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Muslims seek change in way Hollywood movies portray them

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hahahahahahahahaaaa

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smoke>fire.

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One problem is that Islam ( or the scholars who interpret it) bans so many things, that for many in the Middle East, there is little of interest left or to talk and write about. Virtually no sports, no mixed-sex dancing, no taking of human images, no drinking alcohol, no dating, no going outside unless covered up and with a male member of your family; it really does not give a lot to write about within the Hollywood genre.

The milder forms of Islam practised elsewhere in the world do offer a variety of topics of interest, with less stereotyping; but the silent majorities rarely attract attention.

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A little background on the "Muslim Public Affairs Council" which is now educating Hollywood:

In 1986, MPAC was formed as a political action arm of one of the largest Wahhabi mosques in America, the Islamic Center for Southern California.

As the Center for Security Policy's Team B II report entitled "Sharia: The Threat to America" notes, "The founders of the Islamic Center for Southern California are Hassan Hathout and his brother Maher Hathout. The late Hassan Hathout was a senior member of the Muslim Brotherhood Movement. The two brothers Maher spent time in an Egyptian prison during the early days of the Muslim Brotherhood’s activities there, led by the Brotherhood’s founder Hassan Al Banna. MPAC’s own publication, The Minaret, has proudly called Hassan a 'companion of' and Maher 'a close disciple of' Brotherhood founder Hassan al Banna."

Maher Hathout also founded and is currently a senior advisor for MPAC. He and others at MPAC also currently work for and maintain a close relationship with the Islamic Center of Southern California.

Hathout was also on the board of directors and a member of the American Muslim Council (AMC) from 1993 to 1997. AMC was founded by the al Qaeda financier and Hamas operative Abdurahman Alamoudi who is currently serving 23 years in prison for funding terrorist groups including al Qaeda.

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After years of watching Muslims portrayed as terrorists in mainstream TV and movies............

I think there is a reason for that.

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I guess that we would have a different outlook if it were not for the "constant negative stories" we keep hearing about on the news. Shoe bomber, Underwear bomber, Groups arrested in Canada, UK who were planning attacks, fatwah on authors and cartoonists, stabbings of film makers etc. I wonder why there is such a negative image for muslims? I just can't put my finger on it.

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"Muslims seek change in way Hollywood movies portray them"... good luck with that.

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Good that they are trying to give more people of islamic faith a chance to get a break in Hollywood.

As for the Villain, etc roles, Hollywood works that way remember when the Germans, Russians, South Africans had their stint as being the ultimate villains.

Ditto with other fads like Martial Arts, anyone recall the Karate, Kung-Fu, Ninja, etc fads and the tons of movies & TV-shows that used them?

Each of those fads produced some form of change when local movie-makers stood up and made their own films that were more realistic.

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Muslims wants change in Hollywood, Muslims wants changes in America, Muslims wants changes in everything in Europe and USA, Muslims wants changes in other countries in the world. Well For them all world should change according to them.

We never hear that Muslims want changes in Islam itself for practicing and co-existince as a religion. And freedom to own followers to follow or denay it. Means freedom in own religion.

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I wonder about the ethnic/religious background of 70% of the hot shots in Hollywood. That should give you one clear idea for those who are wondering the reasons/why Muslims are portrayed that way.

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One thing clear from the comments, they have a long way to go.

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If scriptwriters were asked to put a Muslim good guy in their story, what could they realistically have him do?

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If scriptwriters were asked to put a Muslim good guy in their story, what could they realistically have him do?

He could work with the FBI to bring down a Muslim terrorist group.

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It's rare but I just saw a DVD from the 1990s not too long ago, "A Perfect Murder," with Michael Douglas and Gwyneth Paltrow. David Suchet was the New York detective investigating the crime, and he was a Muslim.

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Like Noah Bennet said during the last Heroes episode: "Sure. There might be curiosity for a while, but all it takes is one Sylar, and then..."

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Remember how Hollywood portrayed the American Indians for so long?

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If Hollywood is looking for someone to play a superstar professional athlete, they'd likely cast someone who is black ........ because many/most of them are; if they're looking to cast the next techo-geek billionaire, they'll likely cast someone who's white ........... because many/most of them are; if they're looking to cast the next global jihadist, they'll likely cast someone who's Muslim, because ...........

Moderator: Readers, we realize this is an emotionally charged topic but we ask you all to be tolerant in your views and post nothing offensive.

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Maybe we could take religion OUT of the film industry, and portray people from the middle east as people. Full stop. Do we portray people from the southern US as bible-thumping KKK members all the time? Novel idea.

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Muslims seek change in way Hollywood movies portray them

Else they will declare Jihad against Hollywood.

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I have a hard time believing that Muslim is a terrorist line is bought at all in Hollywood. Not after watching Sum of All Fears. Where they specifically rewrote it to make the bag guys Nazis, rather then Islamic terrorists. Probably the most pathetic piece of screenwriting I can recall. Particularly as this happened just a little while after 9-11.

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Like I said above.

Hollyweird makes BIIIG bucks out of enforcing stereotypes, etc and there are many that thing Hollyweird is the only true source for accurate info both political and historical.

I got an old book that showed how much of what people today accept today as the truth/facts are actually Hollyweird inventions.

ex: The thumb down gesture used by roman emperors to signal death for a Gladiator. No historical data to verify it, actual sign was a fist with the middle finger extending upwards.

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I know many Muslims and they are good people. Same as anyone!! It just isn`t right to say all Muslims deserve to be seen that way. No more than any Christian for the people who do wrong in the name of their religion do.

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I agree with one of the readers above who said that these things tend to go in cycles and mirror world events. During World War II, the Japanese were the villains. In the 195os, it was the Soviets and then came Fu Manchu. In the 1980s and 1990s, it was big business. Who knows who will be the next group to be portrayed as villains.

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Christians don't want to be portrayed as something evil in Hollywood for the actions of their historical predecessors. Nor do they want Nazi Christian right wingers in Idaho to define their entire faith.

The same is true for Muslims. A few people act out violently and the world portrays the entire faith in a negative light. And Hollywood had done a lot of that negative imaging.

So why is it so hard for you to understand that not all Muslims are evil any more than the fact that not all Christians are?

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"choking down chunks of dry cheese for lunch"

I don't understand that sentence, but that only increases my indignation.

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Agreed. It was very wrong for them to let that go on as long as it did today. JT should apologize for that moderator.

Moderator: Bear in mind that in your message of 11:58, you posted "I basically think Religion is one of the world’s greatest evils." This could be interpreted by many readers as hate-filled and they would certainly be within their right to demand you apologize. We did not demand that you apologize; however, the message was rightfully removed.

To all readers: Please note that the moderators do not wish to remove or edit messages but that it is the readers who lower or raise the level of discussion. It is the readers who let their emotions carry them away, not the moderators who make every effort to be neutral and fair, despite what some readers may think. However, they do not moderator for every minute of the day. Sometimes, in the space of a 10-minute break, 20 offensive messages can be posted, but we do our best to catch them all.

Finally, this discussion board is not like Yahoo's discussion board or any of the other cesspools in cyberspace. The rules are strictly enforced here because we wish to foster a mature exchange of views. It is not a question of censorship.

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Moderator. I joined this conversation today because I agreed that the moderator this morning was taking sides against Islamic people. The other two guys tried to argue why that was wrong and got deleted.

I think that was wrong. Just plain wrong.

Moderator: Well, hopefully all readers will now get the discussion back on track and talk about the story. Please see my earlier response to another reader.

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WilliB thank you for the factual background info.

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Hollywood needs to do more to counteract the negative view of Islam that the couch potatoes get when news of suicide bombers in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan dominates the news.Bollywood, Montreal and the EU can't do it alone. The US is also ready, after the warm welcome the Ground Zero Mosque received, for movies and even TV series with alternative outcomes to what unfortunately transpired in Mumbai; in Beslan, Russia; in London on 7/7; in Bali; and on 9-11 in NY and DC.

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History is clear. Every major religion, and most major ideologies have had periods of violence. I posted a list of historical dates and facts, but anyone can do 5mins research and find dozens of examples where religions or other movements acted in violence against those in opposition to them.

In this case Islam is no different than any other faith or movement. So when Hollywood or others accuse Islam of being singularly evil, that is just not in line with the facts of history and the world we live in.

That is why the arguments have been posted here today. And why having them as a part of the discussion with Hollywood will be important for teaching others that violence is a human trait and not unique to any belief system.

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prairefire. Nice try at masking a very hateful perspective.

Do you really think that all Muslims should be responsible for the actions of a radical few? All 1.82 Billion of them?

I ask again, how would you like if someone assumed all Christians were evil and ok to portray as such in cinema because of the actions of Rwandan Christian militia? Or all Americans portrayed as evil because of the actions of one of our corporations?

We forget that terror didn't happen out of the blue. There were long standing political conflicts out there that gave birth to terrorist groups and their followers. To them, the Americans were one dimensional evil characters. So how is that thinking and yours any different?

If you want to end violence, it begins by trying to learn about and understand other belief systems. It means tolerance and avoiding stereotyping in cinema as well as the rest of reality.

Otherwise, how can you condemn your enemy for seeing you as a one dimensional evil if you do the same to others?

Change has to start with us.

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"Change has to start with us."

Can I get that on a coffee mug?

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@tkoind Agree with all your posts on this subject and related matters.

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"Can I get that on a coffee mug?" How about a tattoo instead so you can inspire others.

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Sure I know that saying changes begins with us is easy to dismiss. But where else can it start?

The reason I flog history so much is that it enlightens us. Once you read and know a lot about history you start to see things in the present more clearly. You see that any nation can spawn evil or good. That any movement has the potential for either extreme. And that most people are simply trying to live a good life and take are of their own family.

If you can see that, it becomes harder to paint anyone into a black and white stereotype.

So Hollywood, media and each of us can be the catalyst for change by refusing to accept gross generalizations about other people and belief systems. Instead opting to see the exceptions as proof of the rule that no collective can be defined soley by the actions of a few.

