File this one under things we hope don’t fall into the wrong hands: Those women-only train cars in Japan aren’t actually enforceable under the law.
All foreign men in Japan can recount their first harrowing experience of obliviously stepping onto a train, only to find that literally every single other passenger was a woman. There’s a moment of confusion and, if you’re lucky, a good Samaritan politely explaining that men don’t belong here, followed by the terrible realization that you’ve broken not only an official rule set forth by the train company but also an unwritten social rule, which is kind of almost worse. But, from here on out, you can rest assured that even though you’re committing a social taboo, you’re not breaking any laws.
Most of the time, women-only cars are effective during peak traffic times only – typically in the early morning hours and sometimes in the evening for the after-work rush – and are designed to prevent groping incidents perpetrated by disgusting individuals that for some reason enjoy non-consensual sexual contact.
Still, for reasons that are difficult for us to fathom, a small subsection of “Men’s Rights” guys in Japan take particular offense to the existence of women-only train cars, arguing that it somehow singles out all men as potential gropers/rapists. As if being a man wasn’t already a pretty cushy gig, these guys for some reason want in on the one last refuge women have available to them to escape the groping hands of men on their morning commutes.
One of the main arguments coming from this group is that women-only cars aren’t legally enforceable because it’s technically a gender-discriminatory practice. While that’s true, it’s one of those things we’re probably all better off quietly accepting – since, you know, men not being able to ride one particular train car at limited times during the day isn’t going to kill anybody.
On the other hand, the women-only cars do have a tendency of concentrating the gross, pervy old men in the adjacent cars, which is just bad news for everybody.
Regardless of your personal opinions about women-only cars, they are a tried-and-true deterrent for sexual assault and have existed in Japan for longer than you might imagine: As early as 1912. So, if you’re a man that’s for some reason feeling outraged about not being able to take train car number five between the times of 8 and 10 a.m., keep in mind the practice has been around for a long time. Oh, and do everybody a favor and bike to work.
Read more stories from RocketNews24. -- Sorry, studs, you’re just too handsome for your own good -- You’re probably not as genki as this old lady -- The “doya-gao” phenomenon and where you’re most likely to see it
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43 Comments
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onagagamo
Great place to get a seat as a Caucasian, smartly-dressed male. Never been told to move on....
nath
Probably, but men are used to having to do extra things for the ... other sex.
nath
I want men-only cars. Same as women should have cars where they can be free of the risk of groping, men should have cars where we can be free of the risk of being falsely accused of groping. It's ridiculous that there are women-only cars, and not also men-only cars. Particularly since there are more male commuters.
Probie
If you haven't already, watch the video on here:
http://wotopi.jp/archives/8759
...and tell me you wouldn't slap her and tell her to come to her senses. It's both the funniest, and most infuriating video I've seen all year.
jerseyboy
If you want to be squeezed in with nothing but a bunch of smelly salarymen, because you fear being accused of groping-- go for it.
Probie
I want cars only for people who have common sense and decency. Everyone riding on it would be able to take up 3 seats it would be so empty.
nath
The only difference I see between the current state of events and the situation above is that with the situation above, guys won't have to worry about being falsely accused of groping.
SamuraiBlue
Usually during the rush hours the female only cars are just as crowded as the normal cars so I don't have any complaints but if all the normal cars are stuffed to the ceiling and the female only cars have enough space like the one in the vid then I would probably ride the female only car as well.
dcog9065
Honestly I think they should get rid of the women only carriages. It's discriminatory and probably contributes to women being treated as far inferior to men in Japan as people probably think that they can't even survive on a train without special carriages. Bigger penalties for sexual assault on trains would curb groping I think but women here need to speak up about it obviously.
GW
Forget women only cars the ultimate solution is to GET OFF the insanely crowded commute trains period, glad I did, never again will I endure the inhumanity of those god awful over packed sardine cans!
No bloody thanks!
onagagamo
Thanks for the video, Probie. Hilarious!
