Dating in Tokyo is pretty easy—if you’re not looking for a single guy

We hit it off fabulously — chemistry on all levels. I was looking forward to more, until, on our second date, I also learned about his wife.

Honey, you should thank you lucky stars you learned about her so early in the game.

You sound like you like the attention. Anyway, I don't think women have any "harder" of a time cheating on or with married men.

You sound like you like the attention.

Men usually come to women, not the other way around (in my experience anyway). And many a married man has seen the prospect of intimacy outside of marriage as enabling him to remain in one lacking it. Though minor children are certainly a consideration, I think the financial implications of divorce cause many to remain in a less than happy home while seeking a little morale boosting on the side. This seems to be what Ms. Weinberg discovered in her cross-cultural effort to find a soul mate. Good luck with that....

From a strictly technical standpoint you don't filter your prospects well enough. A simple credit check should show the marriage. I don't understand why you wait for your date -And then ask if they are married? It almost seems like you enjoy basking in dissapointment. And why aren't your friends helping in your search -Put them to work.

Now your timing couldn't be more worse. It's a recession and you seek marriage.

Yes, you made my nutter list. But I do wish you well. I don't understand Internet daters.

Gonpachi?! He can't have been that rich.

I don't get it - are we supposed to feel sympathy for her?

I don't get it - are we supposed to feel sympathy for her?

I think her mistake was in assuming that, now she's decided she's ready to settle down, finding a suitable mate is just an internet search away. Wonders never cease, it yielded a lot candidates who omitted information that would have torpedoed their chances.

Though she's correct that a low divorce rate doesn't mean everyone's living "happily ever after," her experience would have been the same in any other country.

dating, and looking for a husband, are not necessarily the same activity are they?

dating, and looking for a husband, are not necessarily the same activity are they?

No, they are not. But few women are interested in dating another woman's husband and that's why this information is not usually volunteered.

What if one of the guys said "I am a full time care provider for a sick disabled wife...", and "intimacy was no longer a logical component of the marriage!" A dose of reality... love/lust hormones will be active for four years... on average... perhaps she should be looking for a lifelong friend to marry, instead of being so cynical and judgmental of other people who might be having a harder life and making tougher choices.

A foreign woman in Tokyo, actively seeking out men to date? She may as well put a neon sign over her head - 'Out for a Good Time, No Strings'. You have to be much, much more subtle than advertising on the Internet if you want a genuine relationship. The genuine guys are busy enjoying being single, not surfing the net looking for ladies who (apparently) can't get dates otherwise.

Looks like Anne has made the mistake of assuming that what goes at home also goes here. It don't.

This man was older, established (i.e., has cash)

Ah, I see what she wants. At least from this parenthetical remark. If not, why didn't she had - 'owns his own company', or 'is in upper management'

What if one of the guys said "I am a full time care provider for a sick disabled wife...", and "intimacy was no longer a logical component of the marriage!" A dose of reality... love/lust hormones will be active for four years... on average... perhaps she should be looking for a lifelong friend to marry, instead of being so cynical and judgmental of other people who might be having a harder life and making tougher choices.

The issue is one of honesty. A man in that situation should be upfront about it and maybe the woman, after being fully apprised of his situation, will decide whatever he has to offer her is better than the whole deal with someone else. But in the absence of full disclosure, you can't make it about "well I've had a harder life than you...."

In my experience, a man who doesn't want to lose a woman will say whatever he has to in order to keep her. This makes it into a matter of "trust but verify." And by that point, the trust is already badly eroded.

A foreign woman in Tokyo, actively seeking out men to date? She may as well put a neon sign over her head - 'Out for a Good Time, No Strings'. You have to be much, much more subtle than advertising on the Internet if you want a genuine relationship. The genuine guys are busy enjoying being single, not surfing the net looking for ladies who (apparently) can't get dates otherwise.

The internet is great for a lot of things, buying cheap plane tickets and ascertaining the value of real estate, for example. It's not the best place to look for love, however.

Ms. Weinberg, if you're looking to score a man on the internet, how about dating a JT poster?

I'll let you order anything on the menu at Saizeriya!

Anyone else have the old The Guess Who song "American Woman" swirling around in their head after reading this?

American woman, stay away from me

American woman, mama let me be

Don't come hare hanging around my door

I don't want to see your face no more

I got more important things to do

Than spend my time growin' old with you

Now woman, I said stay away

American woman, listen what I say

She needs to learn the personal column coded language… like SxF looking for SxM

It was much harder to say goodbye to this one. We shared so many interests, and there was definitely chemistry. Fortunately, he was supportive of my position and we pledged to remain friends. He still gets to go home to his wife, and I get to peruse my list. I may revisit it again soon.

In other words, he's holding out until Anne gets desperate. Hopefully when that happens she won't be too far down on his roster. And everything Anne says about guys applies to Japanese housewives.

I’m petite, professional, outgoing and American. It shouldn’t be that hard, right?

Surprised she asked the question after admitting to being American. Not that all American women are problems, but their reputation is not exactly on par with Japanese women, now is it? But if you are looking to be a giver of a green card, that is another matter...

And professional? Sorry, but that is not exactly a selling point for a woman looking marriage. Its more like an option, that some men will find appealing and some most certainly will not, but most are not going to jump at a woman as a marriage partner because she is professional.

She needs to learn the personal column coded language… like SxF looking for SxM

I noticed in my local newspaper the majority of personals are in fact someone looking for a no strings hook-up. That you may be able to find on the internet with a localized search. A "soul mate" is much more unlikely. In fact I've always found people on such a hunt a bit strange; my most memorable boyfriends were the ones I met in the least likely places or, had I received a bio in advance, I would have said, "No way, Jose."

I’m petite, professional, outgoing and American. It shouldn’t be that hard, right?

FAIL, FAIL, FAIL and FAIL... any questions?

So are the Metropolis classifieds a hotbed of infidelity, then?

A friend wants to know.

Try again anyway, Anne. This time SxF and ASK before going out with the guy. And, don't let that stupid "American Woman" song ruin your life, either. Good luck!

She`s only been here for a couple months & seems determined to make a fool of herself, not condoning the gents she is meeting but DOH DOH DOH!!