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So get that Tattoo prairefire and do some good. ;)

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tokind2:

" prairefire. Nice try at masking a very hateful perspective. Do you really think that all Muslims should be responsible for the actions of a radical few? All 1.82 Billion of them? "

Of course not. The question is, where do these "radical few" get their ideas from? And muslim political organizations, like the Muslim Brotherhood-related "Muslim Public Affairs Council" referenced in this article, always try to muffle this question.

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WilliB. The vast majority of the 1.82 Billion Muslims out there live peaceful lives, many of them in multi-cultural settings, they are the rule not the exception.

Are there radical clerics out there who interpret Islam for violence? Yes. But there are radical clerics of right wing Christianity out there who do exactly the same thing and carry out gang and other related violence.

Do we judge the majority by the exceptions? No, of course not.

No one is trying to muffle that there are extremist voices out there. There are. That is a given. But they do not in any way represent the views of the 1.82 billion other Muslims any more than Metzger in the US represents all Christians.

So while I see where you are going with this rebuttal, I have to say it lacks any traction. You cannot and should not judge the majority by the interpretations of a very few. Otherwise we can look to the Aryan Brotherhood, Metzger, Rwandan warlords and others as definitions of the Christian world. Something that would be exactly the same kind of poor understanding and injustice to the majority of good adherents to the faith.

Moderator: Refer to Hollywood please.

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One more thing. I know a gentleman in Peshawar who has been on the Haj twice in his life. He is a good man that believes much of the hardship experienced by Pakistan in recent years is God's way of saying that the people have lost their way allowing hate to overcome love.

This man is representative of the majority of Muslims. He is a peaceful man who loves his family, works hard, tries to do the right thing. He is friendly to me, an American whose country has bombed the borders of his. Yet he treats me with profound kindness in our friendship.

Why?

Because he, like the majority of people on this planet is just trying to live a good life. Muslim, Christian, Jewish or any adherent to any other faith, the vast vast majority of people are good and loving.

This nonsense of making all Muslims out to be the enemy of western civilization is unadulterated idiocy that will only result in greater motivation for the excepted few dangerous people to rationalize their actions.

We have to stop being afraid and angry and start looking for solutions to violence in the world. Not only the extremely rare advent of terrorism, but the far more common violence and misunderstanding in ordinary home towns. Much of which is born out of the same ignorance that fosters hatred for Muslims.

Learn about others, become interested in the differences and seek out commonality. Then we can work to resist terror and violence. Failing this, we invite more violence and war.

Moderator: You're drifting off topic again. This story is about how Hollywood portrays Muslims. Posts that do not refer to this will be removed.

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The US/Gov media has been having a very hard time trying to sell the "Muslim terrorist" image and has in fact gone to the "domestic terrorist" image or just plain "violent/aggressive" image. I feel the commercials present at the SuperBowl are representative of this.

-this new image helps bring in the TSA/FEMA control grid, but many people are just moving away from US/Gov media altogether.

The coverage of Egypt is a good example: At first these protesters were terrorists, but with millions protesting and many in the crowds families -people quickly got a better true image from Al-Jazeera. -The populace had quickly moved from the false image to the more correct one and now Gov/Media had to correct itself.

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tokind2:

" Are there radical clerics out there who interpret Islam for violence? Yes. But there are radical clerics of right wing Christianity out there who do exactly the same thing and carry out gang and other related violence. " Firstly, there is no Christian counterpart Khomeinis and Al Qaradavi´s death fatwahs, to Al Quaeda, Bin Ladin, the cartoon riots, Shariah courts, Pakistans blasphmey law, etc.

Secondly, Hollywood has certainly not been going easy on fundamentalist Christians. They are often portrayed as nuts and ridiculed.

So when the Muslim Public Affairs Council asks Hollywood to blank all that out as a topic, they are trying to practise one-sided speech control. By the same token, should communists demand that Hollywood must only portray communism in a positive light?

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WilliB. Don't be absurd. No one is saying that no productions should be critical of anything, anywhere in the world. But there are issues that are more timely than others. If we are trying to resolve the problem of terror and foster greater understanding, then there needs to be more fair appraisals in the media.

That does not subvert free speech or eliminate the forum for others to voice their opinions. But as a nation and a people we should be making a greater effort towards the road to peace and not encouraging more unfounded fear. Afterall this kind of stereotyping is why a terrorist can so easily kill and innocent person or why a casualty in the mountains of Afghanistan is so easily dismissed as nothing.

The world isn't black and white. We can be critical and respectful at the same time. Go ahead and criticize the radicals who call for violence and war. But be sure to make the point that most Muslims are peaceful people. Why is that so hard? Answer. Because too many people are too narrow minded to see that the world is made up of vivid color and many points of view.

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Instead of worrying about Hollywood, how about if Muslims start making their own movies? Sheesh.

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So why don't Mohammedans, with all their petro-moolah, start making movies of their own? No one is forcing them to watch the garbage H'wood makes these days. That is how you change American minds. You beat us at what we think is our own game and make us sit up and take proper notice of you.

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tkoin2 here you show the spirit of supporting a religion. But will you show such spirit to make Islamic faith from 6th century ideology to more logic and freedom oriented faith? Didnt you see Hollywood make films like Dvichi code? why christians did not fire all the world and did not kill the director etc.. Your 1.82 billion prisoners of Islammic dictators are not evil. But I would say they do not have the freedom to think, speak and act. That is all.

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History is clear. Every major religion, and most major ideologies have had periods of violence. I posted a list of historical dates and facts, but anyone can do 5mins research and find dozens of examples where religions or other movements acted in violence against those in opposition to them.

Yes but most of us are concerned with the modern day here and not with history. No one blames all muslims. But we really roll our eyes when they just don't get that it's the bad apples giving them the bad rep. If they don't want to have the bad rep then maybe they should start filtering out hate speech from their clerics and madrasses and jail those people for spreading hate. When we start to see an effort from those so concerned with their reputation then maybe we'll stop the bad image. But so far it's hard to do that when so many lose their life to "Allah Akbar!!".

Moderator: Readers, please keep the discussion focused on the Hollywood angle.

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I'm with you Mikehuntez. How about Muslim society getting out there to hunt down the bad in their society, and show the world that they are worth believing? I say the better image starts with "good Muslims" saving the rest of the world from the terror their bad brothers are causing. Changing the angle on Hollywood movies doesn't touch the reality of the situation.

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tokind2:

" No one is trying to muffle that there are extremist voices out there. There are. That is a given. But they do not in any way represent the views of the 1.82 billion other Muslims any more than Metzger in the US represents all Christians. "

And how do you get to decide who represents what? World-wide islamic terrorism is real, it is not Hollywood invention. And opinion poll after opinion poll shows that muslim majorities would vote for Sharia if asked. That too is a fact, not a Hollywood invention. Even your Pakistani gentlemen friend who is so nice to you... do you know what he would vote for?

So what do you accomplish when you forbid Hollywood (and by extension all media) to talk about a problem? Does that solve it?

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Solidaritea:

" So why don't Mohammedans, with all their petro-moolah, start making movies of their own? "

They do. Alas, they are never critical of islamic terrorists. Instead, you find movies about the most bizarre conspiracy theories involving.... drum roll.... Israel and the Mossad. Check out for example the Turkish "Valley of the wolves" series that is such a great hit in the Middle East.

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Since 9/11, the U.S. government has gone out of it's way to NOT paint all muslims as terrorists. However, the perception of "Islam = terrorism" gets reinforced with each week's death toll in the news due to suicide/roadside bombings. It's not even a Muslim vs. American thing. Those bombings routinely kill more Muslims than Americans. When you're blowing up the people in your own religion, THAT'S where the terrorism label gets slapped-on liberally.

I wish these screenwriters luck, but the fact is that movies about normal families living a normal life (i.e. most Muslim families around the world) will not sell. There's nothing to hold the interest of the viewer.

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Muslims really need to get their own house in order for the rest of the world to take them seriously. Granted there have been isolated problems in the West but the way it is now being explained as in JT's article above just does not ring true. It's as if a simplified bogeyman is being created so that everyone can knock it down and congratulate themselves that they are improving the world.

Talent will be recognized. I do not believe there is a glass ceiling for people of any faith or race. I hope that Muslims will be free to be creative, to practice their own faith, and to be brave, objective and clear regarding extremism.

Hollywood in the meantime, especially the mass audience productions, will continue to come up with the next generation of new stereotypes, I am sure.

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"And muslim political organizations, like the Muslim Brotherhood-related "Muslim Public Affairs Council" referenced in this article, always try to muffle this question."

Willib: Please document for us how the Muslim Public Affairs Council in Hollywood is related to the Muslim Brotherhood.

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I guess this same Muslim group has already forgotten about 9/11?? So if this Muslim group thinks they will be able to influence Hollywood, where many, many Jews, that already do not trust Muslims and vice a versa, well I guess you all can get the picture, kind of like a quickly melting snowball's chance in hell, they had better try to influence Bollywood over in India and see what the majority Hindus have to say.

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Muslims must respect the freedom of expression and respect other faiths. If you are good it will show. Today is 21th. century, isn't it?

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There’s a curiosity about Islam and a curiosity about who Muslims are

um, no there's not.

There’s a demand for Muslim stories,

um, no there's not.

This piece is about Hollywood and TV. Most movie goers and TV viewers in America are not muslim, and aren't interested in anything other than time killing entertainment.

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If the muslim community wants Hollywood to portray them in a more positive way, then maybe they should try to change Hollywoods perception of how it sees Islam. At the moment, the majority of the world doesn't have the best impression of Islam and while most muslims are not crazy, radical Islamic fundamentalist. The radicals are the ones that make it bad for the majority of decent muslims. I think shows like Little Mosque on the Prairie are doing a good job at portraying muslims in a positive light, but it will be a long time before many people change their minds and feel that Islam is not a violent religion. Ultimately, that is not Hollywoods Job in general. The other alternative is to create their own network and their own shows and do it themselves. As I recall, in NY there was a man from Pakistan and the guy was a TV exec who made a local ch in trying to do just that. Change the perception of muslims and to educate people that muslims are peaceful. From what I heard it was good programming, but the guy had an ongoing divorce battle with his wife and when she decided to finally leave him, the guy killed her and decapitated her. As a matter of fact, if you goggle it or read ANY of the recent papers, this case is going to trial now, I believe.