Wakarimasen
Take a taxi
kolohe
Several Japanese female friends who have gotten on those Women-only cars said that the women in there are pushy and bitchy as they want their own space and fight for it, that they have no manners. One friend said that she saw the women push out a guy as he was trying get in the car before the doors closed. So these friends prefer riding in the mixed cars of the train.
turbotsat
Some pervs'd go for that. And it's free!
Frungy
I'm sorry, but this is the worst possible argument. Someone yelling the n-word in your face won't kill you either... but it does contribute to a society where discrimination is tolerated. A major company like JR promoting gender discrimination is offensive, and the implication IS:
I take offense at being stereotypes as a groper/rapist. I take offense at the idea that I cannot be trusted to stand in a train for 15 minutes and keep my hands to myself.
Finally though, and most importantly, it does nothing to solve the problem. It just sweeps it under the rug. It teaches women and girls that in order to be "safe" the only option is to segregate yourself away from men.
The women-only train is the Japanese equivalent of a burqa. It doesn't solve a darned thing and it actually makes the situation worse, not better.
Jimizo
'Finally though, and most importantly, it does nothing to solve the problem. It just sweeps it under the rug. It teaches women and girls that in order to be "safe" the only option is to segregate yourself away from men.'
A fair point but you don't say what women should do in order to be safe. What are the options?
lucabrasi
It's an old problem.
British women in Victorian times were advised to put pins in their mouths when trains entered tunnels, in case any "gentleman" sitting opposite tried to steal a kiss....
Maybe there's a modern version of this tactic.
Frungy
The train isn't the only place that sexual harassment happens. It could happen in the workplace, in school, in the street.
The options for a woman should be exactly the same as the options for a man. You shout for the police, and bystanders step in an restrain the culprit until they arrive.
In fact this is what has happened in several cases recently (apart from shirtless guy who managed to wriggle free and escape), and it works well.
The underlying problem is that all too often women and girls are so afraid that they don't scream, and that lets the culprit get away with it. Having a separate carriage for women just encourages this fear of men, it makes out that all of us are gropers and that she will get no assistance.
Ban the women only carriages and put up signs telling women to shout and identify the culprit, and telling other commuters that it is okay to restrain the culprit until the police arrive. One sight of those signs and the knowledge that people can and will act should deter the gropers both in the trains and the workplace and the street, etc.
Now that's a SOLUTION. Women-only cars? Just discrimination and sweeping the problem under the carpet.
StormR
They discriminate on the basis of sex which I thought was against the UN and its PC policies.
I think the correct way to deal with chikan on trains would be to increase surveillance and penalties for proven cases, I remember when these woman only carriages were introduced, there were quite a few with very few people on them.
Is there such a thing as equality in this world?
Not so long as we have this type of exclusion going on, the PC BS has become so un PC its almost done a complete circle.
Bluebris
Can't say I found that video very funny. Seems to be a panic attack, which I don't find funny. Morons trolling on trains and then videoing and posting a woman close to a breakdown isn't funny to me.
Probie
If she is that afraid of men, she must be constantly panicking. She needs professional help.
The "Women Only" cars even say on them that they ask for your help. It isn't a law. You can ignore them if you want. The idiot guys who work for the train company who forced the guy off should be fired.
Women complain about "men only" golf clubs etc, but crap like this are fine.
Although, we all know you can only be sexist if you're a man...
nath
Good on that guy for sticking to his guns. They can ask for men to not ride those cars, but it's only manners, not law, and it's not right to try to legislate manners.
That chick has some serious mental issues.
kyushubill
The Higashiyama Subway Line in Nagoya (the busiest by the way) has women only cars from 6AM to 9AM and 5PM to 9PM, and most women still ride in the other cars. I really do not understand this. They come in with their strollers in the middle of the aisles, slapping on makeup, and squirting perfume and hairspray all over. Yet the women only cars are at best 3/4 full.