The word daft comes to mind, hope all american ladies arent like her, not that I care much as I am married, I will leave this one to the other guys on JT, good luck you`d need it with this one by looks of it.

Anne, you shud stick to studying govt affairs instead of personal ones LOL.

Japanese women are not the only loonies.

i think the best way to meet potential boyfriends/girlfriends is through friends. your friends tend to be on the same level as you with values, interests, etc ... that's why you are friends with them. their friends also are on this level so the chance of you hitting it off with them are much better. people on dating sites maybe too desperate or hiding things, etc. best to meet on the basis of a friendship and go from their. good luck Anne.

I always tell the woman that I am married, so I do not waste my time. Some do not like it, but most do not mind at all. Life is too short to lie about not being married.

I really hate these newbie in Japan articles.

"I’m petite, professional, outgoing and American. It shouldn’t be that hard, right?"

Excuse me, but where is the rule that says being outgoing or American is attractive? That sounds like code for obnoxiously loud and bossy, possibly a drama queen, requiring unreasonable amounts of attention ("Look at me! Me! Me!") and the real possibility that people can smell her perfume from 3 cars away on the yamanote.

When your wish list involves a plethora of must haves, it is clear why there are so many singles looking.

Ironically, this woman would have better luck in China where her direct approach might mesh with that of some Chinese men. I can recall being asked by a male classmate whom I barely knew if I was interested in being his girlfriend. He was a true gentleman, giving me 48 hours to think it over. And I assured him I didn't need the time to make such a weighty decision, he could "take me now!"

While dating colleagues poses all sorts of challenges and management usually frowns on it, surely she can meet men through work and get to know them over a period of time. I don't really decide a guy is attractive until after I get to know him.

She is obviously very,very new to Japan....

cracaphat. indeed.

Marriage here is often very practical. Suitable guy meets suitable girl to form suitable family. Lost marital romance is something we hear about pretty much every day in the media. So people go looking for it outside their relationships. One only needs to look at the whole hostess, kabakura world for evidence of men doing so. And the reputation of willing housewives is more real and earned than I think anyone wants to admit.

Anne those great internet qualities for the US don't fly far here. You are up against kawaii, sekushi and otonashii here. And if you are not very young and cute, well... that hurts your chances too. This is probably the last place you want to be to find Mr.Right. Trust me, it took a long time and scary enough dating experiences to consider the priesthood, to finally stumble upon the potential Ms.Right a while after I gave up looking and abandoned hope of finding a sane, single and reasonably capable partner. Had I been looking seriously, I would never have found her.

My advice. Stop looking. Live your life here and see what happens. Good things come to those who wait Mom always said.

Such naive and vapid tosh. What was she expecting, creepy married guys looking for sex to not be on the internet?

One of my email dates remarked that it was much easier for foreign men to date in Japan than foreign women. I am inclined to believe this is true.

That depends entirely on the woman. A foreign woman who isn't attracted to Japanese men is in trouble. A foreign woman that is very picky, is in trouble. A woman new to Japan and not understanding Japanese mens customs, and ways of acting, is in trouble.

But a woman who is attracted to Japanese men, is open-minded, and patient to deal with cultural differences, has as much chance to get a man as a man get a woman.

This is an old stereotype now. There are a lot more foreign woman going out with or married to Japanese guys now.

Why would this woman meet met and then ask if they are married...duh. Many, many times more foreign women are in fact marrying Japanese men everyday...but they are not Caucasians from N. America, Oz or Europe, they are Chinese and Korean women and thus not as readily apparent to most of the gaijin here.

kamelon

true but most of those women are from SE Asia & China married to farmers in the countryside

Anne, enjoy yr nama gajin phase its usually the most exciting, frustrating, crazy part of yr life in Jpn but dont be fool enough to write about it!

One big difference between dating in Japan and in my home country is the fact that here in Japan, men always have high expectations on the outcome of their dates. Expectations are not bad, but it should be reasonable.

As far as "married" men are concerned, I think that most of them were not really prepared to get married but were only compelled to do so because of social pressure. Lots of my Japanese friends are like that, and the single ones already feel the pressure of finding the "woman who could serve him for life". In addition, a gay friend of mine used to share with me his experience(s) with married men in gay saunas in Shinjuku, so for sure, single women from the US are not the only potential "partners" of these men.

If you really want to meet guys as potential partners, learn from the old and traditional "American" way - friends' or relatives' introduction... church... reunions and things like that. They may not be 100% ideal, but they've proven to be more effective than internet.

Ironically, this woman would have better luck in China where her direct approach might mesh with that of some Chinese men.

Particularly the visa-seekers.

How about doing some research first? Not so proffesional eh?

Betzee your firsts posts were right on target. Yet they made me laugh. Its funny how being so deadpan honest can be funny. Thanks.

But...

The issue is one of honesty. A man in that situation should be upfront about it and maybe the woman, after being fully apprised of his situation, will decide whatever he has to offer her is better than the whole deal with someone else. But in the absence of full disclosure, you can't make it about "well I've had a harder life than you...."

I agree that having a tough life is no excuse for dishonesty. But the trouble I have found, and you have pointed this out yourself, is that most women will just shut it down if you lay it all on the line from the get go. You cannot go about it that way and have any hope of success. She has to take a liking to you first, then you take the risk of being honest. Women generally DO NOT make logical choices and balance the pros and cons. What happens is she gets a fancy and decides what she will tolerate. My proof is in Anne. She was pretty hard on that second date for being married. But notice that she does not tell us how or when the current dude sprang that same thing on her. She just mentions it in passing. Given her attitude through the first 2/3 of the article, my guess is the current dude did the exact same thing or she would have passed him up too. She just liked him more.

That means the second date was punished because she did not like him as much. Women tolerate plenty from us guys. But this is the inconsistent bullcrap we men face with women. By what divination are we supposed to know if you like us enough to tolerate our being married? We cannot change you, so we react to this. And the only way to react is with lies and covering up.

That was a particularly mind-bending lesson for me. I learned it the hard way. Lying is very abhorrent to me. But not having a fresh partner every once in a while is Hell. I do not expect most women to understand that, but its true. And I will not change, except to become an unenthusiastic miserable lump of flesh. I would be the walking dead.

Fortunately, he was supportive of my position and we pledged to remain friends. He still gets to go home to his wife, and I get to peruse my list.

