lifestyle

Busty blood drive anime girl artwork not recognized as sexual harassment by Japanese Red Cross

64 Comments
By Casey Baseel, SoraNews24

The Japanese Red Cross society is currently in the middle of a blood drive promotional partnership with manga series "Uzaki-chan Wants to Hang Out." Similarly to previous anime tie-ups the organization has done, volunteers who donate blood during the promotion will receive a plastic clear file (pictured above) with character artwork which is also being used on posters publicizing the offer and directing interested parties to nearby donation centers.

However, earlier this week a debate broke out, primarily in English-language Twitter posts, about whether the illustration of the series’ title character, college student Uzaki Hana, is appropriate for a mainstream medical organization to be using. "Uzaki-chan Wants to Hang Out" is not an erotic or sexually explicit series, but Uzaki is undeniably busty, and while the artwork being used by the Japanese Red Cross Society doesn’t show Uzaki dressed in a revealing outfit, her part-time job’s waitress uniform is quite tight-fitting in the chest area.

With the increased attention the online debate has brought to the artwork, Japan’s J News spoke with a PR representative from the Japanese Red Cross Society, asking for the organization’s stance on the matter, and got the following response:

“This promotional campaign is merely providing a novelty gift to people who are kind enough to cooperate with our blood drive, and we do not recognize it as a form of sexual harassment. We have previously received support from numerous anime series in promoting blood drives, and these partnerships have been well-received and increased the amount of blood that was donated. In regards to opinions about the current promotion, we are listening to them sincerely, and will take them into consideration for future activities.”

So it doesn’t look like the Japanese Red Cross Society is going to cancel the partnership or stop offering donors the clear files, which will be available until the end of the month. It also sounds like the second Uzaki-chan blood drive partnership, which kicks off in February, is still on the schedule.

Source: J Cast News via Livedoor News via Otakomu

Read more stories from SoraNews24.

-- Heading to Comiket this year? Be sure to donate blood for a special gift!

-- The Japanese government made an idol anime, and it literally wants your blood【Video】

-- Yamagata blood donor out for blood, headbutts Red Cross staff after “waiting forever” in line

© SoraNews24

©2019 GPlusMedia Inc.

64 Comments
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Ya know, if they were gonna do an anime tie in, why didn’t they do it with Hataraku Saibou (Cells at Work). The main character is literally a cute anthropomorphized red blood cell.

4 ( +5 / -1 )

In what way would giving out promo material featuring this character be seen as "harassment"? To me it just looks like another dumb anime character drawn by a 14 year-old. If they try and give you this 'gift' you can just say no.

11 ( +11 / -0 )

Cannot see how this is “harassment”, tacky or tasteless possibly, depending on your view.

9 ( +9 / -0 )

If they mean having to look at puerile sexist crap like this every day starts to get on your nerves so badly that it can feel like harassment, then yes, I understand and agree.

Whether or not it meets the legal definition of sexual harassment, I can't say. But I do think it would be hard to prove that the existence of a single cartoon image of a busty woman makes a workplace is hostile to the point where it effects one's ability to do one's job.

Which honestly makes a point in and of itself - why do we have to put up with childish crap like this? Why don't people get why women are sick and tired of their image being distorted and used as a sexist trope and just stop on their own. Grow up and stop behaving like Beavis and Butthead.

0 ( +11 / -11 )

I think that sexual harassment requires a person doing the harassing and a person being harassed.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Not news, just vaguely Oedipal, a/w/a tasteless and voyeuristic.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Whaaah, whaaah, whaaah...OMG. Get a JOB.

Too much time on hand to COMPLAIN about everything.

3 ( +7 / -4 )

It's degrading to women. Whether degrading to women qualifies as "sexual harassment" I couldn't say.

(apologies if this is just repeating what girl in Tokyo said)

Would they use a male cartoon with a huge bulge in his jeans halfway down to one knee? Somehow I don't think so.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

girl_in_tokyo:

I read your comment and had another look at this 'artwork' and I get what annoys you about it. To me it still doesn't meet the definition of harassment but it is cliched, reductive and stupid. It's hard to believe that we're dealing with a conscious marketing decision by a (presumably) sober and respectable health organization to have themselves represented by an image that seems to have literally jumped off a hentai page for teenagers.

1 ( +6 / -5 )

IT'S JUST A DRAWING

5 ( +9 / -4 )

If it was a musclebound man in a tight shirt, would this even be in the news?

5 ( +7 / -2 )

@kohakuebisu

Would they use a male cartoon with a huge bulge in his jeans halfway down to one knee? Somehow I don't think so.

That's comparing apples to bananas.

8 ( +10 / -2 )

Big breasts are great. Most men like them and many women wish they had them and many pay for them.

Storm in a g cup.

-1 ( +8 / -9 )

Maybe those breasts are more like blood banks? Can't say the anime appeals to me, nor does it make me want to donate my blood which would probably not matter, because the only time I did try decades ago, they refused my gift since I was from the UK.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Interesting that before reading this article featuring the overly-pneumatic Uzaki-chan, I had just read another Lifestyle article "6 Modern Women redifining what it means to be Japanese".

