and her legs drift apart.

Physician and author Kimihiro Yoneyama, 57, finds himself aghast at the spectacle of these "kasa-mata onna" (women with umbrellas between their thighs), and when it comes to complaining, he doesn't beat around the bush.

"Especially when they wear skirts, it's a problem of where to direct your eyes," Yoneyama grumbles to Sunday Mainchi (July 12), adding it would be more appropriate for them to carry folding umbrellas.

Rakugo comedian Yonesuke Katsura, 61, is another middle-aged male who disparages what appears to be a decline in female modesty in public. While aboard the JR Chuo line between Shinjuku and Kanda stations, he looked on in amazement as a young woman applied cosmetics. During a span of approximately 20 minutes, she completely transformed herself.

"I can't understand this. She had no awareness that she could be seen by other people. They might as well yank out their false teeth in front of everyone," Katsura grumbles. What a change from the good old days, when Japanese brides were even advised to avoid letting their husbands peer at their sleeping face.

Another of Katsura's pet peeves is the clatter generated by women's casual footwear -- especially mules, which produce a terrible racket when the wearer descends the steps at a rail station.

"Who do they think they are, the 'oiran' on parade in Yoshiwara?" he asks, making a reference to old Edo's highest-ranked courtesans, who used to appear in public processions wearing enormous, stilt-like wooden clogs. "Some women wear mules to the office too. I feel like telling them, 'You're not on holiday at some oceanside villa!'"

Sports commentator Takenori Emoto, 61, meanwhile, is unhappy over women's shrill voices.

"You drop into an izakaya and they are really loud. On occasion, I've even asked the staff, 'Has your shop been booked for a private party?' And if I request one to tell her companions to turn down the volume a bit, she'll just get angry."

Emoto also complains that more women charge straight ahead like they own the sidewalk, expecting others to move out of their way.

Meiji University professor Takashi Saito offers an analysis of what's behind these changes in female behavior. "As with the old expression 'bojaku bujin' (outrageous or imprudent), it's come to this because women feel no awareness over being observed by others. They're concerned about those in their circle of acquaintances but have no consideration for anyone else. The trend is to treat others as if they didn't exist."

Well, it's one thing for males to mutter on the pages of a magazine; but the next time they encounter a woman doing something they dislike, can they summon up their courage and tell her off?

Probably not a good idea, advises Saito, who warns such criticisms might be construed as sexual harassment.

© Japan Today

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How dare women make noises with their mules, clogs, high heels, etc., at the eki! How dare they pollute the pristine air w/ their "shrill voices"! Maybe these guys would rather live in a society without any women. Parts of China will approach this situation in the next 15-20 yrs. Maybe, with all their complaints, they could consider moving to Iran or Saudi Arabia, where women are not really seen and barely heard. Give me a break.

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On the one hand, I'm happy to see this. It means J-women are starting to shed the pathetic masks they are forced to wear for men; the docile, quiet, agreeable masks that weird out foreigners very quickly. Part of me suspects these men are just unhappy to have someone -else- talking and complaining so that they themselves can't have their turn to b--ch. These complainers certainly sound like the type, after all.

As for where to direct your eyes ... Read a book, or, um, treat the person's legs as what they are: not yours ! Which means there's no reason for you to stare unless you're a creepy perve.

On the other hand, I have seen my share of blissfully ignorant mewlers who treat a train carriage or waiting area like their personal space, lounging over it and generally making a nuisance of themselves. While I agree that 'kids these days' need to learn some manners, it doesn't mean that J-women should continue with the simpering compliance to ossans and their sketchy, sketchy ways.

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Well, it’s one thing for males to mutter on the pages of a magazine; but the next time they encounter a woman doing something they dislike, can they summon up their courage and tell her off?

Probably not a good idea, advises Saito, who warns such criticisms might be construed as sexual harassment.

That isn't sexual harassment, if you don't like something you don't have to sit there and take it, move to another train carriage or whatever.

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“Especially when they wear skirts, it’s a problem of where to direct your eyes,” Yoneyama grumbles

No problem for Altria.

Emoto also complains that more women charge straight ahead like they own the sidewalk, expecting others to move out of their way.

Mostly oba-sans, and they always come off second best.

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"Especially when they wear skirts, it's a problem of where to direct your eyes"

How about when they wear short shorts and boots?

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While aboard the JR Chuo line between Shinjuku and Kanda stations, he looked on in amazement as a young woman applied cosmetics. During a span of approximately 20 minutes, she completely transformed herself.

