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Troubled history fuels Japan-China tension

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By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN and MARI YAMAGUCHI

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What this really evidence is the investment into indoctrinating its people into irrational "Japan Hate" that the Communist Party of China is making, especially young people.

It's a manipulation of the collective conscious mainly to benefit itself, " ... the CPC and their super wealthy elite families, via the false creation of "an enemy without" to distract from them, "the enemy within" and internal problems.

However, those of us outsides of it should be careful in giving it out support, accepting undiscerning by and fanning the flames, for example, by using terms like "sex slaves" for military prostitutes repetitively.

This takes us back to the recent article of these media groups blindly swallowing anti-Japan propaganda.

2 ( +12 / -10 )

"They complicate America’s objective of maintaining peace and stability in the Pacific..."

Those words are the best joke ever. Since when America maintains peace anywhere on the world?

-4 ( +6 / -10 )

It becomes quite clear that China does not value long term friendship. It has switched or abandoned its friends when it is convenient or useful to do so. If you notice in any Chinese media, when Japan provided the $6 billion in ODA to China in the late 70's to build and moderize their infastructures, only the few communist goverment members knew at the time that Japan contributed greatly to rebuild at the time a primitive China, but these Chinese leaders took the credit. If it's fresh in their memories, Xi never mentioned the help that China received from Japan to moderized their country. In the late 70's to even today, Chinese goverment have censored and never publicly told their citizens that Japan help rebuild their airports, cities and facilities. Only the negative propaganda news of Japan was told to their citizens.

9 ( +13 / -4 )

Japan's door is open but China keeps breaking the windows all the time.

8 ( +15 / -7 )

"They complicate America’s objective of maintaining peace and stability in the Pacific..."

Those words are the best joke ever. Since when America maintains peace anywhere on the world?

Europe hasn't gone back to war, have they?

1 ( +7 / -6 )

There are lots of Japan educated Chinese (including my classmates) who know very well about Japan's contribution. They got free education. Why does the former Chinese Foreign Minister speak Japanese? Why does the current ambassador from China speak fluent Japanese? Some say that the anti-Japanese push is actually the Chinese educated bureaucrats trying to push out Japanese educated bureaucrats, who have superior education and international connections. But anyway, as I've said before, walk down the streets of Shinjuku, and you hear Chinese everywhere (and Korean). Normal people don't pay any attention to this.

-3 ( +5 / -8 )

“Yasukuni Shrine is a damaging element to Japan’s relations with its neighbors,” Foreign Ministry spokesman Qin Gang said.

.... so Qin Gang wants what precisely? For China to tear down Yasukuni shrine and throw the ashes of their dead into the street? Because his tone here is that the mere existence of the shrine is damaging.

For all China's Confucian rhetoric they just can't seem to grasp that for the vast majority of Japanese Yasukuni shrine is about honoring their dead fathers and grandfathers, not about WW2.

6 ( +10 / -4 )

Such statements don’t sit well with Ayumi Shiraishi, a 28-year-old hotel employee who decided to see Yasukuni on a recent trip to the Japanese capital. “The harsher they criticize, the more strongly I feel it’s not their business,” she said of the Chinese. “It’s a matter of the prime minister’s belief, as he has said, and there is nothing wrong with that.”

Hey Ayumi! Do you even know what they are criticizing? Didn`t think so. Think before you speak.

-10 ( +4 / -14 )

She and the Vox populi has done, and has spoken from their hearts.

WWII is over. They are not criticizing, they are politiking without and conscience or integrity for other reasons altogether, and mostly just financial ones which will end up in the pockets of the corrupt CPC elite via their families.

If you are at all spiritual, shrines are the best places for prayers and the remembrance and purification of dead people.

If you don't believe in souls, nor that they can be purified by rite, as no doubt the CPC does, then the whole things a non-issue. They don't exist any more. There's no one there. Go see some other tourist spot.

2 ( +6 / -4 )

Frungy, there are no Japanese ashes at Yasukuni, only sticks with names on them. There are some ashes of Korean soldiers who fought for Japan and are unclaimed (there is a rumor that there are also Chinese ashes of Chinese who fought for Japan and are unclaimed). I respect McArthur, but he should have carried out his original plan and made yasukuni into a dog racing track (it's true!). Tabloid papers report that the priests hate politicians going there to show off because it causes such trouble. And especially PMs.

-1 ( +3 / -4 )

@Frungy,

Its not that they don't seem to grasp, they simply don't care. They are hell-bent on hating Japan because that is what they are taught. Japan could do anything and the CPC would spin it towards resurgent Japanese militarism.

This is sad, but its all China's doing. Keep pushing, and eventually your going to annoy some people.

That said, perhaps the 14 class A criminals need to go, but Yasukuni houses 2.5 million Japanese war dead. Its not going anywhere, and these people should be honored. If they have a mausoleum to Mao, I think Japan can have Yasukuni.

Jeez...China's historical narrative is so twisted, ignorant and hateful it makes me frustrated.

5 ( +7 / -2 )

Such statements don't sit well with Ayumi Shiraishi, a 28-year-old hotel employee who decided to see Yasukuni on a recent trip to the Japanese capital. "The harsher they criticize, the more strongly I feel it's not their business," she said of the Chinese. "It's a matter of the prime minister's belief, as he has said, and there is nothing wrong with that."