Uzaki-chan - a non-real character of course - couldn't be further from cultivating a positive image of modern Japanese womenhood.

A 1000+ other popular anime / manga images could have been chosen if the intent was to appear cool and attract attention to a socially valuable promotion.

Guarantee (without proof) that the selection committee were all men or all the "power" was the responsibility of men.

RE-defining what it means to be a women is not on their minds let alone agenda.

They just don't get it.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

sourpussToday 12:41 pm JST

If it was a musclebound man in a tight shirt, would this even be in the news?

sourpussToday 12:43 pm JST

@kohakuebisu

Would they use a male cartoon with a huge bulge in his jeans halfway down to one knee? Somehow I don't think so.

He is right.

The equivalency of this turned around to target men would be if there were posters put all over the place that featured anime men with outrageously large bulges in positions that obviously mean to make them look submissive, and if men who were much larger and stronger quite often came up to other men and said something to the effect of, "wow you have a great buldge!" in order to purposely intimidate and sexually harass.

In other words, if gay men treated straight men the way straight men often treat straight women, you might have a better idea of how women feel about this.

When I was younger, hardly a week went by without some guy randomly walking up to me and making lewd comments or gestures at me about my breasts. Now that I'm much older, it has cut back to once every few months. This is a relief.

So, sourpuss, now that you know that women are often sexually harassed by men who think it is acceptable, funny, or feel justified in openly sexually objectifying women, does that make you understand why a women wouldn't like these posters? As it would be a continual reminder of how they feel when they are similarly sexually objectified?

And knowing the discomfort, irritation, and annoyance those posters can cause women, does that help you to have sympathy for women, and will you be more understanding in that regard in the future?

-5 ( +3 / -8 )

Would they use a male cartoon with a huge bulge in his jeans halfway down to one knee? Somehow I don't think so.

That's comparing apples to bananas.

Indeed, that is not a valid comparison. It's not like they are showing a camel toe, or the outline of her nipples. They're not even showing any cleavage.

Yeah, she has a big chest; so what? So if they use a female cartoon character, she must be flat chested?

1 ( +4 / -3 )

"primarily on English language twitter posts" Yeah, pretty much what I expected.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

PS If the "English language twitter" posters ever saw what is typically shown in Japanese manga, they would flip out. And it has been really toned down compared to the stuff they showed in comics when I was a kid in the 80s. These really X rated comics were read by junior high boys and high school boys. You definitely couldn't have sold those in the US or other parts of the English speaking world. Not to mention what they used to show on late night TV. This is Japan, which has never been Christianized, and doesn't have such a prude attitude towards the human body.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

You know when'sall well when prude's complain about a well rounded cartoon.

Bustting with good art work. ..

Theres nothing wrong with it !!

Please give blood and save a life .

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Lot of fuss about nothing, as so often these days. People trying to look for opportunities to take offence. Get a life, get a real job, or worry about something that really matters. First world problem much!

5 ( +8 / -3 )

@girl_in_tokyoToday 01:06 pm JST

Has the possibility of NOT assuming that the person who talks about your body is "purposely intimidating and sexually harassing" occurred to you? It's not like you could actually read his mind, so while it is your freedom to react negatively to a comment, what is your objective basis for deciding he "purposely" intimidated you?

Certainly, I don't think a man will automatically react to "Wow you have a great (presumably muscular) bulge" negatively.

0 ( +5 / -5 )

Would they use a male cartoon with a huge bulge in his jeans halfway down to one knee? Somehow I don't think so.

Of course not. Unlike a busty female, a male’s bulge rarely works as a selling tool. The whole idea of marketing and sales is to use things that will appeal to their target demographic. Busty women appeal to a very wide range of people on a level to affect sales. A bulgy man isn’t going to do the same for most demographics.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

girl_in_tokyo

You didn't comment on my apples and bananas joke. I am deeply offended. Lol

Seriously though, men are objectified all the time. Boy bands, ikemen stuff, muscleman shaved ice, gay manga for straight women, muscle this, muscle that. And men are harassed too. I've been harassed and groped by gay men and straight women alike. Of course, if any of the women that groped me had been someone I was attracted to, I wouldn't have considered it groping. Likewise if I

On the other hand some guys don't haveshort guys get completely ignored by women and talked about behind their back. And scrawny guys too. And ugly guys are made fun of. And guys with bad fashion sense. Guys with a small banana. Guys with bad breath can't even talk to women. Guys with bad skin. Bald guys . Paunchy guys. Guys with naturally bad BO. Guys with dandruff. Guys who aren't funny. Low-income guys. Guys who aren't masculine enough. Guys who aren't good at taking control of the situation. Wishy-washy guys. Guys who were bullied. Shy guys. Creepy guys. Geeky guys. Guys with a high voice. Guys who aren't smart. Guys who walk funny. Clutzy guys.

These guys have to go through life surrounded by images of the men they wish they were. They have to go through life surrounded by women who belittle and ignore them, and men who seem to have it all. They have to go through life knowing that they are the losers; the ones who will never be admired for their muscles, their perfect face, their intellect, their witty repartee. The closest they will ever get to a woman is... a poster.