Ummmmm.... It takes about 10 minutes between Shinjuku and Kanda.

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I thought my Jfiance and I were the only ones who noticed these behaviors in Jland.

The sidewalk thing is hilarious. I thought that only Russian people were like that, but surprising that the shy Jpeople behave the same way.

French women know how to wear short skirts and to carry it well.Especially when you are seated. If you do it well then it is very sexy. But Jladies, no no no not really your kind of style. Yes, even the shoes, no point in wearing the nice stilletos and walking like as though you are bow-legged. Most of the girls just unconsciously make it look like they are bow-legged.

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Someone needs to put this article in a big Japan time capsule and read it again in 20 years... the times, they are a changin'...

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This kind of thing really gets on my nerves.

Get on the Chiyoda Line any time day or night. Who's knuckle-deep in their own nostril? Who's yawning out Gyoza/coffee/tobacco breath without an attempt to cover their mouth? Who's so busy scowling that they don't notice they're taking up two seats?

It's Toshi, in his ancient, shiny, long-uncleaned blue polyester suit.

And who gets the huff when a young minx makes herself even more fanciable by putting her own make-up on her own face in her own time?

It's Toshi again, seething in his frustration that the foxtress isn't going to even give him a second glance and the only way he gets to see a woman smile is pay for one.

And where's a woman supposed to put an umbrella if not between her thighs? Up her arse? Toshi would be the first to start bleating if she put her wet umbrella in the overhead wire shelf and a droplet of rainwater were to make a clean spot on his barcode hairdo.

Pathetic. Women squeaking like five year-olds = network TV. Woman carrying umbrella onto train = affront to human decency.

Risible, wickless old poltroons.

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"Poltroons" LOL that article sounds like it's written by old farts, for old farts. sour grapes cuz they aren't allowed to grope those same young women anymore.

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This story reminded me an article written by Sakai Junko, an essayist who has written often, and well, with an observant eye on, amongst other things, social behaviour and public manners in Japan. In an excellent Japanese language tutor, Read Real Japanese, she wrote about young female behaviour, especially in relation to the application of makeup in trains. Now if you are "in" to studying Japanese, with a little humour, this book and the article is worth acquiring and reading. Part of the article can be read at http://randomkobe.cocolog-nifty.com/center/2007/11/post_e183.html

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right on 1950`s era j dudes, who let these japanese women outta the kitchen anyway.

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LOL...this is quite humorous...I've seen this behavior quite often traveling on the trains, subways and buses....at least they are not driving cars, riding bicycles or motor scooters....but, I see the disrespect on the designated seats for the elderly, handicapped, etc.....the younger generation should stand up and get some excercise...or I'll poke them with my umbrella.....LOL....male or female...might be a real "thrill" LOL

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Oh meanwhile it's okay for the drunk Kunihiros to pull out their tackle anywhere and relieve themselves, spit phlegm anywhere, and expect the younger generation to bend over backwards to appease these guys? You reap what you and your generation have sewn.

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Especially when they wear skirts, it’s a problem of where to direct your eyes,”

so dont look you tool.. plenty of other places to fix your eyes upon..

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The idea that slovenliness is unique to young women, or younger people in general, is an outright canard.

I was on the train last night and a lady got on who was a) at least 80 years old, and b) visually impaired. Both sets of courtest seats fully-occupied with the spectrum of locals, from effeminate youth to oyaji. All perfectly able to stand. All glanced up, all saw the lady who was entitled to use the seat, all looked down again and busied themselves.

Who ended up giving the seat up? The barbarian on the regular seats, of course.

And they'll spout this pap about "We Japanese show consideration for those around us, we Japanese respect our elders because they are very wise, we Japanese are very manner people" and it's all bollocks.

I don't have any problem with a young lady carrying an umbrella on a rainy day, and I don't mind if she puts her make up on. But if there's people needing a seat, and you can't be arsed to even move along on the seat you're taking up two spaces on, don't be surprised if I moon you.

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A really crusty old dude with a walking stick got onto my train this morning. One 30-ish woman sitting in the courtesy seat got up to give him her seat. The guy says "No, you sit down" - points to the girl next to her - "You get up, you're the youngest".

The girl got up.

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Rakugo comedian Yonesuke Katsura, 61, is another middle-aged male

He's middle-aged? At 61? I get the idea this article originally appeared in "Frustrated Old Farts' Gazette".

"10 things to get irate about before you die (in the next five years)"

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Hilarious! More the comments than the article! Thanks for the benefit of your experience Altria!