You see. For ordinary Japanese, it is a matter of freedom of religion vs oppressive Chinese communists.

-1 ( +7 / -7 )

The 14 don't need to go because they impurities have already gone.

The rest of the world has to start understanding and respecting the Shinto faith.

It's bad enough with the Westerners demanding their pound of flesh, but in China they have old traditions of both digging up corpses and punishing them after they are dead, and punishing the families of their enemies of criminals.

Neither have any place in the modern world and the rule of law.

The Tribunal was political theatre, a farce. What happened afterwards, with the USA building up the Japanese Right Wing and funding alliances with vicious criminal gangs, was much worse.

-1 ( +6 / -7 )

Strolling through China’s sprawling memorial to a 1937 massacre by Japanese troops, a 64-year-old retired teacher said the incident remains an open wound.

The wounds from Tienanmen square, however, have completely healed.

5 ( +8 / -3 )

The wounds from Tienanmen square, however, have completely healed.

They haven't forget about the wounds one bit,

there is a website set in Hong Kong to remind themselves of Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 <>http://www.tmc-hk.org/

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

there is a website set in Hong Kong

Hong kong is not China, as much as China wants it to be. Also, that website was last updated in OCTOBER OF 2012.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Neither Japan or China are capable of facing up to historical actuality. 'My country right or wrong is a failure' to recognize so many different things on so many different levels. It doesn't matter what colors you're flying, if you can't step back for a moment of honest introspection, you're just as bad as the next guy.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

...Nanjing, as Nanking is now called....

Nanjing was never called Nanking; it was (and is) Romanized so under the Wade-Giles system.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

As someone who has worked in the Japanese education system for a while now, I do find myself agreeing with China and Korea that Japan doesn't adequately teach their youth about its militaristic past. That most of the war time history focuses too much on the atomic bombings and glosses over its Militaristic atrocities. "Those who cannot remember the past, are condemned to repeat it."

However, I really don't understand what China and Korea hope to gain by forcing this issue so hard. For all the bad Japan has done in the past, they've also have done well to smooth over ties since WWII. And like the article says, all the constant hectoring only sparks a stronger backlash.

Aside from that, I think there are bigger issues NOW than squabbling over the scars from the past.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

What Abe and the Emperor should both do is stop with the visits to Yasukuni (Abe and his gang) and start with the visits to Nanking, place a wreath there as well as in Korea and other sites of horror. Teach the youth what happened and be done with it. They wont do it because it would acknowledge wrong doing, which out of some childish Japanese reasoning (likewise applied to TPP and such) would damage their version of events. Japanese look down on Chinese, and want to keep it that way. Noda had it right when he said Ishihara was playing the tail of the Tiger (China) and would only succeed n pissing China off. Not only is China pissed, now Russia is approaching from the North. Fun and games have consequences. For years, the policy was "Japan Containment" that is keep the U.S. bases in Japan in order to keep a lid only any future nationalistic mischief in Japan. Mood has shifted, lets contain China. Problem is, China isnt Japan.

-4 ( +3 / -7 )

Japanese look down on Chinese

Its a natural reaction. There's a lot to look down on, starting with the fat dead communists they still worship in the PRC.

1 ( +4 / -3 )

'Its a natural reaction. There's a lot to look down on, starting with the fat dead communists they still worship in the PRC.'

Pretty grubby comment. Something akin to what I heard from the grubby elements in China concerning Japan, but substituting fat dead communists for vicious warmongers. We can do without these unpleasant types on both sides.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

I think most countries would have a war memorial (or many) and most leaders visit to offer their respect. It should be in remembrance of all those who died on all sides and the futility of war. Whatever side anyone is, or were on, shouldn't matter, it should be a solemn place for any visitors. Let's remember not repeat the mistakes of the past.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Both China & Japan are to blame in all this, the only thing the changes is the amount on a given day!

Most Japanese are utterly clueless with regards to WWII & the 1930s. And like wise China is rather selective in how it looks at history & its own involvement.

Bottom lines are these:

Japan has had decades to come to terms with its past, it has failed, miserably! Its a supposed free country so information should be easily to come by but its not in the local lingo

China has NOT been free for decades so the locals cant go on about Mao etc without VERY SERIOUS risks to their & their families personal well being, its not an excuse just a simple fact, still in place as I type.

Bottom line is both Japan & China are to blame, just depends on the moment in time which is the worst offender.

This isn't going away any time soon & mean while the young masses in both countries become more & more ignorant over time, ain't going to end well!

1 ( +2 / -1 )

It would be amazing to see Japanese leadership pay a visit to Nanking, erect a memorial and establish a fund for the families who were killed. Well the fund part might open up a pandoras box of reimbursements throughout Asia. Why not set up a tour for his majesty to make the rounds and put his blessing on new memorials? Collaboration with all countries to make a full account of what really happened in WW2 instead of denying the sexual slavery I read all this crap about how Japan isnt racist, japan is doing its best and the US and others have so much racism. Hmmm, seems I was schooled very well on Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King, ect. At least the US has made a sincere effort to educate and come to terms about its past. Japan should make a sincere effort, and mean it. Strolls through yasukuni....its all getting old, and it continues with the childish image that many adults in the west have about Japan.

Strong defense, open economy, attone for the past and embrace the world. Sounds simple enough to me, so whats the issue?