Sooo, now that we know everything about each other (we have shared groping records after all), perhaps we can have a mutual understanding to take what the other person says with a grain of salt.

3 ( +3 / -0 )

She is just "kawai" (かわいい).

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

“That's the essence of advertising! Big t#ts! Threateningly. Big. T#ts!”

George Carlin.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

Kazuaki ShimazakiToday 02:26 pm JST

@girl_in_tokyoToday 01:06 pm JST

Has the possibility of NOT assuming that the person who talks about your body is "purposely intimidating and sexually harassing" occurred to you? It's not like you could actually read his mind, so while it is your freedom to react negatively to a comment, what is your objective basis for deciding he "purposely" intimidated you?

When a man you don't know walks up to you on the street, stares at your breasts, and says "I love your big breasts" or "show me your tits" it's pretty clear his intention is sexual harassment. Also, when a man walks up to you and puts his hands out in front of him palms out, and makes as if he is going to grab your breasts, and then says "wow big boobs" it is likewise clear that he is purposely trying to intimidate and sexually harass.

I can't believe I just had to explain that to someone. I mean, am I expected to take this post seriously?

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

Seriously though, men are objectified all the time. Boy bands, ikemen stuff, muscleman shaved ice, gay manga for straight women, muscle this, muscle that.

Men are sexually objectified in a different way from women, and the effects on each are also different. E.g.,

These guys have to go through life surrounded by images of the men they wish they were. They have to go through life surrounded by women who belittle and ignore them, and men who seem to have it all. They have to go through life knowing that they are the losers; the ones who will never be admired for their muscles, their perfect face, their intellect, their witty repartee.

It sucks that men are made to feel bad about themselves. And it sucks that women are intimidated and made to feel like pieces of meat.

And men are harassed too. I've been harassed and groped by gay men and straight women alike. Of course, if any of the women that groped me had been someone I was attracted to, I wouldn't have considered it groping.

And in that you are very lucky. When women are groped we feel in mortal danger of being raped or even killed.

The closest they will ever get to a woman is... a poster.

What you seem to be saying is that men react to being rejected by women by turning their hurt into hate and aiming it at women in return for the harm they feel women are doing to them. That has been my personal experience as well - and it is not to be taken lightly, or seen as justifiable. It is misogyny.

Sooo, now that we know everything about each other (we have shared groping records after all), perhaps we can have a mutual understanding to take what the other person says with a grain of salt.

When I see comments that seem to make light of sexual objectification and/or try to justify it, I take that very seriously, because it is an attitude that needs to be stomped out.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Men are sexually objectified in a different way from women, and the effects on each are also different. E.g.,

What images do you want to see portrayed in manga, films, TV etc?

Is there any place for eye candy for men or women?

2 ( +2 / -0 )

I wouldn't call it sexual harassment, but as a woman I would feel pretty awkward being offered this as a thank you-gift...

2 ( +5 / -3 )

gokai-wo-... said -

"...This is Japan, which has never been Christianized, and doesn't have such a prude attitude towards the human body...."

Well never been christianized - that part's true.

Re the human form and prudes - well that's debatable. I seem to remember quite recently the artist Megumi Igarashi having a really tough time with the law - arrested multiple times - about her innocent genitalia atrworks including her infamous "vagina boat". And any number of other artists arrested for daring to show the human form, esp men unclothed in photographic exhibitions or books.

And the still now pixelation obssession set-in-law of peoples private parts on film, tv or video.

In this day and age, all seems pretty prudish to me.

And in the case at hand, the impossibly slim waisted gigantic boobed character Uzaki-chan, is somehow deemed the perfect match to attract people to donate blood.

Why? Are people that immature they need to be coaxed into performing a valuable service by a ridiculously busted cartoon.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

That's comparing apples to bananas

Melons to bananas surely ;)

Women's boobs and men's sausages are both external and in many cultures, bigger is better. If the male groin area got as much focus as women's boobs, with manga characters and every actor and male model being photoshopped to look massive, there would be a lot of men out there feeling insecure and stuffing socks down their pants or worse. Which is hilarious until its you, your brother, or your son.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

Justin Trudeau stuffed his trousers when he did blackface. Kind of the same thing.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

Over reacting about the smallest of things. Some people out here really are calling this sexual harassment or women degradation... Smh.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

Gals love breasts as much as guys do

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

@browny1 What you say is right for the present. That is why I said things have been "toned down" compared to the 80s or 90s, when you could get away with practically anything.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

How about the picture actually have a nurse holding a giant syringe?

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Incongrous ? Yes. Distasteful ? Perhaps. Sexual harassment ? Certainly not. If it attracts male donors, then by all means go for it. Isn't it akin to complaining about the portrayal of a GQ model for a Calvin Klein ad ? Average joe Taro Yamada throws a hissy fit whenever he goes underwear shopping because he sees a depiction of a chiseled male model. Advertising, for better or worse, sells. It should be obvious to whom the primary recipients of this "promotional campaign" and "novelty gift" is aimed at. The aforementioned Uzaki chan even goes so far as to "ridicule" your average male by saying "senpai" and asking whether he is afraid of needles. A cute, volumptious character who also questions your manhood ? A potent combination. If this is what it takes to motivate the average man-child who might buy into this, then so what ?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

I enjoy a bit of sexy anime characters now and then, but the massive boob characters are ridiculous. Just like this campaign.

