'Don't say gay:' Sex education fuels U.S. culture wars

"Across the country, we're seeing Republican leaders take actions to regulate what students can or cannot read, what they can or cannot learn, and most troubling, who they can or cannot be," White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki told reporters.

She obviously lacks even a minimal sense of irony, considering that's exactly what the Democrats have been doing for decades now.

Gay means happy. What's wrong with Happy?

...would ban teachers from discussing questions of gender identity or sexual orientation with students below a certain age.

What age are they talking about here? Can't news articles provide important points pertaining to issues anymore? Such mediocre reporting.

What age are they talking about here? Can't news articles provide important points pertaining to issues anymore? Such mediocre reporting.

The law is ambiguous in that regard. Some say it applies only to primary school but others say the actual wording is so vague it could end up applying to all grades.

If I don't see it and don't hear it, it doesn't exist. Right?

Sometimes teachers are the only people kids feel safe talking to. If you had a violently anti-gay parent, who wanted to send you to church camp or conversion therapy to "pray away the gay", or who otherwise made you feel something was wrong with you, then your teacher would be your savior and only hope of escape.

These parents are abusing their children, and as far as I'm concerned, in treating them this way they lose all parental rights to raise them "as they see fit". Simply put, if your idea of a fit way to raise a child is to make them hate themselves, that's child abuse.

Also, do these people not realize that there are gay teachers? Are these teachers supposed to censor themselves and just never, ever mention their partner or family, and deny who they are?

This is just conservatives' way of trying to force people back into the closet. And it is NOT going to happen - we have only just begun to fight.

This, from the people who love to shout "FREEDOM" at people who just want them to wear a mask and prevent the spread of disease, and should "CENSORSHIP" at people who criticize transphobic jokes on TV.

Let's just take a step back now and ask who are the real baddies in this scenario: people who just want to live their best and most honest lives, and loving one another, or the people who want to have the right to discriminate and express hatred and bigotry?

“Won’t somebody think of the children ?” … is always really about the adults.

She obviously lacks even a minimal sense of irony, considering that's exactly what the Democrats have been doing for decades now.

Except this isn't true.

The fact that many lesbians don't consider transwomen to be potential dating partners is turning out to be a rather problematic conundrum for the entire community.

No it isn't.

So, they introduce bills banning teachers from teaching kids about real world facts, cause it goes against the conservative dogmas.. we've never left the dark ages.

So, they introduce bills banning teachers from teaching kids about real world facts, cause it goes against the conservative dogmas.. we've never left the dark ages.

A Republican preacher literally held a book burning in Tennessee last week.

The right literally think that anything that doesn't match exactly onto their bigotry should be destroyed.

So if we can't call them gays, what do we call them? Sodomites? Homosexuals? Same sex lovers?

I though gay was introduced to make it more palatable to the straight or normal folk.

Floriduh. I'm a Floridian living in Japan. DeSantis, aka "DeathSantis', is making a play for the presidency and hopes to win more conservative voters over to his side nationally by trying to back controversial legislation.

If one believes that (most) all sexual practices are morally neutral or even positive, then it follows that children ought to be taught about them in a morally neutral or even positive way. Many people, including myself, decidedly do not believe that and thus do not wish to see schools become propaganda organs for notions that they abhor. It is true that there are many bad parents. Parents who are unfaithful and irresponsible in their own sexual conduct are one example. Parents who teach their children to hate homosexuals as homosexuals are another. But it is possible to uphold traditional teachings about sexuality without being a hater...Unfortunately, there are fanatics on both sides of the issue who make rational discussion nearly impossible.

If one believes that (most) all sexual practices are morally neutral or even positive, then it follows that children ought to be taught about them in a morally neutral or even positive way. 

Yes.

Many people, including myself, decidedly do not believe that

Why?

Put that crap into the education system. I say what I have learned to call it and the youngsters may later say whatever they are now taught to call it. I am surely not willing to learn a whole new vocabulary right from scratch again.