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After portraying the japanese, indians, russians, germans as the cruelest enemies now it is the turn of the muslims.Well the muslims just need to be patient until they move to the next target.I wonder who will it be. And I was wondering, an american of muslim faith is not american?i have the feeling that most posters think that muslims is a nationality.kinose kana

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"Today is 21th. century, isn't it?" Is it? From the hatred and prejudice in many of the posts here one has to wonder if the 21st century is any more enlightened than the fifth. Sure we have great technology that allows cinema and media to foster negative ideas across the entire planet rather than just on the local street corner. And our capacity for destruction is much better now. But human thinking is just as cold and divisive as ever.

Hollywood and media in general have a profound power today. So many people out there are brain dead enough to believe anything TV or film tells them. And how many people out there actually question the portrayal of things in the media? Far too many take it as god given truth.

When you do think about radical fundamentalists they thrive on the ability of portraying the west as universally evil. That dehumanization is what makes it possible for one person to see another only as the enemy and not as a fellow human being.

We do the same with our media when we portray and entire global religion in the light of a few violent exceptions. That is a considerable injustice.

But reading this thread just makes me realize that the sheepish masses buy into whatever the media says is truth. Rather than looking at the bigger picture and discovering the world of Islam that is peaceful and no more blood stained than any other faith.

Open your minds and eyes. Radical Islam is an abberation not the rule. And you should deeply consider how you would feel if the table was turned against your faith or community. How would you feel?

Empathy is the only hope for humanity. And in far too little supply.

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I will boycott any director who makes films that portray Islam as anything other than the Religion of Peace (which is the only sane thing that came out of Bush's mouth in 8 years). I don't care who it is. And I will list the names on my blog.

Can any of my fellow progressives here name some names? Thanks, in advance.

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I don`t want to restrict free speech. But it is important to encourage balanced speech. That comes not from legislation, but from free choice to do the right thing.

It is really very wrong to portray any group as all bad. I think Tkoind2 wrote there are 1.82 bil. Muslims. And how many terrorists?

People need to be more considerate of others and think. Be good to others everybody.

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"um, no there's not." Turn off Fox and check more sources. There has been unprecidented interest in Islam in the US and UK post 911. People do want to know more and are learning more.

Try visiting a book store instead of watching TV and you will see that there are large sections on Islam in most book shops now. Why? Because people are interested and want to know more.

"This piece is about Hollywood and TV. Most movie goers and TV viewers in America are not muslim, and aren't interested in anything other than time killing entertainment."

I think there are a lot of people out there who are interested in more than just idle entertainment. Maybe you are speaking for your own circle mate. But in my world many people like to know more about the topics they view. And you are leaving out a substantial population of American Muslims who are also consumers of media and film.

The world is not black and white, nor is it so easily pigeonholed. Put down the remote, step away from the TV and learn about reality friend.

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Some great advice to be found here, I have to say.

"Try visiting a book store instead of watching TV and you will see that there are large sections on Islam in most book shops now."

tkoind2 - Can you recommend some good titles?

Moderator: That won't be necessary since this story is about movies.

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I know. How about a movie about the brave moderate Muslims who are leading the fight against the radical terrorist Muslims. Surely there must be lots of great material out there...

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yasukuni. Where do you see ordinary people fighting a resistance fight against any negative movement? Are there legions of urban American's fighting back against MS14 and 18th street? Are there stories of brave Japanese standing up against the corruption of the Yakuza risking life and limb to do so?

To expect that peaceful, non-violent Muslims would form some kind of heroic fight against radicalism just shows how much TV thinking overrides more rational thought in the world today. This is a topic for "24" not reallity.

In reality real Muslims are speaking out against extremism. People are doing what they can. You just don't care about it enough to see it. Or are waiting for some counter-terrorism force to make headlines. Nonsense, real resistance against extremism begins at home when a father and mother teach their children to be peaceful adherents to the faith.

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correction. MS13

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tokind2:

" Where do you see ordinary people fighting a resistance fight against any negative movement? "

Oh yes, there are. There were resistance movements against the bolsheviks, the nazis, you name it. And sure as hell there would be a backlash if leading Christian authorities called for terror against unbelievers or introduction of old testamentarial law in the country.

So, yes, a movie about anti-fundamentalists muslim movements would a topic for Hollywood. Maybe you can dig up some material?

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WilliB. But hardly a mojority of people in any of the cases you listed. Tiny groups by percentage of population rise up. And in all the cases you listed, these are people resisting establishment powers in a standing state. The Bolsheviks post revolution were the government of Russia. The Nazis the ruling power in Europe during their occupation of France.

In both cases the threat was to hearth and home. While Islamic extremists are not an established government in any country.

In most cases the radical Islamists are outside invisible forces that cannot be attacked like a German convoy etc...

You are thinking in absurd Hollywood terms if you expect ordinary Muslims to start military raids on terrorists.

There are Islamic governments working hard to stem terrorism. That is all anyone can realisticly expect. Turn off the TV mentality people.

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Willib. Where are the citizen militia rising up against gangs in LA? That would be a better comparison that the two irrelevant ones you offered.

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@tkoind

Can't support you in the moment with a longer comment due to logistics. But thanks for your positive efforts and thanks for keeping the flame burning.

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"So, yes, a movie about anti-fundamentalists muslim movements would a topic for Hollywood. Maybe you can dig up some material?"

So we can idealize one more group of violent people? Why do we only want to idolize the violent? I think I have far more respect for the Islamic guy in Waziristan who refuses to fight on any side, than the pro-western guy who takes up a gun to fight on our side. It takes a hell of a lot more guts and character to know that fighting accomplishes nothing but waste and hardship on all sides.

I admire the legions of people of all faiths who refuse violence as a part of their lives. It is those people who Hollywood should be making films about.

For the rest of you, turn on "24" or "The Unit" to get your violence kick for the day. Reality should be more about the peacemakers.

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"Are there legions of urban American's fighting back against MS14 and 18th street? Are there stories of brave Japanese standing up against the corruption of the Yakuza risking life and limb to do so?"

To be fair though,tkoind2, those aren't very good examples, because they are not religions.They are gangs. I am sure you didn't mean to liken Islam to organized crime though. But Hollywood IS probably harder on Islam than they are on organized gangs like the Bloods and Crips(who most screenwriters and cinema execs know are just trying to survive out there on the streets.)

I can't think of any movies that really do portray Islam in a bad light but when I do I will let people know about it.

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I thought of one- but I am sure there are many, many more almost as bad or even worse:

Alfred Hitchcock's The Man Who Knew Too Much was set in Morocco, and I remember it has a scene where a local woman's veil comes off.She was on a bus. And then a foreign guy (I think he is supposed to be a Frenchman) says something derogatory, and hateful. I don't know how I missed it at the time.

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WinTheFuture. You will note from my earlier posts that I don't distinguish between ideologies and religions. Both have similiar behavior patterns in how they are taken up, followed and the impact they have upon humanity.

Maoist philosophy was exercised with religious zeal, idol worship of the leaders and all the exclusive and often violent behaviors of many world religious histories. I can prove this correlation in behavioral similiarites between ideologies and religions with a long list of historical examples. But I will spare you that here.

Gangs are very much like fundamentalist terror groups. Driven by an idea to violence, power and a capacity to dehumanize people into nothing but targets. In practice they are quite similar in that they are not states, not practical political entities and engage in criminal behavior.

Moderator: Your posts need to refer to Hollywood, otherwise they will be removed.

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"I can prove this correlation in behavioral similiarites between ideologies and religions with a long list of historical examples. But I will spare you that here."

Thanks, tkoind2.

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Hollywood have made movies like the Kite Runner which shows very positive Islamic individuals based upon a book WinTheFuture.

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Ah...the good old golden screen days - memories of Omar Sharif! I vote Johnny Depp as the next islamic looking heart throb (assuming he wants the role). He'd probably make a great ambassador.

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More and more people are catching on to these agenda-driven stereotypes in Hollywood and are turning away. I hope to see a large increase in movies that are not driven by that agenda.

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Mainly because of the MSM and Hollywood, people have come to associate terrorism with Muslims. Despite Muslims only accounting for 6% of terrorist attacks on US soil from 1980-2005 according to FBI database. According to the database, there have actually been more from Jewish extremist groups than Muslims, yet most Americans associate terrorism with Muslims.

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@sabiwabi

Mainly because of the MSM and Hollywood, people have come to associate terrorism with Muslims

While I agree with you that Hollywood ought to take a good, long look at itself and its portrayal of Muslims, I think that maybe 9/11 had a lot to do with it.

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uh-huh if you you check IMBD, quite many ISLAMIC terrorist or actually played by dark-skinned Israeli/Jewish actors with Mediterranean/Levant phenotype

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I just can't trust muslims not because of hollywood portraying them as terrorists all the time, but because most times some public bombing or shooting spree happens it's always by some young muslim that everyone in his community said was so peaceful. Well if you mask yourself as peaceful and then let loose I don't think anyone would view even the peaceful ones without some form of suspicion. I think they deserve the bad reputation as it's their lot that cause it. Not saying it's all their faults but they can't go blaming us for viewing them in a negative light.

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Muslims - the new 'baddie' in movies. I think if you let Hollywood influence the way you view the world, then your view would be kinda effed... huge meteors falling to earth, nuclear holocaust, huge monsters in downtown NY, planes crashing, killer machines, the list is endless.

In the words of Alfred Hitchcock, 'Don't worry about it, it's only a movie.'

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mikehuntez: "I just can't trust muslims not because of hollywood portraying them as terrorists all the time, but because most times some public bombing or shooting spree happens it's always by some young muslim ...."