1 ( +1 / -0 )

KentarogaijinToday 11:37 am JSTIT'S JUST A DRAWING

lolozo79Today 09:46 pm JSTIncongrous ? Yes. Distasteful ? Perhaps. Sexual harassment ? Certainly not. If it attracts male donors, then by all means go for it. Isn't it akin to complaining about the portrayal of a GQ model for a Calvin Klein ad ? Average joe Taro Yamada throws a hissy fit whenever he goes underwear shopping because he sees a depiction of a chiseled male model. Advertising, for better or worse, sells. It should be obvious to whom the primary recipients of this "promotional campaign" and "novelty gift" is aimed at.

Breasts are part of what makes women, women. Anybody who values females just by their melons (real or cartoon) is pretty dumb anyway. As a male I feel sexual attraction too but some people need to get their heads out of the gutter. This is just a cartoon, erotic I dunno. You could take it any way you want to but I don't think this is sexual harassment, just dumb. Some 'men' need to grow up.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I guess she is hanging out.

My thoughts are the picture is degrading to some degree and inane.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

What images do you want to see portrayed in manga, films, TV etc? 

Is there any place for eye candy for men or women?

i hope society matures to the point where men will not need women to be portrayed as ditzy, submissive, in need of rescue, or have their body parts malproportioned in order to think they are sexy.

I’d like men to respect women while we mutually enjoy one another as equals.

But I doubt that will ever happen. Just look at the caliber of some the comments here.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

I’d like men to respect women while we mutually enjoy one another as equals.

Of course guys would like gals to inspect their "personality" as mutual as they like to inspect theirs

0 ( +0 / -0 )

lostrune2Today  10:17 am JST

Of course guys would like gals to inspect their "personality" as mutual as they like to inspect theirs

I’m sorry, but what do you mean by “inspect their personality”?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

i hope society matures to the point where men will not need women to be portrayed as ditzy, submissive, in need of rescue, or have their body parts malproportioned in order to think they are sexy.

I’d like men to respect women while we mutually enjoy one another as equals.

One way to start is to get rid of those vocal idol/pop tart groups as well as those 'beauty pageants'. They are nothing but a money-stealer and a source of the jollies for perverts.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@girl_in_tokyoOct. 25 03:13 pm JST

Yes, you have to explain it. Because here's how a man actually would imagine himself dealing with these situations, had he been a woman.

 "I love your big breasts"

"Why, thank you." or "You won't be as enamored if you have to carry them around 24 hours a day..."

"show me your tits"

"If you show me or D-" or "No."

"wow big boobs" while making groping hand-motions

Well, if imagining it makes him happy, it is totally harmless. I'll be more concerned if males don't feel this way when seeing me, because it'll imply I'm completely unattractive to their instincts. Let him be.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Of course guys would like gals to inspect their "personality" as mutual as they like to inspect theirs

I’m sorry, but what do you mean by “inspect their personality”?

http://www.hngn.com/articles/149520/20151111/what-breast-shape-size-indicate-womans-personality.htm

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Kazuaki ShimazakiToday 01:57 pm JST

Yes, you have to explain it. Because here's how a man actually would imagine himself dealing with these situations, had he been a woman.

 "I love your big breasts"

"Why, thank you." or "You won't be as enamored if you have to carry them around 24 hours a day..."

"show me your tits"

"If you show me or D-" or "No."

"wow big boobs" while making groping hand-motions

Well, if imagining it makes him happy, it is totally harmless. I'll be more concerned if males don't feel this way when seeing me, because it'll imply I'm completely unattractive to their instincts. Let him be.

If anyone ever doubted misogyny existed, all they have to do is read this.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

 "I love your big breasts"

Mind your own d@mn business

"show me your tits"

Go to hell.

"wow big boobs" while making groping hand-motions

!?SLAP

As for the picture, as a female, I don't think it's sexual harassment. It's just plain stoopid. It certainly wouldn't make me want to give blood, even if they would take my tainted UK blood.

When I gave in the past, before BSE raised its ugly head, I gave because it was the right thing to do, not because I was titillated by some grotesquely exaggerated cartoon, and not because I was taunted by some misogynistic moron accusing me of being afraid of needles.

And the clear file would be a put-off, not a perk.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

well said, @cleo. i agree. it,s just plain “stoopid”. no need to demonize men like @girl_in_tokyo does all the time. not everything comes down to “men vs women” - fight.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

The character seems to be mostly toothless, and is missing a nose. Perhaps there is dietary problem?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

When a man you don't know walks up to you on the street, stares at your breasts, and says "I love your big breasts" or "show me your tits" it's pretty clear his intention is sexual harassment. Also, when a man walks up to you and puts his hands out in front of him palms out, and makes as if he is going to grab your breasts, and then says "wow big boobs" it is likewise clear that he is purposely trying to intimidate and sexually harass.

cleoOct. 26 08:35 pm JST "I love your big breasts"

Mind your own d@mn business

"show me your tits"

Go to hell.