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Now there is a Japanese book that blames the U.S. for egging Japan to acquire the Diaoyutai ("Senkaku" in Japanese) islands. This was supposedly part of a "grand" U.S. strategy to place a wedge between Japan and China.

Why always blame others, Japan?

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

'I recently read a study on Battle of Nanjing. It is a comparative study of books on Nanjing massacre issued by Chinese Communist Party at different times. What the author found was that the same picture has as many different explanations in as many different books. The explanation of the same picture as to the date and place taken is different from one book to another. Things were added or removed from the same picture. I really want the English translation of this book to be published.'

It's accepted that the Chinese have exaggerated the scale of Nanking. They generally set the death toll at around 300,000 while most historians set the figure at between 80,000-140,000. Sinister rightwing historians and head cases of the calibre of Ishihara and Momii in Japan set it at close to zero.

3 ( +5 / -2 )

@jimizo

Regardless of the number, it cannot be denied that a holocaust did occur at Nanjing and other parts of Manchuria, in Singapore, in Guam, Phillipines, the list goes on. You can read about it, or you can have people who were there tell their story. I have been told by Japanese themselves, (who are now dead) that they pitchforked babies in China. Having lived in Japan for sometime, I am convinced that these attrocities did occur. I have also been told by Japanese that Ishihara and others are appealing to the dark side of Japanese. This dark side I have witnessed on many occasions. If I have witnessed it, you can be guaranteed other Asians have witnessed it as well. Japan needs to come to grips with this, but as a Westerner, I dont know how they can. The US made a wrong right with the atomic bomb and defeats throughout the pacific. Other countries in Asia never got that opportunity. Economic aid, ungrateful apologies etc are not the answer. Im not a China lover as I think they are rude, crude and lewd. I think this is why Japan cut them down, and many still want to. A wrong is a wrong, however, and China is claiming its place in the world. Strolling through yasukuni and reliving past adventures is only a temporary fix. What would be best for Japan is a sort of hybrid solution: Nodas pacifism combined with Abenomics. Now we have nationalism driving Abenomics. This would all be comical if it didnt have such serious implications

2 ( +5 / -3 )

@5petals I don't know why your comments were addressed to me. I was pointing out that an atrocious massacre took place in Nanking on a large scale but it is generally accepted among historians outside China that the number of 300,000 is inflated. Of course I wouldn't debauch myself by claiming nothing happened. By inflating the figures China is opening the door for the more sinister elements in Japanese 'academia' regarding this incident along with the aforementioned rabble-rousers to claim a whole cloth fabrication. Thankfully, such appalling nonsense is generally confined to these shores but China is doing itself no favours by exaggeration.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Japan is doing the right thing refusing to allow innocent children to be traumatised and indoctrinated by the nationalistically inspired 'atrocity pornographer' mobs.

The estimates also relate to deaths across a wide region on that particular front of the war, and over a period of months. They do not relate merely to the city of Nanjing, the entrance into which was notably peaceful. The war happened outside it.

Nanjing did not experience a holocaust as it has been portrayed. You can go right back to the original documents and it becomes quite clear. There are too many anomalies to base a solid case on and too much rhetorical drum banging and clear fabrications, as per Iris Chang's books.

Fabrications which have been accepted by historians and yet which they still refuse to remove because to do so risks collapsing their tower of cards.

The Chinese CPC know and don't care as the imagined one works to their political advantage.

It's over. Time to accept life as it is and move on.

-2 ( +3 / -5 )

According to a joint study by historians including Zhifen Ju, Mitsuyoshi Himeta, Toru Kubo and Mark Peattie, more than 10 million Chinese civilians were mobilized by the Kōa-in (East Asia Development Board) for forced labour.[31] According to the Japanese military's own record, nearly 25% of 140,000 Allied POWs died while interned in Japanese prison camps where they were forced to work (U.S. POWs died at a rate of 37%).[32][33] More than 100,000 civilians and POWs died in the construction of the Burma-Siam Railway.[34] The U.S. Library of Congress estimates that in Java, between 4 and 10 million romusha (Japanese: "manual laborer"), were forced to work by the Japanese military.[35] About 270,000 of these Japanese laborers were sent to other Japanese-held areas in South East Asia. Only 52,000 were repatriated to Java, meaning that there was a death rate of 80%.

and one wonders why Japan suddenly become a saint and says that all comfort women are paid prostitutes.

-7 ( +1 / -8 )

@Mister Ed Thank you for giving a textbook example of what I meant when I said 'By inflating the figures China is opening the door for the more sinister elements in Japanese 'academia' regarding this incident along with the aforementioned rabble-rousers to claim a whole cloth fabrication.' It's sinister, warped and disgraces the decent people of Japan.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

Across the waters, Japanese visiting a Shinto shrine in Tokyo that enshrines 14 convicted war criminals among 2.5 million war dead say they’re tired of Chinese harping, underscoring a gradual hardening of attitudes toward their neighbor.

Duh...just remove the 14 convicted war criminals from the shrine.

