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Does virus crisis stoke case for united Ireland?

22 Comments
By Joe STENSON

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C’mon Joe, why would the ROI with low infections,wish to deal with the UK’s mismanagement that has led to an explosion of cases?

Any unity won’t come in these dire times...

3 ( +5 / -2 )

It’s possible I don’t have Irish blood but I would like to see a united nation again..just be flexible about it.

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talaraedokkoToday 09:07 am JSTIt’s possible I don’t have Irish blood but I would like to see a united nation again..just be flexible about it.

I have Irish, German, French, Swiss, Blackfoot ancestry so just as I was glad to see Germany united and free 30 years ago, it's to accomplish what Sir Paul said.

'Give Ireland Back To the Irish'.

0 ( +3 / -3 )

Give Ireland Back To the Irish

If that is what the majority of people in Northern Ireland want, yes.

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@Jimizo

Exactly. And the fact is that the majority want to remain British. People forget that the reason that it is not part of the Republic of Ireland is because a substantial group of people did not want to live in a society ruled by the Catholic church. Until recently every aspect of life, including education and health care, was completely under the sway of that most repressive and undemocratic institution. I never understand why people think that because it's all one land mass there shouldn't be any border there. You may as well say that they should abolish the border between France and Germany for the same reason. All this talk about 'freeing' people is just ignorant and romantic nonsense. It's a bit like telling people in Manchester or Bristol that you're chucking them out of the UK because you want to free them from tyranny.

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Exactly. And the fact is that the majority want to remain British.

I don’t know about that. The polls I’ve seen are very tight.

I honestly don’t particularly care if NI stays in the union or not, but the process must be democratic. I’ve heard one suggestion that the decision should be made by the people of Ireland as a whole - in other words drown out the votes of the people in NI who want to remain. This is undemocratic. Ask the same people if the future of Kong Kong should be decided by the people of China as a whole rather than the citizens of HK and see what happens.

No easy way forward here. My prediction is a referendum within the next decade.

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And the fact is that the majority want to remain British.

That's not as certain as it was back in the 1920s when Ulster voted to remain in the UK. The demographics are changing. This Irish Times poll taken last year gives a slight majority (46-45) to reunification. Of course how people might vote if it was actually put to them in a referendum could be different.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/slight-majority-for-unification-in-northern-ireland-poll-1.4015170

You may as well say that they should abolish the border between France and Germany for the same reason.

Not the same thing at all. There's a massively greater cultural and historical divide between France and Germany than there is between Ulster and the Republic of Ireland. Even with the religious divisions. And like Jimizo, I think it's up to the inhabitants of the North to say whether they want to stay in the UK or join the Republic, to be decided properly and democratically by referendum.

-1 ( +1 / -2 )

Northern Ireland like Scotland voted to remain the EU.

Times are changing and we are nearer to a united Ireland than any time in the past. What happens when the majority of people in Northern Ireland are the Irish catholics.

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What happens when the majority of people in Northern Ireland are the Irish catholics.

That's a bit of an ugly question. Some of us are looking forward to a time when people have dropped religion altogether.

(And then I remember the old joke... "But are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist?")

0 ( +2 / -2 )

In Ireland and Northern Ireland religion will remain a force for many more decades to come.

In Liverpool, I have an aunt who's from an Irish family and catholic. She's been happily married to a protestant from Northern Ireland for decades.

They bth go to separate churches on a Sunday.

It works for them.

1 ( +3 / -2 )

@BigYen

I would say that the protestants in N.I Ireland have more in common with people in Scotland in terms of language and culture - that's why many Americans are always going on about being 'Scotch-Irish' as they come from a different background than all those people drinking green Guinness on St Patrick's Day.

I accept that the demographics are changing and wonder what will happen when protestants are in the minority.

It's a bit misleading to talk about catholic and protestant these days anyway, as almost nobody goes to church of any kind. On the one hand you have the catholic church famed for fascist support during the Spanish Civil War and WW2, or more recently their cover up of paedophile priests. On the other hand you have the grim life-denying presbyterianism which keeps parties like the DUP in power. The IRA were for the most part very anti-clerical and not exactly loved by the catholic church.

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I would say that the protestants in N.I Ireland have more in common with people in Scotland in terms of language and culture

Perhaps more accurate to say they have more in common with protestants in central Scotland. We see the same divisions here in Scotland still - it can be ugly. But I like to think that the vast majority, both in Scotland and Northern Ireland, wish it would go away.

Here's a humorous historical account (contains strong language):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XETd9nSNAe8

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

Its sad when Religion can split Friends and Families. And Northern Ireland (Ulster) is one place this happens all too often.