"wow big boobs" while making groping hand-motions

!?SLAP

As for the picture, as a female, I don't think it's sexual harassment. It's just plain stooped.

Once again, this picture is just plain STOOOPID. Anybody who values a woman over something like that but not her personality is just an immature idiot. And anyone who gropes the melons, gives twisters or grabs the panama is a harasser and assaulter. If a guy can't treat a woman with dignity then he doesn't deserve one. If a guy can't see beyond her T & A then he needs to go back to the 5th grade.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

rcchOct. 27 02:36 pm JST

well said, @cleo. i agree. it,s just plain “stoopid”. no need to demonize men like @girl_in_tokyo does all the time. not everything comes down to “men vs women” - fight.

You have an interesting definition of "demonize".

What I did was ask that men treat women as equals, with dignity and respect. If you find that to be difficult, then what does that say about you?

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

You have an interesting definition of "demonize".

It's pretty accurate. You are quick to criticize men, never a positive comment.

I personally argue for women's rights regularly, except when I talk to you, I have to do the opposite to reign in your extremism.

I mean look a what you are saying to Cleo, another woman:

If you find [men treat women as equals] to be difficult, then what does that say about you?

Cleo is a woman, she can't find men treating women as equals difficult, as she's not a man to have a difficult time treating women as equals.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

StrangerlandOct. 28 08:00 pm JST

It's pretty accurate. You are quick to criticize men, never a positive comment.

I critisize men who behave badly. Unless you believe all men behave badly, then I do not critisize all men; only the ones who deserve it.

I personally argue for women's rights regularly, except when I talk to you, I have to do the opposite to reign in your extremism.

Usually when we disagree it's because your position on any accusation of sexual harassment is, "she might be lying so we cannot judge" while mine is "take every accusation seriously and investigate". I do not see how that position is extreme.

I mean look a what you are saying to Cleo, another woman:

If you find [men treat women as equals] to be difficult, then what does that say about you?

Cleo is a woman, she can't find men treating women as equals difficult, as she's not a man to have a difficult time treating women as equals

What is your point, here? First of all, women can be misogynistic just as much as men can. Secondly, I don't look at whether someone is male or female; I react to the comment itself. I don't know the context of this, but to me it looks like I didn't realize the poster was female when I replied.

Did you actually go back through a bunch of posts to find that? The one time I replied to a woman without realizing it was a comment from a woman? I bet you had to look long and hard for that one. Talk about a waste of time better spent elsewhere.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

I critisize men who behave badly. Unless you believe all men behave badly, then I do not critisize all men; only the ones who deserve it.

Ok, you reiterated what I said about you, and added in something about criticizing all men, which was nothing I ever claimed. But as I said, you're quick to criticize, never a positive comment.

Usually when we disagree it's because your position on any accusation of sexual harassment is, "she might be lying so we cannot judge"

Um yeah, due process. Are you suggest that anyone, in this case women, but in general, anyone at all, should be believed at face value with no supporting evidence?

mine is "take every accusation seriously and investigate".

You mean, you reserve judgement pending investigation? How is that any different from what I'm saying, other than re-wording it?

I do not see how that position is extreme.

Do you believe that women should be believed outright, or that judgement should be reserved pending investigation? You've indicated both, so until you clarify which (since they cannot exist together), I'm not sure which position you are referring to.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

excuse me, a small clarification: @Strangerland , you misunderstood a little. i agreed with @cleo. ( two different comments ).

@girl_in_tokyo you don,t need to worry, you didn,t replied to a woman. to explain my previous comment, i think that you (even if it,s not your intention) create extreme divisions between men and women. hence my comment: "not everything comes down to “men vs women”.

nobody here supports violence/abuse against women ( duh ), and like i said, i agree with what cleo said and i think that the way they approached that campaign was just st-pid, nothing more, and we shouldn,t make a big deal out of it. but the thing is, nowadays we live in a world where people push for PCness, all the time. and you, in any gender related article/topic, are always there, ready to "fight". sure, you want to "teach some lessons" to those who deserve it, but pretty much every time you,re just attacking men who just happen to say "this is normal" or "i,m gonna wait for proof" or "women are not supposed to be angels all the time, ex. they can lie" (these are reasonable comments, because, again, of course nobody here wants women to be abused (in any way)), so what you do is accusing them of victim blaming and misogyny and tell stories and experiences that portray men as "bad". and, i get the feeling that, if it was up to you, men couldn,t even say something nice to an attractice woman. you want us to be in a perfect bubble, 100% controlled, but that would be unnatural, it,d go against nature, men are supposed to be attracted to women. again, people nowadays are too sensitive, and i,m still a really young guy so it feels weird to say that but i get the feeling that the naturalness of things is not like it was before.