I am taking this as code speak for dating.

As much as women do not seem to appreciate the advice, I think it is far better for a woman to be dating someone, even married, so that they learn about reality. I needed it too, and it took a lot of dating to replace all the stupid assumptions I used to have with reality.

I am glad to see that Anne is playing the game, because if you don't play, you probably won't win. Yeah, some women get lucky for doing nothing. If that happens to you, great, but don't bet on it.

But rather than make a search for a husband as your first step, best to just make some friends first. Do something to increase your social circles, because something is bound to happen in the context of that.

The divorce rate in Japan may be low, but I imagine that’s because the affair rate is so high. Hey, no judgment from me one way or the other.

Anne saves herself at the end. This is an intelligent comment. Good luck Anne. (And don't go out of your way because it will be misinterpreted, but if you bump into that second date who footed that dinner bill again, apologize to him.)

No offense to Anne Weinberg, but life isn't sex and the city. You're obviously picking up the wrong guys and it's certainly not the guys fault.

If she's into Russian and Bulgarian women, she can meet them for free. Or so the add says. Maybe they'll have some extra guys on hand.

A foreign woman in Tokyo, actively seeking out men to date? She may as well put a neon sign over her head - 'Out for a Good Time, No Strings'. You have to be much, much more subtle than advertising on the Internet if you want a genuine relationship.

Okay, Cleo, show us how it's done. What would your approach be?

On this subject....does anyone actually have some good advice on how to meet good men in Tokyo??!

Mum is coming over for two months at the end of March. She is beautiful, blonde, blue-eyed, petite, oh, and 61. She has been a widow since 2001 and is wanting to "get out there" again. She LOVES Japan, and would love to meet a Japanese or foreign guy here, but neither of us know where to go to look! Last years internet dating site I signed her up for yielded one disastrous blind date (20 minutes late, crumpled suit, trip to Sizzler for lunch (at 3.30pm!), looking for a new wife to help care for his 97 yr old Mother he still lives with)

If anyone can offer any advice - or better still a date(!) I would be most gratfeul!

Nessie / kirakira25: Don't date online, you'll only meet nerds, dorks and married people. Being a foreign woman in Japan, pretty much all Japanese men will be intimidated by you so you have to talk to them. Your best bets are the gym, bars, work parties, friends of friends parties... or some places in Roppongi, although most are trashy.

kirakira and all other hopeless and hopeful out there:

There's a website called meetup that has hundreds of activities that people of all ages can participate. there's about 15-30 different meetups every week, out of a total of 200. If you really wanna fill up your social calendar, go to a few of these.

if you dont already have business cards, make some personal ones with some nice colors or designs. if you see someone you like, dont be afraid to hit them up for their card or phone number. the rest is up to the 2 of u hahaa.

Nessie -

Sorry, can't help. I never had to go looking for dates in my life.

:-)

Touche, Cleo.

Nessie / kirakira25: Don't date online, you'll only meet nerds, dorks and married people.

Thanks, GoGo. I was asking on behalf of Anne, not on behalf of myself.

Being a foreign woman in Japan, pretty much all Japanese men will be intimidated by you so you have to talk to them. Your best bets are the gym, bars, work parties, friends of friends parties... or some places in Roppongi, although most are trashy.

I should probably add that I'm a guy. And that I like women. And they are intimidated by me. And Roppongi is a bit far from Sapporo.

Intimidation. A few thoughts:

Over the years I have met so many Japanese guys who are not intimidated by foreign women(I know because they date foreign women), I wonder if these women who complain about this intimidation thing aren't just falling for a stereotype. In this case, a change of attitude is definitely in order. Anne, above, apparently has no problem finding Japanese guys who aren't intimidated by foreign women. Could it be that the stereotype isn't true? OMG!

There are Japanese guys who are intimidated by foreign women, but as far as I can tell they are intimidated by ALL women, regardless of their background. There's a distinct possibility that they may not even like women...in that way.

If these single women who contend that they intimidate Japanese guys indeed ARE single, then maybe they aren't just intimidating to Japanese guys, but to all men, including those in their own country.

There are guys who are intimidated by women, and they exist in every country. Here's a solution, don't blame them for your troubles.

If you are having trouble finding dates, maybe it's not the fault of the people who won't date you...or am I just repeating myself?

If indeed personality is the problem, just because Western guys put up with you, it doesn't mean that Japanese guys have to.

Just remember, it's always good to keep a sense of humor.

In the midst of a growing depression we get this piece about dating. Ira Gershwin was right:

Let it rain and thunder!

Let a million firms go under!

I am not concerned with

Stocks and bonds that I've been burned with.

I love you and you love me,

And that's how it will always be.

And nothing else can ever mean a thing.

Who cares what the public chatters?

Love's the only thing that matters.

So here is are my thoughts on the ongoing depressed dating market for gaijin women.

The fact is there a great disparity somewhere. On one hand you have all of these desperate, love-starved foreign women. On the other hand you have all these Japanese knife-wielding maniacs out slashing people because they can't get dates.

It seems to me that if these knife-wielding maniac would post their messages about their plans to kill people in English there would be tons of foreign women who would pounce on them with heart and soul. If we could get the Japanese knife-wielding maniac / lonely gaijin woman network going we'd be killing two birds with one stone, if you'll pardon the expression. The best thing is that the knife-wielding maniac would be subdued because he would have the opportunity to stick something other than a knife into a warm body. The satisfied gaijin woman would spare us from heart-breaking articles like this one.

Of course, the foreign women would have to be trained in how to interact with knife-wielding maniacs. For example.

Knife-wielding maniac: The pound killed my puppy when I was a kid. Now I feel like cutting up public servants.

Gaijin woman: I understand how you feel honey. Do you think I could replace you puppy?

Knife wielding maniac: Wow, that would be great! Can you fetch?

Gaijin woman: Sure honey. And I love having my belly rubbed.

See, the Gaijin woman has been carefully trained not to say something like, "I can play dead too." Not the thing you want to say to a knife-wielding maniac.

Because she knows what to say and what not to say the lonely gaijin woman and the knife-wielding maniac are headed for ever-lasting bliss, even if the Rockies may crumble and Gibraltar may tumble.

So who's putting my hand down of the Nobel Prize short list?