But through my laughter I remember an experience I had on a train, sitting opposite some young woman in a skirt. No umbrella, but she kept dozing and her legs were drifting apart. I knew no-one had a decent view, and I certainly wasn't about to look, but she kept waking up and giving everyone a dirty look while she adjusted her skirt! Like it was someone going over to her and moving her legs so they could have a good look. Silly woman, if she was that tired and didn't have shorts under her skirt she should have remained standing.

The women doing their make-up can stay. They're good for a laugh, and I'm waiting for the train to stop suddenly so I can snicker at a streak of black or red across one of their faces!

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pretty funny, since old j-men are among the least aware of personal hygiene anywhere in the world...i guess burping, farting, pissing in the streets and having dead-squid breath is ok

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dammit..if your weren't looking how did you know her legs were drifting apart,and how could you tell she woke up occasionally to give dirty looks round the carriage?..telepathy? ..and waiting for the trains to stop suddenly in Japan sounds like a lost cause. The rule is if you're doing it in public don't be surprised if you draw an audience,either admiring or admonishing or indeed both.

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How amusing that crusty middle-aged Japanese men are complaining about the behaviour of young Japanese women! I particularly love the complaint about charging down the street like they own it! If you can't take it, don't dish it out, guys! Could it be that they are more concerned that they are losing their vice-like patriarchal grip on these women...?

Have to admit though - I'm with them on the screechy voices - what IS that???!

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If a young lady's legs are wide open on the train of course I will look. The eyes just drift down to the region. Must be male I suppose! Really the only thing I hate on the train is the inordinate amount of farting that goes on. What do these people have for breakfast?

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Ivan:

*I was on the train last night and a lady got on who was a) at least 80 years old, and b) visually impaired. Both sets of courtest seats fully-occupied with the spectrum of locals, from effeminate youth to oyaji. All perfectly able to stand. All glanced up, all saw the lady who was entitled to use the seat, all looked down again and busied themselves.

Who ended up giving the seat up? The barbarian on the regular seats, of course.*

This right here is gold.

Rarely do I ride the subway and even rarer that I ride a bus. But I will be damned if I have not gotten up to offer my seat to some old, disabled or preggers woman than most (I am thinking 99.5%) Japanese have whom happen to ride the subway or bus every day.

Japanese pride themselves on being "polite and courteous".

What a friggin joke.

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Women here in the UK don't do this kind of stuff (except the make up) but if they were all as cute and in-shape as the average J-girl I wouldn't be complaining about it. Seeing fat women, pregnant teenagers and women who look 10 years older than they are really sucks :(

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the only reason japanese ladies are (usually) such experts in the art of refined feminine behaviour is because it's expected of them and, frankly, it is about the only legitimate way for a female to get ahead in this country. conversely this is exactly why so many men stop making any effort whatsoever as soon as they're out of the 30s - because they don't need to. if the j ladies are starting to get a bit slack it might be because they're slowly levering more power away from the (complaining) oyajis. hallelujah!

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Who ended up giving the seat up? The barbarian on the regular seats, of course.

japanese are obliged to act stoopingly considerately to those within their uchi but there is zero obligation to act similarly around strangers. i don't think a lot of japanese realise how contradictory this seems to outsiders. to them it seems perfectly natural and does nothing to contradict the "we are considerate" line...

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People should be equally polite to everyone no matter who they are. Given that, personally I don't care what they do as long as they are hot.

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well its summer so most people are,hot that is.Managed the complete works of shakespeare yet?

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If women don't like what a man does, she ignores him and the guy will not get laid or get married. I suggest the same treatment toward rude women.. if men collectively do this it will force them to change their behavior. I see it happening in Japan quite a lot now that I think about it. With men turning to porn, real doll's, etc...

aw

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Women here in the UK don't do this kind of stuff (except the make up)

I've personally never seen women do their make-up on public transport in ANY of the countries I've been to, and that includes UK. While it doesn't affect me, it just makes those sort of vain miihaa's look absolutely stupid. But that's their problem.

The problems we see are caused by everyone - young, old, male, female. I've had high school girls eat ramen next to me on the commuter train, an oyaji dropping peanuts over my feet and then throw the garbage on the floor. I've seen salarymen spit inside the trains, all sorts of people speaking loudly, high school boys smoke in the trains, Chinese couples have slanging matches, salarymen read newspapers which display full frontal nudity.

And what is it that prevents many Japanese from lifting their feet properly while walking? Their shoes don't get enough respect.