Really? In your community? In all the world? Utter and complete fabrication and oversimplification of reality.

Most of the violence you probably read about, shootings especially are conducted by non-Muslims in America where gun violence is the worst in the first world. Most of those people come from predominantly Christian or non-religious communities right at home in the US.

Second would be Mexico with her largely Catholic population. Most of the bombings, assasinations and mass shootings I have read about this year are drug related violence in Mexico.

You are also missing a key fact. Much of the post-colonial world was Muslim. Many of the political conflicts out there are just that, political, and have little to do with religion beyond the fact that the people involved may be Muslim. We have seen insurgents in other political movements resort to bombings in all parts of the world, this is not unique to Muslim political movements. I offer Timothy McVey (sp) and the Unibomber as some US examples.

As for shooting sprees, we have had more people killing randomly at our colleges, offices, shopping malls, city streets and government offices than we have seen Muslims shooting people in our country or in any of the other major countries. Yet I don't see you writing that you are mistrustful of students, postal workers, office guys, out of work people etc....

It is pure and simple xenophobia and prejudice that allows hollywood, the public and individuals to be fearful and to demonize Muslims. Before everyone was a afraid of the big African American or Mexican man walking on the street after dark. Now you fear Muslims. And Hollywood make it popular to do so.

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tkoind2, im afraid you are wasting your time. Hollywood has brainwashed the masses and unfortunately you are falling on def ears. These people cant see the horror that happens daily in their own backyards (for example, just watched opera last night and the rape on these young girls by their own brothers/father in Kansas and 10 more family came out after the news broke), but fear something that happens, what, once or twice in the last 100 years on US soil.

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While I agree with you that Hollywood ought to take a good, long look at itself and its portrayal of Muslims, I think that maybe 9/11 had a lot to do with it.

People have been associating terrorism with Muslims long before 9/11, this media smear campaign has been going on for decades.

But I agree that this association was greatly strengthened in those people who believe that Muslims were behind that attack.

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Fundamentalism and extremism are not the sold domain of any faith or belief system. The same fear and suspition that led Yugoslavs to slaughter their neighbors over racial divides in the Balkans war is the same fear that it making otherwise rational people condemn 1.82 billion people to the terrorist stereotype.

I think people forget that this dehumanization by film, media and individuals is what opens the door to things like the holocaust or mass killings in Bosnia. One you mentally reduce an entire group of people to the role of "other" you enable yourself and others to see those people as subhuman, dangerous and you lose all empathy for them. That is when more violent, hateful people can suggest and then get away with horrific crimes and not have society or other people stop it. Afterall, the "others" are no longer equal people in society's eyes.

That is why this blanket condemnation of Islam is so dangerous and wrong, in Hollywood and for each of you who are so quick to exhibit this behavior.

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Muslims seek change in way Hollywood movies portray them

oh get over it. Hollywood goes overboard to be PC. For the rare cases where they portray Muslim terrorists - guess what!?! Most terrorism in the world is by Muslim fundamentalists. Almost all terrorism that targets the US is by Muslim fundamentalists. AND, some mosques in the US continue to support Muslim terrorists.

If they don't like a few rare characterizations, maybe they should work to change themselves.

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Despite Muslims only accounting for 6% of terrorist attacks on US soil from 1980-2005 according to FBI database

Count how many deaths on US soil were caused by Muslims.

Also, count how many attacks are perpetrated by Muslim terrorists against US citizens overseas. I'd say the portrayals are fair.

One point about these "portrayals" - Muslims are portrayed very favorably. It is terrorists that are sometimes portrayed as Muslims (also as white surpremacists, militia members, south american drug dealers, african warlords,...), which is accurate.

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Almost all terrorism that targets the US is by Muslim fundamentalists.

You are not paying attention. According to the FBI's own database, Muslims only accounted for 6% of terrorist attacks on US soil from 1980-2005.

6% is not even close to being "almost all".

According to FBI database, during that period, there have actually been more terrorist attacks from Jewish extremist groups than Muslims.

Yet most Americans associate terrorism with Muslims, even before 9/11. Why is that? Why don't we ever see Jewish terrorists in Hollywood movies?

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Sabiwabi. Because Hollywood is business and the people want to see certain types of enemies. And right now that is the Muslim guy. Soon it will be the Chinese or Russian guy.

Thank you for pointing out some real statistics. Sadly the peanut gallery will just ignore them like they ignore all the other data, facts and related dangers that such hateful thinking exposes all of us to.

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sabiwabi -

how many deaths are caused by Muslim terrorism?

there you go.

Moderator: This question need not be answered. The subject is Hollywood.

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Why would all the Jewish people running Hollywood make a movie showing Jews as terrorists?

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"Muslims - the new 'baddie' in movies." I just watched Jewl of nile. that is 20 years old and muslims are the "bad guy" in that movie. I am pretty sure the west has always, to some degree, cast the avearge muslim as a bad guy.

and all I have to say to the muslims is GOOD LUCK!!! The is like trying to make muslim countries not HATE americans. Um hello. Only half of us voted for Bush. No reason to hate ALL of us.

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Man. The simple facts are these. Very mundane ordinary things are more likely to effect your life or kill you than terror. You are far more likely to be killed by someone you know and love than by a terrorist. You are far more likely to fall victim to a crime or a random shooting than to a terrorist. Even far more likely to kill yourself than to have anything at all to do with a terrorist in your lifetime.

The reaction out there is pure hysteria. It is rabid bunny like panic followed by irrational fears resulting in behaviors that are dangerous. Hatred is dangerous, fear is dangerous. We know this from history.

So calm down, stop watching so much TV and so many bad movies.

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tkoind2

Don't be so obsessed on this subject. How many messages have you posted on this thread anyway? The issue is simply how I described it earlier, a cyclical trend. In the past 80 years, Hollywood has chosen its villains to mirror the news events of the era. So we have seen Japanese, Nazis, North Koreans, Russians, Chinese, Colombian drug cartels, white South Africans, corporate villains and eco-terrorists in films. For the past few years, whether we like it or not, the villains of choice have been Islamic extremists. In a few years, the baddies will be someone else.

In any case, I have also seen some Hollywood films with Muslim characters portrayed positively, so it is not all bad news.

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Talking about Hollywood portrayal for Muslims. There is an interesting movie(starring Ben Kingsley) about some Iranian immigrants to the USA, later on today.

Called "House of Sand and Fog". And agree with smartacus seen quiet a few movies where muslims/middle easterners were portrayed just as another person/immigrant, etc.

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"manfromamerica: This is why the Muslims are seeking changes,because many people judge and see them only by how mainstreem sensationalized media shows us, Only believes in what CNN , FOX news and Hollywood is reporting us. Ask yourself how many Non Islam people in America who kill american citizens everyday , like gang related, normal crimes in different states all over the US alone?"

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I agree with the posts here that have talked about why people portray Muslims unfairly. Simple, people are afraid of an attack. But if you look at it closely, you can quickly see that most of that fear is not necessary. Like Tkoind2 said, lots of other things are more likely to harm you.

So why do moves and TV go to so much trouble over Islam? I think because it sells their shows. But that is wrong.

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">shootings especially are conducted by non-Muslims in America where gun violence is the worst in the first world.

Well just to remind you tkoind2 don't forget the sniper driving around in his car teaching that kid to shoot people from inside the trunk of his car was a convert. Then there was the guy in Texas who was so distraught that muslims were portrayed badly that he went on to portray them in a slightly negative way by lets say ... shooting people.

India had it's share of muslims that went into a hotel and shot up some people. I believe the number had 3 digits in it. All because they thought they could kill some foreigners there.

So yes I do believe there are shootings that are done on purpose by MUSLIMS just because they got their muslim inferiority complex that always paints themselves as a victim of something trying to justify them killing people. Isn't people like you who keep uttering the same cliches like "2 wrongs don't make a right." and stuff like that? What's different here? Trying to be too politically correct and letting them get away with the victim card. Like you were told. Muslim terrorists are real. Modern history is filled with them. And HOLLYWOOD knows this hence they portray them as such in some movies. They also portray Rambo like persons who are fictional. It's Hollywood. They do that.

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So yes I do believe there are shootings that are done on purpose by MUSLIMS just because they got their muslim inferiority complex that always paints themselves as a victim...

But you can apply the same argument to white power gangs who kill because they feel victimized by minorities. There are killers of all denominations out there. And that is really the problem. You can`t state in blanket terms that Muslims have any higher propensity for violence. The stats would not bear that out. It is propaganda and hollywood nonsense. Not reality.

Muslim terrorists are real. Modern history is filled with them. And HOLLYWOOD knows this hence they portray them as such in some movies.

Poverty is real too, but where are the movies about corporate greed and the deaths resulting from those decisions and the poverty that follows? Where are the movies about MS13 and 18th Street? Where are the movies about right wing Nazi gangs?

See there is unfair attention to one category because it feeds on the hysteria of fear in America. Not because terror is any more present than ever. But because Muslims are being demonized in the world for the actions of a very few people. And that is wrong.

Like it or not it is over xenophobia, racism and hatred. Plain and simple.

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Here here RainMonster. I agree 100%. Hollywood is making money on irrational fear based upon propaganda that has made Muslims the new bad guys.

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Dehumanize the "enemy" and no one will care what you do. How better to achieve that than through the media in this modern age? Cinema, news, TV and print all crying the same slogans, sooner or later people begin to believe and that leads to kind of open hatred we keep seeing on this topic.

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I just watched Jewl of nile

Dude, the location was the "Nile". It would be awfully strange if the bad guy were white separatists.

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"Dude, the location was the "Nile". It would be awfully strange if the bad guy were white separatists."

Your point Man? Other than watching bad old movies?

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In the past 80 years, Hollywood has chosen its villains to mirror the news events of the era. So we have seen Japanese, Nazis, North Koreans, Russians, Chinese, Colombian drug cartels, white South Africans, corporate villains and eco-terrorists in films. For the past few years, whether we like it or not, the villains of choice have been Islamic extremists. In a few years, the baddies will be someone else.

exactly. It's funny how the left wing complains because left-wing Hollywood happens to somehow not bash America once or twice.