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

But when Japan have taken the island from China in the Second-sino war they can just keep it, when it is war almost everything is legal! I am absolutely sure that if China could have the chance to occupie and colonize Japan if they were powerful enough and never return it back, they would have done it! But in this war it was Japan who was the strongest country and most powerful, so Japan got the most islands, but they have returned a lot of islands back to China after WW2 and The Second Sino War! Some countries like Portugal and Great Britain choose to return all of their colonized lands to the People they took it away from, but that was lands and here China is upset over a few very small islands. It is up to the emperor of Japan Akihito and the prime minister Shinzo Abe to discuss about the islands, If the answer is No to return the islands back to China, then I think China must accept and respect the decision:):)

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

It's ironic how the Japanese treat the Chinese and Koreans like crap despite the fact that those two peoples did not scheme and execute the mass slaughter of Japanese cities while the Japanese do love to worship the two time nuke dropping 'friend'

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

@Jimizo

Accuracy and is not and can never sinister ... however, to get anywhere near the objective truth of what happened, all of the Western war time and post-war propaganda is going to have to be deconstructed and analysed.

I suppose you think you are clever and assume you "know" what happened. I think you will be surprised when you start investigating it more deeply and impartially. I was. There are too many fabrications on one side (Chinese, echoed by Westerners) and too many striking anomalies on the other.

Very quickly you come to realise you have to throw out and reject almost every assumption you had been fed and realise that the CPC elite is deliberately and wilfully creating tension for its benefit, and not any logical or moral purpose.

Iris Chang for one was played by them and went on to destroy her own and her own book's credibility by refusing to remove widely accepted (outside of Japan) falsehoods and fabrications. However, the "atrocity pornographers" will still love it, whether it is real or not.

0 ( +4 / -4 )

What's the difference between germany and Japan? Why many asian countries can not forget the past like other countries in Europe? why do we have to argue about the "thing" over 80 years ago? Can not change the past so move on. Generation is changing now. people need to change at the same time.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Seems the lattest trend is that Japan was justified in WW2, they were saints who did no wrong, all the attrocities were fabricated by Chinese and others. Kamikaze are to be dignified and dare anyone speak out against Japan. The Tribunal court was a farce and Tojo should have never been tried. Im sure if we continue with this load, soon the tribunal decision will be reveresed and all those found guilty will be post pardoned with perhaps a move made about it. My elders had a different story when it comes to Japan, and for the ones who are still allive to this day dont trust them. Im not Japanese and have no dog in the race, so I look at history for what it was. For the most part, the Japanese were beast who ignored the rules of war and were only interested in benefiting themselves by taking lands and resources that didnt belong to them, forcing the locals to speak Japanese and service the Japanese. The aftermath of the war-communism and its purges, facism etc is a dffierent story, with different causes and results. There is no need to whitewash or change history in order to suit you. Too many people died in WW2 to push back the tide of facism and barbaric ideals that Japan embraced; its disrespectful to them and to yourself because we are enjoying the results of their sacrifice.

-2 ( +2 / -4 )

//Japan is a country without credibility. They pretend to be friendly, but they cant be trusted, Qi Houjie said as a frigid wind swept the austere plaza of the Nanking Massacre Memorial Hall.//

Ironic to hear it from the Chinese really!. This is exactly how other south-east Asians do feel toward China at the moment..

May be China's behavior at the moment in the south china sea, picking on the little neighbors as a mean of paying back to feel good. I just wish China not to dwell too much on the ugly past, and lets move on for a better world with their neighbors !

6 ( +6 / -0 )

Japan was put in a position by America - breaking their agreements, seizing Japan's assets, and cutting supplies - where war was made justifiable. It was engineered by them.

It's not a question of revising history. It a question of removing patriotic biases, and war time racism and propaganda, and discovering it for the first time both ... for the Chinese, and Westerners. Racism many of our elders still suffer from.

It should be our job to ensure it is not passed down to further generations but removed from humanity.

Unfortunately, the CPC (and South Koreans) are not only weighing it heavy with all the fabrications and propaganda but exaggerating them even further and not for any moral cause but for political and economic value in the here and now.

For Westerners, especially Americans, it requires some very serious questioning of their wartime leadership, racism, and their nation's imperial ambitions in the Pacific Asia even to this say ... which most are unwilling to do. I even requires a greater understand of the nature of conflict (the war started long before Pearl Harbor).

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Oh,and let's not forget Emperor Hirohito himself boycott Yasukuni shrine because of the Class War A criminals inclusion into the shrine.

Emperor Hirohito expressed strong displeasure in 1988 over Yasukuni Shrine’s decision in the late 1970s to include Class-A war criminals on the list of people honored there, sources said Thursday, citing a memorandum by a former Imperial Household Agency official.

“That’s why I have not visited the shrine since,” the Emperor, known posthumously as Showa, told former Imperial Household Agency Grand Steward Tomohiko Tomita, according to a memorandum written by Tomita that was obtained by the Nihon Keizai Shimbun.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2006/07/21/national/hirohito-visits-to-yasukuni-stopped-over-war-criminals/#.U1cdQfk71e4

-2 ( +1 / -3 )

What's the difference between germany and Japan? Why many asian countries can not forget the past like other countries in Europe? why do we have to argue about the "thing" over 80 years ago? Can not change the past so move on. Generation is changing now. people need to change at the same time.

I support you statement and i think Japan will be better off following your advice, which is putting a stop to it's revisionist's attitude

0 ( +1 / -1 )

What's the difference between germany and Japan? Why many asian countries can not forget the past like other countries in Europe? why do we have to argue about the "thing" over 80 years ago? Can not change the past so move on. Generation is changing now. people need to change at the same time.