When the UK was part of Europe, the unity issue was less in fous, though now with Brexit, it's back to the forefront, and who knows where its all going to end up.

For those who've lived there, or even spent some time there, you'll know that the place is lovely, and the people generally more friendly than elsewhere in the World, the weather, well... Ireland is Green for a reason. There's so much potential for its future, but now... even prior to the virus, Jobs were being lost, and Crime groups becoming more bold - slowly its slipping back to times past, which will get no one anywhere.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

@albaleo - both sides have their Music! Infact, the emotion in Irish music from both sides is Fantastic, possibly unbeaten elsewhere within the World! The only danger is, when you're not from the Community holding the event, it can be a bit daunting (just as your video suggested).

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History in NI is a big thing.... you only have to look at the yearly Marching season

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIGEJ7q7M8c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgpl8dJl6Nc

And the nasty side of the rivalry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pRVrdaCosk

On a slightly more humours note.... The whole situation is a bit like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohDB5gbtaEQ

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Sid Exactly. And the fact is that the majority want to remain British. People forget that the reason that it is not part of the Republic of Ireland is because a substantial group of people did not want to live in a society ruled by the Catholic church.

It's not exactly a religious issue in NI. they have a terrorist security act that says they can arrest and detain anyone suspected of 'terror' activity. There is the IRA and there are 'Loyalist' battalions that cause havoc in the name of Protestantism. the situation there is more political than religious. The UK knows that and there's a lot of Northern Irish in the midst that are sick of the violence, period.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

In the six occupied counties that the british refer to as "Northern Ireland" those who want to remain in the UK are the ancesters of people who were planted there two hundred years ago by the British. They are not and never were "Northern Irish". They are British who stole the land and various privileges over the indigenious Irish people. They do not want to give up that land ownership and other privileges, so they want to stay in the UK. It is absurd to compare them with people from Hong Kong. The reason the IRA agreed to a peace process is thet there has to be joint referendums on both sides of the (Invisible-fake) border at the same time, and the outcome will determine if Ireland wil be united. The British have been afraid to agree to have that joint referendum and since Brexit the commercial polling surveys have indicated a majority in favour of Irish unity.

-3 ( +0 / -3 )

Ireland will be re-unified but I don't think it will happen for a generation or 2. The wounds are still very raw on both sides and those who are most true to their cause, either side of the line, are still very capable of strong resistance.

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@Paul

At least get your history right, Paul. Yes, the British did colonise Ireland, but 450 years ago. Colonialism is wrong, but there comes a point when it's absurd to view it in that way. By the same token the US should be governed by Native Americans. The rights of indigenous people and the wrongs against them should be recognised, but you can't return to how things were and ignore those who've lived somewhere for centuries. I think you'll find that poverty amongst protestants in N. Ireland is just as bad as for the catholic community.

0 ( +1 / -1 )

It is time , the world get togather without the usa. Corona Virus made us understand the minimum, no one is in power except the Virus.

0 ( +0 / -0 )

Well Mr "Sid" - YOU - should get your facts right. You are a typical British Nationalist/Unionist, who prefers to attack a commentator rather than put rational argument. In FACT here is the historical order. The English and Normans combined invaded Ireland in 1170, that is 850 years ago. The ethnic cleansing of Ireland by the English referred to as "the plantation of Ireland" (especially in six of the the nine northern counties of Ulster) took place between 1609 and 1690 when the lands of the Irish nobility were stolen and granted to Scottish and English settlers (who sub-devided land to Irish so much and took control of the rivers, lakes and coastal areas that the Irish only had patatoes to live on). When the Irish continued to fight British occupation, Britain sent over Adolf Hitlers predecessor called Oliver Cromwell who massacred tens of thousands of people. But the irish sill would not accept British rule, so they decided to change the laws. In 1801 they introduced Penal Laws which basically outlawed everything Irish: The Catholic religion; The Irish language. Irish speaking Catholics were barred from the professions and emerging guilds/trades unions. The population in 1801 was ( million plus, in 1901 it was less that 4 million. Those who didn't perish from the potato famine brought on by the imposed dependency on potato growing resulting in either starvation or emigration.

And BTW Whats wrong with the Native American people running the USA anyway? All indigenous peoples have a right to self determination. Its the empire obsessions of countries like Britain that have , in one way or another, led to many if not most of the chronic problems in this world. So - Down with Empires. I salute the indigenous peoples of this world.

-2 ( +0 / -2 )

Correction to typo-error above.

Towards bottom where it has (

It should have been 9.

Meaning "9 Million plus".

-1 ( +0 / -1 )

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