I think they either need to get full or they need to end them. The rest of the cars are sardine cans during the rush.
philly1
With all the acceptable perversions in deeply misogynistic Japan, this is merely one more that is tolerated. Hence people so inclined get away with it. Shouting for the police is not an option as it disrupts social harmony. Expecting bystanders to restrain a perpetrator goes against the deep cultural norm not to involve yourself in concerns that are not yours as it only creates obligation where none exists. As long as those remain the tacit cultural norms those are not viable solutions; therefore, the problem of groping persists.
Even though it casts all men as deviant and is discriminatory, to offer a safe place for women at periods of extreme crowding is probably the best that this particular society can do.
First, by creating separate cars, JR acknowledges that there is a serious problem. (Bravo)
Second, the company offers some protection to women and potential lawsuits against itself. (Smart)
Third, even though it's not a perfect solution, it's the best option to preserve social harmony. (Good enough)
Last, it's not all that different from offering separate washrooms which is acceptable everywhere. (Better than nothing)
nath
To be equivalent to the "separate washrooms" example there would have to be at least one "men only" car for every female one. Also, since when was it acceptable to sue the train company for gropers?
philly1
You probably could sue a company for not providing a safe environment for passengers. Doesn't mean you'd win, but you might get a settlement and the company would get undesirable PR.
And you are right, scipantheist, it's not equivalent to separate washrooms--I said not that different from. I quite agree that it's an imperfect attempt to solve a problem; however, that's perhaps the best that exists before changing an entire culture. (Which we could probably agree would require another few centuries.)
turbotsat
Ladies need more protection. Japan even has porn genre for sex attacks on trains. Lady on train must feel like surrounded by pervs even if not.
Should be more modern than India, why not have measures like ladies-only cars as countermeasures? If adding men-only car for equality, who would use it? Guys'd be thinking "Everybody'll think I'm gay or a herbivore. Suppose my neighbor sees me hopping on! I'd never hear the end of it!" We modern men know we should hop on just to prove we're not discriminantists. But in-the-closet guys still won't get on. Translates to mostly empty men-only cars. Still, might try it and see. Signs are cheap.
Better would be for train operators to add more trains (adding more cars difficult if it means changing platform size), and to meter ingress onto trains at peak hours. Instead of jamming people in like sardines.
Like highway metering in US and maybe elsewhere. Entrance ramps with stop/go lights that only let one or two cars through the ramp every several seconds. Don't think I've ever seen a car jump the gun at those ramps, even though the risk of a ticket is small.
sfjp330
turbotsat Aug. 30, 2014 - 04:04AM JST Better would be for train operators to add more trains (adding more cars difficult if it means changing platform size), and to meter ingress onto trains at peak hours. Instead of jamming people in like sardines.
They are overloading the trains. No-one would ever dispute that even in Japan. I guess that they are just being pragmatic about it. They have a huge population, all trying to get to work at the same time in the morning and the train lines are already running at full capacity. They are building new lines, and spend huge amounts on the train lines to get the trains running a little quicker in the hope of squeezing another train into the schedule.
Sure they are missing the point and should be working harder to spread the population around the country, implement split hours working, encourage telecommuting, etc. Ignore that for the moment though and marvel at their impressive display of logistics skill.
turbotsat
Maybe mark cars as packed (sign with an open can of sardines!) and non-packed, and metered ingress to the non-packed cars only. Take you longer to get on the non-packed train, maybe late to work, but not in all-over close contact with your compatriots.
Of course if you LIKE that ...
Sensato
I want men-only cars.
@Strangerland
There is actually a growing movement in Japan by men calling for men-only cars.
Shareholder activists of Seibu Holdings (Seibu Railway) got a motion for men-only cars put on the agenda to be voted on at the company's shareholders' meeting (the resolution was ultimately voted down). According to the shareholders' meeting notice, the proposal was inspired by an incident where a man was accused of groping, but video footage later showed that he had been falsely accused.
Proposal 8 on page 65 of the meeting notice, if you are interested: http://v4.eir-parts.net/v4Contents/View.aspx?template=announcement&sid=17831&code=9024
turbotsat
@Sensato, I hope they prosecuted the accuser.
nath
How does it cast all men as deviant?