I'm sooo glad you like my humor, likeitis. I used to enjoy writing comedy!

But the trouble I have found, and you have pointed this out yourself, is that most women will just shut it down if you lay it all on the line from the get go. You cannot go about it that way and have any hope of success. She has to take a liking to you first, then you take the risk of being honest. Women generally DO NOT make logical choices and balance the pros and cons. What happens is she gets a fancy and decides what she will tolerate.

Once you've established a connection, yes, you can risk rejection by laying it on the line and circumstances will certainly force your hand. At that point, however, my advice is to listen very carefully to what you are being told. It's usually a speel about duty, which is a good public rationale. The private reasons may be different, however. The financial ramifications of divorce almost guarantees a lower standing of living for everyone. Or there's the fear the grass may not be all that greener on the other side of the fence. So why go through all the hassle? At this point, it's time to say adios. Initial misrepresentations have turned into secondary deceptions to justify the first. Do you really want to stick around for the next iteration?

That isn't to say I don't have my own fears too. Remaining single guarantees I'll never turn into a nag. But there's plenty of men who aren't looking for someone to organize their lives. I'm afraid Anne may have discovered that's what these Japanese men already had and they wanted the excitement of an affair to complement it.

I had a married women pull this on me once. Surprise! Three months into a relatioship that started with her putting her number in my pocket at a disco.

I didn't mind because I was on the rebound and not looking for anything too profound at the time -- which ended up being a problem because she was looking to bail on hubby.

Remaining single guarantees I'll never turn into a nag.

Nonsense. There's always a way if one applies onself.

If you are a Western woman alone in a foreign land, you're already somewhat of an anomaly. I can remember getting into a taxi in Mexico City and the driver immediately asked me something in Spanish. I replied "No comprendo" and then he preceded to wrap one finger around the ring finger and I knew what he was asking: "Are you married?" I don't think his intention was to ascertain my availability for a date but simply to understand a different culture. What's a woman like you doing alone here....

Some men who approach you have stereotypes about loose Western women and see you as an opportunity for a no strings hook-up. But others may be more individualistic than their own culture allows and see friendship with a Western woman who won't judge them harshly in that regard as very desirable. Those are the guys worth getting to know....

Ms Weinberg: Honestly, you came to the wrong country to look for men (even if you're younger). Yes, it's easier for gaijin men to date J women because the J women are so desperately wanting to get out of their cultures. They'll do anything to 'catch' the men, including putting aside their own moral obligations.

I feel sorry for you, but may I suggest that instead of the internet links, you should try and join some gaijin/japanese friendship club of some sort. Get your friend to introduce you his friends or get invited to parties etc.

It's absolutely not impossible for you to find a man but it's a very difficult process, even if you are pretty, charming, sexy and intelligent. Men in this country don't look for those qualities.

In the last line please read "name" for "hand." All the last line....

Nonsense. There's always a way if one applies onself.

You're right. I had someone pull this on me in a professional setting. "Call me at home to remind me." Know what? I don't make calls like that.

I had a married women pull this on me once. Surprise! Three months into a relatioship that started with her putting her number in my pocket at a disco.

I'm sure men have many interesting stories to tell too!

It's getting warmer and the nutters are finally coming out of hibernation. Yes, spring is coming and love is in the air.

The whole premise of this article is faulted: You are on a date to get married. No (respectable) single guy will ever fall for that. Change your gameplan and enjoy life somewhat. Socially you seem very weak and that by itself throws most guys off.

If I was out on a date that last thing I would want is a checklist of questions to talk about. Maybe 1-2 personal questions tops. Do something you can both enjoy and you will find the time spent more enjoyable.

I actually think the Japanese way of cheating and not getting divorced is more practical. Your kids have a home and your wife spends your money (she's probably stepping out too) If you can't be faithful at least don't destroy the family unit which at its core is a busines venture. I love my wife and I don't cheat nor do I have the desire to but to each their own.

jeancolmar: thanks for the laugh, you may be on to something here. I smell a business venture.

Betzee, I agree with the idea of honesty and being upfront. 110%! I mealy interpreted her to be condemning every single guy that would consider seeking companionship outside of a marriage. The words “harder life” does not do some situations justice. I recently found out my disabled spouse was parading online as the opposite gender, and trying to hook up with a girl from Singapore. .. while pretending to be her dead brother! No, I do believe in honesty… even when my life resembles a horror movie! My opinion has always been if someone is not able to accept my situation, then they are nothing more than a baby that has seen no real drama and I do not require their company. Still, I wish Anna the very best at finding her “Disney” relationship. I also think she should stick to studying government relationships, and not human relationships. One is predictable and has rules for dealing with a situation; the other does not have any such device!

A lot of people think going overseas is a chance to start fresh. In fact in most cases you end up replicating the types of relationships you had with your own compatriots. If high drama is your thing; well there's plenty of that to go around everywhere.

I remember some relief when a friend left for Japan to do research. My shoulder was kinda cried out. But pretty quickly the calls started comin'. She had met a foreign national man who was married to a wealthy Japanese lesbian with whom he shared a child. The marriage was a sham, there was no pretense of fidelity. She wanted him to leave his wife and live with her. But for him it would have meant giving up a materially comfortable existence and starting a career in a country he'd never been in, where the licensing requirements for his profession were different. And of course it would have meant giving up his son. Tough choices and he wasn't gonna make 'em.

In such a situation the appropriate response is, "I like you, but I don't want to get sucked into the situation you've created for yourself. When you are in a position to offer a public partnership, give me a call. But no more sneaking around to avoid social censure which disproportionately falls on the woman."

You're far more likely to meet someone suitable through a mutual interest, so it's better to start going to sports clubs, gyms, cultural groups, etc. etc.

Having said that, Mr Zaichik and I met because we were working together. We were also both unhappily married to other people. I wouldn't say that I'd recommend that the author date married guys, but for me an affair turned into the love of my life and we've been together for nearly 7 years. His ex is happily remarried and has recently had twins, so there's ultimately been a good outcome for her as well. I don't know how my ex is these days, but I'd have left him sooner or later - it pretty much went wrong on day 1 and I spent 2.5 years trying unsuccessfully to make it work.