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"You drop into an izakaya and they are really loud"

Heck, just about everyone's really loud in an izakaya after a few beers.

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Jdudeo - I hate to admit it but you are so right. I am back in the UK for 2 months (coming to an end soon) and when I first arrived I asked my Mum if there was a teenage mother convention going on in the town! It is shocking! Every time I go out I am one of the slimmest, fittest people around - and I'm nearly 6 months pregnant!

Here in the UK young women seem to have lost all self-respect. These oyaji's complain that in Japan women charge down the street?? Here in the UK women PEE on the street!!!

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my pet hate is people who cut finger nails and even toe nails on trains. that is shocking anti social behaviour.

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Modesty is a virtue that few possess. I totally agree with the comment about the mules and might I add flip-flops. I workd in a public place and the clacking and flapping is almost too much on somes days.

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Sounds like grumpy old men who should be ignored.

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So, these oyaji would like it better if the gals wore burqas?

Besides, if women crossed their legs on the train, perverts would whip out their cell phone cameras and take pictures, get caught and arrest only for it to be revealed that they are semi-famous people. And THEN where would JT be?

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my pet hate is people who cut finger nails and even toe nails on trains. that is shocking anti social behaviour.

Oh! Yuck! Have you really seen people do that??! I think I'm gonna throw up!

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The old guy said he has a problem diverting his eyes when her legs come open.....yeah, right.

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Wow, are these guys serious? I thought compaines encouraged their female employees to do things like speak in a higher, "cuter" tone of voice? Gosh, what horrible women! How dare they wear loud shoes and skirts to tempt those old perverts. I bet during rush hour some of these ojisans don't have a problem brushing up against some young school girl in a skirt.

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Just another guy who wishes the women were all back at home in their kimonos. Here's how you handle the umbrella issue... Complement the woman on the color of her panties. I guarantee one of two things will happen... she'll move (solving the problem) or she'll pay more attention to who she is flashing (solving the problem).

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Alot of the older generations cannot accept that fact that most of the young females in Japan has evolved into more U.S. like attitude and behavior. These new generation women are more independent with confidence and most have good sense of direction without worrying about what others judge in previous generations.

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I have to agree with the old guy in the story. These women have no class (in my opinion), and are completely self-centered. The slack-jawed guys who nap and talk on their cell phones while sitting in front of the train doors are no better. I don't see any solution to this. They are what they are, and saying something to them would almost certainly be ineffective.

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Ahh, our daily dose, of titillation. Thought I was gonna miss it.

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my pet hate is people who cut finger nails and even toe nails on trains. that is shocking anti social behaviour.

I'd take that anyday (finger nails, that is) instead of people picking their noses and ears, and then sticking their fingers in their mouths. I've seen it before and it ain't a pretty sight!

These new generation women are more independent with confidence and most have good sense of direction without worrying about what others judge in previous generations.

You can be independent with confidence AND act in a graceful way (that applies to EVERYONE). Having independence does not mean you can scream out loud inside the trains. You can wear tight miniskirts, etc and pile on the makeup just to go shopping if you like. No skin off my back, but in most countries you'd be regarded as a pro.

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Oh come on, some women do this on purpose so you will look! Of course a normal man with a sex drive (or a pulse) will at least briefly check it out. Same with a women bending over displaying her bazoombas or getting in or out of a car in a short skirt...

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I don't have an issue with modesty so much. I have to agree Tokyo's scenery is far better than the parade of zeppelins on US streets these days.

But I do agree with the old guys that manners are being lost. And this does not only apply to women, but to men. What happened to self respect, grace and simply being polite. Now it seems people are too self absorbed and clueless to even care about anything going on around them.

I think both sexes could improve on their self respect and cultured behavior. Oyaji included.

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as usual, I agree with IvanCough.

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"... it’s come to this because women feel no awareness over being observed by others. They’re concerned about those in their circle of acquaintances but have no consideration for anyone else. The trend is to treat others as if they didn’t exist".

This pretty sums up Japanese culture. Until that it's laughable to think that anything else will.

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I bet these are the same oyajis that are always smacking their saliva in the seats next me.

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In my opinion, Japanese people's behavior has become more aggressive and inconsiderate. Both men and women. But there are still many perfectly well behaved people. I was walking quietly down the street with my girlfriend, and was shoulder barged buy a drunk Japanese guy who then proceeded to try and start a fight, like a K1 pre-match stare down! Incredible! I never thought I would see that in this country. And recently, a Japanese girl in her 20s charged through train doors as they were closing, deliberately crashing right into me, and actually put both elbows out in front like battering rams, which got me right in the chest. Why do Japanese people HAVE to get on the train as the doors are closing?? But it's not all bad. This morning a woman lost her balance, jumped on my foot, and fell right onto me. She said a quick "Sumimasen", which is all that's required.