Usually when we disagree it's because your position on any accusation of sexual harassment is, "she might be lying so we cannot judge" while mine is "take every accusation seriously and investigate". I do not see how that position is extreme

i talked about this before and i remember i said something like "sometimes women lie about sexual harassment and that is one of the reasons why men are told to be careful in the train with unwanted touching", and you immediately judged me. when i say the word "lie", i don,t mean completely making it up. i mean that they can distort the truth. which already happened and it will keep happening but you don,t want anybody to say it because it ruins your narrative. i, on the other hand, like to explore all the possibilities, depending on the case.

we can all get along and discuss things in a reasonable way. reasonable being a key word here.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

. . . to an attractiVe woman . . . *

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StrangerlandOct. 30 09:17 am JSTOk, you reiterated what I said about you, and added in something about criticizing all men, which was nothing I ever claimed. But as I said, you're quick to criticize, never a positive comment.

Your objection seems to be that I never say anything nice about men. But I ask you, why would I, in the context of a news story about sexual assault, pause in my criticism of the perpetrator in order to praise men who do not assault women? By that standard, should people who are commenting in the context of a robbery stop and praise the people who aren't thieves?

Or maybe you are objecting to the fact that the majority of my comments appear on stories about sexual assault. To that, I say yes - you are exactly right. I have read this site for many years, but was never an avid commenter until maybe six to ten months ago, when I happened to look at the comments one day and noticed that they were full of misogynistic commentary whenever the topic was sexual assault. And since there are hardly any women posting here, those comments mostly went unchallenged. Yes, it is true that there are a good number of male commenters here who do speak up for women (thank you!) but I felt a female voice was lacking. So here I am, and I am not sorry if my presence makes it uncomfortable for the men here who continually make negative comments about women.

Um yeah, due process.

Let's first be clear about what "due process" actually means. It is a legal term meaning "the guarantee that the government shall not take a person's life, liberty, or property without due process of law." This involves "procedural due process", which "requires fairness in the methods used to deprive a person of life, liberty or property", while "substantive due process" requires valid governmental justification for taking a person's life' liberty or property." (https://definitions.uslegal.com/d/due-process/)

Even though the laws and procedures may vary from country to country, due process generally means that courts are obligated to follow certain procedures of law when putting someone on trial for a crime that will result in their being jailed or fined. Examples of this include the right to representation, the right to a trial, the right to appeal, and so on.

But what you seem to mean by "due process" is "it's not fair for people to form an opinion about guilt or innocence before a trial has been completed."

Are you suggest that anyone, in this case women, but in general, anyone at all, should be believed at face value with no supporting evidence?

You mean, you reserve judgement pending investigation? How is that any different from what I'm saying, other than re-wording it?

I could ask you the same thing in return. Do you mean we should not believe any accusation, from any person, before the trial is over? You will reserve judgment and not form any personal opinion in regards to the truth or falsity of any given accusation before all evidence has been presented and a judge and jury has rendered a decision?

Frankly, I doubt that very much. People form opinions pretty much immediately upon hearing the details of a crime. We may later change those opinions when more evidence is presented or when the judge rules, but no one ever actually waits patiently until legal due process by the courts is carried out in order to form an opinion.

I could also point out that many of the men here, yourself included on occasion, will immediately start to publicly talk about how a woman must be lying, even though there has been no “due process” to determine that she did, indeed, lie.

It seems some people are quite willing and ready to form an opinion about the honesty of the accuser, but complain vociferously when an opinion is formed about the honesty of the suspect.

Clearly, that is a bias.

Do you believe that women should be believed outright, or that judgement should be reserved pending investigation? You've indicated both, so until you clarify which (since they cannot exist together), I'm not sure which position you are referring to.

The police are under obligation to take all reports of crime seriously, and at face value, and then investigate that crime in order to gather evidence to determine whether there is enough evidence to arrest the suspect and hold them for trial.

Courts are legally obligated to follow due process in order to determine guilt or innocence. People, however, are free to form personal opinions without the obligation to wait until the trial is over.

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@rcch

@girl_in_tokyo you don,t need to worry, you didn,t replied to a woman. to explain my previous comment, i think that you (even if it,s not your intention) create extreme divisions between men and women. hence my comment: "not everything comes down to “men vs women”.

When it comes to sexual assault and other violence against women, that is, unfortunately, not the case. Misogyny is very real, and that does indeed boil down to "men vs women".

nobody here supports violence/abuse against women ( duh ), and like i said, i agree with what cleo said and i think that the way they approached that campaign was just st-pid, nothing more, and we shouldn,t make a big deal out of it.

I actually agree with you. I don't think that poster is a "big deal" in the sense that the Red Cross should be sued for sexual harassment or otherwise censured in some way. However, such gross depictions of women are concerning. As I said, it becomes very tiresome and annoying when you go though life continually being reminded that a lot of men view women in the way that poster is drawn. I do not think there should be restrictions or censorship of such images. I just wish that people would take women's feelings into consideration and stop of their own accord.

but the thing is, nowadays we live in a world where people push for PCness, all the time. and you, in any gender related article/topic, are always there, ready to "fight". sure, you want to "teach some lessons" to those who deserve it, but pretty much every time you,re just attacking men who just happen to say "this is normal" or "i,m gonna wait for proof" or "women are not supposed to be angels all the time, ex. they can lie" (these are reasonable comments, because, again, of course nobody here wants women to be abused (in any way)), so what you do is accusing them of victim blaming and misogyny and tell stories and experiences that portray men as "bad".