You can't blame those Asian countries when Japan constantly visit Yasukuni shrine with 14 Class A war criminals in it. By doing that,Japan is either acknowledging the war atrocities or denying it. As a result,Asian countries keep bringing up the past.

Of course,I'm aware that there are also innocent people in the Yasukuni shrine beside the war criminals which is why I suggest they should just remove the war criminals from the shrine. It's an insult and disrespectful to the innocent dead to be included in the same shrine as those war criminals.

I also think Asian countries that protest should change their policy in their protest. I think rather than protest the visit of lawmakers to Yasukuni shrine,they should protest the inclusion of war criminals into the shrine. The shrine itself is not the problem,it's the war criminal in there that is causing the problem.

-3 ( +2 / -5 )

I find it incredible the amount of misinformation that is believed by folks about the tension between Japan and China. People have fallen so easily for the hype and propaganda being spewed by Communist China's 50-cent army.

The so called Communist Chinese proof reasoning for the tension is overblown bunk-sandwiches fed to the masses. If people would just do a little research they would see the truth and stop falling pray to charlatans and the shenanigans being played on them. But, it is easier to be lazy and believe what someone tells you rather than doing the leg work or searching for facts.

Propaganda only works when people are lazy.

Also, too many people believe that if someone writes a book or a columns in a newspaper that makes them an expert on that subject. Iris Chang was a perfect example, she wrote a few books that were filled with myths, hype and rumors and bingo people believed her to be some sort of historian or expert.

In fact Iris Chang was nothing more than an activist with her own agenda to promote and sell. She made her arguments based on nothing but the word of this person or that person. Her cause was based on her own opinion and bias beliefs. All one needed to do was fact check what she wrote and they would have seen right through her.

That brings me back to the cut and paste propaganda that the 50-cent army pushes here and around the world. Folk have fallen so easily for that propaganda without even looking into the stories being told. All you have to do is do a little leg-work and you can counter their hype, myths and rumors.

Propaganda only works when folks are too lazy or just don't care.

Kasper123Apr. 23, 2014 - 04:42AM JST But when Japan have taken the island from China in the Second-Sino war they can just keep it, when it is war almost everything is legal!

What are you talking about? Japan didn't keep any islands it took during the Second Sino-Japan war. Please try harder and stop believing what folks tell you.

HansaramApr. 22, 2014 - 11:57PM JST Duh...just remove the 14 convicted war criminals from the shrine.

There are no bodies, ashes or bones there, just names. Look it up.

bfg4987Apr. 22, 2014 - 12:35PM JST The wounds from Tienanmen square, however, have completely healed.

Those wounds haven't been healed, they have been covered up by the government and any mention of them will find you charged with Disturbing Public Order.

HansaramApr. 23, 2014 - 11:46AM JST By doing that,Japan is either acknowledging the war atrocities or denying it. As a result,Asian countries keep bringing up the past.

There are only two nations that keep bringing up the Shrine and those are the two nations that want something from Japan.

Money makes the world go round and their beef is that they want money.

-1 ( +4 / -5 )

There are no bodies, ashes or bones there, just names. Look it up.

Just remove the name then.

There are only two nations that keep bringing up the Shrine and those are the two nations that want something from Japan.

Money makes the world go round and their beef is that they want money.

Remove the name,that will stop giving China or Korea excuse to whine and complain about the shrine visit.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

You can't blame those Asian countries when Japan constantly visit Yasukuni shrine with 14 Class A war criminals in it. By doing that,Japan is either acknowledging the war atrocities or denying it. As a result,Asian countries keep bringing up the past.

The whole Yasukuni business is blown out of hand. by C&K, by a significant percentage of the West and even by the so-called "liberal" Japanese media. Ultimately, it is a country honoring its dead. They already signed a treaty (considering the correlation of forces at the time, it is really in nature a diktat, but at least on the books that's how it goes) agreeing to accept the judgment of the Tokyo Tribunal (despite the fact it is such a crummy court it actually accepted a document, written in Chinese, as proof of a Japanese plan of aggression ... the lowness to which that court would succumb is ridiculous). And so the Class As are incarcerated, executed, and now it is over. If they want to enshrine those people, well, they've served their sentence by "law" (a lot of which had to be made up on the flimsiest of pretexts).

At the very least, it is, taken rationally, hardly a sign of renewed aggression.

0 ( +2 / -2 )

There is a lot of talk about the cruelty of the Japanese empire. The Japanese empire was cut from the same fabric as European Imperialism, which was just as cruel. Lost in the conversation are the voices of anti-imperialist leaders in SE Asia and India who praised Japan's role. And don't talk about Japan violating "rules of war". War itself is a crime against humanity. What, were the Japanese supposed to believe that when Europeans invaded Japan, they would suddenly be nice? The significance of yasukuni shrine is zero in terms of the criminality of modern civilization. All sides should be cursed.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

"“Japan is a country without credibility. They pretend to be friendly, but they can’t be trusted,”

So he admits that Japan is trying to be friendly! That's a start. But he says they can't be trusted because of the events of 80 years ago? I suppose he is wary of friendly Germans too? And if the thinks about the opium wars, how many other countries will he doubt. By all means, visit the Nanking museum, but don't let it colour your view of a whole race. This man used to be a teacher? Sad.