I hope they keep pressing for it. I'd ride the men only trains.
nath
No, relief from the potential of being falsely accused of groping women. Which is a lot more life-destroying than being groped.
philly1
Strangerland, it casts all men as deviant because it suggests that MEN as a whole are gropers. Any man becomes suspect regardless of whether he is or is not a groper. The hysterical response in the video linked by Probie is a prime example: EEEK--a man!! An evil pervert. I am not safe. Never mind that he may be a very nice man who happened to enter the women only car for all sorts of reasons.
nath
I don't really see that connection. It comes across as rhetoric to me. I want men only cars, so as to not have to worry about false accusations of groping, but I don't think that all women are potential wolf-criers. I just don't want to be near those few women who are.
philly1
Well, that may be splitting hairs. However, by staying away from ALL women on trains because some are wolf-criers means that ANY woman may be a wolf-crier (or deviant). Amounts to the same thing. But I understand the request for a men-only car. I have no problem with that.
I wonder why other solutions to ease crowding on trains haven't been considered. What if people rotated the time they started and ended work so that not everyone has to travel at the same time? That would screw the morning meeting over--but that's not necessarily a bad thing. One less time-waster.
nath
Well, that's a lot different than casting all women as wolf-criers (or all men as deviants as the original argument goes). And even with the change, I still disagree, as it is still rhetoric. The gender-only trains are simply a recognition that there are women who will cry-wolf (or men who will be deviants) out there, and rather than trying to sort out who is who, the whole question is negated by removing the other gender from the equation altogether.
I recognize that very, very few women will falsely accuse a man of groping. Therefore I would doubt that the huge majority of the women on the train were potential wolf criers. This is different from your assumption that I would assume all women are potential wolf-criers. Rather, I just prefer to not have to consider whether they may be wolf-criers or not, and by sitting on a male-only train, I could do that.
philly1
Strangerland, since you have repeated this twice, to me it indicates that you misunderstand the definition of rhetoric which is "the art of effective or persuasive speaking or writing" [Oxford Canadian Dictionary]. That's like saying "I still disagree, as it is still argument." Of course it is.
Of course you can disagree, but you are not dismissing the idea because it is an argument. You dismiss it because it is an argument that you disagree with. You simply have not been persuaded. That's all. You don't understand "ANY woman" as also meaning "ALL women." But I do. So we agree to disagree.
Rhetorical strategies are merely the means to advance an argument, just as strategic maneuvers in sport advance the ball. And sometimes someone wins an argument. Sometimes not.
Some people consider rhetoric insincere, artificial and exaggerated; however, it is not. People can be insincere, artificial and exaggerated. Such people can use rhetorical strategies in ways that are consistent with their character; however, rhetoric in and of itself is not any of those things. Rhetoric is an art--one that orators and writers use to great effect. I would argue passionately that it shouldn't be summarily or improperly dismissed.
turbotsat
Maybe for Y1000 tip could ask a lady to accompany you on the Women-only car, thus avoiding the packed cars.
Because just because a woman is part of a couple doesn't mean she should have to be subjected to the packed cars.
nath
It's really sad that most foreigners will NOT do something simply because it's the right thing to do, they have to have the threat of law to actually not do something. No it's not illegal to sit in the women only cars, yes it's bullheaded and inconsiderate to do so.
The only bad thing I see about it is that these are only enacted during rush hour where the trains are packed and we really NEED those cars for everyone.
LenBeige
Honestly,
I'm so confused. What do women want? Security, freedom, both? That's all totally okay and I'm fine with it. But again hypocrisy is a beautiful thing because it often goes unnoticed for how women behave on trains, buses etc.
In a nation where groping is actually a messed up norm (Japan, India), it's actually scary for a girl to go on a bus/train. And the worst part is living in fear for the next little while of the commute. And let's be honest. Porn does somewhat glamorize this horrific behaviour and it's scary how it extends into the real world.