You need to make up your mind. Am I trying to teach lessons to people who deserve it, or am I just attacking all men, everywhere, and accusing all men of being horrible? It can't be both.

i get the feeling that, if it was up to you, men couldn,t even say something nice to an attractice woman.

That depends on exactly what you mean by "say something nice to an attractive woman." For example, there is no issue at all with a man telling his wife she looks sexy, or a man telling a female friend or acquaintance that he likes her outfit or her new haircut.

But if you mean a man commenting on the sexual attractiveness of a completely random stranger on the street, that is called "catcalling" for a reason.

Context is everything. And I would hope that most men are socially aware enough to understand when, where, to whom, and what kind of compliment is appropriate.

If you are ever unsure as to whether a compliment is appropriate or not, I would advise erring on the side of caution so as not to make a woman upset or uncomfortable.

you want us to be in a perfect bubble, 100% controlled, but that would be unnatural, it,d go against nature, men are supposed to be attracted to women. again, people nowadays are too sensitive, and i,m still a really young guy so it feels weird to say that but i get the feeling that the naturalness of things is not like it was before.

Yes, it is natural for men to be attracted to women, just as it is natural for women to be attracted to men.

However, is it really "natural" for men to openly express their attraction to a woman directly by commenting on her sexual attractiveness to him? Or is this just something men do because they want to, regardless of how the woman feels? As for women being "too sensitive" are men not obligated to take women's feelings into consideration, or should they be allowed to say anything they want, just because they feel like t?

And who are you to judge whether or not someone is "too sensitive"? This is entirely subjective due to personal preferences as well as tolerance for such talk. Isn't it up to the individual person to from and enforce their own boundaries? Why would you, and not the woman, get to decide that it is okay for you to make sexual comments to her?

i talked about this before and i remember i said something like "sometimes women lie about sexual harassment and that is one of the reasons why men are told to be careful in the train with unwanted touching", and you immediately judged me. when i say the word "lie", i don,t mean completely making it up. i mean that they can distort the truth. which already happened and it will keep happening but you don,t want anybody to say it because it ruins your narrative. i, on the other hand, like to explore all the possibilities, depending on the case.

Yes, I did call you out for suggesting that women lie about sexual assault. Do you know why? Presumably you read my reply. Presumably you thought about it. Yet here you speak as if you do not understand. That makes me question whether you really did read my reply or really did think about it.

You have the luxury of "exploring all the possibilities" because you aren't continually on alert wherever you go. You don't have to consider the danger of sitting or standing next to a man on the train out of fear he might grope you. You don't have to be paranoid every time someone brushes into you that the brush might suddenly turn into a grope. You don't have to tolerate gross and distorted depictions of your sexual organs on a daily basis, nor do you have to look at advertisements of your gender being put up for sale as items to be used for sexual purposes. You have not been catcalled, harassed, or groped so many times since the age of 12 that you could not possibly count all of them.

In other words, you aren't a woman, and as such you have very little idea of what women actually go through, or why we are so angry at being called liars and having our word doubted every single time we try to speak up about the things that happen to us.

A friend of mine just yesterday posted a story on Facebook about a man on the train here in Tokyo who rubbed on her going through the gate, then followed her onto the train and sat next to her. He leaned towards her and stared, trying to get her to make eye contact, then she noticed that he had his hand down his pants and was masturbating.

This scenario is not uncommon. These things happen to women constantly. It's a part of being female in this world. So can you understand why women get so pissed off when a guy who has the privilege of moving though the world unmolested remarks that he wants to "explore the possibility that women exaggerate or lie about sexual assault"?

we can all get along and discuss things in a reasonable way. reasonable being a key word here.

Is it really reasonable for you to ask me to "explore other possibilities" in light of the fact that all women, at some point in their life, and perhaps many many times in their life, will experience sexual harassment or sexual assault?

Give that a good long think.

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After reading the comments, I have to say that girl_in_tokyo is running circles around most of you guys. I don't agree with all of her assertions, but she is laying out her case rather well and demonstrating remarkable patience with some of the less than impressive responses. I wish I had time to debate with her. Guys, up your game!

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@commanteer

she ,s just portraying women as the "victims", and saying that misogyny is real and that men are a--holes. based on those two things, it,s not too difficult to "lay out her case". i agree with many of the things she said (i mean, of course, right?) and i still made my point even if she does not want to understand it ( whether it ,s because "she ,s a woman" or because of her personal experiences ). nobody ,s running circles on anybody.

@girl_in_tokyo

like i said, i agree with many of the things you say . . . the need to promote gender equality . . . the various (disgusting) abuses that many women take in daily life, etcetera.

You need to make up your mind. Am I trying to teach lessons to people who deserve it, or am I just attacking all men, everywhere, and accusing all men of being horrible? It can't be both.

what i meant is that you end up being very aggressive to other posters even if (initially) their comments were reasonable.

