lifestyle

Europe's Muslims stand up to IS

40 Comments

The requested article has expired, and is no longer available. Any related articles, and user comments are shown below.

© 2014 AFP

©2021 GPlusMedia Inc.

40 Comments
Login to comment

Good to see Muslim's starting to publicly decry the terrorists. This needs to happen on a world level. This is the only way to enlighten that people that lack the intelligence to realize that just because many terrorists are Muslim does not mean all Muslim's are terrorists. The semi-silence from the Muslim community until this point has allowed this belief to foster.

5 ( +9 / -4 )

Too little, too late.

1 ( +11 / -10 )

Europe's Muslims stand up to IS

Good. Now get on the blower to your fellow Muslims in the middle east and get THEM to stand up instead of waiting for the western infidels to sort it out for you.

9 ( +10 / -1 )

The problem is, Islam is not a religion that promotes peace. It's a religion that states over and over that Allah is the only god, and that all that do not follow are 'infidels'. Harmony cannot exist between followers of other religions OR non-believers because, fundamentally, Islam incorporates more than just a set of beliefs. There's Sharia law, the garb & let's not forget the centuries-old Shia-Sunni tensions.

We have a big problem in Australia at the moment, where 'assimilation' has not worked with a large majority of the Islamic population. The mosques have harboured extremism and just last week a young 'extremist' attacked two police officers with a knife as he brandished the ISIS flag.

I'm all for world peace & harmony, but I don't see it ever happening - as long as religion is at the forefront. Almost every civil war / regional conflict raging on at the moment has religion to blame.

11 ( +18 / -7 )

A start and such a long way to go. The world is ready for the new Islam. Peace and violence detested (and I could personally add respect for women) would go a long way in stability throughout ME, Europe, N and Central Africa, SE Asia, and Indonesia.

4 ( +6 / -2 )

Looks like many non-Muslims here haven't heard of Taqiyya.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Only 1-2 Islamic governed countries are considered pretty moderate. Turkey is one of them (if it still is anymore with the extremism growing) and I hear that Morocco is another. But try going to Saudi Arabia (the birthplace of this evil "theology"), Indonesia, UAE, Pakistan, Iran, Iraq etc and you will find just how much persecution of non-muslims is going on and has been going on for centuries.

While I'd like to commend them for their "efforts" Islamic ideologys aggression, persecution, intimidation, and especially it's founder's actions that have their "religion" in the situation it is today has me feeling like good ol' taqiyya is trying to reduce the blowback against themselves.

After all these decades this only appears to be a blatant PR move folks, and I for one have never forgotten the times an imam in the UK was "speaking out" against extremism trying to appear PC and "moderate" for the public, and behind mosque doors was quite vocally praising the extremist actions. Their time has come and gone as far as I'm concerned.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

The real jihad is not in Syria or Iraq, it is in France: it's the battle for integration...

What does that mean? We are not doing enough to accommodate them so they have to "battle" to make us adapt to their special islamic "needs"?

If muslims want to integrate it's simple... get rid of medieval clothing requirements, stop demanding special treatment, embrace our legal system and refute medieval sharia laws, accept our standards of equal treatment for women, gay people, etc etc.

It's not a battle and the responsibility to integrate is with muslims.

If they cannot do these simple things, then they can go and live in Saudi Arabia.

13 ( +17 / -4 )

Well, we would like to see more of that. Now, if they could around to tell this to all their fellow muskun clerics who are actually preaching Jihad in Europe, like Anjem Choudhury:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/07/anjem-choudary-islamic-state-isis

And to those muslim youths in Europe who are waving ISIS flags:

http://www.jerusalemonline.com/culture-and-lifestyle/weekend-edition-pro-palestinians-interrupt-israel-prize-winner-lea-keonig-in-amsterdam-8444?utm_source=contactology&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Newsletter

I holding my breath that they around to that.

3 ( +4 / -1 )

They're doing this because the vast majority of ISIS victims are....Muslims. Even Saudi Arabia is fighting ISIS.

When it comes to Danish cartoonists, Salmon Rushdie, sexual exploitation and other incidents where infidels are victims, most Muslims in Europe are not "moderate" in any sense of the word.