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This pretty sums up Japanese culture. Until that it's laughable to think that anything else will.

indeed. it's nothing remotely new. the only thing that has changed is that in modern japan people are mostly surrounded by "soto" people. japan needs to start teaching respect for others for the sake of it alone, rather than just out of obligation to your social group. i think the difference is that in the west we have "do unto others as you would have done unto yourself"

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Who's yawning out Gyoza/coffee/tobacco breath without an attempt to cover their mouth? Who's so busy scowling that they don't notice they're taking up two seats?

Dude, you omitted the ninniku(garlic). Gives me headaches everyday. As for the mini-skirts I never really noticed it. But women sleeping with their mouth wide open is a sad view. A lady did drop her things while napping like that in front of me. I was really disgusted that I did not bother to help collecting her stuffs. My gentleman-ship is in danger.

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how about the would-be-comic-if-it-weren't-so-annoying rag doll way in which people seem to (quite literally) fall asleep on trains. i'll never be able to understand it; the best way to fall asleep on a train is surely to carefully lower your head down (or back) in a position in which it will stay when you go under. but you see people switch off, head falls suddenly and in a heart beat they've woken themselves up! repeat this process every minute as they loll their heads down, left, right, up, back, forward.

i swear one time i saw a kid on a (luckily empty) chioyda line train. his head was practically in his own lap, but every time he went under his body lurched suddenly to the left or to the right like he was having convulsions, when it appeared that all he was was tired... was the most bizarre sight

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Luckily I have heard that history does repeat itself. So therefore everything will go back to the way it was. Some things that is good others are bad. I'll let you make up your minds on that note.

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Slovenly. Love it! Haven't heard that word for decades. It used to be brandished by matronly school mistresses, darkly threatening that somehow not fixing a ripped button or an untidy desk hinted at some kind of terminal descent into sexual deviation and prostitution. It was never spelt out, but there seemed to be some kind of connection between the state of your nails and your moral upstandingness. Now they're digging it out for girls who aren't gripping their umbrellas between their thighs. Wish someone had told me earlier that we're supposed to do this.

On the other hand, I hate those yappy slappy little mules, too, maybe because it accentuates the Japanese girly walk - toes in, calves out, knock-kneed. Always makes me think of the walk of a baby that's done a dump in its nappy. And don't even get me started on Japanese likkle girly sing-song squeaky voices.

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This can be the highlight of an otherwise dull train journey.

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Japanese girly walk - toes in, calves out, knock-kneed. Always makes me think of the walk of a baby that's done a dump in its nappy. And don't even get me started on Japanese likkle girly sing-song squeaky voices.

Hate that walk myself. When my brother was a kid, he walked all pigeon toed like that, and my parents bought him corrective shoes. Now he walks properly.

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I completely agree with these old Japanese.

The old way it is much more fun: how can one sexually harass a girl, if the girl is wearing skirt, talk laud and maybe not even a virgin blushing with the excitement that I am groping her on a crowded train. Oh tempura, oh mores!

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Big In Japan

Oh tempura, oh mores!

Oh I say, sir, very well done. Not often we get a dose of Cicero here. Now that's what I call elevating the level of debate on the boards.

You taking notes, Ed?

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They’re concerned about those in their circle of acquaintances but have no consideration for anyone else. The trend is to treat others as if they didn’t exist.

A very excellent point. People here just have no consideration or manners.

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Seeing a hottie on the train and having a harmless perv gives me a boost for the day, like coffee. Now, there is perv etiquette and staring in between a womans legs is a no no, especially if she's in front of you. Keep it at a distance where no one gets hurt.

From what I've seen in nearly 5 years, Japanese people are very rude, selfish and don't care for anyone or anything that isn't directly related to them. If I see someone in need of help, I'll help and expect nothing in return but I know if I'm in need of some help, I won't expect any Japanese to come running. It's as if the Japanese have been so repressed for so many years that they are rebelling like teenagers and they don't know where to stop.

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How fortunate for the old man to have a few minutes to pay attention to others and write goofy articles on how "everybody else" ought to change. Personally, I am oblivious to all of these people. I cannot remember when I did not have something better to do than watch the subway circus.