Khuniri Today 06:02 pm JST

If one believes that (most) all sexual practices are morally neutral or even positive, then it follows that children ought to be taught about them in a morally neutral or even positive way. Many people, including myself, decidedly do not believe that and thus do not wish to see schools become propaganda organs for notions that they abhor. It is true that there are many bad parents. Parents who are unfaithful and irresponsible in their own sexual conduct are one example. Parents who teach their children to hate homosexuals as homosexuals are another. But it is possible to uphold traditional teachings about sexuality without being a hater...Unfortunately, there are fanatics on both sides of the issue who make rational discussion nearly impossible.

No, it is not.

There is no compromise point between "gay is both moral and valid" and "gay is abhorrent". A parent can't tell tell their gay child that being gay is bad or immoral or that the child should "abhor" their homosexuality without causing that child irreparable harm.

I don't know how much time you've spent in the LGBTQIA community, but I can't count the number of late-night tearful conversations I've had with young gay men and women who spilled tale after tale of how their parents made them feel like an abomination and destroyed their self-worth and self-confidence. It takes years and years to get that self-worth back, and some of them never do, and are scarred forever. The hurt is deep - it tears apart families, and is the reason for elevated rates of suicide among LTBTQIA teens and young adults.

Agree to disagree is for things like pineapple on pizza - not homophobia and human rights. This includes the right to love and marry, the right to be treated equally and not be discriminated against, the right to live your life openly and honestly without politicians degrading you and openly accusing you of being immoral and rallying a entire country against you. This is not a mere "difference of opinion" - gay rights are civil rights and a moral imperative.

Now they've change it to "Don't SAY 'gay'" because when they just said they need to ban homosexual content/incest, abuse, etc. someone rightly pointed out the Bible needs to be banned and they were at a loss for words.

And in any case, with this law for sewing teachers, I'm pretty sure they just want teachers to quit and people to be uneducated -- that is the GOP base, after all.

oKay my friend, you seem quite conflicted lately between personal ideals and political ideologies @TokyoLiving 7:08pm. Less than 24hrs ago, you were wishing for China to bring their special brand of censorship to the U.S. As stated this morning, “One cannot serve two masters.” Sadly, one day you may be forced to choose.

*- @TokyoLiving 7:08pm: “Medieval third World country..” -*

To Express Sister:

No sane person believes that there are no “rules” regarding sex. We differ about what they they should be. We generally agree that what Jeffrey Epstein and his friends did was terribly wrong. We may disagree about the acceptability of pre- and extra-marital sex. Schools should not be the sole arbiters regarding such questions.

Republicans say they too are motivated by a desire to protect children -- from subjects they believe to be inappropriate for a young age.

But have no problem with buying them guns.

Live and let live and don't teach children how not to live in the real world.

The BS being bandied around in the US and elsewhere is laughable, at least to me. I come from an age where being described as a "bachelor gay" had a totally different meaning to that which it has now.

-Across the country, we're seeing Republican leaders take actions to regulate what students can or cannot read, what they can or cannot learn, and most troubling, who they can or cannot be.

Woke activists have been doing exactly the same. It's a culture war, two sides going head-to-head with lots of toxic consequences from both.

-a woman whose 13-year-old had met with school counselors about their gender identity without notifying her.

If the kid didn't feel able to speak to their mother about it, the mother needs to take a long hard look at her parenting, or her sprog is going to escape the family home at the first opportunity and not go back.

America seems to be a terrible place to be a teacher right now. The worker shortage should give them an option to escape from the crossfire (literally, in some cases, this being the US) and choose a less stressful profession.

No sane person believes that there are no “rules” regarding sex.

Good thing no-one said that, then, isn't it?

We differ about what they they should be.

"Let's not educate children about sex, homosexuality, or gender" is a bad rule.

We generally agree that what Jeffrey Epstein and his friends did was terribly wrong. We may disagree about the acceptability of pre- and extra-marital sex.

Equating raping children with pre-marital sex is absurd, just by the by.

Schools should not be the sole arbiters regarding such questions.

Schools should be the sole arbiter in education.

GBR48Feb. 17 08:10 am JST

Woke activists have been doing exactly the same. It's a culture war, two sides going head-to-head with lots of toxic consequences from both.