"“The harsher they criticize, the more strongly I feel it’s not their business,” Sounds like the whaling issue now. But, there's a point there. It's simply true that the more China complains, the less Japanese will listen.

" when it comes to history, “I don’t have good feelings toward the Japanese.” Fine, regarding history. So let's look to the future. Many blacks probably don't have good feelings towards whites - when it comes to history. Fair enough, but it's 2014 ...

"We must take back the Diaoyu Islands, Japan knows very well we won’t give them up like cowards.”

And this friends is why the answer is blowin in the wind. No it's not actually - it's right here in attitudes like that. Whether it's two boys fighting over a yoyo in a park, nobody wants to be see to be a coward.

sigh

1 ( +2 / -1 )

"the wounds from Tianamen have healed"... LOL no they haven't - anyone who discusses that topic in the PRC is inviting themselves to be subjected to state sponsored intimidation and harm!

"China’s accusations against Japan are undercut by its own selective approach to history and manipulation of nationalism to shore up ruling party support, critics say. Official histories exaggerate the communist role in fighting the Japanese while minimizing that of the rival Nationalists.

China also downplays Japanese attempts to make things right, including its official apologies for the war — at least 25 by one Chinese scholar’s count — and nearly $36 billion in financial assistance provided by Tokyo in the postwar decades."

These two paragraphs say it all really. Manipulation of nationalism is ugly no matter where it occurs, and yet this is the same as what happened in Imperial Japan. BUT, the PRC whitewash and justify it with the usual arrogance of "How dare you criticize us - WO SHI ZHONGGUOREN. THAT MEANS WE ARE RIGHT! We call on you to correct your mistakes (in disagreeing with us!)"

Japan is far from a perfect place today, but to listen to PRC drivel like that described in this article is like watching a pre-teen bully throw stones at glass houses and then brag about how "righteous" he/she is.

1 ( +2 / -1 )

@Kazuaki Shimazaki

a lot of which had to be made up on the flimsiest of pretexts

So you think atrocities committed by Japanese happen or not? There are lot of western journalist that saw it happen. It's not just the Chinese alone who think Rape of Nanking happen. Western countries have acknowledge it happen unless you are suggesting western countries lying.

http://www.nankingatrocities.net/Fall/fall_01.htm http://www.nankingatrocities.net/Terror/terror_01.htm

Forget about Iris Chang. Refuting Iris Chang=/=refuting Rape of Nanking Rape of Nanking have been acknowledge to be true(except maybe among right wing Japanese nationalists) even before Iris Chang write her book.

-4 ( +1 / -5 )

What Abe and the Emperor should both do is stop with the visits to Yasukuni

The Emperor doesn't visit Yasukuni. Get your facts straight before launching into tirade

2 ( +4 / -2 )

So you think atrocities committed by Japanese happen or not? There are lot of western journalist that saw it happen. It's not just the Chinese alone who think Rape of Nanking happen. Western countries have acknowledge it happen unless you are suggesting western countries lying.

Hansaram, I see that you don't even understand the war crimes situation very well. Generally, the complaint (including yours) is against Class A criminals, who are charged on a very nebulous and hypocritical crime called "crime against peace". The atrocities to which you mention will be classified B and C (which for some reason, people don't raise as much of a fuss about). Now, please go reread my points on Class A war criminals.

As for the Nanking thing, I do think it happened (as does most of the Japanese historian community). But I'm not putting it by the Chinese to have severely padded the figures - in a time when reparations may be sought, every claimed death is worth potential money and even after that it is worth political leverage.

I think that in the end, the Tokyo Tribunal did itself and the world a disservice. It is almost certain that enough evidence actually existed to make some decent prosecutions without sacrificing standards - that would have made the point fine.

Unfortunately, instead of doing that, in the pointless "feel-good" rush standards both in evidence and legality itself were compromised (like a stereotypical Communist / dictatorship court), permanently damaging the credibility of any and all judgments the Court rendered. You don't have to be a Japanese right-winger to suspect the judgments of a court made by victors, and who accepted a Chinese text in some magazine as evidence of Japanese "conspiracy against peace"...

Worse, almost as if they know how weak some of their cases are, instead of showing a "We'd accept your challenge at any time, because we'd win any fair match, so don't bother watsing your resources and credibility" stance, they quickly forced Japan to agree to the judgment as part of the peace treaty terms returning their sovereignty.

In individual terms, this is the equivalent of a court convicting "A", then the government coercing A to "voluntarily" give up his right to appeal - skipping even the need for a court to consider and turn down A's appeal! Most would call that a serious compromise of juidical standards. In historic terms, didn't they learn in WWI that trying to seal blame onto a certain party by treaty is not the best idea? But feel good uber alles. Sigh...

1 ( +3 / -2 )

Kazuaki san, I don't care if it was 300,000 or 12. NOONE who participated in the things that went on during that "Nanking thing" deserves so much as a flower on their tombstone.

-5 ( +1 / -6 )

Pretty grubby comment.

Yes, the truth about PRC is very grubby indeed, I agree.