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Only believes in what CNN , FOX news and Hollywood is reporting us. Ask yourself how many Non Islam people in America who kill american citizens everyday , like gang related, normal crimes in different states all over the US alone?"

Yes, and these people are also accurately portrayed in movies. What's your point?

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Hollywood isn't creating that fear,

Then how do you explain Gigli?

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Ok Sabiwabi l'll bite. "What you should ask yourself is why do they make movies showing Muslims as terrorists?" Because in the past 15 years nearly all terrorist attacks have been carried out by Muslims. As someone postered earlier the topical "bad guys" have always been the bad guys that are around at the time. In the 80's and early 90's it was Vietnamese and Russians, then we had Iraqis. We even had American indians at one time. It is not the grand Jewish conspiricy you fear.

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I guess all bad guys in movies should be played as rich white bankers. For some reason I think New Jack City, Alien, and 8 Mile would sure seem different...

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How should terrorists be portrayed in movies? They are already portrayed as south American drug smugglers, white supremacists, Islamic fundamentalists, African warlords, communist splinter groups, christian fanatics, evil German renegades... sounds pretty equal opportunity to me.

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AdamB and Man. You try hard to oversimplify the world. But it just doesn't work that way.

To say that all terrorist attacks have been mostly Muslim shows how little attention you pay to the world around you. There have been terrorist attacks in recent time by all kinds of groups in all corners of the world. Only a few that make headlines are terrorist attacks by Muslims.

Stop watching only Fox news and learn something about conflicts in other parts of the world.

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Manfromamerica "Yes, and these people are also accurately portrayed in movies. What's your point?"

My point is don't generalize muslims, they are the same as you and other religion. it's not just the extreme muslims who do terrible crimes and hurt american citizens or other people, extreme christians are as violent as them.

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It's ironic that one side is trying to pressure the other into 'not pressuring' us into false belief.

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How about this - wherever a Muslim is shown in a movie, they will be accompanied by a floating asterisk, with the notation appearing at the bottom of the screen "this is a fictional representation and does not represent any actual Muslim anywhere"?

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Why don't we ever see Jewish terrorists in Hollywood movies?

?????

Muslim terrorists have killed thousands on US soil, and continue to kill thousands in their own lands. They make very convincing bad guy characters for movies.

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it's not just the extreme muslims who do terrible crimes and hurt american citizens or other people, extreme christians are as violent as them.

Yes, and movies and TV have these kinds of bad guys too.

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I guess the bad guys in Da Vinci Code were Muslim terrorists? I totally missed that.

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Man, ridiculous posts mate, and on a topic with very real and dangerous consequences. Shameful.

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The PC police posters here are going off on the "bad guy roles", and totally missing the point of this group is "let's have more movies with positive caricatures of Muslims", with which I can agree.

Hollywood will listen. The industry has taken more interest in telling authentic Muslim stories in recent years, said Ahmos Hassan, a Muslim-American talent manager

See?

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Man, ridiculous posts mate, and on a topic with very real and dangerous consequences. Shameful.

anyone who disagrees with you is "ridiculous", "shameful" and "dangerous". I think you need to tone down the rhetoric.

Moderator: Everyone needs to tone down their rhetoric or some of you will be leaving us.

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No man. Anyone who doesn't take the topic seriously is ridiculous. Tell me how your random posts really deal with the issue? WTH does Davinci Code have to do with anything?

No one said "Hollywood ONLY makes bad movies about Muslims." Nor did anyone say they should never again make a movie dealing with terror. What we are saying is simple and fair, portray Muslims honestly. Terrorists do not represent the whole and it is important to show that.

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tkoind2 - Hollywood is the most left-wing industry in the country. In spite of that, I'd say their choice of bad guys of all types are fine.

What Hollywood needs are more positive characters and stories in general, about Muslims, Christians, anyone.

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What we are saying is simple and fair, portray Muslims honestly. Terrorists do not represent the whole and it is important to show that.

Actually, you were not saying that. You guys were saying racist america are lying that Muslims are terrorists, with sabiwabi adding an Israeli conspiracy angle.

As I said, the terrorist portrayals are fine and accurate. As are the prison redemption portrayals. Now, Hollywood can also focus on positive and uplifting portrayals. While they are at it, they can do the same in general about all kinds of people (black, hispanic, christian, even bankers)

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it's strange and amazing that to make a simple and accurate point "Hollywood needs more positive portrayals of Muslims", posters here are actually denying and minimizing terrorism.

A simple "show nice Muslims" would do. But instead "only 6% of terrorists"... lol

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Answer: It sells TV commercial slots and fills theatre seats. Profits.

Dream Girls. Titanic. Gladiator. Million Dollar Baby. Pirates of the Caribbean. Didn't see a Muslim terrorist in any of them. Just how many movies about Muslim terrorists do you think Hollywood actually makes?

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Man "Actually, you were not saying that. You guys were saying racist america are lying that Muslims are terrorists. " More utter nonsense!

I don't think anyone here would agree with that conclusion mate. I think my posts are clear. Muslims are not terrorists. Sure there are some terrorists who are Muslim. But that trait is not unique to their faith or belief system. Terror is a common tactic used by many groups for many causes.

My point is that America is acting out hysterically in response to terror, with too much emphasis on blaming all of Islam for the actions of a few people only. That is what we all want changed. And a more measured and reasoned approach to dealing with the problem of terror.

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tkoind2 - your whole point is to deny terrorism. Why not focus on the complete lack of movies that have positive Muslim role models? It's a simple argument that you somehow avoid.

As for the movies about bad guys, there is no problem, as Hollywood shows all types of bad guys.

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Sabiwabi & tkoind2,

Sorry for the delay in responding but you guys are slightly off track you say "say that all terrorist attacks have been mostly Muslim shows how little attention you pay to the world around you. There have been terrorist attacks in recent time by all kinds of groups in all corners of the world. Only a few that make headlines are terrorist attacks by Muslims. " now you do realise that between 1990 and 2003 there where 482 non state sponsored terrorist attacks around the world. Of them 85 were in Columbia during the drug wars and 211 have been directly connected to Muslim extremist groups around the world. So while only 6% have occured in America Sabi the figures are far higher worldwide. Love to hear your comments on that one ,

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I don't deny terrorism. But I don't freak out about it either. Terrorism exists. That is obvious. But to demonize and entire people for the actions of a few is wrong. How hard is that to understand Man?

There is little or no financial motivation for TV and movies to portray Islam as a religion of peace. Especially when movies about Muslim bad guys sell so well. And TV shows can exploit that with only tacit notes to the positive sides of Islam.

If you want to see positive Islamic references, you need to watch cinema made in the Islamic world. Cinema from Iran is often quite critical of itself while showing what real Iranians and their lives are like.

Where are more examples of this? Hollywood produces all kinds of films that are positive about other topics. Why not this one?

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Manfrom america : "movies and TV have these kinds of bad guys too." no doubt yeah...

This is where I disagree with you: "Most terrorism in the world is by Muslim fundamentalists. Almost all terrorism that targets the US is by Muslim fundamentalists."

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Manfromamerica.

I don`t get how you think Tkoind2 is in denial about terror. Seems his point is that you are in denial of the scope of terrorism.

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my point is: Hollywood should show more variety of positive movies. Muslims unfortunately are limited to largely bad guy or prison roles. Asian women are limited to prostitutes or "loose women". Asian men are limited to kung fu roles. Pakistani and Indian - good luck finding them (except as the occasional computer guy, taxi driver or deli owner roles). Hollywood needs to get more depth, and having a bigger variety of screenwriters such as this Muslim creative group is a good thing.

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Man. "Almost all terrorism that targets the US is by Muslim fundamentalists."

Not at all true! 6% of attacks. Numbers were posted above. You need to read more carefully.

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rainmonster - Muslim terrorists recently killed thousands of people on US soil. It's understandable they are one source of "bad guy" character.

Please read my post above - we need more movies not about terrorism that involve Muslim characters.

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Man. So the stereotypes are ok are they? That's the way it is so let's leave it alone? Is that your plan?

African Americans were portrayed and dancing fools in much of Hollywood's history. But that has been rightfully changed to give us actors like Denzel who any man, woman or child can look up to.

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Sarge hit on something brilliant! Have Muslims make their own movies! I would love to see how the rest of the world is portayed from the mind of a Muslim screen writer.

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tkoind2 - African-Americans are portrayed as lawyers, presidents, drug dealers, gang members, husbands/moms/fathers/mothers,... the good and the bad, though maybe more good is still needed.

We can't eliminate the bad and pretend it doesn't exist. However Hollywood needs to make more "good" roles.

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But that has been rightfully changed to give us actors like Denzel who any man, woman or child can look up to.

Even then Denzel is one of the few African-American actors given these roles. Hollywood should make more, and realize Denzel, Will Smith, Morgan Freeman and Samuel L Jackson aren't the only non-comedic African-American actors out there.

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Why don't you see the Americans killing thousands of people in US Soil? probably higher than those Muslim terrorists

You know Muslim terrorists aren't the only bad guys in movies, right?

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Have Muslims make their own movies!

What are you saying? You honestly believe there's no film industry in Iran or Turkey or Egypt? Just three Muslim countries famous for their movie output.

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Lonework : "Sarge hit on something brilliant! Have Muslims make their own movies! I would love to see how the rest of the world is portayed from the mind of a Muslim screen writer."

They can if they want to , but why not??? simple answer, because majority of Muslims that you don't know don't think like this Non Muslim Hollywood producers. All muslims that I know are peaceful, creative, civilized and peaceful people. Most of them don't hide the anger inside them, Imagine if all of them are as the barbaric violent people that most of the hollywood films and american media is showing,Imagine what would be the world today? I think all of us will be dead,And that is what you and other people don't see because you beleive too much on Hollywood films and sensationalized news, these violent muslims that we see in movies are just the 2 percent of Islam. Plus Hollywood have the access to the world! America is "THE BOSS" of the world so the distribution for Hollywood films are way more wider than Muslim films that would be probably be distributed in their own country only.