8 ( +11 / -3 )

Strangerland:

" This is the only way to enlighten that people that lack the intelligence to realize that just because many terrorists are Muslim does not mean all Muslim's are terrorists. "

Did anybody ever claim this, except the islamopologists who keep bringing up this strawman?

The fact is that ALL islamist terrorists like ISIS are muslims. And another fact is, that the "peaceful majority" of muslims keeps producing this radical minority, and hardly ever speaks up against them (while always being very vocal when e.g. the topic is Israel or Mohammed cartoons).

Of course, not all nomal muslims are ISIS terrrorists, just a much as not all Communists were Gulag camp guards, This red herring is really getting old.

Moderator: Please stop using the discussion board to post anti-Islam rants.

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Europe's Muslims stand up to IS

Lip service.

Where were these guys 1 year ago?

9 ( +10 / -1 )

Good idea but I fear it's years too late now.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

Too little, too late.

My thoughts exactly.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It's not too late. Better late than never. And while it's still only a little, it's a good start.

Change has to come from within, and that's where this change is coming from.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

I don't see why peaceful Muslims need to say or do anything. Did we require ordinary Catholics needed to stand up and be counted and condemn the IRA in order to be allowed to get on with their lives. There are millions of Muslims as there are millions of Catholics. Seeing them as one monolithic entity is who need to take "responsibility" for each other is typical of the way dominant groups perceive minority groups in a society, holding them to higher standards than they hold themselves. When a someone in our society commits some horrible act, we do not demand millions of related people get involved, even if the perpetrator claims to speak for a broader group. We recognize the diversity of opinion in our own society.

The Ku Klux Klan lynched black people. They also claim "the Klansmen pins his faith to the Bible as the revealed will of GOD". If they became active again, how would you, as a Christian, feel about people demanding your opposition loud and public, as if they are something to do with you and your responsibility.

Wouldn't you simply dismiss out of hand any association between your believes and theirs, even if the Klan "claimed your beliefs".

The problem of majorities demanding some mythical, monolithic minority entity to condemn the actions of extremists is obvious - in condemning an association is is created, and the other members of the group are actually drawn closer to the extremists in people's minds. After all, if they were a completely separate group of people, why should they need to speak out about it?

Having had this responsibility foisted on then, the non-violent members of the minority group are in a no-win situation. If they fail to speak out, they are criticized. But if they do speak out , a connection is made in people's minds with the extremists, they are perceived as related to them, and they are criticized anyway.

Read the comments "too little, too late", "lip service" which clearly confirm this mechanism. A muslim who have never thought about violent acts, has no desire to commit violent acts and never will commit violent acts has no more moral responsibility to endanger themselves by speaking out against extremism than you do.

The link between them is only in your mind, and since you created that link, whatever they do to try and appease you, you will never be satisfied.

I think what you are really saying is you don't like Muslims and as long as a tiny percentage of Muslims are extremists, you will continue to object to the vast majority who are not.

-2 ( +5 / -7 )

JeffLee:

They're doing this because the vast majority of ISIS victims are....Muslims. Even Saudi Arabia is fighting ISIS.

When it comes to Danish cartoonists, Salmon Rushdie, sexual exploitation and other incidents where infidels are victims, most Muslims in Europe are not "moderate" in any sense of the word.

And you didn't even mention Israel.

It's good to see this movement, but I also wonder if it can grow as fast and as strong as ISIS.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It is about time they started to put down these psychos instead of giving them acceptance with silence.

But it will take more. The animals in Isis were not born raping violent thugs. They were raised in a culture which still justified religion using violence and punishment to obtain compliance and goals. Almost every culture on earth has a past involving oppression of women, slavery and subjugation of people to elites. However, most cultures and religions have evolved to not oppress, subjugate and respects freedom of the person over all else, or the world is moving that direction, Except Islamic cultures. In the end, islam with examplez like the average Egyptian has No problem paying debts with daughters, as was discovered in Los Angeles a few years ago, or 14 year old girl whipped to death in Bangladesh, by her village and imam for the crime of being raped by a 45 years old uncle, these and thousands of other examples show where men like Isis go from being a little kid and being raised into a terrorist. The good people of Islam need to evolve their religion and eliminate all of the insanity done in the name of their religion. The result of this culture is Isis, the cause is deeper.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Thank you JapanToday for listing this very relevant and enlightening article. It actually takes courage and principle to do so. Keep up the good work!

