U.S. voting systems reliable, despite conspiracies

In Georgia, the presidential vote was counted three times -- once entirely by hand -- and each tally affirmed President Joe Biden’s win in the state.

The biggest irony for some the horde of election deniers in this midterm, like Rep. Scott Perry of Pennsylvania, is they deny Biden's victory in the same election where they won election or re-election.

The elections are only rigged when they lose.

I worry that extremists are intentionally working to undermine the electoral process.

Conspiracy theories like "collusion with a foreign country" only serve to undermine trust and legitimacy of elections

Just because the media says it doesn’t mean that it’s true.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2022/07/26/misinformation-is-eroding-the-publics-confidence-in-democracy/

As I feel the same with yours.

Facts don't care about your feelings.

The links given as support actively undermine the assertion you are making.

It is an egregious logical fallacy.

For example, here is an article about the rampant election denial in Pennsylvania I mentioned above.

U.S. voting systems reliable, despite conspiracies

Of course, there was no conspiracy when Hillary lost.

Bob FosseToday  10:44 am JST 

This article for example blames misinformation on 45’s big lie and current candidates who are still spreading the same big lie.

It is interesting getting a non-US citizen's perspective in these matters, where their information comes from CNN or opinion articles like these.

As the article states, the MAGA candidates are responsible for this metastasis.

https://www.penncapital-star.com/commentary/these-are-the-election-deniers-on-the-pa-ballot-in-2022-friday-morning-coffee/

Facts don't care about your feelings.

Gosh, I hope the left hears that statement, well said.

The links given as support actively undermine the assertion you are making. 

I disagree. The funny thing is, the left side ants to make this a one-sided political argument and it’s not. The powers that be which are mostly liberal in the print and TV arena have the final say so the left doesn’t allow for diverse opinions or various discussions on the issue of voting, it’s our way, we hold the floor to talk about J6 and nothing else, so instead of fighting, the politicians will be replaced, then we can talk about it without being silenced, all Americans have the right to be heard and not just the people now in charge that feel they have the right to make that decision for half of the nation.

It is an egregious logical fallacy. 

It is indeed egregious!

And as the next 3 weeks roll on, more questions will be asked about the security, safety and accuracy of the system.

How long will the Dems want to talk about this? Beyond November? In 2 years perhaps?

It isn’t ‘the Dems’ talking about it and you know this.

Have you heard 45 recently?

It is interesting getting a non-US citizen's perspective in these matters, where their information comes from CNN or opinion articles like these.

Sure. I value your input on Liverpool FC. Oh wait, you’re British.

It isn’t ‘the Dems’ talking about it and you know this. 

Have you heard 45 recently?

Yes, it is the Democrats talking about how secure voting is and half the country doesn’t believe that, I’m just one person, there’s 74 million people out there that I don’t trust the system, that’s just a fact, and the Dems can’t run from it, I don’t care what Trump says, it’s not about him per se at this moment, it’s looking into the future starting from this midterm going forward, so instead of the Democrats and liberals in the media say, there’s nothing wrong with the system, we should debated because half the country disagrees, so there is in fact, a problem, and that is something that you want to avoid.

there’s 74 million people out there that I don’t trust the system, that’s just a fact

That isn’t a fact.

Read the article you posted a link to above.

Read it slowly.

How long will the Dems want to talk about this? Beyond November? In 2 years perhaps? Time doesn’t stand still, other elections will come. Good time we focus on those as well and to make sure no cheating occurs or any irregularities happen

How?

You are believer in the 2020 election being stolen ( I’m not sure if you’re on board with Trump’s claim of mass voter fraud in 2016 too ).

What makes you think the November elections will be clean?

That isn’t a fact. 

It is

Read the article you posted a link to above. 

Read it slowly.

I did and I’m just saying, we or rather the left wants to beat and tenderize this topic, they have and the other half of the country wants to talk about the other issue tied to this. Look, if the left just wants to drone on Trump, I’m ok with it, you have about 3 weeks left, but if you want dialogue, let’s talk about upcoming voter concerns, anxieties interpretations, we will already know what happened on January 6 come, we all know what happened with the voting regular it, it’s all just regurgitated hash, so now that that election is in the past, we need to look forward and so far there’s not a lot of confidence going into future elections, and primarily the reason for that is there just not being addressed, because the Democrats want to keep the focus on the last election.