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these violent muslims that we see in movies are just the 2 percent of Islam

2% of 1billion people is quite alot. However I would doubt the accurate total is even .02%.

This terrorism issue is really irrelevant. It's simple - Hollywood, make more positive movies with Muslim characters.

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kyushujoe, I've seen movies that come from Islamic countries but unfortunately they do not have the same exposure as Hollywood movies.

nemurenaijin, I have no idea why you are commenting on my comment. I'm merely agreeing with Sarge that Muslims should have the opportunity to make Hollywood movies.

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"This terrorism issue is really irrelevant. It's simple - Hollywood, make more positive movies with Muslim characters."

Wow a 100% reversal. So now you agree with us man?

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"Sarge hit on something brilliant! Have Muslims make their own movies! I would love to see how the rest of the world is portayed from the mind of a Muslim screen writer" they do and there is a very popular muslim movie out at the moment called "Kurtlar Vadisi Irak" guess what it is! A movie were the muslims are the good guys hunting down the evil US soldiers that humiliated muslims in ABU Ghraib.

Wonder if the muslim movie makers could make a positive film about the US. And if they would live long after they did????

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Terrorism is relevant. It is why we have to talk about Hollywood and Islam in the first place. But the real issues are about how the media is defining the thinking of people in the world. And that is what we all want to see changed.

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Wow a 100% reversal. So now you agree with us man?

I've been with you from the beginning. I just think criticizing the "bad guy" roles is wrong. Just make additional and more positive films.

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"Wonder if the muslim movie makers could make a positive film about the US"

You may be surprised to find that most often cinema from Iran or other Islamic countries are often neutural or positive in their view of the US. Characters often dream of going to a better life in the US. Or they admire US culture, music etc...

I watch a lot of global cinema and the US is far more often portrayed positively than negatively.

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It's like some Italian groups complaining that so many mafia guys are named "Tony" and "Paulie". Or that Jersey Shore is promoting a stereotypical "guido" image. That's the character based on some real-life example. Are all Italians Mafia? No. Do people think all Italians are mafia? No.

In the meantime, DiCaprio, Sinatra,...

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You may be surprised to find that most often cinema from Iran or other Islamic countries are often neutural or positive in their view of the US. Characters often dream of going to a better life in the US. Or they admire US culture, music etc... I watch a lot of global cinema and the US is far more often portrayed positively than negatively.

Good insight. I wouldn't have known that.

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Man so we don't actually agree. Let me clear up why.

I think the bad guy movies are a problem and should be better thought through by Hollywood.

I do think that there should be more positive roles. We agree here.

I don't want to prevent anyone making either positive or negative, but I would expect TV and Movie production companies to make an effort to be balanced. e.g. Show a Muslim terrorist as appropriate to the story but make sure the film also reenforces the fact that extremists do not represent Islam as a whole.

How?

Add more positive Islamic characters to the story. Or even just work some exposition into the story.

Too often, and not only for Islam, serious movies fail to do this. I don't expect Rambo type films to be fair. But an average film can and should make an effort.

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tkoind2 -

How? Add more positive Islamic characters to the story. Or even just work some exposition into the story.

This is exactly what I said. Our only difference is you are saying "less terrorist portrayals", while I'm saying "those are ok because Hollywood shoes all kinds of terrorists, but need more Muslim good guys".

We mostly agree.

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Have Muslims make their own movies!

That wouldn't work. Theaters would simply refuse to show their movies.

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Have Muslims make their own movies!

Can we please get off this? I think this was just a pointless provocation that doesn't need lengthening.

Hollywood needs more originality in general. Please no more terrorist-plot movies... I think we've seen every possibility by now. And no more movies about Hollywood, we get it, "Hollywood people are so cool". And no more remakes of old TV shows.

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tkoind2- I often disagree with you, but I do appreciate your arguments, even when we get quite heated.

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Man. Me too. We talk a hard game sometimes. But I am happy that we have these spirited debates. Cheers Sir!

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tkoind2- back at ya! have a beer for me tonight.

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"spirited" is right. LOL

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It's rare but I just saw a DVD from the 1990s not too long ago, "A Perfect Murder," with Michael Douglas and Gwyneth Paltrow. David Suchet was the New York detective investigating the crime, and he was a Muslim.

Yes, quite memorable. Good one, Smartacus.

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There is little or no financial motivation for TV and movies to portray Islam as a religion of peace.

Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner! The group in this article either doesn't understand business economics, or they feel Hollywood studios should risk their money to promote a social agenda.

People often confuse the way the world actually works, with the way they think it should work.

Nobody is stopping Muslim groups from coming up with a story, pitching it to producers and executive producers to get money, and making a movie putting Muslims in a positive light, and taking a financial risk in doing so.

But they don't want to do that. They want OTHER PEOPLE to make movies, spend their money, take the financial risk in order to put Muslims in a better light.

The goal is not to spoon-feed Hollywood Muslim-friendly story lines, but to increase awareness of the diversity of American Muslims and to be a resource for writers and producers, Nassar said.

Then they've got their work cut out for them. When I watch a movie, I'm not seeking to be enlightened about diversity or anything. I just want to be entertained. I suspect most movie goers are like me.

Sure, there are plenty of independent studios that will promote their agenda, but there's not enough interest in the general public to promote a movie solely based on Muslim diversity. Potential lockbusters based only on this will be a big risk.

If it's a good story, and the Muslim diversity is incidental (like in Crossing Over, Traitor, Slumdog Millionaire) I'll see it, but again, the Muslim diversity will be incidental.

But I'm a free market capitalist, and if these guys (whom the article is about)want to put their own money on the line, more power to 'em. If there truly is a market for what they want, they'll be successful.

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Very good and smart work by the MPAC. For an ethnic group with little political clout and resources, a very wise and forward looking move. I am grateful for it.

I see some claim that working to overcome stereotyping and prejudice in media is "anti-free-market". Surely this claim came from someone who was not being stereotyped or experiencing prejudice.

Life is all about making an effort for constant improvement of self, environment, and the world; without out there is only sliding downhill to the mud-puddle where all runoff gathers and stagnates. Justifying unrestrained satiation of basest instincts under the banner of free enterprise, and even then at someone else's expense; it Stinks.

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I think Hollywood only goes with the popular trend of the day on who it portrays as villan. In the 1980s it was the big bad Russians when they invaded Afghanistan. Today it is only because of the increase in islamic extremist terrorism that it is using these characters as villans. Maybe if the muslim crowd want to make a movie equivalent of American History X would they be better accepted to show us that they are not all that bad.

A movie were the muslims are the good guys hunting down the evil US soldiers that humiliated muslims in ABU Ghraib. Wonder if the muslim movie makers could make a positive film about the US. And if they would live long after they did????

So did they portray all US soldiers in a bad way? Were the hell bent on revenge on any US soldier? Or do they cherry pick that only a few are bad? I just hope it works 2 ways here.

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tokin2. If USA stop producing any movie in Hollywood. Muslims will stop all their suicide bombing and aggression towords other religions? Will they be ready to respect other religion and cultures? NO NO WAY>>> Stop blaming holly woood. Look inside yourself to see who you are..

In Afghannistan a popular TV programe, singing contest. When a woman came to sing and she took her scarf from her head to sing. The people were ready to kill her and she is hiding somewhere now. It came on JAPAN TV documentary.

Better you people correct in your countries for 21st cetury. Then you can talk about Holly WOODS and TVs.

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I have no problem at all with religion of any denomination and believe in acknowledgement and acceptence but we shouldn't have to change our lifestyles to keep them happy. Hollwood makes so much trash anyways so why are they so concerned? Grow a humour bone...

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"My point is that America is acting out hysterically in response to terror, with too much emphasis on blaming all of Islam for the actions of a few people only."

America is a continent...actually three. Mate people develop stereotypes because sterotypes are true regardless of numbers. People from the US have a stereotype of being loud, obnoxious and full of it because a lot are. It doesn't mean all are but hey. Blaming Islam for a few people only? The actions of those few are quite severe wouldn't you say? I mean, suicide bombers taking out as many as they can deserves the image that comes with it don't you think? Mate, I know not all of Islam is not like that but when 'only a few' are causing such great effect, you can't blame people for harbouring a slightly negative view.

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Well, you haven't seen anything in this genre until you've seen the 1965 comedy "John Goldfarb, Please Come Home" which caused diplomatic incidents with various Arab states...

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Islam's decline started long before Hollywood decided to portray its followers this way or that.

Moderator: Stay on topic please.

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I don't think Islam and the Muslim world need Hollywood to address any stereotypes. Just turn on CNN, Fox, CBS, NBC, NHK, OTV, BBC, etc... and they will have all the evidence they would need to prove that their being persecuted falsle....Hey, wait a minute.

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If you look at movies and TV shows over the years you will find that there has always been one group or another as the main bad guy at one point it was the native Americans, next the Nazi and Japanese and during much of this time right up to today the Italians (Americans) have more often than not been portrayed as gangsters, blacks are often the drug dealers and pimps, Latinos the drug dealers and gang member along with blacks and Asians who are often the modern slavers and white men are the guys that are always the conspirators running the assassinations and behind the illegal control of governments and agencies.

The big problem with Islam is that unlike the 3 other main religions where movies about the founding or about important event in their founding have been made ( life of Buddha, life of Jesus, Moses, Abraham, etc...) there has and will never be a movie portraying the foundation of Islam and the reasons behind much of the misinterpreted "Jihad" and all the rest because to make a movie about Mohamed would mean some one either portraying him or even if he is never seen (as many early movies about Jesus) and only hear his voice both of these situation would lead to death threats and even riots or killings as both the portrayal of the figure and voice of Mohamed are blasphemous and punishable by death.

The best example of this was a few years back a man thinking that he would be nice and create a set of illustrated books that explained Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism and Islam for children found that even though he only showed Mohamed in silhouette or from the back and never any real picture or drawing of him just the fact that he made Mohamed "speak" in the book got him on a death list even after he apologies and recalled all the books.