So there we are - a real-life home-wrecker on JT :-) But if I was starting from scratch with the dating thing, I'd want to avoid the married men too.

Amazing... So, are there single men and women in Japan older than the age of 16? It seems like everyone get married immediately - is this true?

love reading posts like this. seems women always hammer men for wanting sex (obviously a married man dating is not looking for a bridge partner), yet the ultimatum for the girl is no ring, no relationship. just as much an antithesis of relationship. whatever happened to just being real and enjoying today for today? social movement brings social success... enjoying the company of someone married or not increases the odds of meeting mr/mrs right because it enlarges your social circle and help you become more skilled at interpersonal relationships with the opposite sex. at the same time one would think that the average person would understand that finding someone on the net is a low odds deal at best. anyone that passes hundreds of people a day yet needs to initiate relationship virtually....cant say that I have never done so, enjoyed it as well but I never complained when things didnt work out ....

Betzee

who was married to a wealthy Japanese lesbian

What a great line. Maybe I'll try it out and see if women will overlook my married state.

I love reading posts like this too. It gives me a broader knowledge about dating & relationship. Thanks! I've been dating a wonderful gaijin man for some years now, and it had never occurred to me that many people out there have so much problems with relationship or getting a date. I'll tell him how lucky I am..:)

But again, I also worked hard to keep this relationship going, as it's a very tough competition when the surrounding consists of the J women who would do anything to get a gaijin man..especially a caucasian man...

Women date like they are order sandwiches. I want a tall, wealthy, and kind man, with a bit of passion and flamboyance... hold the ego.

She states she is, 'a bit older and with a built-in family.' So is that 40 or 50? Any of the 'good' guys in this age group can still pick up a 30 year old.

This is of course nonsense. First off, what is wrong with affairs? As ms zaichik shows, it could be and often enough the gate to real happiness. Even if you never marry the person, it could be the gateway to real happiness. As another couple of people showed, they may be in relationships with extenuating circumstances, (lesbian/ disabled etc. but doesn't have to be so extreme) and looking for their happiness. They could be just the people who could give you what you need.

But, if you want real love, you have to learn that it is not hand holding, tingly feelings and kind words. It is pain. You have to be able to accept risk and pain for the sake of the other person, and for no profit for yourself, in order to find real love. That includes being serious abut a prostitute who may have diseases (or any non-prostitue who may have diseases), a wealthy older man who may have children, and any other number of possibilities. I don't mean you should get yourself all scarred up by giving your all to any abusive or selfish partner who you meet, with no strength and no sense of self. But you should be willing to take the risk to get all scarred up for that special person you want to be with. Otherwise they aren't special, they are just convienient, and you are selfish.

The easiest concrete example I can think of is the stray cat I leave food out for on my balcony. Of course, I am a monster weighing easily 50x the cat's weight, and I am standing less than 1/2 m (less than 2 ft) away. I imagine I have the power to crush the cat with one hand, but it doesn't back down from me, it hisses and and glares and swats with claws and never runs away. (It even does this when I am giving it food!) It does this because she is a mother and has kittens nearby, and she is going to protect them no matter how big a monster comes. She is right there, inches away, I could kill her, but she has a look in her eye to defeat any k-1 ring fighter. It's easy to understand that risk when it's your own children, but you have to have about that much courage when you are choosing a mate, especially one you think you might want to make children with. That is what true love is. Anybody can hold my hand and tell me I'm handsome or kiss me on the cheek. What will they do when the cards are down? And what will I do? Are you really not the type to run when a monster 50x your size is staring you down?

The woman writing this article doesn't seem to be interested in love, but in an image. Marriage, happiness according to what society says is happiness and truth according to society, not deep truth from her own soul. I don't know whether she will find it on the internet or not, but I must admit she is consistent. She knows what she wants and keeps searching for it. But I tend to doubt the image will turn out to be real happiness in the end. Will she become the lonely dissatisfied house wife getting turned down by a younger naive "serious" marriage-minded guy?

Methinks it worthwhile to learn to live like the cat, and be able to put my whole body and life into each minute and each difficulty that confronts me. Maybe if I do so I can be worthy of true love.

tshirt: Women date like they are order sandwiches. I want a tall, wealthy, and kind man, with a bit of passion and flamboyance... hold the ego.

That's not a very nice statement to make. Not all women are the same. I for one am not.

She is green out of the gate, typical person that has never set foot outside of their country and thinks the rest of the world all runs the same as their country and upbringing . I had the same issue when I first came to Japan, all you know is different in another country, don't apply your ideals, morals and judgment of characters to Japan, they don't fit. She probably doesn't understand Japanese either, I found once I knew Japanese I could really understand the culture.

Here is all the mistakes she made

"In America..." - Don't compare your country to Japan, you can't say "it works in America so it has to work in another country" if it works in America you can't assume it will work here, or anywhere for that matter.

Using "Craigslist Tokyo, Gaijinpot, Flirtbox, etc." - she should have done more research, no one uses Craigslist in Japan, I bet you would be extremely hard pressed to find ANYONE Japanese that even knows of the site. She might as well just handed out flyers.

Her description of herself, "available, dedicated, petite, professional, outgoing and American" - Petite and outgoing in the same sentence in Japan means, I'm shy but I like to meet people for sex. You need to use the words "serious relationship", it might sound over the top in America but this isn't America.

I might be hard in my comments but I think that someone that obviously bl aims the country and the culture and not herself (and then writes an article about it) should wake up and take a look in the mirror. For someone in a research role I can't believe how green she is.

What a great line. Maybe I'll try it out and see if women will overlook my married state.

If it was only a line, it would have been funny. Incredulously, it was in fact true. The wife lived with another woman and the husband pursued his pleasures in the house her father's money had bought them. She'd realized he, as a clueless gaijin, was suitable for her and he probably liked living the high life. Their son was a honeymoon baby and thereafter they had simply acted as a couple when decorum required it. Yep, my friend sure knew had to pick 'em. I doubt she would remember his name today, but at the time life wasn't worth living it they couldn't be together.

Anybody can hold my hand and tell me I'm handsome or kiss me on the cheek. What will they do when the cards are down? And what will I do?

You'll reach out for someone in your family.

Hey JT, how about some "life in Japan" articles from some people that, um, live in Japan?