I wish people would stop equating those who want the right to discriminate against LGBTQIA, and those who try to make the discrimination stop by making sure there are social consequences for hate speech. I.e., Dave Chapelle can eff right off.

Put that crap into the education system. I say what I have learned to call it and the youngsters may later say whatever they are now taught to call it. I am surely not willing to learn a whole new vocabulary right from scratch again.

I better don't even say what I have learned to call it - otherwise this account will be fried. Just one thing: Stay away with "wokeness" and and all that other gender nonsense.

So, the state starts confusing the child with ‘identity education’ and parents are left wondering how their child can be a male when it was obvious at birth that the child was not.

It is not up to the state to tell my child what it is or isn’t…

-Schools should be the sole arbiter in education.

You won't find many parents agreeing with that. Activists and politicians also want their say. In most 1st world countries, teachers teach a syllabus created by a government-funded entity. Individual schools have little say unless they are given options based upon different exam boards, and they rarely differ by much.

Teachers had some freedom in how they taught, but they are increasingly monitored by parents and activists from the left and right, as the article indicates. They will inevitably upset one or the other group, which is why teaching is increasingly becoming a career to escape from. Who wants to spend their career running through minefields in a culture war?

Incidentally, teachers in the UK have just been given guidance on avoiding bias in teaching. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-60405521

My best teacher at school was known as 'Red Ken' for his avowedly left-wing views. He was inspirational, excellent at teaching (we were not an easy class) and universally popular. I'm not sure he would survive a term nowadays.

Quite a misleading article. Afaic, the resistance is not a against traditional sex education, but the new woke agenda with gender identity, gender-fluid childrens books, drag queen readings for elementary kids, secret counselling on sex change, multiple invented pronouns, banning of traditional literature like Dr Seuss and replacing them them woke propaganda including hardcore porn, etc etc.

And it is not only "conservative" parents who disagree with the activism.

It's weird how the US is both at the forefront of sexual rights, and also contains the most vehement anti QUEER people on the planet.

WilliB Feb. 20 12:18 am JST

Quite a misleading article. Afaic, the resistance is not a against traditional sex education, but the new woke agenda with gender identity, gender-fluid childrens books, drag queen readings for elementary kids, secret counselling on sex change, multiple invented pronouns,

Children are LGBTQIA themselves, and have LGBTQIA family members, teachers, friends, friends' parents, neighbors ... are you saying that we should not talk to children about the people who are all around them, pretend they don't exist, pretend they are a dirty secret we must cover up?

It's more about kids being open-minded than anything else. What you're actually afraid of is that telling kids that gay is a thing that exists will make them accept it without question. And yes, that IS our goal. That is, our goal is stamping out bigotry against LGBTQIA.

banning of traditional literature like Dr Seuss and replacing them them woke propaganda including hardcore porn, etc etc.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with LGBTQIA.

And it is not only "conservative" parents who disagree with the activism.

Yes, it is. It's 100% conservatives who don't want their kids knowing gay is a thing that exists. Because again, conservatives don't want their children to grow up with the belief that gay is okay.

But it's too late, you know. We are everywhere, and there is no stopping our agenda - yes, agenda! The agenda of living and loving openly and honestly, free from bigotry.

Shocking, huh.

kurisupisu Feb. 18 09:17 pm JST

So, the state starts confusing the child with ‘identity education’ and parents are left wondering how their child can be a male when it was obvious at birth that the child was not.

There is no such thing as "identity education" that is going to change a child from being cis and straight to being transgender and/or gay.

This is not a thing. What you're saying is not true, not possible, goes against all science and all psychology, and is made-up, misinformation. Bologna. Bull puckey. Bunk, drivel, rubbish, gibberish, nonsense - pick your word.

It is not up to the state to tell my child what it is or isn’t…

Again, this is not a thing. And in case you aren't clear on this, it's not up to anyone to "tell" your child whether the child is cisgender, transgender, gender fluid, or anything else - the child will know who they are when the time comes. The only thing that is up to you is to love your child unconditionally, no matter their gender or sexuality. Can you do that?