@Loki and 5petals

Seems the lattest trend is that Japan was justified in WW2, they were saints who did no wrong, all the attrocities were fabricated by Chinese and others

and one wonders why Japan suddenly become a saint and says that all comfort women are paid prostitutes.

Nobody is claiming to be a "saint", and nobody, not even the biggest "denier" you can point to, says that all comfort women were prostitutes. Nor does anyone contend that all atrocities were fabricated by PRC. You cut the legs out from under your own position when you resort to gross exaggerations of this sort.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

@Kazuaki Shimazaki

Disagree with everything you said. What are these sacrificing standard you talking about? I see Tokyo trial pretty much fair and square after all the damage Japan cause in Asia. Yes victor decide it all but the result of Tokyo trial will be the same regardless.

Non of the war criminals deserve respect even in their dead especially all the evil deed they done. Might as well build a statue to worship the pilot who drop the atomic bomb.

-3 ( +1 / -4 )

It may be tough logic for some to accept but if China - and indeed much of the rest of Asia - had the quality of life, wages and wealth per capita and safe democratic society that Japan has today, the Chinese would be a lot happier than they are ... and the rest of the world would not be suffering all the rubbish, air pollution and conflict it produces.

And the people of China would not have suffer Mao's 70m genocide, nor the corrupt Nationalists' multi-million slaughter (remember they killed one million Chinese peasants in one night by destroying the banks of the Yellow River and flood them without any warning).

Therefore, the people of China would have actually been far, far better of peacefully accepting Japanese leadership in the 1930s. Certainly far better off then under the European Imperialists.

Sadly, it's unlikely that the majority of Chinese will never experience the quality of life, wealth, peace, safety and security the Japanese do.

All this coordinated hate mongering at Japan is just a distraction from who the real enemy 'within China' is.

2 ( +2 / -0 )

Chinese propaganda.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

This suggestion from 5petals:

"What Abe and the Emperor should both do is stop with the visits to Yasukuni (Abe and his gang) and start with the visits to Nanking, place a wreath there as well as in Korea and other sites of horror. Teach the youth what happened and be done with it."

is by far the best idea I've heard. And if Japan were truly repentant, the Emperor and PM would have no problem carrying it out. After all, German leaders have visited Holocaust sites and expressed their remorse. Why can't the Japanese leaders do the same? Unfortunately, what 5petals points out in the very next sentence is also probably true:

"They wont do it because it would acknowledge wrong doing, which out of some childish Japanese reasoning (likewise applied to TPP and such) would damage their version of events."

Yes, Gen. MacArthur, who famously proclaimed Japan "a nation of 12-year olds", would agree.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

Then isn't it amazing that a bunch of 12 years could rebuild a nation from ground zero and turn it into the second biggest economy in the world within 30 years, making just about everything better quality and more efficiently than it was before, and inventing a whole load of new technologies.

Even now, after 5,000 years of history, China is hardly able to make the same quality of goods.

Those 12 year old are now 69.

You're going as far as clearly racist and irrational sentiments, slowguy2.

No, Japanese individual alive today has any responsibility for action in the past carried out by individuals unrelated to them and long dead. No Japan alive should give credence to the exaggerated racist nonsense being spouted by the Chinese and Korean nationalists.

I am sorry, you're too late to WWII. Go back to your computer war games and leave the real world for the peacemakers.

69 years of absolute peace and a history before that of 250 years of peace ... Japan has a lot to show and teach the world about how modern societies can run; peacefully, efficiently, cleanly and safely.

If only Japan had been allow to lead the rest of Asia to such a high quality of life ... at least it was able to lead much of the rest of Asia to liberty from the White Imperialists. More than the Chinese or Korean dictators can boast.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

“Japan is a country without credibility. They pretend to be friendly, but they can’t be trusted,” Qi Houjie said as a frigid wind swept the austere plaza of the Nanking Massacre Memorial Hall.

I guess even "teachers" there don't know who funded the original construction cost for the said "Memorial Hall". The above basically sums up the censorship and propaganda in China.

4 ( +4 / -0 )

HansaramApr. 23, 2014 - 12:39PM JST Just remove the name then.

Why? Tell that to the families of those men that died in the service to their nations. Every country who has ever fought a war has memorials to the fallen warriors.

Let's play a game, South Korea, North Korea, Communist China and the US of A have all committed war crimes and crimes against humanity during the last 70 years. Do you think they too should teardown their war memorials? Or should only Japan because it lost it's war?

HansaramApr. 23, 2014 - 12:39PM JST Remove the name,that will stop giving China or Korea excuse to whine and complain about the shrine visit.

You actually believe that this is just about a war memorial? You need to do a bit more research on these rows. If and when you do you shall be amazed to discover that at the heart of this problem their is more.

Communist China wants Japan to kowtow before it and join it's side and leave the US of A alliance. But, as long as Japan doesn't this row will continue.

South Korea, well that one is a who lot more complicated. There are many factors at play there territorial, government attempt at misdirecting public anger and then there is money. Shake all three together and you get the 1965 treaty.

So in other, it doesn't matter if Japan were to tear down the entire Shrine today, Communist China and South Korea would find another excuse to get mad.

2 ( +3 / -1 )

Let's play a game, South Korea, North Korea, Communist China and the US of A have all committed war crimes and crimes against humanity during the last 70 years. Do you think they too should teardown their war memorials? Or should only Japan because it lost it's war?