And for the writer... Tokyo has a pretty active bar scene. Enjoy it (and ditch the laptop dating.)

hakujinsensei: seems women always hammer men for wanting sex (obviously a married man dating is not looking for a bridge partner)

Does not mean he is looking for sex only either though. But it is a motive. But for me, sex is more than "Ugh.....Get out!", and that is the image I have of saying men only want sex. The ones like that are selfish and small minded. Sex with me is pretty full service.

yet the ultimatum for the girl is no ring, no relationship.

Marriage is not the only relationship out there. You can have plenty of relationship with a married person. You can even get a ring from them! You just don't have a right to expect or even ask for a marriage. You should not even hint about it. In fact, you should always encourage the continuation of their marriage.

But judging by the rest of your post, maybe you were just echoing the common litanies rather than your own opinion?

whatever happened to just being real and enjoying today for today?

This is just as important as keeping your eye on tomorrow. You cannot swap one for the other and expect to be fulfilled. I think you realized that, but I just thought I would make it clear.

In fact, you should always encourage the continuation of their marriage.

To do that, sometimes you really need to bow out of the picture. The relief you feel after it's over and no more subterfuge is necessary will get you on your feet and out into society, meeting new people who didn't know you during "the involvement," the word I use instead of "relationship" when one, or possibly both parties, are married.

I don't fall easily for men, but I fall fast and it's important to know when it's time to pick yourself up and move on.

She obviously is 'desperate' but we all don't have to be mean to her. We should offer her ways to get out of that lonely life.

(I’m petite, professional, outgoing and AMERICAN. It shouldn’t be that hard, right?)

This is a very arrogant statement. No doubt. But if we all start giving her the support she needs, who knows she would change along the line...if not, I guess she'll end up 'dating' at her computer for the rest of her life....:)

Betzee said

my friend sure knew had to pick 'em. I doubt she would remember his name today, but at the time life wasn't worth living it they couldn't be together.

Anybody can hold my hand and tell me I'm handsome or kiss me on the cheek. What will they do when the cards are down? And what will I do?

You'll reach out for someone in your family.

I don't know what that means. The point is, either in a science fiction sense of a 300ft monster roaming about or a real disaster or some personal other difficulty are you ready to make the hard choices needed to solve the situation, do what's necessary to get the other party to face hard facts, etc. and stick it out, or are you going to do what others think is "right" so you can prove you are a "good" person by saying nothing but nice things, and make a laughable charade of "love"or furthermore, run with your tail between your legs and make a lie of "love".

Family in this kind of situation is not usually helpful. For one thing they are most often the "confirmers" of a false image of "goodness/rightness" and therefore unrelated to anything real in a situation. For another as a self-respecting adult I want to take care of myself, and anyone depending on me, not whine to mommy and daddy.

Successful date/marriage doesn't mean long-term reliable companionship which calls for sacrifice, tolerance, cyclic attraction & repulsion, blame & forgiveness - relationships like life is not a bed of roses.

this article in a nutshell? j guys think western girls are an exotic fling, much like japanese girls think of western guys and vice versa. it's not always the case, but unless you are aware of the fact don't be surprised to keep finding this

likeitis-thanks for tuning me up. just didnt want to write a deep treatise on the nature of temporal or trial relationships before committing to a life partner.

just tired of all these girls slamming men for wanting to have their cake n eat it too when the average woman has just as many strings attached, just of a different color. not echoing anyones opinion, just expressing a thought that though the person writing the article, though they tried to create the image of maturity, was either naive or childish.

as for me I married a couple years ago after finding a reasonably balanced girl that could have an adult relationship. wish she was a little better at housework but you cant have everything ; )

I agree, sex for just sexes sake is shallow. a movie n dinner make desert all that much nicer ; ) and a real conversation? that would be icing on the cake.

what exactly is full service sex to you?

what exactly is full service sex to you?

Unfortunately less that what used to be! I am getting old.

I would love to answer the question, but it will have to wait. Its too off topic.

just tired of all these girls slamming men for wanting to have their cake n eat it too when the average woman has just as many strings attached, just of a different color.

Amen to that. That is how Anne came off in the first 2/3 of the article.

to all those children looking after their parents,however old or young, i salute you, to all those currently lying their moral authority away(and thinking its cool) in the furtherence of erotic adventure..you are the physical embodiment of the word pathetic. dishonesty is the gateway to misery(as i am certain you have discovered)

I have a very familiar story on my own, I had met a nice, handsome & adequate Japanese - Korean man. We had all the chemistry b/w us. Later some kind girls told me he is married (matched marriage-which is awful itself)and has 2 childreen. I was glad I didn't go to bed with him. Otherwise it would be a real tragedy for me, cause I hate the idea of cheating and being used blindly. He told me he didn't live with a wife,he told me he wasn't a family devoted man, but on my question why did you still married? - he answered - Oh! I couldn't leave my childreen!!! Simple as that... I am thankful to him really, he taught me a good lesson-never trust a men, indeed. Thanks Jong.

Dating in Tokyo is pretty easy—if you’re not looking for a single guy

It is easy. It's complicated when kids are involved, or so I've heard. Other than that, no one seems to care. Was that helpful

I can't tell you how many frustrated Western women I met over the years in Tokyo. Western guys ignore them because they're chasing (or being chased by) Japanese women. So these Western chicks try their luck with Japanese guys, only to end up frustrated, lonely and unhappy because they're typically immature, meek and dysfunctional. I know one woman who's been in that state for over twenty years. Unfortunately, Japan is the last place you'll find Mr. Right, Anne, but you'll get some good stories from trying!

Asiabytes is right about the frustrated gaijin women. I've had more Canadian women (english teachers) chat me up on the trains. It's kinda funny. Ah, to be single again...

whatever happened to just being real and enjoying today for today?

This view of life reminded me of a childhood experience when I stumbled across a guy groping his girlfriend in a park. Both were clearly enjoying themselves and there was no embarrassment when they noticed a little girl with big blue eyes starring up at them. The guy simply looked down at me and said, “Hey, if it feels good do it, right?” I wandered on, feeling I had learned something about the adult world.