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@Jpn_guy, you're a bit misguided there. The IRA was squarely situated in a single region, between Irish catholics and English protestants. ISIS and the other extremists are well outside just a single region or even country. If the Islamists were only situated in the middle east, nobody would hear much of a peep from anyone else about it. Unfortunately they've been known to commit terrorist acts and threats across the world and everyone that doesn't subscribe to their specific brand of Islamic doctrine.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

@jpn_guy

Read the comments "too little, too late", "lip service" which clearly confirm this mechanism. A muslim who have never thought about violent acts, has no desire to commit violent acts and never will commit violent acts has no more moral responsibility to endanger themselves by speaking out against extremism than you do. The link between them is only in your mind, and since you created that link, whatever they do to try and appease you, you will never be satisfied. I think what you are really saying is you don't like Muslims and as long as a tiny percentage of Muslims are extremists, you will continue to object to the vast majority who are not.

You raised some interesting points in your piece, not all of which I could put above. However, what you failed to touch on was the simple fact that heinous cults such as the IRA & KKK absolutely pale in comparison to ISIL. ISIL are on a warpath, and have $10bn in the bank to work with. They are using social media like never seen before to attract as many delusional lost-souls as possible. I agree that moderates should not have to appease the general public and 'stand up' for peace, but let's face it - these are the same very people that state over and over that Islam is a religion of peace.

The sad reality is, experts say that between 15% ~ 25% of the muslim population are either extremist or at risk of becoming extremist. You do the math - that's 400m+ potential jihadists. What's worse, they've been indoctrinated to 'kill all infidels', by any means necessary.

Again, this is on a scale that the world has never seen before.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

Readers, comparisons with the IRA are not relevant to this discussion.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I think this is not quite convincing from the part of the Muslim community. Do they really mean when they say things like

it is nothing to do with us.

How can u prove that? Well, the koran itself which is the pillar of the faith also harbor extremism and intolerance itself. I think no one can prove but only wonder whether these wars will end, if not, when is it going to roll out again to other countries as already evident in the 9/11 attack. Just saying the truth.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

Well, the koran itself which is the pillar of the faith also harbor extremism

So can the bible, if people want to twist the teachings that way.

-4 ( +2 / -6 )

@ Strangerland, i think u would agree that the topic is not about Christianity of any sort, or Buddhism, etc..It would be wrong if we would skip away from the topic and compare it with other religions, that won't help I think.

2 ( +5 / -3 )

There is no need to twist lots of religious texts, many can & are VERY extreme, simple as that!

0 ( +2 / -2 )

@ Strangerland, i think u would agree that the topic is not about Christianity of any sort, or Buddhism, etc..It would be wrong if we would skip away from the topic and compare it with other religions, that won't help I think.

No, comparison with other religions gives perspective. The problem here isn't the religion, it's the fanatics who twist it to their ends.

After all, we don't condemn all Christians due to the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church or the Klu Klux Klan.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@choiwaruoyaji

It's not a battle and the responsibility to integrate is with muslims.

No it isn't. Stop acting like european countries don't have racist standards that prevent the integration of foreigners and sons/daughters of foreigners. Especially those who are not white. So no, the responsibility also lies with you.

I completely agree that comparing this historical event to other religious historical battles give great perspective. There are extremists in many religions. The majority/powerful poeple need to also stop acting like there was always a bad and a good guy, and putting themselves into the "good guy"s shoes. That's where you fail at understanding each others, culturally speaking. We're all human. In every movement, you can observe extremism, it is something linked to social/group effects and not to the nature/race/ethnies of the population.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

@Strangerland, yep, i think you are right, we should not compare with other religions, as long as everyone has a belief of some sort, even atheist also believe in liberalism or anarchism, etc..

so, u claimed that fanatics can twist it to their end, well, i am not sure how much do u know about the text itself (i mean the koran) aside ur understanding of other texts whether religious or non-religious (that might be sensitive and i think that is true to many). well, i agree to ur point of view, but again, this article is not about KKK or any other groups, whether religious or non-religious (organized crime) that would require us to read or be critical on what kind of texts that form the source of inspiration of such networks.

i am not saying though that other groups are good and others are bad. but let's be real, there are imminent (global) threats as the article is also trying to adress.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It's not too late. Better late than never. And while it's still only a little, it's a good start.