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Yes. As men we should beat these women until they do what we tell them. See how allowing women to be indepenent and get educated has ruined them. Now they think they are first class citizens. Yes... the old Japanese way in the best in the world. (sarcasim)

Who are these old dudes? Tell them to shut up and mind their own business. I could go on for hours about who Japanese old men are the ones ruining this country with their teeth sucking, Pomado Kusai hair grease, clandestine train guffing, loud sneezing, and nose picking.

In my opinion, if these noisy people or free willed people are not hurting anyone, then these Japanese old dudes need to sit down and shut the heck up. Live and let live.

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Jesus Christ. Are you people for real?! How dare you criticise the manners of Japanese people. You're living in the WORLD'S biggest megalopolis. A city crowded with millions and you expect every stranger to be courteous?! Where did you people come from, Sticksville USA? Go to New York or LA and you'll find some majorly rude asses, far worse than a Japanese girl who has fallen asleep on a train after working a 15 hour shift. Talk about the 'Ugly American'....

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I'm sorry but I just wanted to add that griff's comment of: "i think the difference is that in the west we have "do unto others as you would have done unto yourself", made me fing sick.

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Really the only thing I hate on the train is the inordinate amount of farting that goes on. What do these people have for breakfast?

Natto...?

Oh tempura, oh mores!

LOL. Thanks for that Japanese version.

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Obviously one has no control of ones etiquette when they dozed off and display what was not suppose to the dismay or delight of onlookers. I'd have seat myself in a safe position and appreciate it if someone would inform me if such spectacle happenned. Sometimes friends even hesitant to inform one another if their button or zip came undone for reasons of embarrassing each other. So to each his own. This also goes for wearers of mules that produce terrible racket and women who shrill on top of their voices. Who's there to tell them? They might be retaliated by a slap or punch. The sorry state of 'to each his own'!

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spudman: Oh meanwhile it's okay for the drunk Kunihiros to pull out their tackle anywhere and relieve themselves, spit phlegm anywhere, and expect the younger generation to bend over backwards to appease these guys? You reap what you and your generation have sewn.

Well said.

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guffing - what is guffing?

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What a change from the good old days, when Japanese brides were even advised to avoid letting their husbands peer at their sleeping face.

Oh, yes, the good old Edo Jidai, where women used to walk 5 steps behind their husbands, natsukashii! Now it's only 3 steps, but better than nothing!

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A very excellent point. People here just have no consideration or manners.

Richard III > you're right, it's stupid to point the finger at women. The culture here is to behave well within their group, but few have regard for those outside their group, i.e. in public. This is regardless of gender.

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Why would anyone sleep on a train anyway, sounds to me like you're asking for trouble.

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So, women being up in arms over slovenly male behavior for centuries isn't a story? Well, I suppose that's not really "news," it's been going on for so long.

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You want rude? How about the morons who board trains with their keitai thrust out in front of them, as if they are trying to exorcise anyone who might happen to be standing by the door. You can't ride a train without seeing it, and I can't see it without thinking of the shock and astonishment on that person's face at the moment I lop off their hand at the wrist with my trusty Ghurka knife.

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xmugwump at 09:58 PM JST - 9th July Jesus Christ. Are you people for real?! How dare you criticise the manners of Japanese people. You're living in the WORLD'S biggest megalopolis. A city crowded with millions and you expect every stranger to be courteous?! Where did you people come from, Sticksville USA? Go to New York or LA and you'll find some majorly rude asses, far worse than a Japanese girl who has fallen asleep on a train after working a 15 hour shift. Talk about the 'Ugly American'....

wareware nipponjin!

back to reality however, this isnt just restricted to major populations like Tokyo or Oosaka. Ive seen this in Fukushima, Aomori, Miyagi, Akita, Okinawa and Hokkaido.

As most intelligent people will already know, there are kind people and rude people and a bunch of in-betweeners in every country. But I tell you one thing, if someone tried to drag a young girl into a train bathroom to rape her (Toyama incident) in Canada (or the US I am sure), the guy would get the beating of a lifetime by most every passenger on the train and likely wouldnt live through it.

tell me again xmug how great it is here compared to other countries. It makes me chuckle.

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they have probably been learning their manners from the men of this country

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I like train-riding in Japan. All of the people sleeps, while i'm awake and enjoy the silence. No talking on phones, no music, no trash talking... Kind of paradise...

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There is a word for crass obnoxious female cell phone users - "Keitai banshee"

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"Some people deserve a beating, and these two oyajis are in front lines for some heave dose of beat down."