They were young, unencumbered by responsibility and only faced the prospect of a public indecency charge if it went further. But the situation of posters here is different. Hakujinsensei has claimed in other posts that his wife is on maternity leave and he’s the father of five. Yet he has time for online dating. But, hey, he doesn’t complain if it doesn’t work out. Now, who prey tell would he complain to? His mother? His wife and kiddies? Perhaps if he spent more time nurturing those relationships he wouldn't need to seek online companionship.

You can have plenty of relationship with a married person. You can even get a ring from them! You just don't have a right to expect or even ask for a marriage. You should not even hint about it.

Huh? I would reevaluate any personal situation where I lacked "the right" to bring up any topic. I'm a little surprised at you here likeitis....

Anybody can hold my hand and tell me I'm handsome or kiss me on the cheek. What will they do when the cards are down? And what will I do?

In fact this is precisely the question a woman pursuing an affair with a married man needs to ask. He most likely won’t be available when the chips are down for her. His family, not just wife and kids but elderly parents and even in-laws, have first dibs on his services in that regard. Your problems are likely to elicit, "What's a pretty girl doing all alone in this situation?" from passersby.

You did identify a problem here that Anne seems blissfully unaware of, namely that by a certain age everyone “on the market” has accumulated a bit of baggage, some a few steamer trunks worth. (Someone with no experience with the opposite sex might need the sturdiest porter of all.)

But attachments are different from baggage, a distinction which you fudged. So I’m puzzled as to why you interfered with your disabled spouse’s efforts to “find a friend” in Singapore? Who were you protecting? According to your logic, there is no victim here since the unsuspecting girl should have been cognizant of the possibility her virtual suitor was engaging in misrepresentation. Not to mention, your wife is entitled to get her jollies anyway she can.

Anne, despite her obvious naivete, got one thing right: Live and learn.

Anyone having the same problem as me? The words on the left side of the posts are cut off.

ca1ic0cat: Canadian women chat me up on the trains. It's kinda funny.

Not all gaijin women would chat you up just because they are desperate. Some just want to be friends. Get over your male ego please!

likeitis; nice answer, rare time when someone here was honest. waiting for the answer when it is on topic ; ) that age thing...

finally, good luck anne! for the record, your best bet for an UNMARRIED, obedient, loving, japanese stallion is to look young. find you a nice guy with a muza-kon who is a kumuin.

Huh? I would reevaluate any personal situation where I lacked "the right" to bring up any topic. I'm a little surprised at you here likeitis....

I do not know why you would be surprised. The relationship where you have the right to bring up any topic would be something other than an extra-marital affair. An extra-marital affair must have rules and boundaries set from the start. This is different from other relationships where you can make the rules as you go.

I am always mindful of my partner's future. My former mistress is now married, and I am very happy for her. I cannot say if I prolonged her state of being single, or contributed to her current state of an apparently happy marriage, but I like to think its the latter. I also like to think it was an at least somewhat fulfilling time in her life.

But if she started asking me if we were going to get married, I would have laid the law down instantly. It was not part of the deal, and such musings will lead to trouble, not only in her mind but mine as well, and it could have spilled over into my wife's mind . Which is why I say it should not be brought up.

Perhaps if he spent more time nurturing those relationships he wouldn't need to seek online companionship.

Actually, I think its offline companionship he is searching for. And if you still think that nurturing other relationships is the cure to the male desire for infidelity, I think you should think again. The average male mind is not wired that way. I think they are already pushing their limits and their current level of faithfulness should be praised, rather than attempt to bend them further to the female will.

Its not only my own mind that makes me think this way, but centuries of recorded male behavior. Females nurture relationships because it is more pleasure than work for them, in general, to do so. For men, its more work than pleasure.

And there simply is no easy replacement to the ABSOLUTE JOY we experience with a new lover, with the possible exception of being victorious in bloody battle, and I do not mean the little joy of sports, I mean bloody battle. I don't think both of those can be kept from men, so please choose.

I can't tell you how many frustrated Western women I met over the years in Tokyo. Western guys ignore them because they're chasing (or being chased by) Japanese women.

Actually, Western guys ignore them because Western women automatically assume Western guys are chasing Japanese women, so the Western women start off with attitude. Lost the attitude and see what happens.

kirakira25

On this subject....does anyone actually have some good advice on how to meet good men in Tokyo??! Mum is coming over for two months at the end of March. She is beautiful, blonde, blue-eyed, petite, oh, and 61.

Ok i don't mean to be rude but i think at 61 your mum is gonna have a lot of trouble finding smo here.I do believe japanese men and even foreigners living here care a lot about age .

I am a 25 y/o gaijin female myself and it was hell finding a decent man to date .

I will say I appreciate your total honesty, likeitis, as opposed to the self-serving justifications of some other posters. Yet you conceded misrepresentation is usually part of the game initially, and it can be justified on the grounds, well, "men are like this." But women aren't. Perhaps that's why airrunwesker nipped in the bud his own wife's efforts to replicate his online antics. kirakira, tmarie....

You sound like you like the attention.

I do and life would have been a lot duller without it. I especially enjoy watching my Dad squirm when I am identified by other men as his girlfriend rather than his daughter. He's kind of a square guy so I know some of those types exist.

Anyway, all of this reminds me of the exchange Thelma and Louise are having in the car as they, unbeknownst to them, drive away from the lives they know into the unknown. Thelma is asking Louise why she just doesn't dump the boyfriend who can't commit and Louise shoots back "why don't you ditch that no-good husband of yours?" She then reflects, "You get what you settle for." Hmmm, true.

I will say I appreciate your total honesty, likeitis

And I appreciate your appreciation of that. Such honesty often reaps bitter denial. Glad to see someone keeping their sense.

well, "men are like this." But women aren't.

We have to make adjustments for one another. This is one of the hardest things to compromise on. The best I have seen is when the man keeps his infidelity to a bare minimum, hides it as much as humanly possible, appreciates the freedom and directs that appreciation toward his wife, and meanwhile the woman entertains the fantasy of fidelity sometimes quite willfully, but enjoys a steady relationship and does not need to worry about being dumped for another woman.

About that last one, anyone who leaves their marriage only for another deserves a bit slap upside the head IMHO. The only reason to leave a marriage is because your partner is not fulfilling their obligations. Marriage is a partnership, first and foremost.

Everyone has their mate some where. Please, keep looking ...