Is it really reasonable for you to ask me to "explore other possibilities" in light of the fact that all women, at some point in their life, and perhaps many many times in their life, will experience sexual harassment or sexual assault?

each case is different. you can name all the millions of cases, tell all the horrible stories, but in the end, it ,s all about truth and justice both for men and women.

Usually when we disagree it's because your position on any accusation of sexual harassment is, "she might be lying so we cannot judge" while mine is "take every accusation seriously and investigate

the two things are the same. saying that there,s the possibility that the woman is not being completely honest does not change our opinion that they have to take every accusation seriously. you just go around and, like i said, end up being aggressive to other posters. i usually just remind people that we need to be careful with quick judgements, because there were already cases in which the person is completely crucified and then we find out that he/she is innocent. that,s a very ugly thing.

to simplify what i was trying to say : in cases where we still don,t know what exactly happened, i,ll explore all possibilities (even if you get "pissed off") and wait for some solid evidence before i crucify someone. i hate liars and dishonesty. you will immediately side with women because most of the time they,re the victims (and you,re a woman). i,ll side with men AND women, in other words the truth. sorry for having some common sense. you don,t know me personally, but i,ll tell you that i,m VERY sensitive when it comes to women or children being abused in some way. you should talk with my mom, she knows. as for this article (because that,s where we are): that has nothing to do with sexual harassment. it ,s just stupid. it should ,ve ended there. this is Japan, after all. that poster is very Japanese. maybe Tokyo / Japan is not exactly the best place in the world for women. things are changing but slowly, unfortunately.

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Japan had shunga and it was enjoyed by women too https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/a64e/39222b89e6b8f5e98a822d00c2695f8cefa0.pdf I know a lot of Japanese women have told me that they're happy being appreciated for their looks, I had to throw my ideas from western feminism out when I got here because Japanese women literally told me "We don't want that." I've been to conferences and the non-Japanese feminists are screwing over little girls saying they want to be mummies. Even European countries like France have very different attitudes over things like this compared to say the UK and the US. I can't find it now but I saw a very enlightening reference regarding the Spa! mag ranking college girls on cash-for-access where a 'feminist' person with a Japanese name (Japanese national or Japanese-American etc, don't know) interviewed some girls that participate in it - they literally didn't care and she was stumped, they actually liked being able to make money in such a way.

About on average 1/3 of my female Japanese uni students just straight up say they don't want to work, they're literally so completely confident that they won't that when I ask them why they're not going any work in a business English class they'll say things "My husband will do all the work" Are you married? "No, but I'll get married." There was a survey that got the same result https://japantoday.com/category/national/1-in-3-japanese-women-want-to-be-housewives-poll

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^^ I wish they'd checked how much crossover there was between the people who want to be housewives and the people who hate sex because my partner said people have mentioned they want to get married and have kids but hate the idea of sex!? I've talked about this with my Japanese partner and we both agree that getting married and being a housewife does look attractive in comparison to the insanely long hours you have to put in at an office risking death in the process!

This is probably why it came out on English speaking twitter. Anyone can make an account and if Japanese people actually cared they could make a fuss over it, I wonder how many Japanese women actually cared about this. The focus is often on the most outspoken people at the expense of others. I also noticed a lot of the people kicking up a fuss were born and raised outside Japan and it could well be that they aren't even legally citizens of Japan (no dual nationality, remember) - who gets precedence here? We've only heard one side. I did also see some women who live in Japan and enjoy posting pictures of themselves push back against this kind of thing but they've been left out of this conversation which is a shame.

There are more important things to worry about at the end of the day and you cannot deny that women often get a raw deal but some feminists go after things disproportionally. Remember the scientist in the shirt with women on it? Some feminists said though to them it was tasteless, it was overblown https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/nov/18/feminism-rosetta-scientist-shirt-dapper-laughs-julien-blanc-inequality I remember reading a piece from one women from a developing country, Sri Lanka I think it was, and she was particularly caustic about the amount of effort being wasted on it when there are innumerably more pressing matters. This could easily end up like the 'grid girls' mess where some women lost out on jobs that paid well and they enjoyed, just because some people didn't like the idea of it yet actually seemed rather uninformed https://www.businessinsider.com/f1-grid-girls-have-lost-their-jobs-but-are-fighting-back-on-twitter-2018-2

It's also kind of ironic because these are the kind of people that will rail against advice telling women to dress demurely to avoid being sexual assaulted then go and do the exact same thing themselves by railing against a poster that has a women looking a certain way that apparently invites sexual assault (yet is fully clothed). Sexual assault in Japan is a problem but it's probably not the best use of time to make a fuss over this poster when you could be holding Shinzo Abe to account over his 'womenomics' and the police for not investigating sex crimes (reform of the complaints process ftw). If you just spout off on Twitter you're just preaching to the choir...

And men should be pitching in to get women equality, don't forget that. Make sure they're paid fairly, given proper maternity leave, no fired for having kids, given the opportunities they deserve (no 'benevolent sexism').

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