If women want safety from monsters that don't carry shame and don't think about the consequences of their actions then so be it. Have a women-only car. As a man who doesn't live in Japan, I want a MAN-ONLY car too. I would love to be in a car without women.
I WOULD LOVE TO COMMUTE PEACEFULLY WITHOUT HAVING THE ANXIETY OF HAVING A WOMAN ONBOARD.
I've commuted several times and often times I'm looked at by people. And most times met with a sour look of disgust as if I had something on my face. I get it. It's cool. But what I don't understand is the NEED TO PRESENT UNCOMFORTABILITY. Like, I don't even want to interact with people. And sometimes I catch people looking my way and then quickly turn their head. When girls often do this, I want to gut myself publicly because I hate myself as well. Like girl, I get it. You're pretty. But just cause you're pretty don't mean all guys want to talk to you or have sex with you. The amount of mental trauma afflicted to someone who's not even trying to interact with anyone is amazing. It's messed up.
I've noticed patterns in the way people behave, and oddly enough a talking point between girls and women are about guys following them or having a creepy experience with one. For some reason, it's fking weird, some NOT ALL but some girls see it as power within their circle of friends. It's fking weird. This girl I knew boasted to her friend about how this guy was following her. Not that she wanted him to follow her but that it happened naturally. And I believe the whole point of her statement was to illustrate how captivating she is enough for a guy to follow her. She wasn't furious or showing signs of stress. This was like having a conversation like any other day. And I THINK between some women, this is a sign of power. Not something fought for but understood. Girls growing up in elementary to high school would most often notice changes in how their guy friends behave around them as they start to mature. When girls see how boys act around them, things can happen. Good or bad. Some girls don't care. Some girls see it as an opportunity. And the worst part, is that it's no one's fault but nature. Guys since the early 2000s have always been expected to 'make the first move' when it comes to finding someone. Unfortunately, that first move doesn't apply anymore considering some girls don't want to talk to random guys.
Unfortunately, this culture is a norm. The way guys behave on the internet and in real life has been a mockery for the past few years. Enough for girls these days to feel creeped out by any guy at this point. And I get it. There are monsters out there that need to rot. But to put a whole GENDER under scrutiny for rotten bunch that don't represent a whole is fked up. We don't say all Muslims are terrorists. We don't say all Whites are racists. We don't say all Japanese are tentacle-loving weirdos. So why do this to good people trying to live out their lives. I'm a good example of a guy that doesn't want to talk to anyone regardless of gender but for some reason get creepshamed a lot for DOING ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
Again, have the women-only car. But it only serves to further divide people in terms of gender. The best part of all this is that there are EASIER AND MORE PRACTICAL solutions out there. I'll point out two.
Where is the conducter? Or some form of security? Trains in Japan or any nation where groping is common should have some form of a peace officer on board to prevent and detain individuals. Individuals caught groping, stealing, anything should be subject to punishment. Simple right?
How about instead of ignoring this twat when he touches random people, call him out for his behaviour? Shun the individual or toss a tomato at him or something. But only if it's proven that he's actually groping an individual. Girls shouldn't have to be scared of guys or men, they should be scared of horrible monsters that exist in this world.
Here's a third one. How about both? Have a security/peace officer that works together with the people to prevent this behaviour from continuing. Start enforcing stricter penalty and jail time for this behaviour. It will deter people from commiting this crime.I really don't care anymore. But I'm done with the whole finger pointing at guys and shunning them. Again I get. There are a lot of monsters around. But now innocent people are getting mentally traumatized for being in the line of fire. If I have to kill myself to prove a point. Then maybe I'll concoct a plan to hang myself off the CN Tower with a long sheet a paper detailing why I did it. Along with a pre-recorded video of course. But I don't intend on committing such an act. Yet.
Anyways, have your stupid women-only car. But what's fair is fair and men should have a men-only car. And women shouldn't be able to complain about it.
Oh and FYI not all guys smell like a fish market. Some girl in the comments assuming all guys smell like sweat and what not. We groom ourselves as much women do as well.