It's too late, this should have taken place years ago. Now it's to the point, where the damage and the negative image of Islam is beyond tainted and for anyone to look at Islam as a somewhat peaceful religion will take a generation, provided that, they completely renounce violence. The ball is in their court.

Change has to come from within, and that's where this change is coming from.

!.7 Billion against a few outspoken ones? Good luck with that.

So can the bible, if people want to twist the teachings that way.

But the Bible doesn't advocate beheading someone because they are an infidel or a NON-believer

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

@annsow

...the responsibility to integrate is with muslims...

No it isn't. Stop acting like european countries don't have racist standards that prevent the integration of foreigners and sons/daughters of foreigners. Especially those who are not white. So no, the responsibility also lies with you.

I think you are absolutely wrong.

I am a foreigner living here in Japan and I think Japanese people do not have to adapt in any way to accommodate me. I have to adapt to the Japanese lifestyle, and in fact that's what I do.

If I try to adapt and fit in and then I am somehow discriminated against then that of course that is unacceptable.

But the initial and main responsibility to adapt and fit in is mine.

In a similar way. muslim people should make every effort to adapt to western lifestyle.

If they are demanding that western societies should change to accommodate their "special islamic needs" then that is a complete mistake.

If they don't like the western lifestyle and standards, (for example, equal treatment for women and for gay people) then why on earth did they come to live in western society. They would be better off living in a muslim country... they could try emigrating to Saudi Arabia.

2 ( +4 / -2 )

It's too late, this should have taken place years ago. Now it's to the point, where the damage and the negative image of Islam is beyond tainted and for anyone to look at Islam as a somewhat peaceful religion will take a generation

Then it's not too late is it. Too late would mean it can never be fixed.

But the Bible doesn't advocate beheading someone because they are an infidel or a NON-believer

And it was used as justification for the Crusades and a number of other holy wars. It all depends on the intent of the people who are interpreting the writings.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

annnsowSep. 28, 2014 - 05:28PM JST @choiwaruoyaji It's not a battle and the responsibility to integrate is with muslims. No it isn't. Stop acting like european countries don't have racist standards that prevent the integration of foreigners and sons/daughters of foreigners. Especially those who are not white. So no, the responsibility also lies with you.

If you want to be accepted in a foreign nation you must accept their ways. annnsow, no nation's citizens have to accept your ways, you have to accept theirs. If you don't like the way they act then you shouldn't move there.

Muslims that move to Western nations and think that Western nation should accept and follow Sharia Law are sadly mistaken and just insulting those Western nations.

The West doesn't have to conform to Islam, Islam has to conform to the West. If it can't, well then, it need not apply for residence.

Wonder how long this post will last before the censors remove it because it offends their religious and political beliefs?

0 ( +2 / -2 )

And? How does that change the fact that it's not too late?

If you thing the radical Islamist will come to their senses and have a sit down and a pow wow, I would say, I have a bridge to sell you.

You obviously missed the point of what I was saying. The fact is, anyone can pervert religion to their own nefarious means.

Yes, but radical Islam is the main topic and radical Islamists are the people that are causing death and destruction across the Middle East towards other Muslims and soon to be coming to the West near you soon.

A few hundred years ago, the Christians were doing it with their holy wars. Still the same religion, still worshiping the same bible. Some Muslims are doing it now. That does not mean the religion is bad, and the fact that only an extremely tiny miniscule percentage of them are perverting it this way basically goes to prove that it's not the religion that is the problem. The problem is those who would pervert the faith.

If the problem were so small, there would NOT be a war and bombing going on and other ME countries wouldn't be panicking now.

It's so hard to know how to respond to your comments, when your reply does not match what I've said, or even what you've previously said.

Because you are trying to dodge, weave and want to cherry pick, that's why.

I can never tell whether you're being willfully ignorant, or if you really just don't understand the original comment. Your reply above has absolutely nothing to do with my comment.