How can this group hope to change thing as long as it is forbidden to use the media they wish to change to explain who they are and where it comes from.

In 3 recant Law and Order CI episodes one portrayed Islamic terrorist and the others right wing and Washington Christian nut terrorist and Latino drug cartels murder spree, this trend will continue as long as these 3 groups are in the news for these activities.

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limboinjapan.

About 20yrs ago I watched a movie about the life of Mohammed(very good) and it was done by Muslims in a way that would work. You never see or hear Mohammed, many scenes(conversations) are shot as if the viewer was Mohammed but you only hear the other person talking.

Not THAT hard to make a movie about Mohammed where he is neither seen nor heard.

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@SlidariTea

Islam's decline started long before Hollywood decided to portray its followers this way or that.

In fact, Islam's slide into decline dates from before America was even a nation.

Would you care to expand on this a little more? Why do you think Islam is in decline? It is the world's 2nd largest religion (nearly a quarter of the world's population) and growing quite steadily.

Moderator: Readers, please stay on topic. The subject is how Hollywood films portray Muslims.

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Hollywood portrays Muslims far better than Mid East TV portrays America.

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If the Muslims in general want to be seen as respectable citizens they need to stop the radicals from stealing their religion. Of course there's that small problem of the Koran saying all the violent things one should do to the infidel. Not sure how they're going to fix that one.

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It doesn't matter how Islam is portayed on film by Hollywood or any other film making region. One Muslim or another is going to be offended and start a "I hate ............... " group.

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Perhaps it is indeed time for the true Islam to stand up and be noticed as well as depicted better in the media and movies. But as I always say - charity starts at home. So if you want things to change, take charge of those that are tarnishing the image of Islam from within Islam itself, before you start to lecture those outside of Islam on the depiction of Islam!

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f the Muslims in general want to be seen as respectable citizens they need to stop the radicals from stealing their religion.ca1ic0cat

Come on, be fair. There are people already working in countries all over the Islamic world to stem the tide of terror. And a lot dying in the process. You seem to be the only one unaware that Islamic people are and have been combating terror.

Second should we blame all of Christianity when Aryan Christians blow something up and ask Christians to take care of the problem? Isn`t that what the authorities are for?

Be reasonable, you can`t expect your average Muslim to stop terror. All any normal person can do is live a good life and encourge those around them to do so too.

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Just like Christians, there are all kinds of Muslims. I grew up in a moderately Islamic country in SE Asia and those people are some of the most laid back Muslims I've ever met. Only thing they don't allow in their country is alcohol and pork, so yeah, sadly, no bacon. Here in China, the Hui or Muslims, most of them don't look different from your average Chinese bad driver. And the Uighurs, Muslims from Xinjiang look Turkish. Muslims in India look no different from their Hindu neighbours, except for the women in burqa. I believe the radical Muslims are like 1% or less of the entire Islamic community of more than a billion. The radicals are just doing a good job at grabbing headlines. This is no defense for the extremist Muslims who believe mass murder is ok if the victims are infidels(and often not). Humans are good at one thing if nothing else, killing. It's just not a Islam thing. People just need a group to spite at. But be careful, never know who's next. I see you Mennonites hiding in the corner trying not to get picked.

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Humans are good at one thing if nothing else, killing. It's just not a Islam thing. People just need a group to spite at.

I disagree. Some people can hate some other group their whole life but never do anything violent against them because they just dislike that group. However you have this small percentage of extremist muslims actually taking up their time to plot to kill people of other religions due to their own inferiority victim complex. Not only this small minority you have those that take the word of idiots like the leader of Iran when they put a fatwah on Rushdie. And the same can be said of what happened to the Van Gogh guy in The Netherlands. He made something about them and they killed him for it. If it weren't for the seemingly normal muslims that suddenly get the Don't Criticize Us Poor Poor Muslim Syndrome and start to hunt down and kill their target them maybe we wouldn't have such a bad image of them. I have seen so many people here criticize Christianity and no one from that religion has threatened to kill anyone yet. People face reality. Islam is a dangerous religion and I am not afraid to say it. I find it one of the most offensive religions going. Don't criticize it but it has the right to take your life or even World Heritage Site ancient statues are safe around it. This religion is for idiots who can't take the real world. The only time they seem to be happy with the modern world is when they are using modern weapons. This Islam personally makes me sick because it is so real. If muslims can't see that then maybe they should move out of the US, never watch another Hollywood movie and go back to where they think Islam is getting such a good reputation. I bet they won't because they are comfortable away from the crazies that infest that religion.

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Bollywood is much bigger in the Mohammedan wworld. Indian movies often debut in places like Dubai. But of course there is no anti-American angle to go with reporting on stuff like that...

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imomofo. Well written and stated.

Mikehuntez. I am sorry but you just proved Imomofo right.

"I bet they won't because they are comfortable away from the crazies that infest that religion."

Do you even know any Muslims? Do you have Muslim friends? Have you been to a Muslim country? Have you read any balanced books on Islam? Or read the Koran? Or spent any time trying to learn something first hand about Islam and Muslim people?

I have Muslim friends in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iran, Turkey. I have done business with Uyghur artisans from Kashgar and kind Islamic people from Uzbekistan.

I have studied Persian poetry, culture, music and know Japanese and other nationalities who study the arts in Tehran.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that all of these wonderful people are not happy with how the radicals stain their faith. They are all, without exception, open and loving people who are eager to share their culture and to share mine. They are good people and don't deserve to be painted in a negative light by your cultural ignorance or by Hollywood's propaganda.

We would yell and scream if the Islamic world tried to paint all Christians as evil because of the actions of a few radical right wing Christians. And we would ask ourselves, why does cinema in that region paint our peaceful culture as so evil. And we would be angry and unhappy.

Why can't you people understand that Islamic people feel that same kind of bad feeling when they are cast in the light of a few radicals? Where is the greatest of human qualities "empathy"?

Fundamentalism of any kind is dangerous. Violent radicalism is wrong. And abject prejudiced based upon ignorance of culture, religion or race is wrong.

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@limboinjapan, there was a movie about Mohamad.the title was the messenger.That movie got even the approval of Al Azar. Now concerning some comments about Muslims , terrorists and other stuff.I think that those who are complaining about Hollywood portraying Muslims in a bad way are american citizen now the posters who are talking about Al-jazeera and how the mid-east talked about Islam totally miss the point.I dont think the afghans without access to Hollywood movies does not care much about how Hollywood is portraying Muslims and even if he has access he MAY not have the right to criticize Hollywood but what where r talking now its american citizen muslims.Now those of the posters who are criticizing them and refering to Al-Jazeera and mid-east TV well, be honest, dont be hypocrite and claim that American Muslims should lose their nationality or American Muslims are second class citizen.It is easier as that.

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The stricter forms of Islam forbid the rendering of the human image, hence the elaborate calligraphy that comprises most of its art; so it may be a long, long time before they start making their own films. When Saudi Arabia started up it's own TV station, they had to get a special religious dispensation to allow live pictures to be sent over the air.

Maybe those countries with less strict interpretations and a more modern outlook can do it...

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tkoind2 at 08:48 AM JST - 14th February Do you even know any Muslims? Do you have Muslim friends? Have you been to a Muslim country? Have you read any balanced books on Islam? Or read the Koran?

Yes. Yes. Yes. No. No. I don't need to read books on religion. I don't even read anything about Christianity or Scientology. No interest. Thanks.

They are good people and don't deserve to be painted in a negative light by your cultural ignorance or by Hollywood's propaganda.Why can't you people understand that Islamic people feel that same kind of bad feeling when they are cast in the light of a few radicals?

My cultural ignorance is not what makes me recognize a fact. Islam is so dangerous to its own kind overseas and to people in many countries as illustrated by the past decade of acts committed in its name. No one is saying that all the people born under the muslim religion are bad. But we do recognize that there are quite a few that are bad and they learn their hate from their religious leaders. Ignoring that fraction of the religion doesn't make the problem go away.

Fundamentalism of any kind is dangerous. Violent radicalism is wrong. And abject prejudiced based upon ignorance of culture, religion or race is wrong.

You somehow interpret that people with anti-Islam attitudes such as myself are somehow latently racist against all muslims. That's completely wrong. But we are against these guys getting their ideals into our countries and trying to change our countries to accommodate them better like allowing them to apply their religious laws over our own national ones. This doesn't sit well with many people I know.

For these reasons I don't think it is Hollywood creating the negative image. It's the religious nuts from Islam's school of hate that are doing that and Hollywood only reflects that it is a fact of life. Sorry if all the good muslims feel that it's racism or such but hollywood tends to make what is out there. In the 80s they made movies about gangs that sold drugs for example. If they include Islamic Fundamentalist Terrorist that is just because they exist. So I guess they do make good villians since their purpose is to cause mayhem. This is a true threat not only to the USA but the world. You'll just have to get used to it that Hollywood can see it clearly.

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Most of the content coming out of Hollywood is crap anyway. What Hollywood needs are real writers and [gasp!] original ideas.

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"I don't need to read books on religion." Then how can you claim any knowledge or understanding. I am an agnostic, but I am very well read in the world's religions. Reading enables us to understand. Why would you close that off?

"Ignoring that fraction of the religion doesn't make the problem go away." Nor does demonizing the whole for the fraction of 1% of people who are extreme. Your thinking is the same as people who fear minorities because they hear that certain minorities have a higher propensity for crime. How is your critical view of all of Islam as "dangerous" any better than that kind of patent prejudice?

"as myself are somehow latently racist against all muslims." When you condemn the whole for the actions of a fraction of 1% of the total adherents to a faith, how can you claim not to be prejudiced against the faith?

"we are against these guys getting their ideals into our countries..." Why are you afraid of ideas you don't even know? You wrote yourself that you don't read about religion. How do you know their ideas are so in conflict with yours? I mean I find ordinary Islamic and Christian values to be pretty in line. Especially how ordinary people of both faiths choose to live their lives.