I did and I’m just saying, we or rather the left

Since the topic of "the left" gets beaten to death in these posts and used incorrectly, I will step forward as de facto representative of the "left" like Slavoj Žižek.

I reckon I am the only "leftist" on this thread.

I see quite a few centrists and center-right.

As for the "left's" opinion on elections, the way the MAGA cultists characterize rigging is irrelevant. When corporations have the wealth to buy political influence and lobby through decisions like Citizen's United, control the media narrative ; stuffing ballots is irrelevant.

And a bit of friendly advice; working on the precision of your language and vocabulary makes your argument more appealing to a broader audience you are maybe trying to reach. Since polls and election results seem to be so important to you.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2022/07/26/misinformation-is-eroding-the-publics-confidence-in-democracy/

It's literally in the title of the article. "Misinformation" and not voter fraud is eroding the public's confidence in democracy.

And where did all this disinformation come from? It came from Trump and his merry band of morons.

"I am not alledging fraud. All I am saying is that my constituents are concerned." is the typical deflection.

And why are they concerned? Oh, it's because the GQP and it's toadies on Faux "news" keep spreading outright lies about voter fraud. (Well, not Faux so much anymore since they got concerned about being on the hook for a billlion dollar defamation claim. Where have you gone, Lou Dobbs?)

I’m just one person, there’s 74 million people out there that I don’t trust the system

This isn't remotely accurate. There is a portion of 74 million people who don't trust the system and where to even begin?

Let's start with the easiest part; They are wrong. There was no widespread organized fraud. Their feelings (or yours, Silly B) are no substitute for the truth.

Their guy lost. Tough luck. There was no fraud. So says Trump's hand-picked election security specialist. So say the courts. So say the recounts. So say the facts.

There. Was. No. Fraud.

More likely, they are irked because their candidate, to whom they give an almost cult-like allegience lost and they cannot figure out why a lying, narcissitic sociopath with an origin story bulit on nothing but lies and fraud would NOT be chosen.

Why indeed? I mean, this was the guy who mangled a global pandemic and personified incompetence. Of course his rubes would want him for 4 more years.

That isn’t a fact

It is

The burden is on you to prove that.

Your article certainly doesn’t say that.

Why the insistence on electronic voting machines? Why not just use paper ballots?

Speed primarily, and accuracy too. Hand counting ballots in big cities or counties like Los Angeles County with its nearly ten million inhabitants would require a week or more to hand count ballots where machines can do so in hours.

Fraud? Rigged?

Giuliani admitted twice, once under oath, that "this is not a fraud case" and "we have lots of theories, just no evidence"....

https://www.businessinsider.com/rudy-giuliani-voter-fraud-evidence-rusty-bowers-testimony-jan6-committee-2022-6

The Arizona audit by a GOP-selected Trump-friendly company found no fraud and MORE votes for Biden...

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/24/1040327483/the-controversial-election-review-in-arizona-confirms-bidens-win

Trump even admitted just after Nov 5th before the crazies got through the doors that he lost...

https://www.axios.com/2022/06/19/trump-admitted-election-alyssa-farah

The Big Lie just supports the Big Scam, as Trump fleeces his supporters out of more of their money...

One wonders if they have any left...

What makes you think the November elections will be clean?

Easy, you will have more moderators put in place, you have more conservatives are allowed to view the voting process and they won’t be stopping of the count or going home for the day, or closed windows or denying them the right to view the process, that’s not going to happen, not to mention that it’s pretty much all done deal and the Democrats at this point pretty much have no hope of retaining the house, I think Pelosi is already looking at it ambassadorship in Italy, if so, that’s culturally a good thing for her.

Speed primarily

Why rush it? Stacy Abrams and Al Gore wanted every ballot hand counted. Every other country does it. We can as well.

and accuracy too. Hand counting ballots in big cities or counties like Los Angeles County with its nearly ten million inhabitants would require a week or more to hand count ballots where machines can do so in hours.*

There are so many people that need jobs like all the migrants that this administration let in. Pay them a good wage about $25-30 an hour and they will get the job done in a timely and accurate fashion, better than being on the streets or washing dishes.