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criticisms might be construed as sexual harassment

Slovenly female behavior isn't? Give it like a woman; take it like a man. ...or become a herbivore.

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It's give it when woman, and give it when man. I think it is a sad state of affairs that they really arent aware of others, because from where most high schoolers, who are expected to be grown up self efficient adults in 3 years and counting, find what is natural to us all, they're not looking at your already established state of affairs, they are searching. Actually, though, giving it ought to be specific, and directed. So they arent giving either. Its a pity they couldnt make treksuits more fashionable? You know, I remember when younger specifically having to constantly concentrate on keeping my legs together. It seemed almost natural to spread 'em :D Now my thigh muscles are great! I had no idea the train rides were like this, as if it were common!

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“Especially when they wear skirts, it’s a problem of where to direct your eyes,”

Actually, no it's not. It's only a "problem" if you have that type of issue to begin with.

Sports commentator Takenori Emoto, 61, meanwhile, is unhappy over women’s shrill voices.

This, on the other hand, is a legitimate complaint. Between the shrill voices of females at play which grates on your nevers, or that damn voice from females at work making you think your dealing with a 10 year old girl with a frog in her throat, it's nice to hear just a plain normal voice.

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Im just shocked at Japanese behavior period. I cannot understand where the stereotype of "mild mannered Japanese society" comes from. People here knock each other over, shove each other, yell at each other, spit, pick noses, cough in each others faces, sneeze in each others faces, dont bathe, stare, ignore, and a host of other ill mannered behaviors not the least of which includes waltzing out of bathroom stalls and sashaying past bathroom sinks where they cant be troubled to WASH THEIR HANDS after wiping!!!

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Japanese men complaining about "slovenly behaviour"? Haha! That's a good one! The same Japanese men who urinate and spit in the streets? The same Japanese men who vomit on the train platform after a beer or two? The same Japanese men whose table manners are so revolting I dread having to sit next to them in the cafeteria? Spare me!

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Ah but what happens when anyone can look at you anywhere and any time they choose including in the past? Impossible? Well since the particle theory of physics was destroyed by a Japanese experiment a few years ago, and these sorts of ideas are now in vogue, perhaps we will very soon be able to see exactly what Mr Yoneyama has been up to every second of his life. After all what is a ghost except an accidental replaying of the past and everything accidental people witness soon becomes controllable. Mr Yoneyama will need more than an umbrella to cover his embarrassment, as will all of us. I have one thing I do agree with him on though makeup is wrong and is simply a form of lying, women shouldn't wear make-up and neither should men.

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Thank you Mayuki...you said what I was thinking. These guys do far worse than any Japanese women. Why haven't they mentioned the guy on the train platform shaving with an electric razor or the guys deep drilling in their noses and then grabbing the train handles.

I do agreed that girls in skirts should be aware of their legs being open enough for someone to see their underwear. Or just wear bloomers. I close my legs in skirts but the umbrella between their legs in a pair of pants is fine. Dirty minded grandpas.

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Mayuki, you took the words right out of my mouth! Japanese men - most particularly those over 45 - are generally among the most uncivilised people when it comes to manners in public...and believe me, I've seen shocking manners in many other countries too! What I hate most is the old fellas of 60 odd who feel it is OK to light up and smoke in non-smoking tables; spitting in swimming pools; staring at people with aggressive looks on their faces. Of course, there are exceptions.

Young Japanese women - and young men in general too - in my opinion have manners that put old Japanese men to shame. They should be educating elderly Japanese how to behave.

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"spitting in swimming pools" What was the movie I saw where a guy in a public pool spit out a band-aid? I suppose linking polite behavior to generally good public hygiene would move its success on a little more. All that nose picking in public transportation can't be too good for the bacteria count.

"waltzing out of bathroom stalls and sashaying past bathroom sinks where they cant be troubled to WASH THEIR HANDS after wiping!!!"

How can we be so sure they are wiping? Knowing that men do not wash their own underwear, levels of common decent hygiene would have no reliable lower limit if it were not for frauen.

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Wow.... this article has certainly jumped the shark, hasn't it?

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Its a simple act of being bored. There's absolutely nothing for them to do to enjoy themselves, no jobs to improve themselves and almost no hope for any future beyond having kids. Now whose fault is this? LDP/DPJ or the society as a whole?

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Japanese women in their twenties and thirties are scary - small wonder that many Japanese young men seem to be giving them a miss and becoming herbivorous. They are loud, selfish and downright rude, and their anti-social behaviour on trains, applying makeup like they were in the abthroom, is disgusting. Sad to see Japan changing for the worse.