Everyone has their mate some where. Please, keep looking ..

That would sure be a heck of a lot easier if those who've already mated weren't crowding the field. I guess that was Ms. Weinberg's point. I doubt she will find him going about it online; but she may be able to write up her encounters as a cross-cultural romance comedy and make some money. "Money can't buy me love," but it can sure get ya a whole lot of other things.

Everyone has their mate some where.

...And some people have someone else's mate everywhere.

likeitis -- I have read your sanctimoneous postings for the last couple of days on this topic, and not replied. But, enough is enough. You are nothing but a player who cannot emotionally handle fidelity, at least on your own part, who happened to get lucky enough to land in a country where women are raised to expect a lack of faithfulness from their men. Please don't paint yourself as some kind of hero because you are open with your wife as well as your mistresses. In any other country, you'd have lost 50% of your assets, and would be paying your ex alimony, plus her attorney's fees. That's how many places define "partnership". Just thank your lucky stars Japan doesn't.

I am always mindful of my partner's future.

For a woman to buy into this type of benign paternalism is extremely unwise. While the a married man may genuinely care about you, he cannot be there for you. One of the joys of partnership comes from the security of knowing the one person will be there for you.

Plus, the break-up tends to be curt because it wasn't like a real relationship and ya knew that, right? If the married man initiates it, the woman may stalk him or members of his family. (Who cam forget Fatal Attraction.)

If the woman initiates it, the man likely needs you in his life to make some sort of intolerable home-life bearable. And once he's got you he's unwilling to let you go without a scene. The era of the long-term mistress is over, most woman are sucked in after they've been knocked down. But we all inevitably get up and move on....

People get the spouses they deserve based on their values, behavior, and expectations. If you have a "list" and things like wealth and beauty are high on that list, then you deserve whatever unfulfilling, shallow relationships you get. Ultimately, money doesn't make people happy and beauty fades. Most men realize this more slowly than women, and the foreign men on the prowl in Japan even more slowly than others. Foreign women usually know better, but they also sometimes pay more attention to the appeal in their mates' faces and bodies than to the quality of their companionship. I've met few foreign women who have married Japanese men who are really satisfied with their relationships in the long run.

Every person in an unhappy relationship has made choices that have lead to their situation. If you end up with losers and cheaters, you have no one to blame but yourself as you prioritized the wrong things when you made your choice.

I think men tend to prioritize looks, in part because having a good looking female partner confers status from other men. Women, by contrast, tend to want someone on his way up in the world because he will garner respect from other women. In your 20s it may not be obvious that looks fade and people lose their jobs.

When I studied in Taiwan I do recall tons of Western guys with Taiwanese girlfriends who were physically more attractive than the men who had definitely traded up in the looks department. Yet many of these couples had major communication problems and the women typically had expectations the men would not be able to meet, leading to a lifetime of resentment percolating below the surface. No thanks to that....

As for likeitis's assertion "An extra-marital affair must have rules and boundaries set from the start" I don't think this is possible which is perhaps why such liasons have the potential to turn volatile.

People arrange their lives within societal norms. Precisely because an extra-marital affair is not sanctioned by society there are no norms to guide it. Moreover, matters of the heart are not subject to arbitrary rules.

People fall in and out of love but all too rarely in sync, and this is the source of much heartache.

You are nothing but a player who cannot emotionally handle fidelity,

Uh...okay.

a country where women are raised to expect a lack of faithfulness from their men.

On the contrary. I think its others who were raised to expect something that is pretty unrealistic. And those expectations have made the infidelity scene quite chaotic and messy.

In any other country, you'd have lost 50% of your assets, and would be paying your ex alimony, plus her attorney's fees.

Case in point of how it gets messy. Yes, you seem to know the drill well. Why? Because it happens so often where you come from, that is why. Why so often? Not accepting reality, but rather reaching too far for pie in the sky, and falling off the ladder, that's why.

Now you might want to ponder the idea that most of the infidelity I saw growing up was quite poorly handled. Accidental pregnancies, drunken one night stands that led to STDs, and my favorite, a man finding his wife had been sleeping with his own father! Then you have the simple fact that I grew up without a father thanks to this much too high expectation of perfect fidelity, which can be found merely by smug snubs about someone's emotional capacity such as you have directed at me.

Until reality is accepted and methods devised to accommodate it, the messy beat will go on and on I'm afraid. At least the lawyers will get richer.

Just thank your lucky stars Japan doesn't.

This is one of the many reasons I do thank my lucky stars I live in Japan.

Orchid64,

I don't think Western women with Asian men are comparable in many ways to Asian women with Western men. First of all, there are a lot more of the latter "on the prowl" as you put it. Many no doubt have little difficulty finding female companionship. They don't have to learn much of the local language, and one thing I've come to appreciate, though I'm not sure exactly why, is that most bi-cultural couples converse in the male's native tongue.

By contrast, the number of single Western females in Asia is far smaller. I can understand why Ms. Weinberg advertises herself as "petite." That would not rule out physical attraction for a Japanese man. Taller women are going to find few Japanese men who can match them in height, unless you want to head up to Manchukuo and try your luck with the natives.

Plus, women are going to have to learn some of the language, at least enough hold their own at the dinner table when his family invites you over. So the type of Western woman who gets involved with an Asian male is probably better educated and was drawn to the man for reasons beyond simply lust.

There are some advantages as well. Western women with Asian men do not elicit a nationalistic response. The locals are often curious but genial: "Does she understand what we're saying?" "Well, if if flattering to her, yes. Otherwise, no." The truth was, I was much more interested in anything negative anyone had to say. But it was always the same, "Very tall."

I'm afraid one of the reasons for the high divorce rate is there's little to keep these marriages together when the couple hits a rough spot. The families probably say, "Told you so." Whereas there's societal support for keeping families together when people choose marriage partners from within their own, particularly when there are young children involved.

Now in cultures where it's acceptable to fool around, it may be people are less choosy when settling on a partner for life. But from my perspective, most people I Know are so happy when they've forged a connection with another person that infidelity doesn't really enter into it. That lifestyle of serial philandry is totally alien to me, and I intend for it to remain so!

Too desperate lady! Ease off and you will be ok. Keep this mindless internet soul searching up and what you have been getting is what you will get!

Dating is never so easy!