As a parent. one teaches their child basic facts and provides fundamental guidance. This includes what is right, what is wrong, simple morality, and what it means to be a boy or girl from a biological perspective. The son or daughter can then determine how he or she wants to act in society, and if the boy wants to display feminine qualities or if the girl wants to display masculine qualities, each has the right to do so.

girl_in_tokyo

Children are LGBTQIA themselves, and have LGBTQIA family members, teachers, friends, friends' parents, neighbors ... are you saying that we should not talk to children about the people who are all around them, pretend they don't exist, pretend they are a dirty secret we must cover up?

Children should be allowed to be children, and not be artificially sexualized in school, and certainly not with the radical woke genderism ideology that is now running rampant.

WilliBToday 11:01 pm JST

Children should be allowed to be children, and not be artificially sexualized in school, and certainly not with the radical woke genderism ideology that is now running rampant.

How are children not going to be children just because they know that some people aren't straight?

It took nothing whatsoever away from my nieces' and nephews' childhood to know their uncle had a husband. And it takes nothing away from any child's childhood if they happen to have a classmate whose parents are the same gender. It also takes nothing away if they see a lesbian couple at the supermarket holding hands, ask mommy why those ladies are holding hands, and learn that some women love other women.

I'd be curious to know if you can come up with any scenario that demonstrates that children won't be children if they learn about the existence of LTBGQIA.

People, before you argue, PLEASE use the correct acronym.

It is 2SLGBTQQIA+

Next, since all people who can be covered under that umbrella probably amount to somewhat less than 5% of the population, that is also how much of the sex ed curriculum should be devoted to it. The moral guidance aspect is the realm of the parents/family, not the school.

girl_in_tokyo

How are children not going to be children just because they know that some people aren't straight?

At the ages this stuff is introduced now, children do not even know straight or gay is. And once they old enough they find out about sexual orientation without the school interfering in that.

And again, this article is whitewashing the issue. The genderism that is pushed on on children in many place is much more sinister than just talking abot sex.

AttilathehungryFeb. 21 11:34 pm JST

People, before you argue, PLEASE use the correct acronym.

It is 2SLGBTQQIA+

Do you make fun of all acronyms, or just this one? I think it's rude to make fun of people, particularly punching down.

Next, since all people who can be covered under that umbrella probably amount to somewhat less than 5% of the population, that is also how much of the sex ed curriculum should be devoted to it. The moral guidance aspect is the realm of the parents/family, not the school.

Are you saying that the population of a particular group of people needs to be above a certain number before it can be seen as important or worthy of attention or care? Not sure if that is what you mean, but FYI there are 7.9 billion people in the world, and 5% of that is 395,000,000. That's more than the population of the US.

I'm curious as to what you know about this curriculum devoted to LGBTQIA. Do you have the syllabus? Please, do inform everyone here what is in this curriculum, if it exists. Assuming of course, you actually know that it does.

WilliBFeb. 21 11:37 pm JST

How are children not going to be children just because they know that some people aren't straight?

At the ages this stuff is introduced now, children do not even know straight or gay is. And once they old enough they find out about sexual orientation without the school interfering in that.

This doesn't really answer my question. How are children not going to be children just because they learn that LGBTQIA exist? You're avoiding the question.

Children very often learn about LGBTQIA before they even reach school age, because, as I said before, they have LGBTQIA people in their lives. And I'm not sure why you think, as others here also seem to think, that schools have curriculum devoted to this. What is in this curriculum, exactly? Because if you look online, you can find educational guidelines, including learning aims and syllabi, online at the Department of Education. I can't find "LGBTQIA 101" anywhere.

Sex ed doesn't even start until junior high, and the vast majority of schools' sex ed programs don't even mention transgenderism or sexual orientation because, of course, there are so many people prejudiced against LGBTQIA and for some weird reason think that a 14 year old who knows of their existence will suddenly turn gay, totally out of the blue.

And again, this article is whitewashing the issue. The genderism that is pushed on on children in many place is much more sinister than just talking abot sex.

There is no such word as "genderism" and and I'm not sure what it is you think is being pushed on children, that is so sinister.