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i've never understood the hatred about women putting on make-up on trains. have a little heart. women are expected to look beautiful, but are expected to insert extra hours into the day in order to do so. i'd hate to have to lose an hour of sleep every day in order to make myself more acceptable to society. sure, you can say its their choice, but remember that beauty is one of the few things that can open doors for women in this country

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I think I agree with the sentiment here that Japanese men are, for the most part are Selfish, rude, unmannered, pretentious little piss ants, like that loud Chihuahua at the park. The feeling is something I have a hard time describing. There is no way a Japanese male could criticize the ladies here in society about social manners. And please before you get on my case for “generalizing” I said for the most part, not all. No wonder it's so easy for a "gaijin" to find a nice lady (not from roppongi) to date.

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The behaviour of the typical Japanese of either sex on public transport is still far far better than in the UK. The lack of consideration for others here, especially in London, is appalling. It's still a joy to travel round Japan.

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Way to go promoting misogyny, JT

There is the most disgusting article I've seen, ever. Shame on you.

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The rise of rudness is worldwide. Manners are not being taught anymore.

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i've never understood the hatred about women putting on make-up on trains. have a little heart. women are expected to look beautiful, but are expected to insert extra hours into the day in order to do so.

Griff, if you follow that logic, what's to prevent people from peeing on the floor of the train? Personal ablutions and bodily functions are supposed to be done in PRIVATE. And moonbeams, rather than b**ch over a "disgusting article," perhaps you should take the trouble to observe some of the disgusting behavior that prompted it to be written in the first place.

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Putting on makeup is nothing like peeing. If it were, I could only imagine how awkward it would be to get your makeup done professionally.

I too have never understood the outrage over women doing makeup on the train. Unless she's splashing powder on you or spritzing you with scent or hairspray, it does NOT infringe on your space, and it's hardly "gross" to watch. And it's pretty rich that this is coming from the same people who stumble drunkenly onto the trains, leer, spit in the station, reek of alcohol, and pick their noses in marathon sessions (and then touch things). Meanwhile I get the stinkeye from them when I put on some chapstick?? Come on. Apples and oranges. These men would benefit from that whole noticing the log in your own eye before pointing out the speck in someone else's.

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Unless she's splashing powder on you or spritzing you with scent or hairspray, it does NOT infringe on your space, and it's hardly "gross" to watch.

No, sorry, I disagree. There used to be a social covenant that we dress, wash, eliminate, hold telephone conversations (YESSS!!!), etc., in private. It's either all or nothing, because once the walls come down, they start going down everywhere and things go from bad to worse. People are making unauthorized incursions into the territory of others. It's unacceptable. And I tell them off every chance I get, by the way. I asked the police and they told me as long as I don't threaten or insult, it's within my rights to address strangers about public behavior I find objectionable. If they want to gather their make-up implements and look for another seat, they are welcome to do so.

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people only object to telephone conversations because they can't hear the other half of the conversation. thus, their desire to eavesdrop is left unsatisfied.

anyway, considering the other things we see in public on a daily basis, i still find the uproar about women putting on make-up to reek of thinly veiled sexism. yes, you must look beautiful, no i will no make any allowances in order to allow you to become so...

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Ha! I'll try to care about this affont to decorum that the poor, hapless "older men" are forced to endure the next time I see all those older men on the crowded hibya line with a finger stuck into ear or nose to the 2nd knuckle rooting around for some elusive, crusty booger - right in front of everyone.

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This is a ridiculous, ridiculous article. The author should be ashamed for purporting something like this as "news."

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Let's just say that older Japanese men are NOT entitled to ranting about the behaviour of young women here. As for idiots complaining that applying makeup in the train... well a) it is not the same as "peeing", b) have a heart will you, why do you need to force them to get an hour earlier just so that they can "look beautiful"? Sexist..

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Yeah, I completely understand these old men. Who do these young women think they are, thinking they can "do what they want", "have rights", and "fall asleep on the train without having perverts look up their skirts". They should all be locked in towers, and definitely not be educated. Put them back in their place, oyaji-san.

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Its about time Japanese woman begin to find their voice and step out of their repression by Japanese men. Women in that culture are 2nd class citizen's inspite of their 1st world status. Their culture presents a mask of honor but behind it is lies. They arent the culture of honor as they pretend to be. Men are known for groping of young school girls on public transportation so school girl only train cars were created. There some honor and respect for you!

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