No country should be honoring it's war criminals.

Communist China

Communist China does not exist, as China is an oligarchy, not a communist state.

-5 ( +0 / -5 )

It's not "honoring" and they weren't really "war criminals".

They were just, unfortunately, on the losing side. The Americans required a few blood sacrifices for the sake of good theatre to distract from what was really going on, the establishment of their own imperial regime within Pacific-Asian region through the destruction of the number one challenger.

We should not look to history to decide what would have been the best result, we should look at the various societies today and ask which is the best, for that is what could have existed right across the Pacific-Asian region.

5 ( +5 / -0 )

These people who are saying the Tribunal was unfair make me laugh. How many generals and others who were responsible for attrocities abroad were given full immunity? Lets see, most who were responsible for the germ warfare experiments (unit 731)were given immunity in order to gain important scientific information. One of the Emperors relatives who was in Manchuria was not even tried for warcrimes, even though the evidence clearly showed he had knowledge. There were only a handful of people who were even hanged for outrageous behavior. Then, even after protest from abroad, the Emperor was reinstated...actually he never even had to abdicate his throne..and is still in charge! English and Christianity were not forced on the Japanese as McAurthur had suggested, and the facist who led Japan were reinstated in the government in the 50s. What more do you want? A full aquittal of all guilty as charged?

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Spetals.

Look up what the Indian had to say about the Tribunal.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@5petals

Indeed, what juror Radhabinod Pal said was that there,

"was no evidence, testimonial or circumstantial, concomitant, prospectant, restrospectant, that would in any way lead to the inference that the government in any way permitted the commission of such offenses", and "there was nothing to show that it was the product of government policy".

In addition, he pointed out that "conspiracy to wage aggressive war was not illegal in 1937, or at any point since".

An international report at the time condemned them strongly saying, "We have found its foundation in international law to be shaky. We have seen that its process was seriously flawed. We have examined the verdict's inadequacy as history."

I do not know who said they were "unfair", what I said was they were a piece of political theatre, lasting twice as long as those against Germany, whose purpose, along with the reconstruction of the social order of Japan, was designed to break and bow its spirit in order to allow American Imperial ambition to dominate the Pacific-Asian region ... as were the American ambitions in threatening Japan's existence, and thereby creating the conflict.

In short, removing the number one challengers of its dominance, a dominance that went on to allow millions to be murdered and raped right up until at least the late 60; Vietnam, Korea, Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia etc (For example, the CIA were handing out death lists of left wingers to the right wing gang leaders) by removing those with leadership abilities.

The USA, through the CIA and in collusion with numerous criminal leaders, then went on to establish the right wing order that dominates Japanese politics to this day.

Many of the cases were clearly ridiculous, e.g. prison cooks were tried for "feeding prisons tree roots" when, in fact, they had been feeding them gobo (burdock) which is tonic food and part of Japanese cuisine.

Americans have a hard enough time understanding their nation's creation of the conflict and appear blind and uninformed of its policy, then and now, to dominate Pacific-Asia as part of its God given "Manifest Destiny", as it was caused.

Comparing the state of US society to the peace, safety, quality and wealth of Japanese society, and considering what happened across Asia under decades its influence, one has to wonder if the best side won and the best outcome was achieved.

For the 70 million who went on to died under Mao, the millions of women driven to prostitution, the children still being born deformed, and the peasants still having their limbs blown off, the answer has to be no.

And how many decades will it be until the Chinese people are allowed to think and act as freely as Japanese people?

Yes, people ought to learn from history but to learn rather than be indoctrinated into a cult belief of cultural superiority, you've got to widely studied first. But more can be learned by looking at the present.

I do not think the poverty, corruption and lack of human rights in Chinese society, nor the criminality, racism and inequality in American society are good cultural exports.

Imagine how Asia could have been if it had not suffered all those additional burdens and risen to the quality of life Japan enjoys today even after experiencing total destruction ... economically, it would have wiped the USA of the map (which is what the wars and the TPPs etc are all about trying to stop).

1 ( +2 / -1 )

These people who are saying the Tribunal was unfair make me laugh. How many generals and others who were responsible for attrocities abroad were given full immunity?

For the Allied, EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

-1 ( +2 / -3 )

Its interesting when people are free of any yoke of oppression that was lifted only through the efforts of somebody else, they find the way to somehow be critical of the liberators past actions and justify some past fantasy that the oppressor was actually better! Ive met many old timer Japanese, who amazingly, had nothing good to say about the facist government of Tojo or the IJA. There were the most pro American Japanese I have ever met. Its only recently, with the neo facist movement, that I hear or read such nonsense that nigel, mister ed and others are talking about. Of course its impossible, but I think what you need is to have been a subject under the greater coprosperity spheres dominion in order to understand that what we have now is surely bettter than anything that mess offered. Perhaps been around during the Sook massacre, and forced to bow east or be killed. Umm, sorry, I dont care what what the sole dissenter from India had to say during the Tribunal. At that time, there was a movement for Independance from Britian, but the Japanese had other intentions.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

There is no such thing as a "war crime". War itself is a crime.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

As just one example, that "mess" (Japanese leadership) doubled the Korean population and doubled the life expectancy of Koreans.

Would you have rather died half the age or have been part of the half of the population that never lived?

0 ( +1 / -1 )

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