I'm curious what you think "genderism" is, and how exactly it is being "pushed" by schools. Can you elaborate? Because I think we have established that 1) children often already know about the existence of LGBTQIA before they are even school age; 2) there is no curriculum specifically devoted to LGBTQIA in schools; 3) sex ed in many schools doesn't begin until junior high; and 4) many sex ed programs don't even mention LGBTQIA because people are homophobic and transphobic, and think learning about LGBTQIA existence will turn them gay.

Strange how these rumors persist, despite facts to the contrary, isn't it.

girl_in_tokyo

Children very often learn about LGBTQIA before they even reach school age, because, as I said before, they have LGBTQIA people in their lives.

Children below school age do not know or care about sex and should not be sexualized. Are you not typically one of the first posters here to condemn child abuse?

WilliB Today 09:38 am JST

Children below school age do not know or care about sex and should not be sexualized. Are you not typically one of the first posters here to condemn child abuse?

When you introduce your wife to others, do you say "This is the person I'm having sex with. We enjoy vaginal penetration and 69ing." Or do you say, "This is my wife, Tabitha"?

I don't see why someone would equate knowing someone is married or has a romantic partner, with talking about sex and sexualizing themselves. Simply telling a child, "This is uncle Dave's boyfriend" isn't akin to talking to that that child about gay sex.

It's very telling to me when the first place a person's mind goes when someone says the word "gay" is "gay sex" and not "loving partners." Is this not that person's own personal prejudice to deal with? Why would anyone expect gay people to tiptoe around others' personal discomfort with their existence, to the point where they are not allowed to even mention that they have a romantic partner? Why should we go back into the closet and hide ourselves away from the world just because certain people think gay sex is icky and can't help themselves picturing it in their heads when they see a gay couple?

And you still haven't explained how knowing that LGBTQIA people exist takes something away from their childhood, either, especially considering that we are 5% of the population, which means there is a high chance that each and every person has some personal connection with someone who is LGBTQIA, whether that be a family member, a friend's parents, a teacher at their school, a co-worker, or a neighbor.

Again, I think the real problem here is that people know that telling a child "This is Uncle Dave's boyfriend" and then treating Uncle Dave and his partner like everyone else is treated will send a message to the child that this is NORMAL, acceptable, and that gay is okay. This is the true intention of this law: to stop us from normalizing, and thus ending the prejudice against, LGBTQIA.

Sorry, too late for that. Our agenda proceeds apace. Whoo-whoo! Get on board the gay train! ;)

girl_in_tokyo

When you introduce your wife to others, do you say "This is the person I'm having sex with. We enjoy vaginal penetration and 69ing."

Well, that is what the genderists who you support want to introduce for pre-schoolers, by bombarding them with all sorts of sexual preferences, while the kids at that age neither do nor should know or care about sex.

Own-goal very much?

WilliB Today 01:44 pm JST

Well, that is what the genderists who you support want to introduce for pre-schoolers, by bombarding them with all sorts of sexual preferences, while the kids at that age neither do nor should know or care about sex.

Genderist? What does that even mean?

I already asked you this, but it bears repeating: what does sexual orientation have to do with sexual practices?

Why, when someone says the word "gay," would the listening automatically think "sex"?

No one is is advocating for teaching children about sexual practices.

It's utter nonsense.

Not too long ago prominent Democrats were pushing for censorship and labels on music they deemed harmful to the youth.

Didn't like that because that is the type of choice that should be made by parents (or any adult).

Descovich cited the example of a woman whose 13-year-old had met with school counselors about their gender identity without notifying her, including to decide "which restroom she was going to use"

In the above does 'their' refer to the school counselors? Why is gender identity being discussed in school? The 13-year-old is either a male or female student. In line with the biology class being taught at that age.

Let the parents discuss any gender identity issues with their child. If the student wants to inform other students or whoever at school that the student is leaning towards masculine feelings or feminine feelings that certain day, fine---just don't change the textbooks for everyone else. And don't have the teachers or counselors initiate those discussions.

It really is incredible how much bigotry there is against trans people in this world, when all they want is to live a normal life just like everyone else.