So far nobody has demonstrated a way for an outside party to manipulate voting machines in the manner that is alleged by the vote deniers. So far all the have are allegations but they cannot demonstrate an actual technique some malevolent party could use to change the vote on voting machines. Allegations without any material facts to back them. That is all they have.

What is also interesting is how many Republicans won elections to seats on the House of Representatives, US Senate and statewide offices. So only the vote for President was altered? All those supposedly fraudulent mail in ballots that were counted had votes for a Democratic President but provided majorities for other Republican candidates in down-ballot elections? Hard to believe. And so far the only acts of verifiable voting fraud were minor and conducted by Republicans for Republican candidates.

When I was a kid and someone complained about the smell of flatulence we would say "he who smelt it, dealt it". I think the same principal applies to the Repubelicken voter fraud claims.

Bass the bottom line is that when people are no longer willing to accept losing an election you no longer have a functioning democracy. Period. Full stop. After that your nation dissolves. That is where the Republican Party is driving the US, to dissolution. I also know because I'm an old white guy and neighbors and strangers just assume that I am like them that dissolution is what some whites want. Not all but enough, especially in more conservative areas like where I live. Some tell me my home state should be expelled from the US. To be honest I think that would be the very best thing but fear it would not be a bloodless divorce like that of the Czech and Slovak republic's "Velvet Divorce".

I'm an old white guy who knows all the coded words and what old whites really think. I heard some neighbors saying things like "that N____r ain't my President" when Mr. Obama won the Presidency. There were even "Impeach Obama" bumper stickers before he was inaugurated ! I've had my fat welfare queen cousin who never did anything but take the governments money that I, her naval officer cousin could never be a "loyal American" if I wasn't Christian. That is what is out there in white America today and those are the people who are now no longer able to accept losing elections. They want to destroy the US, yes they do, because they and their bigoted ways are no longer acceptable to a majority of Americans in many places and increasingly whites are a minority of the people. If whites can't be on top then destroy it. That is what drives this.

Bass the bottom line is that when people are no longer willing to accept losing an election you no longer have a functioning democracy. Period. Full stop.

And the bottom line is when you’re not allowing the other side to voice, their concerns about voter fraud, about voter ID laws, when you are unwilling to allow conservatives to view the political process, then you no longer have a functioning democracy. Period-full stop.

After that your nation dissolves. That is where the Republican Party is driving the US, to dissolution.

I would say that is where the Democrat party is driving the nation.

They want to destroy the US, yes they do,

No, they do not, they don’t want the US to go down the tubes and become a progressive socialist nation that is bent on woke and genderism ruled by the rich white liberal elites.

because they and their bigoted ways are no longer acceptable to a majority of Americans in many places and increasingly whites are a minority of the people. If whites can't be on top then destroy it. That is what drives this.

Funny, when it comes to minority communities that vote Democrat their policies are the ones that destroyed them, and yet, they never want to talk about that serious conundrum. But I get it, Trump is a great distraction for left and their disastrous policies.

And the bottom line is when you’re not allowing the other side to voice, their concerns about voter fraud, about voter ID laws, when you are unwilling to allow conservatives to view the political process, then you no longer have a functioning democracy. Period-full stop.

Their “concerns” such as they were) were heard in a court and found to be ludicrous and utterly without merit. 60 times in fact.

There were several recounts that all reinforced the initial results.

So in reality, you just want to whine because you lost and to create doubt where none exists. That’s really what this is about.

painkiller

only Americans registered to vote can vote. Do you know that?

painkiller

At Liverpool FC only members of the supporters club can vote, even Americans. P.

Their “concerns” such as they were) were heard in a court and found to be ludicrous and utterly without merit. 60 times in fact. 

That has to do with Trump and has no bearing on easing a very suspicious public. 

So in reality, you just want to whine because you lost

Yeah, Like in 2016 when Trump won did the Dems accept the results? No, they did not nor last when Abrams lost, she’s still whining about the last election and is skeptical about the current election.

I recall the 2016 results. I was not happy. And yes, a few Democrats launched a protest.

And then what happened? Oh yes, now I remember. VP Biden said “the results are the results”, turned that ridiculous bs aside and processed the results and facilitated a smooth transition. Not one insurrectionist in sight.

Thanks for reminding us all what a freak show the Trump “administration” was by comparison.

There was no fraud, just a lot of whining by your side as well as a fair number of bald-faced lies.