Maybe if you read something and learned more you could stop holding the whole responsible for the actions of a few. And your fears may resolve as well.

Look, I am not religious, but I strongly believe in the right of people to practice their faith. I see evil in many movements, but realize that the whole of most people in this world are just trying to live good lives and get by. I am against extremism of any form, including that which tries to paint others as some kind of enemy because of their faith, belief systems or race.

And FYI, I am more afraid of the conservative fundamentalists in the US than I am of the rare terrorist attack in the US. And you should be too.

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But we are against these guys getting their ideals into our countries and trying to change our countries to accommodate them better like allowing them to apply their religious laws over our own national ones.

You always hear this kind of talk. Most of the time from people who dont know much about the people they claim they arent against. Kind of convenient don`t you think? Just bunch everyone together and say they are a threat. Makes it easier for you to exclude everyone and blame it on some kind of scapegoat.

It isnt right. And I dont see anyone but Christians forcing their religious views on anyone in America. Didn`t see any Islam people doin that.

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I dont see anyone but Christians forcing their religious views on anyone in America. Didn`t see any Islam people doin that.

Not in the US, but certainly in Britain.

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But how much of that if propaganda and how much is reality? The vast majority of Muslims living abroad are living in peace with their adopted countries.

Sure there are some who are vocal about certain policies, but how is this different than any other faith?

You can blame imperialism and globalization for the fact that we live in a smaller more mixed world today. Some tension is inescapable as communities try to find their footing in each society. Like we Gaijin in Japan. We have our own views that I am sure some Japanese find imperialistic and unwelcome. Yet we want to be welcomed and to find our footing in Japan as we are now a part of the fabric here. Why would Islam be any different in looking for their place? The real question is how to best handle this inevitable discussion.

Moderator: No, the real question is how Hollywood should handle it.

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I think that is clear Moderator. They should treat it in the same manner that you and I and everyone else should. With respectful fairness. I think that is clear from my admonitions against treating all of the Islamic world with one negative portrayal based on the actions of a tiny few.

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The real question that I posed is valid for cinema too. Since the world is shrinking and cultures are no longer isolated, all societies are dealing with greater cultural mixing and conflict. These are inevitable in the world we have defined for ourselves.

Cinema can deal with this in a manner that is constructive by honestly approaching the conflicts, telling the related stories and working to be fair in their portrayals.

Or Cinema can follow propaganda lines and fuel the flames of mistrust and hatred.

We have seen both. "The Kite Runner" did a good job at balance. While many lesser films have done a lot to encourage the hatred.

What should Hollywood do? Face the intevitable question of cultural integration and co-existence and do so openly and honestly. Again keeping in mind that racism, xenophobia and hatred do us all greater harm.

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But who are going to be the bad guys, then? You can only use Nazis in movies so many times.... I guess we can always use the English ;)

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There isn't anything wrong with having bad guys. We all love a good bad guy in a movie. Take Denzel in "Training Day".

We don't try to portray all Germans as Nazis. Or all English as Imperialist soldiers with bad attitudes. So why do we so often see Muslims so universally portrayed as extreme or backwards?

The English are a good example for what should be done. We see Hugh Grant in a charming romantic comedy and think of the English as charming. We see the English in the Pirates movies as both heroes and villains. We see the English overcoming adversity in WWII movies. Then again as bad guys in some spy flick.

That is good balance. Which is all any group can expect or ask for. So have a film about Islamic terrorists, but include some Muslim characters in a NY comedy or as heroes in an ensemble piece. How hard is that for any given production house to do?

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Like in Syriana?

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Or Cinema can follow propaganda lines and fuel the flames of mistrust and hatred

H'wood is almost monolithically left wing and 'progressive' these days.in fact, if you do not share their politics you are effectively blacklisted. Yeah, McCarthyism yet lives.

So I can only guess when you say propaganda you mean the Democrat party is anti-Muslim?

We have seen both. "The Kite Runner" did a good job at balance. While many lesser films have done a lot to encourage the hatred.

The author of that novel is son of a man who fled his native Afghanistan and made his way to - wait for it - America, after having lived in Paris , where his father's consular duties had taken him.

Why did he choose America? Hmmmmm...

So why do we so often see Muslims so universally portrayed as extreme or backwards?

Can we have examples, instead of having to guess what it is you are on about?

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Holywood only puts out crap that sells tickets...or what they think sells tickets.

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Wait a minute, I thought Hollywood was Jewish, not left wing :|

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Wait a minute, I thought Hollywood was Jewish, not left wing :|

You have to understand, for some of these fools, anything to the left of Ghengis Khan is liberal.

Taka

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"as myself are somehow latently racist against all muslims." When you condemn the whole for the actions of a fraction of 1% of the total adherents to a faith, how can you claim not to be prejudiced against the faith?

Not prejudiced toward the people. But am against the religion.

How do you know their ideas are so in conflict with yours? I mean I find ordinary Islamic and Christian values to be pretty in line.

I don't. In Canada we have had honor killings (a crime). And asking to get Sharia law for the community. No way you can't supersede our laws and cannot punish people outside our Criminal Code. People have rights that Canada adheres to. Sharia takes a lot of those rights away. Many people one system or go back to where they have Sharia.

I am against extremism of any form, including that which tries to paint others as some kind of enemy because of their faith, belief systems or race.And FYI, I am more afraid of the conservative fundamentalists in the US

See you paint all conservatives in the US as fundamentalists that you fear?

If these muslims have to see the Islamic Extremist in a hollywood movie and they don't like it they'll just have to suck it up as that is what the world sees. Want muslims viewed in a better light? Feel free to write your own movies to sell to hollywood. I personally would welcome the variety.

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"H'wood is almost monolithically left wing and 'progressive' these days." Really? Based on what? Demonstrate that it is so. And in your argument include television.

"Why did he choose America? Hmmmmm..." Why do immigrants from troubled places choose European states, or Turkey, or Japan? I have met more Afghans in Istanbul than the US. Do you think Istanbul is better? Or was it just a question of choice and opportunity.

The US is a great country granted, but it is not paradice by any interpretation. So blow that horn somewhere else. I have seen enough of the world to know there are equal if not better places to live.

"Not prejudiced toward the people. But am against the religion." And Mike how do you sepatate a peaple from their beliefs? I am sure anti-semitic comments would take a similar tone. Yet I am guessing you would be offended by someone doing that. What is the difference between hating the Muslim faith and hating the people if their beliefs define who they are?

"Sharia takes a lot of those rights away." You mean unlike fundamentalist Christianity? Or like the moderate right in the US who wish to impose their religious values on women who wish to have choice in procreation? How is Islam any different than any other belief system? There are conservatives and extremes in almost any belief system. Certainly not a reason to condemn the whole for the actions of a tiny few. Most Muslims living abroad live in harmony with the laws of the land they live in. That is an honest and fair appraisal of reality.

"See you paint all conservatives in the US as fundamentalists that you fear?" Don't put words in my mouth. I did not say all. I do not lump any group into an "ALL" as that makes no sense. But it is a fair comparison between the fundamental right in the US and the portrayal you make of fundamental Islam. As I have clearly stated, all belief systems have extremes which we should not judge everyone by. Let the extremists stand for themselves apart.

"....and they don't like it they'll just have to suck it up as that is what the world sees."

Then you should not complain when Eastern cinema portrays American and Western culture as imperialistic. Or as butchers who bomb weddings and villages. Or was capitalist opportunists exploiting the poor of the world to import cheap products to a credit laden, corrupt and greedy western society.

See the sword of propaganda swings both ways. In the case of anti-western cinema is encourages the hatred that can lead to terror. It dehumanizes the western person so that a tourist can be killed as a monster without regard for his/her individual humanity.

Propagandistic cinema is dangerous. Ask people like Leni Reifensthal what the power of cinema is. When you allow a people to be defined as evil, dangerous, backwards etc... then you encourage the risk of violence and prejudiced against those people. Whether Muslim or Western the results can be deadly and people suffer the consequences of that insensitivity.

I would have a lot more respect for someone who says openly 'I hate these people" than someone who tries to rationalize it and support the defamation that media levies against an entire people for the actions of a tiny minority.

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"The Kite Runner" did a good job at balance....

OK. But the taliban banned kite flying in Afghanistan. You get extremeists of all stripes but it's been a long time since the major representatives of a whole religion were out in front preaching death to the infidel. Even the catholics have given up on the crusades.

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We don't try to portray all Germans as Nazis.

Actually, yes they do portray Germans that way. And all Asian women characters are prostitutes or sluts. All Indians and Pakistani characters are taxi drivers, IT guys, or the occasional doctor. All Mexican characters are gang members.

Hollywood needs some originality, and amazingly for such a liberal establishment, some REAL sensitivity, not "publicity" sensitivity.

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"a long time since the major representatives of a whole religion were out in front preaching death to the infidel."

What major representatives are we talking about? Sure the radical guys get much more attention than the legions of peaceful leaders of Islam. After all you can't sell commercials on CNN if there isn't something dramatic going on. People want to see the bad, so that is what you see.

I bet you don't know that some of the most respected and admired leaders of Islam in Iran are outside the government and are very pro-peace and freedom. Or that many of the Islamic leaders in Afghanistan and Pakistan are adamently against the conflicts there and wish to see peace.

There are 1.82 billion Muslims led by leaders from all over the world. The vast majority of whom preach peace.

It just shows that all you really know about Islam is what you see on TV or read in the papers. Try learning about the other side as many of us did post 911. That journey has opened our eyes to the voices of people you don't hear in mainstream media. People who are influential leaders but simply not dramatic enough to gain western film, TV or media attention.

Man, Happy Tuesday mate. Sadly what you wrote is all too often true. And I am no more happy about those stereotypes than I am about the Islamic stereotypes.

As for liberal. Ok so maybe Hollywood is culturally liberal (read as ok with sex, violence and fast living portrayals). But really, it isn't fair to call all of Hollywood politically or socially liberal. Not when so much of it is pure 100% profit motive and so much of the rest of it is propaganda.

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