Neither and trying to hurl insults doesn't help your argument.

I'll try to spell this out as simply as possible.

1) There are certain groups, such as the Westboro Baptist Church, and the KKK, who preach hatred in the name of Christianity.

But they are NOT beheading people, they are a small, very small congregation and the majority of the members are from their own family. They are nutty, vile and rude, but their problem is, they just don't know when to keep their mouth shut. That's about it, NO beheadings from them or the KKK.

2) We do not condemn all Christians for these small groups who preach hatred in the name of Christianity.

No, but the Christians are not the people that we have to be worried about when we get on planes, trains, buses or in a crowded place where some maniac will come and blow themselves up in the name of Christianity.

3) As such, why is it alright to condemn all of Islam, and all Muslims, for the hatred preached, and murders committed, in the name of Islam?

That's the fault of the Jihadists and the moderates that, so far have NOT speaking on this issue years and years ago.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

Bass4Funk:

" That's the fault of the Jihadists and the moderates that, so far have NOT speaking on this issue years and years ago. "

There are moderates, but they are getting no traction from Western media, and certainly non from the islamic establishment -- rather, a considerable amount of death threats. It is tough call speaking against the statements in the Koran... in countries like IS, a moderate cleric would have a short live indeed.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

But they are NOT beheading people, they are a small, very small congregation and the majority of the members are from their own family. They are nutty, vile and rude, but their problem is, they just don't know when to keep their mouth shut. That's about it, NO beheadings from them or the KKK.

You said it yourself. We do not judge all Christians on the actions of a small group who is perverting Christianity to its own ends. But then you go on to justify your condemnation of all Muslims based on the actions of a small group, because that small group is doing beheadings.

You can't have it both ways. Either the entire group is responsible for the actions of a small portion of the group, or it isn't. So either you need to condemn all Christians, or not condemn all Muslims. Trying to do both is being hypocritical and simply shows a bias against Muslims.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

No, you need to take the emotion out of the argument, I know there is good and bad in every religion, but the religion of ISLAM has a very bad reputation, that's a fact, take everything else out of the argument. Regardless of what the moderates do, it's a little too late to give Islam a good impression.

-4 ( +0 / -4 )

I can't tell if that was supposed to be a response to my comment or not. Nothing you said seems to actually have anything to do with my post.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

I can't tell if that was supposed to be a response to my comment or not. Nothing you said seems to actually have anything to do with my post.

No, it has everything to do with the topic and question, there is nothing to respond to really. We get your point, however, it's completely overshadowed when you completely try to dismiss the main point and that is, regardless of what the moderates do, they can speak out all they want, but they haven't done it in years and never to the point where they are aggressive in protecting their religion from the Jihadists that are giving Islam a bad name, now a few come out and want to speak out, it's too late when it comes to winning the hearts and minds of people across the planet. The impression of Islam is negative and that won't change anytime soon. If the moderates what to retake their hijacked religion, then they need to be equally as aggressive in denouncing this version of 5th century barbarism.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

@Strangerland, while I do agree with you that many religious texts have their violence, you still seem to be missing the biggest point between Islam, its founder, and it's texts and the other religions you're trying to present as a counter argument.

In Christianity, it started with the violent Judaic texts of the old testament, but then petered out in the Christian gospel with Jesus. Same with Buddhism, Hinduism etc. They may have started somewhat violently but ended with peaceful intent for everyone. With Islam it was exactly the opposite.

Mohammed (the FOUNDER) started off peacefully with haphazard Christian-Judeo philosophy until people called him a heretic because of his lack of understanding of those religions aside from monotheism.. Those that did follow him became more militant as Mohammed was determined to get revenge against those that called him a nutter, and he built a military force for conquering the region. According to the hadiths, and proper chronology, it started off peacefully, until he gained power to dominate the surrounding areas.

As I've said before Islam was not founded by a man of peace. Buddhism and Christianity were...

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Login to leave a comment

Facebook users

Use your Facebook account to login or register with JapanToday. By doing so, you will also receive an email inviting you to receive our news alerts.

Facebook Connect

Login with your JapanToday account

User registration

Articles, Offers & Useful Resources

A mix of what's trending on our other sites